Author Topic: Re: Jesus is son of God  (Read 14019 times)

The Celt

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Re: Jesus is son of God
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2016, 01:16:32 PM »

Lucifer is Satan. Satan is Lucifer. Satan is an archangel.
Have I got it right?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 01:24:08 PM by The Celt »

ExMilitary

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Re: Jesus is son of God
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2016, 05:25:23 PM »

Lucifer is Satan. Satan is Lucifer. Satan is an archangel.
Have I got it right?

This board is intended as a ministry to Muslims, not for discussion about doctrine among Christians.

The original line of questioning on this thread was directed by/toward a Muslim, and has now gone way off track.  Time to get back to the subject matter.

I'd encourage you to remain within the confines of arguing for the Gospel among Muslims so they may be rescued from hell.

PeteWaldo

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Re: Jesus is son of God
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2016, 07:24:46 AM »

Lucifer is Satan. Satan is Lucifer. Satan is an archangel.
Have I got it right?

This board is intended as a ministry to Muslims, not for discussion about doctrine among Christians. The original line of questioning on this thread was directed by/toward a Muslim, and has now gone way off track.  Time to get back to the subject matter.

This is the right category for discussion of Christian doctrine which is why I moved it here, because his foray toward Nestorianism is one of the last things we need in this forum for Muslim browsing, which is why I split it off of Bahous' thread in the first place. Let alone the dithering on in vague confusion and mischaracterization, along with his latest post further vindicating the decision to have done so.

After having moved it to this section I offered an opportunity to discuss eschatology, to which he gave a little response to, but didn't bother replying to my response to his post.

I'd encourage you to remain within the confines of arguing for the Gospel among Muslims so they may be rescued from hell.

The Celt

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Re: Jesus is son of God
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2016, 03:26:28 PM »
Dear ExMilitary,

I'd encourage you to remain within the confines of arguing for the Gospel among Muslims so they may be rescued from hell.

I would love to do that but Pete is against it. I did mention on one post that I do not know much, if anything, about the different types of Churches of God. Nor do I support in any way, religious, doctrinal or financial, this man Herbert W. Armstrong. The reason is quite simple. I do not live in the USA but in Europe and we do not have such churches in my country. All that I know about the Churches of God is that they are Pentecostal and believe in Sabellianism. If there was one in my area I doubt if I would attend it. So I have no interest in finding out what they are up to.

It doesn't interest me who else may believe what I believe. I prefer to compare my beliefs with the Holy Scriptures, where I endeavour to search for the truth. Calling myself by theological terms which indicate my beliefs is something that I do not do. I restrict myself to what God has called me in the Holy Scriptures. I only got off the beaten track because I attempted to answer your questions. Thank you for understanding what I wrote about although I leave it up to you to accept or reject it.

I believe that Muslims have no conception of what the Messiah is. I have friends who are Muslims and do study their religion. They do like to talk about God with me. I do attempt to explain the necessity of the Messiah for our salvation to them.

If you have no wish to find out more about my beliefs then that is O.K. with me.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 05:21:52 PM by The Celt »

PeteWaldo

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Re: Jesus is son of God
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2016, 03:33:19 PM »
I believe that Muslims have no conception of what the Messiah is. I have friends who are Muslims and do study their religion. They do like to talk about God with me. I do attempt to explain the necessity of the Messiah for our salvation to them.

And I've no doubt that they say "Oh gee, as Muslims we believe that Jesus is the Messiah".

But what do they say when you preach Christ crucified, since they are required to specifically deny it, and thus the shed blood of the Lamb of God, as an article of their faith in Muhammad?

The Celt

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Re: Jesus is son of God
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2016, 05:15:55 PM »
Something like the other kingdom of God? Or the next kingdom of God?

There is only one kingdom of God., which has been existing since John the Baptist, and shall continue to exist forever because that is what God promised through Daniel.

Conquer the wickedness that is inherent in fallen man, who all inherit our sinful nature from Adam?
Other than, of course, "conquering" wickedness as scripture suggests:

The scripture that I had in mind was this one:

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 1 Corinthians 15: 23 -25.

There is certainly no shortage of futurists that believe in a physical, millennial reign of Christ on earth. Or is it your view that believers will spend eternity with Christ on earth? I believe that Jesus Christ ushered in His kingdom, just as He promised those who He told wouldn't die before He came in it.

I do not believe in a thousand year reign of Christ over the ungodly. I was speaking about the eternity to come. All the elect of God shall spend an eternity with God and Christ upon this earth.  That is why God turned this planet into a world. However, we enter the kingdom during our life time.

I believe He ushered in His kingdom when He returned from the Father in His glorified body after His resurrection from the dead. In any event, if He didn't usher His kingdom in while some of them were still alive, it would have made Him a false prophet. Let alone that His kingdom is not of this world:

The kingdom existed from the time of John the Baptist but the Lord Jesus Christ began his reign over the kingdom from the day of His resurrection.

And declared to be the Son of God (the King) with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. Romans 1: 4.

As I said before the term 'Son of God' in this verse is synonymous with the eternal Kingship of the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, as prophesied by the prophet Nathan to King David. 1 Chron. 17: 4 -14.
This was confirmed unto us by the archangel Gabriel Luke 1: 31 - 33. Why can't you see that? It is as plain as day. When the people saw Him in His resurrected body then they realized that the kingdom of God had been officially established upon earth.

Because the kingdom is within us:

The kingdom is at present spiritual until all the elect have been called into it. Then the end shall come and the kingdom shall take a more concrete form upon the whole earth.

He rules His kingdom today. Are you suggesting that He will be replacing His/our current temple, with some carnal temple of the flesh, built on this earth, from which He will rule? If so, why?

But some man will say, How are the dead raised up ? and with what body do they come ? So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15: 35; 42 -44; 50 - 53

Are you expecting some other household of God? Was Christ's finished work so unfinished, incomplete or insufficient that He would need to come back to build a better temple? That the temple He built in 3 days is so inadequate, that He would need a physical temple on earth, like the one that was torn down?

That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God. Ephesians 2: 12 & 19.

The heathens who became believers were no longer strangers to the covenants of promise or foreigners to the people of Israel. They are now fellow citizens with Jewish believers of the people of Israel, or the kingdom of God.

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Corinthians 3: 16 & 17.

The temple that Paul is speaking about here is the church, or the body of Christ. Ye (plural) are the temple of God. At present the temple is being built by the Holy Spirit. It won't be finished until the last person to be saved has joined it.

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 2: 20 - 22.

In the eternal kingdom upon earth we shall have God dwelling among us like He did after the Israelites were freed from Egypt. There shall never be a physical temple again. 

PeteWaldo

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Re: Jesus is son of God
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2016, 06:53:22 PM »
Please take a moment and learn how to quote posts in the forum. It will help everyone and automatically put in links to the post that is being quoted.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.msg48#msg48

Something like the other kingdom of God? Or the next kingdom of God?

There is only one kingdom of God., which has been existing since John the Baptist, and shall continue to exist forever .........

I agree.

......... because that is what God promised through Daniel.

Conquer the wickedness that is inherent in fallen man, who all inherit our sinful nature from Adam?
Other than, of course, "conquering" wickedness as scripture suggests:

The scripture that I had in mind was this one:

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,......

Indeed.

Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 10:7  But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Revelation 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

........ when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 1 Corinthians 15: 23 -25.

There is certainly no shortage of futurists that believe in a physical, millennial reign of Christ on earth. Or is it your view that believers will spend eternity with Christ on earth? I believe that Jesus Christ ushered in His kingdom, just as He promised those who He told wouldn't die before He came in it.

I do not believe in a thousand year reign of Christ over the ungodly. I was speaking about the eternity to come.
All the elect of God shall spend an eternity with God and Christ upon this earth.

But the earth is burned with fervent heat. Let alone that time itself (chronos) will cease to exist:

Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

That is why God turned this planet into a world. However, we enter the kingdom during our life time.

I believe He ushered in His kingdom when He returned from the Father in His glorified body after His resurrection from the dead. In any event, if He didn't usher His kingdom in while some of them were still alive, it would have made Him a false prophet. Let alone that His kingdom is not of this world:

The kingdom existed from the time of John the Baptist but the Lord Jesus Christ began his reign over the kingdom from the day of His resurrection.

And declared to be the Son of God (the King) with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. Romans 1: 4.

As I said before the term 'Son of God' in this verse is synonymous with the eternal Kingship of the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, as prophesied by the prophet Nathan to King David. 1 Chron. 17: 4 -14.
This was confirmed unto us by the archangel Gabriel Luke 1: 31 - 33. Why can't you see that? It is as plain as day. When the people saw Him in His resurrected body then they realized that the kingdom of God had been officially established upon earth.

I agree the kingdom of God is established since I am in it and Jesus Christ rules and reigns over the kingdom I am in. His will is being done in His kingdom on this earth in the meantime:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3006.0

Do you really imagine the saints on the other side of the kingdom are chomping at the bit to return to earth? What for? To build houses?

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

They're already built, my friend:  John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.