Ishmael, Hagar, Abraham, Paran & Mecca (Ismail, Hajar, Ibrahim)

[Peter]

The Bible hasn't changed over those 3,000 years. You yourself claimed that archaeology confirms the bible.
That some men may have reconsidered other men's earlier presumptions regarding it's location is of little consequence. It certainly doesn't change the bible.
And in either location it's still a thousand km from where Mecca was eventually built in the 4th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.0

The Bible hasn't changed over those 3000 years,

The name of Bible was Injeel in Hebrew, the whole name is changed and u r saying that Bible hasn't changed over those 3000 years, what  a beauty brother peter, i like that??

what a believe i like that???

Can u please tell me what was original name of Bible?

"The English word "Bible" is from the Greek phrase ta biblia, "the books," an expression Hellenistic Jews used to describe their sacred books several centuries before the time of Jesus. Christians adopted the phrase "Old Testament" to refer to these sacred books they shared with Jews.

Jews called the same books Miqra, "Scripture," or the Tanakh, an acronym for the three divisions of the Hebrew Bible: Torah ("instructions" or less accurately "the law"), Neviim ("prophets"), and Kethuvim ("writings," including Psalms, Proverbs, and several other books). Modern scholars often use the term "Hebrew Bible" to avoid the confessional terms Old Testament and Tanakh." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/first/scriptures.html


But I'm glad you brought this up, punisher, as we can add another attribute to Mohammed.
When those around Mohammed saw that he was receiving "revelations", so shortly after spending those long hours with Mohammed's good friend and x-"Christian" Jabr, the local nickname for Jabr became "holy spirit". This compelled Mohammed to create a special surah in a feeble attempt at damage control from the obvious plagiarism.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

The Syriac term "Injeel" is used in the Quran when referencing the Gospel. As you pointed out it is not an Arabic word. Thus we can add liar to the list of attributes of Mohammed, since the Syriac word Injeel is just one out of about a hundred words in the Quran, that are not "pure" Arabic.
You can answer on that related thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=952.0

[Peter]

I don't know why u r blindly defending the mission of Chirsitian Scholars who are going to hell with so many innocent  people like u

I claim that archaeology has to confirm from Bible, what is the real meaning of my claim,


how archaeology is going to confirm with Bible?

archaeology only cofirms with Bible if every statement of Bible is in perfect order, ..........

Then since you believe the bible to be corrupt and not in "perfect order" how were you not lying when you wrote....

"First of all, no archaeological find has ever contradicted the Bible.  Archaeology has only confirmed what the Bible says.  As has been the case with so many other things in the Bible, as archaeology progresses, they will most certainly uncover evidence in the future.  The Bible has yet to be proven wrong by archaeology."

......... but Alas the archaeology has to wait for another 100 year untill the real location of Mt Sanai will confirmed,

No matter how long you wait, Mecca will never become Israel.
The distance between Mecca and Jerusalem is 1232 kilometers. Not even a million years would change that geographical matter of fact.
Thus the place where the one true God, had His people build His temple, a verifiable near 3,000 years ago, will always remain 1232 kilometers away from where Satan had his people build his kaaba for moon, star, planet and demon worship, in the early 5th century AD.
There is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that the kaaba was built earlier than that.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1132.0

[Peter]

Hope after 100 years u will not in this foram, but u will be answering Allah(the God) in the grave for abusing the true Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Muslims have strictly one-way vision, because any time their fellow Muslims ask honest questions about Mohammed they are killed, or at least persecuted.
Even as Muslims blaspheme Jesus Christ the Son of God, His shed blood, and God's Spirit, they then turn around with hollow accusations of "abusing" their "prophet" Mohammed, when all that has been done is point out Mohammed's character as revealed through your own books.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1268.0

My friend, it is your own prophet, that abuses himself. If you have doubts then please show me a single point about which I am incorrect, at the links provided with each individual attribute, detailed in the post at this link.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0

Why do you suppose annaMuslim didn't want to answer this?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=466.15

and before Allah u know  no internet to search for the question???

That's the wonderful thing about the information age. Today Muslims such as yourself must either see the truth about Mohammed and his phony STAND-ALONE 7th century religion, or stick their heads in the sand and voluntarily blind themselves, until their intellect matches that of a 7th century illiterate.

[Peter]

The Kaaba in Mecca was built around the early 5th century AD, and was dedicated to idols of star and demon worship as even Islamic history attests.

(3) Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: Allah's Apostle entered Mecca (in the year of the Conquest) and there were three-hundred and sixty idols around the Ka'ba....(34.49)  (Book #60, Hadith #244)

Even to this day one of those very same idols remains at the Kaaba, which is bowed toward by Muslims 5 times a day, and is circumambulated by Muslims the very same way that the Arab pagans circumambulated it.

The reconstruction was done early 5th century AD. Kabba was First built by Adam and after Adam different constructions were done by the Prophets of Allah.

Your willingness, to parrot the lies of 7th and 8th century fictional Islamic history creators, will never make this true.
If you think this is other than a lie you were trained to believe, then show us the historical and archaeological records, that confirm the ridiculous claim that Adam or Abraham had anything whatsoever to do with the Kaaba.

Yes it's there were three-hundred and sixty idols around the Ka'ba. The people before the arrival of Prophet worship Idols, That's why the filled the House of Allah with Idols, and after the conquest of Makkah the holy prophet break all the idols?.

Muslims VENERATE the very same black stone idol that the pagans VENERATED as representing their moon god.
Muslims still circumambulate this black stone and the Kaaba the very same way that the pagan Arabs circumambulated them.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0

the kabba is only direction we don't worship kabba, we worship one Allah

I'm glad the one true God of the Jews and Christians is omniscient. It doesn't matter what direction God's people pray in.
You pray toward the black stone and kaaba that you VENERATE - just as the pagans did.
But where do the Qibla of the oldest mosques point to?



About 500 miles away from Mecca. They point near Mada'in Saleh where the deity Dushara, who was supposed to have mothered Manat, was venerated.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1272.0

and order the people to worship one Allah???

One former moon god "Allah" perhaps. NOT the God of the Jews and Christians - YHWH - Yahweh - the "I AM".

The Jews that Mohammed loved to slaughter, because they didn't buy into Mohammed's ridiculous STAND-ALONE 7th century religion, had been worshiping the one true God for a couple thousand years, before Mohammed invented his repackaged star and jinn demon worship.
And Christians had been worshiping the same one true God, through the Messiah, for 500 years before Mohammed was ever born.

[punisher]

The Kaaba in Mecca was built around the early 5th century AD, and was dedicated to idols of star and demon worship as even Islamic history attests.

(3) Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: Allah's Apostle entered Mecca (in the year of the Conquest) and there were three-hundred and sixty idols around the Ka'ba....(34.49)  (Book #60, Hadith #244)

Even to this day one of those very same idols remains at the Kaaba, which is bowed toward by Muslims 5 times a day, and is circumambulated by Muslims the very same way that the Arab pagans circumambulated it.

The reconstruction was done early 5th century AD. Kabba was First built by Adam and after Adam different constructions were done by the Prophets of Allah.

Your willingness, to parrot the lies of 7th and 8th century fictional Islamic history creators, will never make this true.
If you think this is other than a lie you were trained to believe, then show us the historical and archaeological records, that confirm the ridiculous claim that Adam or Abraham had anything whatsoever to do with the Kaaba.

Yes it's there were three-hundred and sixty idols around the Ka'ba. The people before the arrival of Prophet worship Idols, That's why the filled the House of Allah with Idols, and after the conquest of Makkah the holy prophet break all the idols?.

Muslims VENERATE the very same black stone idol that the pagans VENERATED as representing their moon god.
Muslims still circumambulate this black stone and the Kaaba the very same way that the pagan Arabs circumambulated them.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0

the kabba is only direction we don't worship kabba, we worship one Allah

I'm glad the one true God of the Jews and Christians is omniscient. It doesn't matter what direction God's people pray in.
You pray toward the black stone and kaaba that you VENERATE - just as the pagans did.
But where do the Qibla of the oldest mosques point to?



About 500 miles away from Mecca. They point near Mada'in Saleh where the deity Dushara, who was supposed to have mothered Manat, was venerated.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1272.0

and order the people to worship one Allah???

One former moon god "Allah" perhaps. NOT the God of the Jews and Christians - YHWH - Yahweh - the "I AM".

The Jews that Mohammed loved to slaughter, because they didn't buy into Mohammed's ridiculous STAND-ALONE 7th century religion, had been worshiping the one true God for a couple thousand years, before Mohammed invented his repackaged star and jinn demon worship.
And Christians had been worshiping the same one true God, through the Messiah, for 500 years before Mohammed was ever born.

The blood of a Muslim Believer is more precious than the entire Kaaba!

Why should this be of any surprise, when Allah Almighty had brought down all of the Angels under the feet of the human-believers when He commanded them to bow down to Adam?

So no, we do not worship rocks and stones.

[Peter]

The Kaaba in Mecca was built around the early 5th century AD, and was dedicated to idols of star and demon worship as even Islamic history attests.

(3) Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: Allah's Apostle entered Mecca (in the year of the Conquest) and there were three-hundred and sixty idols around the Ka'ba....(34.49)  (Book #60, Hadith #244)

Even to this day one of those very same idols remains at the Kaaba, which is bowed toward by Muslims 5 times a day, and is circumambulated by Muslims the very same way that the Arab pagans circumambulated it.

The reconstruction was done early 5th century AD. Kabba was First built by Adam and after Adam different constructions were done by the Prophets of Allah.

Your willingness, to parrot the lies of 7th and 8th century fictional Islamic history creators, will never make this true.
If you think this is other than a lie you were trained to believe, then show us the historical and archaeological records, that confirm the ridiculous claim that Adam or Abraham had anything whatsoever to do with the Kaaba.

Yes it's there were three-hundred and sixty idols around the Ka'ba. The people before the arrival of Prophet worship Idols, That's why the filled the House of Allah with Idols, and after the conquest of Makkah the holy prophet break all the idols?.

Muslims VENERATE the very same black stone idol that the pagans VENERATED as representing their moon god.
Muslims still circumambulate this black stone and the Kaaba the very same way that the pagan Arabs circumambulated them.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0

the kabba is only direction we don't worship kabba, we worship one Allah

I'm glad the one true God of the Jews and Christians is omniscient. It doesn't matter what direction God's people pray in.
You pray toward the black stone and kaaba that you VENERATE - just as the pagans did.
But where do the Qibla of the oldest mosques point to?



About 500 miles away from Mecca. They point near Mada'in Saleh where the deity Dushara, who was supposed to have mothered Manat, was venerated.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1272.0

and order the people to worship one Allah???

One former moon god "Allah" perhaps. NOT the God of the Jews and Christians - YHWH - Yahweh - the "I AM".

The Jews that Mohammed loved to slaughter, because they didn't buy into Mohammed's ridiculous STAND-ALONE 7th century religion, had been worshiping the one true God for a couple thousand years, before Mohammed invented his repackaged star and jinn demon worship.
And Christians had been worshiping the same one true God, through the Messiah, for 500 years before Mohammed was ever born.

The blood of a Muslim Believer is more precious than the entire Kaaba!

Why should this be of any surprise, when Allah Almighty had brought down all of the Angels under the feet of the human-believers when He commanded them to bow down to Adam?

So no, we do not worship rocks and stones.

If you use that obnoxious red highlighter again I will move your post to spam until you fix it.

The quote is not at all a surprise. It highlights the importance of slaughtering others, in a maniacal suicidal rage was, to Mohammed's bloodthirsty Allah. And to his followers unto today. It doesn't minimize the importance of venerating the black stone as much as it EMPHASIZES THE IMPORTANCE of murdering others through imperialistic conquest.

Muslims VENERATE the black stone, just as the pagans did, and as shown in that RELATED thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.15
Indeed traveling to it, and circumambulating it like the pagans did, is one of the 5 pillars of Islam! So don't try to pretend that something that you bow to 5 times a day is unimportant!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1320.0

And you have yet to bring any historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that the kaaba existed before pagan immigrants built it in the early 5th century. Thus all of your rituals that are related to Mecca are purely pagan in origin. This thread already demonstrated that it is a geographically preposterous notion to suggest that Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael ever set foot in the place where Mecca was eventually built in the 4th century AD.

Please bring us the historical or archaeological EVIDENCE that suggests otherwise.

[punisher]

why u don't move this to spam i wonder?

[Peter]

why u don't move this to spam i wonder?

If you bother to read the category you don't have to wonder.
"Posts will be moved here from spammers who jump in the forum with multiple copy and paste, until such time as they respond to, the responses that have been given to, their original post."

I explained the reason several times this morning as.....

"I am going to move all your posts to spam storage this morning, until you quit ignoring the post at the following link that you have repeatedly ignored in several threads.
Your posts can be moved back to their current locations after you comply.
You will not be allowed to ignore posts any more. Please see forum decorum. You are required to engage in an exchange.
Now please answer to this post link."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1482.msg6247#msg6247

[Peter]

AnnaMuslim please review the thread and explain how Abraham, Hagar, and as you believe their infant, son Ishmael, traveled the 1200 kilometers across harsh Arabian desert from Israel to Mecca, over 900 years before the first caravan route was ever established (after towns were started and water wells dug) along the Red Sea, to rebuild the Ka'aba.
Did Abraham wait in Mecca until Ishmael was old enough to help him build the Ka'aba?
Did Sarah and Isaac join them there until Ishmael got old enough to help?
How did Ishmael make it from Mecca to Hebron in time for Abraham's funeral?
Hisham suggested they rode back and forth on flying animals like Mohammed's fanciful ride. Is that what you believe?

[Peter]

bump