ISIL - by Ellis Skolfield

[PeteWaldo]

Since the days of Muhammad there have been NINE titular heads to the Islamic world. Those religious/governmental heads were called caliphates. A couple were recognized by the West like the al Rashid dynasty and the the Ottoman Empire, the rest were pretty much ignored. Their list appears below . . .
 
1.1 Rashidun, 632–661
1.2 Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries
1.2a The Caliphate in Hispania
1.3 Abbasids, 8th–13th centuries
1.4 Fatimids, 10th–12th centuries
1.5 Shadow Caliphate, 13th–16th centuries
1.6 Ottomans, 16th–20th century
1.7 Sokoto, 19th century
1.8 Ahmadiyya Caliphate, 1908-Present
1.9 Khilafat Movement of, 1920
       
The above list is accepted by most Islamic scholars and to date there have been NINE. It was those caliphates who sent the 300,000 man Islamic Army of Abdel-Rahman, first into Khazaria and later to the Battle of Tours in 732 A.D.. Then in 1668 A.D., sent Kara Mustapha with a 275,000 man army to the Battle of Vienna. If God had not given victory to Christian forces in any of those three battles, you and your family would be speaking Arabic and praying five times a day on your little prayer rugs, facing Mecca!
 
The Caliphate movement ended in 1924.
 
So is ISIL, now rampaging in the Middle East, significant? Well, fundamental Islam under the banner of ISIL is once again trying to establish a worldwide Islamic Caliphate!
 
Today's ISIL would be a minor sideshow were it not that fundamental Muslims from all over the world, including from Canada and the United States, are flocking to join them in jihad. ISIL's sights are on the US and Israel and "Israel National News" reported that the ISIL banner was flying on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during their rally on the site. Only history will show whether ISIL is the final 10th caliphate or not, but the organization is well-funded by Qatar and its brutal, genocidal influence is spreading rapidly.
 
It is the caliphates, titular heads of Middle Eastern Islam, that are the 10 horns of the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast!!!
 
It is ISIL itself, not the countries over which they are gaining control that, as we currently understand Scripture, represents the 10th HORN of the Leopard-Bear-Lion Islamic beast!

[Mike S]

Since the days of Muhammad there have been NINE titular heads to the Islamic world. Those religious/governmental heads were called caliphates. A couple were recognized by the West like the al Rashid dynasty and the the Ottoman Empire, the rest were pretty much ignored. Their list appears below . . .
 
1.1 Rashidun, 632–661
1.2 Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries
1.2a The Caliphate in Hispania
1.3 Abbasids, 8th–13th centuries
1.4 Fatimids, 10th–12th centuries
1.5 Shadow Caliphate, 13th–16th centuries
1.6 Ottomans, 16th–20th century
1.7 Sokoto, 19th century
1.8 Ahmadiyya Caliphate, 1908-Present
1.9 Khilafat Movement of, 1920
       
The above list is accepted by most Islamic scholars and to date there have been NINE. It was those caliphates who sent the 300,000 man Islamic Army of Abdel-Rahman, first into Khazaria and later to the Battle of Tours in 732 A.D.. Then in 1668 A.D., sent Kara Mustapha with a 275,000 man army to the Battle of Vienna. If God had not given victory to Christian forces in any of those three battles, you and your family would be speaking Arabic and praying five times a day on your little prayer rugs, facing Mecca!
 
The Caliphate movement ended in 1924.
 
So is ISIL, now rampaging in the Middle East, significant? Well, fundamental Islam under the banner of ISIL is once again trying to establish a worldwide Islamic Caliphate!
 
Today's ISIL would be a minor sideshow were it not that fundamental Muslims from all over the world, including from Canada and the United States, are flocking to join them in jihad. ISIL's sights are on the US and Israel and "Israel National News" reported that the ISIL banner was flying on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during their rally on the site. Only history will show whether ISIL is the final 10th caliphate or not, but the organization is well-funded by Qatar and its brutal, genocidal influence is spreading rapidly.
 
It is the caliphates, titular heads of Middle Eastern Islam, that are the 10 horns of the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast!!!
 
It is ISIL itself, not the countries over which they are gaining control that, as we currently understand Scripture, represents the 10th HORN of the Leopard-Bear-Lion Islamic beast!

I believe Ellis has hit a home run here. It really ties it all together.

However, I prefer to not use the Acronym ISIL, as it stands for  Islamic State of Iraq and Levant., with Levant being the land bridge between Turkey and Egypt. The land that Israel sits on is a part of that land bridge, so referring to ISIS as ISIL is to say that Israel is not recogniseed as a sovreign nation, but is under Islamic rule. This may be a strawman argument since God only considers the righteous remnant of Jews as true Israel, but it is disconcerting whem the current administratio of the government of the United States seems to be the only group using the acronym ISIL, while everyone else, including the terrorist group itself, refer to it as either ISIS or simply IS.

I just saw your thread about ISIL, after I made these comments. It has been a fwe weeks since my last visit, so there was a lot to read through. It would have taken me all night to read through everything posted since the last tmie I was in the Forum.

[PeteWaldo]

Since the days of Muhammad there have been NINE titular heads to the Islamic world. Those religious/governmental heads were called caliphates. A couple were recognized by the West like the al Rashid dynasty and the the Ottoman Empire, the rest were pretty much ignored. Their list appears below . . .
 
1.1 Rashidun, 632–661
1.2 Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries
1.2a The Caliphate in Hispania
1.3 Abbasids, 8th–13th centuries
1.4 Fatimids, 10th–12th centuries
1.5 Shadow Caliphate, 13th–16th centuries
1.6 Ottomans, 16th–20th century
1.7 Sokoto, 19th century
1.8 Ahmadiyya Caliphate, 1908-Present
1.9 Khilafat Movement of, 1920
       
The above list is accepted by most Islamic scholars and to date there have been NINE. It was those caliphates who sent the 300,000 man Islamic Army of Abdel-Rahman, first into Khazaria and later to the Battle of Tours in 732 A.D.. Then in 1668 A.D., sent Kara Mustapha with a 275,000 man army to the Battle of Vienna. If God had not given victory to Christian forces in any of those three battles, you and your family would be speaking Arabic and praying five times a day on your little prayer rugs, facing Mecca!
 
The Caliphate movement ended in 1924.
 
So is ISIL, now rampaging in the Middle East, significant? Well, fundamental Islam under the banner of ISIL is once again trying to establish a worldwide Islamic Caliphate!
 
Today's ISIL would be a minor sideshow were it not that fundamental Muslims from all over the world, including from Canada and the United States, are flocking to join them in jihad. ISIL's sights are on the US and Israel and "Israel National News" reported that the ISIL banner was flying on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during their rally on the site. Only history will show whether ISIL is the final 10th caliphate or not, but the organization is well-funded by Qatar and its brutal, genocidal influence is spreading rapidly.
 
It is the caliphates, titular heads of Middle Eastern Islam, that are the 10 horns of the Leopard-Bear-Lion beast!!!
 
It is ISIL itself, not the countries over which they are gaining control that, as we currently understand Scripture, represents the 10th HORN of the Leopard-Bear-Lion Islamic beast!

I believe Ellis has hit a home run here. It really ties it all together.

However, I prefer to not use the Acronym ISIL, as it stands for  Islamic State of Iraq and Levant., with Levant being the land bridge between Turkey and Egypt. The land that Israel sits on is a part of that land bridge, so referring to ISIS as ISIL is to say that Israel is not recogniseed as a sovreign nation, but is under Islamic rule. This may be a strawman argument since God only considers the righteous remnant of Jews as true Israel, but it is disconcerting whem the current administratio of the government of the United States seems to be the only group using the acronym ISIL, while everyone else, including the terrorist group itself, refer to it as either ISIS or simply IS.

I just saw your thread about ISIL, after I made these comments. It has been a fwe weeks since my last visit, so there was a lot to read through. It would have taken me all night to read through everything posted since the last tmie I was in the Forum.

Glad to have you back bro. I missed you. It's been too quiet in here.
Almost immediately upon the Muslims switch from ISIS to ISIL Obama that used the new acronym (most everyone else in the media even now, still use ISIS), perhaps as a way to covertly communicate to the Islamic State that he sympathizes with their territorial ambitions. As a way for Obama to join them in erasing Israel from the picture.
http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/09/15/why-obamas-use-of-the-term-isil-instead-of-isis-is-actually-really-important/

http://www.bing.com/search?q=obama+using+the+term+isil&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=obama+using+the+term+isil&sc=0-16&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=1e97c6c8fb224f5da4566b59b720a8fa

And yes, ever since those orthodox Muslims gave me the opportunity to, I refer to them and their imperialistic conquest simply as the "Islamic State", since that best describes what it is and has been for 1400 years. Let alone that their territorial ambitions go far beyond the Levant and include the whole world.

[Mike S]

One of the reasons I was gone for so long was the browsers on the computer I use for personal stuff kept crashing as soon as I would open them. It had something to do with an add-on or plug-in. I upgraded my anti-virus program and it seems to have corrected a lot of the problem. There are still some issues with the plug-in container in Firefox, and until I have the time to research it and apply a solution, I'm using IE. Chrome thinks I'm not connected to the internet, so it may be a router firewall issue blocking it.

[ExMilitary]

Since the days of Muhammad there have been NINE titular heads to the Islamic world. Those religious/governmental heads were called caliphates. A couple were recognized by the West like the al Rashid dynasty and the the Ottoman Empire, the rest were pretty much ignored. Their list appears below . . .
 
1.1 Rashidun, 632–661
1.2 Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries
1.2a The Caliphate in Hispania
1.3 Abbasids, 8th–13th centuries
1.4 Fatimids, 10th–12th centuries
1.5 Shadow Caliphate, 13th–16th centuries
1.6 Ottomans, 16th–20th century
1.7 Sokoto, 19th century
1.8 Ahmadiyya Caliphate, 1908-Present
1.9 Khilafat Movement of, 1920

Is Ellis just offering up a possible fulfillment, because the 2014 version of his slide presentation says:.

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast (Islam) rise
up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten
crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy

Ten Historic Califates of the Leopard-Bear-Lion
1.1 Rashidun, 632–661
1.2 Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries
1.3 The Caliphate in Hispania
1.4 Abbasids, 8th–13th centuries
1.5 Fatimids, 10th–12th centuries
1.6 Shadow Caliphate, 13th–16th centuries
1.7 Ottomans, 16th–20th century
1.8 Sokoto, 19th century
1.9 Ahmadiyya Caliphate, 1908-Present
1.10 Khilafat Movement, 1920

And there appeared another wonder in
heaven; and behold a great red dragon (Satan! other figurative
picture of him is the “Scarlet Beast” of Rev 17:3), having seven
heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. (world
empires)

The Ten Horns of the Scarlet Beast
The ten antagonistic Islamic countries that surround Israel.
[Ellis identifies 10 countries that surround Israel]
Revelation 17:11-12 “And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is
of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are
ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one
hour with the beast.”

A Different View of the 10 Horns
Revelation 17:11-13 “And the (satanic) beast that was (before John),
and is not, (in control of the kingdoms of the world during the
Christian era) even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth
into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings,
which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings
(no crowns, so these are not ordinary rulers of nations or kingdoms)
one hour (15.44 days) with the (satanic) beast. These have one
mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.”
So what kind of world authorities are not heads of states?
They have power “as kings,” but don’t actually
control their governments?
The Leaders of the World’s
Financial $ystems!
These systems control the
economic well-being of every people
and nation on earth!

We have at least 3 different explanations of the 10 horns for (at most) 2 10-horned beasts in Revelation (the dragon and the scarlet beast who Ellis says are different figurative visions of Satan).  One of the explanations closely matches this latest post, but Ellis has chosen to renumber them because...?

[Bistabuster]

We have at least 3 different explanations of the 10 horns for (at most) 2 10-horned beasts in Revelation (the dragon and the scarlet beast who Ellis says are different figurative visions of Satan).  One of the explanations closely matches this latest post, but Ellis has chosen to renumber them because...?

Perhaps current events are changing the way we think prophetically.  As new events unfold, we are better prepared to see the big picture more clearly. 

[ExMilitary]

We have at least 3 different explanations of the 10 horns for (at most) 2 10-horned beasts in Revelation (the dragon and the scarlet beast who Ellis says are different figurative visions of Satan).  One of the explanations closely matches this latest post, but Ellis has chosen to renumber them because...?

Perhaps current events are changing the way we think prophetically.  As new events unfold, we are better prepared to see the big picture more clearly.

I agree completely.  History cannot argue against the will of God.

[PeteWaldo]

Since the days of Muhammad there have been NINE titular heads to the Islamic world. Those religious/governmental heads were called caliphates. A couple were recognized by the West like the al Rashid dynasty and the the Ottoman Empire, the rest were pretty much ignored. Their list appears below . . .
 
1.1 Rashidun, 632–661
1.2 Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries
1.2a The Caliphate in Hispania
1.3 Abbasids, 8th–13th centuries
1.4 Fatimids, 10th–12th centuries
1.5 Shadow Caliphate, 13th–16th centuries
1.6 Ottomans, 16th–20th century
1.7 Sokoto, 19th century
1.8 Ahmadiyya Caliphate, 1908-Present
1.9 Khilafat Movement of, 1920

Is Ellis just offering up a possible fulfillment, because the 2014 version of his slide presentation says.....

I had brought it up as possible fulfillment with him some months ago and suppose it has been on simmer. It is just one possible solution. However in the list I offered him from Wikipedia I think I remember it counting 10 already fulfilled, without needing to bring the Islamic State into it. I think it was before they rose up and declared a caliphate. I'll see if I can find it.

[edit add] Found our chat from Feb 3, 2013:

"Just took a peek at your teaching guide. Saw the horns on LBL you suggest Islamic rulers. I had wanted to conclude the same a while back and searched around and came up with this before, but as I remember I was thinking there was a problem with it. Maybe I should have looked a little further. I count 10 Caliphates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate

    1.1 Rashidun, 632–661
    1.2 Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries
        1.2.1 The Caliphate in Hispania
    1.3 Abbasids, 8th–13th centuries
    1.4 Fatimids, 10th–12th centuries
    1.5 Shadow Caliphate, 13th–16th centuries
    1.6 Ottomans, 16th–20th century
    1.7 Sokoto, 19th century
    1.8 Ahmadiyya Caliphate, 1908-Present
    1.9 Khilafat Movement, 1920
    1.10 End of the Caliphate, 1924"
_______________________

"Those 10 Caliphates work, nicely! <smile> Good research, brother. In the latest Study Guide I show a map of the 10, anti-Israel, Arabic, Islamic states that surround Israel today. I think both concepts fit Scripture so with your permission, I'll add your list of Caliphates to the Study Guide."
_____________________

"Of course bro. Not my list but Wikipedia."
_____________________

"BTW, I found that info on Wikipedia and certainly like their ten Caliphates, but because several of those Caliphates overlapped, saw no reason to make the Caliphate in Hispania subordinate to the others, so I changed the way they numbered them to be more in line with Scripture. See the attached."

(From the PDF study guide page he sent):

"Ten Historic Califates of the Leopard-Bear-Lion

1.1 Rashidun, 632–661
1.2 Umayyads, 7th–8th centuries
1.3 The Caliphate in Hispania
1.4 Abbasids, 8th–13th centuries
1.5 Fatimids, 10th–12th centuries
1.6 Shadow Caliphate, 13th–16th centuries
1.7 Ottomans, 16th–20th century
1.8 Sokoto, 19th century
1.9 Ahmadiyya Caliphate, 1908-Present
1.10 Khilafat Movement, 1920
Caliphate movement ends in 1924.

But now, fundamental Islam is trying
to establish a worldwide Caliphate again!"
___________________

I just noticed that link to Wikipedia doesn't look anything like it did during the time of our chat. Here's what it looked like 2 days before our chat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Caliphate&oldid=536087330

So I counted ten including the - 1.2.1 The Caliphate in Hispania - which Wikipedia lists more like a sub-caliphate. I remember at the time I didn't feel great about counting that weak sub-caliphate but I had to come up with 10. The declaration of the Islamic State has since then, taken care of any need for hesitation.

[PeteWaldo]

We have at least 3 different explanations of the 10 horns for (at most) 2 10-horned beasts in Revelation (the dragon and the scarlet beast who Ellis says are different figurative visions of Satan).  One of the explanations closely matches this latest post, but Ellis has chosen to renumber them because...?

Plus the ten horned Roman Empire beast of Daniel, with the 10 western nations that the Roman Empire roughly divided into as horns, and Hitler as the little horn.

I am just as open to entertaining various explanations as Ellis is. I'm not even adverse to contemplating dual fulfillment on the same beast.

I wouldn't be adverse to two different sets of ten horns as I see the two beasts as being different. I view the leopard-bear-lion beast as being more of a description of the physical historical journey of mankind, while the scarlet beast seems to be more about the spiritual condition of mankind and money and consumption and such over the same period.

I have to admit I am terribly rusty with this eschatology stuff, as I have been so involved with Islam in my desperation for the 1.5 billion people I am trying to help guide to the foot of the cross.

[ExMilitary]

I am just as open to entertaining various explanations as Ellis is. I'm not even adverse to contemplating dual fulfillment on the same beast.
...
I wouldn't be adverse to two different sets of ten horns as I see the two beasts as being different. I view the leopard-bear-lion beast as being more of a description of the physical historical journey of mankind, while the scarlet beast seems to be more about the spiritual condition of mankind and money and consumption and such over the same period.

I think scripture is rife with these types of mysteries.  Take the following parallels, for instance:

You know that the number 10 is the number of nations that existed in the land promised to Abraham.  Just like Jericho (7 trumpets, the scarlet thread, saving of a household from among Gentiles, etc) could be seen as a foreshadowing of a lot of the imagery in Revelation, the land promised to Abraham has parallels as well:

Genesis 15:18-19 (10 nations - with kings in the promised land that would be passed on to his progeny)... On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, “To your offspring I give[c] this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, 19 the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites. (10 nations)

Both Daniel and Revelation point to sets of 10 representing nations/kings... horns, toes...

Also, upon the entry to the promised land (2 spies sent by Joshua... 2 witnesses sent by Jesus - believing Jews and Gentiles).  The two witnesses (spies) facilitated the repentance of a Gentile woman and her household all of whom were subsequently saved when the 7th trumpet blew and the "kingdom of the world became the Lord's (Revelation)" (fall of Jericho).

When Israel goes in there are 7 nations listed.

The one going into the promised land is Joshua (the OT name of Jesus).

Although the 10 horns do, and will continue to have a VERY concrete interpretation, there are mysteries of wisdom hidden all over the place.