Luke 19:27 "...bring hither, and slay [them] before me."

[Pete]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKyQkiaqNPs
Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

Does this verse suggest that Jesus was engaged in, or taught, violence against others?

While Jesus is speaking, the words in the quoted verse above aren't attributable to Jesus. Jesus is delivering a parable and the words in the verse above are what Jesus is quoting the "nobleman" in His story as saying. It's obvious in the context below.

It is important to understand why Jesus spoke in parables:

Mar 4:9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.

Several Muslims I have encountered search the New Testament for something that Jesus preached, or did, that was more violent than overturning the tables of the moneychangers. The reason being that they wish that Jesus was guilty of the things that their imperialistic 7th century "prophet" Mohammed was. But they are taught through the Quran that Jesus was absolutely sinless, so such a search is really quite misguided for a Muslim to undertake. Mohammed was, and taught, the EXACT OPPOSITE of Yeshua (means "YHWH saves"). When I see such an exercise as this Luke 19:27 being removed from context and falsely presented, being repeated so frequently, I usually find that it has Ahmed Deedat's fingerprints all over it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=119.0

There is no excuse for being so lazy as to take someone's word for what the bible says, since access to electronic bibles is so easy. Just type a few words of a verse, or the book and verse number in the following link and you can read any verse in context: http://www.blueletterbible.org/
Default is the King James Version. The most widely used and respected English version, based on the Textus Receptus or majority Greek text - the "received text".

These folks put their effort into MISunderstanding God's Word and thus become straight-up accusers of Jesus Christ. Those are the last shoes that I would want to be caught dead in, when standing in judgment before Jesus Christ.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

But we should expect it:
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

So much effort is put into accusing Jesus that many like Ahmed Deedat in full knowledge FALSELY accuse Jesus then their minions follow like sheep. Let's look at the passage with a little more context:

Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this [man] to reign over us.
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, [here is] thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, [thou] wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give [it] to him that hath ten pounds.
Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.
Luk 19:28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

If you want to study with the Greek Textus Receptus Interlinear, a quick drop down menu can be found at this link: http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
(however I caution against using the New King James which that site uses as it's default bible)

This parable is a lesson in what we are expected to do with the gifts that God gives us. Simply summarized, we can hide or ignore them and suffer the consequences, or use them and multiply them and be rewarded.

Since there are no accounts of Jesus going to battle in the New Testament, except in the spiritual sense, or Jesus using a sword against anyone, or recommending using a sword against anyone indeed we are to love our enemies, so when we see reference to a sword it is usually a reference to the one that I carry and use throughout this forum and related websites:
 
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

In fact, even in the Old Testament, the prophets laid down swords, or suggestion of the use of the sword in God's service, 1500 years before Mohammed was born.

Jesus is going to return to earth. The following verse is a part of the description of the final harvest when EVERYONE will be sorted out:
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The message of the parable is also that Jesus will be as that nobleman in final judgment, to those that do not submit to His will, and allow Him to reign over them.

A parable is a story that Jesus used to illustrate a point. The passage above begins at the parable's beginning, and ends when Jesus finishes telling the story, and then heads up to Jerusalem.


God's Word cannot be understood by someone putting their effort into MISunderstanding. Here's why:
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

So we have to first surrender ourselves, and then put our effort into understanding, and ask God for guidance through the Holy Spirit. Jesus will help even the unregenerate with understanding, if they are willing to put their trust in Him.
This is particularly important regarding this parable passage.

Until we repent and are forgiven we can't expect to understand parables. But once we live a life with Christ Jesus, God's Holy Word opens up to us, and it is a wonderful blessing to see it like a giant woven tapestry. A time line that runs from the very beginnings of mankind, until we were given a new covenant through Jesus Christ's shed blood, through which all mankind may be saved.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it.

Indeed, the very term Jew would seem redefined, at least in the spiritual sense:
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

So as saved Christians it would seem that we may be more Jew, then even a genealogical Jew, that is an atheist or agnostic. While some regenerate Jews may have been prevented from recognizing Jesus as their Messiah:
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/spirit_of_slumber.htm

It all boils down to faith, and having such a love of the truth that we ferret out exactly where it lies. I was taught Christian futurist doctrine by a televangelist who has been on TV for over 50 years. I pounded it into myself with tapes and books for 12 or so years. At the time I was taught it I didn't even know any other view of Revelation existed in the church! Eventually, once I began to write about the doctrine, the Lord led me to overcome that pop-19th century eschatology, and it was truly a blessing. Today my bible study becomes ever clearer.

Here is a terrifying passage for those that don't share a love of the truth:

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUc_9pVUiI4

[believergod33]

1 - who told you that i bring the verse from the Internet ?no pete i was read the bible more than 10 times and it is stay on my room beside the quran book.
2 - if you don't confess by the King James Version,the most trust source and international  translation of the bible,then what is the source how are trust  it!!!,and this lead us to that every translation of the bible is wrong too because the translation of King James is the worldwide copy,which all people with a different mother tong learning the bible via it.
in other version:
 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." (Luke 19:27)

no dear,you are lying and mislead yourself,Luke 19:27 not meaning anything alse except that Jesus  recommended to bring the enemies of him and slay [them] before him. (slay or kill )all of them didn't any meaning alse expect (kill),but you are try to ignore the   truth  just to stickling ,and took that bible come with kind teachings, and quran come with devilish teachings.

3 - if you return the verse  to the Greek text go th this link to be sour what the meaning by slay in Greek  text.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Luk&chapter=19&verse=27&version=KJV#27

 this link from the same site which you are advise to visit it, because based on the Textus Receptus or majority Greek text.

in  Blue Letter Bible
Dictionary Results for "Slay, Slain, Slew"
 
Strong's Number: 2695     Greek: katasphazo

Slay, Slain, Slew:
"to kill off" (kata, used intensively, and No. 3), is used in Luk 19:27. In the Sept., Eze 16:40; Zec 11:5.



you who tell this words i,sn't you?
In fact, even in the Old Testament, the prophets laid down swords, or suggestion of the use of the sword in God's service, 1500 years before Mohamed was born.
here is my  opposite proof about what you say ,the old Testament is full of the crime fights (just for destruction)
EZ 4:7
4  And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5   And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6  Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
7  And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

Des 20:10
10   When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11  And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
12  And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
13  And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
14  But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

i think that's enough to proof how much  the old
Testament was bloody book ,and Jesus   don't refuse this verses ,but he say
MT 5:17:18:19
17   Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


On the other hand, Jesus promoted  killed innocent children (Rev. 2:23)

The Book of Revelations depicts Jesus as a child-killer. 
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. (Revelations 2:22-23)
 

and don't tell me he tell that because she was a adulteress women,because you are blaming Islam when he say punish the adulteress  man and the adulteress  women ,Islam don't order to kill them  innocent children ,but order to punish  the people how commit the sin,wish  of them  is more fair?

The Prophet Muhammad loved children, he used to play with children, and spend lots of time with them. These Hadiths demonstrate the Prophet’s deep compassionate love for children.
 
I went along with Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) at a time during the day but he did not talk to me and I did not talk to him until he reached the market of Banu Qainuqa`. He came back to the tent of Fatimah and said, “Is the little chap (meaning Al-Hasan) there?” We were under the impression that his mother had detained him in order to bathe him and dress him and garland him with sweet garland. Not much time had passed that he (Al-Hasan) came running until both of them embraced each other, thereupon Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “O Allah, I love him; love him and love one who loves him.” (Muslim)
Anas ibn Malik (may Allah be pleased with him), the servant of the Prophet, had another recollection:
 
I never saw anyone who was more compassionate towards children than Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). His son Ibrahim was in the care of a wet nurse in the hills around Madinah. He would go there, and we would go with him, and he would enter the house, pick up his son and kiss him, then come back. (Muslim)
The Prophet’s love for children was not restricted to his children and grandchildren. The scope of his mercy and affection embraced all children, and he showed the same interest and gentleness to his Companion’s children. The following hadith narrated by Usamah ibn Zaid (may Allah be pleased with him) shows this humane aspect of the Prophet’s personality:
 
Allah’s Messenger used to put me on (one of) his thighs and put Al-Hasan ibn `Ali on his other thigh, and then embrace us and say, “O Allah! Please be merciful to them, as I am merciful to them.” (Bukhari)
Some people who were not able to understand the power of expressing love to children wondered why the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) played with children and took such an interest in them. Narrated Abu Hurairah (may Allah be pleased with him),
 
Allah’s Messenger kissed Al-Hasan ibn `Ali while Al-Aqra` ibn Habis At-Tamim was sitting with him . Al-Aqra` said, “I have ten children and have never kissed one of them.” The Prophet cast a look at him and said, “Whoever is not merciful to others will not be treated mercifully.” (Al-Bukhari)
The Prophet was always concerned about everyone’s thought and feeling. The following hadith narrated by Anas ibn Malik (may Allah be pleased with him) proves his thoughtful character:
 
The Prophet said, “(It happens that) I start the prayer intending to prolong it, but on hearing the cries of a child, I shorten the prayer because I know that the cries of the child will incite its mother’s passions.” (Al-Bukhari)
The Prophet was always patient and considerate with children and took great pain not to hurt their tender feelings.
 
Narrated Abu Qatadah: “The Messenger of Allah came towards us while carrying Umamah the daughter of Abi Al-`As (Prophet’s granddaughter) over his shoulder. He prayed, and when he wanted to bow, he put her down, and when he stood up he lifted her up.” (Al-Bukhari)
In a another hadith,

but Mohamed and Quran  say:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion:  Truth stands out clear from error:  whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks.  And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.  (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

The laws of war in Islam:
Muslims are forbidden from attacking others who do not attack them:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.  (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
Fighting in the cause of GOD Almighty those who fight us is what "Jihad" is all about.  I can't go and kill a non-Muslim just because he is a non-Muslim.  That is absolutely forbidden in Islam:
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.  (Noble Quran 5:32)"
In regards to Jihad and fighting the hostile enemy, Allah Almighty Made it crystal clear in the Noble Quran about being peaceful to ordinary and peaceful non-Muslims, and being very hostile to the hostile enemy:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.  (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
finally pete ,you are right both of our beliefs  are opposite.
do you understand now pete,why Islam is the real and last religion from allah , all religion come to correct what's come before it,
but Muslims believe in all religion and all prophets and respect them all.
as god recommended us in Quran:
 Surah 2 (AL-BAQARA) Verse 285
The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
and i told you before
when Jesus  come Jews refuse him,and when Mohamed come Christian refuse him too,but Islam the last religion,and Mohamed the last prophets,GOD DON'T WANT TO LEAD us ON ONE STEEP TO ALL WHAT HE WANT,BECAUSE THE world WAS sunken in dark,AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT  TO ANY PROPHET change ALL THIS habits BY ONE STEEP,try to understand the real Islam without any hate or racism,and i am  sure that you will find it the religion how accept it all minds , hears and soul too .
God bless you my friend.

god say to Mohamed in Quran
 Surah 43 (AZ-ZUKHRUF) Verse 81 82

Say: "If (God) Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship."
Glory to the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne (of Authority)! (He is free) from the things they attribute (to him)!

[Pete]

1 - who told you that i bring the verse from the Internet ?no pete i was read the bible more than 10 times and it is stay on my room beside the quran book.

Welcome back believer.  :-)
I'll start here. What happens when you read the 115 or so verses in God's Word that declare Jesus to be the Son of God?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.msg148#msg148

Let alone the 10 that declare Him to be the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

[Pete]

2 - if you don't confess by the King James Version,the most trust source and international  translation of the bible,then what is the source how are trust  it!!!,and this lead us to that every translation of the bible is wrong too because the translation of King James is the worldwide copy,which all people with a different mother tong learning the bible via it.
in other version:
 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." (Luke 19:27)

I must be misunderstanding. You seem to be saying that bibles were translated FROM the King James into other languages, but this simply isn't so. The King James didn't come along until after 1600.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, and the New Testament was written in Koina Greek.

The bible was translated into many languages around the world even within the first few centuries after Jesus died on the Cross. That's why it's preposterous to think that it was corrupted to be the EXACT OPPOSITE of Mohammed's book that came along 5 centuries later. Someone would have had to change all those bibles in all those languages.
This thread discusses how our bible came to be: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0

The King James version is the very best English translation that we have, but there is even a little coloring of that by the Church of England. For example the Greek term translated as "Bishop" would better be translated as "overseer". That's why I recommend study in conjunction with the Greek Textus Receptus interlinear like the one on the drop-down menu here that also includes Strong's definitions for Greek words: http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
The KJV is based on the Greek Textus Receptus which is the majority Greek text, or "received text".

Most modern bible versions, by contrast, are based on a 19th century minority Greek text written by two spiritualists named Westcott and Hort and should be avoided. http://www.beholdthebeast.com/new_age_bible_versions.htm
The 19th century brought us most of our cults too: http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm#cults

Regarding the verse you quoted from another version, that works just as well.
Indeed I can't imagine that you read the original post, and still misunderstand so sorely. If you had read the original post you would have seen that this passage IS A PARABLE. It is a story that Jesus is telling to illustrate what we are expected to do with what God has given us, and what we might expect if we don't.
The reference to who is being slain is to those unregenerate who have not a love of the truth, have not served, and refuse to submit to the authority of THE SON OF GOD, Jesus Christ. This slaying will be when they are hewn down and cast into the lake of fire, at the end, when ALL are judged by the Son of God:
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

no dear,you are lying and mislead yourself,Luke 19:27 not meaning anything alse except that Jesus  recommended to bring the enemies of him and slay [them] before him. (slay or kill )all of them didn't any meaning alse expect (kill),but you are try to ignore the   truth  just to stickling ,and took that bible come with kind teachings, and quran come with devilish teachings.


3 - if you return the verse  to the Greek text go th this link to be sour what the meaning by slay in Greek  text.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Luk&chapter=19&verse=27&version=KJV#27

 this link from the same site which you are advise to visit it, because based on the Textus Receptus or majority Greek text.

in  Blue Letter Bible
Dictionary Results for "Slay, Slain, Slew"
 
Strong's Number: 2695     Greek: katasphazo

Slay, Slain, Slew:
"to kill off" (kata, used intensively, and No. 3), is used in Luk 19:27. In the Sept., Eze 16:40; Zec 11:5.

I never realized just how the absence of a love of the truth, is really a hatred of truth.
Even though, THE PASSAGE LABELS ITSELF TO BE A PARABLE, you refuse to believe that it is a parable!!!
Do you see how blind and especially OBSTINATE your understanding is?

Did they literally bring men before Jesus for Him to kill? Of course not. To believe this PARABLE to be literal is preposterous.

Jesus' parable is about FINAL JUDGMENT. Judgment of you and me and everyone else living and dead, my friend.

Those that have not a love of the truth WILL BE KILLED, WILL SUFFER THE SECOND DEATH at judgment time, for not submitting to the SON OF GOD, Jesus Christ.

I'll give you more time to read the original post.

[Pete]

you who tell this words i,sn't you?
In fact, even in the Old Testament, the prophets laid down swords, or suggestion of the use of the sword in God's service, 1500 years before Mohamed was born.
here is my  opposite proof about what you say ,the old Testament is full of the crime fights (just for destruction)
EZ 4:7

Thanks for the correction. I should have said 1200 years before Mohammed was born, not 1500. Ezekiel was carried into captivity in Babylon in 597 BC.
The book of Deuteronomy, of course, written long before that, at about 2,000 years before Mohammed was born.

Did you ever stop to wonder why it is, that all of your effort seems to be expended on trying to paint the God of the bible, and Jesus Christ, to be evil?

The term antichrist isn't just a word my friend. It is a spirit that guides the heart of a man.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=125.0

[believergod33]

thanks my friend,


about this link ,

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.msg148#msg148

i am sorry to tell you that i am not believe this verses of bible which call that Jesus is son of god.
I believe that the real  Bible is the Word of God, however, I believe that the Bible was also "tainted" by man (priest Jerome ).

i believe the other verses which  learning a nobility of character  because it's logically that come from god, anyway this is not a good way to persuasion me.
do you know my friend when the first time all the people decided  that Jesus is son of god?
After 300 years of the death of Jesus, the caesar Kstuntin issued the decree-law to the church about the law of faith , highly ordered from him to make Jesus the Son of God ,
 Luke, Matthew and mark  wrote them Gospel of Jesus after almost two generations of Jesus  die.
john was his first appearance after three generations of the death of Jesus
nobody from people how live with Jesus write the bible ,but Luke, Matthew , mark and john, all of them write the bible inspire with the law of faith  who decree-law caesar Kstuntin issued it.
that the Bible has been altered, to greater and lesser degrees, by man , how God allows this!!!

The following WHOLE verses have been removed in the NIV--whether in the text or footnotes...over 40 IN ALL!!!
Matthew 12:47 -- removed in the footnotes

Matthew 17:21 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

Matthew 18:11 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

Matthew 21:44 -- removed in the footnotes

Matthew 23:14 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

Mark 7:16 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."

Mark 9:44 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Mark 9:46 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Mark 11:26 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Mark 15:28 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And the ******ure was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."

Mark 16:9-20 (all 12 verses) -- There is a line separating the last 12 verses of Mark from the main text. Right under the line it says: [The two most reliable early manu******s do not have Mark 16:9-20] (NIV, 1978 ed.) The Jehovah's Witness "Bible" also places the last 12 verses of Mark as an appendix of sorts.

Luke 17:36 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Luke 22:44 -- removed in the footnotes

Luke 22:43 -- removed in the footnotes

Luke 23:17 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)"

John 5:4 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."

John 7:53-8:11 -- removed in the footnotes

Acts 8:37 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. It's deletion makes one think that people can be baptized and saved without believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Sounds Catholic. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Acts 15:34 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."

Acts 24:7 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,"

Acts 28:29 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."

Romans 16:24 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing?
"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."


I John 5:7 -- Vitally important phrase COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. In the NIV it says,
"For there are three that testify:"
Compare the NIV reading with the following Jehovah's Witness reading--
"For there are three witness bearers,"
What are you NIV readers missing? What does the real Bible say?
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one


See this link and be sure there is noone can counterfeiting  the history
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

====================================================================================




about the second link .

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

I DON'T AGREE WITH HOW TELL THAT  God had carnal sexual relations with Mary.(peace be upon here)
It this is just theory to show  and proof to you that is your faith is not logically, but all Muslims know that Mary become pregnant by the Holy Spirit (Gabriel)



i find your Question there.
YOU ASK If God wasn't Jesus' Father, and Jesus wasn't God's Son, then who is Jesus Father? Before you ask how is the Jesus Father
I must ask if you know how is the Eve mother?
Or know how is the Adam father and mother?

If you are consider Jesus is Son of God  because he was born without a father ,
then  consider Adam as the first god because he was born without any mother or father , but Jesus  was have a mother ,
and Eve as well must be a god  because  she created with strangest creation more than Adam and Jesus  , she was created from Adam's rib ,

God created human beings by different way to show us his ability ,
- created Adam without male or female,
- and created Jesus from female without male .
- and the created  Eve from male without a female (from Adam)
 - and created all human beings from male and a female ,because he is god, he is the lord ,he don't ask about what he did but he ask as what we did

if you can know who is the father and mother of Adam, or who is the mother of Eve, then we can know who is the father of Jesus. could you know?
Please show me where in the Bible it says that Jesus said he is God and worship me?

Jhon 17:3
3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Ro 1:23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
all what we know about Mary in Quran

it That does not mean that Jesus was born without a father , that meaning he was a son of god!!! all we know about Jesus's father  in the Quran is what god say to us about Mary .


 Surah 19 (MARYAM) Verse 17:18:19:20:21


She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (God) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear God."
He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."


and the meaning of (god spirit)here is angel Gabriel,the greater angels
he don't like the other angels.
here is the proof tat spirit meaning angel

 Surah 78 (AL-NABA') Verse 38
The Day that the Spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right.

and

 Surah 97 (AL-QADR) Verse 4
Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by God's permission, on every errand:

that's like what bible say too,but in the bible

luke 27:37

27  To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28  And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29  And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31  And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36  And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37  For with God nothing shall be impossible.

every thing like the Quran but the last part was changed,to  make Jesus be like a god

[believergod33]

that all of your effort seems to be expended on trying to paint the God of the bible, and Jesus Christ, to be evil?



trying to paint the God of the bible, and Jesus Christ, to be evil?

(((  i really wondering pete,isn't this what do you trying to do with Islam !! ?? )))

why is it permissible to you and forbidden to me?!!! by which logic you are thinking?


anyway ,no my friend that's not true ,but all what i try to proof too you that if i really misunderstand the bible and Christianity ,mostly you are too misunderstand Islam and Quran (that's a good result 1 + 1 =2)that's right?   

[Pete]

thanks my friend,


about this link ,

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.msg148#msg148

i am sorry to tell you that i am not believe this verses of bible which call that Jesus is son of god.

That's what makes you an antichrist, my friend.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

I believe that the real  Bible is the Word of God, however, I believe that the Bible was also "tainted" by man (priest Jerome ).

The reason I put links in posts is so I don't have to repeat myself. Discovery of some of the original papyrii in 1947 in Qumran, particularly from the book of Daniel demonstrate that God's Word was handed down to us very much intact.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0

The following WHOLE verses have been removed in the NIV--whether in the text or footnotes...over 40 IN ALL!!!

I am well aware of this. Many more than 40 verses were corrupted in that version. We have to seek out the truth. Christianity, and God's Word, has been under Satanic attack since the 1st century. Don't look for Satan to be convincing men to try to change the Quran. It is his book.

That is why I earlier warned you against relying on a modern pop-bible version like the NIV (which, incidentally is owned by Rupert Murdock) that is based on a corrupt 19th century minority Greek text written by two spiritualists (perhaps even satanists). Click on the following link for a real eye-popper: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=81.0

[Pete]

that all of your effort seems to be expended on trying to paint the God of the bible, and Jesus Christ, to be evil?



trying to paint the God of the bible, and Jesus Christ, to be evil?

(((  i really wondering pete,isn't this what do you trying to do with Islam !! ?? )))

why is it permissible to you and forbidden to me?!!! by which logic you are thinking?

I forbid you nothing believer33. You are perfectly at liberty to continue to paint Jesus as evil.
Where did I forbid you? Jesus Christ will be your judge. I'm trying to save you.

Muslims overturned thousands of cars because an artist drew a cartoon of Mohammed. If an artist draws a cartoon of Jesus Christ, all a Christian should do is feel sorry for that person, and pray to God that that person will repent before it's too late for them, and they are lost forever.

I paint Islam as evil because the Word of God clearly shows that it is. Islam IS THE OPPOSITE of God's Word and God's people. That's why Islam is an imperialistic blood thirsty cult, ever since Mohammed plundered his first caravan.
ONE MUST CHOOSE.
You paint Jesus Christ and the God of the bible as evil.
But you can't pretend to love Jesus when His Word clearly shows that you can't love Him:
1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

I hate Islam because I love you, believer33.

anyway ,no my friend that's not true ,but all what i try to proof too you that if i really misunderstand the bible and Christianity ,mostly you are too misunderstand Islam and Quran (that's a good result 1 + 1 =2)that's right?   

I don't misunderstand Islam. It is the OPPOSITE of Christianity.
Mark 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:  30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.  32  And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Compare:
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
Hadith: Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!

That's what made the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem the perfect compliment to Hitler. Watch the related videos here:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=113.0

My friend, it is you that doesn't understand Islam, but I understand the reasons that you can't see.
That doesn't mean you are not guilty. You can see how Islam caused you to treat Jesus in this very thread.

[Pete]

about the second link .

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

I DON'T AGREE WITH HOW TELL THAT  God had carnal sexual relations with Mary.(peace be upon here)

You misunderstand. Christians don't believe that God had sexual relations with Mary.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=110.0

It this is just theory to show  and proof to you that is your faith is not logically, but all Muslims know that Mary become pregnant by the Holy Spirit (Gabriel)

Do you see what you are calling "logical"?
That Muslims "know" that Mary became pregnant by the Holy Spirit is "logical'"?

Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

You can see it's not about logic, believer. It's about faith.

[believergod33]

believe me believe i swear that i love you and respect you too,for this reason i try to save your soul from the hell,so you didn't answering me why you didn't call Adam and Eve a son of god too or god?!!!!and about  Luke, Matthew , mark and john RE THEY be a contemporary of Jesus  to be witness in his rising or crucifixion? or his saying that he is a son of god?this idea that Jesus  is son of god come from a legends of Greek  which was ruling in this period see the what the legends of DIONYSUS say about him,and what the similarity between him and Jesus  .


DIONYSUS was known as a son of Zeus = Jesus  son of god
Dionysus sometimes has the epithet  ,
1 -Acratophorus by which he was designated as the giver of unmixed wine,
Jesus is in some way a manifestation of Dionysus, but the parallels are complex and deep.

2 -"goat killer", was the name under which he was worshiped at Potniae in Boeotia .
(((Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God)))

3 -  As Aesymnetes ("ruler" or "lord") he was worshipped at Aro' and Patrae in Achaea.the same names with Jesus  .


1. Both were the sons of father Gods:
Dionysus-Zeus
Jesus-Yahweh (God)

2. Both were born to mortal mothers:
Dionysus-Semele
Jesus-Mary

3. Both faced persecution from secular authorities:
Dionysus-Pentheus
Jesus-Pontius Pilate

4. Both had similar messages/philosophies:
Dionysus-a lover of peace, upheld the poor, and challenged the prevailing social hierarchy
Jesus-message was to love one another, upheld the poor, and directly challenged the prevailing social heirarchy

5. Both were healers, miracle workers, and associated with eternal salvation

the god Dionysos in a ritual enactment of his myth of life, death and rebirth,like Jesus  

Like Jesus, Dionysus is a God in human form, who dies and is resurrected, born of a mortal mother by a divine father.


"There are paintings here [in the temple of Dionysos at Athens] -- Dionysus bringing Hephaistos up to heaven." - Pausanias, Guide to Greece 1.20.2-3


Dionysos  was have dual nature divin and  humanity like Jesus  .



"Mortals who were made immortal ... Liber [Dionysos], son of Jove [Zeus] and Semele." - Hyginus, Fabulae 224

= son of god Mary Jesus  

and there was  The myth of Osiris (son of god)too,the similar story with
Jesus   and  Dionysos   too.

all of this legends was ruling in this period because the backwardness scientific and civilized ,but now we are live in new generation,still believe these legends ?
Can anyone journey to the world of the dead and come back?"
there is.

  
    Surah 112 (AL-IKHLAS) Verse 1
Say: He is God, the One and Only;God, the Eternal, Absolute;He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;And there is none like unto Him.
-------------------------
finally dear friend, you must thinking and thinking,iwill not tell you anything other than,
i will ask god to save you and light your heart and your way to the right way, to Islam.
god with you my friend.

[believergod33]

You bring  me these Sura 8:12 and ignore all the verses in the Old Testament which god ask people it to do the  horrible crime ,why you always look to others and don't look to yourselves??(these Sura in fight case) like what you say about the Old Testament, the prophets laid down swords, or suggestion of the use of the sword in God's service,Islam too the same thing
and why you ignore what god say too???

 Surah 2 (AL-BAQARA) Verse 190
Fight in the cause of God those (((who fight you))), but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.


   
    Surah 9 (AL-BARA'AH) Verse 36
 
The number of months in the sight of God is twelve (in a year)- so ordained by Him the day He created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred: that is the straight usage. So wrong not yourselves therein, and fight the Pagans all together(((( as they fight you all ))))together. But know that God is with those who restrain themselves.

 (((( muslims don't start to fight anyone without they fight them )))


 Surah 60 (AL-MUMTAHINA) Verse 8

God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.


you are really ignore every thing good in Islam,oh dear you are in deep dark -and you don't never understanding anything about islam and Muslims ,not me!!!!!!

Ask God  for you  to save you from the evil of yourself.

[Pete]

believe me believe i swear that i love you and respect you too,for this reason i try to save your soul from the hell,so you didn't answering me why you didn't call Adam and Eve a son of god too or god?!!!!

Adam was created from the dust of the earth. His body returned there too. What's to explain?

I am also A son of God. So were the Apostles and Christian men today:
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

But there is ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
You are the one that is being illogical.
YOU BELIEVE that NO MAN IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD WAS CONCEIVED THE WAY THAT JESUS WAS. By God's will. Yet you try to turn Him into just another prophet, because Mohammedanism makes you.

...and about  Luke, Matthew , mark and john RE THEY be a contemporary of Jesus  to be witness in his rising or crucifixion? or his saying that he is a son of god?[/color]

I showed you that the concept comes from God's Word. Christians are sons of God. But Jesus is the only begotten of the Father.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, they were all eye witnesses, as they reported. They wrote their books, letters and epistles in their lifetimes. Unlike Mohammed, they were literate.

You have to believe that they didn't exist, because otherwise you know that Mohammed was nothing more than a false prophet. That's because he was. Why on earth would you read a bible? You have to deny the entirety of the New Testament, and use the Old Testament for nothing more than trying to demonize God.

This is because you worship in the stand-alone, 7th century religion of Mohammedanism, that was conceived by a single false prophet that made the scene 5 centuries after the bible was closed.
I worship in the stand-alone religion of Christianity, that stands on the Old and New Testaments of God's Word and know that they are the inerrant Word of God. Sadly you are stuck calling God's book a lie, purely because of THE false prophet.

The Quran wasn't written until hundreds of years after Mohammed's death. It remains a big mess unto today. That's why it needs a rule of abrogation. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
It was also collected up, and various copies burned, on two separate occassions: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0

[/b]this idea that Jesus  is son of god come from a legends of Greek

No, it comes from the Word of God: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.msg148#msg148

which was ruling in this period see the what the legends of DIONYSUS say about him,and what the similarity between him and Jesus  .

Earlier you used atheists like Shaw and Marx to demonstrate the perfection of the Quran, and now you turn to paganism to defame God's Word.

At least by now YOU CAN SUFFER NO DELUSION. YOU WORSHIP IN THE STAND-ALONE 7TH CENTURY RELIGION OF MOHAMMEDANISM.

I do so pity you:

Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

[Pete]

You bring  me these Sura 8:12 and ignore all the verses in the Old Testament which god ask people it to do the  horrible crime ,why you always look to others and don't look to yourselves??

Mohammedans are stuck trying to justify the reprobate behavior of their 7th century false prophet, by going back 1200 years in the history of mankind to find anything even close. But NONE of the accounts of those Old Testament folks, even the most evil, can match the reprobate behavior of Mohammed, as bequeathed to us through the Islamic hadith and the Quran themselves. http://www.youtube.com/user/AhmadsQuran3

I DON'T IGNORE THE OLD TESTAMENT. But I recognize that the 1600 year record of how God chose to manifest Himself to mankind begins at mankind's very beginnings and steadily unfolds. I can't say why He chose to reveal Himself the way that He did, only THAT HE DID. As discussed earlier, 1200 years before Mohammed was born Old Testament prophets laid down their swords or suggestion of use of swords in God's service. Then Jesus was made manifest, and the world was given a new covenant in the New Testament through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament and old covenant.

You choose to follow the 23 year record of a single individual that preached and behaved in the exact opposite of what God revealed to us through His Word.

[believergod33]

AND YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE WORSHIP GOD:THE FATHER AND HIS SON JESUS,BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU WHERE THE POSITION OF THIS FATHER IN YOUR FAITH?ALL THE CHRISTIANS WORSHIP JESUS AND FORGET THIS alleged FATHER!!!! YOU ARE FORGET THE CREATOR BY THE SOMEONE HOW CREATE HIM !!!

and you didn't answer me about(where the JESUS say in bible i am a god and WORSHIP  me?)please answer.

AND YOU DIDN'T ANSWER ME TOO WHY YOU DIDN'T  SAY THAT EVE WAS A GOD TOO?
AND YOU TELL ME ADAM CREATED FROM DUST IT'S OK BUT HOW DO YOU DON'T KNOW
THAT JESUS WAS CREATED BY THE SAME WAY???
THE BIBLE DON'T SAY ABOUT THE WAY who GOD CREATE JESUS BY IT !!!

Lu 1:30  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Lu 1:34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Lu 1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

NOTE (((( YOU TOLD ME THAT ALL OF YOU SON OF GOD))))THIS IS NOT EVIDENCE.

Lu 1:38  And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT GOD DIDN'T CREATE JESUS  by throw DUST  OR WATER OR AIR OR ANYTHING ELSE  IN MARY WOMB ?? OR MAYBE FROM THE RIB OF MARY LIKE EVE HOW DO YOU KNOW?  DO YOU KNOW ALL THE  omnipotence OF GOD? DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE?

without SAY GOD SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME THAT ALL OF YOU SON OF GOD.

you say that you and all Christian is son of god ,But there is ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD

what is the BEGOTTEN ? BEGOTTEN is case which  bring the SONS to life.

ok ,let us see what the meaning of BEGOTTEN word  will lead us, when everyone born from man he call the son of THIS man ,

what the meaning of BEGOTTEN  ? it's meaning he got this son,so the word son and BEGOTTEN is description for case which THE  son

come to life through it ,so the meaning of son of man= man BEGOTTEN these son,

if you  all ARE THE sons of god = god WHO IS BEGOTTEN you all.

if Jesus WHO WAS BEGOTTEN BY GOD = THAT'S also he is his son too

THE SON BEGOTTEN BY HIS FATHER.

THE FATHER BEGOTTEN HIS SON.

THEY ARE IN THE SAME MEANING

thence ,you and Jesus  come from the same father, now WE must have TWO results , all of you is gods , or Jesus was a human like you!!!

SORRY FRIEND ,THERE IS NOT ANY MEANING OF WHAT YOU SAY ,YOU JUST REPEATING WHAT YOU LEARN IN YOUR churches ,BUT I AM SURE TAT YOU ARE NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAY,DO YOU KNOW WHY MOST Christian CONVERT TI ISLAM? THAT IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND the faith of Trinity   ,  belive me peter i have many CHRISTIANS  friends and they all don't  understand this faith  too,and they thinking to convert to islam but they still  hesitate just for  habituation to be  CHRISTIANS  .

HOW GOD BE  1  + 1  + 1=1 ?
All we know that  1 +1+ 1=3

and Jesus  is son of god and he  is ONLY ONE he BEGOTTEN him !!!!
and you all the sons of god but he didn't BEGOTTEN you !!!

the CHRISTIANITY is the faith which contradict itself.

AND WHEN THEY ASK THE priest TO UNDERSTAND THEN HE TELL TO HIM THIS IS THE BIG SECRET OF GOD AND YOU MUST BELIEVE TIES, JUST BELIEVE  !!!! THE MOST OF Christian IS keeping THE INFORMATION LIKE WHAT HE receive IT BUT THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT,AND WHEN THEY TRY TO EXPLAIN THEM FAITH,THEY TELL I BELIEVE TIES BECAUSE GOD SAY TIES,OR BRING SOME OF TEXT FROM BIBLE ,  BUT THEY DON'T TRY TO THINKING BY OPEN MINDED ,the relation between god and people must more simple from that.

(QURAN NEVER CHANGED FROM PERIOD OF MOHAMED TELL NOW)

ABOUT (the Abrogator and the Abrogated). in Quran
it was just A LICENSE FROM ALLAH to Mohamed , AND THIS HAPPENED during HIS LIFE. During HE compilation THE Quran.

and all the verses what you see it in the article all verses that were abrogated by the the other verse from allah too ,that's during Mohamed's life and compilation THE Quran.


Surah 2: 106
"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?"



Surah 16 (AL-NAHL) Verse 101
When We substitute one revelation for another,- and God knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

 and all the  verses that were abrogated by another verses like what god say,and god is free with his words ,Mohamed just was a messenger of him,and this abrogated for the some verses that is another proof to you  about what i was say to you before,about what the way of god take with people to change his life and habits,he want to make this change come steep by steep throw the change verses,until Mohamed compilation THE Quran


and after the revelation and the Quran complete Mohamed say.
and it never happened any Abrogator for any verses  after that.

 Surah 5 (AL-MAEDA) Verse 3
Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than God; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me.)(((( This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you,)))) and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


BUT IN THE OTHER side,

 YOUR GOD cautious YOU IN THE BIBLE TO CHANGE OR DELETE ANY WORD FROM THE BIBLE  ((no wise pass from the law))
AND THIS IS NOT HAPPENED  during the life of JESUS TO APPROVE IT LIKE WHAT MOHAMED DID BY PERMISSION FROM OUR GOD.
Mt 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

MAT 24:35
35  Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

ISA:40 :8
8  The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

SO YOUR GOD emphasize TO NOT DELETE ANY WORD FROM HIS BOOK ,BUT OUR GOD ALLOW TO MOHAMED TO DO THAT during HIS life, DURING recording THE QURAN THERE IS NO ANY SIMILARITY BETWEEN TIES CASE.

you  don't have any capable to understand me,i am sorry for you.
GOD SAVE YOU MY FRIEND. 

[Pete]

AND YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE WORSHIP GOD:THE FATHER AND HIS SON JESUS,BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU WHERE THE POSITION OF THIS FATHER IN YOUR FAITH?

The Father and Son are ONE:
John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

coexistent from the foundation of the world:
John 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Hebrews 9:26  For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

God is my Father. Jesus Christ - a part of God - is my intercessor:
Hbr 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Here are just a few examples to help you get the idea:
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=father&t=KJV&page=39
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=father&t=KJV&page=38
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=father&t=KJV&page=37

ALL THE CHRISTIANS WORSHIP JESUS AND FORGET THIS alleged FATHER!!!! YOU ARE FORGET THE CREATOR BY THE SOMEONE HOW CREATE HIM !!!

But it's foolish for you to think you understand what a Christian believes. The proof of this is in the search links immediately above.
You've never really read the bible have you. If you had, I don't know how you could be so wrong.

and you didn't answer me about(where the JESUS say in bible i am a god and WORSHIP  me?)please answer.

Jesus is God. He is God manifest in the flesh. Jesus and the Father are ONE. That's why the pharisees wanted to stone Him. That's why they crucified Him:
John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

That's the whole point of God's Word. You reject all of the prophets of the New Testament, the entire story of the New Testament, because of a single 7th century false prophet. Doesn't that ever strike you as being a little odd?

You can never get into the kingdom without intercession for your sins bel33, but you reject the very one that bought you:
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Without Jesus you will die wallowing in your sins bel33.

Regarding your blasphemy against Jesus Christ:
Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

AND YOU DIDN'T ANSWER ME TOO WHY YOU DIDN'T  SAY THAT EVE WAS A GOD TOO?

Where does the bible say that Eve was a God? It does say this:

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

That means that Adam and Eve, through disobedience, took on the knowledge of both good and evil that God/Jesus had. The fallen nature of man is passed onto us.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And without remission of your sins you will surely die too, b33.

AND YOU TELL ME ADAM CREATED FROM DUST .....

You are missing the whole point. IT ISN'T ABOUT WHAT I SAY. It's about what the Word of God says:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

...IT'S OK BUT HOW DO YOU DON'T KNOW THAT JESUS WAS CREATED BY THE SAME WAY???[/color][/b]
THE BIBLE DON'T SAY ABOUT THE WAY who GOD CREATE JESUS BY IT !!!

God and Jesus are coexistent, from the foundation of the world.

John 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

2Timothy 1:9  Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Revelation 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:19  But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:  20  Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Genesis 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 3:22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Matthew 13:35  That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

John 17:24   Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 9:26  For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.



Jesus was around "before the world was". Jesus is God - made manifest - or revealed - in the flesh.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[Pete]

Lu 1:30  And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Lu 1:34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Lu 1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

NOTE (((( YOU TOLD ME THAT ALL OF YOU SON OF GOD))))THIS IS NOT EVIDENCE.

I guess your reading skills aren't very acute. And you are ignoring all of my posts and I will likely stop soon so you can go back and reread them. In the verse you should note "...shall be called the Son of God."
That is a definite article. The reason it is is because Jesus IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER. AGAIN, YOU ALSO BELIEVE THAT NOBODY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD WAS EVER CREATED THAT WAY BEFORE OR AFTER JESUS. WHY DO YOU KEEP ARGUING AGAINST YOUR OWN BELIEFS?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=110.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

Lu 1:38  And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT GOD DIDN'T CREATE JESUS  by throw DUST  OR WATER OR AIR OR ANYTHING ELSE  IN MARY WOMB ?? OR MAYBE FROM THE RIB OF MARY LIKE EVE HOW DO YOU KNOW?  DO YOU KNOW ALL THE  omnipotence OF GOD? DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE?

God isn't about what we want to make up about Him.
Without His Word we would have no knowledge of Him.
Without His Spirit in me I could not understand His Word.
The very Word that you reject. Here's why:

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Instead what do you do? Follow a 7th century false prophet:
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

without SAY GOD SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME THAT ALL OF YOU SON OF GOD.

The reason you keep confusing terms is because it is unthinkable to you right now to face the truth. You realize now that Mohammedanism is a stand-alone religion. That it is the opposite of the revelation of God through His Word.
I already showed you a verse that uses both terms:
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

you say that you and all Christian is son of god ,But there is ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD

It isn't about what I say b33:

Jhn 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jhn 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Jhn 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hbr 5:5  So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jo 5:18  We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

[Pete]

what is the BEGOTTEN ? BEGOTTEN is case which  bring the SONS to life.

ok ,let us see what the meaning of BEGOTTEN word  will lead us, when everyone born from man he call the son of THIS man ,

Strong's from John 3:16:
  only begotten
New Testament Greek Definition:
3439 monogenes {mon-og-en-ace'}
from 3441 and 1096; TDNT - 4:737,606; adj
AV - only begotten 6, only 2, only child 1; 9
1) single of its kind, only
1a) used of only sons or daughters
(viewed in relation to their parents)
1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

what the meaning of BEGOTTEN  ? it's meaning he got this son,so the word son and BEGOTTEN is description for case which THE  son

come to life through it ,so the meaning of son of man= man BEGOTTEN these son,
[/b][/u]
if you  all ARE THE sons of god = god WHO IS BEGOTTEN you all.

if Jesus WHO WAS BEGOTTEN BY GOD = THAT'S also he is his son too

THE SON BEGOTTEN BY HIS FATHER.

THE FATHER BEGOTTEN HIS SON.

THEY ARE IN THE SAME MEANING

What are you talking about? Your wheels are spinning off b33.
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Whatever blasphemy you are trying to peddle, I don't understand and don't need to. You can see all of the verses that call Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. Your false prophet said this:

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Just like what Mohammed said about THE Son of God, IT ISN'T ABOUT WHAT WE SAY.
IT IS ABOUT WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS.
Mohammed was illiterate so how could he have understood except through ill advice? That's how he could be so wrong.
Worse than that filth, he caused you to deny Jesus shed blood, that would save you bel33.

thence ,you and Jesus  come from the same father, now WE must have TWO results , all of you is gods , or Jesus was a human like you!!!

SORRY FRIEND ,THERE IS NOT ANY MEANING OF WHAT YOU SAY ,YOU JUST REPEATING WHAT YOU LEARN IN YOUR churches ,BUT I AM SURE TAT YOU ARE NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAY,DO YOU KNOW WHY MOST Christian CONVERT TI ISLAM? THAT IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND TIES UNLOGICALLY THINGS, 

Christians don't convert to Islam. It's impossible because we are guided by the Holy Ghost. Christians posers - who don't understand what a Christian is, that falsely believe that if a priest sprinkles water on your head as an infant it makes you a Christian - "covert" to islam. In the U.S. 3/4 of those that convert to Islam leave within a few years. Figure the 1/4 that don't are women that are stuck with kids from a Muslim husband.

[believergod33]

I am sorry peter ,i really lost my time with you ,maybe this sharing will be the last sharing to me here ,your brain is washed  my friend ,and you don't have any convincing  argument except THE  VERSES OF YOUR BIBLE,and some videos ,this is not an equivalent conversation.
YOU TRY TO  persuade me by something i am not recognized it,you are refuse to let your  mind working ,I can bring you million of evidence from Qouran proof to you that Jesus was not the son of god ,but because i know that you are not recognized Quran i talk with you by the logic ,but you are determined to proof to me by the something who i don't confessor it,and this is waster time.
you can't make a logically conversation because as i told you before ((you are like all other Christians,they don't understand your faith,and all of you is  commit to memory but not understand )))

anyway i will answer you about some of your question because this object not deserve to effort or lose my time for it .

 1- AND YOU DIDN'T ANSWER ME TOO WHY YOU DIDN'T  SAY THAT EVE WAS A GOD TOO?

Where does the bible say that Eve was a God? It does say this:

as usual you don't trying to let your mind working, but your bible is the only source for your mind,you don't try to help yourself to arrive to truth,anyway my answer is.
How Jesus says in the bible if Eve was a god or not , if he wasn't originally not a god , because the miracle which description him as a god ,is equally with the miracle of Eve created ? so what is the reason that make him a son of god but she is not ? and if he not a god then why we must believe him if he didn't say about she is god in the bible??or the measure of the divinity is just because  he say that he is son of god?? thus every one can say that he is son of god and we must believe him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so what is the reason for the divinity of Jesus? because was born miraculously ?Eve also born with miracle like him ,and
the bible don't say that Eve was a god because, the bible not the real book from god,if really god say that Jesus is son of him then he must say too that Eve a daughter of him,but god never say that Jesus  a son of him,  if it is then it must say that Eve was a god too, because Eve and Jesus was born with great miracles,but the bible want to give the quality of divinity only for Jesus  .
and if you tell she is not a god because the bible don't say that she ,i will tell you if the bible say that Jesus is son of god i will tell you that bible is lying book because Eve must be a god too ,with  point of view of your faith ,I am not discussing you now what the Bible says , and this is proof that the Bible is not come from god , because if this kind of creation is the evidence of divinity , then bible must tell that Eve  was a god too like Jesus.




2 - Whatever blasphemy you are trying to peddle, I don't understand and don't need to. You can see all of the verses that call Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. Your false prophet said this:
 YES THIS IS THE POINT (YOU DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND,OR  specifically AFRAID TO UNDERSTAND)

YOU SAY (Christians don't convert to Islam. It's impossible because we are guided by the Holy Ghost Christians posers - who don't understand what a Christian is, that falsely believe that if a priest sprinkles water on your head as an infant it makes you a Christian - "covert" to islam. In the U.S. 3/4 of those that convert to Islam leave within a few years. Figure the 1/4 that don't are women that are stuck with kids from a Muslim husband.
)


IS yusuf estes AND ALL THE OTHER OF FORMER PRIESTS TOO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE Christians ?you didn't never find propagandist muslim convert to Christianty ,but you find many PRIESTS convert to islam.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pn0iPlWQNlI
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Toe4izlsPho
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OfZYveEHc&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ANt5b0ITW_8


((( and  you must see this too )))
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BAoYUkmxXSs&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EamNk1i0hqE&feature=related


SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THiS PEOPLE TOO???ALL OF THiS AND MORE DON'T UNDERSTAND Christianty and only you do? no my friend they understand Christianty and islam more than you,but you in a deep deep dark
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx6JMMYiME0
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7j0z7_J2XBk
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wnQRPfpqkSI
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HAPdXDlLdXk
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RkhBYryljl0
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=r5yTPLVmuLA
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4L4rWY3bFcM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=10iINdTVWFg





3- IF The Father and Son are ONE LIKE WHAT YOU SAY
SO WHY Jesus TELL THAT?

jon 20:17


17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


----- What is meant by the words of Jesus ( my God)? is the speaker here is the Jesus son of Mary ? Yes, of course .. then a Jesus have a God too, because he says my "God" ,he is equal with his students in servitude of God ,so he is servant of god like his Students completely , this is what Jesus saying without altering or misrepresentation -----


jon 8:40

40  But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.




Jon 17:3

3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent


. Joh 13:16  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

WHO IS the god sent them to us? answer your by yourself -.yes the messengers of him.

Mt 27:46
46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Is he ask himself to save himself here? if Jesus is god  ,so why he say my god? why he didn't save himself by himself?



Lu 23:46
46  And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost

.
His spirit is separate  of god spirit, don't like what you say.


peter,believe me i swear i really very sad for you ,i feel that you are a religiousness man and that's good and i respect it,but unfortunately you are
walk in wrong way ,i am so sorry for you,god save you my friend.


finally i think that's enough, no something desire hard work more ,you are hopeless case my friend.
try to check your religion Certified again,and compile all what i was say to you ,and let your mind working ,maybe god light your way ,how knows?

[Pete]

Believer, please copy and paste, or rewrite the appropriate portion of your response regarding God's Spirit, on the appropriate thread:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=126.0

[believergod33]

sorry peter?
which part you talking about?
anyway i allow to you to do what you want , i  really trust you my friend  but if you please don't delete anything of my answering , and i told you i will leaving and it's over

anyway it was so nice to talking with you.

[Pete]

sorry peter?
which part you talking about?
anyway i allow to you to do what you want , i  really trust you my friend  but if you please don't delete anything of my answering , and i told you i will leaving and it's over

anyway it was so nice to talking with you.

I wouldn't dream of deleting anything, any more than I do on my YouTube account comments or reply videos.
And if I missed a question of yours please continue to press me with it, as you have been doing, my friend.

Please move the part of your post related to the Spirit of God to the following thread link. Just click here:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=126.0
I will address all of the points in your above post after you address that thread.

[believergod33]

Thanks my honest friend,

 and ok  ,i will answer you about your question ,how is (Does God have a Spirit?),but give me my time because i will be very busy in the next 48 hour (much work ),and you aren't bound to answer me about my last sharing,it's over my friend ,because you are refusing to understand ,but you must know after this that i will not be never here again like what i told you before ok?

please watch.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qTMx2ioTPyE


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fQjvf0x1JSc


Are those the religion man which you are take the teachings from them?
do you think they are trust source about what they say ?
in the other way you didn't find any scandals for Islamic propagandist on the contrary  thanks god all of them is God fearing.



and look at this  poor man ,you was told me no Christian convert to Islam

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JbhUReyfwcY

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=73EfykhtXsE&feature=related

i am so sorry for  you my friend  .

[Pete]

As much time as you need, my friend. That's why this forum is such a nice venue. Our conversation can continue on, with continuity, even when we have to take breaks, and the record of it can jog our memories of prior points when we return.

[beebok]

It appears to me that the parable was quite finished when Jesus stated to bring his enemies before him and to slay them.
The parable ended in Luke 19:25.
During the parable, there were many statements such as "and he said  .. ." which indicate that it is part of the parable.
And then in 19:26 Jesus says, "And I say unto you . . . " Now Jesus is talking to the audience. The parable is over.
So, when Jesus commands to bring forth his enemies and slay them, that is no longer part of the parable, but a command of Jesus himself.


St. John Chrysostom of Antioch who lived some 400 AD stated, “I know that many people hold a high regard for the Jews and consider their way of life worthy of respect at the present time... This is why I am hurrying to pull up this fatal notion by the roots ... A place where a whore stands on display is a whorehouse. What is more, the synagogue is not only a whorehouse and a theater; it is also a den of thieves and a haunt of wild animals ... not the cave of a wild animal merely, but of an unclean wild animal ... When animals are unfit for work, they are marked for slaughter, and this is the very thing which the Jews have experienced. By making themselves unfit for work, they have become ready for slaughter. This is why Christ said: “as for my enemies, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them and slay them before me’ (Luke 19.27).”
http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/antisemitisminthenewtestament_1.html

So, even early Christians hold that verse to be, not a part of the parable, but a command from Jesus himself (and apparently one that references the Jews).


As far as Jesus never "or recommending using a sword against anyone"
Actually, he tells his disciples who do not have swords to sell their garments and buy swords.
This was clearly not a spiritual sword since it involves actual purchasing with money.
And it was only when Jesus realized that they were outnumbered in the garden of Gethsemene that he told Peter, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."

You say, "You paint Jesus Christ and the God of the bible as evil. "
Well, that is because the Bible is the word of God then altered by man, and so no longer the real word of God, and the Jesus of the Bible is not the real Jesus who was  but a slave of God and a prophet.


The oldest known fragment of the New Testament is from the first half of the 2nd century.
"This photo shows a papyrus fragment from the Gospel of John, discovered in Egypt, the oldest known fragment from any part of the New Testament, dated from the first half of the 2nd century C.E."
http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible2.htm

"Muslims overturned thousands of cars because an artist drew a cartoon of Mohammed. "
Christians in Afghanistan put Bible verses on their rifle scopes.
Bush said that God told him to invade Iraq. How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died from that? (see the Lancet report).
General Boykin said that he fought in the name of Jesus.
Christians bomb abortion clinics.

"That's why Islam is an imperialistic blood thirsty cult, ever since Mohammed plundered his first caravan."
The caravan was holding property stolen from the Muslims, and the caravan was manned by pagans who had persecuted Muslims, tortured them, murdered them, attempted to murder Muhammad, and were already at war against the Muslims. The idea that Islam is "blood thirst" or imperialistic is just old fashioned ignorant Islam bashing.

"I don't misunderstand Islam. It is the OPPOSITE of Christianity."
Actually, you misunderstand Islam greatly, and Islam is merely the continuation of real Christianity and Judaism.

"Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them"
Actually, that evinces that you do misunderstand Islam since that verse was revealed in the historical context of a war that Muslims were already engaged in, and refers specifically to those unbelievers who have initiated war against the Muslims.

"Hadith: Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!"
This is further evidence that you don't understand Islam. That hadith is a reference to end times when Jews have retaken Palestine and are being led by the Dajjal (similar to the anti-Christ). It is referring to those Jews specifically that were aligned with the Dajjal.

"That's what made the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem the perfect compliment to Hitler."
Palestine was being overrun by European Jews who had the intent of ridding Palestine of Palestinians. The Nazis were sending thousands of Jews to Palestine and the mufti (a great man) went to Hitler to ask him to stop.
By the way, Hitler was a Christian.
Meanwhile, Christians like Anne Coulter call for invading Muslim lands and forcing Muslims to convert to Christianity.

"My friend, it is you that doesn't understand Islam"
No Pete, it is you who understands neither Islam or the true Jesus or the true God Almighty.

"Christians don't believe that God had sexual relations with Mary. "
Begetting means to sire, which means to have sex.

"for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
For the Holy Ghost to "conceive" into Mary is for the Holy Ghost to have sex with her. And since you believe that the Holy Ghost is part of God, then you blaspheme against God with this unholy accusation of God having sex.

And is Jesus the only Begotten son of God according to the Bible?
Psalms 2:7
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. "
And that is not David talking about Jesus, that is David talking about himself, "said unto me," with David speaking.

And if you insist that the verse is talking about Jesus, though from the context it is clearly not, then you have later in the verse:
'You shall break them with a rod of iron,
You shall shatter them like earthenware.'"
Which would mean that Jesus will "break them with a rod of iron, etc"

But the verse does refer to David, and so Jesus is not the only begotten according to the Bible.

"The Quran wasn't written until hundreds of years after Mohammed's death."
No, history records that it was written while Muhammad was alive and had time to make sure of its authenticity.

"It was also collected up, and various copies burned, on two separate occassions:"
That is so that no one could rightly accuse it of corruption. Since no official version had been made, the Caliphs destroyed all copies that were unofficial (put to scrutiny), and not because anything was found lacking in them. They merely were not officially sanctioned.

"That's why it needs a rule of abrogation."
Abrogation was merely to reveal God's word gradually such as gradual restrictions on alcohol. And the later verses did not contradict the previous ones. For example, the later command of never drinking does not contradict the command to not drink before praying since when you never drink, you also don't drink before praying.

"No, it comes from the Word of God:"
No, the idea of a god having a son with a mortal woman is very common in pagan myths, as is the trinity also common in paganism.

"Mohammedans are stuck trying to justify the reprobate behavior of their 7th century false prophet, by going back 1200 years in the history of mankind to find anything even close."
What "reprobate" behavior? Never in history has one been found who was so merciful, compassionate, honest, kind, generous, and excellent in all manners. You sound like those Jews who tried to demonize Jesus and other prophets.
And the reason Muslims point out the violent verses of the Bible is to show the hypocrisy of the Christians, and to reveal the truly misled religion, the one that attempts to set equals and partners to God.

"The Father and Son are ONE: "
Ok, they are in the same mission. Whoever plucks someone out of Jesus hand has plucked them from the fathers hand. Read it in context. It does not mean that Jesus is God.

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
God glorifies many. That does not make them God. And just because Jesus existed before the world does not make him God. The angels also existed before the world.
And "with thee" clearly it is talking about two distinct beings.

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."
Ok, people get to God through Jesus. That doesn't make Jesus God. In fact, that shows them to be two seperate beings.

So, you still haven't shown where Jesus says the words, "I am God."

"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."
Well, that contradicts the old testament verses which have repentance through grain when no animal sacrifice is present.

And according to the New Testament, good deeds are required:

"Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 7:21.

"And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matthew 19:16-17.

"But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Oh look, that doesn't require blood.

""And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unto men, that all should every where do penance."
No need for blood there. Penance is required, not blood.

"Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much." James 5:16.
Yep, no blood there.

And oh yes, James does mention that faith without good deeds is dead.

Hmmmm, looks like some contradictions in the Bible there.

"Behold, the man is become as one of us"
Wait! To know good from evil is to become Godlike? That's ignorance to the extreme. How low do Christians think God is such that merely knowing good from evil makes one like God?

"And God said, Let us make man in our image"
"us" is a plural of majesty.
You think that God has an image? Your Bible says that God has an image? God is far transcendent beyond mere images. What ignorance this Bible is!

"after our likeness: "
You think that humans are "like" God? How very primitive! God is unique and perfect.

"for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world."
So what? That doesn't make Jesus God. It just means that he was around before the world. And if God loves Jesus, then they are two separate beings.

"but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
God doesn't accept human sacrifice.

Who died on the cross? Was it a man or a god?
If it was God, then God cannot die. He is indestructible.  If he was a man, then human sacrifice is forbidden.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,"
Of course, God said, "Be!" and Jesus existed. Jesus came into existence through the command (the Word) of God. Muslims already know that. Big Deal.
God created everything with a command word. Adam was created by God's command: "Be" and Adam was. The universe was created by God's word. The command was with God in the beginning. God commanded Jesus to come into existence, and then put flesh on him.

""...shall be called the Son of God."
Many were called the Son of God. So what? That's not a big deal. It is used so frequently that it is clearly just a figure of speech.

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
It is not vain when you pay attention to what you pray. And when God has commanded that prayer, of course it is heard.

"You realize now that Mohammedanism is a stand-alone religion. That it is the opposite of the revelation of God through His Word."
Actually, it is becoming even more clear that Christianity is a distortion of Jesus' true teachings with all of the Bible's many contradictions and Christianities pagan like beliefs. No, Islam is clearly the true revelation of God, though you, Pete, may hate the truth.

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]."
People saw Jesus, so clearly Jesus is not God according to your own pseudo-scriptures.

"Mohammed was illiterate so how could he have understood except through ill advice? "
But when he debated with the Jews, he knew their scripture better than them. That is recorded hadith. That was one of Muhammad's miracles and proof of divine guidance from God Almighty.

"Worse than that filth, he caused you to deny Jesus shed blood, that would save you"
Muhammad was only conveying God's word. Too bad you don't like God's true word, and instead prefer the distortions of misled humans.

"Christians don't convert to Islam."
I've seen quite a few. They were very devout and knowledgeable Christians too.

Ok, that's enough debunking of falsehood for tonight.