Unbelievable bro. I am so sorry. I just deleted your post. It was a great post. This is the first time since I have been using the "Peter" ID instead of the regular member "Pete" identity, that I have pushed the "modify" button, rather than the "quote" button.
I removed everything I didn't want to quote and added this.
"I called brother Skolfield yesterday to ask about the translator, (not-so) "helper" word [one], in the Greek. We got cut off early but he did share that he believes 2.7 is a reference to the Holy Spirit, which was poured out on (not in) all flesh, and that it is the Holy Spirit that will be taken out of the way.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."
Only instead I really did remove everything. That whole great post. I don't suppose you had a copy saved in word or something do you?
I am so, so, sorry.
If you have another copy of the browser open you might find you can copy and paste it from there if it hasn't refreshed.
No problem Pete. I still had the post open and hilighted for copying and pasting.
So here it is.
On the contrary, I'm very comfortable listening to what my Lord is telling me, trusting He will let me know what I need to know if I'm still alive on earth when He returns.
I'm sure you did not intend it this way but statements like that imply that others are not listening to the Lord if they disagree with you. If we were discussing verses that are completely closed to interpretation or dealt with core doctrinal issues then it would be different.
I’ve explained this twice before, so here it is again. Taking his seat in the temple of God could mean letting Satan empower him as "the man of lawlessness."
And the question has yet to be addressed. How do you support a belief in a single antichrist that will reign on earth when scripture does not indicate on in this chapter or any other passage of scripture?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=415.0It is important to note the core theme of this epistle. It was an exhortation to the church of Thessalonica for their charity and endurance in the face of tribulation. It was also meant to assure them that those who caused them tribulation would be held accountable on the day of Judgement. It is common in our walk with God to look around us and wonder why He allows so much evil to oppress us. But we have hope that one day that evil will be consumed in an unquenchable fire. For those who did not turn from their evil ways their fate is dismal indeed. This theme is covered in the opening verses of chapter 1.
2Th 1:1 ¶ Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 1:3 ¶ We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
You will see that the perpetrators of this tribulation are mentioned plurally. Because it is at the hands of many people that the churches were meeting their persecution. Paul then took the time to expound upon the driving force of this persecution to add perspective to the tribulation the church was experiencing and assure them that it was necessarily going to happen before Jesus' return.
2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Let's take the time to see how this word was used in the original greek.
that man anthropos-a human being, whether male or female
a) generically, to include all human individuals
b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1) of animals and plants
2) of from God and Christ
3) of the angels
c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or prompted to sin
d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman
If Paul had wish to convey the meaning that this would be a single individual he had a more appropriate word to use.
deina-1) such a one, a certain one, i.e. one whose name I cannot call on the instant, or whose name it is of no importance to mention
Or
arr?n-1) a male
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
himself-1) himself, herself, itself, themselves
The same holds true for the word he in this verse. Paul used autos...
he-1) himself, herself, themselves, itself
2) he, she, it
3) the same
...instead of tis.
tis-1) a certain, a certain one,2) some, some time, a while
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
This verse tells us that the work of that man of sin is constantly at work and was already at work then. The only way he can manifest himself is if we let him, and he will continue to do so until that sinful nature is conquered once and for all.
he that now arti-1) just now, this moment
2) now at this time, at this very time, this moment
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
This verse gives the location of where the man of sin operates. WITHIN those that perish who would not recieve the love of the truth.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
This verse reaffirms what the verses preceding have already said. That those who allowed the man of sin to work would be judged accordingly. Knowing all of this how do you suppose that a single figure is the embodiment of that man of sin when Paul said that it was working in his day, was in those who rejected the truth, used words to convey that it was applied generally, and the use of similiar literary devices in other epistles. ie.
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Are we to believe there is only one natural man that cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God?
As for deciding that a physical Temple does not have to be rebuilt before Jesus returns, these verses in Acts 15 helped me,
15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN, AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL RESTORE IT,
17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'
David never built a Temple for God’s presence, Solomon did. The temple David built was one of the heart. God is rebuilding a temple of praise and worship in the hearts of His children.
Blessings [/b]
Why then do you insist on a single man of sin when nowhere in this passage does it indicate a single individual.
