The Love of God

[Peter]

Muhammad challenged: Sura 2:23 And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

Let's see what we can find when we call on witnesses from over five centuries before Muhammad:

(KJV) 1 John 4:4 ..... Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.    5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.    6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.    7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.    8  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.    10  Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.    11  Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.    12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.    13  Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.    14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.    15  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.    16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.    17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.    18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.    19  We love him, because he first loved us.    20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?    21  And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm#john_4

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" (video) (video) Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 - Sunna: Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985) USC had to remove this "inspired" Islamic hadith as hate speech, but does not repudiate it).

5.59 Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?" 60 Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NvybWC6qic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da77TBGm6ak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbHVEGnYD8

[Peter]

AnnaMuslim, I'll restore your post when you stop ignoring replies to your posts. Start here.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.msg6376#msg6376

[JC_Believer]

The Love of God is expressed by giving, by laying down our lives for others.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that He GAVE His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jesus laid down His life for others and it pleased God. 

Php 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above EVERY name:
Php 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11  And that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God didn't send Jesus to condemn the world but rather, that they might be saved and receive eternal life through Him.  It's not God's will to KILL people.  He wants them to live through Jesus Christ.   Jesus told the disciples that "he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword", and he told them to put up their swords.  Murder and war are all attributes of the devil.  Jesus said to the self-righteous religious leaders who thought themselves better and above others,

Joh_8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." 

God's Word is a witness against Muhammad's challenge!  Jesus was a witness against it.  Jesus is not only a witness against it but He been given the Name above ALL names, including Allah or Muhammad.  He demonstrated God's love and Muhammad demonstrated his father the devil's lust by advocating murder and lying.  God is the only God of love because God is love.  Anything or anyone contrary to that is a witness against themselves.

God's love is to be shown to others by us.  We lay our lives down for the brethren.  We are witnesses of the love of God.  We are not called to KILL them.  We are called to lead them to Jesus, to  lead them to love,  to lead them to God, lead them to Life! 

1Jn_5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 

[PeteWaldo]

Indeed JC and welcome to the forum!
Jesus gave us the tools we need to fight this final battle:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/war_on_terror.htm#three_prongs

But then I also believe it's Christian to defend the defenseless.

[JC_Believer]

Tools indeed and the Love of God is the greatest!  Love never fails!  Love shall cover the multitude of sins!  Love is the fulfilling of all the law!  Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for his friends!  This is not a suicide command where you kill others, along with yourself, to selfishly gain a higher place in paradise but rather a dying to yourself and your own desires for the advantage of others.

1Co 13:3  I may even give away all that I have and give up my body to be burned. But if I don't have love, none of these things will help me. 
1Co 13:4  Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn't jealous. It doesn't sing its own praises. It isn't arrogant. 
1Co 13:5  It isn't rude. It doesn't think about itself. It isn't irritable. It doesn't keep track of wrongs. 
1Co 13:6  It isn't happy when injustice is done, but it is happy with the truth. 
1Co 13:7  Love never stops being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping, never gives up. 
1Co 13:8  Love never comes to an end.

God is love and the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit when we are born again, born from above, born of God!

[PeteWaldo]

This is not a suicide command where you kill others, along with yourself, to selfishly gain a higher place in paradise but rather a dying to yourself and your own desires for the advantage of others.

Yet Muhammadans don't seem to possess the capacity to understand the difference.
A Christian martyr would say "I will die for what I believe in" who is sacrificed while defending his family and community from such as the onslaught of the Islamic hordes.
A Muslim so-called martyr says "You will die for what I believe in." while he dies inadvertently while in the act of slaughtering innocents through imperialistic conquest.

A related thread where a Muslim falsely proclaimed Samson to be the first suicide soldier:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.0

[JC_Believer]

That being true, only God's Spirit can reveal it to them.  Our part is not to convince but only to preach the Word of God,  only to sow the love of God.  Our lives are spent proclaiming the gospel by our words and our lives.  ONLY the Spirit of God can speak to their hearts.  He knows if they are willing or not.  We know, through the Word, that broad is the way that leads to destruction and MANY there be that go that way and only FEW go the way of Life, BUT we preach Jesus and Him crucified and the Holy Spirit will confirm His word with signs following.

Joh 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 
Joh 16:8  And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 
Joh 16:9  Of sin, because they believe not on me; 
Joh 16:10  Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 
Joh 16:11  Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 
Joh 16:12  I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 
Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 
Joh 16:14  He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 

I love the words of David when I think of the almost overwhelming factors we face in this world.  I encourage myself in the Lord, and remember who are enemy truly is, and that Jesus has made a show over him TRIUMPHING over him in it, and I repeat David's words!! 

"Who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God? " (1 Sam 17:26)  "Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied!!" (1 Sam 17:45)

We know the coming doom of the Beast and it's prophet and those who take his mark but we do not back down and continue to preach the Kingdom of God is at hand and available to all people now!

Jesus is building His church and THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!  Praise to HIS Name alone and ALL Glory to the ONE TRUE God and our Father!!

[PeteWaldo]

We know the coming doom of the Beast and it's prophet and those who take his mark but we do not back down and continue to preach the Kingdom of God is at hand and available to all people now!

Indeed:
http://www.christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm#mark_of_the_beast

[PeteWaldo]

That being true, only God's Spirit can reveal it to them.  Our part is not to convince but only to preach the Word of God,  only to sow the love of God.  Our lives are spent proclaiming the gospel by our words and our lives.  ONLY the Spirit of God can speak to their hearts.  He knows if they are willing or not.  We know, through the Word, that broad is the way that leads to destruction and MANY there be that go that way and only FEW go the way of Life, BUT we preach Jesus and Him crucified and the Holy Spirit will confirm His word with signs following.

Indeed, and this is most important. As you can see from such as the Samson thread in my prior post, they refuse to address what you write or pretend they don't see replies. So I have come to realize that there should normally be only one subject addressed with Muslims that come with these attitudes and that is, as you/Paul point out, the cross and Christ crucified.
Once we point out that Muhammad denied the crucifixion, the whole subject of the Gospel - indeed the whole Bible considering prophecy - nothing else matters, so there is no point in discussing any other subject once that has been made crystal clear.
Let alone that Muhammad's denial of the crucifixion came well over 5 centuries after the scriptures were complete - after the Bible had been copied tens of thousands of times, translated into every major language and had been read all over the known world for centuries - yet during the days of Muhammad's earlier Mecca drivel his "Allah" supposedly told the people of the Gospel to go by what "Allah" had revealed therein! So they are stuck with its whole subject and it is an impossibility that the Bible could have been "corrupted" as they claim, some time after "Allah" was supposed to have uttered those words to Muhammad!

Surah 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

A catch-22 and checkmate!
There is at least one Muslim that came to Christ through recognizing this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuCPgpQl34g

[JC_Believer]

There is at least one Muslim that came to Christ through recognizing this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuCPgpQl34g

Hallelujah!!  The Name of Jesus be praised and all Glory to the One True God and our Father!

[JC_Believer]

Yet Muhammadans don't seem to possess the capacity to understand the difference.

A related thread where a Muslim falsely proclaimed Samson to be the first suicide soldier:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.0

Do you suppose this is a brainwashing that is brought on by constant manipulation and fear?  Thus becoming so deeply ingrained in them that without God's help they will not come free of it?  I know the demoniac was under the control of a legion of demons and yet, he was able to bring himself to the feet of Jesus for help.  I often tell people this story and that IF they want help no devil in existence can stop them from getting to Jesus.  It just takes a decision and Jesus can set you free from ANYTHING and put you in a sound mind, body and environment!  IF God be for us (and He is) NO ONE and NOTHING can be against us!!


And speaking of demons who are the "we" that are often referred to when Allah is supposedly speaking to Muhammed?

[PeteWaldo]

Yet Muhammadans don't seem to possess the capacity to understand the difference.

A related thread where a Muslim falsely proclaimed Samson to be the first suicide soldier:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.0

Do you suppose this is a brainwashing that is brought on by constant manipulation and fear?

There's no question fear is a huge factor as leaving Islam is not considered an option for the overwhelming majority, since the punishments for leaving Islam range from being disinherited (or having your own parents kill you) in the West.........
https://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=DLDWGGNX

To the death penalty by State statute in most Middle East Islamic countries for "apostasy".......
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/death_penalty_apostasy.htm

Or even for just speaking the truth about Muhammad as he is revealed through Islam's own books:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/blasphemy_laws.htm

You would think that 1400 years worth of Islam's slave's aversion to truth, while being intimidated and forced into having to stay in that cult, would be enough to demonstrate even to them that it must be a lie and drive most that still have the capacity for critical thought out.

However since their entire reality is inverted, being trained in what to DISbelieve, and their lives are ruled by the father of lies with Muhammad's "revelations" coming straight out of the pit of hell, I think the greatest factor behind their dysfunction and broken-mindedness comes from being filled with Satan's spirit of antichrist:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/antichrist.htm

Thus becoming so deeply ingrained in them that without God's help they will not come free of it?  I know the demoniac was under the control of a legion of demons and yet, he was able to bring himself to the feet of Jesus for help.  I often tell people this story and that IF they want help no devil in existence can stop them from getting to Jesus.  It just takes a decision and Jesus can set you free from ANYTHING and put you in a sound mind, body and environment!  IF God be for us (and He is) NO ONE and NOTHING can be against us!!

As blessedly demonstrated in so many of the Muslim testimonies included in this forum:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=93.0

And speaking of demons who are the "we" that are often referred to when Allah is supposedly speaking to Muhammed?

As far as the Arabian pagans were concerned it would have referred to the rest of the Arabian Star Family they worshiped.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1140.0

Muhammadans today would excuse it away as a "royal we".

[JC_Believer]

Unfortunately, history is not always accessible to people and if you only know one image of God and are kept from the truth it is more difficult to come to that decision.  One truth is that God is a righteous Judge not willing for any to perish, therefore, EVERYONE will have the opportunity to come to Him, either by Spirit or by truth.  We hear the testimonies of peoples, who never had a preacher but have had encounters with good angels, or had visions and dreams, and even encounters with the Lord Himself,  but most will hear by the Spirit of God, Who has come to convince the world of sin and righteousness and judgement.  We pray, we preach, we sow, but God gives the increase.  God is the Savior of the World!  If ANYONE wants truth He will move the World to bring it to them.  He is as close as a thought or a word.  Whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.   Praise to HIS Name alone and ALL Glory to the ONE TRUE God and our Father!!