"The seven heads are seven (oros - mountains or hills)...."

[Peter]

A little while ago I was reading the Book of Revelation. I am confident that The Roman Catholic Church is not the Beast of Babylon. It is called Babylon and not Rome. The Roman Catholic Church has always confessed The father and The Son, and while Rome sits on seven hills, so does Jerusalem and so does Mecca.

I split this off as a separate topic.

Revelation 17:9  And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

I believe the seven heads of this beast are the same seven successive kingdoms, whether the heads of the LBL beast of Rev 13 or the scarlet beast.  Indeed I don't see how it is workable otherwise since "...seven heads are seven mountains..."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=13.0

The term mountain is used elsewhere in scripture to represent a kingdom or empire so this view can be supported hermeneutically.  Anecdotally, mountain slopes would seem quite descriptive of a graph of the ascent to the peaks, and then fall, of empires. In the following verses it is interesting to note that in the historical context of the passage the "destroying mountain" is the kingdom of Babylon.

Jer 51:25  Behold, I [am] against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.
Jer 51:26  And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the LORD.

Some suggest that the subject verse refers to the Catholic Church because Rome is the city of seven hills, and perhaps in light of the Papal killing of reformation Christians and their persecution of Jews, as well as their misunderstanding of authority in the church, but the subject of this harlot may be a bit broader.  

The KJV translators favored mountain over hill, though Strong's term 3735 oros {or'-os} is translated as mountain or hill.  
mountains
New Testament Greek Definition:
3735 oros {or'-os}
probably from an obsolete oro (to rise or "rear", perhaps akin to
142, cf 3733); TDNT - 5:475,732; n n
AV - mountain 41, mount 21, hill 3; 65
1) a mountain

Mountains as kingdoms is more consistent with "heads", and an ethnographic view, and John's eight successive kingdom beasts, and his leopard-bear-lion beast.  Satan sometimes ruled through the power of the apostate church, burning folks at the stake, etc.

Perhaps the mother of harlots - the woman - sitteth on Satan's kingdoms and has lured men to their destruction since our beginnings, through her material and fleshly attractions, and away from the kingdom of God.

I asked God what He was doing with The Roman Catholic Church because at the same time I do see Rome as the Beast that gave authority to the three headed beast.
I envisioned a large golden box like a footstool in which where trapped all evils. I envisioned the monstrance that holds the Eucharistic Host, and that is the verse of scripture that came to me.

Psalm 110:1
1 The LORD says to my Lord:
       "Sit at my right hand
       until I make your enemies
       a footstool for your feet."

[resistingrexmundi]

but the subject of this harlot may be a bit broader. 

I do believe that to be the case. However I think one reason why the harlot in Revelation mirrors the RCC so much is because in the mind of most people in the world that is who they think of when the word "Christian" is uttered. And when the RCC was formed it instituted the first time that Christianity had been corrupted on such a massive scale. For over a thousand years Catholicism essentially was the only Christianity anyone knew. Catholicism had relegated practicioners of a purer faith to the sidelines. And out of Catholicism came many of the pagan practices that carried over into many modern protestant churches (Pagan Christianity is a great read on that subject)  Which is why I believe it to refer to something broader but it would still make the RCC the mother of harlots since out of her came all of this paganism. Now obviously heresy and blasphemy had plagued the church from the beginning but it became a monster to be reckoned with in the fourth century and wasn't as easily dealt with once the armies of Rome were behind its' doctrines.

[Peter]

but the subject of this harlot may be a bit broader.  

I do believe that to be the case. However I think one reason why the harlot in Revelation mirrors the RCC so much is because in the mind of most people in the world that is who they think of when the word "Christian" is uttered.

Also when we consider the colors and bejeweled nature of the pope and his institution.

Revelation 17:4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

The Roman church has no shortage of the trappings described. The apostate church is fornicating in increasing conformity to this fleshly world.  One pope kissing the Quran and the next bowing toward Mecca from inside a mosque. The woman's array suggests church attire and the rest perhaps suggesting objects of veneration in the physical realm in church buildings.  Indeed I grew up understanding that our physical church building was "God's house".  But scripture suggests otherwise:  1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?  Acts 17:24  God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

And when the RCC was formed it instituted the first time that Christianity had been corrupted on such a massive scale. For over a thousand years Catholicism essentially was the only Christianity anyone knew. Catholicism had relegated practicioners of a purer faith to the sidelines. And out of Catholicism came many of the pagan practices that carried over into many modern protestant churches (Pagan Christianity is a great read on that subject)  Which is why I believe it to refer to something broader but it would still make the RCC the mother of harlots since out of her came all of this paganism. Now obviously heresy and blasphemy had plagued the church from the beginning but it became a monster to be reckoned with in the fourth century and wasn't as easily dealt with once the armies of Rome were behind its' doctrines.

Revelation 17:5  And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Scriptural references to harlot generally mean unchaste or unregenerate. This is thought by many scholars to indicate the apostate, or ecumenical church.

Abominations in today's church include blessing deviate behavior, and trumping scripture with tradition, just as the Pharisees did.  
However, the most conspicuous fake religion, and single greatest abomination in evidence for over 1300 years, is the Islamic mosque the Dome of the Rock - THE abomination of desolation - as prophesied in Daniel, Matthew, Mark and John, the symbol of the Islamic desolation of Jerusalem.  The Islamic desolation continues even today on the temple mount, as Jews and Christians are prohibited from praying or carrying "holy objects", such as bibles, onto it.  The founding verses and mosaic inscriptions, both inside and out, on the Dome of the Rock abomination read: "Far be it from His [God's] transcendent majesty that He should have a Son".  This is the spirit of antichrist.  
The Crusaders were so enamoured by it's beauty that they couldn't bring themselves to destroy it.  But then perhaps God didn't have them destroy it because we would be left without this symbol of Islamic desolation in evidence today.

Revelation 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

This is perhaps a reference to both Old and New Testament "saints", and Christian era martyrs killed by the Roman church.  
Though not by any stretch a church - indeed the exact opposite - since Islam lays claim to the Abramic faith this may include the 1300 years of Islamic murder of Christians and Jews, as they continue to murder and hate - particularly Jews - all over the world today.  

[Peter]

Related chapter in The False Prophet
http://beholdthebeast.com/scarlet_beast.htm

[A Christian Brother]

At this point I am keeping an open mind, given that Mecca also sits on seven hills.

There is a ritual in Islamic Jihad in which they cut their heads and drench themselves in blood. So I can also see that as being this:

Revelation 17:4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

and for this:

Revelation 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

The crusades for the freeing of Jerusalem of the Abomination of Desolation can also fit there.

I am open minded because Holy People have steeped forward from out of The Roman Catholic Church.
Something which we should not forget is that Jesus died for the sins of mankind, and that includes those of the members of The Roman Catholic Church.

At this point my mind is open on this issue, but I am more convinced at this time that it is Islam and not Rome. With Muhammad being the false prophet.

[A Christian Brother]

Revelation :17;19
9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

7 hills of Mecca

1) Jabal abu Siba’
2) Jabal Safa
3) Jabal Marwah
4) Jabal abu Milhah
5) Jabal abu Ma’aya
6) Jabal abu Hulayah
7) Jabal abu Ghuzlan

Revelation 17:10
10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.
11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

The one who is "the other has not yet come" in verse 10, could that even be the false Prophet Muhammad?

[resistingrexmundi]

That is in reference to Islam itself.

[Peter]

11 The beast who once was,

The beast "was" to John, in the first century, and "not yet come" means in John's future, because John was assigned the task to

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=13.0
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/johns_eight_beasts.htm

It requires an ethnographic hermeneutic.

and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

The one who is "the other has not yet come" in verse 10, could that even be the false Prophet Muhammad?

[A Christian Brother]

Yes. that is exactly my point Peter. At the time John had the Revelation Muhammad had not yet come.

I am also questioning this:

Early on, Before Islam, the only things that fitted was Rome. That idea remains even in the marginal notes of Bibles that we have today. So following that tradition it become the Roman Catholic Church. Then everyone may be following a Red Herring.

I am questioning is one of the kings mentioned Adolph Hitler who gave authority to the Beast - The Grand Mufti?

Babylon mother of Harlots - All nations do play the whore with Islam - oil marble, incense.

Babylon was the first of the four beasts in the Book of Daniel. So is Babylon then the "parent Beast" of the three headed beast in the Book of Revelation?

[A Christian Brother]

Now I am not at all sure about this, but wasn't Muhammad rejected by his own, and wasn't it a military group from elsewhere that first accepted Him. Did they come from what was once Babylon?

[Peter]

Yes. that is exactly my point Peter. At the time John had the Revelation Muhammad had not yet come.

I am also questioning this:

Early on, Before Islam, the only things that fitted was Rome.

The Roman Empire never fit as other than the beast that "is" as John wrote.

That idea remains even in the marginal notes of Bibles that we have today.

That would be a Scofield style annotated bible that promotes John Nelson Darby's heresy.
Because of his 19th century doctrine many in the church today are still waiting for the "revived Roman Empire" to come out of Europe, even as we watch Europe fall to Islam.

So following that tradition it become the Roman Catholic Church.

Except for the cults of SDA and Historicists, the Roman Church is not associated with Revelation except beyond being, for some, the great harlot that rides the scarlet beast.

 

Then everyone may be following a Red Herring.

Well put.

I am questioning is one of the kings mentioned Adolph Hitler who gave authority to the Beast - The Grand Mufti?

In Rev 13 we learn that "the dragon" gave his power, seat and authority to the beast. That would be Satan himself.

Babylon mother of Harlots - All nations do play the whore with Islam - oil marble, incense.

Babylon was the first of the four beasts in the Book of Daniel. So is Babylon then the "parent Beast" of the three headed beast in the Book of Revelation?

What 3 headed beast?

[A Christian Brother]

I don't know why but your reply surprised me Peter.

But the three head beast. I keep referring to it as that for some reason. An old habit perhaps. I do mean this though:

Revelation 13:  1-2
1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea.
And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion

Who or what is that dragon?

You have answered that question Peter.

[Peter]

I don't know why but your reply surprised me Peter.

But the three head beast. I keep referring to it as that for some reason. An old habit perhaps. I do mean this though:

Revelation 13:  1-2
1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea.

A dragon stood on the shore of the sea? What version are you quoting from?

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion

Who or what is that dragon?

You have answered that question Peter.

I understand the "beast" of verse 2 to be the Islamic empire.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=12.0

[A Christian Brother]

Hello Peter the Bible I quoted from is the NIV.

Rev 13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea....

Several other versions say the same, but some also quote as you have put:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea....

There is a very big difference there. I am wandering how that has come about. Obviously John is not the dragon, so how could that be confused?

[A Christian Brother]

Hello. 

I'll add this here as it is related.

I had a thought today which might need looking in to further.

Revelation 13: 1-2
1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea.
And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

Then:

Revelation 17:3-5, 9
3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
5 This title was written on her forehead:
      MYSTERY
      BABYLON THE GREAT
      THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
      AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

It strikes me that Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 are talking about two beasts. Yet I can see both being Islam.

This has only just become known to me that not all Muslims face Muhammad's Mecca (City on 7 hills) when they pray, some face Jerusalem instead. That has brought home to me the two major Islamic sects of Sunni and Shia.

So could it be then that the one beast is the Sunni Muslim and the other the Shia Muslim?

Much thanks. 

[A Christian Brother]

Hello. 
Revelation 17:3-5, 9
3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
5 This title was written on her forehead:
      MYSTERY
      BABYLON THE GREAT
      THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
      AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

It strikes me that Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 are talking about two beasts. Yet I can see both being Islam.

This has only just become known to me that not all Muslims face Muhammad's Mecca (City on 7 hills) when they pray, some face Jerusalem instead. That has brought home to me the two major Islamic sects of Sunni and Shia.

So could it be then that the one beast is the Sunni Muslim and the other the Shia Muslim?

Much thanks. 

Something came to me this morning that I had not considered before.

That second Beast could also be Israel!

Weren't the israeltes often rebuked for playing the harlot? And Jerusalem itself sits on seven hills.

Israel today is an Antichrist.

[resistingrexmundi]

Hello. 

I'll add this here as it is related.

I had a thought today which might need looking in to further.

Revelation 13: 1-2
1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea.
And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

Then:

Revelation 17:3-5, 9
3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
5 This title was written on her forehead:
      MYSTERY
      BABYLON THE GREAT
      THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
      AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

It strikes me that Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 are talking about two beasts. Yet I can see both being Islam.

This has only just become known to me that not all Muslims face Muhammad's Mecca (City on 7 hills) when they pray, some face Jerusalem instead. That has brought home to me the two major Islamic sects of Sunni and Shia.

So could it be then that the one beast is the Sunni Muslim and the other the Shia Muslim?

Much thanks. 

What muslims do not bow to Mecca to pray?

[A Christian Brother]

What muslims do not bow to Mecca to pray?

That is what I thought. But it appears some pray towards Jerusalem instead of Mecca.

What struck me, is that with the Dome of the Rock on the Holy Place, Jerusalem itself has become the city of an antichrist. The Israelites are frequently shown to be in rebuke for playing the harlot in the Old Testament.
With the loss of Jerusalem, two antichrists have been fighting each other over the city ever since.

[resistingrexmundi]

What muslims do not bow to Mecca to pray?

That is what I thought. But it appears some pray towards Jerusalem instead of Mecca.

What struck me, is that with the Dome of the Rock on the Holy Place, Jerusalem itself has become the city of an antichrist. The Israelites are frequently shown to be in rebuke for playing the harlot in the Old Testament.
With the loss of Jerusalem, two antichrists have been fighting each other over the city ever since.

You will have to provide a link showing muslims praying towards Jerusalem. I think you are confusing the direction Muhammad told them to pray towards when he first tried to convince the Jews he was a prophet with our own times. The direction of prayer was changed in Muhammad's lifetime from Jerusalem to Mecca once the Jews made it very evident they did not accept him.