Pope Kissing Quran

[Peter]

Passing up an historic opportunity to label Islam the Evil Empire and begin to save those poor folks through public debate (like Ronnie Reagan declared of the Soviet Union), the pope instead chose to kiss the very book that curses the Christians and Jews, for believing in the only begotten Son of God.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

The very book that denies that Jesus even died on the Cross, let alone to save us.

photo pope kissing the Quran

Surah 4.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Mohammed's "Allah" even curses Christians and Jews:

Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the Son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

It would seem the pope took the coward's way out, and sold out Jesus, to avoid persecution.

2 Timothy 3:12  Yea, and all that will  live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

[Kathleen]

So according to the quran..Allah only made Jesus to appear dead..yet they take Christians lives because we believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.

The Quran denies Jesus, our Lord and Savior..maybe the Pope haven't read the quran yet.

[Pete]

Hard to imagine that someone hasn't at least given the Pope a little briefing:

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Just like in the "Allah's curse be on them" verse, Mohammed thought it was a thing that we "say". But there are over 100 verses that declare Jesus the Son of God.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.0
And 234 God the Father:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0

Again, welcome Kathleen. It's nice to have you on board. But then I might have gored your ox too. I didn't take too many prisoners in here as you may have noticed. My interest is in ferreting out the truth, not defending doctrine. I've been in that rather uncomfortable position myself as a former Darby styled futurist.

[Peter]

How much better did the next pope do, in standing up for Jesus, by bowing toward Mecca and praying from inside a mosque to appease the Muslims?
How many Muslims did these two popes wind up encouraging to remain in their delusion at the hand of THE false prophet?

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=pope+bows+to+mecca&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

[Peter]

Recently I was in a Roman church forum where, to my surprise, I found folks that call themselves Christians, defending Islam. But then they also had a poll on the question "Should Heretics Be Burned? in which there were 6 yeas and 44 neighs (over 13% of respondents in favor of burning heretics). As I pressed with verses from the Quran and scripture and found fewer and fewer willing to defend their position, one of the posters enlightened me as to the reason why. From the catechism:
____________________

"3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom."
_______________

Social justice. Like sharia law: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fbXvq_ZIbw
And honoring women: http://www.beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm

Yea. It's just a shame that Muslims follow the Quran - Satan's playbook. The most important fundamental requiring denying the Son of God. If a Muslim were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God he has committed THE ONLY UNARDONABLE sin in Islam (shirk).

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

What the pope would seem to have done is help the Muslims down their path of death.
And those "quarrels" involving the Islamic 1400 year murder, rape, pillage and plunder of jihad, regarding any "Christian" led attacks, they were perpetrated by the Roman church, not Christians. Here's how we know:

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mark 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these.

John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!

Surah 4:157  That THEY SAID (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST JESUS the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them,... FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

So is the Pope ignorant, or apostate? Why would he sell out Jesus?
Read "50 Years in the "Church" of Rome" by Charles Chiniquy
It's a cinch the Pope is helping them down the road to perdition according to the Word of God:

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

[Peter]

Having recently read "50 Years in the "Church" of Rome", long after starting this thread, I now understand how the pope could kiss the Quran.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=424.msg1693#msg1693

free online - 50 Years in the "Church" of Rome
http://www.biblebelievers.com/chiniquy/cc50_ch01.html

[resistingrexmundi]

I'm a little late to this bit of news but having seen it I had to say something.

What does anyone expect from the man who heads up the whore of babylon?
These blind and deaf "leaders" make concessions of faith to appease the vilest and most hateful religion on the earth today. The think they are peace makers but there is no peace outside of God through his son Jesus.

And naturally they respect the moslem. They enjoy the same kind of paganistic attitudes towards prayer and grace by works rather than faith.

While I wish all people grace and blessings I know that the only way to obtain them is through Jesus and so I pray that whatever it takes to wake people up out of this nonsense God will do. For what good is there in gaining the whole world and losing your soul.

[Peter]

I'm a little late to this bit of news.....

This was the prior pope. The present pope bowed to Mecca and prayed from inside the blue mosque in a similar act of cowardice / apostasy.

.... but having seen it I had to say something.

What does anyone expect from the man who heads up the whore of babylon?
These blind and deaf "leaders" make concessions of faith to appease the vilest and most hateful religion on the earth today.

I think you may have meant hateful peseudo Christian religion? At least it's hate pales in relation to Islam, though historical persecutions in the middle ages perhaps displayed some of the blackest hearts in mankind's history.
Good video on inquisitions in this category.

The think they are peace makers but there is no peace outside of God through his son Jesus.

And naturally they respect the moslem. They enjoy the same kind of paganistic attitudes towards prayer and grace by works rather than faith.

Indeed and death for apostasy. Don't know if you noticed in other threads but here are 6 Roman Catholics that voted in a forum in favor of burning heretics in a serious discussion:
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=95169

While I wish all people grace and blessings I know that the only way to obtain them is through Jesus and so I pray that whatever it takes to wake people up out of this nonsense God will do. For what good is there in gaining the whole world and losing your soul.

[resistingrexmundi]

I think you may have meant hateful peseudo Christian religion? At least it's hate pales in relation to Islam, though historical persecutions in the middle ages perhaps displayed some of the blackest hearts in mankind's history

While I cannot claim to make a conclusive case for Roman Catholic Church being the whore of babylon there are strong reasons for me to believe so.

1. They sold out their faith right from the start by including pagan rituals to help "ease" conversion. (whore)

2. They are certainly drunk on the blood of martyrs and appearantly proud of it given they rarely if ever admit to wrong doing. (pride) Though the pride has little to do with the point I am making.

3.They blaspheme God by considering their doctrine on the same level as His word.

4. Rome is situated on seven hills like the whore is situated on a beast of seven heads. (I realize this would introduce the idea of heads meaning something other than leaders but it is something to consider. Since horns also mean leaders we could see another meaning for head.)

5. The accosiation of the whore with scarlet and purple array. This was the official colors of Rome and became the colors identified with its clergy at its inception. It is also important to note the audacious way the money is displayed by the whore and by the RCC.

6. Now we see them making concessions yet again to pagans with their latest display. And since the pope is considered infallible by the "church" we can assume he is speaking for all of them. Babylon being the former capitol of part of the beast we now know is islam we can see the parallels more clearly.

[Peter]

I think you may have meant hateful peseudo Christian religion? At least it's hate pales in relation to Islam, though historical persecutions in the middle ages perhaps displayed some of the blackest hearts in mankind's history

While I cannot claim to make a conclusive case for Roman Catholic Church being the whore of babylon there are strong reasons for me to believe so.

1. They sold out their faith right from the start by including pagan rituals to help "ease" conversion. (whore)

2. They are certainly drunk on the blood of martyrs and appearantly proud of it given they rarely if ever admit to wrong doing. (pride) Though the pride has little to do with the point I am making.

3.They blaspheme God by considering their doctrine on the same level as His word.

But this is not possible. As Mary Collins put it a 2 headed dog can't hunt.
The Roman Church must of necessity put it's traditions above scripture. One must prevail, and if it was scripture, Roman doctrine would collapse.

4. Rome is situated on seven hills like the whore is situated on a beast of seven heads. (I realize this would introduce the idea of heads meaning something other than leaders but it is something to consider. Since horns also mean leaders we could see another meaning for head.)

Right you are. There are certainly no shortage that invoke the 7 hills of Rome but as you point out the language is unambiguous:

Rev 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Revelation 17:9  wde  <5602> {HERE [IS]}  o  <3588> {THE}  nouV  <3563> {MIND}  o  <3588> {WHICH}  ecwn  <2192> (5723) {HAS}  sofian  <4678> {WISDOM:}  ai  <3588> {THE}  epta  <2033> {SEVEN}  kefalai  <2776> {HEADS}  orh  <3735> {MOUNTAINS}  eisin  <1526> (5748) {ARE}  epta  <2033> {SEVEN,}  opou  <3699> {WHERE}  h  <3588> {THE}  gunh  <1135> {WOMAN}  kaqhtai  <2521> (5736) {SITS}  ep  <1909> {ON}  autwn  <846> {THEM.}

Seems we are stuck with the language, but if you read "50 years in the Church of Rome" you won't find it necessary to confirm with the 7 hills of Rome bit, as you mention in point 5. But I don't think those are leaders on either the LBL beast or this scarlet beast. I believe they are the successive empires, from Israel (I used to say Egypt as many do but I believe the first kingdom to be Israel since that is the subject) through the second Islamic Jihad.
The LBL beast detailing the physical historical procession and the scarlet beast the spiritual condition through those successive kingdoms. Consider:

Jerimiah 51:25  Behold, I [am] against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

In this verse not only is a kingdom indicated as a mountain, but it happens to be in the context of the ancient kingdom of Babylon. Is it a surprise then that we see the term used as an overall descriptive term for the great whore and for Babylon the Great, as well? As the Babylonian nature of those heads of those kingdoms, in summary, in the beast.

5. The accosiation of the whore with scarlet and purple array. This was the official colors of Rome and became the colors identified with its clergy at its inception. It is also important to note the audacious way the money is displayed by the whore and by the RCC.

Far worse was the drunkenness and no expense spared on the finest wines and foods when clergy got together, as their people starved. Even as the clergy brokered out prayers to a middle-man to send to England, they were given money by poor people, to say to help their loved ones out of purgatory. If you haven't read this book you will be fascinated by it.

Poignant chapter in Chiniquy's book regarding the account of the declaration of the 19th century dogma of Mary being sinless (immaculate in her conception), and how the "church" was arrayed for the event. http://www.biblebelievers.com/chiniquy/cc50_ch53.html

6. Now we see them making concessions yet again to pagans with their latest display. And since the pope is considered infallible by the "church" we can assume he is speaking for all of them. Babylon being the former capitol of part of the beast we now know is islam we can see the parallels more clearly.

In his words:

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=512.0

[resistingrexmundi]

But this is not possible. As Mary Collins put it a 2 headed dog can't hunt.
The Roman Church must of necessity put it's traditions above scripture. One must prevail, and if it was scripture, Roman doctrine would collapse.

Point 3 was simply to illustrate the blasphemy that was a characteristic of the whore. Certainly habitually placing mans doctrine at or above the word of God qualifies as blasphemy. And the RCC has a 1700 year history of it.

As I said before I am not trying to make a conclusive case for the RCC being THE whore of babylon. But given what we know of its past and its present actions would it not be fair to at least consider this point?

[Peter]

As I said before I am not trying to make a conclusive case for the RCC being THE whore of babylon. But given what we know of its past and its present actions would it not be fair to at least consider this point?

I've been agreeing and reinforcing. Point three perhaps being the most damning thing the church does as the Pharisees were rebuked for. As I said earlier, if they didn't put tradition above scripture, then their traditions would collapse.

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 Many agree.

[resistingrexmundi]

Apologies then for the misunderstanding. Know that I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I applaud your efforts here to contend the faith and I like the fact that nothing is held back. Jesus may have been a pacifist but make no mistake he is a spiritual warrior and made no qualms about calling anyone out if they were leading others astray. In this regard I feel most Christians lack fortitude and so I am glad to see that their are others out there who do not.

God bless you Peter

[Peter]

Apologies then for the misunderstanding. Know that I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I applaud your efforts here to contend the faith and I like the fact that nothing is held back. Jesus may have been a pacifist but make no mistake he is a spiritual warrior and made no qualms about calling anyone out if they were leading others astray. In this regard I feel most Christians lack fortitude and so I am glad to see that their are others out there who do not.

God bless you Peter

Thank you for the encouragement bro.
I try to be careful to avoid dividing the body of Christ - at least from other than conspicuous untruth.
That's the nice thing about ministry to Muslims. It can't get more black and white when the very basis of a religion is antichrist, and greatest and only unpardonable sin is committed if one confesses that Jesus is the Son of God.
Denying that Jesus died on the cross, let alone to save us. The PERFECT OPPOSITE. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0 The only anti-another-religion, religion. I exhausted myself for almost 2 years trying to show this to an eschatologically blind church, and found myself increasingly taking it to the Muslims, and increasingly through the Gospel. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=446.0

Chiniquy's books (stickypinned in this section) got me a little sidetracked and for some weeks has also occupied maybe 10% of my time. Also "Understanding Roman Catholicism" and "The Roman Church at the Bar of History". Most Roman Catholics are so bible ignorant that they don't have a clue, so we can pray that they may be saved through their ignorance (no law no transgression). Though today the internet is opening their eyes just as it is Muslims. My best friend who is an Irish Catholic may be in the process of overcoming that church. I have given him a hard copy of "50 years in the Roman Church" (though I hadn't read it myself before the gift, and may have gone for something a little less intense) followed the other evening by "Pagan Christianity". He kind of opened the door when he asked me if I had read anything by the Lutheran pastor that converted to Roman Catholicism (name escapes me).

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

And our boys in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't even allowed to pass out bibles or tracts in this purely spiritual war.
The greatest generation is nearly gone. The world stands at the edge of a phony money precipitated, economic abyss, that holds the promise of having every city in this global economic Babylon engulfed in flames - burning.

[resistingrexmundi]

I have read parts of Chiniquy's book up here and it affirms every misgiving I have always had regarding that misguided "church". I am currently reading John MacArthur's book "The Jesus You Can't Ignore" . I haven't read it all and so I am reluctant to recommend it as of yet. But so far it is sound and a good read. It deals mainly with the way Christians are rolling over and making concessions in the name of goodwill. While we should, to the best of our abilities, try to live peacefully with those around us at no time should we ever make concessions of faith or treat the bible as anything less than it is, The Word of God. This isn't meant to give anyone free licence to attack or coerce others into belief (as any true Christian will know) but rather to give us a firm and unshakeable foundation to build the rest of our lives. The fact is Muslims practice their faith according to their book and I will practice mine according to God's book and no matter what happens I will not be silent until I go to be with my Father.

Again God bless

[Peter]

I have read parts of Chiniquy's book up here and it affirms every misgiving I have always had regarding that misguided "church". I am currently reading John MacArthur's book "The Jesus You Can't Ignore" . I haven't read it all and so I am reluctant to recommend it as of yet. But so far it is sound and a good read. It deals mainly with the way Christians are rolling over and making concessions.......

Be comforted by knowing it was prophesied:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

a falling away
New Testament Greek Definition:
646 apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f
AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

....... in the name of goodwill. While we should, to the best of our abilities, try to live peacefully with those around us at no time should we ever make concessions of faith or treat the bible as anything less than it is, The Word of God. This isn't meant to give anyone free licence to attack or coerce others into belief (as any true Christian will know) but rather to give us a firm and unshakeable foundation to build the rest of our lives. The fact is Muslims practice their faith according to their book and I will practice mine according to God's book and no matter what happens I will not be silent until I go to be with my Father.

Again God bless

Amen bro.

[Peter]

Just one example of the consequences of the result of the pope's actions.
http://www.youtube.com/user/lslamIsTheTruth

[Peter]

This is a repeat of the same post on the "Second Vatican Council on Islam" thread.
If you're going to comment please comment on the identical version, at this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=600.msg11109#msg11109

Does doctrine matter?

I ran into a video comment on a Muslim's video that had received 22 thumbs-up likely 100% from Muslims. They applaud his deception, because it helps them believe Muhammad's false religion, is true.
____________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORLJDaJrc1g
i am catholic but i believe in the qur'an also, inshallah brothers and sisters
nick(masked ID) 2 weeks ago 22
___________________

I quoted from his video comment and sent it in a PM
_____________________

8-8 pete quoting nick

"i am catholic but i believe in the qur'an also..." Your choice, your fate.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear... FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT

watch?v=ujUOZyrnewE
watch?v=8lEro81ygXQ
_________________

8-8 nick

that video is talking about the choice christians/muslims have to face, it talks about dajjal the false prophet and it will talk about people claiming to be prophets to be decieved by satan and his angels, i am aware that there are blurry lines between what i have said but from whom i have talked to (muslims and christians) and reading the bible and qur'an they both have similarities in them history will prove this books o be relevent tword each other
the thing is that since the 12 apostles were hunted down and murderd peope gave in to polythiestic faiths and when th same angel came to mary with the news of chris that angel also revealed the qur'an to muhammed so i belive in christ and i believe in islam, but thank you for your information.

8-8 nick

here is a video of a little more detail of what my post means.
http://youtu.be/0S_A9ERJWN0
_____________________

8-9

[[[[that video is talking about the choice christians/muslims have to face, it talks about dajjal the false prophet .......]]]]]

Muhammad rejected the whole subject of the Gospel, so the Quran is a lie. For a Christian to receive any part of its fables and lies is to condemn oneself. Muhammad got his rejection of the crucifixion by Simon Magnus or Simon the Magician known as the "father of heresies" by our early church fathers. Muhammad got the doctrine through his wife Khadijah's cousin Waraqa who was an occult Gnostic Ebionite priest.

sent with "Sabians..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR3Bla8YwbU

8-9

Worse than that Muhammad is revealed through THEIR OWN BOOKS as an imperialistic conquering, mass murdering, prisoner raping thief. THIS CANNOT BE DENIED.
The beheading of the Banu Qurayza young Jewish farm boys, their dads and grandpas, and rape of their little sisters, moms and grandmas, and theft of all their property, is one of the proudest moments in Islamic history to fundamental Muslims THAT GET Islam.

THE false prophet Muhammad was one of the blackest hearted moral reprobates in the history of mankind. He and his boys stole everything they lived on. That's why they had to conquer more and more territory, all the way up to France and Austria.

jihad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9FYYo5EINU

[[[[[....... and it will talk about people claiming to be prophets to be decieved by satan and his angels, i am aware that there are blurry lines between what i have said ......]]]]

This couldn't be more false. To a CHRISTIAN there is crystal clarity. READ IT AGAIN.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear... FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT

When you join them you will be judged on that basis.
Worse than that, your pluralism encourages them to remain on their self-destructive path.
Get your head out of the clouds and into the Gospel.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath BOTH the Father AND THE SON.

1John 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.

Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be FALSE TEACHERS among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, AND BRING UPON THEMSELVES SWIFT DESTRUCTION.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Surah 4:157 That THEY SAID (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST JESUS the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

Your choice, your fate.
If they were prostrating themselves to a golden calf instead of the Quraish pagans black stone idol in Mecca would you still sit around and sing kumbaya with them?

black stone veneration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGyWs__Y-rU

[[[...i am aware that there are blurry lines between what i have said but from whom i have talked to (muslims and christians) and reading the bible and qur'an they both have similarities in them history will prove this books o be relevent tword each other ......]]]]

This is A LIE from straight out of the pit of hell. You need to educate yourself. There is NOT A SINGLE SHRED of historical or archaeological EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca EVER EVEN EXISTED before the 4TH CENTURY AD.
GOOGLE IT. Visit my site here
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

This means Islamic so-called "tradition" is nothing more than a pack of lies that were all created and put to the pen in the 7th and 8th century AD. THERE IS NO HISTORY.
In fact what they are taught is a GEOGRAPHICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.

Straight out of the pit of hell from the FATHER OF LIES.

paran mecca hagar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh5E--IlCKk

[[[[[........the thing is that since the 12 apostles were hunted down and murderd .......]]]]

By people just like Muhammad's follower's rape, pillage and plunder all the way up to France and Austria. With 2 million killed - by TRUE MUSLIMS that DO AS MUHAMMAD DID - in the Sudan alone, most of them our brethren.

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and one of their heads left on the steps of a Church. The note left behind reads: "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

With over 17,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

TRUE MUSLIMS doing what they can to follow in the footsteps of one of the most consummate terrorists in the history of mankind.

Sura 8:12 I WILL INSTILL TERROR into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Surah 9.29 FIGHT THOSE who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Tabari VI:133 "We pledge our allegiance to you and we shall defend you as we would our womenfolk. Administer the oath of allegiance to us, Messenger of Allah, for we are men of war possessing arms and coats of mail."
Ishaq:204/ Tabari VI:134 "'Men of the Khazraj, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man.' 'Yes,' they answered. 'In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging ourselves to WAGE WAR AGAINST ALL MANKIND.'"

Noble Qur'an:2:190 Footnote: Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm

PEACEFUL MUSLIMS ARE APOSTATE!

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

jihad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9FYYo5EINU

[[[[...... gave in to polythiestic faiths and when th same angel came to mary with the news of chris that angel also revealed the qur'an to muhammed ........]]]]

PURE BLASPHEMY. If the mass murdering, child doing, prisoner raping, thief Muhammad was a true prophet, then ALL OF THE PROPHETS and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind ARE FALSE.

This from their most highly respected and considered divinely inspired Hadith - Bukhari

Bukhari:V5B59N448 "They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sa'd to give the verdict. Sad said, 'I give my judgment that their men should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed.'"

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

[[[[......... so i belive in christ and i believe in islam, but thank you for your information.]]]]]

Islam cannot even be considered a religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujUOZyrnewE
____________________________

8-8

here is a video of a little more detail of what my post means.
http://youtu.be/0S_A9ERJWN0
__________________________

[[[[here is a video of a little more detail of what my post means.
http://youtu.be/0S_A9ERJWN0]]]]]

That is a pack of pure filthy lies, by a self-admitted disciple of Ahmed Deedat, the most consummate Greek sophist styled entertainer and lying antichrist and hero of Satan.

Naik rejects the hundreds of verses in the Gospel that declare the unique relationship between Jesus Christ THE Son of God and His Father.
Christians are only sons of God.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=611.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=610.0

Mary conceived Jesus by the direct will of God. If she didn't begat the Son of God, then whose son did she begat?

begat past tense of be·get (Verb)
1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) Bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
2. Give rise to; bring about.

The only evidence Naik can present to support his stupidity is parroting Satan's lies of a 7th century SW Arabian desert dwelling illiterate reprobate, to make his ridiculous case.

The so-called scholars he mentions were responsible for one of the new-age bible versions, which also lie.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/new_age_bible_versions.htm

That Jesus is the begotten Son of God is declared in many verses, not just one.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=227.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=612.0

We have a whole forum section that exposes these Islamist lies and Greek sophist styled deception.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0

When were you born again, my friend?

deedat on antichrist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDslsWDzPIc
________________________

8-10 nick

good god! thats a lot of messages but i stick to my belieffs and i will not fource you to agree with me
_______________________

[[[[good god! thats a lot of messages but i stick to my belieffs and i will not fource you to agree with me]]]]

That's silly. Nobody can force anybody to believe anything.
I just wanted you to have FULL KNOWLEDGE that Muhammad's followers are required to DENY the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!

1John 2:22 ...HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER

That you approve of their antichrist book and encourage them to remain on their path places you among them.
Now you will be judged having full knowledge, rather than your former ignorance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCE_sti-uZc

If you're going to comment please comment on the identical version, at this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=600.msg11109#msg11109

[Peter]

Recently I was in a Roman church forum where, to my surprise, I found folks that call themselves Christians, defending Islam. But then they also had a poll on the question "Should Heretics Be Burned? in which there were 6 yeas and 44 neighs (over 13% of respondents in favor of burning heretics).

I just clicked on the link and found, that rather than being convicted by the poll, the numbers have actually gone the other way. Almost 22% - 20 of that forum's members who voted - are in favor of burning heretics.

    Yes (20 votes [21.98%])

    No (71 votes [78.02%])