What Time is it?

[PeteWaldo]

By Ellis Skolfield
http://www.ellisskolfield.net/essays

First: The beginning of “the Time of the End” should be determined by Scripture, not by me.
 
Luke 21:24 states: “And they (contextually the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
 
That is a biblical given, but what does "trodden down of the Gentiles" mean? Governmental control not necessarily ethnic purity. When you look at the pre-Christian historic record, when a conquer defeated another kingdom, the first thing the new potentate did was make the defeated monarch bow down before him and the new King would place his foot on the deposed king’s neck. Thus the term, "trodden down." There are ample pictorial records all over the Middle East showing this practice.
 
Jerusalem was freed of Gentile governmental control on June 6, 1967, the historic reality we cannot deny, therefore we are no longer in "the time of the Gentiles." So you have to ask, if we're not in the time of the Gentiles what kind of time are we now in? Well, searching prophetic literature from end-to-end, the only other epochal time I could find was Daniels "time of the end." Ergo, we must be in “the Time of the End.”
 
Second: The parable of the fig tree.
 
Matthew 24:32 him him him him -33, “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.”
 
Now the Lord Jesus has not gone to the cross yet so the Old Testament Levitical code is still in force. As a result, we need to look in the Old Testament to find the definition for figurative language in the Gospels. In Jeremiah 24:1-7 and in Hosea 9:10 we find Israel figuratively identified as a fig tree.
 
Hosea 9:10 “I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as t he firstripe in the fig tree at her first time.”
 
Then as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem for the final time, he said the following . . .
 
Mark 11:13-14, 11:21-22 “And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he (Jesus) came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves. And Jesus answered and said unto it, ‘No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever.’ And his disciples heard it. . . . And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.  And Peter . . . saith unto him, ‘Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.’ And Jesus answering saith unto them, ‘Have faith in God.’”
 
Now do you believe Jesus was worried about figs, or could He be He implying, have faith in God and you too, can curse a fig tree? Of course not, that fig tree is being used as a figurative example of Israel. Jesus knows He is going to the Cross and that the Christian era will begin shortly thereafter. As a result, the Jewish faith will not grow beyond the Jewish people, but the church will cover the whole Earth. Nevertheless, have faith in God for the people with whom He made an everlasting,.
 
Matthew 24:32-33 “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves (not spiritual fruit), ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.”
 
Luke 21:31-32 “So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation (of the fig tree putting forth leaves, i.e., the new nation of Israel being established in 1948) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.” (that’s everything, including the return of Jesus).
 
New Israel is the Fig Tree Generation
 
Luke 21:29-33 “And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (the surrounding nations); When they now shoot forth (leaves not spiritual fruit), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation (of the people who were alive and helped Israel become a nation in 1948) shall not pass away (shall still be alive), till all be fulfilled (at the return of Jesus). Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
 
Jesus Warns Today’s Church!
   
Luke 21:34-36 “And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

[PeteWaldo]

Jesus knows He is going to the Cross and that the Christian era will begin shortly thereafter. As a result, the Jewish faith will not grow beyond the Jewish people, but the church will cover the whole Earth.

Interesting to note that prior to the Christian era Judaism was a heavily proselytizing faith. But some Roman leaders made it a more risky business, and even banned it.
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/v09-n10/proselytizers

"The Romans knew that conversion to Judaism meant adherence not merely to a religion but also to a political state; hence, once Judaea was annexed, conversion had dangerous political overtones the Romans could hardly tolerate.…"

"Roman intolerance took two forms, the first of which was simply to expel Jewish people from certain provinces. However the Romans rethought that strategy, inasmuch as they did not necessarily wish to lose the benefits that Jewish people normally bring to society. Rather than expulsion, a more workable strategy was to prohibit Jews from making converts."

It wouldn't be the first time God used His enemies to carry out His will. Today only about 2/10 of 1% of the world's population are Jews. An amazing 42.9% of them live in Israel.



We don't have to wonder what happened to Christian lands by the middle of the 8th century, in the prophet John's "whole world".



I can't support this with scripture, but I have to wonder if one reason God blinded some Jews to the Gospel, was in part, so that they could fight to resurrect and protect Israel via OT style "eye for an eye".

[Ian Liddle]

I like your explanation of the 'Time of the End' and the living parable of the Fig Tree.  The Messianic Jewish teacher Amir Tsarfati explains that the Fig Tree relates specifically to the benefit of a Nation State for Israel, while the Olive Tree represents the Religious benefits of Israel (e.g. the priesthood), and the Vine represents the Spiritual benefits of Israel (and of course Jesus is the True Vine).
I agree that the re-formed Nation State of Israel (from 1948) gives us a "generational marker" for the return of Jesus, and there are many blogs where people discuss the length of a generation.  If we take the "normal" duration of a generation to be the "three score years and ten" given by Psalm 90:10, then the natural conclusion is that Jesus will return by 2018.  Even those people who are unhappy with using Psalm 90:10 in this way must agree, though, that the return of Jesus can not be far away.
We might also note that Jesus will not return in any random year.  It is generally accepted that Jesus will declare a Year of Jubilee when He returns.  Since Jesus said that He did not come to change the Law, but to fulfil it, we must expect Jesus to respect that a Year of Jubilee can only be declared on one special day in every seven years - Yom Kippur in a Shemittah year.  The next time that Yom Kippur occurs in a Shemittah year is on 23rd September 2015, which is not very far off, and the next opportunity after that is several years past 2018.  We need to watch and be ready, keeping ourselves kiddushin for the Bridegroom.  By the way, in case any readers are unfamiliar with the "Feasts of the Lord" (as per Leviticus 23), please note that Yom Kippur is when Jesus descends to the Mount of Olives; it is not when the 'Rapture' takes place, which is at Yom Teruah, also known by the Jewish idiom of the feast "when no one knows the day or the hour".

[Ian Liddle]

Another implication of Ellis Skolfield's "Time of the End" being our current (post-1967) epoch, with which I agree, is how we should interpret Daniel chapter 8, the vision of a Ram and a Goat.
Let's start with Daniel 8:3-4, which states: "Then I lifted my eyes and saw, and there, standing beside the river, was a ram which had two horns, and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last.  I saw the ram pushing westward, northward, and southward, so that no animal could withstand him; nor was there any that could deliver from his hand, but he did according to his will and became great."
Most scholars believe that the Ram equates with the lop-sided bear in Daniel 7:5, referring to the Medo-Persian Empire, a view that is reinforced by Daniel 8:20.
Daniel 8:5-7 continues the vision as follows: "And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole [known] earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.  Then he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing beside the river [Ulai], and ran at him with furious power.  And I saw him confronting the ram; he was moved with rage against him, attacked the ram, and broke his two horns.  There was no power in the ram to withstand him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled him; and there was no one that could deliver the ram from his hand."
Daniel 8:21 explains that the Goat refers to Greece, and most scholars accept that the "notable horn" was Alexander the Great, who made swift conquests.  The Goat would seem to equate with the leopard in Daniel 7:6.
After conquering the Medo-Persian Empire, Alexander the Great died - and Daniel 8:8 states: "...the large horn was broken, and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven."  Scholars note that the Greek Empire split into four parts after the death of Alexander the Great.
One of the four horns (that succeeded Alexander) became great, controlling many lands in the Middle East - including "the Glorious Land" (Daniel 8:9).  Scholars generally accept that this horn refers to Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
But then we run into difficulty.  Not only does this "horn" conquer a large swathe of the Middle East, but it also carries out some profound events in heaven, casting down "some of the host and some of the stars [angels] to the ground" (Daniel 8:10), etc.  And when the angel Gabriel interprets the vision for Daniel, he says, "Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end." (Daniel 8:17).  Verse 19 reinforces this message.  And that is the problem.
Gabriel's explanation of Daniel's vision makes no break between an historical fulfilment of the vision and a separate thing that is to happen in "the time of the end".  Gabriel simply says that this vision of the Ram and the Goat pertains to the time of the end.
Should we infer, then, that the classical interpretation of Daniel 8 is only a foreshadowing of a final fulfilment post-1967?
If the final fulfilment of Daniel's vision is perhaps now and/or yet to come, does the Ram represent Iran exerting its influence "westward, northward and southward"? And then the Goat?  Turkey?
Does Ellis Skolfield have anything to say on this?  Or anyone else?

[ExMilitary]

I've actually been trying to plow through this set of scriptures myself.

Here are a few keys I've noticed:

• In verse 13 we have one saint asking another, how long until the vision of the daily sacrifice and trampling of the host, sanctuary, etc is accomplished.  The following verse says that the reply to this question was directly to Daniel.  So, is the first saint asking the question in verse 13 Daniel referring to himself in 3rd person (similar to the way John refers to himself as the beloved disciple)?  Maybe, and maybe not, but the point is that Daniel and those with him in the vision seem to focus on the outcome of the vision, and how it relates to the time of the end, not necessarily the characters (ram/goat) in the vision.  The characters serve more as reference markers rather than the point of the vision.
• In the bible, stars in heaven can represent several things, but I believe, in this instance, the interpretation is given in verse 24 "the mighty and the holy people"
• Verse 25 "he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand." happens after the division of Greece under 4 generals (leopard with 4 heads from the vision of the 4 beasts in chapter 7), and refers to this one after the division of Greece standing up to the Prince of princes.  This reference, I'm guessing, is speaking of our Lord and Savior, and the empire/ruler that stands up against him (Rome)
• Now, if this 'little horn' is, indeed Rome, then looking at verse 11 seems to make more sense, "Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down."  If we look at the fact that our Lord and Savior was crucified under Rome, then we can see how and why the daily sacrifice was taken away:
  • After the Christ, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin
  • The Jewish temple was destroyed by the same empire
  • There has been no possibility of a physical daily sacrifice, since the destruction of the temple.

If we continue to follow the day/year principle, we should be able to count 2300 years into the future from the 3rd year of the reign of king Belshazzar (verse 1), and arrive at some sort of significant event regarding these things (the tampling under foot of the host, etc).  I haven't found (exactly) what this event is, but if we count 2300 years forward, we arrive somewhere around 1750 (+/- 10 years depending on scholarship).  The closest thing I can find is that 1750 was right around the same time that the Islamic Ottoman empire was officially declared defunct/weak/and nearly dead.  I read somewhere that it was around this time that the idea of returning Jews to Israel really began to pick up in popularity in Europe (as these events are just a couple of hundred years after the reformation)... this would eventually result in the British Mandate, the 1948 declaration, and the 1967 war.

That is where I am thus far.

[PeteWaldo]

Does Ellis Skolfield have anything to say on this?

Did you know you can inquire of all these things with him directly? I think he would like to hear from you bro.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_false_prophet.htm

[Ian Liddle]

Many thanks for the suggestion to ask Ellis Skolfield directly.  It will be interesting to find out what his view is on this.

[Ian Liddle]

Thank you, also, ExMilitary, for your helpful 'keys' to Daniel 8.
I would exercise caution in using the days/years principle in respect of Daniel 8:14, though, because in the original Hebrew the word "days" (yamim) is not actually used here.  The Hebrew text actually says "evenings mornings", and some translators have changed this to "days".  Remembering that the Jews used to have an "evening sacrifice" at the ninth hour and a "morning sacrifice" at the third hour, I have always assumed that the "evenings mornings" referred to the number of occasions when these sacrifices could not be carried out.  Two thousand three hundred lost evening and morning sacrifices would account for 1150 literal days.  I may be wrong in my assumption here but, until I find a better explanation, I am assuming that the time-span is 1150 days, being 3 solar-calendar years plus 55 extra days.

[ExMilitary]

I would exercise caution in using the days/years principle in respect of Daniel 8:14, though, because in the original Hebrew the word "days" (yamim) is not actually used here.  The Hebrew text actually says "evenings mornings", and some translators have changed this to "days".

Right.  The identification of the 2300 'days' is difficult.  I just don't agree with the general preterist position that this little horn was fulfilled in Antiochus E., and that the issue with the taymid had something to do with a pig sacrifice. (This position is also held by many dispensationalists).  You can read about some of the objections in 7th Day Adventist arguments.  Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily agree with the Adventist position, either... but some of their points about Antiochus E. not being the little horn of Daniel 8 seem valid.

One of the things I'm drawing out as I go through this is that I am becoming more and more convinced that the visions in Daniel seem to consistently point to (depending on where in history he is viewing from):

Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece
Rome

ALL with the point of arriving at messiah and his sacrifice.

Luke 27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself... And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures... And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

He specifically mentions "Daniel the prophet" in Matthew 24, and directly ties Daniel's prophec(ies) to the gospel of the kingdom.

[PeteWaldo]

I would exercise caution in using the days/years principle in respect of Daniel 8:14, though, because in the original Hebrew the word "days" (yamim) is not actually used here.  The Hebrew text actually says "evenings mornings", and some translators have changed this to "days".

Right.  The identification of the 2300 'days' is difficult.  I just don't agree with the general preterist position that this little horn was fulfilled in Antiochus E., and that the issue with the taymid had something to do with a pig sacrifice. (This position is also held by many dispensationalists).  You can read about some of the objections in 7th Day Adventist arguments.  Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily agree with the Adventist position, either... but some of their points about Antiochus E. not being the little horn of Daniel 8 seem valid.

One of the things I'm drawing out as I go through this is that I am becoming more and more convinced that the visions in Daniel seem to consistently point to (depending on where in history he is viewing from):

Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece
Rome

ALL with the point of arriving at messiah and his sacrifice.

Luke 27 - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself... And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures... And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

He specifically mentions "Daniel the prophet" in Matthew 24, and directly ties Daniel's prophec(ies) to the gospel of the kingdom.

And in Mark we learn that the AOD can't hardly be a man since it is described as an it that is standing:

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/abomination_of_desolation.htm

Daniel describes it as something that would be set up or placed:

Daniel 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
(Tanach) -  Daniel 12:11 And from the time the daily sacrifice was removed and the silent abomination placed, is one thousand, two hundred, and ninety.

Strong's Greek translated as "stand" http://www.beholdthebeast.com/abomination_of_desolation.htm#stand
1) to give, put, set
1a2) to put, set, put on, put upon, set,.....
1c2) to be put upon

Hebrew translated as "set up" http://www.beholdthebeast.com/abomination_of_desolation.htm#set_up
1) to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
1a2) to place
1b) to make firm, fix establish
1b3) to establish a thing, cause it to stand
2a1a) of the foundation of a building

As far as I know the 2300 days remains a mystery to Ellis, though I haven't read his study guide, but today uploaded his 2014 even more expanded version. You can download it at the new link. Pretty big at nearly 25MB

[ExMilitary]

...but today uploaded his 2014 even more expanded version. You can download it at the new link. Pretty big at nearly 25MB

Nice!

[Ian Liddle]

I received a helpful reply from Ellis Skolfield, in which he referred me to the section in the Study Guide entitled "11 Beasts in Daniel".
From reading this segment of the Study Guide, I make two observations -

• The "time of the end" in Daniel 8 is taken to mean the "time of the end of the Old Testament Levitical Era", which is clearly not the same as the post-1967 "time of the end".  In other words, Daniel 8 has already been fulfilled - and the details are given in this section of the Study Guide.
• Ellis Skolfield would appear to agree with me in respect of the 2300 "evenings mornings", which are taken to represent 1150 literal days.  This fits the approximate time-span during the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, from this tyrant's abolition of the daily sacrifices until the temple was eventually cleansed (as commemorated at Chanukah/Feast of Dedication).

Problem solved!

[PeteWaldo]

I received a helpful reply from Ellis Skolfield, in which he referred me to the section in the Study Guide entitled "11 Beasts in Daniel".
From reading this segment of the Study Guide, I make two observations -

• The "time of the end" in Daniel 8 is taken to mean the "time of the end of the Old Testament Levitical Era", which is clearly not the same as the post-1967 "time of the end".  In other words, Daniel 8 has already been fulfilled - and the details are given in this section of the Study Guide.
• Ellis Skolfield would appear to agree with me in respect of the 2300 "evenings mornings", which are taken to represent 1150 literal days.  This fits the approximate time-span during the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, from this tyrant's abolition of the daily sacrifices until the temple was eventually cleansed (as commemorated at Chanukah/Feast of Dedication).

Problem solved!

Excellent!

[ExMilitary]

I received a helpful reply from Ellis Skolfield, in which he referred me to the section in the Study Guide entitled "11 Beasts in Daniel".
From reading this segment of the Study Guide, I make two observations -

• The "time of the end" in Daniel 8 is taken to mean the "time of the end of the Old Testament Levitical Era", which is clearly not the same as the post-1967 "time of the end".  In other words, Daniel 8 has already been fulfilled - and the details are given in this section of the Study Guide.
• Ellis Skolfield would appear to agree with me in respect of the 2300 "evenings mornings", which are taken to represent 1150 literal days.  This fits the approximate time-span during the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, from this tyrant's abolition of the daily sacrifices until the temple was eventually cleansed (as commemorated at Chanukah/Feast of Dedication).

Problem solved!

I need some help:

FYI, I've been all the way through Ellis' study guide sever times.

What in the context requires us to interpret 2300 evenings mornings as 1150 days?  Why couldn't this just be a distinct expression of literal days and not day/year days (as you pointed out in an earlier post)?  In other words 2300 cycles of evenings mornings. (2300 literal 24 hour days).  I've heard it argued that the 2300 evenings mornings represents 2 sacrifices per day, but is the taymid in verse 11 different than the 2 sacrifices per day?

The interpretation seems to ignore verse 11 which is interpreted for us in verse 25... that he will stand up against the prince of princes.  Who is the prince of princes?

[Ian Liddle]

I need some help:

FYI, I've been all the way through Ellis' study guide several times.

What in the context requires us to interpret 2300 evenings mornings as 1150 days?  Why couldn't this just be a distinct expression of literal days and not day/year days (as you pointed out in an earlier post)?  In other words 2300 cycles of evenings mornings. (2300 literal 24 hour days).  I've heard it argued that the 2300 evenings mornings represents 2 sacrifices per day, but is the taymid in verse 11 different than the 2 sacrifices per day?

The interpretation seems to ignore verse 11 which is interpreted for us in verse 25... that he will stand up against the prince of princes.  Who is the prince of princes?

My apologies, ExMilitary, for not replying earlier to your post on July 4th, but I have not logged on for a while.

The context of the 2300 "evening-mornings" is the taking away of the regular sacrifices.  The Hebrew word tamid (Strong's 8548), as used in verse 11, appears to have a number of possible renderings in English, but seems to refer to the regular (twice daily) sacrifice in Daniel 8:11.  Clearly 2300 "regular sacrifices" (half of them in the evening and the other half in the morning) would be equivalent to 1150 days, which are literal days.  This then makes sense in the historical context of Antiochus IV Epiphanes defiling the temple and preventing the regular sacrifices from taking place over this period of time.

With reference to the "Prince of Princes", I can only assume that this expression refers to Jesus, the "Arm of God" and the leader of Heaven's army.  Elsewhere in the Book of Daniel (e.g. Daniel 10:13 and Daniel 12:1), He is referred to as Michael (literally: "[He] Who is like God").  Battles on earth are complemented by battles in the spiritual realm, and "little horn" (Daniel 8:9) is a type of the final Antichrist, who is the personification of Satan, from whom he gets his power.  The war on earth between Antiochus IV Epiphanes and God's people was mirrored by a struggle in the spiritual realm.  Much of Scripture needs to be read on more than one level, and this applies especially to the Books of Daniel and Revelation.

I hope this is helpful (belatedly).