Chat with friendofutube2009 Part 2

[Peter]

While part 2, the following was actually my first reply to the PM detailed in Part 1. I worked a long time and then accidentally erased my work with an errant key stroke. That's one reason I moved to the forum where I could keep saving my work. You don't need to waste time with the preliminaries and my efforts to get friendofutube to join me in the forum. You can go directly to the first substantive post of this Part 2 discussion by clicking the following link -  
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1046.msg4027#msg4027

I wrote in YouTube PM

Dear friend, I just spent the better part of an hour in reply, but hit an errant button on my keyboard and lost my work. Perhaps it was of the Lord so I don't squander time in this dark alley of personal messaging. Did you ever realize that the reason you don't want to discuss Mohammed, in the light of your own books, is because they show him to be an abject reprobate?

Rather than reconstructing my reply, suffice it to say that all of the subjects you brought up are covered in great detail in the forum. A link to it is available on each of my videos as well as on my channel page or copy and paste the below link. Let's move out of this dark alley and into the light, shall we? Select any username and password you choose. I look forward to seeing you there.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php

[Peter]

friendofutube2009's reply

[[[[[[REPLY: Thanks for the reply although I was a little bit sad for I was expecting a point-by-point rebuttal of the arguments that I raised regarding the divinity of Jesus. Well, if it is really true that you spent an hour composing your reply (which I doubt), then I am not in a hurry to have it. You can do in one, two, three days, even weeks and I dont mind. I do not like a forum or the Youtube comment because they are too cramped for me. You as a heavy weight in your field and me just a student of comparative religion, need an arena just for you and me. Moreover, I write profusely and therefire I do not like the forum or comment style way of discussion. I am challenging you now and it is only between YOU and ME.

Well, I mentioned in my first email to you regarding mud-slinging, right? Now, you are starting it. My response to you on not discussing the Last Prophet (pbuh) in the light of my won Book is in kind and goes like this:

Did you ever realize that the reason you don't want to discuss Jesus as God, in the light of your own books, is because it shows him NOT to be God? Next time, I will reply in kind for you mud-slinging.

Thanks for your inviting me to the forum. But I do not need your reply there. I want a reply from you in this ONE-ON-ONE. By the way, all the arguments that I mentioned are not meant to be answered in toto and in one setting. You can answer them one at a time, for example, point 1 today, point 2 next and so on. I am not in a hurry and I want this to be between YOU and ME. This is not a dark alley. In fact, like two boxers, you and I will be in focus between ourselves and only the two of us. But if you are getting cold feet, then its up to you to turn down the challenge.

YOU SAID: Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity. The 23 year record of rec...

REPLY: If you mean Pauline Christianity, then I AGREE with you 100% that Islam is the stunning perfect opposite of Christianity. As you well know, Jesus (pbuh) NEVER EVER said in any chapter of your Bible that his religion is CHRISTIANITY! The word Christian was first used by the pagans in Antioch to call the first followers of Jesus (Acts 11:26). And as you well know, the first followers of Jesus called the Nazarenes NEVER EVER believed Jesus to be God or part of a triune God nor call their religion Christianity. Now let me compare Muhammeds belief with Jesus peace be upon them both. I will mention only THREE IDENTICAL teachings of Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) vis-à-vis Paul and you decide who is IDENTIFICAL and OPPOSITE.

A GOD

- Jesus says ONE GOD: And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29

- Muhammed (pbuh) says ONE GOD: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Quran 112:1

- Pauline Christian: the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.. In other words, TRINITY, THREE-IN-ONE God. However, you explained this as ONE will NEVER EVER make it ONE. Worse, Jesus NEVER EVER preached this!

COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.

B SALVATION

- Jesus (pbuh) says you are saved by faith and works: keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17 and For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20

- Muhammed (pbuh) says you are saved by faith and works: By (the Token of) Time (through the ages), Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

- Pauline Christian says faith ONLY: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.

C FOLLOWING THE LAW Circumcision and kosher

- Jesus (pbuh) says he did not come to destroy the Law: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.. He was circumcised (Luke 1:59) and NEVER ATE pork as per the Law laid out in Deuteronomy 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

- Muhammeds (pbuh) followers are well-known to be circumcised and would NEVER EVER ate pork like Jesus (pbuh).

- Pauline Chrisitians: Paul and all Pauline Christians like you abolished circumcision in 1 Corinthians 7:18: Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.. Paul allowed the eating of swine and since then every Christian meal is not complete without ham, pork, etc.
COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.

Therefore, your statement Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity. should be revised to Paul's religion of Christianity is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Jesus(pbuh) religion.

In the hope, that you will work on your point-by-point rebuttal on my arguments that Jesus is NOT God, I am reproducing it here in case you hit again the wrong button in your keyboard and deleted my previous email to you:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< START >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]

Then he went on to copy and paste a repeat of what I copy and pasted into Part 1
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0

[Peter]

[[[[REPLY: Thanks for the reply although I was a little bit sad for I was expecting a point-by-point rebuttal....]]]]

Which you can easily find in the forum.
Do you wonder why you prefer the dark alley of personal messaging? Absence of accountability perhaps?
If you want me to read further than the quoted above, you need to post in there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfKpgiYgHY

[Peter]

[[[[YOU SAID: Which you can easily find in the forum. Do you wonder why you prefer the dark alley of personal messaging? Absence of accountability perhaps? If you want me to read further than the quoted above, you need to post in there.

REPLY: Do you wonder why you prefer the forum? Absence of courage to face me ONE-ON-ONE, perhaps?]]]]]

I can devote a thread entirely to a one-on-one in the forum, as I have many times as you can see from the preface in the section "copy and pasted and active chats with Muslims".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0

[[[[[ If you want me to consider your reply as a sign of surrender, just turn down the offer and I will stop.]]]]
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0
But what I offered is a venue where we can quote each other, and quote quotes, etc. to keep our conversation perfectly organized.
But what you prefer is an absence of accountability and to lurk in the dark alley of personal messaging.

[[[[[Remember, I do not want you to refute all the arguments at once. You can refute ONLY ONE now and then proceed later. You can even copy and paste your forum answer to any of the points that I mention. Is that fair enough?

If your feet is getting cold, just say so and I will stop this discussion.

Awaiting your reply...]]]]]

It is you that suffers the cold feet and runs away from a venue where our conversation can be perfectly organized, while being one-on-one, if you prefer.

I don't want to squander more of my time in a dark alley with cowards that fear the light of day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY

[Peter]

At this point I sent the message that appears in Part 1
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0

[Peter]

[[[[[I have seen your quotations of Bukhari related to sex, murder, etc which are explained and refuted well by our ulemas and other Islamic scholars.]]]]

Almost forgot this. Muammar Qaddafi tried to run away from the hadith like you are too.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=892.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc3vcr_MQYM

[Peter]

Look how much nicer it works in the forum.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

[Peter]

friendofutube2009's reply

[[[[[[REPLY: Thanks for the reply although I was a little bit sad for I was expecting a point-by-point rebuttal of the arguments that I raised regarding the divinity of Jesus. Well, if it is really true that you spent an hour composing your reply (which I doubt), then I am not in a hurry to have it. You can do in one, two, three days, even weeks and I dont mind. I do not like a forum or the Youtube comment because they are too cramped for me. You as a heavy weight in your field ........

I don't know what would give you that impression.

........ and me just a student of comparative religion, need an arena just for you and me. Moreover, I write profusely.....

Then the disappearing content and lack of accountability of the PM format must be frustrating for you.

..... and therefire I do not like the forum or comment style way of discussion. I am challenging you now and it is only between YOU and ME.

You have a misunderstanding of the forum. There are many one on one chats with me.

Well, I mentioned in my first email to you regarding mud-slinging, right? Now, you are starting it. My response to you on not discussing the Last Prophet (pbuh) in the light of my won Book is in kind and goes like this:

Did you ever realize that the reason you don't want to discuss Jesus as God, in the light of your own books, is because it shows him NOT to be God? Next time, I will reply in kind for you mud-slinging.

But this, of course, is a false premise since I do discuss it, have a whole forum section devoted to it, and even included some in reply to your "Son of man" comment in Part 1
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.msg4004#msg4004

Thanks for your inviting me to the forum. But I do not need your reply there. I want a reply from you in this ONE-ON-ONE.

That is exactly what I set up there, in 2 dedicated threads now.

By the way, all the arguments that I mentioned are not meant to be answered in toto and in one setting. You can answer them one at a time, for example, point 1 today, point 2 next and so on.

The forum offers a perfect venue for that as the other chats with Muslims demonstrate that sometimes go on for weeks. All the work is handy to find, well organized, and also searchable with the search function.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=32.0

I am not in a hurry and I want this to be between YOU and ME. This is not a dark alley.

Of course it is. The exchange would only be viewable by your and my eyes, unlike the forum where other Muslim read-only participants can benefit from it.

In fact, like two boxers, you and I will be in focus between ourselves and only the two of us.

What you mean is you like to hide in the dark alley of personal messaging. Why are you so afraid of others being able to observe our conversation?

[Peter]

But if you are getting cold feet, then its up to you to turn down the challenge.

YOU SAID: Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity. The 23 year record of rec...

REPLY: If you mean Pauline Christianity, then I AGREE with you 100% that Islam is the stunning perfect opposite of Christianity.

But why pick on Paul when you must REJECT ALL of the new covenant prophets and witnesses, and the whole subject of the new covenant which is Jesus Christ and His blood that would save you, to follow Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 7th century religion?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0

As you well know, Jesus (pbuh) NEVER EVER said in any chapter of your Bible that his religion is CHRISTIANITY!

He never said the word Bible either. So what?

The word Christian was first used by the pagans in Antioch to call the first followers of Jesus (Acts 11:26).

CHRISTians follow Jesus CHRIST - the Messiah.
Just as MOHAMMEDans follow MOHAMMED.

And as you well know, the first followers of Jesus called the Nazarenes NEVER EVER believed Jesus to be God or part of a triune God nor call their religion Christianity.

I am sure that your claims are patently false of any Christian group, but your claim is of course irrelevant because any cult that did or does not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, or that Jesus is God, or rejects the Spirit of God, rejects the Word of God.

1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Now let me compare Muhammeds belief with Jesus peace be upon them both. I will mention only THREE IDENTICAL teachings of Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) vis-à-vis Paul and you decide who is IDENTIFICAL and OPPOSITE.

A GOD

- Jesus says ONE GOD: And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:29

That's exactly right. Christians worship one God.
Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

- Muhammed (pbuh) says ONE GOD: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Quran 112:1

- Pauline Christian: the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God.

That's right. They are all God. But if you deny God has a Spirit you aren't even a Muslim.
Sura 32:9 But HE fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something OF HIS SPIRIT. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!

Sura 16:102 Say, the HOLY SPIRIT has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0

That you reject the hundreds of verses that describe the relationship between Jesus Christ the Son of God, and God His Father, is of course necessary, to follow Mohammed's 7th century STAND-ALONE religion. Indeed rejecting that Jesus is the Son of God is part of the most important fundamental in Mohammed's religion.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord.

Foolishly ignorant and false.
God has a Spirit.
God manifest, or revealed, Himself through the flesh of Jesus Christ. They are one, from the beginning.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0

For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords.. In other words, TRINITY, THREE-IN-ONE God. However, you explained this as ONE will NEVER EVER make it ONE. Worse, Jesus NEVER EVER preached this!

More lies and blasphemy. It's exactly what Jesus preached.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

What you mean is that you have chosen to adopt the child-like mind of a 7th century illiterate to try to understand God.

[Peter]

COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.

Silly to pick on Paul when you must REJECT ALL of the new covenant witnesses. Indeed John does a far better job of describing Mohammedan Islam and the fate of Mohammed's followers. (Bolding mine)

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath BOTH the Father AND THE SON.

Do you believe the record that God gave of His Son? If not what did God make you?

1John 5:10  He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.

What else are you?

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

You see? You are an antichrist, in spite of what deceivers who create their own bible verses to delude you into believing otherwise, like Ahmed Deedat lie to you poor folks. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=273.0

And Mohammedan's fates?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

That's John's testimony, my friend, not Paul's. And the Gospel writers warned us about such as Mohammed.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.   

But Mohammed even came as a ravening wolf.
The PERFECT OPPOSITE of Jesus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Rdej28pP4
Leading another 1.5 billion to their destruction in the world today.

[Peter]

B SALVATION

- Jesus (pbuh) says you are saved by faith and works: keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17 and For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20

But this may not have been much of a measure, since the Pharisees were lost in their own traditions, just like Mohammedans.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

- Muhammed (pbuh) says you are saved by faith and works:.....

Roman Catholics believe we are saved by works too. Indeed there are many parallels between the Roman Church and Islam. Like murder of those that don't agree with their religions doctrine, for one (historically speaking for the Roman Church, currently for Islamic fundamentalists that GET Islam).
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=512.0

But that isn't what the Word of God teaches.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Here's what all our good works mean to God, in light of our iniquities.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

That "filth rags" is a reference to used womens ministration cloths. It doesn't matter how much sin we commit as the price is the same.

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here's the key.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[Peter]

..... By (the Token of) Time (through the ages), Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds,.....

Deeds are the natural result of salvation, not the path to salvation.

...... and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

But the false prophet Mohammed's false STAND-ALONE 7th century religion, is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the new covenant......

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Surah 4:157  That they said (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

 ...... just as Mohammed was the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mohammed's phony Ka'aba rock god even cursing God's people

Surah 9.30 THE JEWS CALL ‘UZAIR A SON OF ALLAH, AND THE CHRISTIANS CALL CHRIST THE SON OF ALLAH. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. ALLAH’S CURSE BE ON THEM: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

[Peter]

- Pauline Christian says faith ONLY: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - Romans 10:9

We are saved through faith. Perhaps some are deceived by proof texting a verse - devoid of understanding - as you did, but that isn't what the Word of God teaches.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=repent&t=KJV&sf=5

[Peter]

COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL .......

Filthiest blasphemy yet. They were EXACT OPPOSITES as shown earlier in this post.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1046.msg4030#msg4030

And particularly as covered in the Mohammed section.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0

Mohammed's phony Ka'aba rock god even cursing God's people.

Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

......... on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.

C FOLLOWING THE LAW Circumcision and kosher

- Jesus (pbuh) says he did not come to destroy the Law: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil..

Which He did when He brought a new covenant, as prophesied many hundreds of years earlier by Jeremiah.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0

He was circumcised (Luke 1:59) and NEVER ATE pork .......

What Jesus taught is if someone believes that getting circumcised, or not eating pork, or believing that salvation comes through any other act of the flesh and will get you into the kingdom of God, then you are sorely deceived.

........ as per the Law laid out in Deuteronomy 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

- Muhammeds (pbuh) followers are well-known to be circumcised and would NEVER EVER ate pork like Jesus (pbuh).

- Pauline Chrisitians: Paul and all Pauline Christians like you abolished circumcision in 1 Corinthians 7:18: Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised..

As I showed you earlier
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

It's about being born again and filled with the Holy Spirit, my friend.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

All your pagan rituals, like Mohammedan heathen style prayer to Mohammed's phony Ka'aba rock god, won't get you there my friend.

Mat 6:7  But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

The Gospel is about relationship with God through Jesus Christ, not vain pagan rituals to the last surviving Ka'aba rock god.

1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

[Peter]

Paul allowed the eating of swine and since then every Christian meal is not complete without ham, pork, etc.
COMMENTARY: Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammed (pbuh) are IDENTICAL on the contrary Jesus and Paul OPPOSITE.

Therefore, your statement Mohammed's religion is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Christianity. should be revised to Paul's religion of Christianity is the STUNNINGLY PERFECT OPPOSITE of Jesus(pbuh) religion.

You distract yourself with foolishness thinking God is about pork and ham, even as the false prophet Mohammed taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of the whole subject of the Gospel, forcing you to reject the very blood that would save you.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0

In the hope, that you will work on your point-by-point rebuttal on my arguments that Jesus is NOT God, I am reproducing it here in case you hit again the wrong button in your keyboard and deleted my previous email to you:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< START >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>]]]]]]

Then he went on to copy and paste a repeat of what I copy and pasted into Part 1
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0

[Peter]

Received the PM that follows, quoted in it's entirety, with replies.

[Peter]

First I replied in PM
__________________

"Look how much nicer for two boxers to fight it out ONE-ON-ONE. Your filthy forum is your turf and it contains all the allies...."

Adopting the illiteracy of your false prophet. I already said our conversation can be limited to the 2 of us as I have many times in the past.
Now you are simply trying to create a device to run away from truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfKpgiYgHY
_________________

As time permits I will continue to respond.

[Peter]

YOU SAID: Look how much nicer it works in the forum.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1043.0
JESUS - ISA part 1
Comments & Discussion: http://petewaldo.com/inde...
Verses: http://www.islamandthetruth...
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

REPLY: First, you do not need to post any PM in the Comment area as I always monitor more the Inbox rather than the Comment area.

Look how much nicer for two boxers to fight it out ONE-ON-ONE. Your filthy forum is your turf and it contains all the allies, amenities, sinister secret weapons and entourage you have who will always help you in case you are defeated (which I am sure of). Youtube is a neutral ground for every fighter worth his salt to engage in a ONE-ON-ONE fight.

But of course if I depended on others help, I could seek it whether I am chatting in the forum, or in a YouTube PM. The difference is that in the forum we can post live links, and organize conversations, and better hold each other accountable for past words.

It does NOT offer advantage to you and me. It is a VERY FAIR battleground between us ONLY YOU AND ME! Did that sink in? Please do NOT entice me again to fall in your trap!

Yea, it sank in. You prefer dark alleys rather than mutual accountability, and you desire to hide what you are going to write, from the eyes of others. I would too if I followed Mohammed. I have repeatedly told you the conversation in the forum would remain between you and I.

[Peter]

Your enclosed video entitled JESUS ISA part 1 which contains a quotation of John 3:!6 is typical anti-Islamist trick.

The Word of God isn't a trick my friend. That video, Part 1 and Part 2 contain not a single verse, but over a hundred verses that declare Jesus Christ to be the Son of God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfKRDbjpVqg

Here are text versions
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

You should know WELL your Bible if you are really that deep in your theology. The fact that you do NOT know the reality of this verse proves to me that you are just a copy and paste anti-Islamist paid (by Church or Zionist) ......

Regarding my being "paid" I specifically prohibit donations in the first line of my websites and the welcome section of this forum. Not even any Google click ads either here or in my websites.

[Peter]

...... robot to discredit Islam because your church pews are emptying to mosques in your area.

No surprise that Islam grows, through populating like bunnies in Western welfare states, and through oppression in other areas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for WIDE [IS] THE GATE, AND BROAD [IS THE WAY, THAT LEADETH TO DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat:

As it should be since apostasy was prophesied, while it would seem Mohammed was mentioned in the same section.

2Thes 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first.... (or apostasy)
Now for the Mohammedan Islam part.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [EVEN HIM],WHOSE COMING IS AFTER THE WORKING OF SATAN with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This even though over 6 million Muslims come to Christ Jesus every year, in Africa alone, according to Al-Jazeerah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

The information age has allowed Muslims to see exactly what Mohammed was all about - according to Islam's own books!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0

[Peter]

Re John 3:16 This verse is NOT from the lips of Jesus. If you look at your red-lettered Bible, it is NOT red and therefore NOT Jesus statement.

That would certainly be a ridiculous way to study scripture. To save the quotes of Jesus and throw the rest out.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

But then what do you make of this quote of Jesus?

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0

Shall I put it in red for you? How about this quote of Jesus?

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[Peter]

It is forced down throw his throat and now you are thumb sucking it. Worse, the word begotten is expunged in the RSV 1972 as fabrication and NOT found in MOST ancient MSS. Who removed it? It is removed by 32 Christian eminent Bible scholars backed by 50 cooperating denominations Now the current verse is as follows:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

But Mohammedans still have to reject the verse because if you confess that Jesus is the Son of God you will have committed the most egregious and only pardonable sin (shirk) in Mohammed's 7th century religion. Just as you have to reject all of the verses that describe the relationship between God the Father and His only Son (as you quoted), Jesus Christ.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0

But the term "begotten" certainly isn't all the compromised modern versions left out. That's why they keep being revised back toward the KJV. I don't know what kind of "scholars" you are quoting (likely another Ahmed Deedat lie) but let's look at the Koine Greek word translated as begat and begotten

(KJV) 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

The reference to "Him that begat" is of course a reference to God and "that is begotten of him" to Jesus Christ and His having been conceived by a virgin by the will of God. Of course nothing to do with God actually having sex with Mary, as some 7th century desert dwelling illiterate might imagine, yet Mary did conceive God's only begotten Son. Even Muslims believe Jesus was uniquely created, in just this way, from all other people born in the history of the world. They would say that God said "be", and Mary became pregnant with Jesus.

The Greek word translated as "begat" from Strong's definitions:

him that begat
New Testament Greek Definition:
1080 gennao {ghen-nah'-o}
from a variation of 1085; TDNT - 1:665,114; v
AV - begat 49, be born 39, bear 2, gender 2, bring forth 1,
be delivered 1, misc 3; 97
1) of men who fathered children
1a) to be born
1b) to be begotten
1b1) of women giving birth to children
2) metaph.
2a) to engender, cause to arise, excite
2b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his
way of life, to convert someone
2c) of God making Christ his son
2d) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work

We can see from the word count that the Greek word "gennao" is translated as "begat" (or "begotten") 49 times in the King James bible.
To make the preposterously ignorant claim that it is translated wrong in the above verse, would obviously require that ALL 49 INSTANCES OF IT WERE TRANSLATED WRONG because "gennao" is the same word used in each instance.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

Old Testament prophecy:
Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

New Testament:

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Jhn 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jhn 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Jhn 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hbr 5:5  So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jo 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

You are just too hung up on a word that Mohammed was too illiterate to understand and conceptualize.

[Peter]

Now you are telling me that Jesus (pbuh) is a begotten son of God?

It's about what the Word of God tells us. If God didn't cause Mary to conceive Jesus, who did?

Prove to me from the lips of Jesus (pbuh) that he said so! If you cannot and of surety you cannot then expect to be roasted in the Hellfire for blasphemy against God whom Jesus (pbuh) as his Father.

But it is you and the rest of Mohammed's Islamic beast that blaspheme God, just as prophesied. Even exchanging God's name for the name of the pagan moon god rock idol of the Ka'aba that you bow to 5 times a day.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

YOU SAID: Almost forgot this. Muammar Qaddafi tried to run away from the hadith like you are too. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=892.0

REPLY: Again, I think you missed what I said in my first email. That we should ONLY discuss pure dogma and tenet of our belief .......

That's what I did, through Islamic scholars from the most prestigious Islamic university in the world, in regard to your trying to distance yourself from the hadith.

"Libya's leader MuammaQaddafi once declared that he no longer believed in anything besides the Quran and that he had abandoned all of the prophet Mudammad's teachings (hadith).

The Islamic world was shocked. Islamic scholars at Al-Azhar University in Egypt and other Islamic authorities in Saudi Arabia were disturbed greatly. The world of Islam formed a committee of scholars to go and meet with Libya's leader so they could discuss the matter with him personally.

Sheikh Mohammed Al-Gazoly, a scholar from Al-Azhar University, led the committee to Libya. The committee warned the Libyan leader about the result of his decision. They told him that if he did not repent and take back his statement, he would fall under the law of renegades and infidels. They said that according to Al-Qaeda Al-Faquhia he was denying many of the Islamic truths, which would force true Muslims to kill him. In light of this information, the leader of Libya repented and took back his statement. The committee went back from Libya to Cairo and announced Qaddafi's decision to repent to the whole Islamic world."

..... and NOT resort to the usual Youtube mud-slinging and character assassination of the Last Prophet (pbuh)......

But it is Islam's books that assassinate Mohammed's character. Like rape of still-married prisoners.

Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:...

In regard to dogma you can pretend that Islamic dogma is anything you want it to be.
You could also pretend that Roman Church dogma represents Christianity, but according to the Word of God it doesn't.
We need to stick to dogma or tenants only as they are confirmed by our respective books, and stick to our books themselves.

...... or any of the Muslims, past and present, ordinary or ruler. Because at the end of the day, the followers of my faith and yours cannot be used to judge the truth of the dogma and tenet of our respective religions.

Indeed. However if you are already trying to excuse away violent Muslims you will fail, because according to the Quran and hadith and 1400 years of Islamic history, they are the guys that GET Islam, and try hardest to copy the behavior of Mohammed, as revealed through your own books.

That as directly opposed to Christian behavior from following Jesus Christ.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I urge you to please stick to pure dogma and tenet like God, Salvation, Sin and others. But since you punched below the belt, I have to respond.

I'll stick to the books.

[Peter]

You see, your famous president, Thomas Jefferson, in his writings entitled Works, he ran away from Paul and considered him to be a destroyer of the teaching of Jesus.

You broke your own rule in the very next sentence.

Let your President say it to you: "Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Corypheus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus" (Works, Vol. iv, p. 327)). Even Jesus, he almost consider him as an impostor: "If we could believe that he [Jesus] really countenanced the follies, the falsehoods, and the charlatanism which his biographers [Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John,] father on him, and admit the misconstructions, interpolations, and theorizations of the fathers of the early, and the fanatics of the latter ages, the conclusion would be irresistible by every sound mind that he was an impostor" (Works, Vol. iv, p. 325)..

Sorry but I do now want to bring your dead president to speak to you but you punched below the belt and I have to respond in kind. Next time, please do not do this again because every repository of antics you have is found in me too. Deal?

Why would it matter to me what Jefferson had to say? Are you trying to suggest that quoting the hadith is hitting below the Islamic belt? That would make you a "renegade" "infidel", according to Islamic scholars.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=892.0

[Peter]

What you are doing now is making mockery of Jesus (pbuh) and you are blaming Islam for it.

Quoting the Word of God is not making a mockery of Jesus. Rejecting ALL of God's prophets and witnesses as they are revealed in His 1600 year record, that God's people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years, to follow the 23 year, 7th century record, of A SINGLE "prophet" who has no fulfilled prophecy, who not a single person ever heard "Allah's" or Gabriel's voice speak to, who never performed a single miracle, whose Ka'aba god even gave him special "revelations" to heap on himself all the wives he wanted - but only for him - and gave him another revelation to enable him to steal his monogomous step-son's only wife, is making a mockery of Jesus, my friend.