Author Topic: Indoctrination  (Read 6795 times)

Peter

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Indoctrination
« on: July 05, 2009, 09:02:51 AM »
I'm pretty confident that I won't have been given all the answers, or have been shown the whole truth, before the day that I stand before my Creator in judgment. I just pray that on that day I can rest on having done everything in my power to have sought it out, because Jesus IS THE TRUTH.

The most widely held eschatological traditions in the church today, necessarily preclude that Mohammed could be THE false prophet prophesied in the book of Revelation. With much of the church believing that most of Revelation after chapter three was fulfilled by 70AD, while the vast majority of the rest of the church believes that virtually none of that portion of Revelation will be fulfilled until some 7-year period yet in the future. Thus 7th century Mohammed cannot even be considered as fulfilling that role.

At the same time, the most important fundamental of Islam, held by 1/4 of mankind today, requires denying that Jesus is the Son of God.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Indeed the greatest, and only unpardonable, sin in Islam (shirk) is committed if a Muslim confesses that Jesus is the Son of God.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

A religion whose very basis absolutely requires denial that Jesus even died on the cross:

Surah 4.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them ... for of a surety they killed him not:-

Yet how many individuals in just the three groups described above could imagine even for a moment, that what they have been indoctrinated to believe, could be in substantial error?

The single verse in the Quran above reject ALL of the prophets and apostles of the New Testament and it's whole subject of the new covenant we were given for forgiveness of sin through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
In regard to the two camps described within the church, each must necessarily believe the other to be virtually 100% in error as regards their understanding of the book of Revelation, after chapter three.

At the same time, all Christians and Jews understand that Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled steadily, as the era about which they were written gradually unfolded, as in Daniel's kingdom "beasts" for example. Yet while the church holds this continuous-historic understanding for Old Testament prophecy, during the 20th century it became increasingly unimaginable that New Testament prophecy could have been fulfilled in the very same fashion, necessarily precluding that Mohammed could be THE false prophet, in spite of his leading his people - specifically in the spirit of antichrist - for 1400 years.

Isn't that peculiar?

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

We even have the spectacle of the pope out there kissing the very book that denies the Son of God as it's most important fundamental, and denial that Jesus even died on the cross, let alone to save the world from our sins.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=78.0


John 10:10

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 02:51:21 PM »
There can be no question among Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ that Muhammad was a "type of anti-christ" who clearly denied that Jesus is the great I AM, the resurrected Son of God who was, who is, and will come again as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Any religious leader that seeks to hinder their followers from freely considering who Jesus proclaims Himself to be is also a "type of anti-christ."

But I also believe there is coming a time when a worldly leader will soon come to power as is explained in Dan 11,

36 "Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.
37 "He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all.


I'm not a date setter, but I believe the end of "this age of grace" has less than 25 years left, then the end will come with the return of our Lord.

Blessings

Peter

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 04:43:03 PM »
Thanks so much for popping by my great friend and brother in Christ Jesus, and welcome. For those unfamiliar with John 10:10 he is the moderator of an exMuslim forum, that is almost as quiet as this one, because Muslims simply cannot defend their stand-alone 7th century religion. Please visit him there too: http://formermuslims.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=7
John's chat room springs out of a great exMuslim ministry, for what some call MBBs, or "Muslim born believers", though I think folks are working on changing that unfortunate title, since NOBODY is born a Muslim, but rather we are born either Jew or Gentile.

There can be no question among Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ that Muhammad was a "type of anti-christ"

Mohammed and all Muslims are antichrist. Each is an antichrist.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

 

who clearly denied that Jesus is the great I AM, the resurrected Son of God who was, who is, and will come again as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Any religious leader that seeks to hinder their followers from freely considering who Jesus proclaims Himself to be is also a "type of anti-christ."

Regarding your post, I'm not so sure if calling them antichrists fits within the limits of the term as scripture defines it:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/antichrist.htm
But it gets my blood boiling too when we see men teaching heresy, and in a few cases with knowledge, simply to continue habit/tradition.
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


But I also believe there is coming a time when a worldly leader will soon come to power as is explained in Dan 11,

Here's how Zondervan's describes "little horn" - "Opposing God's people in different guises throughout history is the "little horn" (8, 20-21), until God finally removes its power."

I am in the Walid Shoebat camp on understanding the one you mention as being Mohammed. I believe it is fulfilled prophecy though I am always open to correction.

[edit addition] Wowie. I just popped into my "Halley's Bible Handbook" (copyright 1927) and found the following:
"As to verses 36-45: Antiochus Epiphanes? Or Mohammedan Possession of Holy Land? Or Antichrist? Or all three?"

My bet is evermore on Mohammed.
Regarding any individual prophesied in the end, I see instead ten unseated kings, but ruling as kings, for about an hour (little over 15 days in day-year language of prophecy) with the Islamic beast.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

A good fit for those kings is the division of the world into 10 kingdoms by the Club of Rome, founded in 1968 (the year following the Jew's restoration to their city when we entered what I understand as Daniel's "time of the end"). Their working paper is "The regionalized and adaptive model of the global world system."

In considering the relationship of the 10 kings and Islam, it is important to note that within weeks, or at the outside months, speech will be regulated on a global scale, with Mohammedans being the sole determiners and final arbiters of what is, and is not, allowable speech, regarding Islam.[end edit]


36 "Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god


If you look at Islam that's exactly what Mohammed accomplished. Though the Quran is full of Mohammed's lip service to the contrary, the only thing above Mohammed, for his followers, is his phony god Allah.


and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods;


What could be worse than this:

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!

Surah 4:157  That they said (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear... FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT

The EXACT OPPOSITE of the Word of God for 1400 years.
http://petewaldo.com/islam_is_the_opposite.htm


 and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.

How could a future individual be more "prosperous" than a 1400 year track record of success with another 1.5 billion - 1/4 of mankind in the world as I write? Folks deluded in the specific spirit of antichrist. The only anti-another-religion, religion, by design. Satan's design.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.



37 "He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers

The God of Abraham. The seed of Ishmael follow Mohammed's phony god, instead of the God Ishmael's father.


or for the desire of women,


Even Mohammed's heaven is for men.
http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/mohammedan_heaven.htm
Islam is all about men, at the direct expense of women. Very important point in this prophecy:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm



nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all.


What god do Mohammedans follow but Mohammed's?


I'm not a date setter, but I believe the end of "this age of grace" has less than 25 years left, then the end will come with the return of our Lord.

Blessings


I'm not a date setter either, but I'm going to guess that I see more as being fulfilled than you might, however we might agree that the return of our Lord and Savior may well be imminent. I don't see anything that may not possibly already be fulfilled. Pretty stunning when you consider the state of the church in the OP.

I'm in the Isaac Newton camp on date setting:

"The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton

Every and anyone please feel free to cut the above post up into lots of pieces in reply.

John 10:10

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2009, 12:07:29 PM »
Regarding your post, I'm not so sure if calling them antichrists fits within the limits of the term as scripture defines it:

The antichrist definition I use is explained in 1 John 4,

2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.


Will there be a central antichrist figure that will appear on the world's scene shortly before our Lord returns?  Yes, I believe there will be, according to 2 Thess 2,

8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.


Blessings

Peter

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM »
Regarding your post, I'm not so sure if calling them antichrists fits within the limits of the term as scripture defines it:

The antichrist definition I use is explained in 1 John 4,

2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.


I understand that as a test of, and know a couple great men of God who have used it as a test of, spirits, not persons. Like when interviewing the spirit behind someone talking in tongues, or an abnormal apparition, like those that inspired so many 19th century false prophets.
If that verse referred to a person making a declaration, then all a person would have to do is confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, and that would prove he was of God. You and I know there is not shortage, even in the church, that do, that are not.
A Satanist could obviously make that confession honestly. A liar could make that confession dishonestly. Would that make him of God? Or someone that suffered deception by spirits like Mohammed, or even an alternate personality of someone that suffers MPD.  
When actual spirits are questioned that way, they cannot lie and make that confession, though they can be very tricky when tested.

Ahmed deceived many poor bible-ignorant Muslims with a verse that he made up that was similar to that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMMr4lZx2E

There are 3 other verses that include the term antichrist and this one is a test of persons, like this one:
1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].


Peter

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2009, 02:24:03 PM »
Will there be a central antichrist figure that will appear on the world's scene shortly before our Lord returns?  Yes, I believe there will be, according to 2 Thess 2,

8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.


Blessings

Here is why I prefer the KJV over the 20th century pop-bibles that are based on a corrupt 19th century minority Greek text: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=81.0

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


That wicked is revealed evermore, and in the case of Islam as the second Islamic Jihad gains strength. I believe THE false prophet Mohammed may well be who is referenced in him "whose coming is after the working of Satan".

Perhaps if you provide a few more verses to help me get a clearer picture of your view that this is about some future individual it would help with the big picture.


Where does "that man of sin" sitteth?
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Where is the "temple of God" ever since Jesus rebuilt it in 3 days?
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

So we have to look within the corporate body of Christ for "that man of sin". Todd Bentley offers an instructive example. He claimed visitations by a 9' tall "angel" named Emma.
He had a somewhat Pentecostal styled "healing" ministry that 5 to 15,000 people showed up at every single night for many months.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9Ay4QAtW8

2 Thess 2 considered bit by bit here:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=415.0

Just at the time that I had been contemplating the concept of "that man of sin", our mutual Pentecostal acquaintance invited me to a church, that a friend of his pastors.
Here is a record of that experience: http://www.beholdthebeast.com/man_of_sin_revealed.htm
___________________________

If you were Satan, and you wanted to get involved in church doctrine, would you want to be inspiring the church to take an introspective search into it's own body for "that man of sin", as a result of your participation, or would you more likely want the church to believe "that man of sin" was some nebulous, distant, indistinct component of some future someday that it wouldn't even be around for?

Would you want the church (and there-through Muslims) to see Mohammed as the "him" whose coming is after the working of Satan, or see the "him" as some future boogieman figure as "The" "Antichrist", of some future someday? How about that "The" "Antichrist" was Nero, as if it's over and done with in the first century? Even though none of the verses regarding the term antichrist indicate an individual. (noticing the term "Antichrist" selectively capitalized in my NKJV caused me to set it aside permanently, and stick with my KJV, and Textus Receptus interlinear to help with questions.)

Now consider this in light of the current state of a whole body of Christ that, because of eschatological tradition, necessarily cannot consider Mohammed as THE false prophet of Revelation, as detailed in the OP.

Peter

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2009, 03:00:25 PM »
Copy and pasted from:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/#20th_century_eschatology

With the textual and mathematical Biblical confirmation of Islam's central role in eschatology, if our present chosen end-time understanding doesn't recognize Islam at center stage, are we really to expect that:

Yet a different billion and a half people (1/4 of mankind) will also be specifically antichrist as a foundation of their religion ("shirk" - "God has no Son).

Yet a different billion and a half people will also follow a different, as yet unknown, also antichrist European false prophet.

Yet a different antichrist religion will also "wear out the saints" by murdering Jews and Christians - also by beheading. (Dan 7:25)

Yet a different religion will also change the times - by creating its own calendar. (Daniel 7:25)

Yet a different religion will also seek to change laws - by ignoring the Sabbath as well as imposing Sharia law, in the place of laws of legitimate sovereign nations, throughout the world. (Daniel 7:25)  See "Time, Times and a Half"

Yet a different religion will also build yet another abomination on the Temple Mount that will:
1) Blaspheme God The Most High - for 1300 years with mosaic inscriptions inside and out of "Far be it from God's glory that he  should have a Son".
2) Blaspheme God's name - blaspheme Yahweh by calling their god Allah.
3) Blaspheme God's tabernacle - by building the Dome of the Rock, with blasphemy written all over it, within 300 feet of where the Holy of Holies was kept. Also blaspheme God's true tabernacle which is the body of Christ. (Hebrews 8:2)

Yet a different religion will also be marked by the number 666.

Yet a different religion will establish in a few years, what took Islam almost 1400 years to establish.

Or alternately are we really to believe that the 1.5 billion antichrist Muslims in the world today, will all convert to a different as yet unknown European antichrist religion, operated by some as yet unknown charismatic antichrist European leader, and this in a period of just a few years?  This, even as we watch Europe fall to Islam?

Not surprisingly, as the church slides deeper into apostasy, or the "falling away" as 2 Thessalonians describes it, the Presbyterian church is divesting of Israel and leaders even met with Hezbollah, perhaps the Anglicans may not be far behind.

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2009, 04:55:45 PM »
I rember reading the story of a missionary who shared with an unbelieving Muslim the verses from 1 John 4:2-3.  Mockingly, the Muslim began to say, "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God" several times; then he said, "See there, I told you I could say it, even though I believe otherwise." 

The missionary thought about it for a moment, then called a few of his Muslim friends over, and said to them, "I want you to listen to what your Muslim brother has to say to you about Jesus."  The Muslim fled away from the missionary and the other Muslims in terror.

It's not whether or not anyone can simply say "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God."  It's whether or not someone can say "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God" and really mean it when it really costs you something, like your very life.

As for Muhammad/Islam being The Antichrist, I have yet to see any Muslim operating with power and signs and lying wonders as will this person spoken about in 2 Thess 2.

Blessings

Peter

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2009, 09:01:16 PM »
I rember reading the story of a missionary who shared with an unbelieving Muslim the verses from 1 John 4:2-3.  Mockingly, the Muslim began to say, "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God" several times; then he said, "See there, I told you I could say it, even though I believe otherwise."  

The missionary thought about it for a moment, then called a few of his Muslim friends over, and said to them, "I want you to listen to what your Muslim brother has to say to you about Jesus."  The Muslim fled away from the missionary and the other Muslims in terror.

It's not whether or not anyone can simply say "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God."


1John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The test as described by my ministry partners  is to ask the spirit to confess something like "Are you of the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ?" If the spirit answers in the affirmative then the next request is:
"Confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh".
Jesus IS, was, and will be. The Alpha and Omega.
An unclean spirit will sometimes obfuscate by responding with something like "I am he." Then another query like "Are you of the Holy Spirit that was sent in Jesus name, who was crucified, died, and was buried, and was resurrected on the third day, ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father?"
It went just like that for a pastor who had a woman in her church speaking in tongues, that she was uncomfortable with. On the instruction of one of my ministry partners she performed the preceding, where after a guttural "Nooooooooo" was uttered by the unclean spirit in the woman, as the woman flipped out of her chair and writhed on the floor.
The bible warns us about "familiar spirits" as this woman voluntarily harbored and nurtured.

In around 95 AD, John warned about a church already under satanic attack, in the 2 and 3 chapters of Revelation. There likely isn't much of that difficulty within the mosque, since satan already has those poor folks in his back pocket.

You seem to be ignoring the term "spirit" (pneuma) in the context of the verse. It's about trying spirits.
Pretty difficult to suggest something like "person" can be substituted for "spirit" in that verse:

spirit
New Testament Greek Definition:
4151 pneuma {pnyoo'-mah}
from 4154; TDNT - 6:332,876; n n
AV - Spirit 111, Holy Ghost 89, Spirit (of God) 13,
Spirit (of the Lord) 5, (My) Spirit 3, Spirit (of truth) 3,
Spirit (of Christ) 2, human (spirit) 49, (evil) spirit 47,
spirit (general) 26, spirit 8, (Jesus' own) spirit 6,
(Jesus' own) ghost 2, misc 21; 385
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal,
coeternal with the Father and the Son
1a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his
personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit)
1b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work
and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\)
1c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels,
thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least
all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing,
desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
3c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
3c1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived
as inhabiting the bodies of men
3c2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest
angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul
of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
5a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
5b) breath of nostrils or mouth

 It's whether or not someone can say "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God" and really mean it when it really costs you something, like your very life.

Do you really think a reprobate atheist would have any trouble repeating that?
Like Pat Condell for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8PCecgWKeI
Or any of these folks: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BlasphemyChallenge&view=favorites

A satanist could repeat it in all honesty.


Peter

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2009, 09:29:20 PM »
As for Muhammad/Islam being The Antichrist,


I don't yet know which verse indicates a single entity that could be referred to as "The" "Antichrist", though I was taught there was one, when I was a futurist. I just don't see how scripture supports it. Which verses that use the term indicate an individual?



I have yet to see any Muslim operating with power


Since we are talking about the "him", as being Mohammed, it seems hard to deny that Mohammed had, and still has, power, considering his 1400 year track record of success, with 1/4 of mankind following him today, because they don't love truth.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

That they should believe "a lie".
Surah 4:157  That THEY SAID (in boast), "WE KILLED CHRIST JESUS the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them,... FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

What lie in the whole world, is bigger than that one, from a Christian perspective?



 and signs


signs
New Testament Greek Definition:
4592 semeion {say-mi'-on}
from a presumed derivative of the base of 4591; TDNT - 7:200,1015; n n
AV - sign 50, miracle 23, wonder 3, token 1; 77
1) a sign, mark, token
1a) that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from
others and is known


I am sure you would agree that Mohammed is definitely known by his book the Quran and it definitely distinguishes him from others. Ask any one of his 1.5 billion followers. Ask anybody in the world. Indeed it's hard to imagine a better fit than Mohammed's Quran as the "that" in definition 1a.

A question occurred to me while I was contemplating this:
How many people in the history of the world, outside of the kingdom of God, are today, more widely known and distinguished from others, than is Mohammed for his Quran?

1/4 of mankind follows the false prophet Mohammed through his Quran. Who of the remaining 3/4 is ignorant to Mohammed being known, and distinguished from others, by his Quran?


 and lying wonders


Can you think of a greater lying wonder in the world today than Mohammed's Islam? 1.5 billion people that believe they worship God, when according to God's Word they do the very opposite - for 1400 years!
Look at all of the phony "wonders" that Mohammedans point to. Just one example is seeing the name "Allah" written on fish, in clouds, in trees, etc.
You and I know the silly truth, but they believe these "wonders", because they have no love of truth.
Look at this stuff. They are wonders to them, but nonsense to non-Muslims: http://www.miraclesofislam.com/
That's what makes they lying wonders.


 as will this person spoken about in 2 Thess 2.

Blessings


Is that the only verse from which you get a future, individual, "The" "Antichrist"?

Peter

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Re: Indoctrination
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2009, 07:23:51 AM »
Here's another example of that Greek word semeion (that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from
others and is known) being used.
Only this time it is translated as "miracles" which is really unfortunate as it is so misleading. This verse would have been far easier to see if the KJV translators had used the word "signs", once again, for "semeion":

Revelation 19:20 And the beast [Islamic empire] was taken, and with him [masculine gender assigned to kingdom beasts in Daniel] the false prophet [Mohammed] that wrought miracles [the Quran] before [Greek: "in the presence of"] him, [Islamic empire] with which he [Mohammed] deceived them [Muslims] that had received the mark [666] of the beast, and them [Muslims] that worshipped his image. [today's Islam and second Jihad is in the image of the first Jihad.  Jihad is the pinnacle of worship in Islam] These both [Mohammed and his Islamic empire "beast"] were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Many folks don't believe Mohammed is a good fit in this verse because he never performed a single miracle. Yet when we consider that the Greek word semeion indicates "that by which a person is distinguished from others and is known", Mohammed's Quran becomes a perfect, and hair raising, fit for this verse.

[edit later addition] I just noticed that the NKJV used the term "signs": (NKJV) Revelation 19:20 ...and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence... [end edit]

Now read the verse again in light of the above suggested possible exegesis:

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm#lbl_map

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Revelation 19:20  kai  <2532> {AND}  epiasqh  <4084> (5681) {WAS TAKEN}  to  <3588> {THE}  qhrion  <2342> {BEAST,}  kai  <2532> {AND}  meta  <3326> {WITH}  toutou  <5127> {HIM}  o  <3588> {THE}  yeudoprofhthV  <5578> {FALSE PROPHET}  o  <3588> {WHO}  poihsaV  <4160> (5660) {WROUGHT}  ta  <3588> {THE}  shmeia  <4592> {SIGNS}  enwpion  <1799> {BEFORE}  autou  <846> {HIM,}  en  <1722> {BY}  oiV  <3739> {WHICH}  eplanhsen  <4105> (5656) {HE MISLED}  touV  <3588> {THOSE WHO}  labontaV  <2983> (5631) {RECEIVED}  to  <3588> {THE}  caragma  <5480> {MARK}  tou  <3588> {OF THE}  qhriou  <2342> {BEAST,}  kai  <2532> {AND}  touV  <3588> {THOSE WHO}  proskunountaV  <4352> (5723) {DO HOMAGE}  th  <3588>  eikoni  <1504>  autou  <846> {TO HIS IMAGE.}  zwnteV  <2198> (5723) {ALIVE}  eblhqhsan  <906> (5681) {WERE CAST}  oi  <3588> {THE}  duo  <1417> {TWO}  eiV  <1519> {INTO}  thn  <3588> {THE}  limnhn  <3041>  tou  <3588> {LAKE}  puroV  <4442> {OF FIRE}  thn  <3588> {WHICH}  kaiomenhn  <2545> (5746) {BURNS}  en  <1722>  tw  <3588> {WITH}  qeiw  <2303> {BRIMSTONE;}