Chat with former Roman Catholic now Muslim

[Peter]

Chat with an X Roman Catholic that converted to Islam. After some YouTube comments I PMd the following.

Hi [name withheld],

Can you tell me what the following communicates to you?

But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. ..... and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK3Rgcw5lDw

[Peter]

[name withheld]

Isaiah 53 - The prediction of the Messiah that he would come and suffer for the sins of the breaking of the original covenant. I totally agree that Jesus was the anointed one. He was given knowledge of the old testament which at that time had already been altered and forgotten. He was put on this earth to bring a new covenant to the truly faithful. Faithful to the one true God. How did Jesus pray? Did he not pray on his knees with his head to the ground? If this form of prayer was what Jesus did why shouldn't his followers do the same? If Jesus prayed to YHWH why shouldn't his followers?

I don't believe Christians today actually follow the teachings and traditions of Jesus, instead they pray to Jesus making him equal to God which is breaking the first commandment. If I am wrong please give me references to correct me.

The first surah of the quran is loosely translated below (Note: All Arabic speakers Christian, Jew and Muslim use the word Allah as God because it is more specifically refers to the one and only deity):

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. (This is said at the opening of every surah)

Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

This is part of the salat (five times prayer) do you think people who say this and actually mean it are so different than yourself?

[Peter]

[[[[Isaiah 53 - The prediction of the Messiah that he would come and suffer for the sins of the breaking of the original covenant. I totally agree that Jesus was the anointed one.]]]]

But you have chosen to reject His blood that would save you to follow Mohammed, even though you recognize Yeshua's crucifixion was prophesied during the old covenant, so many hundreds of years before the event.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0

Surah 4:157 That THEY SAID (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST JESUS the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

I'll continue with your PM after we resolve this central and EXACT OPPOSITE, of the entire subject of the Gospel of Jesus Chirst, that Mohammed declared 600 years after the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh5E--IlCKk

[Peter]

Whose your Savior?
Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.0
The sinless Lamb of God the Father?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=316.0

Or Mohammed?
You can't have it both ways.

Qur'an 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."

That describes one of the proudest moments in Islamic history. The slaughter of the Banu Qurayza.

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims." Ishaq:465 "When their wrists were bound with cords, the Apostle was a sea of generosity to us."

Ishaq:465 "Then the Apostle divided the property, wives, and children of the Qurayza among the Muslims. Allah's Messenger took his fifth of the booty. He made known on that day the extra shares for horses and their riders - giving the horse two shares and the rider one. A Muslim without a horse got one share of the spoil. It was the first booty in which lots were cast."

Tabari VIII:39 "Then the Messenger of Allah sent Sa'd bin Zayd with some of the Qurayza captives to Najd, and in exchange for them he purchased horses and arms."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

Ishaq:466 "The Apostle [taking first dibs] chose one of the Jewish women for himself. Her name was Rayhana. She remained with him until she died, in his power. The Apostle proposed to marry her and put the veil on her but she said, 'Leave me under your power, for that will be easier.' She showed a repugnance towards Islam when she was captured."

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

On whose authority?

Ishaq:463/Tabari VIII:34 "When Sa'd reached the Messenger of Allah and the Muslims, the Prophet said, 'Arise and go to your master and help him dismount.' Then Muhammad said, 'Pass judgment on them.' Sa'd replied, 'I pass judgment that their men shall be killed, their women and children made captives, and their property divided.' Allah's Apostle proclaimed, 'You have passed judgment on the Jews with the judgment of Allah and the judgment of His Messenger.'"

[name withheld], ONE MUST CHOOSE.

Regarding the integrity of scripture I put this together for you.

Christians confess: "I was wrong."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rESOsk6j3Fc

http://www.evidenceofgod.com/
http://www.garyhabermas.com/
http://www.josh.org/site/c.ddKDIMNtEqG/b.4023555/k.BE5B/Home.htm
http://www.leestrobel.com/

Dating the Gospels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxiddSTtKpA
The Case for Christmas - the Son of God (textual criticism)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87SDPdRPrs8
Case for Christ early recorded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxiddSTtKpA
Jesus is God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9RDHHpfKJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LFrocL3U8c
Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q37BdSIRHd8
old testament prophecy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MGBjLu2UI
Jesus born of virgin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EOhAsncS0
Die for a lie?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIfhy0ug7kM
verdict case for Christ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80TyYivFsVA
Jesus rise from dead?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq64qX7bNNU
reliability gospel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CEf9LBoxXg
how many saw Jesus alive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bDcEn79DWE
The Case for a Creator (1 of 10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYLHxcqJmoM
Can a loving God send people to hell?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO3QO1vj_PU

Attached
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

[Peter]

[[[[I believe Isa was born the Messiah and did suffer in this life.]]]]]

Then why did you write this in your last PM?
"Isaiah 53 - The prediction of the Messiah that he would come and suffer for the sins...."

You seem to want to have it both ways, but you are a follower of Mohammed now.

[[[[[ I don't believe God would permit .....]]]]]

So then you've chosen to reject the Gospel for a gospel of your own imagination and what you wish YHWH/Yeshua was about to suit your convenience?

[[[[...... his chosen messenger to be killed like a common criminal.]]]]

YHWH's people have always been persecuted, killed and treated like criminals by Satan's people. Even Jesus indicated that prophets were killed, and He did so while He was castigating the very antichrists, that eventually killed him.

Mat 23:31    Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

And of course Satan's antichrist minions did kill Jesus just like a criminal for blasphemy, because they refused to believe He was their promised Son of God that was prophesied, but instead was a law breaker.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

The disciples died similar deaths for doing nothing more than preaching the resurrection, just as Yeshua's people have been persecuted and slaughtered ever since, for proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The only disciple that didn't die a terrible death was John, but not for lack of trying. When their efforts to kill him failed (boiling in oil for one), they banished him to the penal colony of Patmos to get him out of sight.
ALL of Christ's true followers know to expect the same. Just as I don't picture myself dying of old age. Just as pastors in Africa are being crucified today by Mohammed's followers. With over 2 million innocents killed in the Sudan alone.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will  live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Here's a video that describes how a few of Christ's closest followers died.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA

At the following link are links to online books.
Fox's Book of the Martyrs and Martyrs Mirror, that describe true Christians persecution by Satan's minions, including that ordered by those in charge of the Roman "church".
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and one of their heads left on the steps of a Church.  The note left behind reads:  "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

What if they had been your daughters?
Please take a minute to see what Mohammed's true followers are doing all around the world at this link.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Since Muslims generally believe the opposite of truth their view of martyrdom is no exception. Mohammed taught his followers that those that died accidentally, while engaged in the rape, pillage and plunder of imperialistic slaughter were "martyrs".
But non-Muslims easily understand that the true martyrs are those that died while defending their families, property and villages, from the onslaught and imperialistic conquest of the Islamic first jihad, all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria.

Yet after sending tens of thousands to their non"martyr's" deaths in his name, Mohammed himself died in bed in a whimper, from the effects of a poisoning of a few years earlier.
In one battle he is recorded as occupying a distant hill with 12 body guards and wearing 2 suits of chain-mail. This after at the beginning of the battle shouting "Who will carry my sword into battle?" The guy who stepped up to the plate was indeed killed in his place in that battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ZAH6r8vHg

[Peter]

[[[[I believe Isa was risen wholly before the execution and the onlookers saw another man executed in his place .......]]]]]

And the reason you reject the Gospel is because of ONE MAN that came along 600 years later that declared the opposite.
A man who himself believed it was jinn that met him in that cave on that fateful day, until his wife talked him out of it. Yet you know that a woman's word is only worth half a man's in Islam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpsWnbApBNw

It isn't like we weren't warned.

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

A stand-alone self-proclaimed "prophet" who never had a fulfilled prophecy. Who never performed a single miracle. Who not a single witness ever heard his "Allah" or Gabriel give a single "revelation" to. Like that he could have as many wives as he wanted - but only for him.
How many other prophets had to keep trying to convince people they were prophets by repeatedly telling people they were prophets?
A man that came along 600 years after this was written.

Rev 22:18    For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[[[[........ and by the will of Allah this man resembled Isa. I believe that James the Just, brother of Isa took over leadership of Jesus's teachings as stated clearly in the Gospel of Thomas. The apostle Paul was preaching heresy against the Torah and as James confronted him (Acts 21) Paul claimed to have seen a vision (Acts 22). The visions of Paul were the basis of modern Christianity. Many of the teachings you claim to believe were not the original teachings of Isa but rather the teachings of Paul and later Peter.]]]]]

Sure. Teachings like Jesus death.
Matthew 27:50    Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, YIELDED UP THE GHOST.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and GAVE UP THE GHOST, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he GAVE UP THE GHOST.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and GAVE UP THE GHOST.

[[[[[ Both of these apostles gain notoriety and their teachings are chosen over the teachings of James the Just, Phillip, Thomas the Contender. The most enlightening of all is the Gospel of Thomas.]]]]

There was boatloads of heresy written in the first and second centuries. The reason so much was not canonized is because of INTERNAL errors. Like where the authors contradicted themselves and made historical errors and such.
Next perhaps you'll be moving from the "gospel" of Thomas, that fails to mention Jesus' miracles and travels, and peddling the Gospel of Barnabas.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=465.0

Yet the reason you search for everything you can to blaspheme YHWH/Yeshua (though you don't intend to) is because you follow a book, that itself was left in such a mess, that Islamic scholars understand that a whopping 71 out of only 114 suras are subject to abrogation.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

Just as Mohammed himself indicated of his contradictory mess of poorly plagiarized bible stories, and recycled Jewish and Arabian fables, that he got from friends like Jabr, Tubba, and his tri-lingual secretary as well as numerous wives, concubines and slaves, that came from Christian and Jewish backgrounds.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Please visit this link if you want to learn the real origins of Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWCiNKxVsrE

[Peter]

[[[[I believe Isa was risen wholly before the execution and the onlookers saw another man executed in his place .......]]]]]

And the reason you reject the Gospel is because of ONE MAN that came along 600 years later that declared the opposite.
A man who himself believed it was jinn that met him in that cave on that fateful day, until his wife talked him out of it. Yet you know that a woman's word is only worth half a man's in Islam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpsWnbApBNw

It isn't like we weren't warned.

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

A stand-alone self-proclaimed "prophet" who never had a fulfilled prophecy. Who never performed a single miracle. Who not a single witness ever heard his "Allah" or Gabriel give a single "revelation" to. Like that he could have as many wives as he wanted - but only for him.
How many other prophets had to keep trying to convince people they were prophets by repeatedly telling people they were prophets?
A man that came along 600 years after this was written.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[[[[........ and by the will of Allah this man resembled Isa. I believe that James the Just, brother of Isa took over leadership of Jesus's teachings as stated clearly in the Gospel of Thomas. The apostle Paul was preaching heresy against the Torah and as James confronted him (Acts 21) Paul claimed to have seen a vision (Acts 22). The visions of Paul were the basis of modern Christianity. Many of the teachings you claim to believe were not the original teachings of Isa but rather the teachings of Paul and later Peter.]]]]]

Sure. Teachings like Jesus death.
Matthew Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, YIELDED UP THE GHOST.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and GAVE UP THE GHOST, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he GAVE UP THE GHOST.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and GAVE UP THE GHOST.

[[[[[ Both of these apostles gain notoriety and their teachings are chosen over the teachings of James the Just, Phillip, Thomas the Contender. The most enlightening of all is the Gospel of Thomas.]]]]

There was boatloads of heresy written in the first and second centuries. The reason so much was not canonized is because of INTERNAL errors. Like where the authors contradicted themselves and made historical errors and such.
Next perhaps you'll be moving from the "gospel" of Thomas, that fails to mention Jesus' miracles and travels, and peddling the Gospel of Barnabas.

Yet the reason you search for everything you can to blaspheme YHWH/Yeshua (though you don't intend to) is because you follow a book, that itself was left in such a mess, that Islamic scholars understand that a whopping 71 out of only 114 suras are subject to abrogation.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

Just as Mohammed himself indicated of his contradictory mess of poorly plagiarized bible stories, and recycled Jewish and Arabian fables, that he got from friends like Jabr, Tubba, and his tri-lingual secretary as well as numerous wives, concubines and slaves, that came from Christian and Jewish backgrounds.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Please visit this link if you want to learn the real origins of Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWCiNKxVsrE

[Peter]

[[[[Do you know ancient Arabic well enough to have translated this passage of the Qur'an?]]]]

Where do you come up with this stuff? The Arabic of the Quran is the Arabic of Mohammed's tribe the Quraish and is one of the most modern languages on earth. It was spread with Islam and the sword. It supplanted ancient Arabic. While Mohammed claimed the Quran was pure Arabic, Islamic scholars are well aware that it contains at least a hundred words that are not Arabic. Like the Syriac word "injeel".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1693.0

Who've you been listening to? Lying Greek sophist styled entertainers like Ahmed Deedat and his disciple Naik?
Why not watch the attached video and see if you agree with Deedat or me.

Here's how an expert put it.

"Gerd Puin, the world's leading specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur'anic paleography, studying the oldest manuscripts, speaks with disdain about the willingness of Muslims and non-Muslims alike, to accept Islamic dogma. He says: "The Qur'an claims for itself that it is "mubeen," or clear, but if you just look at it, you will see that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur'an is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur'an is not comprehensible, if it can't even be understood in Arabic, then it's not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid."

[[[[If you do not than I would advise you to: read many different translations of the entire surah notice the differences in translation.]]]]

You are trying to run and hide to fool yourself. I imagine that when you learn of these horrifying things and ask you are told that you have to know Arabic. But the translation doesn't change the event. The slaughter of those Jewish farm boys, theft of the property the Qurayza worked for all their lives, and pressing of their wives and children into sexual slavery, is something that no Muslim scholar can or would deny.
They might try to suggest it wasn't rape but why not try a little empathy. If you had been Rayhana bt. Amr, Safiyah for example, do you think you would have DESIRED to have sex, with the very man responsible, for beheading your husband and father?
It even applies to adultery with still-married captives.
Sahih Muslim Book 8:3431: "It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

[[[[The one quote from the Qur'an is out of context, however if you know when the surah was given then you can understand if it pertained to a particular battle, and specifically mentions the people of the book who aided the pagans (Not ALL people of the book).]]]]]

Yet nowhere in the Quran or Hadith is there an account of this later-alleged betrayal.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2081.0

And even if they were, do you really thing that's a valid reason to have little boys beheaded while raping their sisters and stealing all their property? With Mohammed cutting himself in for 1/5 of the action just like a Mafia Don. Is that like Abraham when dealing with the enemies of YHWH that he was told to vanquish?

Genesis 14.20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. 21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 23 That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

Do you see what indoctrination into Mohammed's religion has done to you? What you should be seeing as black hearted evil, must necessarily now be everything that is good to you. This while you reject the love of YHWH to the world, expressed through the crucifixion of Yeshua for us, who was manifest as a perfect and sinless man.

Why do you suppose the Hebrew name for the Messiah, Yeshua, means YHWH saves, rescues or delivers? How does the Messiah save or deliver us? What do we need delivery from more than our own sin?

[[[[ The Quran is extremely clear that killing is wrong to the point .........]]]]

Only killing of innocents is prohibited, and no non-Muslim is innocent. All of Mohammed's slightly more peaceful "revelations" from his first 13 years where he was barely able to win a hundred converts, are abrogated by over a hundred verses that call his followers to violence against non-Muslims.

Indeed the Islamic calendar doesn't even start until after this psychotic break at the end of his 20 year monogamous relationship with one loving wife, and the beginning of his post-Medina slaughter, of imperialist conquest of nearly the whole Arabian peninsula.

Anyone who does not submit to Islam is an enemy of Islam to be fought against. Even if they are Christians and Jews.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

You see? Mohammed ordering his alter-ego "Allah"s curse on YHWH's people.

That's why TRUE MUSLIMS that behave just like the false prophet Mohammed are responsible for over 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

That's why Islam slaughtered, raped and plundered all the way up to Tour France and Vienna Austria during the Islamic first Jihad.

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

What about women in Islam? While women caught in adultery are stoned, all a man has to do is say "I divorce you" three times and it is done. Even by text message in Saudi Arabia and Malaysia.
http://beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm

[[[[[......... that if your enemy stops to pray in the middle of battle you are not allowed to kill him. Anyone claiming to be Muslim and committing atrocities such as what happened on 9.11 are not true Muslims.]]]]

The 1400 year goal of Islam is conquest of all of the kingdoms of the world and subjugation of their people to Mohammed's religion. That's just the way it is.
You are pretend that history doesn't exist. But then you already have to since there is no historical record of Mecca ever existing before the 4th century AD.

[[[[ Please understand the context of what you quote before you quote things. The Quran is my guide not any of the other above mentioned authors or works.]]]]]

Their murderers guide too.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

That verse abrogates Mohammed's pre-Medina foolishness like "no compulsion in religion".

[[[[For future reference just because Muslims did horrendous things does not make the whole religion and it's believers horrendous.]]]]

Mohammed's people are called to imperialistic conquest.

[[[[[ There are some very violent passages in the bible .......]]]]

But you of all people know we were given a new covenant through the Messiah. This was the culmination of the 1600 year progressive revelation of YHWH to us.
Why not find me a passage in the Gospel that calls Christians to violence against others?

[[[[[......... and Christians have done some inexcusable things.]]]]

What you mean is that Roman Catholics murdered Jews, Muslims AND CHRISTIANS. It's obvious such acts are not perpetrated by Christians.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Yet your Muslim brethren blaspheme Jesus Christ and try to paint Him as violent when the most violent thing He did was overturn the tables of the moneychangers.

[[[[ That being said I don't think all Christians are planning on killing abortion doctors or setting up isolated camps on ranches in Texas or Montana.]]]]]

Where are Christians called to kill anyone, anywhere in the new covenant?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDbzOLTt6hg

[Peter]

[name withheld], I have found that one of the best places to learn about Roman Catholicism, is from those who have been thoroughly indoctrinated into it and held those heresies in their hearts as what they believed were absolute truths, but later came to learn the truth and overcame those phony doctrines - particularly clergy.
You would likely agree, as a former Roman Catholic yourself. So where might we guess one of the best and more objective places to learn about Islam might be? By indoctrinating ourselves with proven liars like Ahmed Deedat and his disciple Naik?

Since you cannot find a record of Mecca from before the Christian era, outside of the fiction of Islamic so-called "tradition" - that was all created entirely in the 7th and 8th century AD by Mohammed's followers - what does that tell you about your newly embraced rituals of bowing to the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day, traveling to Mecca and walking around the Quraish's kaaba 7 times the way the Arabian star family worshipers did, and running back and forth between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah the way the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did when idols of their most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn religion adorned those hills? Why do you suppose the focus of these adopted and then adapted pagan rituals is located 1200 miles away from THE Holy Land where YHWH had His people build a temple to Him?

http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

Why do you suppose there are 77 years in a generation, according to Islam's "tradition" creators, when Mohammed himself had a 6 year old wife, that he consummated his marriage with when she was 9 years old?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE37P77dQKs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfWy5KaFvbU

[Peter]

How do you suppose this came to be prophesied over 400 hundreds years before crucifixion was ever even invented?

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Fulfilled
Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

Just some kind of historical accident?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA

[Peter]

[name withheld]

I choose to believe the Qur'an is the word of God. Sent to his last messenger Mohammed peace and blessing upon him, an illiterate man. There is no proof from any man that can change my belief. It would improve your anti-Islam campaign if you read the Qur'an at least in English. The beauty of it's words is clear proof to me that it is not the creation of any man. If you still disagree there is a challenge in the Qur'an you are more than invited to take up.

Luckily we are both free to believe what we choose and on the last day will face God alone with our sins and good deeds to judge us.

Peace!

http://www.thewaytotruth.org/theholyquran/wordofgod.html

[Peter]

Since I had promised that I would answer to the rest of your original reply I prepared the following.

[[[[[Isaiah 53 - The prediction of the Messiah that he would come and suffer for the sins of the breaking of the original covenant. I totally agree that Jesus was the anointed one. He was given knowledge of the old testament which at that time had already been altered and forgotten. He was put on this earth to bring a new covenant to the truly faithful. Faithful to the one true God. How did Jesus pray? Did he not pray on his knees with his head to the ground? If this form of prayer was what Jesus did why shouldn't his followers do the same? If Jesus prayed to YHWH why shouldn't his followers?]]]]]

Perhaps you could bring a scriptural reference detailing the specific position Muslims and Zoroastrians use. There is a single instance of Jesus falling on His face but why couldn't that even indicate lying down?
The reason you find comfort in believing you can please YHWH through the flesh is because the Roman church teaches the same doctrine. Of fleshly ritual and salvation through our own works. Just one of a dozen parallels between Islam and the Roman Church.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=512.0

More importantly that single instance is hardly grounds for a doctrine, or Christians foreheads would be pretty badly scabbed indeed from traveling with our foreheads scraping on the ground, since Christians are to 1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

[[[[I don't believe Christians today actually follow the teachings and traditions of Jesus .......]]]]

I agree a considerable amount of false doctrines crept into particularly the Roman church. Even the idea of church buildings themselves. But you are rejecting Christianity to follow Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion. At least when Christians disagree on doctrine they might form another group, rather than murder each others innocent men, women and children over their doctrinal differences, the way Mohammed's followers do.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=54.0

A great book on the subject of what happened to the church is "Pagan Christianity" by 100 year old elder Frank Viola. As a former Roman Catholic I think you will really enjoy it.

[[[[...... instead they pray to Jesus making him equal to God which is breaking the first commandment. If I am wrong please give me references to correct me.]]]]

Not equal to God. Jesus IS God. Coexistent. Not breaking the first commandment at all.
Yeshua is the WAY YHWH chose to manifest or reveal Himself to mankind, in a way that we could understand through our finite human understanding. The perfect and sinless man as an example for all mankind. How could a human being be sinless when even our thoughts can condemn us in sin? A man who you are required as a Muslim, to put on the very same level as Mohammed, and consider the Messiah as just another prophet.

It goes without saying that Jews recognize that YHWH has a Spirit.
Even Muslims must concede that Mohammed's "Allah" has a spirit.
Sura 15.29: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."
Does that mean Muslims worship 2 Gods as they hypocritically accuse Christians regarding YHWH's Spirit?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/

Besides all His declarations of divinity that the Jews wanted to stone Him for,
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=571.0
what did Yeshua declare at the end of His being revealed to us, after His crucifixion and resurrection from the dead (just as He had prophesied in advance)?

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Who has all power in heaven and in earth?
Who's this...

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=570.0

[[[[[The first surah of the quran is loosely translated below (Note: All Arabic speakers Christian, Jew and Muslim use the word Allah as God because it is more specifically refers to the one and only deity):]]]]

Allah is indeed a WORD or TERM that MEANS "the God", which is why this TERM is a chameleon.
Earlier in Arabia it was used as the name of the god of monotheistic Venus worshipers, and before Mohammed the Quraish invoked it as the name of their most powerful deity, the moon god, as represented by the black stone idol that they venerated. Mohammed even named the rest of "Allah's" star family in the Quran in what were later dubbed the "satanic verses" which Mohammed said Satan put in his mouth.

And of course Abdullah or "slave of allah" was a popular name among those pagans that preceded Mohammed. But even you would recognize that the idol worshiping pagans before Mohammed were slaves of Satan.
Here is the entomology of "Allah".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

"Allah" will NEVER be the name of YHWH. YHWH Himself declared His name to mankind and that's why it occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#Occurrences_and_uses

A false doctrine infiltrated the Jews and they decided it was too sacred of a NAME to say or write, so they replaced it in their modern scriptures with descriptive TERMS for God like Elohim, which can actually be used for God or a god.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#In_later_Judaism

Translated into English YHWH means "I AM", which I personally find to be a wonderfully descriptive NAME for my omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent God. I don't have to point to a black box, in Mecca of all places, for YHWH to hear my prayers.

Exd 3:13...and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1728.0

[[[[In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. (This is said at the opening of every surah)

Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

This is part of the salat (five times prayer) do you think people who say this and actually mean it are so different than yourself?]]]]

Christians are given instruction regarding the dos and don't of prayer. What does scripture say about salat? This may be difficult for someone steeped in Roman church tradition to come to terms with, but please bear in mind they aren't my words.

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Yet Mohammed borrowed the ritual of salat from the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians (which he and 3 of his cousins were heavily steeped in, mentioning Sabians right alongside Christians in the Quran), but while engaging in repetitive prayer Muslims bow toward the same black stone idol and kaaba that immigrants built in the early 5th century for Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

What about pope hats and imam hats?

1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.

Mohammed's religion is always the EXACT OPPOSITE of the new covenant.

Since you cannot find a history of Mecca prior to the Christian era, a reasonable person can only conclude that Mohammed's religion is exactly that, Mohammed's religion. This includes his adopted and adapted Quraish pagan rituals. Indeed the pagans and Muslims performed tawaf shoulder to shoulder right up until the year before Mohammed's last Hajj, when the pagans got thrown out of their own ritual.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'

Even some of Mohammed's closest followers hated to engage in the Saee because they recognized the pagan origins of Mohammed's rituals

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance.... (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)

Yet Islam collapses purely on the basis of it's own historical, archaeological and geographical exposure, without even consideration that Mohammed taught the exact opposite of the Gospel.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

Why not Google it? Here's a wikipedia article on ancient towns in Saudi Arabia. Why do you suppose it is that Mecca is not mentioned?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Towns_in_Saudi_Arabia

http://www.historyofmecca.com/

[Peter]

[[[[[The beauty of it's words is clear proof to me that it is not the creation of any man.]]]]]

I agree some of it was inspired.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
Sura 2:223 your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.
Sura 9:5...slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem...
Surah 9.29 Fight those .... (even if they are) of the People of the Book....

[[[[If you still disagree there is a challenge in the Qur'an you are more than invited to take up.]]]]

This expression of YHWH's love for His people pales, by comparison, doesn't it?

1 John 4.7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxPDTGvGQqM

[Peter]

pending

[name withheld]

[[[[[I choose to believe the Qur'an is the word of God.]]]]]

Even though it's revealed as the exact opposite of the Gospel.

[[[[[Sent to his last messenger Mohammed ........]]]]

Even though Mohammed was a self-proclaimed prophet, with no fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle, that not a single witness ever heard his "Allah" or Gabriel give a single revelation to.
This in spite of Jesus crucifixion prophesied so many hundreds of years in advance.
But why let the truth of the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, that His people have followed through 2 covenants for 3500 years, get in the way of Mohammed's adopted and adapted Quraish rituals and the rest of nonsense you demonstrated you have been fooled into believing?

[[[[[....... peace and blessing upon him, ....]]]]]

On a murdering, prisoner raping, thief, according to Islam's own books.

[[[[[.... an illiterate man.]]]]

But the fact that Mohammed couldn't read or write didn't mean he was deaf and dumb. He was surrounded by friends, wives, concubines, and slaves that had Jewish and Christian backgrounds. Particularly his good friend and x-christian Jabr who he spent long hours with, which even forced Mohammed to make a feeble and transparent attempt at damage control.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

[[[[There is no proof from any man that can change my belief. It would improve your anti-Islam campaign if you read the Qur'an at least in English.]]]]]

My favorite part is sura 57 and Mohammed's chicken and wine serving bordello that he calls "paradise".

[[[[ The beauty of it's words ..........]]]]]

Indeed.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
Sura 2:223 your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.
Sura 9:5...slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem...
Surah 9.29 Fight those .... (even if they are) of the People of the Book....

Mohammed's words are so beautiful, compared to this expression of YHWH's love for His people, aren't they?

1 John 4.7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

[[[[[......... is clear proof to me that it is not the creation of any man.]]]]

It is perhaps the biggest mess of any reprinted book in world history.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

[[[[ If you still disagree there is a challenge in the Qur'an you are more than invited to take up.

Luckily we are both free to believe what we choose and on the last day will face God alone with our sins and good deeds to judge us.

Peace!

http://www.thewaytotruth.org/theholyquran/wordofgod.html

[Peter]

You expressed in your YouTube that you like to study and learn. I realize that I presented an overwhelming amount of information. Since you didn't reply to my responses, to the subjects that you raised, I thought you might appreciate reviewing our chat that I organized on a single page, where the links are live and can simply be clicked on, for future reference. I protected your identity. Simply copy and paste the following link to access it anytime you have questions about the subjects YOU brought up.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2254.0

If not of benefit to you it can at least answer to points similar to yours, that others may have, that ARE genuinely seeking the truth. Particularly including those that were deceived into believing they became Christian simply because a priest sprinkled water over their heads as infants.

[[[[[I choose to believe the Qur'an is the word of God.]]]]]

But solely because MOHAMMED SAID it was, combined with your feelings and emotions.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

This even though you well understand Mohammed taught the exact opposite of the Gospel.

1John 5:10  He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.

[[[[[Sent to his last messenger Mohammed ........]]]]

Even though Mohammed was a self-proclaimed prophet, with no fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle, that not a single witness ever heard his "Allah" or Gabriel give a single revelation to. How many other prophets had to declare over and over that they were prophets to get people to believe them?

You believe this in spite of your knowledge of Jesus crucifixion prophesied so many hundreds of years in advance.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0

But hey, why let the truth of the 1600 year record of YHWH, that His people have followed through 2 covenants for 3500 years, get in the way of prostrating yourself to the Quraish's black stone idol and kaaba, and engaging in the repetitive prayer style of the heathen, 5 times a day.

[[[[[....... peace and blessing upon him, ....]]]]]

Jesus healed the lame so they could walk.
Mohammed brought lameness to the walking. "...they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off."
Jesus brought sight to the blind.
Mohammed brought blindness to the seeing. "...he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes..."
Jesus brought the dead back to life.
Mohammed killed the living.

And that's who you traded off the sinless Messiah - the Savior of the world - for.

You are wishing peace upon a black-hearted murdering, prisoner raping, thief, according to Islam's own books.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2081.0

[[[[[.... an illiterate man.]]]]

The fact that Mohammed couldn't read or write didn't mean he was deaf and dumb. He was surrounded by friends, wives, concubines, and slaves that had Jewish and Christian backgrounds. Particularly his good friend and x-christian Jabr who he spent long hours with. So widely known was Jabr as the source of Mohammed's "revelations" it even compelled Mohammed to make a feeble and transparent attempt at damage control.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

[[[[There is no proof from any man that can change my belief.]]]]]

So much for your proclaimed desire to study and learn. You diligently studied the faults of the Roman church, yet you run and hide from the truth about Mohammed and his 7th century religion. The reason is the spirit of antichrist.

I agree there is no amount of "proof" that can change a heart. Only Jesus Christ can do that. At least now you understand that following Mohammed is not within SCRIPTURAL, historical, archaeological or geographical reason. Even your holy day is Friday because Mohammed wanted to insult the Jews.
The way to Jesus Christ is through TRUTH, because that's what He IS.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life: NO MAN cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Mat 26:28    For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

[[[[[[ It would improve your anti-Islam campaign if you read the Qur'an at least in English.]]]]]

My favorite part is sura 57 and Mohammed's fleshly chicken and wine serving bordello that he calls "paradise". Couches encrusted with jewels, silver goblets, perpetually young servants to serve one while one is defiling those virgins. Silk clothing. ALL FLESH. What is mentioned most? Fresh running water. Who was Mohammed designing his phony "paradise" for? His fellow murdering raping reprobates that lived in one of the driest places that even Arabia has to offer.

But then Mohammed was appealing to his fellow children of the flesh.
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[[[[ The beauty of it's words ..........]]]]]

Right, particularly since 1 out of every 9 verses regards punishment by Mohammed's alter-ego "Allah", who even preordains people from before they are even conceived, to dwell his torture chamber for his torturing pleasure. Simple child psychology to scare folks into submitting to Mohammed.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2165.0
Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Number 6436:
Narrated Aisha:
'A'isha, the mother of the believers, said that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was called to lead the funeral prayer of a child of the Ansar. I said: Allah's Messenger, there is happiness for this child who is a bird from the birds of paradise for it committed no sin nor has he reached the age when one can commit sin. He said: 'A'isha, per adventure, it may be otherwise, because God created for paradise those who are fit for it while they were yet in their father's loins and created for Hell those who are to go to Hell. He created them for Hell while they were yet in their father's loins.  (Book #033, Hadith #6436)

[[[[[......... is clear proof to me that it is not the creation of any man.]]]]

Proof that it's not the creation of any literate man. It is perhaps the biggest mess of any reprinted book in world history.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

But you should at least read it in chronological order so you know which suras are abrogated by the later suras that call Mohammed's people to violence against non-muslims, just as Mohammed's true followers are practicing today.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=609.0

[[[[ If you still disagree there is a challenge in the Qur'an you are more than invited to take up.]]]]

Don't be silly. Shakespeare beats it hands down - and it is even coherent.
Or the greatest story that ever told. Have you ever even read the Gospel?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

"Gerd Puin, the world's leading specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur'anic paleography, studying the oldest manuscripts, speaks with disdain about the willingness of Muslims and non-Muslims alike, to accept Islamic dogma. He says: "The Qur'an claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or clear, but if you just look at it, you will see that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur'an is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur'an is not comprehensible, if it can't even be understood in Arabic, then it's not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid."

[[[[[Luckily we are both free to believe what we choose .......]]]]

But that's only because you live in the U.S.
Bibles and Christian materials are banned in Muslim controlled countries. Muslims that come to know the love of the one true God through a relationship with Jesus Christ, are killed as apostates.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm

Mothers and fathers murder their own children for coming to Jesus Christ. Even in Canada.
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=DLDWGGNX

[[[[[........ and on the last day will face God alone with our sins ......]]]]

Nobody can face our Creator with sin. If we die in sin we are separated from God forever.
That's why our sins have to be remitted through the Son of God, the ONE mediator between man and YHWH, Jesus Christ, first. The WAY YHWH chose to reveal Himself to us.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] HE THAT HATH NOT THE SON OF GOD HATH NOT LIFE.

[[[[[..... and good deeds ........]]]]

You get that from Roman church heresy too. Salvation is a gift of God. No human being could ever earn salvation. Good works are the RESULT of Salvation, NOT the path to it.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Here's what your good deeds mean to our Creator YHWH.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

In the Hebrew those "filthy rags" are a reference to used menstrual cloths.

[[[[[........ to judge us.]]]]

Who will be our judge? The very one you deny.

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

The result?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

The consequence for following THE false prophet Mohammed and his Islamic kingdom "beast"?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Why?

Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

Because Mohammed and his followers are antichrist

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

[[[[Peace!

http://www.thewaytotruth.org/theholyquran/wordofgod.html]]]]]

[Peter]

[[[[Sorry Pete I didn't respond earlier. I have concluded you are set in your belief and in trying to convert me away from the submission to God. You are welcome to your beliefs, but I felt insulted that you don't seem open minded.]]]]

But you didn't even reply to my responses to you so how could you make that conclusion.
Yet you, on the other hand, wrote "There is no proof from any man that can change my belief."

This even though you overcame the Roman church.
I overcame a doctrine myself - futurist eschatology. The whole "7 year tribulation" thing.
But usually once someone overcomes a cherished belief, that they learn was false, their eyes are much more widely open to truth than you indicated that yours are.

[[[[[ I feel you are simply trying to convince me Islam is wrong.]]]]]

Only Jesus can convince you of anything. I am simply pointing out to you that you abandoned salvation through the blood of the Lamb to follow Mohammed and prostrate yourself to the Quraish's black stone idol and their kaaba.

[[[[ There are many ways I can quote from a bible to prove how violent Christianity is, .......]]]]

If this isn't an empty claim then why don't you present some quotes from the new covenant "that prove how violent Christianity is"? Why not start with this handy summary of what Christianity is.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now please show me where Christians are called to violence against others.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0

[[[[[........ but I don't dwell on the evil of the past.]]]]

Where is the evil in Jesus Christ?
Can you see that you are simply trying to tear Jesus down to the level of Mohammed's murder, rape and thievery.
Surely you aren't going to suggest that a woman whose husband and father were beheaded at Mohammed's behest would DESIRE to have sex with the man responsible.

[[[[ You seem to believe that because I was a Catholic I never had any understanding of Christianity, or even read the bible.]]]]

It was hard for me to imagine that anybody that had ever read the Gospel could ever characterize the mess that Mohammed left behind as a challenge to scripture. To the greatest story ever told.

Also in 1546 Catholics added books to their bible from the old covenant that even the Jews didn't consider inspired.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=7.0

[[[[[ Just for your information I was a confirmed Catholic meaning I went for 8 years of catechism or study and then as a young adult re-confirmed my faith.]]]]

I understand you engaged in Roman catholic rituals. Now you've traded them for Mohammed's adopted and adapted Quraish rituals.

But were you ever born again?

[[[[Your assumptions are a disservice to me, and leave me feeling any intelligent correspondence is not beneficial.]]]]]

I don't believe further correspondence would be beneficial either, at least until you spend a little time reviewing our correspondence up to this point. That's why I created that handy record of it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2254.0

So that as a point comes to your mind, you can copy and paste the link, and review our exchange on that point. The search function works great. If you are trying to remember what I wrote about the name Allah, for example, all you have to do is copy and paste that link and type Allah into the search box, and you will see all the times it was used in our chat.

The forum also makes it a lot easier to chat and quote and such. You are free to create any login ID that you want, without compromising your YouTube identity.

[[[[[ Frankly I'm feeling insulted.]]]]

I understand my approach is sometimes a bit unvarnished, but how could you expect to be left feeling other than insulted, when you have chosen to reject the Savior of the world, to follow the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel, through Mohammed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxPDTGvGQqM

[Peter]

Please let me leave you with one last thought. By the 7th century, hundreds of years after the cross, the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, had been copied tens of thousands of times, and was being read all over the known world. So why do you suppose Mohammed's "Allah" inspired him to declare

5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Was Mohammed's Allah just ignorant to the alleged "corruption" of the Gospel, that Mohammed's modern followers declare, to have made such a foolish suggestion?

Sura 5:68 Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord."

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14IlPsZlks8

[Peter]

"The one quote from the Qur'an is out of context, however if you know when the surah was given then you can understand if it pertained to a particular battle..."

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Christians and Jews do not acknowledge nor submit to Mohammed's religion. Christians and Jews are unbelievers - kuffar - that are subjected to the penalty tax. Yes it means penalty. But then you are all for killing others who don't want to submit to Mohammed's "Allah"? Mohammed's true followers sure are.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

So which battle weren't Mohammed's followers supposed to smite the unbeliever at the neck in?

623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammads father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
633 - Battle at Oman
633 - Battle at Hadramaut.
633 - Battle of Kazima
633 - Battle of Walaja
633 - Battle of Ulleis
633 - Battle of Anbar
634 - Battle of Basra,
634 - Battle of Damascus
634 - Battle of Ajnadin.
634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
634 - Battle of Namaraq
634 - Battle of Saqatia.
635 - Battle of Bridge.
635 - Battle of Buwaib.
635 - Conquest of Damascus.
635 - Battle of Fahl.
636 - Battle of Yermuk.
636 - Battle of Qadsiyia.
636 - Conquest of Madain.
637 - Battle of Jalula.
638 - Battle of Yarmouk.
638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
641 - Battle of Nihawand
642 - Battle of Ray in Persia
643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
644 - Conquest of Fars
644 - Conquest of Kharan.
644 - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
656 - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
659 - Conquest of Egypt
661 - Ali is murdered.
662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
677 - Siege of Constantinople
687 - Battle of Kufa
691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
711 - Conquest of Spain
713 - Conquest of Multan
716 - Invasion of Constantinople
732 - Battle of Tours in France.
740 - Battle of the Nobles.
741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
748 - Battle of Rayy.
749 - Battle of lsfahan
749 - Battle of Nihawand
750 - Battle of Zab
772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxPDTGvGQqM

[Peter]

Blessedly according to Islamic experts 75% of Muslim so-called converts in the U.S. leave Islam within a few years. Perhaps those in the 25% are women who have children with Muslim men that know that if they try to leave their kids will be kidnapped to the Middle East and stuffed in burkas, and perhaps prison converts number among that 25% as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44dO9lWO830