THE HAJJ & UMRA - Al-Safa & Al-Marwah - Part 2

[Peter]

[Disappeared and reconstructed through database]

Al-Safa and Al-Marwah

The ritual of running between Safa and Marwa is called the "Sa'ee". As mentioned earlier Muslims are taught that this ritual has to do with Hagar and Ishmael. Besides the historical and geographical absurdity of that view, the pre-Islamic Umra was a ritual of the Arabian Jinn religion.''

In Islam Jinn are recognized as devils or demons. The idols that were placed on the two stones Safa and Marwa were two statues of Asaf who was a male and Naelah who was female. They were the most venerated priests of the Arabian Jinn religion. (more) Arabian mythology claims they committed fornication together inside the Kaabah and the gods transformed them into stone statues. Though the idols were removed by Islam, to this day Muslims still run between Safa and Marwa seven times, just as the pagans did. (more)

Safa and Marwa are two hills close to where Abdel Mutaleb, the grandfather of Mohammed, dug the well of Zamzam and erected the statues of Asaf and Naelah as the deities of the well. (more) As with so many of Mohammed's acquaintances and family members, his grandfather was very much into the Jinn religion and the occult. (more)''

Marching around Safa and Marwa, was a ritual hated by most of Mohammed’s companions because they well knew that it was a pagan rite from Jahiliyah, or the pre-Islam period. From the Hadith:

Asem told us that he said to Uns bin Malek, a companion of Mohammed, “You were hating to encompass around the Safa and Marwa.” He answered, “Yes, because it was one of the pagan rites of Jahiliyah until Allah gave a verse that the Safa and Marwa are the rites of Allah. If one makes the Hajj to the Kaabah, he must encompass them. The person has no sin when he encompass them." (Sahih al-Bukhari, 2, page 171)

Narrated "Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: 'Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?' He said, 'Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.'" (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)

Even Ibn Abbas, cousin of Mohammed and Islam's most authoritative reporter, admitted that encompassing Safa and Marwa was the custom of the pagan Arabians before Islam. (more)

Perhaps the reason that Mohammed's "Allah gave a verse" continuing this pagan ritual, is because Mohammed wanted to appease the two lazy bandit tribes of Oas and Khazraj that he enlisted in Medina, who were most into the Jinn religion and whom Mohammed had used to attack his own tribe the Quraish, in the service of his "Allah". Their reward as with all the men that followed Mohammed was, of course, four-fifths of the stolen property, wives, and children of the vanquished, as "spoils of war - booty". That's the title of chapter 8 of the Quran that also details Mohammed's one-fifth share. (more)

The Oas and Khazraj began their Umra Hajj by kissing copies of the statues which were placed on the shore opposite Mecca. They were to walk seven times between these two rocks, then return to Mecca to kiss the two statues of Asaf and Naelah.

(link)
Ritual Cleaning or Ablution

Both the Hajj and Umra begin with ritual cleansing, or ablution, and include repetitive prayer. Muslims pray five times a day, and wash before doing so, because Mohammed told them that is what he learned when he took an overnight trip on a flying animal to Jerusalem, heaven, and back to Mecca by morning.

Far more likely, however, is the fact that Mohammed and at least four of his relatives had been deeply involved in the second century occult cult of the Sabians. This cult had so much impact on Mohammed's daily life that some folks referred to Mohammed as "the Sabian", and Mohammed mentions Sabians right along with Christians, in the Quran. No surprise to discover then, that the Sabians, prayed five times a day and performed ablution.

The source of inspiration for ritual cleansing in Islam is discussed on the "Mohammed's Night Journey" page.

Regarding repetitive prayer, in scripture we are instructed

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Illustrating that being with God is about relationship and not ritual.

(link)
The Cutting of Hair

The cutting of the hair was practiced by some Arabian tribes after a pilgrimage to honor their gods. For example they conducted a pilgrimage to the idol of one of their gods - al-akyaser - where they cut their hair mixed it with flour and tossed it in the air. The same celebration was also observed by many pagan Yemeni tribes.  Those same tribes emigrated from Yemen to the area around Medina and Mecca, after the collapse of the dam at Ma'rib in about 150 A.D. Thus cutting hair is still the ritual which ends the Hajj. (more)

Stations of the pre-Islamic Hajj included Arafa, the place where they would stop to worship the sun, and Muzdalifah, where they would stop to worship the moon. Then the Hajj would conclude at Mina, called Muna, the place dedicated to Manat, where they cut their hair and presented their animal sacrifices. This same Hajj was transferred to Islam with the same rituals including the ritual of cutting the hair at Manat. (more)

(link)
Animal Sacrifice

Ibn Hisham, who edited the oldest book on the life of Mohammed, says the statues of Asaf and Naelah were worshipped at the well of Zamzam including the sacrifice of animals to the statues there. This suggests that the well of Zamzam was dedicated, to the worship of the two priests of the Jinn represented by the statues, by Mohammed's grandfather Abdel Mutaleb. This can be concluded first because Abdel Mutaleb dug the well of Zamzam. Second because he worshipped the statues of the two Jinn priests. Indeed Abdel was so consumed by occult worship that he wanted to sacrifice one of his own sons to the two statues at Zamzam. That son was Abdullah, who became the father of Mohammed. When Abdel was close to killing Abdullah with his knife, Abdel's brother stepped in and rescued the boy. (more)

(link)
The Well of Zamzam

Arabians would dig a well for each temple to which they went to sacrifice to the gods they worshipped to build Hajj around the statues of the gods. Among the ceremonies would be drinking water from the well which was dedicated to the deity.

After Abdel Mutaleb dug the well of Zamzam near Safa and Marwa visiting the well and drinking of its water became part of the small Hajj or Umra to honor the deities for which the Hajj was called in the first place, namely the devoted servants of the jinn, Asaf and Naelah. (more)
(link)
   

[Peter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfWy5KaFvbU

Chat, with links completed in the forum.

ayamen1 Block User
Why don't you talk about your faith and your bible to convert people instead of attacking their believes with lies based evidance .
talk about the origin of the trinity and son of God concept from pagon Roman and Greek
Talk about Mithera , Horris and simmilarties to Jesus as son of God and God man .
Talk about your Father in christianity and how he was contradict Jesus .

IslamExplored @ayamen1
I believe that for some Muslims it would seem that they first need to overcome Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 7th century cult, before they can begin to see the love of the one true God as expressed through His Word.
So tell me. How did Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wander across a thousand miles of Arabian desert from Israel to Mecca, most of a thousand years before the first caravan route was established along the Red Sea.
I see you logged into the forum. Why are you wasting your time here?

IslamExplored @ayamen1
Another reason I talk about Islam is because a bunch of liars post false videos on YouTube regarding Paran and Mecca and someone has to set their ridiculous notions to rest.
The reason you revert back to this 500 character YouTube waste of time is because you can't stand the light of truth that you were confronted with in the forum.
Why don't you answer to the posts that answered your thread?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1293.0
13 hours ago


ayamen1 Block User
Like dr Amari and his followers . They have lies based evidance .
Ok if paran is not Mecca .
So who was the holy one from paran , who would come with 10000 saints ?
Where is the great nation of Ishmael who will keep God covenet and law .
9 hours ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
My friend, no matter how hard you wish it to be otherwise, Mecca is 1200 kilometers from Israel. If you can't explain how Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandered across 1000 km of Arabian desert, most of a millennium before the first caravan route was made along the Red Sea, then Mohammed's ridiculous 7th century nonsense goes straight into the crapper.
This isn't a matter of opinion, or interpretation, but a GEOGRAPHICAL MATTER OF FACT.
How did they wander across 1000 km of unknown desert
5 hours ago

IslamExplored
If you cannot answer the question as to how Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandered across 1000 kilometers of desert, before anybody else had, then you have no choice but to realize that when you run between Al-Safa and Al-Marwa you are doing nothing more than repeating the same ceremony that the jinn worshiping pagans did.
Just as Mohammed's boys realized.
"You were hating to encompass around the Safa and Marwa. He answered, Yes, because it was one of the pagan rites of Jahiliyah..."
3 hours ago

ayamen1 Block User @ayamen1
See friend , don't talk like athiest .
I will ask you the same question how abrahim was going to sacrifice his son ?
Can you beleive that , how father can do that .
But Abrahim was a Muslim who submits to God and follow his commandment .
2 hours ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
I don't see a question there, other than for me to answer yes I can believe it, because here's the passage regarding how God tempted Abraham.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=22&t=KJV#1 2 hours ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
Why you didn't answer my question ?
Because you don't know the answer !!!?
2 hours ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
My friend, you are the one who ran away from the forum after posting a single thread, because you aren't looking for answers. Though it was answered in detail you ran away like a little girl.
You have to start with primary elements before going on with false presumptions of scripture.
If you can't explain how Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandered across a thousand kilometers of Arabian desert, most of a millennium before anybody else, then nothing can rescue your false prophet.
2 hours ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
I didn't run from your fourm . It is very boring and most of staf posted by you . I recommand all Muslim not to waste their time in it .
2 hours ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
Admit it. You're a coward who cannot defend what he believes. That's why you like the confusion of 500 character worthlessness of YouTube bits and pieces, rather than a thoughtful conversation that we can remain engaged in over time.
So what if I posted most of the stuff? If you believe some of it to be untrue why don't you challenge it?
Because you can't.
Typical Muslim. Try to divert attention from the message, and onto the messenger.
1 hour ago


ayamen1 Block User @ayamen1
What is your proof friend and evidance . Don't say your bible because I beleive your bible is corrupted .
2 hours ago

ayamen1 Block User @ayamen1
In my vidoes I am using historical proofs and maps while you are using emotions and dreams . Like in my vido I showed maps from the west was hand drawn in 1600s and 1700s by French man and german man showing paran mountain near the Maddina .
2 hours ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
If your foolish videos could stand the light of truth, you wouldn't have had to erase the comments I put on them. I made a record of those comments before you removed them:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1296.msg4964#msg4964
Emotions and dreams? What are you saying? That a map that was penned in the 1600s moves Mecca closer to Israel and you would rather follow that?
You have yet to explain HOW Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandered from Israel to Mecca. That's a DOSE OF REALITY!
2 hours ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
You mean your vidoes .
You follow the lies of your bible .
Where is paran according to your bible ?
It is unkown and confusing . Why they are replacing paran with Maon .
Please answer these question  
2 hours ago

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
Same I beleive that because Allah almighty revealed that to Muhamed .
2 hours ago

ayamen1 Block User @ayamen1
The answer yes Abrahim and his wife Hajer and his son Ishmael travelled to Macca . And Abrahim left them in Mecca . You will find this story of Zamzam and her son who was crying in your bible and God said I will rise from you a great nation . If you reject this story of hajer in your bible you reject your bible .
2 hours ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
First, Hagar was not Abraham's wife, but rather Abraham's wife Sarah's, handmaiden. Abraham threw them out at Sarah's request, confirmed by God, thereby disowning Ishmael. When they first got turned out, they wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
Second you say Abraham left Hagar and Ishmael in Mecca, by Zamzam.
EXPLAIN HOW ABRAHAM, HAGAR AND ISHMAEL WANDERED ACROSS THE THOUSAND KILOMETERS OF ARABIAN DESERT TO GET THERE, MOST OF A MILLENNIUM BEFORE ANY ROUTE WAS ESTABLISHED
1 hour ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
Only to correct you friend , Paul Christianity is the one who rejects the law of Moses and the path of all the prophets . Paul pagon cult is a copy of Roman and Greek pagon releigion . You are a follower of Paul not the prophet Jesus . I will ask you again who is the holy one from paran with 10000 saints in history ?

IslamExplored @ayamen1
Look at the :56 second mark in your own video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxD_UpGHd1Q
It puts Paran in the Sinai, just as the verse you reference seems to.
Deu 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them.
Are you suggesting they traveled across the same 1000 kilometers of desert as your ridiculous suggestion for Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael?
1 hour ago

IslamExplored
You seem to be unable to grasp, that even the location of Mt. Sinai that your videos claim is the correct location (and as illustrated in the map in the video above), at Jabal Al-Lawz, is still A THOUSAND HARSH DESERT KILOMETERS AWAY FROM MECCA.
DO YOU HAVE THE MENTAL CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT?
1 hour ago

IslamExplored
Pardon me. Not in this video but my map in the Ishmael, Hagar, Paran & Mecca video, places Mt. Sinai in the same location as your Mt. Sinai video does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_fX_kuVER4
45 minutes ago

IslamExplored
Genesis 20:21 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.
How did Hagar get Ishmael a wife out of Egypt? Wander back A THOUSAND KILOMETERS across harsh Arabian desert to Egypt, and then wander back A THOUSAND KILOMETERS of harsh Arabian desert to Mecca?
1 second ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
This is a corruption in your bible . According to our traditions he married two wives both of them from jorhom Arab tribe from yamen .

IslamExplored @ayamen1
But I have proven that all of your repackaged demon and moon god worship, so-called "traditions", are a load of crap because Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael could not have possibly wandered across a thousand kilometers of harsh, barren, unexplored, untraveled, desert wasteland in order to arrive in one of the harshest environments that even Arabia has to offer.
The whole notion is utterly preposterous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_fX_kuVER4
12 minutes ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
But what about mount Paran ??
I have old historical maps done by western people Christians like you .

IslamExplored @ayamen1
Why are you rerunning this same nonsense? Do you believe your "old maps" are going to move Mt. Sinai or Paran any closer than A THOUSAND KILOMETERS from Mecca?
Don't be ridiculous.
I am going to copy and paste this into the forum and close this video so my time isn't squandered by your refusing to see the answer that I already provided.
Quit being such a coward and join me there.
6 minutes ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
You looks confidant petewaldo ,
exodus was in Saidia Arabia , paran south of mount Sinai , where is Mecca ?
As they had this recent discovery , of jabal al lawz , who was to imagine that this mount in Saudia Arabia not Sinai Egypt?
Moses and his people where in Teeh / lost in the desert for forty years .
Where did they go ? To the wildness of paran .
Where king David went after death of Samuel , to paran where there is beca valley .
41 minutes ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
I AM confident because I rest on the Word of God, not some 7th century illiterate, pillaging, plundering, prisoner raping, murdering reprobate Mohammed.
I JUST ANSWERED THIS TOO - jabal al lawz IS A THOUSAND KILOMETERS FROM MECCA.

IslamExplored
The valley of Baca was a stop on the pilgrimage to ZION - JERUSALEM - THE TRUE HOLY LAND.
Psalms 84:6 [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] IN ZION appeareth before God.
Zion is mentioned 153 times in God's Word because it is the name of the easternmost hill of ancient Jerusalem.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1066.0
27 seconds ago

[Peter]

IslamExplored
Asked for weeks, I finally got an answer by PM.
"If god said that, so it happened. This is islam."
So the answer as to why Muslims reject the historically, archaeologically, and geographically supportable account regarding Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael in the Word of God - the answer as to how they instead accomplished Mohammed's unhistorical, archaeologically unsupportable, and geographically preposterously absurd account - was finally offered.
Because Mohammed said it was so, then it is so.
23 hours ago


ayamen1 Block User @ayamen1
Arabs were on the religion of abrahim , but through the time they inserted idoel I'm the Kaaba . Like Catholic today . They worshipped thes idoel to make them closer to the God of Abrahim . Until God sent the prophet Muhamed and destroyed these idoles . These rituals was made by Abrahim . 3 days ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1 But Mohammed did not destroy the pagan Arabian moon god idol that you still bow to 5 times a day and travel to and march around 7 times while kissing it or pointing to it.
6 seconds ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
The answer they can travel . It will take them 3 to 4 days travelling . Allah commanded abrahim and he left Hajer and her? son in valley of Mecca . Then she asked him why you are leaving us here , did your God commanded you , he said yes . Then she agreed as God commanded him that . She run to serch for water between safa and marwa 7 times , then God sent angel and they had water of Zamzam which is in your bible . Again rejected as you reject your bible .
3 days ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
In the flurry of your spamming posts in here in order to drown out truth, I missed this.
"The answer they can travel. It will take them 3 to 4 days travelling . Allah commanded abrahim and he left Hajer and her son in valley of Mecca ."
So 900 years before the first caravan route was established along the Red Sea, Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandered across 1200 kilometers of unexplored, untraveled, and unknown desert, from Hebron to Mecca, in "3 to 4 days travelling. Well done!
22 hours ago


ayamen1 Block User @ayamen1
You are a coward and you lost this debate .
Again , you beleive that the bible is words of God !
Ok who was that holy man from paran with 10000 saints From history ?
3 days ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
Before you engage in preposterous notions re Mohammed in Deuteronomy 33 you not only need to look at the location of Paran, but we can also disqualify him right out of the gate as any kind of "holy man", since he was an unrepentant pillaging, plundering, murdering, child doing, prisoner raping, stepson's only wife stealing, sex slave prostituting, concubine fornicating, lying, cheating, blood drenched, imperialistic, conquering, terrorist, thief.
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=336.0 22 hours ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
This a historical map which is a proof .
You don't have a proof , only emotions and dreams .
3 days ago

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
Why they can not ?
Do you know more than your god ?
Or the evil sprit came to you like Paul from your demon God - Satan Iblis ( your Lord ) you are a worshipper of a man calling him God and son of God ,
you worship an angel calling him God . Like pagon roman .
Jesus is the Sun God like Mithera of Persia .
3 days ago

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
The corrupted bible claimed that but Ishmael was not dishounered .
Why God said I will rise from him a great nation twice ?
Please answer !!!!!!
The Jews corrupted your bible to make Isaac superior than Ishmael .
The sacrificed son was Ishmael not Isaac .

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
Is people still praise god their and do pilgramage ?
And where is this well in your bible .?
Zion is a late addition and corruption in the bible .
3 days ago

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
Beca is an old name of maca and mentiened in the Quran .
Where is beca valley now ? Is people still do pilgramage and praise god there ,
petewaldo wake up .
3 days ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
Many of God's people, just as those referenced in the book of Psalms, still go on pilgrimage today, to THE Holy Land.
Try a Yahoo search like - pilgrimage to the holy land.
They DO NOT go on pilgrimage to Mecca to engage in the rituals of Mohammed's repackaged jinn devil and Arabian moon god worship and veneration of the black stone that was their moon god idol.
22 hours ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
The words of God says there is a holy man from mount of paran with 10000 saints , who is that man ?
Please answer .
3 days ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
Deuteronomy 33 is a chapter about the blessings of Moses and the "heads of the people [and] the tribes of Israel" listed.
Regarding any specific 10000, what does the passage say?
Deu 33:17 His glory [is like] the firstling of his bullock, and his horns [are like] the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they [are] the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they [are] the thousands of Manasseh.
Are Mohammedans the tribe of Ephraim now?
21 hours ago


IslamExplored
By the way. Since you sent me a personal message, and then blocked me so you didn't have to face a truthful reply, I responded to it and pasted it into the Forum at this link. Simply copy and paste the link and remove the spaces from after the dots.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1314.022 hours ago

[Peter]

IslamExplored
Now I am still waiting my answer. Do you really believe Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandered across a thousand kilometers of unknown desert, 900 years before the first caravan route was established along the Red Sea, in "3 or 4 days" as you suggested?
Surely even you can see how preposterous that suggesting is. So how? did they wander from Hebron to Mecca?
31 minutes ago

IslamExplored
By the way, did you see that after you sent me the PM, and then blocked me so that you could run and hide from the truth, and so that I couldn't answer to your false accusations, I still provided you with answers in the forum at this link.
Simply copy and paste the link and remove? the spaces from after the dots.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1314.0
27 minutes ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
why you don't tell the truth coward ? say why i blocked you ?
you sent me PM insulting the prophet and muslims and threating me to convert to your pagon cult of Paul . you said to me why you muslims kill other people , Rape ,steal etc like your ........
I explained to you many times it is forbidden in the quran , but you don't read my massages and replay and repeat the same thing again and again . and saying Ibn ishaq said .... .
1 hour ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
You blocked me just like you said you would in the PM after which you blocked me. You wrote
[[[I will block you becuse you are a Satan .]]]
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1314.0
You not only blocked me, but you also erased the comments I left on your videos, and failed to post my video reply on your foolish Paran video, because it's truth demonstrated how preposterous your Paran video is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_fX_kuVER4
I'll post it as a video response again on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxcUJqcR1Uo
4 minutes ago

[Peter]

IslamExplored
Look what a hopeless jumble these questions and answers become here. I know Islam thrives on mayhem and confusion, but don't you find this frustrating anyway?
I answered your last question first, because that is the one that came to my mailbox first. Why don't you move to the forum with me where we can organize our conversation and I can give proper attention to the answers?
7 minutes ago


ayamen1 Block User @PeteWaldo
you are a liar , I said to you they can travel as he travelled from Iraq and to palastine and to egypt . so what is the problem . it can take him 3 to 4 days .
but you don't read my replay .
2 hours ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
What lie? It seems to me that you ARE saying that they DID travel, the 1000 kilometers from Israel to Mecca in 3 to 4 days, across (at that time) untraveled and unknown Arabian desert, 900 years before the first caravan route was established.
And you don't see the problem with that?
5 seconds ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
ok coward answer this question
How old was Ishmael when he was abandoned by Abraham? 13 as in 17:25 and 21:5 and 8
or infant as in 21:14,15,18
why your holy book full of contadictions
remove it from the comments coward .
1 hour ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
I already answered that, and then later copy and pasted it into the forum
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1256.0
5 seconds ago


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
there is nothing called moon God . and paull didn't destroy the sun God of mithera and make it Jesus . that's why the blood and bread came from mitheraism.
1 hour ago

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
Who named Beersheba?according to your bible
Abraham in 21:31 or isaac in genesis 26:33
another contradiction
1 hour ago

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
 in Genesis 21:32They returned to the land of the Philistines." But the Philistines didn't arrive in the region of Canaan until around 1200 BCE -- 800 years after Abraham's supposed migration from Ur. another mistake in your bible.


ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
I am still waiting the answer , where is the great nation of ishmael , who is the holy man from Paran as prophet Moses and other prophtets said about him in the bible ? this is day number 4 .
1 hour ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
The Bible says that the 12 tribes from Ishmael's sons inhabited the upper Sinai peninsula and the wilderness of Paran to the north of Mt. Sinai.
Their being a "great nation" is a fulfilled prophecy because the Old Testament accounts to their growing to great numbers.
But they controlled the intersection of 3 trade routes that Arabs from northern Arabia moved in on. The bible is silent on what happened to the because they were either exiled into the fertile crescent or were absorbed.
33 minutes ago

[Peter]

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
why you don't tell the truth coward say why i blocked you ?
you sent me PM insulting the prophet .........

Always the Muslim run-away fall-back. After having blasphemed the Word of God and the prophets therein, and Jesus Christ - the Son of God - and his shed blood at length, they then turn around and cry like babies about their "prophet" Mohammed being "insulted", when what we do is point out how Mohammed is revealed through their own books.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1268.0

..... and muslims and threating me to convert to your pagon cult of Paul .

Does anyone understand the following exchange as "threating" the poor fellow "to convert" to Christianity?
It could be constructive that he is beginning to perceive a threat after all the scripture I have shown him, but it isn't me that poses that threat.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.    

Could that be Jesus Christ that is knocking on his heart?

He is always welcome to continue to participate in this forum and show us, if the correspondences I am copy and pasting in here is not the one he is criticizing, but these are the last three before he blocked me.

[[[[ Cross worshipper leave me alone .
Let you evil sprit and demon god of Paul .....]]]]

What about Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

[[[[[...... protect you in the day of Judgement .]]]]

It is the shed blood and saving grace of Jesus Christ that saves me from sin.
You're stuck believing that throwing stones, running between safa and marwah as the pagans did, and cutting your hair, provides remission of sin. That's so sad.

[[[[We follow the law of god and his commands .]]]]

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. You follow the 613 laws of the Mitzvah? No. You follow Mohammed, no matter how little sense it makes, as you already clearly showed.

[[[But you follow a course which is evil ,.....]]]]]

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

That could only look evil to an antichrist, that follows the father of lies, couldn't it.

[[[[[....... you follow your desires and Satan .]]]]

I follow the Prince of Peace.

[[[[[Your bible is corrupted.]]]]

What you mean is it doesn't agree with Mohammed's recitations.

[[[[ Your releigion is corrupted .]]]

It is a cinch that yours remains just as your reprobate, murdering, prisoner raping, sex slave pimping leader, Mohammed, designed it.

[[[[Enjoy hell fire with your father and man God and the evil sprit of Paul . ]]]]

Paul and ALL of the prophets and witnesses in the 1600 year record of God to mankind that His people have followed for 3500 years.

[[[[May God curse you more and more .
Amen]]]]

That's funny. You ask your "Allah" to curse innocent people just the way Mohammed did. Doesn't it occur to you that is just what those that practice Voodoo do? Is it any surprise that your rituals are repackaged jinn worship?
Doesn't that tell you something?
_____________________________

Why do you suppose it is that I was happy to post my Baca video on your Baca video, but you are afraid to do the same, or to approve mine?
For the same reason you removed my comment from yours, and your unsupported false accusation of my lying, is found out to be a lie told by you.
God is about TRUTH, my friend.
_________________

Are you a Muslim because you hope that someday you will be able to murder men and boys, and steal their property, and sexually enslave their wives and children the way that your false prophet Mohammed and his followers did?

you said to me why you muslims kill other people , Rape ,steal etc like your ........
I explained to you many times it is forbidden in the quran , but you don't read my massages and replay and repeat the same thing again and again . and saying Ibn ishaq said .... .
2 hours ago

But anybody that knows anything about the Quran, or the life of Mohammed, knows this is nothing more than taqiyyah or lying in the way of Allah, or wishful thinking, or ignorance of Islam. And Ibn Ishaq is one of the earliest, and thus more reliable reporters of Mohammed's life, from which many other Islamic "tradition" creators got their information. Ishaq created Mohammedan history, Mohammed's genealogy, and much more, which Muslims still believe today.

Typical tacticts too. Blocking me, and then unblocking me so he could say I was lying for claiming he blocked me, then followed by putting the block back on. He blocked me again, after I was able to PM him my reply to his PM pasted above, during that little open window.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1314.0

[Peter]

ayamen1 Block User @IslamExplored
why you don't tell the truth coward ? say why i blocked you ?
you sent me PM insulting the prophet and muslims and threating me to convert to your pagon cult of Paul . you said to me why you muslims kill other people , Rape ,steal etc like your ........
I explained to you many times it is forbidden in the quran , but you don't read my massages and replay and repeat the same thing again and again . and saying Ibn ishaq said .... .
1 day ago

IslamExplored @ayamen1
Muslims blaspheme the Word of God, the prophets, apostles, and the blood of Jesus Christ - the Son of God - through Mohammed's lies.
Then you cry like babies "you're insulting my prophet" when someone characterizes THE false prophet Mohammed AS HE IS REVEALED THROUGH YOUR OWN BOOKS, as a murdering, thieving, prisoner raping reprobate.
You might have thought you could get away with lying about our PMs but I pasted them here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1282.msg5157#msg5157
7 seconds ago

[Peter]

nali as "ME" Pete as "YOU"

YOU:
Pagan Arabian tradition also holds that Asaf and Naelah, the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn religion committed fornication inside the Kaaba, so "Allah" (their moon god) turned them into stone.
Two stone idols representing Asaf and Naelah were placed on al-safa and al-marwah, and after Mohammed's grandfather dug the well of Zamzam he dedicated it to them. So sincere was his worship to the jinn that he nearly sacrificed Mohammed's father to the idols.
Mohammedans, unto this day, still run back and forth between the two hills 7 times, just as the pagan Arabian jinn worshipers did. Indeed pagans and Muslims performed the ceremony shoulder to shoulder. What basic change was made to this ritual besides removal of the idols from al-safa and al-marwah?


ME:
there is not a single Hadith Literature that states this is why we run back and forth from the two hills, according to the ISLAMIC teaching, these are the hills that Haggar ran between in search for water for the baby Ishmile. She ran back and forth 7 times before she came to where the water sprouted at the feet of the baby. over time the pagans adopted the ritual and erected the idols you speak of, which were then removed and the ritural purified to what it should be as it is today.


it goes back to the example i pointed out to you but you are not even willing to see how pagans have changed the religion of god and because god clears away these pagan attributes to his religion does not make it a religion that was pagan derived. because in fact ALL mankind and religion comes from Adam, as such any new religion is a deviation and may contain the truth in it along with the pagan attributes, just as i believe is the case with your religion, where paganism of worshiping the created was added to the religion of god.

[Peter]

[disappeared and reconstructed from data base]

'nali as "ME" Pete as "YOU"

YOU:
Pagan Arabian tradition also holds that Asaf and Naelah, the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn religion committed fornication inside the Kaaba, so "Allah" (their moon god) turned them into stone.
Two stone idols representing Asaf and Naelah were placed on al-safa and al-marwah, and after Mohammed's grandfather dug the well of Zamzam he dedicated it to them. So sincere was his worship to the jinn that he nearly sacrificed Mohammed's father to the idols.
Mohammedans, unto this day, still run back and forth between the two hills 7 times, just as the pagan Arabian jinn worshipers did. Indeed pagans and Muslims performed the ceremony shoulder to shoulder. What basic change was made to this ritual besides removal of the idols from al-safa and al-marwah?

ME:
there is not a single Hadith Literature that states this is why we run back and forth from the two hills, ......

The hadith records that even Mohammed's closest followers hated doing this ritual because they knew it was pagan.

Asem told us that he said to Uns bin Malek, a companion of Mohammed, “You were hating to encompass around the Safa and Marwa.” He answered, “Yes, because it was one of the pagan rites of Jahiliyah until Allah gave a verse that the Safa and Marwa are the rites of Allah. If one makes the Hajj to the Kaabah, he must encompass them. The person has no sin when he encompass them. (Sahih al-Bukhari, 2, page 171)

Please explain to us what this pagan ritual was about before Mohammed was ever born.
Who was responsible for establishing the ritual as the Quraish practiced it.
What's the difference in the way this ritual is performed today and the way the pagans practiced it, besides the two stone idols of most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn-demon religion, Asaf and Naelah, have been removed?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1209.0

....... according to the ISLAMIC teaching, ........

"ISLAMIC teachings" are a bunch of 7th and 8th century created, self-contradicting, unsupportable, Arabian nonsense, that Muslims have to be brainwashed, and brainwash themselves, to believe. That's why Muslims have to reject the actual pre-4th century historical record, and archaeology, as well as simple geography, until theirs mirror the minds of 7th century desert dwelling illiterates.

According to Islamic history Mohammed's grandfather dug the well of Zamzam and dedicated it to Asaf and Naelah and nearly sacrificed his son - who eventually became Mohammed's father - to these two stone idols.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1209.0

........ these are the hills that Haggar ran between in search for water for the baby Ishmile.

My friend, simply repeating this 7th century created historical fiction will never make it come true. Hagar was never within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually built in the 4th century AD. Nor were Abraham or Ishmael.
Archaeological evidence testifies to where Abraham traveled.
Please present the archaeological evidence that suggests he was ever in Mecca.
Please reply on that thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1277.0

And after all of your empty words you have yet to bring any historical or geographical EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca ever existed before about the 4th century AD - much less nearly 1,500 years earlier. Please reply to this on that thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1276.0

She ran back and forth 7 times before she came to where the water sprouted at the feet of the baby.

Pure 7th and 8th century created history fictional poppycock.

over time the pagans adopted the ritual and erected the idols you speak of, which were then removed and the ritural purified to what it should be as it is today.

Utterly ridiculous suggestion.

it goes back to the example i pointed out to you ......

I'm sorry but there is no example that you pointed out, that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD.

....... but you are not even willing to see how pagans have changed the religion of god .......

Because they didn't. Yahweh's revelation to mankind through His 1600 year record through all of the prophets and witnesses remains intact.
However pagans created all of the Islamic rituals that Mohammed thinly repackaged, and included in his stand-alone 7th century religion, in an effort to be more inclusive of the pagans.

....... and because god clears away these pagan attributes to his religion does not make it a religion that was pagan derived.

Then why is it that you cannot present any historical record that predates the 4th century, or archaeological evidence, that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, or it's kaaba before the early 5th century AD when pagan immigrants from Yemen built it for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship?

because in fact ALL mankind and religion comes from Adam, .......

An utterly ridiculous suggestion regarding the first fallen man.

...... as such any new religion is a deviation and may contain the truth in it along with the pagan attributes, ......

You mean you wish to believe you can justify Mohammed's religion this way, but it is simply repackaged Arabian paganism. The epicenter of which has and will continue to be located 1200 kilometers from THE Holy Land, and never existed before the Christian era.

........ just as i believe is the case with your religion, where paganism of worshiping the created was added to the religion of god.

You wish to believe that, because you crate a straw god and straw "anti-Mohammed's" and then pretend they are who God's people have followed for 3500 years through His 1600 year record.
   

[Peter]

I was musing over videos of this jinn-devil worship ritual again as I sent links to a friend on YouTube. Talk about children of the flesh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyK8_8qeL84
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUA5j6cgMho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXxgGkS6JHs