The State of Israel and why it is God's will

[resistingrexmundi]

They are not all gone. But do I have to give you a history lesson? The Jews of Iraq, mostly in Baghdad were frightened by Zionist operatives who planted bombs in synagogues and offered bribes to Iraqi officials to give everyone visas. Check the book by Naim Giladi. The Jews of Algeria remained in Algeria until 1962 when most left for France. Same thing for Moroccan Jews in 1967. Libyan Jews, who were not too many left Libya after the war during independence, and most Egyptian Jews remained in Egypt until 1956. Gosh, what were all those Jews doing in those places among those "evil" Ayrabs?!
And no, I do not believe in Mohammed or the Quran because I am not a Muslim, just like I do not believe in the New Testament because I am not a Christian, and do not believe in the Bhagavad Gita because I am not a Hindu.

That is incredibly naive to think that the account of this one author would have more weight than the countless testimonies of hundreds of thousands of Jews who sought protection and safety from those Arab countries. It is easy to sit in judgment when you are sitting in front of your computer thousands of miles away. But I wonder if you would feel so warm and fuzzy about the Islamic countries if you lived somewhere in which you only had an average of 13-15 seconds to seek refuge before impending bombardment. Or where you had to accept second class citizenship and pay a special tax for not being muslim. You can sugar coat the history of the Jewish people in Islamic lands if you wish but it doesn't change historical facts.

[Peter]

And no, I do not believe in Mohammed or the Quran because I am not a Muslim, just like I do not believe in the New Testament because I am not a Christian.....

While Muslims believe they are born Muslims, you have the order backwards in regard to Christians. A person believes, repents, and is born again, and thereby becomes a Christian. Like so many Jews have ever since the first century and unto today, who were, and are, willing to be tortured and die terrible martyrs deaths, for the testimony of Yeshua. Between 100,000 and 200,000 Christians are martyred, every year, in the world today. Jews that recognize that Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of their Messiah, and ushered in the new covenant, that was prophesied in the old covenant.

Isaiah 53:1. Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed? 2. And he came up like a sapling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him? 3. Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account. 4. Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed. 5. But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed. 6. We all went astray like sheep, we have turned, each one on his way, and the Lord accepted his prayers for the iniquity of all of us. 7. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth. 8. From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them. 9. And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death, because he committed no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. 10. And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand. 11. From the toil of his soul he would see, he would be satisfied; with his knowledge My servant would vindicate the just for many, and their iniquities he would bear. 12. Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.

It's easy to understand why your resistance to the Gospel is nearly as great as the Muhammadans. While you aren't killed by your own family or community for coming to know the love of God through a relationship with the Messiah - as Muhammad's followers are - don't Jews ostracize converts to Christianity, and even throw a funeral for them while they are still alive?

The reason the temple was torn down - every stone, just as Jesus prophesied - and Yahweh has prevented Jews from proselytizing folks into Judaism ever since, is to illuminate the new covenant path to Him through His Messiah, Yeshua (which name perhaps you can confirm means to rescue or deliver). Yeshua's people are the temple of God today.

The waxing away of the old covenant path is evidenced by only .02% of the world's population today being Jewish. However you distinguish yourself as being separated even further, by claiming to be only a tiny fraction of that .02%, suggesting that Yahweh granted you an exclusive franchise on truth, even as you spew venom against your brethren while finding comfort in the arms of Jew hating anti-Zionist Nazis, Aryans, skinheads, David Duke and the KKK, Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam, the Soviets, and Muhammad's followers that you aid in their conquest of Israel, and slaughter and subjugation of Jews and Christians there. Anti-Zionists striving to turn Israel into another sharia law ruled, female circumcising, multiple wife beating, child doing, concubine keeping, imperialistic Islamic terror slave state. Yet you don't seem to be able to see anything wrong with that.

I've done what I was called to do for you my friend, but primarily for the benefit of other oddly anti-Zionist Jews that may review our chat in the future, that are honest enough with themselves to wonder just why it is they are fruit of the same anti-Zionist tree as those groups listed in the prior paragraph. The rest is between you and your Messiah.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEA3mBCFcus
http://www.youtube.com/user/jfjweb/videos

[resistingrexmundi]

Also I would ask you to please answer the original questions posed that you have studiously avoided.

The scriptures claim that God would restore the Jewish people in their disobedience for His Name's sake and I also ask who other than Yahweh could regather them?

[Dave2]

The Jews are not ingathered and there is no Temple.  Almost two thirds of the Jewish people live outside the Zionist "fatherland" and "paradise". When the prophecies are fulfilled you and I will both know it with the rest of the world.

[resistingrexmundi]

The Jews are not ingathered and there is no Temple.  Almost two thirds of the Jewish people live outside the Zionist "fatherland" and "paradise". When the prophecies are fulfilled you and I will both know it with the rest of the world.

Oh so all those Jews there were not gathered? You do realize that if the Jews are regathered in their disobedience it is unlikely the Temple will be rebuilt by disobedient Jews and also unlikely that it would mean every single Jew in the world would be there right off the bat. You are laboring under some false doctrines that stand contrary to what God has said.

[Dave2]

I cannot deal with this extent of ignorance and arrogance. You do not know what you are talking about. You don't know the prophets, you don't know the teachings of our sages and you don't know Hebrew or Aramaic. There is no point to discuss this matter unless you are prepared to understand where Judaism is coming from.
The ingathering of the Exiles will occur in the future upon the arrival of the true Messiah. This did not happen with the NT Jesus and it did not happen with the false messiah Shabtai Zvi or other false messiahs.

[resistingrexmundi]

I cannot deal with this extent of ignorance and arrogance. You do not know what you are talking about. You don't know the prophets, you don't know the teachings of our sages and you don't know Hebrew or Aramaic. There is no point to discuss this matter unless you are prepared to understand where Judaism is coming from.
The ingathering of the Exiles will occur in the future upon the arrival of the true Messiah. This did not happen with the NT Jesus and it did not happen with the false messiah Shabtai Zvi or other false messiahs.

You accuse us of arrogance and ignorance and yet you purposely avoid answering questions and change the subject when things get a little too close to home for you. I ask you what other Jew has brought more gentiles to knowledge of Yahweh?

[Dave2]

First of all we do not use that sacred name in any discourse. We only refer to HASHEM. But for names, you might try Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses for starters.

[resistingrexmundi]

First of all we do not use that sacred name in any discourse. We only refer to HASHEM. But for names, you might try Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses for starters.

I am aware that Orthodox Jews do not utter or write the Divine Name of Yahweh. But He is my Father and it is the Name that He gave for those who follow Him to use. So try answering the question instead of obfuscating.

[Peter]

So the board is working again. Anyway the State of Israel is not the fulfillment of the prophets.  It was established by atheists who were sinful people before G-d who wanted to destroy the integrity of Judaism and the Jewish people with their sinful violent state. But were are told that the strength and power of the hand is the way of Esau not Jacob. The Zionists created Sodom and Gomorrah in Tel Aviv and are responsible for the deaths of untold numbers of Jews and Arabs.
AND the Zionists will never have peace as it is written : No peace says my G-d to the wicked.
Eyn shalom amar Elokai leReshaim! !

So are you always prone to ignoring points? As I said God alone is able to regather the Jewish people. Furthermore, you speak in monolithic terms as if the only one's responsible for the return are atheists.

This is no return!  To live there and commit all the sins is precisely why we were exiled in the first place. The Zionists were and are wretched Amalekites.
They have brainwashed millions of people with the evil disobedience of G-d.

Poor Dave, making the word of God of none effect through the empty tradition of those he places in a position of authority over him - just as the Pharisees that Jesus castigated did - but those men Dave puts in authority over him even cause him to deny the historical reality of Jesus ever even having existed, that a man in the first century that claimed He was the Messiah never existed. Marching well beyond the reason of most of his Jewish brethren.

Resisting, perhaps you didn't include enough context in your original post. And maybe a little emphasis will help, and perhaps quoting the Tanach:

Ezekiel 36:17. "Son of man! The house of Israel, as long as they lived on their own land, they defiled it by their way and by their misdeeds, like the uncleanness of a woman in the period of her separation was their way before Me.
18. Wherefore I poured My wrath upon them for the blood that they had shed in the land, because they had defiled it with their idols.
19. And I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries. According to their way and their misdeeds did I judge them.
20. And they entered the nations where they came, and they profaned My Holy Name, inasmuch as it was said of them, 'These are the people of the Lord, and they have come out of His land.'
21. But I had pity on My Holy Name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations to which they had come.
22. Therefore, say to the house of Israel; So says the Lord God: Not for your sake do I do this, O house of Israel, but for My Holy Name, which you have profaned among the nations to which they have come.
23. And I will sanctify My great Name, which was profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord-is the declaration of the Lord God-when I will be sanctified through you before their eyes.

From this miracle even some heathen have seen what Dave has been made blind to.

24. For I will take you from among the nations and gather you from all the countries, and I will bring you to your land.

And AFTER that?

25. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will be clean; from all your impurities and from all your abominations will I cleanse you.
26. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
27. And I will put My spirit within you and bring it about that you will walk in My statutes and you will keep My ordinances and do [them].
28. Then will you dwell in the land that I gave your fathers, and you will be a people to Me, and I will be to you as a God.

Poor Dave, missing God's blessings all around. He's stuck in his little cult while even admitting that the vast majority of his Jewish brethren recognize the restoration of God's people to their land. The reason perhaps being, that rather than depending on the empty words of the men Dave puts in authority over him, they simply rely on the scriptures that God gave us that prophesy the restoration of God's people to their land, in so many places.

Yet in spite of the stunning historical reality, Dave is stuck having to believe that it is some sort of a weird and terrible accident! Perhaps some sort of a trick against God, even though the reason God performed this miracle, is for the sake of His name. Perhaps Dave believes the prophecies of the restoration in the scriptures refer to some other restoration of God's covenant people to their covenant land.

[Dave2]

What restoration? With the highest abortion rates, Mafias,  gay rights and nothing but violence and desecration of that we hold sacred? We were thrown out for far less. Don't you see what's going on? Some restoration! Desecrating G-d's name! The miserable Zionist state is a wicked antinomian heresy!!

[Peter]

Your arrogance about thousands of years of Judaism that your Christianity claims to fulfill is laughable. Every generation of Jews had judges and courts and Sanhedrins. Then come along people like you who says, "Na, it's all unnecessary. Just let every individual on his own figure out what it says and do whatever he wants from the written word by itself."

But that's just what the men in your tiny little cult, that you put in authority over you, did. You insist, on their behalf, that God was wrong for not wanting His name to continue to be profaned among the nations.

That's why you hate the majority of your Jewish brethren, and join Jew hating anti-Zionist Nazis, Muslims, skinheads, Soviets and the KKK in the Islamic conquest of Jews and Christians in Israel.
Here are some of your anti-Zionist friends that enjoy your support.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rl0rZObP-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc8ZvVCaar4

Yet you remain blind to the miracle that even a heathen can see.
Stop spamming the forum with double posting (even included the half bracket in your copy and paste).
The post that I quoted from here went to spam, as the remainder of it is a duplicate of what was already answered here:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3238.msg13728#msg13728

[Peter]

What restoration? With the highest abortion rates, Mafias,  gay rights and nothing but violence and desecration of that we hold sacred?

As has been pointed out to you previously in less direct terms, you are a racist bigot that lumps faithful Israeli Jews in with atheists and agnostics, just like your Nazi, skinhead, Muslim and KKK Jew hating anti-Zionist racist partners do. A false accuser just as is prophesied for our times.

Do you really think that a unanimity of Jewish mankind - fallen from birth - will magically come to God when the exact opposite has been happening, particularly through the Islamic conquest of Israel that you support? Do you really think a secular Jew would have an easier time coming to know God while scattered among the gentile nations, or while in the company of lots of other faithful Jews in Israel? Are you awaiting the day when all Jews will magically join your little cult, even as Satan's anti-Zionist minions are responsible for the conquest and subjugation of God's people in Israel, to Muhammad's black stone idol prostrating followers?

We were thrown out for far less. Don't you see what's going on? Some restoration! Desecrating G-d's name!

It is you that demands that God's name continue to be profaned through your scripture void posts. It is you that lies against God, according to the scriptures which proclaim His purpose in restoring His people to their covenant land to be the exact opposite, of your false accusation. It is you who is making demands of God against His purpose, as if He should continue desire to have His name profaned among the nations, because the men you put in authority over you disagree with Him. It's one thing to lie against God accidentally, but quite another to lie against Him in full knowledge.

Ezekiel 36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These [are] the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.   21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.   22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. {their: or, your}   24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.   25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you...

Even a blind man can see the miracle of a people remaining a cohesive group while being scattered among the nations for over 2500 years, and then being restored to their covenant land

The miserable Zionist state is a wicked antinomian heresy!!

Perhaps to a scripture-ignorant Jew who walks in the traditions of men. But not according to God and His stated purpose in the scriptures.

[Dave2]

All you do is speak in abstractions and cannot even apply what you think you believe in to actual events on the ground as I have described them. Life is more than vain abstractions.