I am muslim, and i want to asq some questions

[PeteWaldo]

Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

it is the Christians who are imperialists . and traveling thousands of kilometers to kill Muslims in Iraq , Syria, Afghanistan , Bosnia and support dictators and use them

Your cognitive function and capacity for critical thought is deeply compromised.
Please look at what you quoted and how preposterously unrelated your answer is.

I live in freedom and liberty with my God-given right to self-determination guaranteed not to be infringed, with freedom to worship as I choose in whatever religion I choose, as do others in western democracies (or representative Republics like in the U.S.).

Why don't you give us an idea as to what would happen to you if you, if you were to reject the death cult of Islam, to begin a life in Christ Jesus?

it is not surprise if you are from USA.

Indeed I am, where my God-given rights to freedom, liberty and self-determination are guaranteed along with my God-given right to speak freely.

The very antithesis of the slavery, murder, mayhem, misery and oppression of despotic totalitarian rule in Islamic slave states and sharia law. Satan's slavery. Satan's law. Where nation States murder or imprison their own citizens for leaving Islam, and even murder or imprison them for speaking freely about Muhammad and Islam as revealed through Islam's own books.

"Algeria – While Algeria has no direct laws against apostasy, its laws indirectly cover it. Article 144(2) of Algerian code specifies a prison term to anyone who criticizes or insults the creed or prophets of Islam through writing, drawing, declaration, or any other means; further, Algerian law makes conversion from Islam and proselytizing by non-Muslims an offense punishable with fine and prison term.[10]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Where_punished

Wouldn't a person that loved freedom, liberty, the right to self-determination and truth have to absolutely despise living in such a conspicuously Satan-ruled slave-state like that?
It should be obvious to even the most weak minded among us, that truth-censoring through such reprobate rule is the result of Satan's people being jealous of the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination that Muhammadans are deprived of through their slavery and submission to their Muslim masters. Truth is, after all, what Muhammad's followers fear most.

what you say living in christ jesus is from Paul and not from Jesus.

Poor lost soul doubling-down on your lie, even after I showed you repeatedly that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all accounted of the crucifixion of Christ and his death and resurrection from the dead. For pity's sake, faith in the shed blood of the Lamb of God that was sacrificed to save us from dying in our sins, is the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel!

If you had remained ignorant, you might have gotten a pass. But now you will stand in judgment before the very Son of God you deny and blaspheme, in full knowledge of the truth and then rejecting it. Your choice, your fate. Here's how the Gospel of Matthew closes:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Remember: John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Paul was not an apotle. he was preachig another spirit and another Gospel

Lies upon lies. Paul preached the same Gospel as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. All of whom testified that Jesus was crucified, died and was raised from the dead.
God gave you the free will to accept or reject His Son. Your choice your fate.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

you are slil pagans. as your ancestors

This from a guy that prostrates himself toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca 5 times a day, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" (as the scriptures refer to Salat), in the names of the Arabian pagan's moon god "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad. Venerating the very same pagan idol that the Quraish pagan's venerated, before Muhammad was ever born. Even obligated to waste your money traveling to that black stone idol, to march around it 7 times, just as the Arabian pagan's did. Muhammad plunging his followers even deeper into it than the pagans, by duping them into kissing or at least pointing to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol, on each trip around!
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

Muhammadans even run back and forth between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah, just as the Arabian pagan jinn-devil worshipers did, before Muhammad was ever born.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

I resume my faith like below:

1- Jesus was not crucified dear Waldo.

Can't even you see how Satan inspired the words you just wrote?
You just admitted that your faith is in DISBELIEF!
It is Satan that inspires your DISbelief, just the way Satan inspires the same DISbelief in atheists and other antichrists such as yourself.

Muhammad's denial of the crucifixion of the Messiah was originated by a first century sorcerer named Simon Magus. He was followed by a follower named Basilides. Basilides influenced the 2nd century occult cult of the Ebionites. Any surprise then that Khadijah's cousin Waraqa was an occult Ebionite priest, from who Muhammad received so much of his "revelations"?
http://www.petewaldo.com/simon_magnus_gnostics_ebionites_islam.htm

It would be a hilarious comedy, if it weren't the greatest tragedy, in the history of mankind.

2-Jesus was not the Messiah he was Elias like i have already posted in my first post

3-Jésus was innocent of stating he was a God's son. this stating is blasphemous

My sorely deluded friend, Islam IS blasphemy, against the one true God of the scriptures of Jews and Christians. THE false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast" is just as prophesied:

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/blasphemy_laws.htm#islamic_blasphemy_in_prophecy

I invite you to recognise the truth God and his Book

But you aren't even a Muslim, so you have no book, since Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah.

And you've already been shown the impossibility of the filthy preposterous lie you believe.
Was Muhammad born in Bethlehem?
Was Muhammad born of a virgin?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18593#msg18593
Did Muhammad "dwelleth with" the apostles?
Was Muhammad "in" the apostles?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/comforter_paraclete.htm

These exchanges always go the same way. Muhammadan's ignore, blaspheme, run away, ignore, blaspheme, run away, ignore, blaspheme and run away some more. Just as is to be expected.

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

[ps49]

The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

For starters, there's plenty of archaeological evidence to prove that "Allah" existed prior to Muhammed's so called revelations. "Allah" is actually derived from "al-ilah"; a pre-Islamic and quite pagan moon god. "Allah" was then a god peculiar to the region of Arabia and was generally considered the highest amongst the Arabic pantheon of gods. All Muhammed really did was to eliminate the pantheon and keep his favourite "Allah" to form what I might call a pagan version of monotheism. Even the esteemed crescent moon used to represent the polytheistic moon god "Allah" has been retained to this day. A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia. It is amusing to note that Muhammed thought of the Christian Trinity as Allah, Jesus and His mother Mary - how wrong can a so called prophet be?

Here's a good read:-
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Secondly, in the Bible, Genesis 1 is all about denouncing the prevalent pagan sun and moon and star worship of that time. Instead of a pantheon of gods, there is a single Creator God and the celestial objects are relegated to being nothing more than objects spoken into existence by God. It is, amongst other things, a polemic against polytheism, paganism and just the kind of moon-god worship which Islam represents to this day. Genesis 1 would have been extraordinarily divergent from the common polytheism of the time - and quite confrontational about it too.

do not forget that the Ishmaelites are descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham.

It doesn't change the truth of the matter though: Muslims worship an old pagan Arab moon-god which has no connection to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The black stone of the Ka'ba is an old pagan Arab stone idol dedicated to "Allah", the Arab moon-god, which Muslims even to this day regularly prostrate themselves before. Genesis 1 clearly shows that this sort of behaviour is not only in error but is entirely disgraceful.

Here's another link about moon-god "Allah", seemingly written by ex-Muslims:-
http://faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm

[bahous]

How many times bahous? We completely get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, which indicates you are not a Muslim, but instead follow a god of your own creation.?

muslims don't know the bible.

The Koran says that only who know bible deeply can recognise that Muhammed (SAWS) is a prophet of God.

I am studying bible for over 22 years Sir Wald.  i tell you the truth. i have any purposes only to tell you the truth.

[ps49]

How many times bahous? We completely get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, which indicates you are not a Muslim, but instead follow a god of your own creation.?

muslims don't know the bible.

The Koran says that only who know bible deeply can recognise that Muhammed (SAWS) is a prophet of God.

I am studying bible for over 22 years Sir Wald.  i tell you the truth. i have any purposes only to tell you the truth.

But in the New Testament, Jesus warned us repeatedly, long before Muhammed was born, that we are to watch out for false prophets who will come and deceive many.

Mat 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Mat 24:11 “Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

Mat 24:24 “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

In addition to these clear warnings, it is of the utmost difficulty to believe that God would raise up a prophet from amongst the Gentiles. That would be most unusual. As for Muhammed being The Messiah, that is prophetically impossible.

Also consider how Muhammed's teachings are so opposite of what Christ told us. For starters, Jesus knew that He would have to die by the hands of iniquity and be risen on the third day. He told the disciples quite plainly ahead of time:-

Mat 20:17-19 Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”

This forecast of Christ's fate was prophesised in the Old Testament and then shown as fulfilled in the New Testament by Jesus of Nazareth. But then in the Quran we read this:-

Quran 4:157-158 "And because of their (the Jews) saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger- they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain. But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise."

Thus it is clear that the Quran contradicts directly the basic tenets of those who have faith in Christ Jesus, The Prophesised Messiah, Son of God, Saviour of the World.

When we also consider the behaviour of Muhammed, we find him again to be the opposite of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not muster an army of blood thirsty villains to persuade people of His identity. Jesus did not engage in deceit, robbery, murder or rape. The Apostles of Chirst Jesus spread the Word of God peacably while suffering greatly at the hands of the wicked for doing so - including Paul whom you seem to focus on as if he was without works or preached differently to the twelve. They (the Apostles) gave their lives unto death for the testimony of Jesus Christ. They did so because they were entirely without doubt concerning all that they had witnessed in Christ and the identity of Jesus as The Messiah. A man might give his life for what he believes but that doesn't make his belief right; but what kind of men would give their lives for that which they know to be a lie?

It's pretty obvious that Muhammed imagined himself to be the greatest revelation of God thus in his own mind raising himself higher than the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth. Yet despite assigning himself such an impossibly high status (typical trait of a psychopath), he was unable to mimic the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ - and that is why he must deny it.

So on a purely intellectual level, is it any wonder that alarm bells ring loud and clear in the minds of Christians when presented with Muhammed and Islam? Instead of a genuine interest in the Old and New Testaments, the message of God through Christ Jesus, you seem determined to pick it apart and re-imagine what it says so as to give credibility to the Quran. You do so because deep down you know that the Quran has no credibility of its own and your desperation of it shows in your posts. The so called gospel of Barnabas which was fabricated by Muslims in the late 16th century (shortly after the failed Islamic invasion of Europe around Vienna) bears witness of this awful attitude.

If you truly worship the one and only true Living God then I suggest you first stop prostrating your self towards the idolatrous lump of rock in Mecca.  Then forget Muhammed and embrace Christ Jesus as The Messiah - it is He whom you seek.

[PeteWaldo]

How many times bahous? We completely get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, which indicates you are not a Muslim, but instead follow a god of your own creation.?

muslims don't know the bible.

That's easy to see from Muslim's posts. Like this sorely deluded soul in another thread who kept insisting that "The Lord came....with ten thousands of saints" in Deuteronomy was a reference to Muslims! Just look at how broken his reading and comprehension skills, and capacity for critical thought is, at this link:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4724.msg18138#msg18138

And according to the recent post by this Pakistani former Muslim, Muslims don't read the Quran much more than they do the bible:

"I tell you I have lived all my life in Islamic Pakistan, where 90% of Muslims who owned a copy of Quran but never read it and the books of Hadiths were considered a definite no, no....
Why? because sane Muslims knew how radical Islam is! yes there is nothing like moderate Islam. We never had any book of Hadith in our home, save a copy of Quran which was only read once a year during the fasting month of Ramzan by my mother and no one else."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4817.0

Another reason so many Muslims have never read the bible, is because the rate of illiteracy in Muslim countries is so high, because they haven't yet evolved out of Muhammad's 7th century and joined the civilized world:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.msg7481#msg7481

"Sennels says that “the ability to enjoy and produce knowledge and abstract thinking is simply lower in the Islamic world.” He points out that the Arab world translates just 330 books every year, about 20% of what Greece alone does.
In the last 1,200 years of Islam, just 100,000 books have been translated into Arabic, about what Spain does in a single year. Seven out of 10 Turks have never even read a book."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.msg7481#msg7481

The Koran says that only who know bible deeply can recognise that Muhammed (SAWS) is a prophet of God.

I am studying bible for over 22 years Sir Wald.  i tell you the truth.

I believe you may have studied Islamic taqiyyah and dissimulation about the bible for 22 years, but how could a person have studied the bible for 22 years and somehow missed that the whole subject of the Gospel is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, who saves all from dying in our sins who have faith in His shed blood? How could you have read the Gospel and not understood that is the whole purpose behind the Lamb of God being made manifest to the world?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

How could you have read the Gospel and not have seen the hundreds of verses that proclaim THE Son of God and His Father?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm

i have any purposes only to tell you the truth.

And we love you so much we only want to bring you the truth bahous, so you can have faith in what to believe, rather than placing your faith in what not to believe as you admitted earlier.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

We believe in all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, whose people have followed Him through two covenants for 3500 years.

You are compelled to DISbelieve the bible, and particularly Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and even Jesus' own prophecies, because you put your faith in Muhammad alone through his heavily abrogated 23-year 7th century record.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

One of the most important things to help you overcome Muhammad is to recognize who built the Kaaba, and that the kaaba was built in the 5th century AD, and that it was built it for pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1133.0

Sahih Muslim Book 007, Number 3078:  'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger may peace be upon him) said to me: Had your people not been unbelievers in the recent past (had they not quite recently accepted Islam), I would have demolished the Ka'ba and would have rebuilt it on the foundation (laid) by Ibrahim; for when the Quraish had built the Ka'ba, they reduced its (area), and I would also have built (a door) in the rear.

[PeteWaldo]

Since you claim to have read the bible, and I presume you have read the Quran, let me ask you a simpler question. Do you believe that God has a Spirit?

Sura 15.29: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Sura 2.87 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit.....

[PeteWaldo]

https://youtu.be/UuCPgpQl34g

[PeteWaldo]

You ignore, run away, ignore, run away and ignore and run away again. And now you try to run away from the whole thread by starting another thread, in efforts to abandon the truth as revealed in this thread that left you dumbstruck.

Your attempt at starting another thread, and every other post that fails to answer questions you have ignored over and over, go to spam until you quit breaking the oath you took when you joined the forum, and offer substantive responses to the questions you were asked in this thread.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4831.msg18637#msg18637

Why do you suppose you couldn't even answer the simple question I asked you last?

[bahous]

you are a liar

you prove it clearly in removing my post: where does the error come from?


if you are ia miserable Pakistani whose  suffering from famine and that has given the visa to the USA. and can be the nationality it is not surprising that you ought to your lords of hatred and lies against Islam

you have no shame when you closed my topic and you're cheating on the same nobre SUV and answers.

[PeteWaldo]

you are a liar

you prove it clearly in removing my post: .......

Your posts are all stored in the spam section, where they will remain until such time as you decide to quit breaking the oath you took when you joined the forum, and engage in an exchange.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4831.0

I moved your initial topic from the welcome section to this more appropriate general discussion section. At least for now it will enjoy increased exposure, since your title now appears in two forum sections.

...... where does the error come from?


if you are ia miserable Pakistani whose  suffering from famine and that has given the visa to the USA. and can be the nationality it is not surprising that you ought to your lords of hatred and lies against Islam

you have no shame when you closed my topic and you're cheating on the same nobre SUV and answers.

Yet all you had to do was honor the vow you took when you joined the forum, that you subsequently broke in typical Muslim fashion, which was to simply engage in an exchange. Your personal MO in this forum and others.
Why not give decent, honorable, forum citizenship a try, beginning with the post at this link?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18640#msg18640

[PeteWaldo]

Bahous, you copy and pasted HTML tags from another forum in the above quoted post. I had to go into your post and scrub them out. When you do that the incompatible tags goof up our database. If you copy and paste HTML tags from another forum again, your posts will be removed outright.

no i am scholar. I am doing searsh in the Bible for 22 years

I asked you the following question 4 times, and you ignored it every time. I already informed you that is a violation of the forum rules that you agreed to abide by when you registered. If you ignore the question again, all of your posts will be stored in the spam section until you answer the question. Is it really that difficult to answer?

you fear me. you have to create subterfuge

"Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?"

Abu bakr does not represent any thing , its a criminal like those created him

Bahous, please accept my most sincere apology for not seeing that you answered this question after the fifth time I had to ask you. When you failed to properly attribute a quote to me, along with quoting my large bold font, it apparently obscured your answer from my glance. I wish you, or another forum member, had pointed out that you already answered the question. So let's continue the discussion.

You claim the Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi "does not represent anything", even though he is a university studied Islamic scholar, whose actions would seem to be supported by the Quran and Hadith. Additionally his actions are the same brand of imperialistic aggression, slaughter and subjugation that Muhammad himself engaged in and commanded his followers to engage in.

So maybe you could begin by pointing out to us what Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has done, that  Muhammad didn't do, or prescribe for his followers to do.

Let's start with the beheading of children.
Both Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and Muhammad beheaded children, so how does beheading children during Jihad "not represent anything" Islamic, when Muhammad himself engaged in it?

The mass-murder of the innocent Jewish farm boys and their dads and grandpas of the Banu Qurayza, is looked upon by many Muslims as one of the proudest moments in Islamic history.

Ishaq:461 "After the siege exhausted and terrorized them, the Jews felt certain that the Apostle would not leave them until he had exterminated them.
Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.'
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm#jews_torah

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Abu Dawud 38:4390 Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger of God commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

So how could you suggest beheading of children "does not represent any thing" Islamic?
Or is the beheading children part of what the Islamic State is doing, something that you yourself believes does indeed properly represent Muhammad and Islam?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18598#msg18598

"“ISIS turned up and said to the children, ‘You say the words that you will follow Mohammed,’ ”
“The children, all under 15, four of them, they said, ‘No, we love Yeshua [Jesus], we have always loved Yeshua.’
They chopped all their heads off."
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_islamic_state.htm#christian_children_beheaded

[PeteWaldo]

Abu bakr does not represent any thing , its a criminal like those created him

How does Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi "not represent anything" when it was it Muhammad and his followers that "created him"? What is he doing, from terrorism to slaughter, that Muhammad didn't do?

Surah 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them 

Surah 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."

Surah 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an.....

Of course it is a filthy lie for Muhammad's "Allah" to suggest the Gospel of the one true God binds anyone to fight and slay, so the only question here is, do you believe that Islamic terrorism and slaughter as practiced by orthodox Muslims are of Satan, or of the one true God that IS love?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=878.0

[bahous]

paul was a liar

[PeteWaldo]

paul was a liar

The reason that you were unable to provide a response to my last two posts, is because the truth is so apparent, that any sane and rational person can easily see that the murderous reprobate Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is, just as Muhammad was, driven by pure black-hearted evil just as all other murderers are.

Perhaps the terrifying prospect of recognizing Muhammad for what he undeniably was, is why you lashed out by allowing Satan to guide and compel you to respond with unrelated blasphemy against Paul, when even you yourself know that you must reject Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the whole subject of the Gospel, to follow THE false prophet Muhammad alone.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18579#msg18579

[PeteWaldo]

Bahous, you copy and pasted HTML tags from another forum in the above quoted post. I had to go into your post and scrub them out. When you do that the incompatible tags goof up our database. If you copy and paste HTML tags from another forum again, your posts will be removed outright.

no i am scholar. I am doing searsh in the Bible for 22 years

I asked you the following question 4 times, and you ignored it every time. I already informed you that is a violation of the forum rules that you agreed to abide by when you registered. If you ignore the question again, all of your posts will be stored in the spam section until you answer the question. Is it really that difficult to answer?

you fear me. you have to create subterfuge

"Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?"

Abu bakr does not represent any thing , its a criminal like those created him

So then you believe that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his followers are ruled by Satan?

[Shining Waters]

Dear Bahous

May I please give you some guidance?

John the Baptist was Elijah (symbolically—Matthew 11:13-14 & Luke 1:13-17 & Malachi 4:5), the one who came to announce the Messiah, and that person (Messiah) was Jesus (Yeshua, His Hebrew name). See http://clearbibleanswers.org/questionsanswers/124-jesus-said-that-john-the-baptist-was-the-elijah-to-come-but-john-denied-it-.html

The only way to have your question(s) answered is to read the entire Bible for yourself. You really must start at the beginning, in Genesis. Yes, it will take time, so start immediately Winking smile . Jesus (Yeshua) is pictured in every book of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. He doesn’t just show up near the end of the book. Most prophecies about Him are found in what is known as the “Old Testament”. The “New Testament” heavily quotes from the Old Testament because the Old Testament (OT) is ALL that there was when Jesus (Yeshua) was here on earth. It is ALL that the Apostles had. The books of the New Testament (NT) were written later, and as I mentioned, the writers quoted heavily from the OT to prove that Jesus (Yeshua) was the Messiah/Redeemer Who existed from the beginning and was pictured or prophesied about all through the OT.

Jesus (Yeshua) was/is God in the Flesh and He was/is the Word of God from the beginning as you will read in the Scriptures. He obeyed ALL of His Father’s Commands (which were His own Commands since He was/is God) and that is how He was able to die in our place as a substitute because He never sinned (broke God’s Commands) like all other humans do. He DID break the commandments and traditions of men (Pharisees/Rabbinical Judaism) that had added to and taken away from God’s Commands; it was these false teachings that He came to expose and correct, and for that these religious leaders hated him and ultimately had him killed. But----He allowed it for His Own purposes---He laid down His Own Life willingly so that we would not have to pay for our sins (breaking God’s Commandments) ourselves. We cannot say that the “Jews” killed him, we can say that false teachers and false religion of ANY “flavor” would have done the same in their shoes (because religious leaders do not want anyone rocking the boat and messing up their system of control and raking in the cash).

One of the reasons for reading the Bible for yourself, and starting from the beginning is that it is a story about the Messiah, the Redeemer, that develops over time and through the many books of Scripture. Any book is to be read from the beginning to the end, not the other way around! He is pictured in many ways throughout the Bible; the whole entire Book is about Him! As you read, you need to look for these. All verses and themes are to be backed up by other verses and themes. One can not take a verse out of context and build an idea or theology out of it---everything is built on two or three “witnesses”. Also, keep in mind that Jesus (Yeshua) participated in God’s “Appointed Times”, the 7 Feasts of God and the Sabbath. He was present to hear the Law of Moses every Sabbath with His parents, and eventually taught in the Temple on Sabbath; He died at Passover, was buried during Unleavened Bread and rose from the grave on First Fruits. His Holy Spirit was given to believers at Pentecost (Shavuot). He is scheduled to finish out the rest of the Holy Days (Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot), and likely VERY soon. Most of Christendom has no clue about this because in their effort of being anti-Semetic they exchanged God’s Holy Days for pagan holidays like Easter and Christmas. God’s Holy Days are so deeply rich with meaning, and so beautifully profound that it can not compare to the pagan holidays. Which brings me to my second point.

Another reason to read the Bible for yourself, is that many Christians do not fully understand the Bible because Christendom is fraught with false teachings that came from paganism, and they pick and choose verses, totally ignoring important teachings or claiming that Paul and Jesus taught something exactly opposite of what they actually did teach. They have received many wrong teachings and traditions of men from what is known as the “Early Church Fathers.” Church history shows that the “Early Church Fathers” rejected much of the OT and some of Paul’s and Jesus’ own words and tried to distance themselves from anything “Jewish”, even though Jesus and Paul and the Apostles were all Jewish and the oracles of God were given to the Jews to share with the rest of the world. The Prophets (in the OT) were all Jewish. The Bible is a Jewish book about a Jewish Messiah/Redeemer, but just like the Pharisees who made up extra laws and took away from God’s Laws, so too did the Early Church Fathers which eventually led to the Catholic Church, and then later the Protestants. The false teachings and traditions of men were also accepted by others such as the Baptists and Brethren, etc. These all have been heavily influenced by a man named Marcion (who lived from 85 to 160 AD), and other misguided men, and unbiblical traditions of men, incorporating pagan practices into Christianity making it an impure mixture. It is very hard to get to the truth when you have the blind leading the blind in many instances. People who are willing to study and dig to find the truth will find it. The others are happy to let the religious leaders tell them what to believe (this is in ANY religion) without checking to see if what they are being told is the truth. For example, Islam is a fairly new religion that began in the middle 600’s, 600+ years after Jesus (Yeshua) came on the planet. Exactly how and when did Islam come to be? I ask Catholics and Protestants the same question. Research historical truth from various sources, not what the religion or denomination says happened—their goal is to deceive.

For a good place to start, besides reading the Bible for yourself, you can read from www.therefinersfire.org . I do not agree with everything on the site, but you will learn a lot of the correct understanding of the Bible and what Jesus (Yeshua) and Paul, etc. ACTUALLY taught without being exposed to a lot of false teachings within mainstream Christendom. “The Chronological Gospels” is a book written by Michael Rood that explains the Messiah’s 70 week ministry (not three years like most of Christendom falsely teaches). Again, I do not agree with everything he teaches, but this book will help you gain the understanding and truth you desire to obtain. Passion for Truth Ministries and Corner Fringe Ministries are two other places to hear and learn what most of Christendom rejects which makes most of Christendom unable and unqualified to instruct according to what the Bible really says and means. These are all Messianic teachers and most of what they teach is sound, but beware of others who are also “Messianic” teachers that teach things that are not right and give the Messianic/Hebrew Roots Movement a bad name. Last but not least, this website is very valuable to help you understand what Islam is and is not. Please take advantage of their articles and earnestly ask the True Creator to show you the truth. May the True and Living God open your eyes.

[PeteWaldo]

Hello Shining Waters and welcome to the forum!

These all have been heavily influenced by a man named Marcion (who lived from 85 to 160 AD), and other misguided men, and unbiblical traditions of men, incorporating pagan practices into Christianity making it an impure mixture.

On a quick study of "Marcionism" I can't quite see it, particularly since I tend to point the finger more at the 19th century false prophets/teachers (like John Nelson Darby by way of Ribera/de Lacunza) for the state of the institutional "church", but even more so 17th century Jesuit Luis Alcazar's preterism that breeds anti-Zionism and even outright antisemitism.

But then if the institutional church didn't "heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears" and it weren't for the rampant apostasy of today, then the prophecies thereof would not be being so convincingly fulfilled!
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm#cults
http://www.christianeschatology.com/falling_away_apostasy.htm

However our forum is more focused on pointing out the truth about Islam and bringing the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to to Muhammad's followers than critiquing the institutional church.

Again, welcome to the forum!

[Shining Waters]

I agree…Darby and others have done much damage, but Marcion may be where they get that from, at least in part. Check out these three articles:

https://carm.org/what-is-marcionism
 
http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm

http://www.spiritandtorah.com/marcion.html

If a person leaves Islam (or Hindu or Buddhist or any false religion) and ends up a Catholic or one of her daughters, how are they better off? This is why the apostasy within Christendom needs to be warned about and explained to them so that they don’t just jump from the frying pan into the fire by believing that saying “the sinner’s prayer” a prayer asking Jesus into their heart is all they need to get their ticket to heaven. That is not true, (even the demons believe and tremble-James 2) so they need to be shown what to avoid or they won’t be any better off spiritually.
http://www.sfee.info/Billy_Sunday_name_it_and_claim_it_evangelist.htm
http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm
Billy Graham was in the habit of sending people, (who supposedly got saved at his Crusades by saying the unbiblical “sinner’s prayer”), back to their churches, instead of helping them find congregations that held to the truth. They could be sent back to Catholic churches, Lutheran, etc. They could be sent back to very liberal churches, LGBT type with “pastors” being LGBT, or churches that support demonic rock music calling it “Christian” or any other liberal thing under the sun. Christendom is in a horrible mess spiritually and the Word says to “come out from among them”. Grace is taught as license to sin and it has wreaked havoc in the church. When people try to worship the God of Heaven in ways they were specifically told not to (x-mas/Easter and other ways) they are actually forfeiting any chance of entering into the Kingdom, but they believe they have the truth because they believe their false religious leaders instead of studying for themselves. This is serious and the consequences are eternal. The way is narrow, not wide. They are trying to climb in some other way which is considered being a thief and a robber. There is only one door to enter into. John 10:1
Shoebat is a good example of leaving Islam and becoming anti-Semitic and sympathetic toward Catholicism because his wife is Catholic. He bashes anything to do with Hebrew Roots (which does have its problems) but you don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sure, he correctly identifies Islam as the anti-Christ beast system, but now he is apparently a Catholic, so he’s really no better off spiritually and he is misleading people spiritually.
We have a responsibility to present Muslims and others with “the faith that was once delivered to the saints” and that is not what is presented within Christendom as a whole today. Jude 1 That is why I believe that we must critique some of these things that are a part of apostate Christendom, to make sure they don’t come out of Islam only to end up worshipping a baby x-mas jesus, etc..

[PeteWaldo]

I agree…Darby and others have done much damage, but Marcion may be where they get that from, at least in part. Check out these three articles:

https://carm.org/what-is-marcionism
 
http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm

http://www.spiritandtorah.com/marcion.html

If a person leaves Islam (or Hindu or Buddhist or any false religion) and ends up a Catholic or one of her daughters, how are they better off?

You confirmed my concerns regarding your having found your way into the wrong forum. There is no shortage of forums where Christians like to argue with great acrimony toward each other over their differences. This forum is not one of them. This is the Islam/Muslim - Christian forum which describes our focus.
Nor is this reply intended to encourage you to post further, in your effort to divide the body of Christ, more than it already is. While we are not champions of Roman Catholicism as that forum category reveals, we believe that one is saved by the condition of one's heart rather than the doctrine one happens to keep. In answer to your careless and perhaps borderline blasphemous question:

Catholics believe they are saved from dying in their sins through faith in the shed blood of the sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.

Muslims must deny that Christ was crucified - the basis of the whole subject of the Gospel - and thus must reject the shed blood that would save them, as an article of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad alone.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/

Catholics confess that Jesus is the Son of God.

Muslims are specifically antichrist because they must deny that Jesus is the Son of God as another article of their faith, in the false prophet Muhammad alone, while even engaging in blasphemy against Him.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

Indeed Muslims are soooo antichrist, they are taught that to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus' name, would be to commit the single most "heinous" and only unforgivable sin in the false prophet Muhammad's cult. A sin worse than child rape or cold-blooded mass murder for example (and both of which Muhammad happened to be guilty of committing).
http://www.petewaldo.com/unforgivable_shirk.htm

Islam is an inversion of the Gospel, inspired by Satan himself, through his "messenger" Muhammad.

This is why the apostasy within Christendom needs to be warned about and explained to them so that they don’t just jump from the frying pan into the fire by believing that saying “the sinner’s prayer” a prayer asking Jesus into their heart is all they need to get their ticket to heaven. That is not true, (even the demons believe and tremble-James 2) so they need to be shown what to avoid or they won’t be any better off spiritually.
http://www.sfee.info/Billy_Sunday_name_it_and_claim_it_evangelist.htm
http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm
Billy Graham was in the habit of sending people, (who supposedly got saved at his Crusades by saying the unbiblical “sinner’s prayer”), back to their churches, instead of helping them find congregations that held to the truth. They could be sent back to Catholic churches, Lutheran, etc. They could be sent back to very liberal churches, LGBT type with “pastors” being LGBT, or churches that support demonic rock music calling it “Christian” or any other liberal thing under the sun. Christendom is in a horrible mess spiritually and the Word says to “come out from among them”. Grace is taught as license to sin and it has wreaked havoc in the church. When people try to worship the God of Heaven in ways they were specifically told not to (x-mas/Easter and other ways) they are actually forfeiting any chance of entering into the Kingdom, but they believe they have the truth because they believe their false religious leaders instead of studying for themselves. This is serious and the consequences are eternal. The way is narrow, not wide. They are trying to climb in some other way which is considered being a thief and a robber. There is only one door to enter into. John 10:1
Shoebat is a good example of leaving Islam and becoming anti-Semitic.........

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be.......false accusers.....

........and sympathetic toward Catholicism because his wife is Catholic. He bashes anything to do with Hebrew Roots (which does have its problems) but you don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sure, he correctly identifies Islam as the anti-Christ beast system, but now he is apparently a Catholic, so he’s really no better off spiritually and he is misleading people spiritually.
We have a responsibility to present Muslims and others with “the faith that was once delivered to the saints” and that is not what is presented within Christendom as a whole today. Jude 1 That is why I believe that we must critique some of these things that are a part of apostate Christendom, to make sure they don’t come out of Islam only to end up worshipping a baby x-mas jesus, etc..

I would appreciate it if you would find your way to a different forum where you might be more welcome.

[ExMilitary]

I agree…Darby and others have done much damage, but Marcion may be where they get that from, at least in part. Check out these three articles:

https://carm.org/what-is-marcionism
 
http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm

http://www.spiritandtorah.com/marcion.html

If a person leaves Islam (or Hindu or Buddhist or any false religion) and ends up a Catholic or one of her daughters, how are they better off? This is why the apostasy within Christendom needs to be warned about and explained to them so that they don’t just jump from the frying pan into the fire by believing that saying “the sinner’s prayer” a prayer asking Jesus into their heart is all they need to get their ticket to heaven. That is not true, (even the demons believe and tremble-James 2) so they need to be shown what to avoid or they won’t be any better off spiritually.
http://www.sfee.info/Billy_Sunday_name_it_and_claim_it_evangelist.htm
http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm
Billy Graham was in the habit of sending people, (who supposedly got saved at his Crusades by saying the unbiblical “sinner’s prayer”), back to their churches, instead of helping them find congregations that held to the truth. They could be sent back to Catholic churches, Lutheran, etc. They could be sent back to very liberal churches, LGBT type with “pastors” being LGBT, or churches that support demonic rock music calling it “Christian” or any other liberal thing under the sun. Christendom is in a horrible mess spiritually and the Word says to “come out from among them”. Grace is taught as license to sin and it has wreaked havoc in the church. When people try to worship the God of Heaven in ways they were specifically told not to (x-mas/Easter and other ways) they are actually forfeiting any chance of entering into the Kingdom, but they believe they have the truth because they believe their false religious leaders instead of studying for themselves. This is serious and the consequences are eternal. The way is narrow, not wide. They are trying to climb in some other way which is considered being a thief and a robber. There is only one door to enter into. John 10:1
Shoebat is a good example of leaving Islam and becoming anti-Semitic and sympathetic toward Catholicism because his wife is Catholic. He bashes anything to do with Hebrew Roots (which does have its problems) but you don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sure, he correctly identifies Islam as the anti-Christ beast system, but now he is apparently a Catholic, so he’s really no better off spiritually and he is misleading people spiritually.
We have a responsibility to present Muslims and others with “the faith that was once delivered to the saints” and that is not what is presented within Christendom as a whole today. Jude 1 That is why I believe that we must critique some of these things that are a part of apostate Christendom, to make sure they don’t come out of Islam only to end up worshipping a baby x-mas jesus, etc..

While I agree that idolatry and whatnot are rampant in RCC (as is evidenced in some of the brotherpete links found elsewhere), this is not the place to address those things.  There are PLENTY of other chat forums out there to expose the errors within the RCC or wherever else.  If you are going to remain in this forum, please address Islam, it's anti-God/anti-Gospel/anti-Christ nature, and it's role in the fulfilling of prophecy.

[Shining Waters]

I agree 100% with your assessment of Islam and value the work you have done. I was under the impression when I first joined that you were of the same mind, but I guess not. So don’t worry, I’m getting off this blog. As long as you point out the errors in Islam, that’s all that counts, apparently…and we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and let the chips fall where they may if they convert to some form of Christendom that isn’t spiritually right.

I was inclined to reply to Bahous’ first inquiry about who Elias (Elijah) was. No one on this blog ever answered his post, that I could see from months ago. This man should have been shown from the Bible right then that John the Baptist was symbolically Elijah. Who knows how much that would have helped him. I felt compelled to do what I could to help him understand.

The Word of God is what causes divisions, not me (Luke 12:51-53, Matthew 10:34-35, John 7:43 KJV). You are willing to go to great lengths to expose the lies and falsehood of Islam, but not expose and warn of the apostasy within Christendom, that you want Muslims to convert to. Whatever happened to Bible believers being a watchman and a guard for the truth, and not letting people fall into the hands of wolves in sheep’s clothing (I Timothy 6:20-21)? Not everyone who claims to know Jesus (Yeshua) gets in (Matthew 7:21-23).
 
The Popes claim to be a substitute (Vicar) for Christ and declares his authority to add and take away commandments of God (forbidden in Scripture: Deut.4:2, Proverbs 30:6 & Rev. 22:18-19), Mary is elevated above Christ and is considered the Mediatrix (Mediator—a roll that is uniquely Christ’s (Yeshua)) so it IS an anti-christ system as their Mary is Semeramis and their jesus  is Tammuz and not the Jesus of the Scriptures, so that the real Jesus IS being denied (spiritually but not outwardly-- Matthew 23: 28). The average RC might not know that, but the Pope and upper clergy do.

Would you have potential Muslim converts switch from moon worship to Babylonian sun-god worship? Or Scientology or Mormonism or Unitarianism or Jehovah Witnesses or Churches that teach Chrislam  http://www.exposingchrislam.com/  , or Freemasons, or New Age religions that ALL use the Bible and claim to know a jesus when these jesus’ are all false, thus making them all anti-Christ in some form (I John 4:1 & 2 Tim. 3:1-17) and voiding the Word of God (Mark 7:13, Matthew 15:6) and ending up in a worse state (Matthew 12:23) Doctrine and truth makes all the difference in the world and people can be deceived regarding their hearts (Jeremiah 17:1, Mark 7:21, Matthew 12:35, James 1:22-25).

I know that Muslims have a problem with RCC because of the Crusades and Inquisition and their claim to be “Christian” while murdering others that didn’t accept their false theology. What do you tell them?

All I am saying is that if you are going to pinpoint with accuracy the falseness of Islam (which I commend you for), then in order not be hypocritical in their eyes, you should also admit to and pinpoint the apostasy within Christendom to help them sort things out when they convert. That is what is required of all believers, in the Scriptures.

[ExMilitary]

I agree 100% with your assessment of Islam and value the work you have done. I was under the impression when I first joined that you were of the same mind, but I guess not. So don’t worry, I’m getting off this blog. As long as you point out the errors in Islam, that’s all that counts, apparently…and we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and let the chips fall where they may if they convert to some form of Christendom that isn’t spiritually right.

I was inclined to reply to Bahous’ first inquiry about who Elias (Elijah) was. No one on this blog ever answered his post, that I could see from months ago. This man should have been shown from the Bible right then that John the Baptist was symbolically Elijah. Who knows how much that would have helped him. I felt compelled to do what I could to help him understand.

The Word of God is what causes divisions, not me (Luke 12:51-53, Matthew 10:34-35, John 7:43 KJV). You are willing to go to great lengths to expose the lies and falsehood of Islam, but not expose and warn of the apostasy within Christendom, that you want Muslims to convert to. Whatever happened to Bible believers being a watchman and a guard for the truth, and not letting people fall into the hands of wolves in sheep’s clothing (I Timothy 6:20-21)? Not everyone who claims to know Jesus (Yeshua) gets in (Matthew 7:21-23).
 
The Popes claim to be a substitute (Vicar) for Christ and declares his authority to add and take away commandments of God (forbidden in Scripture: Deut.4:2, Proverbs 30:6 & Rev. 22:18-19), Mary is elevated above Christ and is considered the Mediatrix (Mediator—a roll that is uniquely Christ’s (Yeshua)) so it IS an anti-christ system as their Mary is Semeramis and their jesus  is Tammuz and not the Jesus of the Scriptures, so that the real Jesus IS being denied (spiritually but not outwardly-- Matthew 23: 28). The average RC might not know that, but the Pope and upper clergy do.

Would you have potential Muslim converts switch from moon worship to Babylonian sun-god worship? Or Scientology or Mormonism or Unitarianism or Jehovah Witnesses or Churches that teach Chrislam  http://www.exposingchrislam.com/  , or Freemasons, or New Age religions that ALL use the Bible and claim to know a jesus when these jesus’ are all false, thus making them all anti-Christ in some form (I John 4:1 & 2 Tim. 3:1-17) and voiding the Word of God (Mark 7:13, Matthew 15:6) and ending up in a worse state (Matthew 12:23) Doctrine and truth makes all the difference in the world and people can be deceived regarding their hearts (Jeremiah 17:1, Mark 7:21, Matthew 12:35, James 1:22-25).

I know that Muslims have a problem with RCC because of the Crusades and Inquisition and their claim to be “Christian” while murdering others that didn’t accept their false theology. What do you tell them?

All I am saying is that if you are going to pinpoint with accuracy the falseness of Islam (which I commend you for), then in order not be hypocritical in their eyes, you should also admit to and pinpoint the apostasy within Christendom to help them sort things out when they convert. That is what is required of all believers, in the Scriptures.

Noted... thanks for stopping by.