Quran and Gospels

[Dave2]

This doesn't mean anything because the dates used by Jews correspond to HEBREW dates not dates "anno domino." You can find anything you want in the Tanakh. Even who will win the world series and of course the Bible Codes in the Torah.
In any case, it is only Esau who acts with vile violence, not Jacob. "Esau was a hunter, and Jacob was a pure man, who remained in his tents".
You continue to ignore the factual and historical issues related to the Zionist heretical movement of Amalek. I can't help anymore.

[Peter]

This doesn't mean anything because the dates used by Jews correspond to HEBREW dates not dates "anno domino."

However search as you did, you were unable to explain what a "time" was, by your books and commentaries.
The key to those problems was given to us in the first century, when the Gospel was written, under the Julian calendar (which is effectively the same as the solar calendar over the span of 2500 years). Thus the solutions were achieved using the same calendar, as the apostle who gave us the key used.

And until the dates of 1948 and 1967 had passed, nobody could have seen the solutions to those problems. That's no surprise. The book of Daniel was sealed until the "time of the end":

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This was followed up with a crystal clear statement of fact:

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

And what a perfect method of sealing it was! No men can be credited with opening it, but rather simply the passage of time!

You can find anything you want in the Tanakh. Even who will win the world series and of course the Bible Codes in the Torah.

But as you can see this wasn't some sort of a contrived "bible code", but two specific problems that scripture assigned to us, that worked out in perfect parallel over 2500 years, both mathematically and textually.

In any case, it is only Esau who acts with vile violence, not Jacob. "Esau was a hunter, and Jacob was a pure man, who remained in his tents".
You continue to ignore the factual and historical issues related to the Zionist heretical movement of Amalek.

But these problems would suggest that God is a Zionist as prophesied by Daniel, and as you previously indicated the vast majority of Jews are Zionists too, that happen to have a different understanding of your scriptures.

I can't help anymore.

It is you that has your head stuck in the sand regarding the Islamic conquest of Israel, and your support for anti-Zionist Muslims that are out to kill and subjugate both faithful and unfaithful Jews, Christians and non-Muslims of all stripes, not only in Israel but all around the world. With over 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks, just since 9-11 as meticulously logged by the folks are http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/. Just as they have since Muhammad did 1400 years ago.

[Dave2]

Cut out the paranoia, for once and for all. G-d is not a Zionist. Zionism is an ideology developed by atheistic scum like Theodor Herzl. It has nothing whatever to do with the principles of the Torah. And leave the Muslims alone. How would you feel if your country was repeatedly bombed to smitherines and surrounded by aircraft carriers and tactical nuclear weapons? If these came into the Caribbean the US airforce would bomb the hell out of them in a minute. But when all these forces are all over the Middle East starting from colonized Palestine to the Persian Gulf, you expect those people just to stay home and play penucle all day?? Come on, give me a break.

[Peter]

Cut out the paranoia, for once and for all.

The physical matter of fact of 1400 years of Islamic conquest has nothing to do with a state of mind, but what 1.5 billion people - 1/4 of mankind - are called to do by the false prophet Muhammad. And every true follower of Muhammad obeys him, and do what they can to be like him.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Quran Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

http://www.petewaldo.com/jihad.htm

And leave the Muslims alone. How would you feel if your country was repeatedly bombed to smitherines and surrounded by aircraft carriers and tactical nuclear weapons?

I refuse to believe that someone in your position could be that ignorant regarding the 1400 year history of Islamic imperialistic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims.

But why did you change the subject and not answer to the prior post on why the use of the Julian calendar, and the seal on the book of Daniel?

[Peter]

G-d is not a Zionist.

Genesis 15:18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

[Peter]

Zionism is an ideology developed by atheistic scum like Theodor Herzl.

Do you think your inability to control your name calling, and hatred expressed of persons, would help folks to conclude that you are a faithful Jew?

[Peter]

It has nothing whatever to do with the principles of the Torah.

But as you've already admitted, the vast number of Jews disagree with you on this.
I even showed you stunning fulfillment of bible prophecy in their return to Zion, but the hatred you express seems to trump all.

And leave the Muslims alone. How would you feel if your country was repeatedly bombed to smitherines and surrounded by aircraft carriers and tactical nuclear weapons? If these came into the Caribbean the US airforce would bomb the hell out of them in a minute. But when all these forces are all over the Middle East starting from colonized Palestine to the Persian Gulf, you expect those people just to stay home and play penucle all day??

Don't be silly. It's their job to terrorize and slay non-Muslims, just as their prophet did, and called his followers to do. One of the most consummate terrorists in the history of mankind.

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Come on, give me a break.

I refuse to believe that someone in your position could be that ignorant regarding the 1400 year history of Islamic imperialistic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims.

But why did you change the subject and not answer to the prior post on the use of the Julian calendar, and the seal on the book of Daniel?

[Dave2]

Shall I start quoting things from other religions describing some of their feelings that have no relevance? Don't be paranoid. I don't feel the slightest discomfort from Muslims. It's the United States with 300 bases worldwide and 2000 nuclear warheads. They all together have zero. What should worry me more? The fact that the Zionist State has 230 nuclear warheads to shoot at Europe and has not signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty, or Iran that has ZERO nuclear warheads aimed at anyone has who HAVE signed the Non-Prolfieration Treaty??

[Peter]

Shall I start quoting things from other religions describing some of their feelings that have no relevance? Don't be paranoid. I don't feel the slightest discomfort from Muslims.

That's a meaningless anecdote, simply indicating that you probably live in the U.S. or Australia, or another less than 2% Muslim country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEXWjlgJ83E
While most Muslims don't engage in conquest, they must be approve those that are doing the heavy lifting of jihad, or they will be ostracized by their community. That's why so few speak out against Islamic violence.
Do you think that someone that is out to conquer and subjugate you would announce it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEXWjlgJ83E
You must live in the U.S.
It's a far different thing for those that have to live in or near Muslim ghettos where Muslims are gaining power.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2968.0

It's the United States with 300 bases worldwide and 2000 nuclear warheads.

I don't intend to get into a peeing contest regarding secular nation-states, but the only country the U.S has nuked - that killed so many Asians and Americans - was Japan, and it ended a conflict that would have killed millions more on both sides.
And the Japanese have thrived on the constitution we then assigned it, which in my opinion, was a good sight better then them being compelled to worship their leader Hirohito as a god. As a faithful Jew you might agree while a secular Jew probably wouldn't care.
Here's a picture of Hiroshima and Nagasaki today:

They all together have zero. What should worry me more? The fact that the Zionist State has 230 nuclear warheads to shoot at Europe and has not signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty, ......

That's because they are too honest. Unlike Russia, for example, who signed the same but continued proliferating. And unlike Muslims that will sign anything, planning full well on violating it immediately, like they did in Gaza for example. But of course that's because their prophet encourages them to.

...If you ever take an oath to do something and later on you find that something else is better, then you should expiate your oath and do what is better."
Sahih Bukhari 9:89:260

Israel is not like their Islamic neighbors, who engage in, and break, agreement after agreement, while fully intending to break them when they enter the agreements.

...... or Iran that has ZERO nuclear warheads aimed at anyone has who HAVE signed the Non-Prolfieration Treaty??

Thank you for that. I hadn't read it until I finished my prior replies. What you did was confirm, as did Yassar Arafat, what a ridiculous notion it is to engage in agreements with folks whose prophet tells them it's no problem to expiate an oath if something better comes along.
Like I said, the Israelis are too honest to declare an oath that they are uncertain they can keep. The Islamists will declare any kind of oath that will get them any kind of short term advantage they can glean from it, without ever intending to keep it in the first place.

I have asked this a few times. Where do you live Dave?

[Peter]

Why not reply to this post that you ignored?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3194.msg13504#msg13504
You see Dave, you couldn't tell me what a "time" is because your books and commentaries are silent on the subject, and and that's because Daniel's book was sealed until the "time of the end", and the last seal wasn't lifted until 1967. With just the 1948 problem, folks determined to cling to their tradition, might have been able to justify it to themselves as a freaky coincidence.

Yet I showed you two stunning math problems that were assigned to believers through Daniel, that work in perfect parallel over the span of 2500 years, to pin the restoration of the Jews to their land in 1948 and city in 1967, in stunning fulfillment even textually, since the scattered strength of Jews ended as the book of Daniel was unsealed! Not by the hand of man, but by the simple passage of time. Nobody can be credited with unsealing it, but God Himself.

Yet the best you can do is ignore it and turn away - without reason - because then you might have to reconcile that you are supposed to love Jews that live in Israel rather than hate them.
You stand there in the light of the math, clutching your traditions and crying "This doesn't mean anything because the dates used by Jews correspond to HEBREW dates not dates "anno domino.""
Just like a Christian might cry "But the tradition I was taught says it's 3-1/2 years, not 2500 years, that can't be what it means...." even though the only thing wrong with the exegesis of the time times problems is their false tradition.
Missing the stunning fulfillment of the prophecy all around. Indeed proof of God.
Though nothing new under the sun.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

I'd encourage you to pray about it Dave, but not in some repetitive habit or tradition, but really ask God Himself - with an open heart and a contrite spirit - to share with you what He thinks.

[Dave2]

How ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. You base your pet theories on numbers that work out according to Anno Domino which has absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish calendar according to which everything in Jewish history operated. For your information 1967 was really 5727.
But everything we discuss is not even a discussion. Whatever I have introduced to this Board has gone in one ear and out the other.

[resistingrexmundi]

You can use any calender and it works. It is still 2500 years between the 3rd year of Cyrus' reign and the restoration. If you don't believe it tell us what year on your calender Cyrus' reign started.

[Peter]

How ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. You base your pet theories on numbers that work out according to Anno Domino which has absolutely nothing to do with the Jewish calendar according to which everything in Jewish history operated. For your information 1967 was really 5727.
But everything we discuss is not even a discussion. Whatever I have introduced to this Board has gone in one ear and out the other.

Talk about in one ear and out the other. You admitted that Judaism has kept you blind and clueless as to what a "time" is. You admitted that NOWHERE under your Jewish calendar, in your books, commentaries or on the tongues of your Rabbis is a "time" defined. That is of course because it wasn't UNTIL the term was defined during the new covenant era, under the Julian calendar, that the problem could be solved. Seems you hate truth almost as much as you hate your own brethren in Israel.
Have you asked God for a new heart? Have you been born again?

Jeremiah 31:30. Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will form a covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, a new covenant. 31. Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, that they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, says the Lord. 32. For this is the covenant that I will form with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will place My law in their midst and I will inscribe it upon their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be My people. 33. And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or [shall] one [teach] his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember.

Yet because of your false doctrine you even join Nazis, skinheads, Aryans, David Duke and the KKK, Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam, and Muhammad's followers, in their hatred of the vast majority of your own Zionist brethren, and you don't even seem to care. Indeed you seem to be perfectly comfortable in that company. At least you certainly haven't suggested otherwise.
You help advance the Islamic conquest of Israel, to convert it into another female circumcising, child doing, wife beating, concubine keeping, Christian beheading, Islamic terror, slave state, while you sit back all comfy in the U.S. and cheer it on from across an ocean.

Here's something else from the new covenant:

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[Peter]

Sorry, I don't know what to make of what you are discussing. All I can go on is what I see in Hebrew, Aramaic and the commentaries. Speaking of New Testament, and you may want to carry this over to a different thread, how is it  that the great John the Baptist, Mary, virgin birth, Bethlehem, Nazareth, Capernaum, Pilate, Golgotha, Sermon on the Mount and other things are never hinted at even once in the epistles attributed to Paul??

How is it that in Romans 15 Paul doesn't want to move into territory where "the gospel" was already known when in Galatians he informs his readers that it is HE who has the exclusive gospel truth?

And how is it possible when he refers to apostles who were believed to have known the man Jesus he never expresses even the slightest awe and reverence for them at all with praise for having seen and walked with the man Jesus??

As per your suggestion we begin to explore your questions on a different thread here:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3238.0

[Dave2]

That is true chutzpa. There you go claiming to know something of the Book of Daniel when you cannot even read Hebrew or Aramaic, and probably not Greek or Latin either. It's incredible. How do you know what is false doctrine? Don't you even read your own teachings from Matthew 23:2 for heaven's sake where "Jesus" gives a compliment to the "evil Pharisees"??

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat."

[Peter]

That is true chutzpa. There you go claiming to know something of the Book of Daniel when you cannot even read Hebrew or Aramaic, and probably not Greek or Latin either. It's incredible.

My Aramaic may be restricted to interlinears and Strong's and such, but it seems like it might perhaps be a little more honest then some of your scholars.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=615.msg2406#msg2406

[Dave2]

Bar-Elohin does not refer to what you think it does, i.e. someone born to a virgin mother by the "holy spirit." It is an expression of the speaker's astonishment at looking at the fourth person who LOOKS LIKE an angel (he is NOT an angel, but looks like one). Sorry, again.

[Peter]

It's incredible. How do you know what is false doctrine?

One way is by the fruit, Dave, and when a person's doctrine has them running with Nazis, skinheads, Aryans, David Duke and the KKK, Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam, and supporting the false prophet Muhammad's followers conquest of Jews and Christians in Israel, the fruit makes it abundantly clear that they are walking in false doctrine. Add to that, that by your own admission, the vast amount of your own Jewish brethren, would agree would condemn your anti-Zionist doctrine, helps complete the picture.

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[Peter]

Don't you even read your own teachings from Matthew 23:2 for heaven's sake where "Jesus" gives a compliment to the "evil Pharisees"??

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat."

Maybe you should try reading that passage.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.

That's a real compliment isn't it. Do as they say when they read from Moses' seat, but don't do as they do. They place burdens on others that they are not willing to accept themselves. Parading around like little emperors with no clothes.
 
Maybe Jesus is speaking to you in the next one, and the anti-Zionist tree you fruit, along with Jew hating serpent seed doctrine holders that put on a pretense of religiosity:

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit. 34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Why? Same reason you have displayed repeatedly:

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

[Dave2]

So now you want to divert away from the main issue into an incomprehensible interpretation of that portion of Matthew. Of course there could be different kinds of Pharisees, and it says so in the Talmud itself. However, he here we are talking about the teachers of the Law, thank you. And the Book of Daniel is in Hebrew and Aramaic and all the commentaries are also in Hebrew going way back.
While you are thinking about this, remember your own Matthew 5:18:

 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

[Peter]

So now you want to divert away from the main issue into an incomprehensible interpretation of that portion of Matthew. Of course there could be different kinds of Pharisees, and it says so in the Talmud itself.

I agree that there may have been faithful Jews among the Pharisees, though some that hold anti-Zionist Christian replacement theology insist that the Koine Greek term "generation" used is literal, as if by "generation of vipers" Jesus would be condemning men by the happenstance of their time of birth, rather than the condition of their hearts. I believe the metaphorical use is meant, being a group of men that share the same character.

However, he here we are talking about the teachers of the Law, thank you. And the Book of Daniel is in Hebrew and Aramaic and all the commentaries are also in Hebrew going way back.

Yet in all that you remained blind to what a "time" is, so it took the new covenant book of 2Peter to unseal the book of Daniel for us all.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3194.msg13499#msg13499

While you are thinking about this, remember your own Matthew 5:18:

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

So then you follow the law Dave, or the traditions of men? Which law? Kinda tough without a temple isn't it? Do you live in Israel? The law that joins you at the hip with Nazis and skinheads?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_law

[Dave2]

What laws did Adam and Eve, Noah, the Patriarchs observe before the giving of the Torah?? They received all their teachings ORALLY without anything written down. This continued to be the situation at Sinai and thereafter. Only a part of the Torah was put into written form. The rest of the Torah and its principles of exegesis were handed down ORALLY just as before. After all, both you and Karaites would know that it is impossible to know from the Torah how to circumcise correctly or how to slaughter meat correctly to make it kosher. These are part of the ORALLY transmitted teachings from the Almighty to Our Teacher Moshe, and from him to the great Joshua, the Elders, the Judges, the Prophets, the Sanhedrins, the Tannaim and Amoraim of the Talmud.

It is all so simple that it must be above your head, Peter. No disrespect intended, but sometimes I cannot take the stiffneckedness of people when they are pretending to engage in rational discussion.

Just remember what "Paul" said about keeping the Law. I guess I would have more in common with the author of Romans than you:

"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
Romans 2.13.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."
Romans 3.31.

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
Romans 7.12.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets." – Acts 24.14.

But of course he couldn't get it straight, or else Romans was combined with different messages:

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin ... Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." – Romans 3:20,28

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." – Romans 7.6.

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." – Romans 10.4.

You engage in all types of sophistry to explain why things are not stated in the epistles, because it is self-explanatory, and now you will engage in more sophistry to explain why the contradictions in Romans are not contradictions at all.

[resistingrexmundi]

So now you want to divert away from the main issue into an incomprehensible interpretation of that portion of Matthew. Of course there could be different kinds of Pharisees, and it says so in the Talmud itself. However, he here we are talking about the teachers of the Law, thank you. And the Book of Daniel is in Hebrew and Aramaic and all the commentaries are also in Hebrew going way back.
While you are thinking about this, remember your own Matthew 5:18:

 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Yep. And it will not. But your own oral law contradicts such a sentiment.

Said Rab Judah in Samuel's name: [It means] that they encompassed it with arguments2  as a snake, and proved it unclean. It has been taught: On that day R. Eliezer brought forward every imaginable argument,3  but they did not accept them. Said he to them: 'If the halachah agrees with me, let this carob-tree prove it!' Thereupon the carob-tree was torn a hundred cubits out of its place — others affirm, four hundred cubits. 'No proof can be brought from a carob-tree,' they retorted. Again he said to them: 'If the halachah agrees with me, let the stream of water prove it!' Whereupon the stream of water flowed backwards — 'No proof can be brought from a stream of water,' they rejoined. Again he urged: 'If the halachah agrees with me, let the walls of the schoolhouse prove it,' whereupon the walls inclined to fall. But R. Joshua rebuked them, saying: 'When scholars are engaged in a halachic dispute, what have ye to interfere?' Hence they did not fall, in honour of R. Joshua, nor did they resume the upright, in honour of R. Eliezer; and they are still standing thus inclined. Again he said to them: 'If the halachah agrees with me, let it be proved from Heaven!' Whereupon a Heavenly Voice cried out: 'Why do ye dispute with R. Eliezer, seeing that in all matters the halachah agrees with him!' But R. Joshua arose and exclaimed: 'It is not in heaven.'4  What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice, because Thou hast long since written in the Torah at Mount Sinai, After the majority must one incline.5

This purposely wrenches Exodus 23:2 out of its' meaning. Specifically voiding it to make a point that essentially says even God weighing in on a matter will not dissuade the Jewish leaders from their decision.

[Dave2]

Personally I think it is perfectly arrogant of someone who knows nothing of Judaism to pretend to determine anything about the principles of the oral law, in this case or any other.  The Torah is authorized to establish rabbinical courts to apply the oral law and methodology of exegesis. Rabbi Eliezer purposely did this test to enshrine the importance of determination of law through rabbinical judges and not through one's subjective spiritual powers,  no matter how great.

[resistingrexmundi]

Read the account again. Rabbi Eliezer asked God to intervene to decide whether halachah agreed with him. It was the other Rabbi's that enshrined their oral law over God's direct word by wrenching Exodus 23:2 out of its' specific meaning.

Exd 23:2    "You shall not follow [fn]the masses in doing evil, nor shall you [fn]testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after [fn]a multitude in order to pervert justice;

The last line they say, "we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice, because Thou hast long since written in the Torah at Mount Sinai, After the majority must one incline.5"

It specifically says the opposite. This is a direct negation of the Word of God to put up a tradition.