Author Topic: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus  (Read 14706 times)

Peter

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YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« on: August 05, 2010, 07:11:47 AM »
This original post is going to be under construction for a little while and will be subject to editing.

[edit addition 1-14-11 - We do have to wonder how different the world might be if the Jews hadn't succumbed to a later tradition and stopped using God's name YHWH in their bibles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#In_later_Judaism
Might the Arabic language bibles all over the world have then been using God's name YHWH instead of the name of the Quraish pagan's god "Allah", thus providing another window into the stark contrast between Mohammed's god and the God of the bible, further isolating Mohammed's followers as being exactly that - Mohammed's followers? http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2265.0
I believe I sense distinct defensive - or maybe more like hopeless - attitudes in Muslims when I invoke the names YHWH and Yeshua, and they in turn realize they are stuck responding to replies by invoking the Arabian pagan's god's name "Allah". - end edit]

Lately I have increasingly been seeing the advantage of using God's name Yahweh/Yahshua a little more often. It came up when I was, once again, answering to a Muslim regarding the name of the moon (and later star) god "Allah"s name.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

Let me preface by saying that, as Christians, I believe we are saved according to the condition of our hearts, and not by technical details of religious practice. One of the reasons I have not used Yahweh/Yahshua/Yeshua more, was a concern that some might associate me with some of the fringe element of the Messianics, that suggest that Christians that attend church on Sunday are heading to perdition, and condemn those that don't follow the law, even though they fail just as miserably as men always have at keeping the law - while distracting themselves from the foundation of truth - by their own flesh. Or that folks might get a first impression that I was an elitist or academic and be more reluctant to chat with me.

It is also important to note that the lingua franca of the 1st century Holy Land was Koine Greek. So the Greek name "Iesous", is perhaps the name by which the Messiah was referred by Gentiles, while the Jews may have referred to Him as Yeshua or Iesous.

Koine Greek is the language of our inspired New Testament scriptures. There was no "J" in Hebrew, Koine Greek, Latin and even in English until around the 16th century. The Koine Greek name "Iesous" eventually evolved in the English language into "Jesus". The earlier 17th century King James Bibles used "Iesous".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO33gMdkm50

At least in regard to chats with Muslims I believe it would be beneficial if they were frequently presented the names Yahweh and Yahshua besides the more generic English term "God" and the English language name "Jesus". This would constantly highlight the difference between the proper Hebrew name of our quite opposite Yahweh, from the pagan Arabian moon god's name "Allah". http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

The name Yahshua should also help resolve Muslim ignorance to, and rejection of, the triune nature of God. For this reason I presently tend to favor the transliterated Hebrew "Yah" version of "Yahshua", whose name alone, is an expression of the Godhead, though "Yeshua" is more commonly used and may be viewed as being less "fringe".

The Tetragrammaton "YHWH", or the NAME of God, is cited in Scripture nearly 7,000 times. The meaning of the name translated into English is "I AM".  Christians and Jews understand from Genesis that the name Yahweh means "I AM" which I personally see as a very descriptive name for God.

KJV Exodus 3:14 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

From a version of the Tanach from the Jewish Publication Society 1917
Another (though in my opinion a bit weaker but sometimes useful)

In the process of doing a little web research I was interested to find a "Sacred Name" King James Bible.
http://www.eliyah.com/Scripture/
http://www.sacrednamebible.com/

Something I hadn't known, or perhaps hadn't really seen before I investigated a little, is that the transliteration from the Hebrew "Yahshua" or Aramaic Yeshua" name (I apologize for Wikipedia links), that I have been exclusively using the name "Jesus" for, means "Yahweh saves" or "I AM saves" or "Yahweh is salvation".

What if the Arabic Bible translations had used the Hebrew name for Yahweh/Yahshua, instead of inadvertently blaspheming His name by calling Him by the name of the pagan Arabian moon and later star deity "Allah".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

"Yeshua", in the English form Jeshua (as used in multiple instances in Ezra, Nehemiah, and 1 and 2 Chronicles), with the verb "to deliver" (or, "to rescue").[5]  It is often translated as "He saves," to conform with Matthew 1:21: "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins" (NASB).[6]"

"The name Yehoshua has the form of a compound of "Yeho-" and "shua": Yeho- is another form of Yahu, a theophoric element standing for the personal name of God YHWH, and shua' is a noun meaning "a cry for help", "a saving cry",[8][9][10]  that is to say, a shout given when in need of rescue. Together, the name would then literally mean, "God is a saving-cry," that is to say, shout to God when in need of help."

"Another explanation for the name Yehoshua is that it comes from the root yod-shin-'ayin, meaning "to deliver, save, or rescue"."

I think I have perhaps been doing the Muslims a disservice by not invoking this sacred and highly descriptive name often when involved in discussion because perhaps the only thing Muslims deny more vehemently than salvation through Jesus Christ, is that Jesus is the Son of God.

Sadly, Muslims have actually been deceived into believing that remission of sin can instead be achieved by marching around the kaaba 7 times, throwing stones at a wall, getting their hair cut, shouting on a hill, along with additional copying of the Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn/demon worship rituals of the pagan Quraish immigrants to Mecca.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm#hajj_umrah

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 596: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "Whoever performs Hajj for Allah's pleasure and does not have sexual relations with his wife, and does not do evil or sins then he will return (after Hajj free from all sins) as if he were born anew."

To my knowledge the name "Jesus" does not contain a meaning in Hebrew Greek or English, except as understood in the context of scripture. Compare that with the transliteration of Yahshua and what it means.
Might we be able to be more effective if Muslims are repeatedly shown the Hebrew name of the Messiah?
I had some time ago skimmed the following Q&A by Craig Winn, in the post that follows, but perhaps because of blindness or fatigue I couldn't see the full importance of it at that time, that I do now.
_________________

[edit add 6-28-11] Look at the nearly hysterical reaction of YouTube Muslims to this video. They have proudly offered it as proof, in replies to me plenty more than once. As if to say "Oh a Yemenite Jew says "Allah" is God's name, oh happy day, oh happy day, a Jew says God's name is Allah! We always love what Jews have to say! Oh happy day, there's the proof that Yahweh's name is really "Allah!"
Over a 170,000 views as of 6-28-11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65zyICBKBPI
________________

[Edit August 8th]
As I was composing this original post I started looking for an online "sacred name" King James bible and found the following video, as well as the "restored" King James from....
http://www.eliyah.com/Scripture/

I may substitute the name Yahweh/Yahshua into the KJV now and then for effect, but will continue to use the KJV since after some further investigation there are too many changes in this version.

I really enjoyed this video. It's 2 1/2 hours long but I thought well worth it.
"The Hebrew Roots of Christianity"
http://www.eliyah.com/

Playlist breaking the video into 15 parts - also suitable for the hearing impaired
http://www.youtube.com/user/IslamExplored#p/c/B2DB90F9DDBF1A2E/0/gTvvlksrZmk

Part 2 covers origins of the name "Jesus" and the importance of the transliteration of the Hebrew name "Yahshua" of the Messiah, and what that name means. Also the importance of using "Yahweh"s name.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBQCuypmxQc

Part 3 covers more on the Tetragrammaton YHWH (Yahweh) that occurs almost 7,000 times in Scripture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWEjz-OjqDI

Part 1 covers a little of what the first century church was like, and some of the pagan customs that were brought into the "church", that is also covered in books like "Pagan Christianity" and mentioned in "Prophet of Doom" as well as many other critics of these traditions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTvvlksrZmk

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 07:15:59 AM »
From Craig Winn, author of a great read "Prophet of Doom" (available free online)

"Q:     Why do you refer to God as Yahweh? Who is Yahweh?     

A:    Yahweh is the actual name of God. In Exodus 3:13 when Moses asked, "who should I tell the Israelites is sending me?" God answered him and said, "YHWH"" or "Yahweh," which means "I Am" in Hebrew. Yahweh's name is given nearly 7000 times in the Bible. "God" isn't a name; it's just a word, one derived from the German, "Gott." It can apply to any false or pagan "deity." By not using Yahweh's name and using, instead, the generic word "God," we are contributing to the deception that we all worship the same God and that Allah is just another word for God. In actuality, "ilah," is the Arabic word for God, and Allah is the name of Muhammad's god. Allah is never mentioned once in the Bible.

Likewise, the name "Jesus" was derived from confusion in translating Greek (which has no "Y" or "J"), to Latin (which also has no "J"), and then to Anglo-Saxon, the precursor of English. We therefore prefer to use Christ's Hebrew name of "Yahshua" which means "Yahweh Saves," or "I am Saves," clearly revealing his mission to mankind that is otherwise obscured in our English translations."
http://prophetofdoom.net/Who_is_Yahweh.Islam

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2010, 07:55:13 AM »
Copy and pasted from the "Sacred Name" KJV (as an introduction).

Exodus 20.2 I am YHVH thy ELOHIYM, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I YHVH thy ELOHIYM am a jealous EL, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


Yet Muslims bow to the very same black stone moon/star god idol "Allah" that the Arabian pagans bowed to, that is located in a big black box - the Kaaba. This is the very same "temple" that was built in the early 5th century by pagan Yemeni immigrants. Muslims are well aware that it was used for moon, sun, star and demon worship, and that it housed 360 pagan idols. Yet Muslims are even compelled to travel to it, as the 5th pillar of Islam, and march around it 7 times, kissing the black stone or at least pointing to it each time around, let alone run back and forth between the hills of al safa and al marwah 7 times, exactly the same way the Arabian pagan jinn/demon worshipers did. Mohammed adopted these pagan rituals in an effort to be inclusive. Indeed Muslims and pagans performed these rituals shoulder to shoulder until the year before Mohammed's last hajj, when the pagans were kicked out of their own rituals!

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689: Narrated Abu Huraira: In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'
Can you picture a bunch of naked "pilgrims" circumambulating the Kaaba?!
See veneration of the black stone http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0
And Hajj and Umrah parts 1, 2 and 3 http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=59.0

punisher

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Re: 7 - Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2010, 05:00:47 AM »

Scripture states that Yahweh was manifest in Yahshua in the flesh, in the lineage of David.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

[/quote]

 The Names: Yahweh and Yahshua

Within the Christian Identity (CI) Movement, there is an ongoing debate about whether we should use the original Hebrew names for our God (Yahweh) and also for christian Savior and King, Yahshua, also known as Jesus Christ.  The two sides of this issue are summarized as follows:
1.) The English names are no good enough and we  need to resort to the Hebrew or Aramaic languages in order to address our Divine Sovereign.
2.) The original Hebrew names convey meanings which are lost in the English translation.

So how can i answer you a thing which is lost? The Bible is unanswerable due to corruption of Man?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 05:03:22 AM by punisher »

Peter

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Re: 7 - Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2010, 05:56:12 AM »

Scripture states that Yahweh was manifest in Yahshua in the flesh, in the lineage of David.
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

 The Names: Yahweh and Yahshua

Within the Christian Identity (CI) Movement, there is an ongoing debate about whether we should use the original Hebrew names for our God (Yahweh) and also for christian Savior and King, Yahshua, also known as Jesus Christ.  The two sides of this issue are summarized as follows:
1.) The English names are no good enough ..........

You misunderstand, my friend. Scripture was written in Hebrew and Greek, with a little Syriac and Aramaic.
English names are ENGLISH NAMES, though the "J" didn't occur even in the English language until perhaps around the 15th century.

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 06:05:48 AM »
.......... and we  need to resort .......

Perhaps a better choice of words would be "revert". As in revert back to the original language names as bequeathed to us by Yahweh himself.

..... to the Hebrew or Aramaic languages in order to address our Divine Sovereign.

Exactly. After all, what's wrong with using Yahweh's actual NAME? The name that HE instructed us was His name?
The Tetragrammaton "YHWH" occurs nearly 7,000 times in Scripture. Vowels were added to make it pronounceable thus the NAME "Yahweh" is recognized by God's people, Jew and Christian. In English it MEANS "I AM". "Allah" does not mean "I AM" in any language on earth, including Arabic.

Exd 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Just as the transliteration of the Hebrew for Yahshua's name MEANS "YHWH saves" or "Yahweh saves" or "'I AM' saves" or "Yahweh is salvation".

Punisher, why do you suppose the transliteration of the Messiah's name MEANS "Yahweh saves"?

Whereas the name Jesus evolved through Latin and Spanish.
Related video on the evolution of this name.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBQCuypmxQc

2.) The original Hebrew names convey meanings which are lost in the English translation.

Exactly! For me this is the most compelling reason to revert to the original names. Because they have meanings. Meanings that should strike terror into the hearts of, the followers of the STAND-ALONE 7th century false prophet Mohammed's, repackaged Arabian paganism.

Peter

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Re: 7 - Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 06:21:34 AM »
So how can i answer you a thing which is lost?

Isn't that a funny question?! By your own admission, in your own post, the names aren't lost at all. On the contrary, more and more people are finding them, understanding them, and using them.
I only recently learned (or maybe had learned, but only recently was able to see) that Yahshua means "Yahweh saves" which resolved my reluctance to use these names, in favor of their use.

The Bible is unanswerable due to corruption of Man?

In my opinion men did err in CHANGING the names of Yahweh and Yahshua in scripture, in foreign language TRANSLATIONS, but as you can see, the Bible remains very much intact. Indeed it offers the most compelling reasons to revert back to the original names for our great sovereign "I AM".

Mohammed's god's NAME "Allah" does not mean "I AM" in any language on earth, and will always remain the name of the pagan Arabian moon, and later star, god.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

mightymouse

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh & Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 02:42:27 PM »
I guess for me it is a matter of who you are aiming to reach. I agree that in this Forum as well as mid-east specific it would have a likely advantage of being more effective toward Muslims and also possibly to any Jewish persons on the site. For reaching the Western world this type of information always causes me to think about the 'common man' and how he would view such changes to familiar terminologies. Would this cause the uneducated man - who rarely has access to the lesser known materials available from extra biblical resources and/or deeper language studies - to feel a bit hesitant or inferior when attempting to evaluate or assimilate these ideas? I have always rejoiced in the fact that God did not leave His Church in the hands of scholars.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 09:26:33 AM »
I guess for me it is a matter of who you are aiming to reach.

I agree with this, but I don't see it as an either/or. I don't think there is any reason not to generously sprinkle God's name in a conversation with anybody and everybody. It is question inspiring toward further exploration.
I am increasingly seeing this as a movement - like the Reformation - as Eliyah suggests.
Mixing God's name in would help in familiarizing folks, and getting them more comfortable with, using it.

Just imagine the effect of restoring the names in Arabic language Bibles, that presently blaspheme the name of God (though innocently through ignorance), by substituting God's name with the NAME of the pagan Arabian moon, and later star, god "Allah".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

Perhaps another compelling reason to understand why so many Scriptures emphasize the use of His NAME.

resistingrexmundi

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh & Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2010, 09:34:56 AM »
Another interesting thing to consider is that Jesus said that the inhabitants of Jerusalem would not see Him return until the say blessed is He who comes in the NAME of the Lord. It is easy to see this as a simple phrase but for that culture especially at that time it held deep significance. If we wish to see our Lord's return Jerusalem must accept Him as coming in the Name of Yahweh.

Luk 13:35   Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord. 
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2010, 09:39:30 AM »
Another interesting thing to consider is that Jesus said that the inhabitants of Jerusalem would not see Him return until the say blessed is He who comes in the NAME of the Lord. It is easy to see this as a simple phrase but for that culture especially at that time it held deep significance. If we wish to see our Lord's return Jerusalem must accept Him as coming in the Name of Yahweh.

Luk 13:35   Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.  

And stunning, within the context of that verse!

yonah33

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 06:22:40 AM »
The Name that is Above Every Name
By Mildred Garner

"What is the name that is above every name? “Jesus,” most anyone would answer. But did the angel of Yahweh tell Joseph, the husband of Mary the mother of our Savior, to call his name Jesus as the scriptures seem to teach? “And she shall bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus (lit. Savior - see center ref); for he shall save his people from their sins,” Matthew 1:21. The word Jesus begins with a “J.” There was not a J in any language until after the 16th century A.D. I have searched for the meaning of the Greek word Iesous (Jesus), for I am aware there is no J in the Greek language, but I have found none.

This creates a problem for the thinkers.

The name given to Joseph by the angel obviously has a meaning. “For he shall save his people.” The name was to mean save. The Greek word for save is “soter,” If, as some say, the Bible was first given to a Greek speaking people, then we should be calling our Savior a Greek word meaning save or savior; therefore, we would call him “Soter.”

The Greek spelling for Jesus is not soter; it is Iesous. What does it mean? The only reference the Strong’s Concordance refers us to is in the Hebrew dictionary. It comes from #2424 in the Greek dictionary, but refers us to #3467 and #3068 in the Hebrew. These two words combined means Yah Saves, or Savior. The one thing we are sure of is the name the angel gave for the Savior was not Jesus, nor was it Soter. The book of Matthew was first written in Hebrew; therefore, the name of the Savior was a Hebrew word, Yasha (meaning save, or savior).

Some insist on the name Yahshua, but does the word “shua” mean save? In 1 Chronicles 2:3, “. . . these three were born to him from the daughter of Shua, the Canaanite.” Shua comes from #1340 and means “daughter of wealth.” It is also a name for a Canaanite woman in First Chronicles 7:32, and does not mean save. Shua seems to be a Canaanite word used by the Hebrews when they adopted the language of the Canaanites.

Number 7769 – shuwa (shoo-ah), in the Strong’s Hebrew dictionary, came from #7768; to be free; but used only causative, and reflexive to halloo (for help, i.e. freedom from trouble). Number 7770, shuwa is the same as #7769. Shua is a Canaanite woman and is a feminine word. In Genesis 25:2, Abraham married the daughter of a Canaanite and she bore their son, Shuah; from #7744, meaning dell, to sink.

Is our Savior a woman? Is he a Canaanite? Does he need to holler (halloo) for help? It is evident that shua does not mean savior in Hebrew. Shua and shuah are both Canaanite words and do not come from the Hebrew language.

In order to find the true name of our Savior we should look up these three Hebrew words: save, savior, and salvation.............."


http://christthecreativeword.org/Messages/the_name_that_is_above_every_nam.htm
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 06:24:36 AM by yonah33 »

Peter

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Re: 2 - WHEN ARE WE?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2010, 06:24:27 AM »
I am going to split this off and put it on the Jesus-Yahshua thread.

paleotimes.org and eliyah.com

Interesting you should mention eliyah.com. Just before the attack I had found his site and wrote this thread.

I even started quoting from his Bible but have cooled it somewhat since. The verse that gave me pause to wonder when I pulled it out for actual application not long ago.

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

So I checked with http://www.eliyah.com/Scripture/
James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the assembly; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of YHWH

Also the same opinion in http://www.sacrednamebible.com/B59C005.htm
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of YHVH:

However Strongs for the last term 2962

of the Lord
New Testament Greek Definition:
2962 kurios {koo'-ree-os}
from kuros (supremacy); TDNT - 3:1039,486; n m
AV - Lord 667, lord 54, master 11, sir 6, Sir 6, misc 4; 748
1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has
power of deciding; master, lord
1a) the possessor and disposer of a thing
1a1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
1a2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
1b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence,
with which servants greet their master
1c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah
For Synonyms see entry 5830

Seems that "Yahshua" would be more appropriate considering Strong's.
I'd like to look at all of the examples of "kurios" in these "restored" versions.
There are abundant examples of folks referring to Jesus as "Lord" in the New Testament.
I doubt that all of these cases are suggesting that folks called Yeshua, YHWH or Yahweh.

Also over and over we read throughout the new covenant that if you ask it in Jesus-Yeshua-Yahshua's name, it will be done. Particularly in regard to healing as in all the examples in Acts.
And since Yahshua means "YHWH saves" it makes perfect sense.

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2011, 08:55:55 AM »
Added to OP and here as a separate topic for discussion.

We do have to wonder how different the world might be if the Jews hadn't succumbed to a later tradition and stopped using God's name YHWH in their bibles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#In_later_Judaism
Might the Arabic language bibles all over the world have then been using God's name YHWH instead of the name of the Quraish pagan's god "Allah", thus providing another window into the stark contrast between Mohammed's god and the God of the bible, further isolating Mohammed's followers as being exactly that - Mohammed's followers? http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2265.0
I believe I sense distinct defensive - or maybe more like hopeless - attitudes in Muslims when I invoke the names YHWH and Yeshua, and they in turn realize they are stuck responding to replies by invoking the Arabian pagan's god's name "Allah".


Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2011, 08:45:48 AM »
Regarding the prior post, one might ponder as to whether it is a coincidence that the Jews and Christians, that use the Arabian pagan name "Allah" in place of Yahweh, are suffering particularly heinous persecution around the world.
How did Christians in Malaysia, for example, come to use the name "Allah"?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=894.0

Revelation on the "beast" Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=12.0

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2011, 06:56:16 AM »
Please discuss this individual post on it's own thread here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2531.0

Entire book available here
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_reviewed_contents.htm

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/so_who_is_allah.htm

Islam Reviewed
 10 - SO WHO IS ALLAH?
Prior Chapter - Contents - Next Chapter

Muslims use the remotest language possible to describe Allah. They try
to make him as transcendent as possible in order to discourage people
from conducting research on him. If you ask a Muslim to define Allah, he
will just beat about the bush, ascribing attributes to him that neither
belong to him nor befit him. But Allah is not as mysterious as Islam
would like the world to believe. He has been at the Ka'aba stone all
along. Certainly, Christians have not prayed enough to displace him and
we may never do so until he meets his doom in the valley of Megiddo.

Some say that the word Allah was or is derived from the Syriac
Alaha. But the name Allah was in existence long before Islam. That is
evidenced from the name Abdullah (meaning servant of Allah) - the
name of Muhammad's father. The question is this: To whom was this
name originally revealed? Certainly none of the Biblical prophets ever
referred to it. There is absolutely no trace of that name in the Bible. It is
Arabic, not Israelite.

But in the mind of Islamic scholars, anything (negative or positive)
done to further the cause of Islam is justifiable, so they can lie and claim
that the name of Allah was revealed to Adam, Abraham or even Ishmael.
Lies can be told about those patriarchs because they have been dead a
long time and aren't around to refute any false claims. And they never
leave Abraham alone.

In pre-Islamic Arabia, that Muslims now refer to as "Al-Jahiliya,"
meaning a period of ignorance, the Arabians were grossly paganistic. In
and around Ka'aba, the Arabs worshiped 360 idols. Each clan had their
own particular idols to worship. It is provable that Allah was one of the
360 idols that Muhammad's Hashimite clan worshiped.

Muhammad's grandfather, Abdul Muttalib, was the leader of Mecca
and a custodian of Ka'aba's 360 idols. The Koran confirms that he was a
pagan. The names that Muhammad's grandfather gave his children are
further proof that Muhammad was from a family of idol devotees.
Muhammad's father was named Abdullah, meaning servant of Allah.
The name of Muhammad's uncle was Abdul Manaf, meaning servant of

 46   Islam Reviewed

Manaf. His other name was Abu Talib, meaning father of Talib. This is
indisputable proof that Allah and Manaf were clannish idols worshiped
by Muhammad and his people. Islamic scholars try to hide the historic
fact that Muhammad worshiped idols before and after he claimed to be
a prophet. But they can't do away with the record of the Koran itself.

That Muhammad was later fascinated by the monotheistic creed of
Jews and Nestorian Christians is beyond question. He encountered many
of them at Mecca and on his business trips to Syria. His wife, Khadija,
was a Catholic, as was Waraqa ibn Naufal, his secret tutor.

Now, Muhammad wanted to unite the Arab race under a theocratic
setting, but there was no way he could carry along all those 360 idols, so
Muhammad decided to pick from among the idols of his clan. Naturally
he picked Allah, the idol for which his father was named. Any of the
idols would have served; an idol is an idol. It is the demon behind an
idol that deceives the mind and heart.

Those who try to single out Allah and deify him above the other
Meccan idols should remember that Muhammad could just as easily
have picked Manaf, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, or any of the others; and his choice
didn't win the support of everyone, including his uncle, Abdul Manaf.
That is clear from the fact that Abdul didn't submit to Allah and Islam
until his death. He held on to Manaf.

This elevation of one idol over the other 359 angered the other
Meccan clans. The purported persecution of Muhammad was nothing
but an inter-tribal or inter-clannish quarrel over whose idol should be or
whose should not be venerated. In the same vein, the Koran was written
in Muhammad's dialect (Quraish). To pacify the other tribes, Muhammad
told them (with concocted "revelations") that the preserved tablet in
heaven was written in Quraish. The world was then asked to swallow the
Islamic lie that all the Ka'aba idols were destroyed. It just isn't true.
About four of those idols are said to remain. The custodians of Ka'aba
should open the stone to independent inspectors should anyone dispute
this.

Just  as  Islam led 1.2 billion Muslims and even some ignorant
Christians to believe that Jesus is Isa or Esau, so it has tried to make the

 Islam Reviewed    47

world believe that Allah is God. But there is no link between Allah and
the Bible God, who revealed His name to be Yahweh, or the "I AM."1
Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary calls the name of the true God a
"Tetragrammaton," which means that it is made up of four letters. Those
Hebrew letters are transliterated YHWH  or JHVH. They are usually
pronounced Yahweh or Jehovah. Yahweh means the "I AM." That name
defines God's eternal being and divine nature: The only true, almighty,
personal, holy God, and "the Father of spirits" (Numbers 16:22, cf. John
4:24), The God who revealed Himself to His people, made a covenant
with them, became their law giver, to Whom all honor and worship is
due.

If God's name was really Allah, why didn't He give that name to the
prophet Moses or to any of the other Old Testament prophets? Why
didn't Jesus ever hint that God might have a name different than the one
already revealed to the prophets? The Supreme Being is eternal isn't He?

If God is without beginning or end, isn't His name also eternal and
unchanging? Of course, but if the Koran is correct, then nobody knew
God's name before Muhammad, and God didn't know what He was
talking about when He told Moses that His name was "I AM that I AM."

It was at the burning bush that God revealed Himself to Moses as
the "I AM" (Exodus 3:14). "I AM" portrays His eternal existence, with no
beginning and no end. He is the only eternal God, there is no other.
There is no room for any usurper idol, no matter what he calls himself.
The name Allah does not belong to the true God, but to an Arabian idol.

But there is more. When Jesus called Himself "I AM" in John 8:58,
He said in effect that He is the same "I AM" who spoke to Moses at the
burning bush. The Jews understood exactly what Jesus meant, and tried
to stone Him for it (John 8:59). They knew that Jesus was declaring
Himself to be the final, perfect and practical revelation of true God. The
prophet Isaiah knew it, too, when he called Jesus "Emanuel," meaning
___________________________________

1 The etymological root of Yahweh is actually an unused Hebrew verb, havah (the
verb to be). JHVH, the "I AM," appears in English Bibles as GOD or LORD, depending
on the translation. The Jews today do not speak or write the word havah, say "I
AM," or write the name of G-d in any form, because they consider the name of G-d
too holy to utter or write. They leave out a letter in G-d, as you see here, or address
Him as Ha Shem, which simply means "The Name."
____________________________________

 48   Islam Reviewed

"God with us." This is not polytheism, God the Father and Jesus His Son
are one Being, one essence. Jesus said:

 John 10:30 "I and My Father are One."
This is the only true and eternal God. All others are idols or imagined
gods.1

I can hear some of you screaming, "Ha! That isn't so; Allah is just
another name for God. Arabs worship the same God we do, under a
different name."

That view is held by many misinformed people, but it is wrong.
Granted, Allah is the Arabic term for their god, but is Allah the name of
the sovereign and almighty God who created the universe? Aside from
Muhammad (whose prophethood the Islamic scholars have yet to prove)
there is no record anywhere on earth of God having spoken through
Arabs. In fact, the Bible says just the opposite. The last book of the Bible
was written at the end of the 1st century. One of its final statements is:
Rev 22:18 . . . If any man shall add unto these things, God shall
add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

Isn't that what Muhammad did? Didn't he claim to be a prophet long
after God commanded that no one should add to His already revealed
Word? So what does this prove, that an entire race can be wrong in their
conception of deity? Well, the Bible says, "Let God be true, but every
man a liar," (Romans 3:4). This means that anything written that is
counter to God's Word is a lie. Since the supreme Being has told us that
His name is Yahweh, the "I AM," whoever claims His name is something
else has been influenced by the devil (John 8:44).

You would think Christians would distance themselves from anyone
who believes that God didn't know His own name, but such is not the
case. The Christians of Hausa stock worship and praise Allah. So long as
Christians bow to Allah, victory over Islam will not happen. Little wonder
that mission efforts among Muslims have had little effect. One who
_______________________________

1 Another verse in the Bible perfectly describes the oneness of Jesus the Son with
God the Father, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
the  government  shall  be  upon  his  shoulder:  and  his  name  shall  be  called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of
Peace."
______________________________

 Islam Reviewed    49

names the name of Christ and bows down to any false god, by whatever
name, is just asking for the enemy to brand the number 666 on his
forehead. Didn't Scripture forewarn us of this danger? Yes indeed:

And he opened his mouth (the dragon inspired  beast) in
blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his
tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven. And all that dwell
upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written
in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the
world. (Revelation 13:6, 8)

It is really blasphemy to slander the concept of the fatherhood of
God and deity of Jesus Christ His Son. Those who do so, don't really
know God. The above quote is very clear: everyone whose name is not
written in Jesus' book of life is worshiping Satan (the dragon). The list
of those in the dragon's clutches is endless. It includes Muslims,
hypocritical Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Hari Krishna, Rosicrucians,
Satanists, drug addicts, homosexuals, rapists, pornographers, those who
dabble into the occult and anyone else who turns away from Jesus, the
Son of God.

Many Christians unwittingly worship the dragon in one way or the
other. Some even sing choruses with Allah's name. If you call yourself a
Christian and continue to revere Allah, then something is desperately
wrong with your understanding of Christianity. The true God is a jealous
God who will not tolerate the worship of any but Him. The Old Testa-
ment nation of Israel was destroyed because they worshiped other gods,
and God has not changed. Maybe you are really sealed with Allah's seal
- with a "666" on your forehead, or maybe your name  is not in the
Lamb's book of life - a Christless Christian - worshiping the dragon.
(Rev. 13:8).

Some yet argue that the Allah the Christians worship is different
from the Allah of the Muslims. They say that Christians and Muslims
differ in their understanding of the character of Allah. But who has a
greater  claim to Allah than the Muslims, and how many Allah's are
there? Many who call themselves Christians are a kind of Rachel in
Christian disguise.1 In the same way, many so-called Christians who
__________________

1 Rachel, due to her lack of a personal knowledge of the "I AM," stole her father's
idol, Gen. 31:19.
_____________________________

 50   Islam Reviewed

don't have a correct understanding of the God of the Bible go a-whoring
after the Islamic god of Allah. They use every argument under heaven to
justify their spiritual bankruptcy, but to no avail. Arguments that do not
agree with God's Word, no matter how logical they may seem, will only
lead to strong delusion.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that
perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they
might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong
delusion, that they should believe a lie. (2Thess. 2:10-11)

The translators of the Hausa Bible have aggravated the problem.
They substituted the name Allah for Yahweh, thereby bringing many
Christians under the influence of the dragon. Some are of the opinion
that before the name "Allah" was used in the Hausa Bible, scholars must
have done extensive research to support their position. But no kind of
research excuses an inaccurate Bible translation. God knew what His
name was when He inspired the Bible, and He gave nobody the authority
to change it. Truth is not discovered through human research, no matter
how scholarly, but by divine enlightenment through the exact Word of
God. Rest assured that any Bible translator who confused Allah with
Yahweh was not inspired by God to do so.

The Origin of Islam among the Hausas

How did the Hausa come about the name "Allah" in the first place?
Well, Sunni Islam came to the Hausa people in the fourteenth century
through the influence of Sudanic and Arab merchants. However, the
purity of that Islam was questioned by a Fulani speaking scholar and
religious leader, Uthman Dan Fodio, who in 1802 declared Jihad against
the traditional Hausa rulers, replacing the indigenous Hausa aristocracy
with a Fulani feudalism. 1
______________________________

1 Islamic purity was merely a pretext. The underlying aim of the Jihadists was to
foist Fulani imperial hegemony on the people of Africa south of the Sahara. The
usual tactic of Islam is to use their religion for political gain. That is clearly seen
in the overthrow of the Hausa kingship. The Sokoto caliphate, with its emirate
system entrenched in almost all parts of Northern Nigeria was able to enslave a
whole race. The Islam entrenched at the end of Uthman Dan Fodio's revolution was
no different from the Islam it supposedly purged. Neither is the present Islam as
practiced by the descendants of Uthman Dan Fodio different from the Islam of the
time of the Hausa kings. Islam is the only system where the enslaved do not aspire
 for freedom because the masters tell their victims that it is the will of Allah. This
is why there will never be democracy in the Arab world. And the West will always
look the other way. That Uthman Dan Fodio's hidden agenda was colonialism is
unquestionable - he gave out flags to lieutenants who moved into various parts of
Nigeria  for settlement. They then fueled inter-tribal feuds in those areas. The
Fulanis pretended to play the role of peace makers, or like the case of Ilorin, they
waged war with the natives to break off from the yoke of the Alafin in Oyo empire.
Subsequently, they killed off these tribal heads and seized power in the confusion.
They even attacked the Borno empire, which was not only an Islamic state but had
refined scholars like El-Kanemi as their leaders.
___________________________________

 Islam Reviewed    51

Hausa men of today not only worship Allah but think, eat, drink and
talk Allah so much so that the pre-Islamic name for the supreme being
has been all but lost. Many people including some Christians are ready
to argue at length that Hausas have had no other name for God but
Allah. Some even argue that Allah is an Hausa word. They are pitifully
wrong. Before Islam was introduced to the Hausas in the 14th century,
the Hausa name for the supreme being was "Ubangiji." That is a truth
that many Hausa men can still confirm.

So why was Allah substituted for Ubangiji? No one really knows. But
it is Arabic, and Arabic is the language of Islam.1 All Muslims are taught
to revere Arabic above their native tongues and Arabic is learned and
memorized by all. Arabic is so revered by some Muslims that they even
drink a concoction called "Ruwa Alo" (made by washing verses of the
Koran written on a slate - a superstition that is believed to be medicinal).
The simple confession of Islamic faith, "Lahi la illa llah Muhammadu
rasul la llah"2 may have knocked the Hausas' pre-Islamic name for God
____________________________________

1 It should be rightly termed racism. Aside from Arabic, other languages considered
holy  in  Nigeria  are  those  of  the  early  Jihadists,  their  collaborators  or  victims;
Fulfulde, Hausa, Kanuri. Anyone who wants to fit into the system must speak these
languages. Through this radical Islamic racism many tribal languages have been
obliterated, such as Holma and Zunu. These were prominent languages in
Adamawa region, but they are no longer spoken. The Fulanis who brought Islam
to them told them their languages were an abomination and paganistic, but that
the Fulfulde and Hausa languages were holy.
     To join the Kanuri/Borno political system and enjoy the privileges of the state,
quite a number of tribes are disowning their languages. By the time they  identify
with Fulani, Kanuri or Hausa, they are enmeshed in Islam. People groups like the
Galgamas, Kotokos, and others prefer to be known as Kanuris, not because they
want to be, but because they feel insecure, and unaccepted as themselves.
2 "Lahi la illa llah Muhammadu rasul la llah" literally means: No god but the
god and Muhammad is messenger of the god.
______________________________

 52   Islam Reviewed

out of their language. That confession has no room for Ubangiji. Perhaps
the name "Ubangiji" was dropped to avoid any appearance of "polythe-
ism."

The Koran has always been used as a vehicle for exporting Arab
imperialism; conquered countries becoming vassal states of the caliphate.
Arab methods may have softened some over time, but their goals remain
the same: world conquest for Islam with an Arabian flavor. Egypt is a
case in point. Egypt today is more Arabian than Egyptian. In His book,
Black Gold and Holy War, PP. 8-9, Ishak Ibrahim, an Egyptian national,
paints a rather bleak picture of how the Arabs invaded his country and
then permeated Egypt with their culture:

"These latter invaders (the Arabs) not only occupied Egypt like
the previous  powers but through their cultural imperialism
permeated every area of Egyptian life, becoming within a few
years an integral part of it. The change they wrought was
permanent. Egypt's original heritage was never to be seen again
except dimly in the lives of a small minority of Coptic Christians
who refused total submission to the Arab enslavers. The high
cost of refusal often meant their own death. Through manipula-
tion, blackmail and outright obliteration of resistance, Islam
became the religion of the majority in Egypt. Few people were
asked to pay the high taxes (Jizya) the Arabs imposed, so their
only alternative (if they wanted to live) was to accept Islam, to
become "part of the faithful." Those too poor to pay taxes, yet
unwilling to convert to Islam, were martyred."

That is the Islamic method, with the ordinary man-on-the-street
forced into a satanic - convert or die - religious web. The ordinary
Muslim desperately needs our love and prayers. He needs to be freed
from the satanic bondage to which he was unwillingly enslaved. We
must repent of wishing him ill. I know what I am talking about, because
I've been there. I used to be a Muslim.

Many Christians in Nigeria, especially those in the north, are not
interested in reaching Muslims. Clergy and laity alike are of the opinion
that Muslims should die and go to Hell for killing Christians and burning
their churches. I believe such Christians are more wicked than the
Muslims they condemn.

 Islam Reviewed    53

Truly speaking, Muslims are not wicked. What people see as
wickedness is religious fervor. They try as hard as they can to live by
what they believe. Muslims are not only ready to kill for Islam but to die
for it - a lesson, indeed, to those who say they believe in Jesus but are
not ready to make any sacrifice for Him.

The aversion towards Muslim people is everywhere. An American
missionologist, conducting a survey in Egypt, found that Coptic Chris-
tians (after 1,300 years of severe persecution from Islam) were against
the salvation of Muslims. The Coptics believe it would be grossly unfair
for Muslims to be saved and make it to heaven after enjoying everything
they have on earth at the expense of others.

We need to take to heart the example of Nelson Mandela of South
Africa. After being incarcerated for almost three decades by the support-
ers of Apartheid, he pardoned all those who jailed him, blaming nobody
but the system. Likewise we need to love Muslims but hate the demonic
Islamic system by which they are bound. We are not instructed to fight
human beings but the devil, not with physical weapons, but with the
weapons of God's Word and prayer (Ephesians 6:12). Love that does not
reach out to help those that are hurting is not God's kind of love. (See
Matthew 5:44).

I am convinced that if Jesus was physically present now, He would
not be going to the churches, but to mosques, to bring Muslims into the
kingdom. His parable in Luke 15:3-7 sets the example. Jesus didn't come
to save the righteous, but to bring sinners to repentance. Open the Bible,
read it, and fall upon your knees. We need to ask God to forgive us for
our hardened hearts and our negligence.

Please discuss this individual post on it's own thread here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2531.0

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2011, 06:36:08 AM »
bump

Peter

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Re: YHWH - Yahweh - Yahshua - Yeshua - Jesus
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2011, 07:16:29 AM »
Any surprise here?
http://www.out-of-zion.com/conflict/Who%20is%20Allah.htm

"The latest post-Christian theological spectacle comes to us from the Netherlands (of Ayaan Hirsi Ali fame), where the Roman Catholic Bishop of Breda, Tiny Muskens, says he wants Christians to start calling God "Allah" because he believes such a gesture would promote "rapprochement between Christianity and Islam". Appearing on Dutch television, the 71-year-old cleric said:   "Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? ... What does God care what we call him?""