"COMBAT KIT" to counter Ahmed Deedat's and bring the Gospel to Muslims

[Peter]

[edit 9-16-10 addition - The history of Mecca may be the most important initial subject for many Muslims 
http://www.historyofmecca.com end edit]

Not long before Ahmed Deedat was stricken down by a stroke that immobilized him, and silenced his famous Greek sophist style mouth for his last 9 years, he had developed what he called a "combat kit" to be used against Christians. In his usual style, rather than promoting Islam, his interest was in tearing down God and His people the Christians and Jews.
He was approached repeatedly by Christian men explaining the preposterous, inaccurate and downright false nature of the deception that he authored, but in true Deedat fashion, he ignored the truth and simply marched proudly forward, blaspheming Jesus Christ and the God of the Christians and Jews the whole way. One of the late sermons he did regarded blaspheming Jesus shed blood on Good Friday, in Australia. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=119.0

Most of the nonsense Muslims believe that is covered in the "Islam in, and on, Scripture" section has Deedat's fingerprints on it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0

[Edit 5-3-10] All Christians should try going to YouTube or Muslim forums and include elements of the following question, in your own words. I am finding that I am blocked in short order when I ask this embarrassing question.

How did Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael wander from Hebron (or Beersheba where Hagar and Ishmael actually wandered) to Mecca, across a thousand kilometers of (at that time) uninhabited, unexplored, unknown, barren, desolate desert wasteland, about 900 years before the first caravan route was established along the Red Sea, only to take up residence in one of the harshest desert environments, that even Arabia has to offer?

This question is not only unanswerable, but devoid of an answer. Mecca and their rituals of Hajj and Umrah etc. etc., can only be seen as the repackaged jinn devil worship and Arabian Star Family worship rituals, that they are, and that even Mohammed's closest followers saw them as.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance .... " (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)

If they try to obfuscate by feebly throwing out a reference to the new location of Mt. Sinai at Jabal al-Lawz, it has nothing to do with the question, and you can still point out that even the location they prefer, is still 1000 kilometers north of Mecca. [end edit]

You can use these forum friendly sized maps




________________

[Edit 4-12-10] The "History of Islam" section may be the most important section to glean info from, for helping boisterous proselytizing style Muslims, because it would seem that perhaps some Muslims first have to overcome Islam, before they can even begin to see the love of God through the Gospel. [end edit]

The post link in this thread that follows details some themes I use in YouTube today (3-8-10) and may be the most important for deconstructing Islam. It is hardly necessary to argue theology, or preposterous notions of Islam in the bible, when there is not a single shred of historical, or archaeological record, that Mecca ever existed before Yemeni pagans built it in the 4th century AD. This means that what the Muslims believe, is as a matter of fact, physical impossibility.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=158.msg4412#msg4412

Here is a PDF on Islam suitable for ALL Christian denominations and doctrines. Please get the word out.
This one sized for shirt pocket - Z fold in 2 directions http://petewaldo.com/isl1.pdf
This one 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 to fit in church bulletin http://petewaldo.com/isl2.pdf

When ministering to Muslims
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Tracts for passing out or leaving in the proximity of Muslims as well as to wake up a slumbering church
http://petewaldo.com/free_tracts.htm

Here is a ONE MINUTE, complete course on Islam, dubbed "ISLAM 101"
video version; http://www.youtube.com/user/PeteWaldo
Text version: http://petewaldo.com/

The Muslim's irreconcilable conundrum.
http://petewaldo.com/mohammeds_conundrum.htm

Islam the opposite
http://petewaldo.com/islam_is_the_opposite.htm

What the Quran says about the Bible
http://petewaldo.com/bible_in_quran.htm

Introduction to Islam - for the church
http://petewaldo.com/introduction_to_islam.htm

The Religion of peace - in process
http://petewaldo.com/religion_of_peace.htm

Understanding Islam - some tools
http://petewaldo.com/understanding_islam.htm

In conversations with Muslims on YouTube I have found that most Muslims have absolutely no idea what the Word of God says, or what Christians believe, except through deceptive liars like Deedat that even created his own bible verses, to delude his poor minions. Indeed many seemed shocked when they read the actual verses from God's Word.

It occurred to me to put together a Christian "combat kit" with which to answer Islam, but rather than make one like Deedat's foolish attempt to tear down the Word of God, we can instead simply focus on using obvious quotes from the New Testament of God's Word, to deconstruct Islam.

The world is under siege in a 1400 year war that Islam has engaged in against the non-Islamic world. As Christians we understand that Islam and that spirit of antichrist can only be slain by the Sword of the Spirit, God's Holy Word.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

The verses in the following posts can be conveniently copy and pasted into Muslim YouTubes, or any conversations in which you are introducing Muslims to the gospels.

Indeed they are useful in helping Muslims understand that Islam is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Christianity. Even a devout atheist should be impressed at the odds of 1/3 of mankind being in the grip of a religion, recited by a false prophet, that is the only anti-another-religion by design, and exact opposite of God's Word and prophet the exact opposite of Jesus Christ. Islam is antichrist.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_the_opposite.htm

Mohamed was an antichrist. Each and every Muslim is an antichrist.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/antichrist.htm

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Since HTML, like bolding and larger fonts, is not possible on YouTube the only way to emphasize words is to capitalize them. I have not found anyone in the YouTube community that characterizes this as "shouting" as some in this type of forum do.

The YouTube community is full of proselytizing Muslims. Many censor or don't allow comments, or will remove comments, but some allow comments.

Links can't be posted on YouTubes, but you can break a link at the "dots" and it will post. When you can, you can drop a link to Islam and the Truth to introduce them to the Gospels and to many former testimonies of former Muslims who have come to know the love of God.

Post links in this fashion: islamandthetruth. com
Generally I think people know to copy and paste and then remove the space.

ENJOY SPREADING THE GOOD NEWS!

[edit add: 1-8-13]

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
                           
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
                     
2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.   

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

[Peter]

[disappeared and reconstructed from database on 10-25-15]

Muslims are taught many preposterous notions reagarding Mohammed prophesied in God's Word (other than in the false prophet references). This forum contains a special section devoted specifically to this nonsense: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0

"Christians are polytheists."

Muslims believe God has a spirit. By the same measure they apply to Christians then:
1+1=2
Muslims are polytheist. Here are related verses from the Quran:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0

GOD'S LOVE:

"Hitler was a Christian" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY

Explain to them the only way they can identify a Christian:

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 BY THIS SHALL ALL [MEN] KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, IF YE HAVE LOVE ONE TO ANOTHER.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; FOR GOD IS LOVE.

1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth HIM THAT BEGAT loveth HIM also THAT IS BEGOTTEN of him.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Mark 12:31...Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Islam's answer:

“The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until you make war on the Jews, until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree, and the rock or tree will say: Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, here is a Jew behind me, kill him!’”

Allah's Apostle said, :"You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" (video) Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 - Sunna: Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985) USC had to remove this "inspired"

THE BLOOD OF JESUS:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Mat 26:28 For this is MY BLOOD of the new testament, which is SHED FOR MANY for the remission of sins.

Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and WITHOUT SHEDDING OF BLOOD IS NO REMISSION.

Witnesses:

Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and GAVE UP THE GHOST, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he GAVE UP THE GHOST.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and GAVE UP THE GHOST.

Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

ISLAM'S ANSWER 5 CENTURIES AFTER THE EYE WITNESSES:

Surah 4:157 "That they said (in boast), 'WE KILLED CHRIST Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah'- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

GOD'S SON

Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.

Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], THOU ART MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.

Luk 3:22 ...and a voice came from heaven, which said, THOU ART MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that THIS IS THE SON OF GOD.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself THE SON OF GOD.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth HIM THAT BEGAT loveth HIM also THAT IS BEGOTTEN of him.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because he BELIEVETH NOT the record THAT GOD GAVE OF HIS SON.

Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?

1Jo 5:10  He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave of his Son.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, AND BRING UPON THEMSELVES SWIFT DESTRUCTION.

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

Old Testament Father-Son prophecy:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us A SON IS GIVEN: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and HIS NAME shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

New Testament fulfillment:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. 14 And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Old Testament Father-Son prophecy:

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

New Testament fulfillment:

Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

BEGOTTEN:

While the bible references sons of God, there is only ONE - THE Son of God. 47 verses in the KJV use the term "the Son of God" in reference to Jesus. A plethora of others refer to Jesus simply as THE Son.
This is because He is THE ONLY BEGOTTEN of God.

begat
1. To father; sire.
2. TO CAUSE TO EXIST OR OCCUR; produce: Violence begets more violence.

Who caused Jesus to exist?
Muslims even admit that Jesus was uniquely made by God, yet must deny the obvious because of the turn of a verse.

Verses with the term begotten:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

ISLAM'S ANSWER:

Surah 9.30 THE JEWS CALL ‘UZAIR A SON OF GOD, AND THE CHRISTIANS CALL CHRIST THE SON OF GOD. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. GOD’S CURSE BE ON THEM: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Surah 9.30 THE JEWS CALL ‘UZAIR A SON OF GOD, AND THE CHRISTIANS CALL CHRIST THE SON OF GOD..... GOD’S CURSE BE ON THEM: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious HAS BEGOTTEN A SON!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! 90 At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, 91 That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.

AND SO THAT SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST:

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

SPIRIT OF GOD:

Old Testament Spirit of God:

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the SPIRIT OF GOD, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

New testament fulfillment see next post.

IN ISLAM:

You will rarely get a Muslim to admit that God has a Spirit, even though they believe that He does.
Muslims even call Jesus Ruhullah, which means Spirit of God.
The reason they can't admit to believing that God has a spirit is that it exposes their obvious hypocrisy since, by the same measure they accuse Christians, it would make them polytheist. Believing in 2 gods.

Sura 38:72 "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of MY SPIRIT, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

ONE GOD:

Mark 12...Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord 32 ... for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him:

John 10:30 I AND [MY] FATHER ARE ONE. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because HE MADE HIMSELF THE SON OF GOD.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Jesus even told Satan He was God when Satan tempted Him:

Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, THOU SHALT NOT TEMPT THE LORD THY GOD.

[Peter]

As amazing as it might seem to us Christians, some Muslims even believe that the bible foretells Mohammed's coming, many suggesting that he was the "Spirit of Truth" and even that he was the "Comforter". Preposterous on so many levels, but any time a deceiver like Deedat said such things, Muslims were dying to believe it, and any other shred that tried to portray Mohammed in any light more favorable than their own Hadith bequeaths to them.


John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 [Even] THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; whom THE WORLD cannot receive, because it SEETH HIM NOT, neither knoweth him: but YE KNOW HIM; for he DWELLETH WITH YOU, and SHALL BE IN YOU.

The world "seeth him not" because Mohammed wasn't born?
The apostles "knew" Mohammed and he "dwelleth with" them 500 years before he was born?
Mohamed was to be IN THE APOSTLES?


The bible tells us exactly who the comforter is:

John 14:26 But THE COMFORTER, [which is] THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Not comfortless for 1 minute, let alone for the 500 years before Mohammed was born.


1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

GOD IN US


John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


Let alone that it's preposterous to suggest that any "comforter" sent by our God of love, would engage in the imperialistic murder, pillage, plunder, and slaughter of the Islamic First Jihad, let alone sexual enslavement of women taken as spoils of war, or stealing one's own step-son's wife.

[Peter]

[disappeared and restored from database]

Muslims are taught many preposterous notions reagarding Mohammed prophesied in God's Word (other than in the false prophet references). This forum contains a special section devoted specifically to this nonsense: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0'
"Christians are polytheists."
Muslims believe God has a spirit. By the same measure they apply to Christians then:
1+1=2 Muslims are polytheist. Here are related verses from the Quran: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0
GOD'S LOVE:
"Hitler was a Christian" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY
Explain to them the only way they can identify a Christian:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35  BY THIS SHALL ALL [MEN] KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, IF YE HAVE LOVE ONE TO ANOTHER.
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; FOR GOD IS LOVE.
1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth HIM THAT BEGAT loveth HIM also THAT IS BEGOTTEN of him.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:  30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mark 12:31...Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
1 John 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Islam's answer:
“The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until you make war on the Jews, until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree, and the rock or tree will say: Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, here is a Jew behind me, kill him!’”
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, "O Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him." (video) Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 - Sunna: Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985) USC had to remove this "inspired"

THE BLOOD OF JESUS:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Mat 26:28 For this is MY BLOOD of the new testament, which is SHED FOR MANY for the remission of sins.
Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and WITHOUT SHEDDING OF BLOOD IS NO REMISSION.
Eye witnesses:
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and GAVE UP THE GHOST, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he GAVE UP THE GHOST.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and GAVE UP THE GHOST.
Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
ISLAM'S ANSWER 5 CENTURIES AFTER THE EYE WITNESSES:
Surah 4:157 "That they said (in boast), WE KILLED CHRIST Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah" - BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

GOD'S SON
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], THOU ART MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
Luk 3:22 ...and a voice came from heaven, which said, THOU ART MY BELOVED SON; in thee I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is MY BELOVED SON, in whom I am well pleased.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that THIS IS THE SON OF GOD.      
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself THE SON OF GOD.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.   
1John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth HIM THAT BEGAT loveth HIM also THAT IS BEGOTTEN of him.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jo 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because he BELIEVETH NOT the record THAT GOD GAVE OF HIS SON.
Hebrews 10:29 Of HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, wherewith he was sanctified, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave of his Son.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, EVEN DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM, AND BRING UPON THEMSELVES SWIFT DESTRUCTION.   
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.
Old Testament Father-Son prophecy:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us A SON IS GIVEN: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and HIS NAME shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
New Testament fulfillment:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. 14 And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Old Testament Father-Son prophecy:
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
New Testament fulfillment:
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

BEGOTTEN:
While the bible references sons of God, there is only ONE - THE Son of God. 47 verses in the KJV use the term "the Son of God" in reference to Jesus. A plethora of others refer to Jesus simply as THE Son. This is because He is THE ONLY BEGOTTEN of God.

begat
1. To father; sire. 2. TO CAUSE TO EXIST OR OCCUR; produce: Violence begets more violence.
Who caused Jesus to exist? Muslims even admit that Jesus was uniquely made by God, yet must deny the obvious because of the turn of a verse.

Verses with the term begotten: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.0

ISLAM'S ANSWER:
Surah 9.30 THE JEWS CALL ‘UZAIR A SON OF GOD, AND THE CHRISTIANS CALL CHRIST THE SON OF GOD. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. GOD’S CURSE BE ON THEM: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Surah 9.30 THE JEWS CALL ‘UZAIR A SON OF GOD, AND THE CHRISTIANS CALL CHRIST THE SON OF GOD..... GOD’S CURSE BE ON THEM: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious HAS BEGOTTEN A SON!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!
Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! 90 At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, 91 That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious.
AND SO THAT SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST:
1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
SPIRIT OF GOD:
Old Testament Spirit of God:
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.
Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the SPIRIT OF GOD, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,   
New testament fulfillment see next post.

IN ISLAM:
You will rarely get a Muslim to admit that God has a Spirit, even though they believe that He does.<br />Muslims even call Jesus Ruhullah, which means Spirit of God. The reason they can't admit to believing that God has a spirit is that it exposes their obvious hypocrisy since, by the same measure they accuse Christians, it would make them polytheist. Believing in 2 gods.
Sura 38:72 "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of MY SPIRIT, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

ONE GOD:
Mark 12...Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord 32 ... for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him:
John 10:30 I AND [MY] FATHER ARE ONE. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because HE MADE HIMSELF THE SON OF GOD.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Jesus even told Satan He was God when Satan tempted Him:
Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, THOU SHALT NOT TEMPT THE LORD THY GOD.
   

[Peter]

Post by gmcjetpilot have been split off an moved to it's own thread: http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=332.0

Regarding combat, a section has been added to the forum to address the nonsensical lies Muslims are taught regarding the bible and particularly Mohammed in the bible:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0

[Mike S]

Brother Pete, is there any particular order of presentation of these tracts that seems to work best when we take the initiative and breach the subject for the first time, or does it simply depend on the direction of the conversation between me and my Muslim friend? I think I just answered my own question, so maybe I need to rephrase it to : Is there a praticular tract I should use to start a dialogue with my Muslim friend?   

[Peter]

Brother Pete, is there any particular order of presentation of these tracts that seems to work best when we take the initiative and breach the subject for the first time, or does it simply depend on the direction of the conversation between me and my Muslim friend?

Hi Mike S and welcome to the forum!
Let me preface by letting you know I have had no one-on-one contact with a Muslim in person.
Also I wrote this thread last December and have learned a lot (from conversations with Muslims) since then. I will likely keep embellishing this post or adding more.
You might be able to get a sense of the kinds of things going on in your friend's head, or what you might be able to expect, by reading a few of the "copy and pasted chats with Muslims".
Most of my conversations are with Muslims like in YouTube and here that have already been trying feebly to defend Mohammed's 7th century religion for some time.

Without a doubt I would let the conversation go where it may, and maybe, if possible, let him lead. Let him know that the best answers aren't always spontaneous ones and some may take you a little study or research.

I would guess that it will begin with him saying he worships one God. You can assure him that Christians do too. You can confirm this first with
Mark 12:29 ... The Lord our God is one Lord: ... 32 ... for there is one God; and there is none other but he:  
 
If he insists that Christians don't worship one God, then ask him if Islam teaches that God has a Spirit, which he will likely readily agree with, because of the Quran (have the verse available):

Sura 38:72 "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of MY SPIRIT, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

If he has been presented with this discussion before he will likely dance all around the truth, rather than give you an answer. If he simply says yes (as he should because that's what the Quran teaches), then ask him why he believes that God's Spirit is a separate God when measuring Christians, but is a part of God when he measures Muslims or Jews.

I would try to leave it there for a little bit if possible. The first thing he should realize on his own, is that he has been lied to about what Christians believe, since you will have already merged 2 parts of the "trinity" into one, and he can see there is no such thing as a "trinitarian" in the manner he has been taught (worshipping 3 gods) through the false teachings of his imam via Mohammed. This may start the first few sparks of cognitive dissonance.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=708.0

It seems the only things Muslims know about Christianity or the Gospel are what their imams teach them. For most (at least in the west) that would seem the only source they have for their info on Islam as well (though to a lesser extent than Christians not reading the bible I am sad to say!)

For example, Ahmed Deedat made up his own bible verse to deceive Muslims into believing they are not antichrist. Because he said it, they believe it because they don't even check his verse against scripture. Deedat hybridizes 2 verses to create his own concoction, which even then, is a test of spirits rather than persons.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=335.0

Showing them they were so sorely deceived, and then showing them the correct verse, not only shows them Deedat was a liar, but that according to the Gospel, Mohammed, Deedat, and themselves are also antichrist.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/m1a.pdf

Might be best to start with this one has only bible verses that declare Jesus the Son of God, that contain no other written subject matter:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/m4.pdf

Then if he tries to give you the "corruption" of the bible nonsense be prepared with what his own prophet said about "the book" in the 7th century.
http://www.petewaldo.com/mohammeds_conundrum.htm
Those verses are very embarrassing to Muslims because they come from Mohammed's early days in Mecca, before he was exiled and became violent. Like the "no compulsion" verse that you are familiar with. The fact is that Muslims have to believe those verses to be abrogated by the later violent verses because they have to believe in "progressive revelation" (imagine that, by a single man, and over a period of just 23 years!)

I think I just answered my own question, so maybe I need to rephrase it to : Is there a praticular tract I should use to start a dialogue with my Muslim friend?  

I would try the Q&A I mentioned first and gradually move into the tracts.

I also have instructions for making your own tracts by copy and pasting from scripture or tracts, and if you like only some parts or want to edit.
http://www.petewaldo.com/free_tracts.htm#make_your_own

I would try the "Do you Love Jesus Tract" after some ice breaking. This one guides him to the Islam and the Truth site that is more geared toward bringing the Gospel to Muslims.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/m1a.pdf

[Peter]

Also this math PDF if the guy is into numbers, but it does finger Islam as the beast. Might be better for later:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/c4.pdf

[jimi]

Your "Combat Kit" is flattering Ahmed Deedat who published a pamphlet with the same title:
http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/Books/Books/ck/index.html

I don't agree with Ahmed Deedat but I understand why he has resorted to such a strong approach towards those who insult and slander others.

They asked if Muhammad was the anti-Christ: Satan's Anti-Christ 666 : Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nA_-h2uuSA

This is advise that we had better consider: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. "
Matthew 7.1-6, also Luke 6.37

[resistingrexmundi]

It isn't slander to tell the truth. It is only slander if a lie or half-truth is told to demonize someone's behaviour or character. To state a clear fact as an indictment of one's behaviour is using discernment. Muhammad's character is a witness against him and anyone with a discerning mind would know to keep away from him and warn others to do so.

Hbr 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

discern
1) a distinguishing, discerning, judging


Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
 
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

The judgment that Jesus was referring to in these verses is of the nature of a hypocrite. I don't know about you, but I have never killed anyone, raped anyone or tortured anyone. So in regards to those things I don't have to worry about that splinter in my eye. Muhammad is guilty of all those things. While I don't claim to be perfect I serve one who is and will forgive me my sins. Muhammad had no regret for the atrocities he committed and felt no need to repent or if he did it isn't born out in his message. It is ironic that you quote verses from a book that is at such odds with what Muhammad taught as though it would do anything but weaken Muhammad's case. Muhammad was not only judgmental in the worst way, holding others to oaths when he himself felt no problem breaking one of his out of conveniece, but he was the epitome of hypocricy.

judge

1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
a) to dispute
b) in a forensic sense
1) to go to law, have suit at law

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
 
I am not entirely sure what you are trying to convey with this verse. I know what it means but I wonder if you realize the possible implication of what you are saying. This verse was to tell the followers of Jesus that those who show themselves unworthy of the Gospel were not to be shown anymore until they came with an open mind and an open heart. Often times when people are confronted with the truth they become hostile. Hence the warning at the end of the verse. What is the subject you are considering holy? Who are the swine you are inferring from this verse? If this is advice for us all then who has the pearls and who is the swine? Please clarify.

[jimi]

I am not entirely sure what you are trying to convey with this verse... Please clarify.

If you would watch the video you might understand...

[resistingrexmundi]

I have a hard time watching videos from youtube because I cannot get hi speed. Perhaps you could give me the gist.

[Peter]

I am not entirely sure what you are trying to convey with this verse... Please clarify.

If you would watch the video you might understand...

Somehow I missed this thread when it was active. I had noticed the recommended video long before jimi came along and composed a video response to it on December 30, 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDslsWDzPIc

[Peter]

For my Christian friends, we really have to feel sorry for these poor folks in light of what what they have have now learned. Put yourself in their shoes.
What if you had just learned, that there was not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence, that demonstrates that Jerusalem ever existed, before the 4th century AD?
Well they have now learned that Mecca did not exist before the 4th century AD, and certainly not before the Christian era, and so everything they believe has just gone up in smoke through that one simple MATTER OF FACT.
We should hardly be surprised that their wheels are spinning off.
watch?v=LWCiNKxVsrE
For a free PDF tract that summarizes this subject. Click the link on the video or use this
brotherpete. com/m20. pdf  


Even though the complete absence of any historical or archaeological record of Mecca ever having existed, before the pagans built Mecca in the 4th century and their Kaaba in the 5th century, proving that Mohammedanism is IN FACT nothing more than a foolish fraud, Mohammedans still reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses, as revealed through the 1600 year record of God to mankind that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years, to instead follow the 23 year, 7th century record, of A SINGLE, illiterate, pillaging, plundering, murdering, child doing, prisoner raping, stepson's only wife stealing, sex slave prostituting, concubine fornicating, lying, cheating, blood drenched, imperialistic, conquering, terrorist, thief. A man, and book that are THE EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ as revealed in the New Testament. Isn't that peculiar?
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=336.0


Tragically Muslims MUST REJECT ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed through God's 1600 year record, to follow Mohammed. They bow toward and circumambulate the pagan moon god stone idol, that the pagans bowed toward and circumambulated, before Mohammed, demonstrating that Mohammedanism is nothing more than repackaged pagan moon god worship, which is also evidenced by the crescent moons on the tops of their mosques, crescent moons on Muslim flags, and fasting during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky. Even the favorite scream of Mohammedan suicide murderers "ALLAHU AKBAR" gives it away.
As the Muslims well know, ALLAHU AKBAR means "Allah is the greatEST". That was Mohammed's declaration, as well as centuries of Arabian Star Family worshippers who believed that the moon god was the most powerful of all of their pagan gods. All to follow a 7th century reprobate, wherein their own books reveal him to be perhaps the most consummate terrorist in world history.


"The stone was considered the main shrine, or sacred element, in each temple, called Kaabah in Arabic. This revered stone, which represented the moon, was considered to be divine. The worship of the Arabian Star Family with Allah, who was the moon as its head, revolved around the black stone. Ellat, Allahs wife, was the sun, and al-'Uzza and Manat, his daughters, represented two planets."
watch?v=LWCiNKxVsrE

Our Muslim friends should recognize those names from
Surah 53:18-20 "For truly did he see,? the signs of his Lord, the greatest! Have ye seen Lat, and Uzza, and another, the third [goddess] Manat?
In other words Mohammed kept the moon god allah, and the black stone idol that represented him, and threw the rest of allah's family out.


Salat is pure unadulterated paganism.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they? think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.


To my Christian friends, isn't that tragic? The only historical or archaeological evidence Muslims bring, to show that Mecca was the center of Islam for the 1500 years before Mohammed, is a single 18th century author's misunderstanding of an early writer, who actually wrote about one of the many Kaabas in Arabia - that specific one being a temple close to Ilat in the Aqaba gulf area belonging to a tribe called Batmizomaneis. The Quran attests that even Mohammed's own tribe the Quraish went on pilgrimage twice a year, demonstrating the insignificance of the Kaaba in Mecca. Gibbons even began that same passage with "I am ignorant, and I am careless, of the blind mythology of the Barbarians..."
Please view the links in this video "more info" section for much more.
watch?v=LWCiNKxVsrE
Gibbons is covered in this forum thread
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=1121.0


Here are the Arabian deities and worship that Gibbons describes in that same passage
".... of blind mythology of barbarians - of the local deities, of the stars, the air, and the earth, of their sex or titles, their attributes or subordination...."
Isn't that hilarious? Muslims only "proof" describes pilgrimage to worship the Arabian Star Family!

The moon god rock Muslims bow toward and circumambulate today, is just one, of the very same ones, that the pagans circumambulated before Mohammed, throughout Arabia.
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=1084.0


"Ibn Abbas, the cousin of Mohammed, and one of the reporters of the tradition of Mohammed, called Hadith, speaks of two pilgrimages of the Quraish tribe. One of the journeys was to the city of Taif.[1]

At Taif there was also a temple called Kaabah of Ellat, or Kaabah of the Sun. This Kaabah was more? significant and much older than the Kaabah of Mecca. All Arabs, including the tribe of Quraish from which Mohammed came, venerated this Kaabah. The Kaabah of Taif was identical to the Kaabah of Mecca, and it had the same religious functions."
watch?v=LWCiNKxVsrE


Mohammedanism is nothing more than repackaged pagan moon god worship, which is also evidenced by the crescent moons on the tops of their mosques, crescent moons on Muslim flags, fasting during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky, and even the favorite scream of Mohammedan suicide murderers "ALLAHU AKBAR" gives it away.
As the Muslims well know, ALLAHU AKBAR means "Allah is the greatEST". That was Mohammed's declaration, as well as centuries of Arabic moon god worshippers belief, that the moon god was the most powerful of all of their pagan gods.


...the black stone, which was the main element of worship in all Kaabahs of Arabia, was brought [to Mecca] from another area most probable Yemen toward the end of the 5th century A.D.

Asad Abu Karb was the True Builder of Kaabah in the Beginning of the 5th century A.D.

It is said that prior to the construction of the Kaabah, a tent existed on? the spot where it was built.[ii][2] The tribe of Khuzaa'h came from Yemen around the 2nd century A.D. In the 4th century A.D., they moved toward the area where Mecca was eventually built. Since they didnt find a temple there in which to worship, they pitched their tent in a field.


All of the theological arguments against Islam become are rendered unnecessary once we discover that Mecca did not even exist before the 4th century AD. There is no sense in arguing against a religion that is A HISTORICALLY CONFIRMED IMPOSSIBILITY, and that was demonstrably AS A MATTER OF FACT invented by A SINGLE, 7th century, illiterate, pillaging, plundering, murdering, child doing, prisoner raping, stepson's only wife stealing, sex slave prostituting, concubine fornicating, lying, cheating, blood drenched, imperialistic, conquering, terrorist, thief. A man, and book that are THE EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus and the New Testament."
I support each of those charges here, through the Mohammedans own books.
brotherpete. com/index. php?topic=336.0

[Peter]

I would request that all Christians go on YouTube or in Muslim forums and include elements of the following question in your own words. I am finding that I am blocked in short order when I ask this embarrassing question. This question is not only unanswerable, but absent and answer, Mecca, their rituals of Hajj and Umrah etc. etc., can only be seen as the repackaged jinn devil worship and Arabian Star Family worship rituals, that they are.


How did Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael wander from Hebron (or Beersheba where Hagar and Ishmael actually wandered) to Mecca, across a thousand kilometers of (at that time) uninhabited, unexplored, unknown, barren, desolate desert wasteland, about 900 years before the first caravan route was ever established along the Red Sea, only to take up residence in one of the harshest desert environments, that even Arabia has to offer?


If they try to obfuscate by feebly throwing out a reference to the new location of Mt. Sinai at Jabal al-Lawz, it has nothing to do with the question, and you can still point out that even the new location they choose for Mt. Sinai, is still 1000 kilometers north of Mecca.

[Peter]

Ran across this site today from the UK. Only glanced over it but it appears experienced and sound.
http://www.ukmce.com/witnessing/sharing-the-gospel-with-muslim-people/?inAdmin=1