Chat with formy

[Peter]

Hi formy and welcome to the forum!

Christians believe that God revealed Himself over 1600 years through all of the prophets and witnesses that He chose to use for this purpose. God's people have followed His Word through two covenants for 3500 years. Jews and Christians believe the Old Testament to be the inerrant Word of God. It details the everlasting covenant that God has with His chosen people the Jews. Within that Old Testament the prophet Jeremiah prophesied a new covenant, that was fulfilled in Jesus Christ as detailed through all of the prophets and witnesses in the New Testament. That new covenant included Gentiles like you and I in God's plan of salvation. As revealed in both covenants blood sacrifice atones for sin. The whole subject of the new covenant is the shed blood of Jesus Christ that saves those who have faith in that blood from sin.

Mat 26:28  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

According to the Word of God Mohammed was, and taught, the exact opposite of that revealed through Jesus Christ and all of His new covenant witnesses.

Surah 4.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Mohammed even curses God's people

Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

[formy]

Hello and thank you, first let me ask you, what's the first religion ever existed on Earth?

[Peter]

Hello and thank you, first let me ask you, what's the first religion ever existed on Earth?

If you mean that followed God, it is Judaism.

[formy]

Hello and thank you, first let me ask you, what's the first religion ever existed on Earth?

If you mean that followed God, it is Judaism.

And when did Judaism start?

[Peter]

Hello and thank you, first let me ask you, what's the first religion ever existed on Earth?

If you mean that followed God, it is Judaism.

And when did Judaism start?

As indicated in the OP around 3500 years ago.

When did Mohammed's religion start?

[formy]

Hello and thank you, first let me ask you, what's the first religion ever existed on Earth?

If you mean that followed God, it is Judaism.

And when did Judaism start?

As indicated in the OP around 3500 years ago.

When did Mohammed's religion start?

What's Noah's religion?

Islam is not Mohammed's religion, it's God's religion.

[Peter]

Hello and thank you, first let me ask you, what's the first religion ever existed on Earth?

If you mean that followed God, it is Judaism.

And when did Judaism start?

As indicated in the OP around 3500 years ago.

When did Mohammed's religion start?

What's Noah's religion?

Noah didn't have a religion. He followed direct orders from God.

Islam is not Mohammed's religion, it's God's religion.

I understand what you were taught but your claim is beyond difficulty to support.
Not a single witness ever heard Allah or Gabriel's voice give Mohammed one of his "revelations".
Mohammed never performed a single miracle.
The "prophet" Mohammed had no fulfilled prophecy.
Even Mohammed believed it was jinn that met him in the cave until his wife talked him out of it.

But worse than all that Mohammed taught the exact opposite of that revealed through the Gospel.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0

One must choose, my friend. Between the 1600 year record of God to mankind through all of His prophets and witnesses, or the stand-alone 23 year 7th century record of Mohammed.

Why do you think God would reveal the exact opposite of His record, over 500 years after that record was closed, through a single 7th century man whose own book reveals him as an unrepentant thief?

8 - AL-ANFAL (SPOILS OF WAR, BOOTY)
That even details Mohammed's 1/5 share - just like a Mafia Don - of the property stolen from others through imperialistic conquest.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/008.qmt.html

That property even including capturing and sexually enslaving girls and women - married and unmarried - as part of the spoils of war.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

[formy]

Noah didn't have a religion. He followed direct orders from God.

How did he have no religion is he an atheist or agnostic? he must followed a religion if he worshiped God.

[Peter]

Noah didn't have a religion. He followed direct orders from God.

How did he have no religion is he an atheist or agnostic? he must followed a religion if he worshiped God.

You seem to be suggesting that one has to have a religion in order to follow God.
If you know what Noah's religion was, then please share it with us. Otherwise why not move on to the second part of that post.

[formy]

Noah like Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jeses. was a submitter to God aka a Muslim, that was his religion.

[Peter]

Noah like Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jeses. was a submitter to God aka a Muslim, that was his religion.

Were the first 4 mentioned submitted to God? Yes. However in Jesus' case He was God incarnate that was manifest as a man in the flesh on earth for a time. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0

However the term Muslim wasn't around until the 7th century (if not much later than that as the Arabic language changed). Now if you respond to the second part of the post we can begin to understand just who Mohammed and Muslims are submitted to. Let me help.

We can see that thieves will not inherit the kingdom of God
1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators,...10 Nor thieves

Yet Mohammed revealed Himself as an unrepentant thief. Even if one were to claim that the bible is corrupt, would one then believe that thieves would inherit the kingdom of God?

[formy]

Noah like Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jeses. was a submitter to God aka a Muslim, that was his religion.

Were the first 4 mentioned submitted to God? Yes. However in Jesus' case He was God incarnate that was manifest as a man in the flesh on earth for a time. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0

However the term Muslim wasn't around until the 7th century (if not much later than that as the Arabic language changed). Now if you respond to the second part of the post we can begin to understand just who Mohammed and Muslims are submitted to.

You still didn't name Noah's religion.

also didn't Jesus pray worship and fell down on his head to bow to God? isn't that submission?

[Peter]

Noah like Adam, Abraham, Moses and Jeses. was a submitter to God aka a Muslim, that was his religion.

Were the first 4 mentioned submitted to God? Yes. However in Jesus' case He was God incarnate that was manifest as a man in the flesh on earth for a time. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0

However the term Muslim wasn't around until the 7th century (if not much later than that as the Arabic language changed). Now if you respond to the second part of the post we can begin to understand just who Mohammed and Muslims are submitted to.

You still didn't name Noah's religion.

That's because Noah followed no institutional religion. He followed God's direct instructions.
But you've got much bigger fish to fry that trying to assign a specific definition of thousands of years ago to the term "religion", as we see below.

also didn't Jesus pray worship and fell down on his head to bow to God? isn't that submission?

There are instances of Jesus doing that, and Christians do bow and kneel. But being truly submitted to God we understand through the Word of God, and a personal relationship, that there is no required form of specific physical or verbal prayer. It's about relationship as opposed to ritual.
However we are instructed specifically how not to pray.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

See my friend? Mohammed's religion is again revealed as being the exact opposite.
What is Mohammed's salat? Isn't it 495 repetitions, of the same 3 phrases, day after day? Or is it 825 repetitions of the same 5 phrases?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0


Now why don't you tell me why it is that you believe God would reverse his 1600 year record through a 7th century thief.
We can see (and a reasonable person could even guess) that thieves will not inherit the kingdom of God, which is confirmed by God's Word.

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators,...10 Nor thieves

Yet Mohammed revealed Himself as an unrepentant thief.
Even if one were to claim that the bible is corrupt does that mean that one would then believe that thieves would inherit the kingdom of God?

[formy]

Before we jump to other points lets finish our first points, so you agree that Noah had a religion, which means Judaism is not the first religion on earth.

and you also agree that Jesus fully submitted to God.

[Peter]

Before we jump to other points lets finish our first points, so you agree that Noah had a religion, which means Judaism is not the first religion on earth.

and you also agree that Jesus fully submitted to God.

The agreement you suggest I have with you is incorrect. You need to reread my answers on both counts.

Additionally you are wasting words on the term "religion" that is widely and variously defined. It is generally understood to be an institutionalized system of belief/worship held by a group.
The term does not apply to Noah as he was spoken to directly by God, and did not follow a religion, because there wasn't one established for him to follow.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=define+religion&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-832

Silly word games won't change the Quran or the historical realities of Islam and it's prophet.
So please stop wasting time and move along with your point, which will be rendered moot, until you can show us why it is that anyone should believe that Mohammed was submitted to God.

Based on the Word of God it is obvious that Mohammed could not possibly have been submitted to God because he was an unrepentant thief, as well as for a whole host of other reasons, including that his religion is the exact opposite of that revealed in the Word of God. The host of other reasons we will explore, as his message and character (as bequeathed to us by your own books) are further revealed.

Exd 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Your limited understanding of the term religion, that you are trying to apply to Noah, springs from a religion that was invented in the 7th century by a false prophet named Mohammed.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

But Mohammed didn't even bother with the sheep's clothing but rather even came as a transparent ravening wolf.
Your whole religion and belief system, is based on the unwitnessed "revelations", of a single man, that is revealed through his own book as an unrepentant thief.

Noah was not a thief. Nor did God tell him that stealing the property of others was acceptable.

You need to explain why you think God would reverse his 1600 year record, through an unrepentant thief, and even offer a whole chapter regarding Mohammed's god sanctioning the theft of the property of others, and then we can move on to discussion of more of your stand-alone prophet's attributes.

[formy]

I don't care what is today's definition of religion, God always had a religion to worship him, Adam, Noah and Abraham all of them had religions to worship God. the first religion on earth was the true religion while the second religion was paganism (Noah's people before the flood), that's why Christianity is flawed. part of it's holy book is the corrupted Tanakah which was corrupted long time ago by Jews.


Jesus was unconscious baby who needed to eat, drink like his mother and like other humans he worshiped God and submitted to him, these are signs to Christians yet they still worship him.


Now you make nonsensical statements about Muhammad without proving it.

[Peter]

I don't care what is today's definition of religion, God always had a religion to worship him, Adam, Noah and Abraham all of them had religions to worship God.

The religions were established gradually through the dictates God gave. Like to the Jews to build the tabernacle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Temple
 as per God's instructions,
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=tabernacle&t=KJV&sf=5
whose alter was for the sacrifice of animals to atone for sin through their shed blood.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=atonement&t=KJV&sf=5
 Their religion continued to develop through God's continuing direct instruction.

the first religion on earth was the true religion while the second religion was paganism (Noah's people before the flood), that's why Christianity is flawed. part of it's holy book is the corrupted Tanakah which was corrupted long time ago by Jews.

So then you must believe, as I, that your prophet was a liar. He recited the following sura in the 7TH CENTURY after the Tanach and the Gospel had been copied tens of thousands of times in every popular language known to man.

Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), KEPT PURE AND HOLY,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.

Do you really think all those scriptures in all those languages were then erased (like the Quran burnings) AFTER the 7th century, and somehow the entire text of the Gospel changed to become the exact opposite of what it was?
That would be a preposterous stand to take, wouldn't it.

Further, you are apparently completely ignorant to Hebrew scribal methodology.
"First of all, biblical scrolls were written on the inside only to prevent any smudging or smearing that might lead to a misreading of the text. When being copied -- besides many parallel readings -- the copy was compared with the original in every way humanly possible.
The words in each column were counted and then the letters. The first, last, and middle letter and word in each column had to be identical to the original. If the number of words or the number of letters of the copy differed from the original, the copy was destroyed. Then they counted the words and letters in the whole document. They divided the document into quarters and into eighths. The first, last and middle letter in each section had to be the same. The number of words and the number of letters in each section had to be the same.  The middle word and the middle letter in each section had to be the same, and they had to be the same for the whole document. If not, the copy was destroyed. Not corrected, but destroyed!"
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/bible_manuscript_errors_.htm

Compare that to the Quran that had random differing copies all over the place so that it had to be collected up and burned on two separate occasions. Once after Uthman's editing as well as under Bakr. Shiites still believe that 25% of the Quran was lost and it wouldn't surprise me if they are right. Consider the example of the stoning verses that Aisha said the goats ate.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0
Do you really believe that is how God would preserve His Word?

Jesus was unconscious baby who needed to eat, drink like his mother and like other humans he worshiped God and submitted to him, these are signs to Christians yet they still worship him.

Jesus and God are coexistent. Jesus is the way God chose to reveal Himself to us, to help us understand God through our limited human capacity to understand. Jesus was revealed to us as a man in the flesh to provide a perfect and sinless example for us. Christians worship in Jesus name because He is God. Here is what He said after He was crucified and resurrected from the dead

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Now you make nonsensical statements about Muhammad without proving it.

I proved Mohammed was a thief in the very first post in which I mentioned it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=873.msg3507#msg3507

"8 - AL-ANFAL (SPOILS OF WAR, BOOTY)
That even details Mohammed's 1/5 share - just like a Mafia Don - of the property stolen from others through imperialistic conquest.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/008.qmt.html "

Mohammed was far worse than a thief. I stopped at the lightest charge of thief so you could answer to it before we explore his character further.
How was Mohammed not a thief when a whole chapter in the Quran discusses he and his boys theft of the property of others, and even details Mohammed's 1/5 cut of all the loot, including women and girls to sexually enslave and/or sell?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

[formy]

The religions were established gradually through the dictates God gave. Like to the Jews to build the tabernacle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Temple
 as per God's instructions,
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=tabernacle&t=KJV&sf=5
whose alter was for the sacrifice of animals to atone for sin through their shed blood.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=atonement&t=KJV&sf=5
 Their religion continued to develop through God's continuing direct instruction.

Anyway Judaism is not the first religion.

So then you must believe, as I, that your prophet was a liar. He recited the following sura in the 7TH CENTURY after the Tanach and the Gospel had been copied tens of thousands of times in every popular language known to man.

Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), KEPT PURE AND HOLY,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.

This verse doesn't talk about Gospel or Torah it talks about Qur'an. The story that was mentioned in start of the surah is only mentioned in the Qur'an. But, even tho the Gospel and Torah was corrupt by people the original ones are still saved in the heavens.

Further, you are apparently completely ignorant to Hebrew scribal methodology.
"First of all, biblical scrolls were written on the inside only to prevent any smudging or smearing that might lead to a misreading of the text. When being copied -- besides many parallel readings -- the copy was compared with the original in every way humanly possible.
The words in each column were counted and then the letters. The first, last, and middle letter and word in each column had to be identical to the original. If the number of words or the number of letters of the copy differed from the original, the copy was destroyed. Then they counted the words and letters in the whole document. They divided the document into quarters and into eighths. The first, last and middle letter in each section had to be the same. The number of words and the number of letters in each section had to be the same.  The middle word and the middle letter in each section had to be the same, and they had to be the same for the whole document. If not, the copy was destroyed. Not corrected, but destroyed!"

Yeah right, that's why we have hundreds of kinds of Bibles, the Jews killed many of their own Prophets they followed false ones and they rejected one of their most important ones Jesus, why should I follow their corrupt vision of Torah, even today many Jews also share this belief(Torah being corrupt)

Compare that to the Quran that had random differing copies all over the place so that it had to be collected up and burned on two separate occasions. Once after Uthman's editing as well as under Bakr. Shiites still believe that 25% of the Quran was lost and it wouldn't surprise me if they are right. Consider the example of the stoning verses that Aisha said the goats ate.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0
Do you really believe that is how God would preserve His Word?

Quran is memorized by millions of people it has only 1 copy, about Shia they have different beliefs some of them believe that Ali is God came to save humans(like Christians with Jesus) Shia create this myth that 75% of Quran is lost because Qur'an never mentioned how Ali is important anyway, today Shia claim they never said that Qur'an is not complete.

Jesus and God are coexistent. Jesus is the way God chose to reveal Himself to us, to help us understand God through our limited human capacity to understand. Jesus was revealed to us as a man in the flesh to provide a perfect and sinless example for us. Christians worship in Jesus name because He is God. Here is what He said after He was crucified and resurrected from the dead

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Jesus never said that, I'll show you how flawed is the Gospel. if you notice  "all power is given into me" if he is God then why power is given to him? doesn't he own all power already?

you see how human made Gospel is flawed.

I proved Mohammed was a thief in the very first post in which I mentioned it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=873.msg3507#msg3507

"8 - AL-ANFAL (SPOILS OF WAR, BOOTY)
That even details Mohammed's 1/5 share - just like a Mafia Don - of the property stolen from others through imperialistic conquest.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/008.qmt.html "

Mohammed was far worse than a thief. I stopped at the lightest charge of thief so you could answer to it before we explore his character further.
How was Mohammed not a thief when a whole chapter in the Quran discusses he and his boys theft of the property of others, and even details Mohammed's 1/5 cut of all the loot, including women and girls to sexually enslave and/or sell?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

That's a false accusation, in battle when Muslims win and the enemy leave their stuff and escape 80% of the booty goes to the Muslim fighters and 20% goes to Allah, his Prophet, the poor, relatives, wayfarer and the orphan.

And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.

[Peter]

The religions were established gradually through the dictates God gave. Like to the Jews to build the tabernacle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Temple
 as per God's instructions,
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=tabernacle&t=KJV&sf=5
whose alter was for the sacrifice of animals to atone for sin through their shed blood.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=atonement&t=KJV&sf=5
 Their religion continued to develop through God's continuing direct instruction.

Anyway Judaism is not the first religion.

So then you must believe, as I, that your prophet was a liar. He recited the following sura in the 7TH CENTURY after the Tanach and the Gospel had been copied tens of thousands of times in every popular language known to man.

Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), KEPT PURE AND HOLY,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.

This verse doesn't talk about Gospel or Torah it talks about Qur'an.

But that's false as even you should know since there was no written Quran when Mohammed recited that sura. Or when he recited these.

Sura 5:47 Let the PEOPLE OF THE GOSPEL JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH HATH REVEALED THEREIN. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.                                    

Sura 5:68 Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye STAND FAST BY the Law, THE GOSPEL, and ALL THE REVELATION that has come to you from YOUR Lord."

He even instructed his own followers to believe in the books that came before himself. Those are the same books that had been translated tens of thousands of times by the 7th century.

Sura 4:136 O ye who believe! BELIEVE IN Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE SENT TO THOSE BEFORE (HIM). ANY WHO DENIETH Allah, His angels, HIS BOOKS, HIS MESSENGERS, and the Day of Judgment, HATH GONE FAR, FAR ASTRAY.

What we see is the massive confusion of Mohammed's "revelations" that IS the Quran. That is why a whopping 71 out of only 114 suras are subject to nullification through abrogation (naskh). Why not just be honest about it formy? (assuming that you knew about naskh)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

[Peter]

Yeah right, that's why we have hundreds of kinds of Bibles,.....

The reason for some somewhat compromised modern bible versions, is that men will be men. God, and His Word have been under attack since the first century as we can also see in your testimony here.
Blessedly discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in the late 1940's confirm that even a book (Daniel scroll) that can be positively dated to several hundred years BC, demonstrated that the Word of God has been handed down to us very much intact.

...... the Jews killed many of their own Prophets they followed false ones......

Men will be men. Just like you have to reject all of the prophets and witnesses of God as revealed through God's 1600 year record, to follow the false prophet Mohammed's 23 year 7th century record.

....... and they rejected one of their most important ones Jesus,.....

The Gospel indicates that God Himself blinded some of the Jews to the Gospel (so that they couldn't sin against it). You are not a Jew but a Gentile, my friend. You are without excuse for rejecting the Gospel and following a 7th century murdering thief.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=36.0

...... why should I follow their corrupt vision of Torah, even today many Jews also share this belief(Torah being corrupt)

Compare that to the Quran that had random differing copies all over the place so that it had to be collected up and burned on two separate occasions. Once after Uthman's editing as well as under Bakr. Shiites still believe that 25% of the Quran was lost and it wouldn't surprise me if they are right. Consider the example of the stoning verses that Aisha said the goats ate.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0
Do you really believe that is how God would preserve His Word?

Quran is memorized by millions of people it has only 1 copy, about Shia they have different beliefs some of them believe that Ali is God came to save humans(like Christians with Jesus) Shia create this myth that 75% of Quran is lost because Qur'an never mentioned how Ali is important anyway, today Shia claim they never said that Qur'an is not complete.

This is, of course, why Shiite and Sunni antichrists murder each other as infidels and apostates. With almost one million killed in their mutual murder in the Iran/Iraq war alone, with two million wounded. Let alone the rest of the millions of Muslims murdered by Muslims over the last 1400 years.

[formy]

Qur'an was there long time before Islam and long time before earth was created it was only revealed to Prophet Muhammad.

Ofc we Muslims have to believe in the holy books, its part of the 6 pillars of faith, however the bible in the hand of Jews and Christians is not what the one I believe in but a corrupt vision of it.

and in my post I showed you how the Gospel is flawed.

[Peter]

Jesus and God are coexistent. Jesus is the way God chose to reveal Himself to us, to help us understand God through our limited human capacity to understand. Jesus was revealed to us as a man in the flesh to provide a perfect and sinless example for us. Christians worship in Jesus name because He is God. Here is what He said after He was crucified and resurrected from the dead

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Jesus never said that, I'll show you how flawed is the Gospel. if you notice  "all power is given into me" if he is God then why power is given to him? doesn't he own all power already?

Not as He was revealed as a man in the flesh before His crucifixion.

you see how human made Gospel is flawed.

Not at all. Did the Gospel of Mark end with the first verse?
Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Of course not. What we find is the steady progression of revelation of God to us over 1600 years. Did the Old Testament end with the first verse of Genesis?

I proved Mohammed was a thief in the very first post in which I mentioned it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=873.msg3507#msg3507

"8 - AL-ANFAL (SPOILS OF WAR, BOOTY)
That even details Mohammed's 1/5 share - just like a Mafia Don - of the property stolen from others through imperialistic conquest.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/008.qmt.html "

Mohammed was far worse than a thief. I stopped at the lightest charge of thief so you could answer to it before we explore his character further.
How was Mohammed not a thief when a whole chapter in the Quran discusses he and his boys theft of the property of others, and even details Mohammed's 1/5 cut of all the loot, including women and girls to sexually enslave and/or sell?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

That's a false accusation, in battle when Muslims win and the enemy leave their stuff and escape 80% of the booty goes to the Muslim fighters and 20% goes to Allah, his Prophet, the poor, relatives, wayfarer and the orphan.

That's right. Mohammed bought people's favor with property that he stole from others, just like a Mafia Don.
Look at Mafia boss "teflon" John Gotti. The people in Gotti's neighborhood that were immoral enough to receive the property that he gave them, that he stole from others, loved him even though they knew he was a murderous thief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gotti

What Mohammed did with the property he stole from others in no way absolves him of the crime.

Exd 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

How do you suppose he was able to support all those wives, and concubines to fornicate with, when he never worked a day in his life?

[Peter]

Qur'an was there long time before Islam and long time before earth was created it was only revealed to Prophet Muhammad.

The problem with that is that you take Mohammed's sole word for it.
Can you see the difficulty with your rejection of all the prophets and witnesses as they are revealed through the 1600 year record of God's Word, to take Mohammed's direct opposite word?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0

In the beginning was the Word, as you indicate, but it wasn't Mohammed's 23 year record. Why not read some of the true record, of the one true God? Simply click on the following link.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

Ofc we Muslims have to believe in the holy books, its part of the 6 pillars of faith, however the bible in the hand of Jews and Christians is not what the one I believe in but a corrupt vision of it.

and in my post I showed you how the Gospel is flawed.

Surely you can see how your rejection of the dozens of prophets, and loads of witnesses - as revealed through God's Word, that His people have followed through two covenants for the last 3500 years - to follow the 23 year 7th century record of a murdering thief, should take much more than a leap of faith.

[Peter]

And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,......

Did Allah ever show up to collect his share? Of course not. His share of women and girls captured and sold as sex slaves was spent on weapons to continue Mohammed's rape, pillage and plunder of imperialistic conquest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI
Attacking peaceful Jewish farming villages, beheading the men and boys, then stealing their property and pressing their women and girls into sexual servitude.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=856.0

......- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.[/i]

[formy]

I think we can't continue on this as you disrespect my most beloved Prophet, your immature ignorance is showing, anyway I'm leaving this place insulting my Prophet is greater then insulting my own father and mother.

Just to point out your ignorance, Jews in Madina worked in business and loans, not farming.