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Messages - Esteban

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Roman Catholic Church / Re: The Pope on Islam
« on: September 29, 2010, 05:36:34 PM »
Quote from: randomfeats on August 24, 2009, 04:21:04 PM
Here's where I think alot of this comes from.
From the Catechism:
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]
I think we have a problem here. ???

And it says just underneath: "In their religious behaviour, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them: Very often deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the creature rather than the Creator...."






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Roman Catholic Church / Re: The Apocrypha was added to the Roman Catholic Bible in 1546
« on: September 29, 2010, 05:23:31 PM »
Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

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Roman Catholic Church / Re: Catholic Concerns - by former nun Mary Ann Collins
« on: September 29, 2010, 05:17:20 PM »
Quote from: amos45 on September 28, 2010, 09:14:07 PM

I can support your statement also, as I have a close Catholic friend who regularly reads scripture passages at mass.

Regards,

Amos


Thanks, Amos. I find so many of the comments on this forum to be similarly and worryingly uninformed about Catholicism when the truth of the matters concerned can so easily be discovered on the net or by simply attending a Mass.

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Roman Catholic Church / Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« on: September 29, 2010, 05:00:59 PM »
Quote from: Peter on September 29, 2010, 04:02:54 PM

Sometimes even Christians get tired of turning the other cheek.
But you seem to want to have it both ways. You desire to excuse away reprobate behavior of the Roman Church, yet on the other hand want to condemn non-Roman Catholics for engaging in similar unchristian behavior - or are you seeking to justify it that way?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=90.0

You earlier fantasized about the Roman Church somehow engaging Islam with a "...major role in the future...".
Do you imagine the Roman Church engaging Islam the same way that they did last time?



Sorry, Peter, I am genuinely confused. I was attempting to 'put the record straight' and not to defend un-Christian behaviour by any 'side'. When did I fantasise? Mahomet is responsible for Islam and gives Christianity no credit for it, he borrowed from many texts from many religions in composing his koran. I have no illusions about Islam and the accusation that the Catholic Church is somehow responsible for Islam cannot be seriously supported. It is part of the 'anything bad must be the Catholic Church's fault' and 'anything good cannot arise from the Catholic Church' mentality. The fanatical muslims were calling for the death of the Pope during his recent visit to the UK for 'insulting Islam' at Regensberg. Two would be Arab assassins were deported from Italy recently. A muslim attempted to kill John Paul.
The Protestants have never anywhere fought Islam, the Catholics have lost probably hundreds of thousands in that fight.
This is historically indisputable.

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Roman Catholic Church / Re: Mary Worship
« on: September 29, 2010, 04:33:13 PM »
I am Catholic, I am fully aware that I may worship God alone. I venerate Mary, I acknowledge her as my mother and queen.
Mary was created and is a creature like you are and I am.  I also believe that unlike you and I, she was sinless, there is no way that the Ark of the New Covenant could have been, even for an instant, under Satan's power, she was wholly and eternally God's alone. This is not heresy, it is logical.
The Ark of the old Covenant (that contained something much less precious than the God-Man, Jesus) was treated with enormous respect at God's command and its presence assisted the Jews in battle and in other situations.

If Jesus had siblings then they would all have been younger than Him so then why did He give care of His mother to John who was not related to them? Where were His brothers and sisters when He was crucified? The word 'brothers' was and is still used in the middle east to denote cousins of many degrees and uncles.

Some of you believe in the 'rapture' (though the word occurs nowhere in Scripture), is it such a stretch to believe that God would rapture the mother of the Eternal Word?

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Roman Catholic Church / Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« on: September 29, 2010, 03:16:58 PM »
Hi sources for Protestants assisting the Ottoman Turks are not difficult to find, I quote from Wikipaedia:

"Protestants and other anti-Habsburg Kuruc forces, led by Imre Thököly (who was Protestant but died under the protection of the Ottomans in Turkey), were reinforced with a significant force from the Ottomans, who recognized Thököly as King of "Upper Hungary" (eastern part of today's Slovakia and parts of today's northeastern Hungary, which he had earlier taken by force of arms from the Habsburgs). This support went so far as explicitly promising the "Kingdom of Vienna" to the Hungarians if it fell into Ottoman hands".

The Polish Christians and others who fought under Jan Sobieski were solidly Catholic. I can find proof of tens of thousands of Catholics dieing whilst fighting Islam but not one Protestant. When the Battle of Lepanto was won, over 10,000 Christians who had been enslaved (including Protestants) were released from the Muslim vessels.  Are any of you aware of the thousands of Catholics who perished at Protestant hands? Many were 'hung, drawn and quartered' that is, hung but cut down whilst alive and conscious, then disembowelled and then having their limbs and genitals cut off" - and many could have avoided this fate quite by conversion.

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Roman Catholic Church / Re: Catholic Concerns - by former nun Mary Ann Collins
« on: September 28, 2010, 07:56:32 PM »
Quote from: PATRIOT on July 22, 2009, 06:29:03 PM
Mary Ann Collins' story is so very painfully stated by her!  I don't think Roman Catholics quite understand how very difficult it is for an ex-Catholic to expose the truth!

I was a Catholic, and, although not a good Catholic, for I could never subscribe to so many of the things that were so very revolting to me, even as a young girl.  I never had, nor could ever stand to have the "worship" for Mary, nor statues around.  I called myself a "smorgasbord Catholic," as I know many to be although, "steadfastly," remaining in it!!

It wasn't UNTIL I actually read the New Testament, in its entirety, that my eyebrows were raised.  I, in truth, couldn't quite assimilate it the first time I read it, and did so, again, for so many were the contradictions with what I had "known" through the Catholic Church's teachings!


At this very time, it happened I watched a documentary on the life of Martin Luther.  One statement stayed with me from which I understood that NEVER had he read the Bible!!  It was only when he was ordered to teach some course, he thought he should know about what he was speaking,... and actually read the Bible!

I was dumbfounded!!  HOW COULD IT BE??  Did not the Holy Book sit atop the altar from which the priests read here and there?!!!! 

It was then that I was sure, neither had the pope, at the time, John Paul II, ever read the Bible!  ONE COULD NOT POSSIBLY DO SO,... AND REMAIN IN SUCH A COVEN OF DEMONS!!

The anger I felt for having been deceived for so long has not as yet subsided, although it has been almost 10 years!  BUT, WHOM COULD I BLAME BUT JUST ME, FOR NEVER EVER EVEN CONSIDERING READING THE WORD OF GOD?!! 

My heart breaks for the many, I know, such as family and friends, who are in it, innocently, just for believing the devil in disguise which is the Roman Catholic Church AND THE LIES IT DISSEMINATES!!
Hi, Scripture is and has always been read at every Mass. Today's readings were: Job 3:1-3 11-17 and 20-23, Psalm 88:2-8 and Luke 9:51-56.  The whole of the New and much of the Old Testament is read together with Epistles and psalms over each 3 year cycle. Weren't you listening?

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Roman Catholic Church / Re: Parallels between Roman Catholicism and Islam
« on: September 28, 2010, 07:46:03 PM »
There is mention of the great battles against Islam in Eliss Skolfield's interesting book about the Battle of Vienna when a small Christian force defeated a much greater muslim one. He does not mention that the Christians were ALL Catholics nor that Protestants fought on the side of the Muslims. He also failed to mention the great sea Battle of Lepanto when the (again) overwhelmingly outnumbered Catholics fought off an intended Muslim invasion of Italy while the Protestants in Northern Europe prayed for an Islamic victory. If they had succeeded the whole of Europe would be muslim by now. The truth is that the Catholics are the only Christians to have fought Islam. It was the Catholics who drove the Muslims out of France and out of Spain without any assistance. Perhaps the Catholics and the Orthodox (the two candles of Revelation) will have the major role in the future.

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