Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

Thanks my honest friend,

and ok  ,i will answer you about your question ,how is (Does God have a Spirit?),but give me my time because i will be very busy in the next 48 hour (much work ),and you aren't bound to answer me about my last sharing,it's over my friend ,because you are refusing to understand ,but you must know after this that i will not be never here again like what i told you before ok?

please watch.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qTMx2ioTPyE


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fQjvf0x1JSc


Are those the religion man which you are take the teachings from them?
do you think they are trust source about what they say ?
in the other way you didn't find any scandals for Islamic propagandist on the contrary  thanks god all of them is God fearing.



and look at this  poor man ,you was told me no Christian convert to Islam

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JbhUReyfwcY

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=73EfykhtXsE&feature=related

i am so sorry for  you my friend  .

sorry peter?
which part you talking about?
anyway i allow to you to do what you want , i  really trust you my friend  but if you please don't delete anything of my answering , and i told you i will leaving and it's over

anyway it was so nice to talking with you.

I am sorry peter ,i really lost my time with you ,maybe this sharing will be the last sharing to me here ,your brain is washed  my friend ,and you don't have any convincing  argument except THE  VERSES OF YOUR BIBLE,and some videos ,this is not an equivalent conversation.
YOU TRY TO  persuade me by something i am not recognized it,you are refuse to let your  mind working ,I can bring you million of evidence from Qouran proof to you that Jesus was not the son of god ,but because i know that you are not recognized Quran i talk with you by the logic ,but you are determined to proof to me by the something who i don't confessor it,and this is waster time.
you can't make a logically conversation because as i told you before ((you are like all other Christians,they don't understand your faith,and all of you is  commit to memory but not understand )))

anyway i will answer you about some of your question because this object not deserve to effort or lose my time for it .

1- AND YOU DIDN'T ANSWER ME TOO WHY YOU DIDN'T  SAY THAT EVE WAS A GOD TOO?

Where does the bible say that Eve was a God? It does say this:

as usual you don't trying to let your mind working, but your bible is the only source for your mind,you don't try to help yourself to arrive to truth,anyway my answer is.
How Jesus says in the bible if Eve was a god or not , if he wasn't originally not a god , because the miracle which description him as a god ,is equally with the miracle of Eve created ? so what is the reason that make him a son of god but she is not ? and if he not a god then why we must believe him if he didn't say about she is god in the bible??or the measure of the divinity is just because  he say that he is son of god?? thus every one can say that he is son of god and we must believe him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so what is the reason for the divinity of Jesus? because was born miraculously ?Eve also born with miracle like him ,and
the bible don't say that Eve was a god because, the bible not the real book from god,if really god say that Jesus is son of him then he must say too that Eve a daughter of him,but god never say that Jesus  a son of him,  if it is then it must say that Eve was a god too, because Eve and Jesus was born with great miracles,but the bible want to give the quality of divinity only for Jesus  .
and if you tell she is not a god because the bible don't say that she ,i will tell you if the bible say that Jesus is son of god i will tell you that bible is lying book because Eve must be a god too ,with  point of view of your faith ,I am not discussing you now what the Bible says , and this is proof that the Bible is not come from god , because if this kind of creation is the evidence of divinity , then bible must tell that Eve  was a god too like Jesus.




2 - Whatever blasphemy you are trying to peddle, I don't understand and don't need to. You can see all of the verses that call Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. Your false prophet said this:
YES THIS IS THE POINT (YOU DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND,OR  specifically AFRAID TO UNDERSTAND)

YOU SAY (Christians don't convert to Islam. It's impossible because we are guided by the Holy Ghost Christians posers - who don't understand what a Christian is, that falsely believe that if a priest sprinkles water on your head as an infant it makes you a Christian - "covert" to islam. In the U.S. 3/4 of those that convert to Islam leave within a few years. Figure the 1/4 that don't are women that are stuck with kids from a Muslim husband.
)


IS yusuf estes AND ALL THE OTHER OF FORMER PRIESTS TOO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE Christians ?you didn't never find propagandist muslim convert to Christianty ,but you find many PRIESTS convert to islam.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pn0iPlWQNlI
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Toe4izlsPho
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OfZYveEHc&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ANt5b0ITW_8


((( and  you must see this too )))
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BAoYUkmxXSs&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EamNk1i0hqE&feature=related


SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THiS PEOPLE TOO???ALL OF THiS AND MORE DON'T UNDERSTAND Christianty and only you do? no my friend they understand Christianty and islam more than you,but you in a deep deep dark
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx6JMMYiME0
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7j0z7_J2XBk
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wnQRPfpqkSI
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HAPdXDlLdXk
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RkhBYryljl0
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=r5yTPLVmuLA
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4L4rWY3bFcM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=10iINdTVWFg





3- IF The Father and Son are ONE LIKE WHAT YOU SAY
SO WHY Jesus TELL THAT?

jon 20:17


17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


----- What is meant by the words of Jesus ( my God)? is the speaker here is the Jesus son of Mary ? Yes, of course .. then a Jesus have a God too, because he says my "God" ,he is equal with his students in servitude of God ,so he is servant of god like his Students completely , this is what Jesus saying without altering or misrepresentation -----


jon 8:40

40  But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.




Jon 17:3

3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent


. Joh 13:16  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

WHO IS the god sent them to us? answer your by yourself -.yes the messengers of him.

Mt 27:46
46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Is he ask himself to save himself here? if Jesus is god  ,so why he say my god? why he didn't save himself by himself?



Lu 23:46
46  And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost

.
His spirit is separate  of god spirit, don't like what you say.


peter,believe me i swear i really very sad for you ,i feel that you are a religiousness man and that's good and i respect it,but unfortunately you are
walk in wrong way ,i am so sorry for you,god save you my friend.


finally i think that's enough, no something desire hard work more ,you are hopeless case my friend.
try to check your religion Certified again,and compile all what i was say to you ,and let your mind working ,maybe god light your way ,how knows?

AND YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE WORSHIP GOD:THE FATHER AND HIS SON JESUS,BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU WHERE THE POSITION OF THIS FATHER IN YOUR FAITH?ALL THE CHRISTIANS WORSHIP JESUS AND FORGET THIS alleged FATHER!!!! YOU ARE FORGET THE CREATOR BY THE SOMEONE HOW CREATE HIM !!!

and you didn't answer me about(where the JESUS say in bible i am a god and WORSHIP  me?)please answer.

AND YOU DIDN'T ANSWER ME TOO WHY YOU DIDN'T  SAY THAT EVE WAS A GOD TOO?
AND YOU TELL ME ADAM CREATED FROM DUST IT'S OK BUT HOW DO YOU DON'T KNOW
THAT JESUS WAS CREATED BY THE SAME WAY???
THE BIBLE DON'T SAY ABOUT THE WAY who GOD CREATE JESUS BY IT !!!

Lu 1:30  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Lu 1:34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Lu 1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

NOTE (((( YOU TOLD ME THAT ALL OF YOU SON OF GOD))))THIS IS NOT EVIDENCE.

Lu 1:38  And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT GOD DIDN'T CREATE JESUS  by throw DUST  OR WATER OR AIR OR ANYTHING ELSE  IN MARY WOMB ?? OR MAYBE FROM THE RIB OF MARY LIKE EVE HOW DO YOU KNOW?  DO YOU KNOW ALL THE  omnipotence OF GOD? DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE?

without SAY GOD SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME THAT ALL OF YOU SON OF GOD.

you say that you and all Christian is son of god ,But there is ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD

what is the BEGOTTEN ? BEGOTTEN is case which  bring the SONS to life.

ok ,let us see what the meaning of BEGOTTEN word  will lead us, when everyone born from man he call the son of THIS man ,

what the meaning of BEGOTTEN  ? it's meaning he got this son,so the word son and BEGOTTEN is description for case which THE  son

come to life through it ,so the meaning of son of man= man BEGOTTEN these son,

if you  all ARE THE sons of god = god WHO IS BEGOTTEN you all.

if Jesus WHO WAS BEGOTTEN BY GOD = THAT'S also he is his son too

THE SON BEGOTTEN BY HIS FATHER.

THE FATHER BEGOTTEN HIS SON.

THEY ARE IN THE SAME MEANING

thence ,you and Jesus  come from the same father, now WE must have TWO results , all of you is gods , or Jesus was a human like you!!!

SORRY FRIEND ,THERE IS NOT ANY MEANING OF WHAT YOU SAY ,YOU JUST REPEATING WHAT YOU LEARN IN YOUR churches ,BUT I AM SURE TAT YOU ARE NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAY,DO YOU KNOW WHY MOST Christian CONVERT TI ISLAM? THAT IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND the faith of Trinity   ,  belive me peter i have many CHRISTIANS  friends and they all don't  understand this faith  too,and they thinking to convert to islam but they still  hesitate just for  habituation to be  CHRISTIANS  .

HOW GOD BE  1  + 1  + 1=1 ?
All we know that  1 +1+ 1=3

and Jesus  is son of god and he  is ONLY ONE he BEGOTTEN him !!!!
and you all the sons of god but he didn't BEGOTTEN you !!!

the CHRISTIANITY is the faith which contradict itself.

AND WHEN THEY ASK THE priest TO UNDERSTAND THEN HE TELL TO HIM THIS IS THE BIG SECRET OF GOD AND YOU MUST BELIEVE TIES, JUST BELIEVE  !!!! THE MOST OF Christian IS keeping THE INFORMATION LIKE WHAT HE receive IT BUT THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT,AND WHEN THEY TRY TO EXPLAIN THEM FAITH,THEY TELL I BELIEVE TIES BECAUSE GOD SAY TIES,OR BRING SOME OF TEXT FROM BIBLE ,  BUT THEY DON'T TRY TO THINKING BY OPEN MINDED ,the relation between god and people must more simple from that.

(QURAN NEVER CHANGED FROM PERIOD OF MOHAMED TELL NOW)

ABOUT (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). in Quran
it was just A LICENSE FROM ALLAH to Mohamed , AND THIS HAPPENED during HIS LIFE. During HE compilation THE Quran.

and all the verses what you see it in the article all verses that were abrogated by the the other verse from allah too ,that's during Mohamed's life and compilation THE Quran.


Surah 2: 106
"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?"



Surah 16 (AL-NAHL) Verse 101
When We substitute one revelation for another,- and God knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

and all the  verses that were abrogated by another verses like what god say,and god is free with his words ,Mohamed just was a messenger of him,and this abrogated for the some verses that is another proof to you  about what i was say to you before,about what the way of god take with people to change his life and habits,he want to make this change come steep by steep throw the change verses,until Mohamed compilation THE Quran


and after the revelation and the Quran complete Mohamed say.
and it never happened any Abrogator for any verses  after that.

Surah 5 (AL-MAEDA) Verse 3
Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than God; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me.)(((( This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you,)))) and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


BUT IN THE OTHER side,

YOUR GOD cautious YOU IN THE BIBLE TO CHANGE OR DELETE ANY WORD FROM THE BIBLE  ((no wise pass from the law))
AND THIS IS NOT HAPPENED  during the life of JESUS TO APPROVE IT LIKE WHAT MOHAMED DID BY PERMISSION FROM OUR GOD.
Mt 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

MAT 24:35
35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

ISA:40 :8
8  The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

SO YOUR GOD emphasize TO NOT DELETE ANY WORD FROM HIS BOOK ,BUT OUR GOD ALLOW TO MOHAMED TO DO THAT during HIS life, DURING recording THE QURAN THERE IS NO ANY SIMILARITY BETWEEN TIES CASE.

you  don't have any capable to understand me,i am sorry for you.
GOD SAVE YOU MY FRIEND. 

You bring  me these Sura 8:12 and ignore all the verses in the Old Testament which god ask people it to do the  horrible crime ,why you always look to others and don't look to yourselves??(these Sura in fight case) like what you say about the Old Testament, the prophets laid down swords, or suggestion of the use of the sword in God's service,Islam too the same thing
and why you ignore what god say too???

Surah 2 (AL-BAQARA) Verse 190
Fight in the cause of God those (((who fight you))), but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.


   
    Surah 9 (AL-BARA'AH) Verse 36

The number of months in the sight of God is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together(((( as they fight you all ))))together. But know that God is with those who restrain themselves.

(((( muslims don't start to fight anyone without they fight them )))


Surah 60 (AL-MUMTAHINA) Verse 8

God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.


you are really ignore every thing good in Islam,oh dear you are in deep dark -and you don't never understanding anything about islam and Muslims ,not me!!!!!!

Ask God  for you  to save you from the evil of yourself.

believe me believe i swear that i love you and respect you too,for this reason i try to save your soul from the hell,so you didn't answering me why you didn't call Adam and Eve a son of god too or god?!!!!and about  Luke, Matthew , mark and john RE THEY be a contemporary of Jesus  to be witness in his rising or crucifixion? or his saying that he is a son of god?this idea that Jesus  is son of god come from a legends of Greek  which was ruling in this period see the what the legends of DIONYSUS say about him,and what the similarity between him and Jesus  .


DIONYSUS was known as a son of Zeus = Jesus  son of god
Dionysus sometimes has the epithet  ,
1 -Acratophorus by which he was designated as the giver of unmixed wine,
Jesus is in some way a manifestation of Dionysus, but the parallels are complex and deep.

2 -"goat killer", was the name under which he was worshiped at Potniae in Boeotia .
(((Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God)))

3 -  As Aesymnetes ("ruler" or "lord") he was worshipped at Aro' and Patrae in Achaea.the same names with Jesus  .


1. Both were the sons of father Gods:
Dionysus-Zeus
Jesus-Yahweh (God)

2. Both were born to mortal mothers:
Dionysus-Semele
Jesus-Mary

3. Both faced persecution from secular authorities:
Dionysus-Pentheus
Jesus-Pontius Pilate

4. Both had similar messages/philosophies:
Dionysus-a lover of peace, upheld the poor, and challenged the prevailing social hierarchy
Jesus-message was to love one another, upheld the poor, and directly challenged the prevailing social heirarchy

5. Both were healers, miracle workers, and associated with eternal salvation

the god Dionysos in a ritual enactment of his myth of life, death and rebirth,like Jesus  

Like Jesus, Dionysus is a God in human form, who dies and is resurrected, born of a mortal mother by a divine father.


"There are paintings here [in the temple of Dionysos at Athens] -- Dionysus bringing Hephaistos up to heaven." - Pausanias, Guide to Greece 1.20.2-3


Dionysos  was have dual nature divin and  humanity like Jesus  .



"Mortals who were made immortal ... Liber [Dionysos], son of Jove [Zeus] and Semele." - Hyginus, Fabulae 224

= son of god Mary Jesus  

and there was  The myth of Osiris (son of god)too,the similar story with
Jesus   and  Dionysos   too.

all of this legends was ruling in this period because the backwardness scientific and civilized ,but now we are live in new generation,still believe these legends ?
Can anyone journey to the world of the dead and come back?"
there is.

 
    Surah 112 (AL-IKHLAS) Verse 1
Say: He is God, the One and Only;God, the Eternal, Absolute;He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;And there is none like unto Him.
-------------------------
finally dear friend, you must thinking and thinking,iwill not tell you anything other than,
i will ask god to save you and light your heart and your way to the right way, to Islam.
god with you my friend.

that all of your effort seems to be expended on trying to paint the God of the bible, and Jesus Christ, to be evil?



trying to paint the God of the bible, and Jesus Christ, to be evil?

(((  i really wondering pete,isn't this what do you trying to do with Islam !! ?? )))

why is it permissible to you and forbidden to me?!!! by which logic you are thinking?


anyway ,no my friend that's not true ,but all what i try to proof too you that if i really misunderstand the bible and Christianity ,mostly you are too misunderstand Islam and Quran (that's a good result 1 + 1 =2)that's right?   

thanks my friend,


about this link ,

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.msg148#msg148

i am sorry to tell you that i am not believe this verses of bible which call that Jesus is son of god.
I believe that the real  Bible is the Word of God, however, I believe that the Bible was also "tainted" by man (priest Jerome ).

i believe the other verses which  learning a nobility of character  because it's logically that come from god, anyway this is not a good way to persuasion me.
do you know my friend when the first time all the people decided  that Jesus is son of god?
After 300 years of the death of Jesus, the caesar Kstuntin issued the decree-law to the church about the law of faith , highly ordered from him to make Jesus the Son of God ,
Luke, Matthew and mark  wrote them Gospel of Jesus after almost two generations of Jesus  die.
john was his first appearance after three generations of the death of Jesus
nobody from people how live with Jesus write the bible ,but Luke, Matthew , mark and john, all of them write the bible inspire with the law of faith  who decree-law caesar Kstuntin issued it.
that the Bible has been altered, to greater and lesser degrees, by man , how God allows this!!!

The following WHOLE verses have been removed in the NIV--whether in the text or footnotes...over 40 IN ALL!!!
Matthew 12:47 -- removed in the footnotes

Matthew 17:21 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

Matthew 18:11 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

Matthew 21:44 -- removed in the footnotes

Matthew 23:14 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

Mark 7:16 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."

Mark 9:44 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Mark 9:46 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Mark 11:26 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Mark 15:28 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And the ******ure was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."

Mark 16:9-20 (all 12 verses) -- There is a line separating the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text. Right under the line it says: [The two most reliable early manu******s do not have Mark 16:9-20] (NIV, 1978 ed.) The Jehovah's Witness "Bible" also places the last 12 verses of Mark as an appendix of sorts.

Luke 17:36 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Luke 22:44 -- removed in the footnotes

Luke 22:43 -- removed in the footnotes

Luke 23:17 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)"

John 5:4 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."

John 7:53-8:11 -- removed in the footnotes

Acts 8:37 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. It's deletion makes one think that people can be baptized and saved without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Sounds Catholic. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Acts 15:34 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."

Acts 24:7 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,"

Acts 28:29 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."

Romans 16:24 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."


I John 5:7 -- Vitally important phrase COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. In the NIV it says,
"For there are three that testify:"
Compare the NIV reading with the following Jehovah's Witness reading--
"For there are three witness bearers,"
What are you NIV readers missing? What does the real Bible say?
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one


See this link and be sure there is noone can counterfeiting  the history
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

====================================================================================




about the second link .

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

I DON'T AGREE WITH HOW TELL THAT  God had carnal sexual relations with Mary.(peace be upon here)
It this is just theory to show  and proof to you that is your faith is not logically, but all Muslims know that Mary become pregnant by the Holy Spirit (Gabriel)



i find your Question there.
YOU ASK If God wasn't Jesus' Father, and Jesus wasn't God's Son, then who is Jesus Father? Before you ask how is the Jesus Father
I must ask if you know how is the Eve mother?
Or know how is the Adam father and mother?

If you are consider Jesus is Son of God  because he was born without a father ,
then  consider Adam as the first god because he was born without any mother or father , but Jesus  was have a mother ,
and Eve as well must be a god  because  she created with strangest creation more than Adam and Jesus  , she was created from Adam's rib ,

God created human beings by different way to show us his ability ,
- created Adam without male or female,
- and created Jesus from female without male .
- and the created  Eve from male without a female (from Adam)
- and created all human beings from male and a female ,because he is god, he is the lord ,he don't ask about what he did but he ask as what we did

if you can know who is the father and mother of Adam, or who is the mother of Eve, then we can know who is the father of Jesus. could you know?
Please show me where in the Bible it says that Jesus said he is God and worship me?

Jhon 17:3
3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Ro 1:23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
all what we know about Mary in Quran

it That does not mean that Jesus was born without a father , that meaning he was a son of god!!! all we know about Jesus's father  in the Quran is what god say to us about Mary .


Surah 19 (MARYAM) Verse 17:18:19:20:21


She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (God) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear God."
He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."


and the meaning of (god spirit)here is angel Gabriel,the greater angels
he don't like the other angels.
here is the proof tat spirit meaning angel

Surah 78 (AL-NABA') Verse 38
The Day that the Spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right.

and

Surah 97 (AL-QADR) Verse 4
Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by God's permission, on every errand:

that's like what bible say too,but in the bible

luke 27:37

27  To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29  And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31  And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36  And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37  For with God nothing shall be impossible.

every thing like the Quran but the last part was changed,to  make Jesus be like a god

if you are believe that god is the most fair god,so how you believe that he bring a body for an innocent man to hold the sins of other? think about !!! is anyone can holding a sins of others? is your god is unjust?allah say :God created the heavens and the earth for just ends, and in order that each soul may find the recompense of what it has earned, and none of them be wronged.

note for pete Islamtruth333 is another ACCOUNT for me.

1 - who told you that i bring the verse from the Internet ?no pete i was read the bible more than 10 times and it is stay on my room beside the quran book.
2 - if you don't confess by the King James Version,the most trust source and international  translation of the bible,then what is the source how are trust  it!!!,and this lead us to that every translation of the bible is wrong too because the translation of King James is the worldwide copy,which all people with a different mother tong learning the bible via it.
in other version:
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." (Luke 19:27)

no dear,you are lying and mislead yourself,Luke 19:27 not meaning anything alse except that Jesus  recommended to bring the enemies of him and slay [them] before him. (slay or kill )all of them didn't any meaning alse expect (kill),but you are try to ignore the   truth  just to stickling ,and took that bible come with kind teachings, and quran come with devilish teachings.

3 - if you return the verse  to the Greek text go th this link to be sour what the meaning by slay in Greek  text.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Luk&chapter=19&verse=27&version=KJV#27

this link from the same site which you are advise to visit it, because based on the Textus Receptus or majority Greek text.

in  Blue Letter Bible
Dictionary Results for "Slay, Slain, Slew"

Strong's Number: 2695     Greek: katasphazo

Slay, Slain, Slew:
"to kill off" (kata, used intensively, and No. 3), is used in Luk 19:27. In the Sept., Eze 16:40; Zec 11:5.



you who tell this words i,sn't you?
In fact, even in the Old Testament, the prophets laid down swords, or suggestion of the use of the sword in God's service, 1500 years before Mohamed was born.
here is my  opposite proof about what you say ,the old Testament is full of the crime fights (just for destruction)
EZ 4:7
4  And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5   And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6  Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
7  And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

Des 20:10
10   When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11  And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
12  And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
13  And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
14  But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

i think that's enough to proof how much  the old
Testament was bloody book ,and Jesus   don't refuse this verses ,but he say
MT 5:17:18:19
17   Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


On the other hand, Jesus promoted  killed innocent children (Rev. 2:23)

The Book of Revelations depicts Jesus as a child-killer. 
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. (Revelations 2:22-23)


and don't tell me he tell that because she was a adulteress women,because you are blaming Islam when he say punish the adulteress  man and the adulteress  women ,Islam don't order to kill them  innocent children ,but order to punish  the people how commit the sin,wish  of them  is more fair?

The Prophet Muhammad loved children, he used to play with children, and spend lots of time with them. These Hadiths demonstrate the Prophet's deep compassionate love for children.

I went along with Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) at a time during the day but he did not talk to me and I did not talk to him until he reached the market of Banu Qainuqa`. He came back to the tent of Fatimah and said, "Is the little chap (meaning Al-Hasan) there?" We were under the impression that his mother had detained him in order to bathe him and dress him and garland him with sweet garland. Not much time had passed that he (Al-Hasan) came running until both of them embraced each other, thereupon Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "O Allah, I love him; love him and love one who loves him." (Muslim)
Anas ibn Malik (may Allah be pleased with him), the servant of the Prophet, had another recollection:

I never saw anyone who was more compassionate towards children than Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). His son Ibrahim was in the care of a wet nurse in the hills around Madinah. He would go there, and we would go with him, and he would enter the house, pick up his son and kiss him, then come back. (Muslim)
The Prophet's love for children was not restricted to his children and grandchildren. The scope of his mercy and affection embraced all children, and he showed the same interest and gentleness to his Companion's children. The following hadith narrated by Usamah ibn Zaid (may Allah be pleased with him) shows this humane aspect of the Prophet's personality:

Allah's Messenger used to put me on (one of) his thighs and put Al-Hasan ibn `Ali on his other thigh, and then embrace us and say, "O Allah! Please be merciful to them, as I am merciful to them." (Bukhari)
Some people who were not able to understand the power of expressing love to children wondered why the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) played with children and took such an interest in them. Narrated Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him),

Allah's Messenger kissed Al-Hasan ibn `Ali while Al-Aqra` ibn Habis At-Tamim was sitting with him . Al-Aqra` said, "I have ten children and have never kissed one of them." The Prophet cast a look at him and said, "Whoever is not merciful to others will not be treated mercifully." (Al-Bukhari)
The Prophet was always concerned about everyone's thought and feeling. The following hadith narrated by Anas ibn Malik (may Allah be pleased with him) proves his thoughtful character:

The Prophet said, "(It happens that) I start the prayer intending to prolong it, but on hearing the cries of a child, I shorten the prayer because I know that the cries of the child will incite its mother's passions." (Al-Bukhari)
The Prophet was always patient and considerate with children and took great pain not to hurt their tender feelings.

Narrated Abu Qatadah: "The Messenger of Allah came towards us while carrying Umamah the daughter of Abi Al-`As (Prophet's granddaughter) over his shoulder. He prayed, and when he wanted to bow, he put her down, and when he stood up he lifted her up." (Al-Bukhari)
In a another hadith,

but Mohamed and Quran  say:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion:  Truth stands out clear from error:  whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks.  And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.  (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

The laws of war in Islam:
Muslims are forbidden from attacking others who do not attack them:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.  (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
Fighting in the cause of GOD Almighty those who fight us is what "Jihad" is all about.  I can't go and kill a non-Muslim just because he is a non-Muslim.  That is absolutely forbidden in Islam:
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.  (Noble Quran 5:32)"
In regards to Jihad and fighting the hostile enemy, Allah Almighty Made it crystal clear in the Noble Quran about being peaceful to ordinary and peaceful non-Muslims, and being very hostile to the hostile enemy:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.  (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
finally pete ,you are right both of our beliefs  are opposite.
do you understand now pete,why Islam is the real and last religion from allah , all religion come to correct what's come before it,
but Muslims believe in all religion and all prophets and respect them all.
as god recommended us in Quran:
Surah 2 (AL-BAQARA) Verse 285
The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
and i told you before
when Jesus  come Jews refuse him,and when Mohamed come Christian refuse him too,but Islam the last religion,and Mohamed the last prophets,GOD DON'T WANT TO LEAD us ON ONE STEEP TO ALL WHAT HE WANT,BECAUSE THE world WAS sunken in dark,AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT  TO ANY PROPHET change ALL THIS habits BY ONE STEEP,try to understand the real Islam without any hate or racism,and i am  sure that you will find it the religion how accept it all minds , hears and soul too .
God bless you my friend.

god say to Mohamed in Quran
Surah 43 (AZ-ZUKHRUF) Verse 81 82

Say: "If (God) Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship."
Glory to the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne (of Authority)! (He is free) from the things they attribute (to him)!