Need Help - In Discussion with Muslim

[ExMilitary]

Should I just give him/her a link to the general forum, or can you please suggest a link to a post that I can pass on to him/her?

Here is our discussion so far:

Trust in God, but tie your camel. -Prophet Muhammad (Sallahu Alayhi Wa Salam)

Muhammad is a liar and antichrist - Sura 4:157, Sura 4:171 (1 John 2:22-23)

You are no better than the Jews who denied Christ as a messenger of God. We shall see on judgement day.
At least we Muslims respect and love Jesus and recognize him as the Al-Masih (The Messiah).

It appears you don't know much, if anything about the Islamic religion other than evangelical Christian propaganda. I bet next you're going to tell me the Vatican invented Islam.

Sura 4:48 Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son

It isn't difficult. No need for Christian propaganda. The Koran and the Bible speak for themselves.

Muhammad denied the son. He who denies the son, denies the father... calling God a liar.

Muhammad calls God a liar.

The Prophet Muhammad SAW warning of the Anti-Messiah:

Allah's Apostle stood up amongst the people and then praised and glorified Allah as He deserved and then he mentioned Ad-Dajjal, saying, "I warn you of him, and there was no prophet but warned his followers of him; but I will tell you something about him which no prophet has told his followers: Ad-Dajjal is one-eyed whereas Allah is not."

Jesus warned of antichrist centuries prior... Muhammad is a textbook definition of antichrist.

Wrong.

Muhammad never denied Jesus as the Al-Masih. What you're pushing is a trinitarian hoax. Jesus never taught the trinity, nor did Jesus ever claim he was God. Jesus said, "The Father is Greater than I"

Why didn't he say "I am the father"?

Matthew 16:21, Matthew 17:21-23, Matthew 20:17-19, Mark 8:21, Mark 9:9, Mark 10:23... and on and on. Look, Muhammad can't have it both ways. Either Jesus was a prophet, or he was a liar.

Point 1: If Jesus was a prophet, then he died and rose again, which makes the Koran a lie. If the Koran is a lie, then so is Muhammad.

Point 2: If Jesus was a liar, then Muhammad wasn't annointed because he said Jesus was a prophet. If Muhammad wasn't annointed, then neither is the Koran.

Point 3: If you say that the men who wrote the Bible lied, then you must reject all early manuscript evidence (many manuscripts in different languages, not just Greek) regarding Jesus, because ALL early manuscripts attest to HIS OWN WORDS about dying. If you reject all written accounts, then you have nothing to stand on except blind faith in the word of one man... who performed zero miracles, who healed no one, who killed many, who had many failed "prophecies".

Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM."

[PeteWaldo]

I hope your taking the gloves off to that extent reflects your having been engaged in a lengthy and heated conversation that has been going on for a long time. I have been guilty of the same, but we should be doing everything in our power to offer a kind approach, with the effort at simply getting them to read the Gospel.
Like maybe begin with something like "Did you know Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel?"

Many will tell you they have read the Gospel, or give you the impression they have, when they haven't.
You can explain that by rejecting the hundreds of verses that regard the Son of God and God His Father he is only confirming that Islam is the exact opposite of that revealed through the scriptures, with links that list those verses:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm
Guide him to the foot of the cross as early as you can:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm
And that forum section:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=43.0
Pointing out to him that Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel:
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
http://www.petewaldo.com/
His only recourse will be their only fall back which is to say the Gospel was "corrupted" (to become the exact opposite of its whole subject!)
Then you can tell him he is calling "Allah" foolish because centuries after the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, copied perhaps a hundred thousand times, and had been read all over the whole known world for centuries Muhammad proclaimed:
Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
As well as several more such confirmations of the veracity of the scriptures detailed here.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/
Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.
You can also copy and paste some more hard hitting verses on the Son of God on your exit. Just added them to the bottom of the post at this thread:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=158.0

[ExMilitary]

I hope your taking the gloves off to that extent reflects your having been engaged in a lengthy and heated conversation that has been going on for a long time. I have been guilty of the same, but we should be doing everything in our power to offer a kind approach, with the effort at simply getting them to read the Gospel.
Like maybe begin with something like "Did you know Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel?"

I forget to put my gloves on... often.  I'm usually very direct, and have a difficult time alluding to fact rather than just laying it out.  I've been told, many times, that I am just too "in your face" or "intimidating". I went ahead and (more or less) apologized for being so direct.  After taking your advice and saying what you've quoted above, I've offered to show them the truth if they are really willing to listen.  If the respond, I will begin posting some of your recommended links.

[PeteWaldo]

I hope your taking the gloves off to that extent reflects your having been engaged in a lengthy and heated conversation that has been going on for a long time. I have been guilty of the same, but we should be doing everything in our power to offer a kind approach, with the effort at simply getting them to read the Gospel.
Like maybe begin with something like "Did you know Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel?"

I forget to put my gloves on... often.  I'm usually very direct, and have a difficult time alluding to fact rather than just laying it out.  I've been told, many times, that I am just too "in your face" or "intimidating". I went ahead and (more or less) apologized for being so direct.

I believe they will take your repentant attitude very much to heart, and it will give them an opportunity to begin to see what a Christian's heart is all about. Though they will likely drag you back into the ring. The spirit of antichrist is a powerful thing.
Are you in a Muslim forum? If so I am surprised you haven't already been kicked out. I've been able to log in some days before being kicked out, but only by walking on eggs, and gently trying to bring the points home. Using an inquisitive approach and turning everything into a question sometimes helps. Like "Is it true that if a Muslim were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus' name, constitutes the only unforgivable sin in Islam, as compared to mass murder or child rape, which may be forgivable?"
After you finally coax a reply to them (very convicting for them) followed up with something like "So then every single Christian over the last 2,000 years has prayed in Jesus name, and thus every Christian has died in a state of committing Muhammad's only unforgivable sin!".
Then maybe "Do you think a just God would really make praying in Jesus' name a sin worse than child rape or cold blooded mass murder?"

Remember that above all, and least arguable for a follower of Muhammad is the cross - the whole subject of the Gospel:

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

You can point out that there is little point in discussing anything else, as long as they remain indoctrinated to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, and REJECT the shed blood that would save them. Ask again if they have ever read the Gospel and give them a link to the Gospel of John. I geared this site specifically for a minimally combattive approach to get them to read the Gospel.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm
You also direct them to the Old Testament prophecy in Psalms 22 at this link:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm

After taking your advice and saying what you've quoted above, I've offered to show them the truth if they are really willing to listen.  If the respond, I will begin posting some of your recommended links.

I'll pray for you.

[Bistabuster]

I find most American Muslims don't even know their own book.  These particular Muslims pick and choose which part of the Quran they want to read.  For the Muslims that believe killing another person is totally wrong simply refuse to read chapter 9.  Chapter 9 orders Muslims through Allah's own words to go and kill anyone who is not Muslim for it clearly teaches Allah HATES the non believers (or non Muslims) and Allah would love to see all of us go to hell. 

What kind of god is that?  Even if I was thinking seriously about following Islam, based on that subject, I wouldn't become one because I know killing is wrong.  I want a God that loves me, unconditionally!  Big word here.  The Bible says God loves us unconditionally.  The Quran says that god will love us if we're Muslims......maybe......or maybe not.  Gee.  I don't know if the Quran god actually loves anybody.  hmmmmmm. 

[Bistabuster]

Are you in a Muslim forum? If so I am surprised you haven't already been kicked out. I've been able to log in some days before being kicked out, but only by walking on eggs, and gently trying to bring the points home. Using an inquisitive approach and turning everything into a question sometimes helps. Like "Is it true that if a Muslim were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus' name, constitutes the only unforgivable sin in Islam, as compared to mass murder or child rape, which may be forgivable?"
After you finally coax a reply to them (very convicting for them) followed up with something like "So then every single Christian over the last 2,000 years has prayed in Jesus name, and thus every Christian has died in a state of committing Muhammad's only unforgivable sin!".

The simple answer to that would be that Muslims are ordered to screen any message that might lead other Muslims to Christ.  Why do you think they forbid the Bible to be distributed in Muslim countries?  Well, the Muslims might read it.  Next, the Muslim will begin to use their brain and start thinking.  Then the Muslims will start questioning the authenticity of their Quran.  Once they start thinking and checking the validity of their Quran, the Muslims will then throw their Quran in the garbage can and read the Bible exclusively.  After that, these Muslims will accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  If this is left unchecked, Islam will forever DIE! 

This is the ONLY reason Islam has survived as long as it has by controlling the minds of the Muslim people and telling them what they want them to know.  Muslim children are not allowed to make their own decision as to whether or not they want to become a Muslim, Christian or nothing at all.  These children are essentially brainwashed into Islam, and because of that, Islam continues to strive!

[PeteWaldo]

I find most American Muslims don't even know their own book.  These particular Muslims pick and choose which part of the Quran they want to read.  For the Muslims that believe killing another person is totally wrong simply refuse to read chapter 9.  Chapter 9 orders Muslims through Allah's own words to go and kill anyone who is not Muslim for it clearly teaches Allah HATES the non believers (or non Muslims) and Allah would love to see all of us go to hell. 

Indeed looks forward to personally torturing non-Muslims himself, in the hell of Muhammad's overactive imagination.

What kind of god is that?

The same kind that would cause his followers to believe that praying in Jesus' name would constitute the only unforgivable sin, as opposed to child rape or cold-blooded mass murder for example, which may be forgiven.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3344.0

Even if I was thinking seriously about following Islam, based on that subject, I wouldn't become one because I know killing is wrong.

Yet it is Muhammad's (the Quraish pagan's)  deity "Allah" aka Satan, that takes personal credit for terrorizing and taking down God's people:

Qur'an 33:26 Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things.
http://www.petewaldo.com/jihad_conquest_terrorism.htm

I want a God that loves me, unconditionally!  Big word here.  The Bible says God loves us unconditionally.

Indeed God IS love.
1 John 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=878.0

The Quran says that god will love us if we're Muslims......maybe......or maybe not.  Gee.  I don't know if the Quran god actually loves anybody.  hmmmmmm.

Why of course he does, and do we have to wonder who?!

Truly allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure. Quran, Chapter #61 As-Saff,, Verse #4
http://www.petewaldo.com/jihad_conquest_terrorism.htm

[PeteWaldo]

Muslim children are not allowed to make their own decision as to whether or not they want to become a Muslim, Christian or nothing at all.  These children are essentially brainwashed into Islam, and because of that, Islam continues to strive!

An eye opening youtube search on the subject is - islam indoctrination of children
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islam+indoctrination+of+children&oq=islam+indoctrination+of+children&gs_l=youtube.3...30.2724.0.2948.18.9.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.