Author Topic: Valley of Baca - Mecca? (Makkah)  (Read 6156 times)

Peter

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Valley of Baca - Mecca? (Makkah)
« on: March 18, 2010, 06:09:16 AM »
The name "Makka", is mentioned in Quran surah 48:24, and again in 33:50 (but in parantheses), and is somehow even suggested to be one in the same with the name "Bakka", that is found in Surah 3:96. Even if Mohammed had used two names for Mecca, Islam's holiest city - it's most important geographical location since Adam - would then only be mentioned three times in the Quran. Compare this with the name Jerusalem, which is mentioned 814 times in 767 verses, in the Word or God.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=jerusalem&t=KJV

Some Muslims suggest that there is at least a scriptural record of Mecca mentioned in the Old Testament as "Baca", by removing the following verse from context and trying to suggest a similarity between the Hebrew word Baca and the name "Bakka", from the Quran.

Psalms 84:6 [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.

But the most obvious difficulty with this claim is the very next verse:

84:7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] in Zion appeareth before God.

Zion is mentioned 153 times in God's Word because it is the name of the easternmost hill of ancient Jerusalem.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=zion&t=KJV&sf=5
Thus we see this passage describing a journey to ZION - to Jerusalem - to the Holy Land. Baca simply being a stop along the way.

Baca is the word for weeping and also for balsam trees.

Peter

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Re: Valley of Baca - Mecca?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 07:59:55 AM »
Mecca is 1200 kilometers away from where the pilgrimage to THE Holy Land referenced in scripture took place.


AnnaMuslim

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Re: Valley of Baca - Mecca?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 08:32:03 AM »
Quote
Zion (Hebrew: ?????; Tiberian vocalization: ?iyyôn; transliterated Zion or Sion) is a term that most often refers to Jerusalem and by extension, the Biblical land of Israel. The word is found in texts dating back almost three millennia. In Kabbalah the more esoteric reference is made to Zion[1] being the spiritual point from which reality emerges, located in the Holy of Holies of the First, Second and Third Temple. It commonly referred to a specific mountain near Jerusalem (Mount Zion), on which stood a Jebusite fortress of the same name that was conquered by David and was named the City of David.

The term Zion came to designate the area of Jerusalem where the fortress stood, and later became a metonym for Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, the city of Jerusalem and generally, the Promised Land to come. According to the Hebrew Bible, God dwells among his people Israel.


This is a perfect example of the deception of the Jews: Zion, The spritual point from which reality emerges (in other words a metaphorical place in the heart) the it becomes a place in a temple, then the temple is located in a Place then the place becomes a City and the City becomes a term

Another example
Israel, Children of Jacob 12 in all, One from Judea calling themselves jews, Jews became a Race, A religion and Israel became a place, Same lies to confuse everyone, Same lies to oppress everyone around ISrael, same lies to refute the truth that all Prophets including NABI EESA (ALAYHISALAAM) is Muslim, the messiah sent to tell the Jews to return to Islam (PEACE) Peace means the obedience of ALLAH, one who submits his will to the will of GOD is a MUSLIM

What does this have to do with the THread of the verse, obviously everything, your interpretations, hold absolutely no value or credence, it is empty words that if followed one loses ones faith and start to believe that GOD did not send Prophets to show us how to live and that we should follow our spirit inside of us guided by another GHOST or Spirit

And so the misinterpretations and misleading continues bible verse after Bible verse, with no meaning to GOD

So Zion is jerusalem what is it spiritual significant, how does it increase my spirituality and worship of GOD, If it is the Holiest of HOLIES shouldnt you be worshipping ZION or on MOUNT ZION or send the USA ARMY to clear the area for true worship, in the Hiliest of temples???? The economic impact would be immense. Why because you dont really believe the BIBLE or care to find out the Truth about it, YOU USE IT AS A BIG STICK TO BEAT EVERYONE WITH< SHAME ON YOU

NONE OF YOUR WRITINGS< DR<RAFAT< ELLIS SKOLFIELD HAS ANYTHING INSPIRATIONAL FOR A SPIRITUAL PERSON< IT SPEWS< COMMENTS< OPINIONS< INFERENCES< COULD NOT BE"S> CANNOT BE THIS OR THAT> NO DEFINITE ANSWERS ONLY NEGATIVE SENTIMENTS AGAINST THE TRUTH> Theory of Bible prophey is just that, theory,

ALLAH KNOWS BEST (ALLAH WA A"LAM)
MAY ALLAH GUIDE US TOWARDS DAILOGUE AWAY FROME FALSEHOOD AND INTO DISCUSSIONS OF TRUTH THAT ALL MAY BENET FROM AMEEN



Peter

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Re: Valley of Baca - Mecca?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 09:18:25 AM »
Quote
Zion (Hebrew: ?????; Tiberian vocalization: ?iyyôn; transliterated Zion or Sion) is a term that most often refers to Jerusalem and by extension, the Biblical land of Israel. The word is found in texts dating back almost three millennia. In Kabbalah the more esoteric reference is made to Zion[1] being the spiritual point from which reality emerges, located in the Holy of Holies of the First, Second and Third Temple. It commonly referred to a specific mountain near Jerusalem (Mount Zion), on which stood a Jebusite fortress of the same name that was conquered by David and was named the City of David.

The term Zion came to designate the area of Jerusalem where the fortress stood, and later became a metonym for Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem, the city of Jerusalem and generally, the Promised Land to come. According to the Hebrew Bible, God dwells among his people Israel.


This is a perfect example of the deception of the Jews: Zion, The spritual point from which reality emerges (in other words a metaphorical place in the heart) the it becomes a place in a temple, then the temple is located in a Place then the place becomes a City and the City becomes a term

What you quoted confirms Zion is the name of Jerusalem.
Are you suggesting that this is a 3,000 year conspiracy of some sort?
That Zion is really Mecca? That the Holy Land is really Mecca and not Israel? That Solomon's temple was really built in Mecca?
No surprise that you would want to rewrite history, since none of it fits Mohammedan 7th and 8th century fiction.
ZION


Another example
Israel, Children of Jacob 12 in all, One from Judea calling themselves jews, Jews became a Race, A religion and Israel became a place, Same lies to confuse everyone, Same lies to oppress everyone around ISrael, same lies to refute the truth that all Prophets including NABI EESA (ALAYHISALAAM) is Muslim, the messiah sent to tell the Jews to return to Islam (PEACE) Peace means the obedience of ALLAH, one who submits his will to the will of GOD is a MUSLIM

Sorry, but Mohammedans didn't come along until the 7th century when Mohammed invented his STAND-ALONE religion to advance his murder, rape, pillage and plunder of imperialistic conquest.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0

What does this have to do with the THread of the verse, obviously everything, your interpretations, ......

The reason I left a link to the verses that contain the term Zion is so that it wouldn't have anything to do with my interpretations.

........ hold absolutely no value or credence, .......

Indeed the point of this forum is to show you that you must reject scripture, history, archaeology and geography to follow Mohammed.

........ it is empty words that if followed one loses ones faith .......

Scripture is the source of faith, as it shows us how to enter into relationship with God, as He revealed Himself to us over His 1600 year record, that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years.
It is you that has been trafficking in "empty words" and 7th century fiction and fables.

........ and start to believe that GOD did not send Prophets to show us how to live and that we should follow our spirit inside of us guided by another GHOST or Spirit

And so the misinterpretations and misleading continues bible verse after Bible verse, with no meaning to GOD

So Zion is jerusalem what is it spiritual significant, .......

Spiritually significant? It isn't because God is omnipresent. Christians don't have to bow to a pagan kaaba.
Jerusalem is, however, where God and His people began their relationship with each other.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=519.0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_in_Jerusalem

........ how does it increase my spirituality and worship of GOD, If it is the Holiest of HOLIES ......

That is a term for the alter in the temple that was used for sacrifice of animals for atonement of sin during the old covenant.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=atonement+sin&t=KJV

...... shouldnt you be worshipping ZION or on MOUNT ZION .......

No, because God is omnipresent. Though throughout the ages folks have enjoyed going on pilgrimage to THE Holy Land.
God continued to further reveal Himself to mankind, eventually providing a single sacrifice, through which all mankind could be saved.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0

........ or send the USA ARMY to clear the area for true worship, in the Hiliest of temples???? The economic impact would be immense. Why because you dont really believe the BIBLE or care to find out the Truth about it, YOU USE IT AS A BIG STICK TO BEAT EVERYONE WITH< SHAME ON YOU

What you really mean is that you have seen what it says, and you don't like the way it portrays Mohammed.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

How does it portray Jesus Christ?
Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0

If you had remained ignorant you may have had an excuse. But now that you have been shown the truth, and reject it, you are left without excuse.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1510.0

NONE OF YOUR WRITINGS< DR<RAFAT< ELLIS SKOLFIELD HAS ANYTHING INSPIRATIONAL FOR A SPIRITUAL PERSON< IT SPEWS< COMMENTS< OPINIONS< INFERENCES< COULD NOT BE"S> CANNOT BE THIS OR THAT> NO DEFINITE ANSWERS ........

Why do you keep trafficking in transparently false accusations when you have been shown the truth?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=55.0

Particularly of scripture, history, archaeology and geography? All your false presumptions are exposed once we understand that the place where Mecca was eventually built in the 4th century was 1200 kilometers away from where God's people were.

........ ONLY NEGATIVE SENTIMENTS AGAINST THE TRUTH> .......

What has been presented are matters of historical, archaeological and geographical fact.
Look at your posting history and see what came of the nonsense you have presented.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1132.msg6464#msg6464

........ Theory of Bible prophey is just that, theory,

ALLAH KNOWS BEST (ALLAH WA A"LAM)
MAY ALLAH GUIDE US TOWARDS DAILOGUE AWAY FROME FALSEHOOD AND INTO DISCUSSIONS OF TRUTH THAT ALL MAY BENET FROM AMEEN

Then why don't you ask Jesus Christ to come into your heart and into your life, to save you from the false prophet Mohammed? Like these former brethren.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus

Why not try reading the Gospel?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

Peter

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Re: Valley of Baca - Mecca?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 10:41:35 AM »
As I posted yesterday, you have a task before you AnnaMuslim. You made several accusations. Now it's time to back them up beginning with this one.

Dear Peter

Everything I type is relevant and not spam, you have so little understanding that I have to begin at the basics in order for you to grasp simple Religious concepts, before you are able to understand your role as a human being.You are not a person that listens to logic, you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist, you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity, you present opinions as evidence. Most disturbing is that you quote from the Quran and Hadith out context and verses you have no knowledge of, you act out of ignorance, and your disrespect is not dialogue.  
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.msg6416#msg6416

Where did I "refute" the "evidence" that you claim I refuted?
How can one refute something that one hasn't seen?


Where is the evidence from the Hindus, Arabs and Persians to which you refer?
Please bring the EVIDENCE, and post it at the following thread link so we can compare the EVIDENCE.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.0

I of course mean historical evidence. Not that 7th and 8th century created Islamic historical fiction penned by those like Ishak and Tabari, but the actual historical record, recorded by those living in or near the times during which it is recorded.