My Mufti friend np33123 on what I believe - 10-21

[Peter]

11-5

[[[[The priests wanted to dishonor King David because he dwelled in Arabia, in the tents of Kedar, .........]]]]

Kedar was a thousand kilometers to the north of Mecca. LOOK IT UP.
http://www.petewaldo.com/12_sons_tribes_ishmael.htm

Yahweh had David acquire the land, on which Yahweh had David's son Solomon build the temple. Please look at the temple images on this page and compare the temple that Yahweh had His people build on Mt. Moriah in THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs, compared to the unsymmetrical black box that Satan was ignorant enough to have his people build in a valley in Mecca.
Please copy and paste this link and compare them.
http://www.petewaldo.com/mecca.htm

[[[[[........ the son of Ishmael wherein there is the house of the Lord's glory (in Mecca) and also he made Prophecies about Muhammad and the Quran
The Bible claims that King David Committed Adultery, Commanded to kill one of his best soldiers to hide his crime of adultery and to take his wife etc.]]]]]

You brought nothing but foolish lies about the bible in your efforts to conform it to Muhammad's recycled 7th century Arabian paganism.

Still NOT A SHRED of EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD. Even as there are a million artifacts just on display in Jerusalem.
STILL NOT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE OF MECCA prior to the 4th century AD. This supposed EPICENTER of Muhammadanism allegedly since ADAM!

All you could bring was LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE, as if the provable foolishness of a bunch of 7th - 9th century SW Arabian desert dwellers LIES could replace the PERFECTLY HISTORICALLY, ARCHAEOLOGICALLY, GEOGRAPHICALLY, REASONABLE AND SOUND RECORD found in Holy Scripture.

LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE because you follow THE FATHER OF LIES through the Quran and Hadith of THE PROPHET OF THE FATHER OF LIES.

All you have to do is honestly ask yourself when Islamic so-called "tradition" BEGAN and you can conclude that it's nothing more than 7th to 9th century Arabian buffoonery, CREATED by a bunch of SW Arabian desert dwellers, to embellish Satan's prophet's blasphemy.

sent with THE False Prophet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEro81ygXQ

[Peter]

11-5

Muhammadans even prostrate themselves 5 times a day, to the very same black stone idol that the Quraish pagans venerated, even as Muhammadans lie by claiming that they don't venerate it.

sent with Black Stone Veneration at the Kaaba in Mecca
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGyWs__Y-rU

[Peter]

(No need to waste your time reading this post, as it is quoted in it's entirety, in the replies that follow)

11-5

ABOUT MY COMMENT ON THE FIG TREE PETEWALDO STILL SENDS ME HIS FILTHY MESSAGES TO MY YOUTUBE EMAIL HE IS COWARD TO DEBATE ON THE CHANNEL OF BROTHER BeholderGuard MY ANSWER TO HIM IS WITH CAPITAL LETTERS:
PeteWaldo:Jesus chastised the Pharisees for letting their tradition nullify scripture. (Muhammadans do even worse today, outright blaspheming scripture!). They rejected that Jesus is their Messiah so Judaism was not allowed to produce fruit beyond that point in history. NP333123:( THEN THAT MEANS GOD DID MISTAKE AND DID NOT KNOW THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL WILL KILL HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ? ! PeteWaldo:Prior to the first century Judaism was a very proselytizing religion. CONT...


NP333123:( WHAT? JUDAISM? WHAT IS THAT? IS THAT THE RELIGION OF ADAM AND EVE, NOAH ,HEBER, ABRAHAM , MOSES , JESUS , ETC. ? DID JUDAH CREATE A NEW RELIGION CALLED JUDAISM? ) Petewaldo:After the first century not at all, again proving the truth of Jesus' words. Today Jews compose just 2/10 of 1% of the world's population. NP333123: ( TODAY THEY STILL FIGHT WITH GOD AND TRY TO CHANGE GOD'S LAW AND CORRUPT IT THAT'S WHY GOD NAMED JACOB ISRAEL (THIS WHO FIGHT WITH GOD )!

Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael WERE NEVER WITHIN 1,000 KILOMETERS - of where Mecca was eventually built - 1500 years after they walked the earth. The archaeological and historical evidence tells us that Abraham's travels were in the fertile crescent.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm#abraham_journey THEN HOW KING DAVID WENT TO MECCA IT IS RECORDED IN YOUR CORRUPTED BIBLE I SHOW YOU THE PROOF !

That is a flat out ignorant and very foolish lie. The bible IS THE ONLY HISTORICAL BOOK we have of those times. It is ever-increasingly proven by the archaeological evidence to be a reliable record of ancient history.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2423.0 IF THE CORRUPTED BIBLE IS A HISTORICAL BOOK HOW YOU CLAIM THEN WHY IS NOT CLEAR IN YEARS AND DATES HOW I KNOW THE HISTORICAL BOOKS ARE SHOWING THE YEARS AND THE DATES ETC. ?


Calling your own false prophet a liar now. Muhammad said this in his early Mecca days, before the first word was written in Muhammadanism.
Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/ BY GIVING ME EXAMPLES OUT OF CONTEXT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!
Scribes scrupulously COPIED Scripture. They multiplied it. The later in time, the more copies there were. And in several languages so that they could be compared to each other.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/bible_manuscript_errors_.htm THAT WAS THE EAXCT TIME FOR THE CORRUPTION OF THE BIBLE TO PUT IN IT THAT WHAT THEY LIKE AND THAT WHAT THEY DON NOT LIKE TO THROW AWAY! HMMMMMMMM!

Yet Muhammadanism professes the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel - the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel - beginning to end.
That's not the result of some minor scribal error, but concrete proof that Muhammadanism is a creation of Satan - the father of lies.
It was one of Satan's angels (Koine Greek "aggelos" means messenger - good or evil) that met Muhammad in that cave.( THE WHOLE SUBJECT ? WHAT WAS THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF JESUS TO COME TO SAVE THE WORLD OR LET WE SEE : (Matthew 15:24) ??????????????????????????????????????????

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: THAT IS FOR YOU THE ZIONISTS, THE MASONS, THE FALSE FOLLOWERS OF THE TRUE MESSIAH JESUS WHO CHANGE THE WHOLE SUBJECT!
________________________________

The reason you have to believe it is some sort of a mystery of the Quraish pagan's "Allah" (UNTIL TODAY THE CHRISTIAN ARABS ARE WORSHIPING IN THEIR BIBLE THE "QURAISH PAGAN'S ALLAH " BY PRAYING TO HIM EVERY DAY ) is because the nonsense in the Quran and Hadith are PROVABLY PURE LIES because they ARE HISTORICAL AND GEOGRAPHICAL IMPOSSIBILITIES. (THAT'S WHY THE WHOLE SCIENTIFIC WORLD IS AMAZED BY THE NOBEL QUR'AN AND NOT WITH THE BIBLE) ! Nor is there any archaeological evidence to support that ridiculous tripe. That's why you can't explain it but instead have to make the ridiculous statement "ALLAH'S JOB HE WILL EXPLAIN IT", to explain the IMPOSSIBILITY OF ISLAM. (YES ALLAH WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU )! BUT JESUS CAN NOT EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT KIND OF GOD IS HE WHEN HE CAN NOT CONTROL HIS ANGER AND RIGHT A WAY CURSES THE INNOSENT FIG TREE AND DOESN'T EVEN KNOW THAT IS NOT THE SEASON OF THE FIGS ?! YOU SHOULD CORRUPT THE BIBLE ONE MORE TIME TO ERASE ALL THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE IN OUR FAVOUR !

THE TRUTH is that YOU CANNOT DENY that the Kaaba, and all your foolish rituals and black stone idol veneration, are ALL FROM QURAISH PAGANISM. Whether the moon, sun and star worship rituals of the Hajj, or the recycled jinn devil worship of the Sa'ee of the Umrah. THE NOBEL QUR'AN IS 100% VERY CLEAR WHAT IS WRITTEN IN IT THAT YOUR CLAIM IS JUST YOUR OWN SCHIZOPHRENIC FABRICATION !
______________________________

Another lie. Baca of scripture is a valley near ZION. ( THAT IS YOUR LIE) ! "Baca" is a HEBREW name from antiquity that does not occur in the ARABIC Quran. In fact Arabic is such a new language( A NEW LANGUAGE )? that it wasn't even a written language before about the 3rd century AD.( THAT IS RIGHT ARABIC ABJAD IS FROM 400 AD AND THE PARENT SYSTEMS ARE : EGYPTIAN HIEROGLIPHS, PROTO-SINATIC, PHOENICIAN, ARAMAIC, SYRIAC, NABATAEAN, ARABIC ABJAD. BUT WHAT THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE FACTS THAT THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT KING DAVID WAS IN MECCA/ BACCA AND YOU KNOW THE REST. TODAY HEBREW IS FROM PALEO-HEBREW ALPHABET



( YOU REALLY MUST EDUCATE YOUR SELF ABOUT ALL SEMITIC LANGUAGES ARAMAIC, HEBREW, ARABIC ( WHAT LANGUAGE ABRAHAM SPOKE WITH HIS FIRST BORN SON ISHMAEL IF ARABIC IS SO NEW LANGUAGE ACCORDING TO YOU , ISN'T ISHMAEL A SEMITIC HEBREW FROM HIS FATHER DIDN'T HE SPEAK HEBREW, ARAMAIC, ARABIC AT THAT TIME ? ) ETC. AND YOU MUST KNOW HOW THE PHOENICIAN AND PROTO- SINAITIC PLAYED BIG ROLE FOR ALL ALPHABETS IN THE WHOLE HUMAN WORLD !

[Peter]

11-5

[[[[ABOUT MY COMMENT ON THE FIG TREE PETEWALDO STILL SENDS ME HIS FILTHY MESSAGES TO MY YOUTUBE EMAIL HE IS COWARD TO DEBATE ON THE CHANNEL OF BROTHER BeholderGuard .......]]]]

Don't be silly. I can't. I sent BeholderGuard a very warm welcome to the forum, because he created a username and logged into the Islam-Christian Forum.
I copy and pasted my kind thank you and the terrified hysterical reactions of BeholderGuard and friendofutube here.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2830.msg11572#msg11572

Beholderguard removed the thank you and banned me from his comments because the last thing he wants is for his cadre of antichrists to see how afraid he is of returning to the forum.

Now why don't you post the link to BeholderGuard's forum thread in his channel comments, and tell him not to run away like a little girl? All we require is members ENGAGE in an EXCHANGE.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2835.0

Copy and paste it like this and tell BeholderGuard to come back to the Forum:
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=2835.0

He will ban you too!

Why don't you claim your own thread instead of running away from the forum like a little girl, and making me copy and paste your nonsense into the forum, like I did here?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2839.0

sent with "Muslims believe in Jesus and all the prophets."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2kCxOGGM5w

[Peter]

11-5

[[[Calling your own false prophet a liar now. Muhammad said this in his early Mecca days, before the first word was written in Muhammadanism.
Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/ BY GIVING ME EXAMPLES OUT OF CONTEXT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY! ]]]]

We know all too well how it works my friend.
Muhammad made such a contradictory mess of his record over just 23 years, that all of Muhammad's earlier more peaceful garbage, is abrogated by his later imperialistic, murderous, sex crazed, thieving, garbage.

Quran 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar

2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one.

By Muhammad's day the Gospel had been copied tens of thousands of times, into every popular language, and had been read all over the known world for centuries.
There was ONLY ONE GOSPEL in Muhammad's 7th century, and it's WHOLE SUBJECT was the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah.
THE SAME GOSPEL WE HAVE TODAY.
In that 7th century Muhammad said:

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein.

Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.

So was Muhammad just stupid for recommending a book you call corrupt?

sent with The Quran & Abrogation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsPA_FZCjws

[Peter]

11-5

My friend, simply repeating the foolishness from Muhammadanisms 7th-9th century books will never make it magically come true, any more than it will magically move Mecca 1 inch closer, than the 1200 KM it is away from THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs.
Not any more than it will make praying toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol, or engaging in the Arabian jinn-devil worship ritual of the Sa'ee, have anything to do with the one true God of the Scriptures Yahweh, who hates such idolatry and punished His people repeatedly for it.

sent with THE NAME ALLAH - MOON GOD?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLBam06iyg

[Peter]

11-5

Translate that for me please i don't know Hebrew :

.... 2:33 אברהם הלך אל ההר להקריב את ישמעאל להגשים את מה שאל אלוהים לו לעשות .......
________________________

Makkah/Mecca established during prophet Ibraham time about 4000 years ago
Prophet Ibraham and his first born son Ishmael built Al Kaaba there in compliance with ALLAH orders! First prophet Abraham/Ibrahim (PBUH) went to Mecca and left his wife and his son Ishmael/Ismail (PBUH) in Mecca. Ishmael/Ismail and his mother founded Mecca.
At first there was no water and was only desert.
By ALLAH's POWER miraculously the ZamZam spring started with water and until now this spring is giving water.
Today Muslims drink this water as a holy water.
This water amazingly is different of all waters in the world.
Japanese professor Emoto did some research about this water and was amazed.
Does Jerusalem have such water? If not, why? Isn't it a chosen city?
LET YOUR CHRISTIAN SCIENTISTS RESEARCH AND EXPLAIN TO THE WORLD WHEN THE ZAM-ZAM SPRING WATER START ! AND THAT WILL BE THE GREAT ANSWER TO YOUR KAFIR QUESTION "WAS MECCA ESTABLISHED " BEFORE 4TH CENTURY ? ZAM-ZAM-WATER IS THE ANSWER!

[Peter]

11-6

[[[[Translate that for me please i don't know Hebrew :

.... 2:33 אברהם הלך אל ההר להקריב את ישמעאל להגשים את מה שאל אלוהים לו לעשות .......]]]]]]

Sure, you don't know what it says. Taqiyyah comes pretty naturally to you doesn't it Tereeb?

2:33 Abraham went to the mountain to sacrifice Ishmael to fulfill what God asked him to do .......

Are you creating your own bible verses now like your famous Greek sophist styled lying antichrist Ahmed Deedat?

sent with Deedat - First Epistle of John confirms Mohammed was not antichrist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDslsWDzPIc

[Peter]

11-6

[[[[Makkah/Mecca established during prophet Ibraham time about 4000 years ago
Prophet Ibraham and his first born son Ishmael built Al Kaaba there in compliance with ALLAH orders! First prophet Abraham/Ibrahim (PBUH) went to Mecca and left his wife and his son Ishmael/Ismail (PBUH) in Mecca. Ishmael/Ismail and his mother founded Mecca.]]]]]

What is the source of this information.

[Peter]

11-5

ABOUT MY COMMENT ON THE FIG TREE PETEWALDO STILL SENDS ME HIS FILTHY MESSAGES TO MY YOUTUBE EMAIL HE IS COWARD TO DEBATE ON THE CHANNEL OF BROTHER BeholderGuard ........

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2839.msg11680#msg11680

.......... MY ANSWER TO HIM IS WITH CAPITAL LETTERS:
PeteWaldo:Jesus chastised the Pharisees for letting their tradition nullify scripture. (Muhammadans do even worse today, outright blaspheming scripture!). They rejected that Jesus is their Messiah so Judaism was not allowed to produce fruit beyond that point in history. NP333123:( THEN THAT MEANS GOD DID MISTAKE AND DID NOT KNOW THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL WILL KILL HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ? !

It was the sinful nature of mankind that killed Jesus.
It was you and I that killed Jesus.

PeteWaldo:Prior to the first century Judaism was a very proselytizing religion. CONT...


NP333123:( WHAT? JUDAISM? WHAT IS THAT? IS THAT THE RELIGION OF ADAM AND EVE, NOAH ,HEBER, ABRAHAM , MOSES , JESUS , ETC. ? DID JUDAH CREATE A NEW RELIGION CALLED JUDAISM? )

It is the religion of Yahweh's people of the old covenant as detailed in the scriptures, that revolved around their temple IN ZION that Yahweh had HIS people build.
It certainly has nothing to with the Quraish pagan's kaaba and black stone idol located 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs.

Petewaldo:After the first century not at all, again proving the truth of Jesus' words. Today Jews compose just 2/10 of 1% of the world's population. NP333123: ( TODAY THEY STILL FIGHT WITH GOD AND TRY TO CHANGE GOD'S LAW AND CORRUPT IT THAT'S WHY GOD NAMED JACOB ISRAEL (THIS WHO FIGHT WITH GOD )!

This from a guy that prostrates himself 5 times a day to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca. Even travels to Mecca and marches around it 7 times as the Arabian pagans did.

Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael WERE NEVER WITHIN 1,000 KILOMETERS - of where Mecca was eventually built - 1500 years after they walked the earth. The archaeological and historical evidence tells us that Abraham's travels were in the fertile crescent.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm#abraham_journey THEN HOW KING DAVID WENT TO MECCA IT IS RECORDED IN YOUR CORRUPTED BIBLE I SHOW YOU THE PROOF !

King David was never within a thousand kilometers of Mecca, any more than Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael were. Any suggestion of such an absurd notion would have to come from the pure fiction of Muhammadan 7th-9th century created so-called "tradition".

That is a flat out ignorant and very foolish lie. The bible IS THE ONLY HISTORICAL BOOK we have of those times. It is ever-increasingly proven by the archaeological evidence to be a reliable record of ancient history.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2423.0 IF THE CORRUPTED BIBLE IS A HISTORICAL BOOK HOW YOU CLAIM THEN WHY IS NOT CLEAR IN YEARS AND DATES HOW I KNOW THE HISTORICAL BOOKS ARE SHOWING THE YEARS AND THE DATES ETC. ?

It is clear on many years in history. Here are some examples of dating of 2500 years ago.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm

Calling your own false prophet a liar now. Muhammad said this in his early Mecca days, before the first word was written in Muhammadanism.
Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/ BY GIVING ME EXAMPLES OUT OF CONTEXT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2854.msg11681#msg11681

Scribes scrupulously COPIED Scripture. They multiplied it. The later in time, the more copies there were. And in several languages so that they could be compared to each other.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/bible_manuscript_errors_.htm THAT WAS THE EAXCT TIME FOR THE CORRUPTION OF THE BIBLE TO PUT IN IT THAT WHAT THEY LIKE AND THAT WHAT THEY DON NOT LIKE TO THROW AWAY! HMMMMMMMM!

But to make the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel become the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it had been, would have required throwing out thousands of copies, in many languages, and starting from scratch, all over the known world, and making the new one UNIFORMLY the opposite, all over the known world. Quite a feat indeed! It would also have required throwing out the secular historical record of the crucifixion of the Messiah and recreating it as well.

Yet Muhammadanism professes the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel - the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel - beginning to end.
That's not the result of some minor scribal error, but concrete proof that Muhammadanism is a creation of Satan - the father of lies.
It was one of Satan's angels (Koine Greek "aggelos" means messenger - good or evil) that met Muhammad in that cave.( THE WHOLE SUBJECT ? WHAT WAS THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF JESUS TO COME TO SAVE THE WORLD OR LET WE SEE : (Matthew 15:24)

Yes. To save all that have been shown the truth, and believe IN Him.
Jhn 3:16    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Though those ignorant or mentally incapacitated are not condemned.
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

But those like you that blaspheme Jesus Christ and the Gospel will not be able to plead ignorance when you stand before the very Son of the Living God that you deny:

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: THAT IS FOR YOU THE ZIONISTS, THE MASONS, THE FALSE FOLLOWERS OF THE TRUE MESSIAH JESUS WHO CHANGE THE WHOLE SUBJECT!

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/bible_manuscript_errors_.htm

________________________________

The reason you have to believe it is some sort of a mystery of the Quraish pagan's "Allah" (UNTIL TODAY THE CHRISTIAN ARABS ARE WORSHIPING IN THEIR BIBLE THE "QURAISH PAGAN'S ALLAH " BY PRAYING TO HIM EVERY DAY )

That is a tragic error. I trust as we go further into this information age Arabic speaking people will increasingly understand the error of their ways.
But the fact remains that just because a bunch of Arabs get YHWH - Yahweh's - name wrong doesn't change His name as it occurs nearly 7,000 times in Holy Scripture.

is because the nonsense in the Quran and Hadith are PROVABLY PURE LIES because they ARE HISTORICAL AND GEOGRAPHICAL IMPOSSIBILITIES. (THAT'S WHY THE WHOLE SCIENTIFIC WORLD IS AMAZED BY THE NOBEL QUR'AN AND NOT WITH THE BIBLE) !

And here I thought the "whole scientific world" were largely atheist and agnostic. I didn't know they were all Muslims!

Nor is there any archaeological evidence to support that ridiculous tripe. That's why you can't explain it but instead have to make the ridiculous statement "ALLAH'S JOB HE WILL EXPLAIN IT", to explain the IMPOSSIBILITY OF ISLAM. (YES ALLAH WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU )! BUT JESUS CAN NOT EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT KIND OF GOD IS HE WHEN HE CAN NOT CONTROL HIS ANGER AND RIGHT A WAY CURSES THE INNOSENT FIG TREE ........

That's the trouble when a natural man tries to understand the things of the Spirit of God. First off, since literal fig trees don't have souls or consciences they can't be innocent or guilty. Second this is a reference to Yahweh's people as defined earlier in scripture.

Hsa 9:10    I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: [but] they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto [that] shame; and [their] abominations were according as they loved.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=493.0

Jesus spoke this parable indicating that the fig tree would not proselytize in the future, as I explained earlier - and it hasn't - just as Jesus said it wouldn't.

......... AND DOESN'T EVEN KNOW THAT IS NOT THE SEASON OF THE FIGS ?! YOU SHOULD CORRUPT THE BIBLE ONE MORE TIME TO ERASE ALL THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE IN OUR FAVOUR !

What you mean is corrupt it, to remove the things "IN FAVOR" of the Quraish pagan Mecca centered black stone idol worship that came along 6 CENTURIES LATER in the SW Arabian desert, when Muhammad incorporated Quraish paganism into his cult?

THE TRUTH is that YOU CANNOT DENY that the Kaaba, and all your foolish rituals and black stone idol veneration, are ALL FROM QURAISH PAGANISM. Whether the moon, sun and star worship rituals of the Hajj, or the recycled jinn devil worship of the Sa'ee of the Umrah. THE NOBEL QUR'AN IS 100% VERY CLEAR WHAT IS WRITTEN IN IT THAT YOUR CLAIM IS JUST YOUR OWN SCHIZOPHRENIC FABRICATION !

That the Quraish circumambulated the Kaaba 7 times in moon, sun, and star worship is a historical matter of fact. That they ran back and forth between SAfa and Marwah 7 times in jinn-devil worship is a matter of historical fact. That the Sabians prayed 5 times a day, performed ablution, prostrated in prayer, wore long white robes, and fasted during the same month as Ramadan in Arabian moon worship is a historical matter of fact.

______________________________

Another lie. Baca of scripture is a valley near ZION. ( THAT IS YOUR LIE) ! "Baca" is a HEBREW name from antiquity that does not occur in the ARABIC Quran. In fact Arabic is such a new language( A NEW LANGUAGE )? that it wasn't even a written language before about the 3rd century AD.( THAT IS RIGHT ARABIC ABJAD IS FROM 400 AD AND THE PARENT SYSTEMS ARE : EGYPTIAN HIEROGLIPHS, PROTO-SINATIC, PHOENICIAN, ARAMAIC, SYRIAC, NABATAEAN, ARABIC ABJAD. BUT WHAT THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE FACTS THAT THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT KING DAVID WAS IN MECCA/ .......

Interesting, since Mecca didn't even exist until the 4th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1132.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0

....... BACCA AND YOU KNOW THE REST. TODAY HEBREW IS FROM PALEO-HEBREW ALPHABET



( YOU REALLY MUST EDUCATE YOUR SELF ABOUT ALL SEMITIC LANGUAGES ARAMAIC, HEBREW, ARABIC ( WHAT LANGUAGE ABRAHAM SPOKE WITH HIS FIRST BORN SON ISHMAEL IF ARABIC IS SO NEW LANGUAGE ACCORDING TO YOU , ......

But you yourself admitted that it is a new language that wasn't even written until the 4th century AD. Yet you are trying to tell us that Abraham spoke in the tongue of the Quraish pagans over a thousand years before the language was invented.

........ ISN'T ISHMAEL A SEMITIC HEBREW FROM HIS FATHER DIDN'T HE SPEAK HEBREW, ARAMAIC, ARABIC AT THAT TIME ? ) ETC. AND YOU MUST KNOW HOW THE PHOENICIAN AND PROTO- SINAITIC PLAYED BIG ROLE FOR ALL ALPHABETS IN THE WHOLE HUMAN WORLD !

But Arabic only in Arabian paganism. The pop Quraish Arabic has nothing whatsoever to do with Scripture.

[Peter]

At first there was no water and was only desert.

Perhaps not until Muhammad's grandfather dug the well of Zamzam to establish a Hajj (pagan carnival) around idols of the most venerated priest and priestess - Asaf and Naelah - of the Arabian jinn-devil religion. The pagan tradition said that they fornicated inside the Kaaba and the pagan's "Allah" turned them into stone.
It is Islamic history that tells us that the well of Zamzam was dug by Mohammed's grandfather Abdel Mutaleb. (Ibn Hisham, I, pages 117 and 118)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1209.0

By ALLAH's POWER miraculously the ZamZam spring started with water and until now this spring is giving water.

First off it's A WELL - not a spring. Secondly, most wells around the world never dry up. Third, the static head of the well of Zamzam is 3.23 m. That is to say the water level is about 10.6 ft down in the ground.
We might be a little more impressed if it flowed forth like this artisian well in Oklahoma that yields about 4-500 gallons per minute.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2026.msg8537#msg8537

Today Muslims drink this water as a holy water.

Muslims consider that well water holy because Muslims are children of the flesh, and follow the pagan's "Allah" and primitive Arabian superstitions and pagan rituals, instead of following Yahweh through His Word.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2771.0

This water amazingly is different of all waters in the world.
Japanese professor Emoto did some research about this water and was amazed.

Amazed at what? That the water tastes funny and contains:
* Sodium 133 mg/L
    * Calcium 96 mg/L
    * Magnesium 38.88 mg/L
    * Potassium 43.3 mg/L
    * Bicarbonate 195.4 mg/L
    * Chloride 163.3 mg/L
    * Fluoride 0.72 mg/L
    * Nitrate 124.8 mg/L
    * Sulfate 124.0 mg/L
    * pH 8
    * Total dissolve alkalinity 835 mg/L
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1168.msg8532#msg8532

Does Jerusalem have such water?

It's called the Gihon Spring, and it ACTUALLY IS A SPRING, not just a hole in the ground like Zamzam that Muhammad's grandfather dug.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Archaeology/jerwater.html
"The City of David was built on a hill of hard limestone, in which underground water created karstic caves. The Gihon Spring, the only source of water of the city, emerges in the Kidron Valley, east of the City of David. It is mentioned many times in the Bible, e.g., its location in the valley east of the city (II Chronicles 33:14); the anointing of Solomon as King of Israel (I Kings 1:35, 45). It made the founding of the City of David possible, and sustained its existence for thousands of years. The Hebrew name of the spring is derived from the verb meaning "to gush forth," reflecting the flow of the spring, which is not steady, but intermittent, its frequency varying with the seasons of the year and annual precipitation. It is a siphon-type karst spring fed by groundwater that accumulates in a subterranean cave. Each time that space fills to the brim, it empties at once through cracks in the rock and is siphoned to the surface. This natural feature made it necessary to accumulate water in a pool, to be available at times when the spring was not "gushing forth.""

But to Jews and Christians it's just water, not magic from the Arabian pagan's "Allah".

If not, why? Isn't it a chosen city?
LET YOUR CHRISTIAN SCIENTISTS RESEARCH AND EXPLAIN TO THE WORLD WHEN THE ZAM-ZAM SPRING WATER START !

The Islamic historical record already explained that. When Muhammad's grandfather dug it in the 6th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1209.0

AND THAT WILL BE THE GREAT ANSWER TO YOUR KAFIR QUESTION "WAS MECCA ESTABLISHED " BEFORE 4TH CENTURY ? ZAM-ZAM-WATER IS THE ANSWER!

Zamzam is just a well with a dumb name my friend, and dug by Muhammad's grandfather, thousands of years after the spring in Jerusalem had been gushing forth.

Yet you suggest that the existence of a simple water well, somehow substitutes for thousands of years of historical and archaeological record of Mecca, prior to the 4th century AD when the actual historical record tells us that pagan immigrants from Yemen settled the area.
Don't even you find your suggestion, that it somehow creates a pre 4th century historical and archaeological record of Mecca from thin air, a little peculiar?

[Peter]

11-6

It is not from the Bible ask the Jews why they hide this book from the Christians !
_________________________

@PETEWALDO:
WE WILL ALLOW THE KAFIR SCIENTISTS TO COME TO MECCA WITH THEIR MODERN TECHNOLOGY AND TO EXPLAIN TO THE WORLD WHEN THE ZAM-ZAM WATER SPRING START AND IF THEY CONFIRM THAT WAS THE EXACT TIME WHEN ISHMAEL/ISMAIL AND HIS MOTHER HAGER WERE THERE (A LONG BEFORE 4TH CENTURY) HOW THE NOBEL QUR'AN TELLS US THEN YOU MUST ACCEPT ISLAM 100% ! AND ALL YOUR FABRICATIONS WILL GO TO HELL! INSHA ALLAH !

LET YOUR CHRISTIAN SCIENTISTS RESEARCH AND EXPLAIN TO THE WORLD WHEN THE ZAM-ZAM SPRING WATER START ! AND THAT WILL BE THE GREAT ANSWER TO YOUR KAFIR QUESTION "WAS MECCA ESTABLISHED " BEFORE 4TH CENTURY ? ZAM-ZAM-WATER IS THE ANSWER!

[Peter]

11-6

[[[[Makkah/Mecca established during prophet Ibraham time about 4000 years ago
Prophet Ibraham and his first born son Ishmael built Al Kaaba there in compliance with ALLAH orders! First prophet Abraham/Ibrahim (PBUH) went to Mecca and left his wife and his son Ishmael/Ismail (PBUH) in Mecca. Ishmael/Ismail and his mother founded Mecca.]]]]]

What is the source of this information.
__________________________

You replied.

[[[[[It is not from the Bible ask the Jews why they hide this book from the Christians!]]]]]

It's true it isn't from the bible. But I didn't ask where it ISN'T FROM. I asked you where IT IS FROM.
What source did you get the above claims from?

[Peter]

11-6

Cat got your tongue? Let me help.
Let's try Wikipedia since it's about the same as the other Muhammadan accounts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael#Ishmael_in_Muslim_literature

"In Islamic tradition, Abraham took Hagar and Ishmael to the desert himself, where he left them and returned to his household."

So Abraham left his wife Sarah and son Isaac at their home in Hebron, and wandered 1200 kilometers across harsh barren desert to Mecca with Sarah's bondwoman Hagar and her son Ishmael, and then turned around and wandered across the 1200 kilometers of harsh barren desert back home.
Is that about the size of it?

"In the desert, the young Ishmael cried with thirst.[23] His mother searched for water, which resulted in her running seven times between the Safa and Marwah hills, before God helped them by making spring water gush forth from the Zamzam well, so both mother and son could rejuvenate themselves."

So then Ishmael didn't get thirsty, until Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar had wandered across 1200 kilometers of harsh Arabian desert, and arrived in Mecca?

Does that make sense to you?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2854.msg11690#msg11690

sent with ISHMAEL, HAGAR, PARAN & MECCA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh5E--IlCKk

[Peter]

11-6

Isaiah 29 : 11-12
ISN'T THAT FOR THE LAST PROPHET MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.)?
WHAT MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.) SAID TO ANGEL GABRIEL WHEN HE ASKED HIM TO READ " IQRA YA MUHAMMAD IQRA "( READ MUHAMMAD READ ) AND MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.)
SAID I CAN NOT READ!

[Peter]

11-6

Wait a minute my friend. You made the scripture contrary claim that:

[[[[Makkah/Mecca established during prophet Ibraham time about 4000 years ago
Prophet Ibraham and his first born son Ishmael built Al Kaaba there in compliance with ALLAH orders! First prophet Abraham/Ibrahim (PBUH) went to Mecca and left his wife and his son Ishmael/Ismail (PBUH) in Mecca. Ishmael/Ismail and his mother founded Mecca.]]]]]

When I asked: "What is the source of this information."

You replied: "It is not from the Bible ask the Jews why they hide this book from the Christians!"

And since there is no question it isn't from the bible I asked: "It's true it isn't from the bible. But I didn't ask where it ISN'T FROM. I asked you where IT IS FROM.
What source did you get the above claims from?"

In answer to that - after just having told me the bible was not the source - you turned around and quoted a random unrelated verse out of the bible, as if you got the story from the bible, which only added another false claim.

Please answer the question. What is the source that you got the above quoted information on Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael from, that is so contrary to scripture, history, archaeology and geography?

[Peter]

11-6

[[[[Here np confides in me about a secret book of Isaiah that a Rabbi told him about, but he doesn't want it to get back to the Rabbi that he told anybody about it. So I didn't copy and paste the PM, but gave a rundown of it's content.]]]]

Sure. A "secret" book of Isaiah runs that exactly contrary to SCRIPTURE, history, archaeology and geography, that has Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandering 1200 kilometers to Mecca. Makes perfect sense doesn't it?

But that nonsense still didn't answer the question.

What is the source that YOU got YOUR information on Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael from, that is so contrary to scripture, history, archaeology and geography?

I detailed the Muhammadan account of things in the other PM. Please respond to it.

[Peter]

11-6

We will see who is right and who is wrong! I am based on real facts! You are based on forgery! What do you think about ZAM-ZAM water? Did the spring exist before Abraham or it miraculously appears to Hagar and Ishmael at that time how it is said in the Nobel Qur'an? There is way we to find the exact age of this well! And then what you gonna say ?
The Miracle of Zamzam Well

According to Arab historians, the Zamzam Well, except for a few periods when it became dry or was buried under sand, has been in use for around 4000 years. The well marks the site of a spring that, miraculously , had issued forth from a barren and desolate wadi (non perennial stream) where the Prophet Ibrahim (Peace be upon him-pbuh), under Allah's command, had left his wife Hajar and their infant son Ismail (pbuh). In her desperate search for water, Hajar ran seven times back and forth in the scorching heat between the two hills of Safa and Marwa to provide water for Ismail (pbuh), who was dying of thirst. Allah, in His mercy, sent the Angel Gabriel, who scraped the ground, causing the spring to appear. On finding the spring, and fearing that it might run out of water, Hajar enclosed it in sand and stones. The name Zamzam originates from the phrase Zomë Zomë, meaning 'stop flowing', a command repeated by Hajar during her attempt to contain the spring water. The area around the spring, which was later converted to a well, became a resting place for caravans, and eventually grew into the trading city of Makkah, birthplace of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) later returned to rebuild the first Bait-ul-Allah (House of Allah), originally build by Adam (pbuh). Because of its square shape, it is called The Ka'ba. It is the holiest Muslim shrine. The Ka'ba now stands in the center of the Holy Mosque, also called Al-Haram. The Zamzam well is located within the Holy Mosque at about 20 m east of the Ka'ba.

All able-bodied Muslims with sufficient financial means are obliged to make the pilgrimage to Makkah, known as the Hajj, at least once in lifetime. During the Hajj, pilgrims perform a number of rituals in the Al-Haram and outside Makkah at Muna, Arafat, and Muzdalifa. One of the rituals known as the Umrah, includes Tawaf (seven times circling) of Ka'ba and Sai between the hills of Safa and Marwa, which is to re-enact Hajar's search for water Umrah can be performed at any time of the year. Millions of Umrah pilgrims visit Makkah throughout the year, the peak season being the month of Ramadan. Muslims drink Zamzam water during their visit and also carry it back home.

[Peter]

11-7

I answered to the well of Zamzam here with lots of supporting links.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2839.60

"According to Arab historians, the Zamzam Well, except for a few periods when it became dry or was buried under sand, has been in use for around 4000 years."

The article calls them "historians", but what reference did they use, to know what went on 4000 years ago. If you cannot answer that question, all your Islamic so-called "tradition" - 7th to 10th century fiction - goes right out the window.

But you didn't answer my PM. Let me ask again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael#Ishmael_in_Muslim_literature

"In Islamic tradition, Abraham took Hagar and Ishmael to the desert himself, where he left them and returned to his household."

So according to "Muslim literature" Abraham left his wife Sarah and son Isaac at their home in Hebron, and wandered 1200 kilometers across harsh barren desert to Mecca with Sarah's bondwoman Hagar and her son Ishmael, and then turned around and wandered back across the 1200 kilometers of harsh barren desert back to Hebron.
Is that about the size of it?


"In the desert, the young Ishmael cried with thirst.[23] His mother searched for water, which resulted in her running seven times between the Safa and Marwah hills, before God helped them by making spring water gush forth from the Zamzam well, so both mother and son could rejuvenate themselves."

So then Ishmael didn't get thirsty, until after Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar had wandered across 1200 kilometers of harsh Arabian desert, and arrived in Mecca?

Does that make sense to you?

If you cannot provide sensible answers to those two points, your false prophets STAND-ALONE phony 23 year 7th century record goes up in smoke, yielding to the sound RECORD of Scripture, that makes perfect historical and geographical sense, and is confirmed by archaeological EVIDENCE.

sent with ISHMAEL, HAGAR, PARAN & MECCA (+pics)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh5E--IlCKk

[Peter]

11-7

np33 didn't respond to the PM on those 2 occasions it was sent to him for obvious reasons. The whole story of Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael in 8th to 10th century Muhammadan "tradition" is because that pure fiction is absolutely preposterous.

But a little while later np, instead, put in beholderguard's channel comments:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
np33123 (3 hours ago)
PeteWaldo stop send me your garbage to my YouTube email debate me here on this channel!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To which I replied by PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wrote on beholderguard's channel

[[[[np33123 (3 hours ago)
Spam
PeteWaldo stop send me your garbage to my YouTube email debate me here on this channel! ]]]]

But I already told you that beholderguard removed my post and banned me, because spiritual darkness can't stand truth. He didn't want people in those comments to see the thread that he started in the forum that I pasted the link to because he's a coward.

If you have been watching, he has been removing other peoples work, and banning them too. Why would you make a request of anybody to have their time wasted like that?

His behavior is so erratic it's my guess he's a drunk.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Followed by:

This was the post I put in beholderguard's channel that he removed followed by their two comments, and a little later on your comment. How didn't you know I was banned when you were partly responsible?

Please read my comment, and tell me why it deserved to be removed, and if it was a legitimate reason for banning me.

PeteWaldo

Hi BeholderGuard and thank you for joining the Islam-Christian Forum! I look forward to being able to engage in thoughtful and well organized chats there, rather than these rapidly revolving 500 character channel comment bits and pieces. I started a thread with some suggestions for our discussions. I look forward to chatting with you there!
PeteWaldo
Simply copy and paste the following URL, then remove the spaces from after the two dots, and press your enter key.
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=2830.0
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But later on it was removed and greeted with the following comments


friendofutube2009

Warning to all brothers:

Me and brother np33123 have debated with this pagan PeteWaldo long time back. He's not one person, worse his posts are written by some kind of robot or machine. He doesn't reply point-by-point. No amount of truth can make this guy (actually a team of hasbarat) to wake up. You're wasting your time if you discuss with him. LAST WARNING: never join his forum - it could be laden with self-exploding malaware and other infectious scripts designed to take over your computer and steal whatever private files you have. The least he can do is immobilize your PC with rootkits, viruses, etc.

Am requesting brother BeholderGuard to block this LIAR ASAP...
_______________________

BeholderGuard

Besm Ellah El Rahman El Raheem
RE: friendofutube2009
Done already akhi :)
Ignored, deleted, and blocked
I will unjoin that forum now
Alhamdoulellah, I used security software which is almost impossible to breach
Nd of course I used different passwords for each site separately :)
________________________

Then later on you chimed in:

np33123 (8 hours ago)

@ friendofutube2009 Wa Alaikumis Salaam Akhi . Pagan PeteWaldo is a real Satanist Azazil/Iblis is talking from his mouth , he is making tricky explanations of the corrupted Bible and he can not see how ridiculous he is .
____________________________

All I see in all 3 comments, to my perfectly friendly and civil post, is sheer terror of truth.