MUZAMMILO Q Pete A

[Peter]

Hi.... brotherjw

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Please look at these two verses

Deuteronomy
24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel
18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

The verses speak for themselves...also, THE LAW OF MOSES requires you to believe that

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin. "

God never says "for the sin of Adam and Eve I will punish you all" in the entire Bible.
Jesus Christ Son of Mary never said it either.
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Now, let me prove to you that the Trinity is impossible.

Lets say a piece of string shaped into circle represents the attributes of man....needing, mortal, ignorant, sinful, repentant...etc

Lets say a piece of string shaped into the square represents the attributes of GOD.....Eternal, Self-Subsisting, All-Mighty, Perfect, Supreme..etc

Your dogma tells me that Jesus is God and Man at the same time. Well , then please tell me that without changing the strings as they are, the square is a circle and a circle a square. You will never be able to do it.

I must also explain to you that it is incorrect to say that GOD can do anything. If you still believe so, then please answer the following questions.

1. Can God literally destroy himself?.....(not transform as you would say...that does not count, because, HE would still be existing in a different form)
Answer NO

2. Can God take you or anything for that matter and kick it out of HIS KINGDOM?
Answer NO.....If God OWNS everything, then it is impossible to remove anything from HIS KINGDOM.

3. Can God create another god greater than HIMSELF?
Answer NO......Then He would not be God, now would HE!

Your conclusion to all my questions will ultimately be that GOD CANNOT DO UNGODLY THINGS.

The moment you think this thought......It will be incumbent upon you to see that IF GOD DOES NOT DO UNGODLY THINGS.......and ask "why do I say that GOD became a man"...."this is an ungodly act"........And as I proved to you earlier.......God cannot do certain things....this includes RETAINING GODLINESS AND UNGODLINESS at the same time...


Here is another one for you....CAN GOD EXIST AND NOT EXIST AT THE SAME TIME?

NO.....by their definitions this is also is impossible....


Even after all this..you will tell me ;
A. Look at scripture (Bible)...I'm willing to argue that later....
B. Criticize Prophet Muhammad PBUH...also willing to argue....

C. Tell me that God became man to understand...love etc... and sacrifice himself for man's sin.

Let's tackle C first.

If I make a car....from scratch....must I become the car to fix it?.....NO....I made it therefore I am fully aware of what needs it requires and how to maintain it. I simply write an instruction manual on how to run it.

God (ALLAH) does the same thing....He IS ALL-KNOWING, ALL-AWARE, He knows exactly what you need and can provide those needs from his realm.

Why must you believe in ORIGINAL SIN? If you say your god is so loving....THEN WHY CAN'T HE JUST FORGIVE?.....Must he doom everyone to hell, for ANOTHER MAN'S doing?

Would you believe in ORIGINAL BELIEF?
If I told you that because Adam and Eve were righteous people that you would inherit Heaven WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING FOR YOURSELF?

>>>>Would you be willing to accept that because of your forefathers BELIEF in GOD, YOU SIMPLY GET INTO HEAVEN? But the man who struggles IN THE WAY OF GOD, who is righteous and lives a noble life....for him is eternal hell FOR HIS DIS-BELIEF IN ORIGINAL BELIEF?

Answer this....Does any nation on earth punish another man for the guilty man's crime? NO.
If you agree and still believe in Original Sin, you are saying that man is more just than GOD?!


Answer this.....Why did god(father) wait thousands of years after Adam to send his only begotten son?
What was he doing with Jesus and the holy ghost for billions of years?


Answer this.....WHY didn't any prophet ever worship Jesus or the Trinity before Christ? If you say that the whole point of Jesus coming is to expiate our sins then would not the Prophets of past worship him?

NO MENTION OF TRINITY.
NO MENTION OF ORIGINAL SIN
NO MENTION OF HOLY GHOST, GOD-THE FATHER, GOD-THE SON

It will not be found spoken out of any PROPHET'S mouths before Jesus Son of Mary.

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And Remember....I have demonstrated my case still without using even one quote about JESUS from the Bible.....

PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS AS THE WEIGHT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS LIES HEAVILY ON YOUR END.
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I humbly await your rebuttal


ONE LAST REQUEST......PLEASE BRING ME PROOF OF ABROGATION IN THE QURAN....

I WANT EVIDENCE......UNTIL YOU FIND IT.......YOU HAVE NOTHING.


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THE BIGGEST ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM WILL ALWAYS BE THAT NO BODY BEFORE JESUS MENTIONED THE TRINITY OR ORIGINAL SIN.......
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May Allah guide you to SUPREME TRUTH....Islam....
Peace Be Unto You...

[Peter]

I no longer have time to spend in the dark alley of personal messaging with hard heads and hearts that are generally too cowardly to respond to my responses.
The only way I will even read your PM, much less respond to it, is after I copy and paste it into the forum with your YouTube user ID.
It will appear in this section:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0

As our messaging goes back and forth I will continue to copy and paste these messages into that thread, though it would be easier for you to create a user ID and participate directly in the forum.

I am sure you would agree that it would only be fair if you also respond, to questions that I ask of you, in a parallel thread. Are you prepared to defend your religion or should I simply throw out your PM before my time is wasted?

[Peter]

    MUZAMMILO Replied:

 Re: Hi again

yea I'm ready to do have a Crusade....lol....

[Peter]

Hi.... brotherjw

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please look at these two verses

Deuteronomy
24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel
18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

The verses speak for themselves...also, THE LAW OF MOSES requires you to believe that

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin. "

Let me help with a little context for your prooftexted verses. God's people, the Jews and Christians, have followed Him for over 3500 years in two covenants through His Holy Word.
The first covenant that God made with His chosen people the Jews is detailed in what Christians call the Old Testament (Jews - Tanach - Torah, Scriptures, Prophets, etc.). Christians and Jews share in common the Old Testament and believe it to be the inerrant Word of God.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Abraham's wife Sarah encouraged him to have a son with her handmaiden Hagar because Sarah thought herself too advanced in years to have a child. He did and that son was Ishmael.
God did later bless Sarah with a child which Ishmael mocked. Sarah told Abraham to throw Hagar and Ishmael out which he did.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=237.0

God was not vague about in whose seed this covenant was made.

Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

As you likely know God had the Jews build a temple on the temple mount whose focus was the alter where animals were sacrificed for blood atonement.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=atonement+sin&t=KJV

But the bible doesn't end with the books from which you quote, from back near the very beginnings of mankind, any more than it ended in the garden of Eden.
That Old Covenant prophesied a new covenant.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

That new covenant came in the first century through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

Mat 26:28 For this is MY BLOOD of the new testament, which is SHED FOR MANY for the remission of sins.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

And of course that "law in their inward parts" that was prophesied over 700 years before Jesus was made manifest, is manifest in God's Spirit being put IN the regenerate person.

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Now this new covenant brought GENTILES like you and I into God's salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it.

Instead of repeated animal sacrifice Jesus provided that ONE SACRIFICE for all:

Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

As prophesied hundreds of years in advance:

Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Even Muslims believe that the first drop of blood shed by one of their so-called martyrs may provide propitiation for the sins of 70 of their nearest and dearest friends and relatives, so the concept shouldn't be unfamiliar to you.

(Though Christian martyr says "I will die for what I believe"
Muslim so-called martyr says "You will die for what I believe")

Are you with me so far? Any questions?

[Peter]

God never says "for the sin of Adam and Eve I will punish you all" in the entire Bible.
Jesus Christ Son of Mary never said it either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Why would you expect God to quote you? That is to say why would you presume to author God's Word by dictating in quotes, in your words, what you wish you could find there?

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Don't you sin? Aren't you a sinner? Well guess what:

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Death. Not for how much sin, or what kind of sin, simply death. But we don't have to suffer eternal death:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

[Peter]

Now, let me prove to you that the Trinity is impossible.

The term trinity is a doctrinal term, or a shortcut way of describing three ways that God chose to manifest, or reveal, Himself to us.

Lets say a piece of string shaped into circle represents the attributes of man....needing, mortal, ignorant, sinful, repentant...etc

Lets say a piece of string shaped into the square represents the attributes of GOD.....Eternal, Self-Subsisting, All-Mighty, Perfect, Supreme..etc

Your dogma tells me that Jesus is God and Man at the same time. Well , then please tell me that without changing the strings as they are, the square is a circle and a circle a square. You will never be able to do it.

Rather than discussing nonconstructive and unrelated string models, let's talk about God.
If God hadn't chosen to manifest, or reveal Himself to us, how could we even know that He existed?

One of the ways God chose to manifest Himself to us is through His Spirit.
In creation for example:

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Here God puts His Spirit into a man to give him what is described:

Exd 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Even Mohammed taught about the Spirit of God in a very similar way:

Sura 32:9 But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something OF HIS SPIRIT. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!

Here Mohammed makes reference to the Holy Spirit:

Sura 16:102 Say, the HOLY SPIRIT has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

Let me pause here and ask. You believe that God has a Spirit don't you?