Author Topic: Why Do 1.5 Billion People Follow Mohammed? (split off "Love Neighbor"- retitled)  (Read 25700 times)

Mujaheed

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Question: How many Muslims are there in the World today and and how many men did it take to Start the conversion to reach 1,8 billion? While billions of people (Atheist) still don't believe in ALLAH (al_illaah- THE GOD).  Many more claim to believe but do not even know or care to know about revealed scripture. The system that is dominating the world is the religion of Capitalism (you call it social freedom) I call it creating a place where a human being can live like the animals do, eat what they want, kill and eat what they want, fornicate and promote fornication at every level, display sex in adverts, promote free sex in colleges, free sex on the internet, exploitation, wine, woman song, (Sodom and Ghomorrah ring a bell) Freedom of sex choices and widespread ignorance of the laws as prescribed in the revealed scriptures. One religion that actively discards the laws is Christianity, The Holy SPIRIT will guide you. Well you need to make your spirit holy before it guides you to holiness. These videos lack inspiration, they are sad stories of obviously GOD_less individuals that came from nothing and are now reading the Bible (well at least it is the first step). I cant believe I wasted my time watching them.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 11:51:40 AM by Peter »

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2010, 04:46:22 PM »
Question: How many Muslims are there in the World today and and how many men did it take to Start the conversion to reach 1,8 billion?

1 man. However in the first 13 years of Islam Mohammed was barely able to gain 100 converts. Then he left Mecca for Medina. As you know when he returned to Mecca with the two bandit tribes he enlisted in Medina he threatened the Quraish into submission to a religion that they wanted nothing to do with. After that it was easy for Mohammed and his follow murdering, prisoner raping, thieves to convert all of Arabia in short order, through the threat of the pain of death. However slavery was perhaps the most effective tool for spreading Islam, since if the first generation captive didn't go for it, their children would likely be indoctrinated into it successfully. Muslims "converted" through murdere, rape, pillage and plunder all the way up to Tours France, and Vienna Austria, during the first jihad.

How many men did it take to start CHRISTianity? 1 man - Jesus the CHRIST - the Messiah. He gained converts by manifesting God's love. A perfect and sinless example sent as an example for all mankind to follow.

God's name is YHWH as it occurs in scripture nearly 7,000 times. I means "I AM".
The Hebrew name for the Messiah is "Yeshua" which means "YHWH saves" or "delivers" or "rescues".

What do you suppose the Messiah saves us from? How does He deliver or rescue us?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1728.0

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2010, 04:47:20 PM »
While billions of people (Atheist) still don't believe in ALLAH (al_illaah- THE GOD).

I don't believe in a god NAMED "Allah" either (though I am aware that Arabic speaking Christians use it as a generic TERM for God).
I believe in the one true God NAMED "YHWH".

Many more claim to believe but do not even know or care to know about revealed scripture. The system that is dominating the world is the religion of Capitalism (you call it social freedom) I call it creating a place where a human being can live like the animals do, eat what they want, kill and eat what they want, fornicate and promote fornication at every level, display sex in adverts, promote free sex in colleges, free sex on the internet, exploitation, wine, woman song, (Sodom and Ghomorrah ring a bell) Freedom of sex choices and widespread ignorance of the laws as prescribed in the revealed scriptures.

Islam and Sharia law punish people for crimes that only result in those individuals personal destruction - in this world and the next. Men that suffer under a false delusion of self-righteousness, attempting to modify the behavior, of other men that are often more righteous. But all cutting off the hand of a thief does, for example, is harden his heart and fill him with hatred, further assuring his eternal destruction.
Most folks in civil societies appreciate the freedom to do as they choose whether it is self-destructive or not. Why don't you want to trust God to sort us out?

When a person receives Yeshua, the Messiah dwells within him - indewells - through the Holy Spirit. Through that relationship a Christian becomes evermore sanctified, and strives evermore to be like Jesus Christ, and grows farther and farther away from the ills of this world that you detail. Indeed when a person's heart is changed - when they are "born again" - they leave this world and enter the kingdom of God.

Perhaps the best summary of this is subject of judgment of men, of other men, was illustrated when an adulteress came to Jesus. The thread also details what Mohammed did in the same circumstance.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.0

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2010, 05:04:13 PM »
One religion that actively discards the laws is Christianity, .......

This from someone whose Sabbath is on Friday.

..... The Holy SPIRIT will guide you. Well you need to make your spirit holy before it guides you to holiness.

The Holy Spirit simply IS.
One is either indewelled by it or not. As long as you put your effort into MISunderstanding you will not be able to understand the things of the Spirit. That's why you are bewildered by the videos of your former brethren.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man  receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Why don't you appeal directly to Jesus Christ? The man that even you would likely agree was the only man in human history to be conceived by a virgin by the will of God. A man that many Muslims believe never sinned. A man whose body you agree, does not lie in an earthly grave, but was raised directly to God.
All that while Mohammed's corpse still lies rotting in it's shallow grave.

These videos lack inspiration, they are sad stories of obviously GOD_less individuals that came from nothing and are now reading the Bible (well at least it is the first step). I cant believe I wasted my time watching them.

Why don't you try reading the Bible instead of watching videos?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

I would like to split both of your posts off of these topics and merge them into a single original thread since they didn't have a lot to do with the threads you posted them on.

Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2010, 06:26:58 PM »
While billions of people (Atheist) still don't believe in ALLAH (al_illaah- THE GOD).

I don't believe in a god NAMED "Allah" either (though I am aware that Arabic speaking Christians use it as a generic TERM for God).
I believe in the one true God NAMED "YHWH".

Many more claim to believe but do not even know or care to know about revealed scripture. The system that is dominating the world is the religion of Capitalism (you call it social freedom) I call it creating a place where a human being can live like the animals do, eat what they want, kill and eat what they want, fornicate and promote fornication at every level, display sex in adverts, promote free sex in colleges, free sex on the internet, exploitation, wine, woman song, (Sodom and Ghomorrah ring a bell) Freedom of sex choices and widespread ignorance of the laws as prescribed in the revealed scriptures.

Islam and Sharia law punish people for crimes that only result in those individuals personal destruction - in this world and the next. Men that suffer under a false delusion of self-righteousness, attempting to modify the behavior, of other men that are often more righteous. But all cutting off the hand of a thief does, for example, is harden his heart and fill him with hatred, further assuring his eternal destruction.
Most folks in civil societies appreciate the freedom to do as they choose whether it is self-destructive or not. Why don't you want to trust God to sort us out?

When a person receives Yeshua, the Messiah dwells within him - indewells - through the Holy Spirit. Through that relationship a Christian becomes evermore sanctified, and strives evermore to be like Jesus Christ, and grows farther and farther away from the ills of this world that you detail. Indeed when a person's heart is changed - when they are "born again" - they leave this world and enter the kingdom of God.

Perhaps the best summary of this is subject of judgment of men, of other men, was illustrated when an adulteress came to Jesus. The thread also details what Mohammed did in the same circumstance.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.0

Your explanation makes absolutely no sense and and sounds very Pagan, almost Hindu, when you reach enlightenment your karma changes and the god (spirit within) is awakened and all your actions will be aligned to the natural order. That is a truly pagan concept of worship and contradicts every single prophet that came before Jesus and after.

How can you not believe in the ALLAH of Jesus (may ALLAH bestow peace upon him), What does Eli Eli sabachtani mean to you does Ielaah Ielaah mean MY ALLAH and what do mean when you say you do not believe in the Ielaah of Jesus are you an Atheist?
By the way Jesus was not a Christian he was incorrectly referred to as Christos (the annointed One) and it later became a derogatory term Christian, like a nickname that stuck with constant repetition in reference to those that follow the the annointed One.

But Can Followers of a Hebrew Come in a Greek Name?

And since the twelve Apostles and followers of the Messiah were Hebrew, wouldn’t they come in His name, Yahshua, and not the Greek title Christ? The Messiah told them at His ascension to preach in His name in Matt. 28:19 -20: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father (Yahweh), and of the Son (Elohim), and of the Holy Ghost (Yahshua - Jn. 14:26): Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."

Now historical documents show and prove that the followers of the Messiah didn’t call themselves Christians. The Greek word Christian appears in the so-called New Testament three times Acts 11:26, 26:28; and 1 Pet. 4:16. Christian is a title and not a proper name. Originally Romans or Gentiles gave the followers of the Messiah the name Christians and Mystery Babylon accepted it as the title the followers of the Messiah used for themselves.
 Does 'Christian' Come from 'Christos' Which Means Anointed?

It must be understood by students of the scriptures that the Greek word Christian is derived from the Greek word Christos, which means anointed. The word 'Christos 'was in existence long before the birth of the Messiah. It is important to understand the context in which this word was used in everyday life prior to it being associated with the Messiah.

The Roman Catholic book The Names and Titles of Jesus, by Leopold Sabourin, S.J.; Imprimatur, by Terence J. Cooke, D.D., V.G., (copyright 1967, by The Macmillian Co.), pg. 5; states: "Strictly speaking, the term Messiah is equivalent to "Christ" because the Hebrew word Mashiah or "Anointed [of the Lord}" is translated by the Greek Khristos."

The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology (H.W. Wilson) under Christ, pg. 169 states: " ... borrowed from Latin Christus, from Greek Christos, noun use of christos anointed, from chriein anoint ... The Greek is a translation of the Hebrew Mashiah anointed (of the Lord), MESSIAH ... "

Does 'Christos' Mean 'Messiah'?

''Both of the preceding quotes said that the Greek word 'Christos' is equivalent to the Greek word Messiah, that is a translation of the Hebrew word Mashiah. This is not true. 'Mashiah' is a Hebrew word that means the "Anointed of Yah" and not the "Anointed of the Lord." In Hebrew the iah in the word Messiah is Yah, the short form of Yahweh. Most biblical scholars make a great mistake and error in equating the Greek word 'Christos' with the Hebrew word Messiah. The Greeks have no word or equivalent to mean Yah or Yahweh which means: "He who brings into existence whatever exists." For example in English there is no equivalent word for Bethlehem, the Hebrew word which means 'house of bread.' So, the word has to be translated and pronounced as it is in the original tongue or language. As most translators know all proper nouns of cities, places, and names are pronounced and transliterated as they are in their own language when translated to another language.
reference http://www.plim.org/92didu.html

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2010, 07:31:10 PM »
While billions of people (Atheist) still don't believe in ALLAH (al_illaah- THE GOD).

I don't believe in a god NAMED "Allah" either (though I am aware that Arabic speaking Christians use it as a generic TERM for God).
I believe in the one true God NAMED "YHWH".

Many more claim to believe but do not even know or care to know about revealed scripture. The system that is dominating the world is the religion of Capitalism (you call it social freedom) I call it creating a place where a human being can live like the animals do, eat what they want, kill and eat what they want, fornicate and promote fornication at every level, display sex in adverts, promote free sex in colleges, free sex on the internet, exploitation, wine, woman song, (Sodom and Ghomorrah ring a bell) Freedom of sex choices and widespread ignorance of the laws as prescribed in the revealed scriptures.

Islam and Sharia law punish people for crimes that only result in those individuals personal destruction - in this world and the next. Men that suffer under a false delusion of self-righteousness, attempting to modify the behavior, of other men that are often more righteous. But all cutting off the hand of a thief does, for example, is harden his heart and fill him with hatred, further assuring his eternal destruction.
Most folks in civil societies appreciate the freedom to do as they choose whether it is self-destructive or not. Why don't you want to trust God to sort us out?

When a person receives Yeshua, the Messiah dwells within him - indewells - through the Holy Spirit. Through that relationship a Christian becomes evermore sanctified, and strives evermore to be like Jesus Christ, and grows farther and farther away from the ills of this world that you detail. Indeed when a person's heart is changed - when they are "born again" - they leave this world and enter the kingdom of God.

Perhaps the best summary of this is subject of judgment of men, of other men, was illustrated when an adulteress came to Jesus. The thread also details what Mohammed did in the same circumstance.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.0

Your explanation makes absolutely no sense and and sounds very Pagan, almost Hindu, when you reach enlightenment your karma changes and the god (spirit within) is awakened and all your actions will be aligned to the natural order.

It sounds that way to you because these are things of the Spirit. I already explained why you can't understand. And unless you repent you never will. Let's try an example.

"Righteous" Islamic police sent some girls back into a burning school building, because they had the nerve to try to escape the flames, by emerging from the building without wearing head coverings. 15 of the girls were killed when they were sent back in.
So what we see is that the perfectly innocent young girls, were killed by their absolutely reprobate judges - filthy Godless men.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=855.0

Can you see how the girls were innocent, while their "righteous" judges were absolute reprobates?

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2010, 07:46:52 PM »
How can you not believe in the ALLAH .....

Because that was the pagan Arabian moon and star god.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

The God of the Christian and Jews name is YHWH which occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture.

If you are having a little trouble wrapping your head around the origins of the name "Allah" this might help.
Are you aware that there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before immigrants from Yemen settled it in the 4th century AD, and built their kaaba for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship in the early 5th century?

Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2010, 07:46:37 AM »
How can you not believe in the ALLAH .....

Because that was the pagan Arabian moon and star god.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

The God of the Christian and Jews name is YHWH which occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture.

If you are having a little trouble wrapping your head around the origins of the name "Allah" this might help.
Are you aware that there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before immigrants from Yemen settled it in the 4th century AD, and built their kaaba for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship in the early 5th century?

You are avoiding the topic altogether and regurgitating the same nonsense over and over and over again who cares what you Rafat Amari says about Arabia, who would you believe someone that held the title of the "Truthful one" or a vile speculator that does not believe in the "eli eli sabachtani" of the BIBLE? Wake up man you have been indoctrinated, brainwashed and the same absurd logic comes out in all your answers. You say there is no evidence, you say there is evidence of bible history I have examined the pottery and the speculations and the conclusions and conjecture and assumptions that has very little to do with faith and everything to do with self importance and arrogance. You must decide are you an atheist that needs proof ior are you a believer of what has been revealed through the Prophets of ALLAH.

Your misrepresentation (highly opinionated conclusions about Islam is unfounded and without merit. It is simply a disgruntled christian sounding like he cannot reach the grapes and therefore says it must be sour anyway.

Please stick to the topic, No Muslims has discovered anything in the videos and upon reading the Bible there is evidence from the beginning to end that Islam is the culmination of the Reveal scriptures, The words Elohim (similar to ARahim, ARahmaan, ALLAH_HUM all points to the fact that the word for "THE GOD is Al-IELAAH (ALLAH) from the BIBLE. You make so many assumptions and draw so many conclusions this one is not one you want to admit to and it is really the crux of the matter. The denial of ALLAH as all the Prophets warned against, fought against, resisted the authorities and misguided priests and rabbis for. YaHuwa is Oh' YOU" Yashua (YA EESA) O' Jesus) terms of respect, and it is found throughout the Quran,

Oh you who believe ( ya ayyu halatheena AAMANU)
Oh you who disbelieve (Ya ayyu hal kaafirun)
Oh children of Israel (ya bani Israel)
Oh People of the book (ya ahlul kitaab)

One of the facts of history is that Arabic was used to get a more accurate translation of the bible

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2010, 08:00:24 AM »
How can you not believe in the ALLAH .....

Because that was the pagan Arabian moon and star god.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

The God of the Christian and Jews name is YHWH which occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture.

If you are having a little trouble wrapping your head around the origins of the name "Allah" this might help.
Are you aware that there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before immigrants from Yemen settled it in the 4th century AD, and built their kaaba for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship in the early 5th century?

You are avoiding the topic altogether ........

Not at all. When you post a post with several premises we have to explore them. If you don't want to, I suggest you restrict your posts to one topic. In this case why I don't believe in Mohammed's, or the pagan Arabian's god, NAMED "Allah".
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

......... and regurgitating the same nonsense over and over and over again who cares what you Rafat Amari says about Arabia, .......

If you believe the absence of historical or archaeological evidence regarding Mecca has something to do with Dr. Amari, then all you have to do is bring to bear some evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the Christian era.
Why engage in the typical Islamic tactic of attacking the messenger, to avoid the message?

Tell us how Ishmael made it from Mecca to Hebron across 1200 KM of harsh Arabian desert most of 1000 years before the first caravan route was established along the red sea, in time for his father's burial in Hebron.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca.htm

What you are trying to do is launch off into irrelevant details to avoid fundamentals.
You see, if you cannot find any evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD, then Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion goes right up in smoke.

Even some of Mohammed's closest followers knew that the Arabian rituals he adopted to Islam were nothing more than repackaged pagan jinn-demon worship rituals.

Asem told us that he said to Uns bin Malek, a companion of Mohammed, “You were hating to encompass around the Safa and Marwa.”  He answered, “Yes, because it was one of the pagan rites of Jahiliyah  until Allah gave a verse that the Safa and Marwa are the rites of Allah. If one makes the Hajj to the Kaabah, he must encompass them. The person has no sin when he encompass them. (Sahih al-Bukhari, 2, page 171)
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

The reason that Mohammed's "Allah" "gave a verse" for Mohammed's followers to engage in this ritual, of course, was to appease the two bandit tribes he enlisted in Medina, to attack his people. Those tribes of Medina were heavily involved in this jinn-demon worship.

Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2010, 08:17:40 AM »
How can you not believe in the ALLAH .....

Because that was the pagan Arabian moon and star god.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

The God of the Christian and Jews name is YHWH which occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture.

If you are having a little trouble wrapping your head around the origins of the name "Allah" this might help.
Are you aware that there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before immigrants from Yemen settled it in the 4th century AD, and built their kaaba for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship in the early 5th century?

You are avoiding the topic altogether ........

Not at all. When you post a post with several premises we have to explore them. If you don't want to I suggest you restrict your posts to one topic. In this case why I don't believe in Mohammed's or the pagan Arabian's god NAMED "Allah".

......... and regurgitating the same nonsense over and over and over again who cares what you Rafat Amari says about Arabia, .......

If you believe the absence of historical or archaeological evidence regarding Mecca has to do with Dr. Amari, then all you have to do is bring to bear some evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the Christian era.
What you are trying to do is launch off into irrelevant details to avoid fundamentals.
You see, if you cannot find any evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD, then Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion goes right up in smoke.

Even some of Mohammed's closest followers knew that his adopted were nothing more than repackaged pagan jinn-demon worship rituals.

Asem told us that he said to Uns bin Malek, a companion of Mohammed, “You were hating to encompass around the Safa and Marwa.”  He answered, “Yes, because it was one of the pagan rites of Jahiliyah  until Allah gave a verse that the Safa and Marwa are the rites of Allah. If one makes the Hajj to the Kaabah, he must encompass them. The person has no sin when he encompass them. (Sahih al-Bukhari, 2, page 171)
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

You misunderstand me, I have read Rafat Amari's fiction and conclusions, thank him for his historical account of the temples of Arabia before the advent of Islam, then ask him to please not miss the point, Islam came to replace the incorrect belief of the world. Glorification of any object or human being or anyone born of a woman (virginal or otherwise) is not allowed,hear Ye O' Israel THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE.

MUSLIMS DO NOT WORSHIP THE OBJECTS OR BUILDINGS OR HUMAN BEINGS< THEY MAKE IT VERY CLEAR (THE GOD) AL_IELAAH (ALLAH THE MOST MERCIFUL THE MOST BENEFICENT IS WHOM THEY WORSHIP. None other but the GOD OF ADAM, ABRAHAM< MOSES< AARON,DAVID, SoLOMON, JESUS and Muhammad and all the Prophets of ALLAH.

You are not an expert and neither is Rafat Amari and your word is not acceptable, it is nothing but conjecture and there is nothing to ignore or present to you. You either believe the Quran or you don't, You either believe the BIBLE or twist the meaning to suit your own interpretations regarding the Scriptures. I cannot believe that you have such bad manners and call yourself a follower of Jesus, YOU DONT SPEAK HIS WORDS< YOU SPEW THE CONCLUSIONS OF OTHERS, YOU RESOUGHT TO DEFAMING NOBLE CHARACTERS AND YOU IGNORE THE SOURCE OF KNOWLEDGE THE SCRIPTURES>

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2010, 09:16:37 AM »
You misunderstand me, I have read Rafat Amari's fiction and conclusions, thank him for his historical account of the temples of Arabia before the advent of Islam, ......

The Kaaba in Mecca having been built just like the other pagan kaabas, for moon, sun, star and demon worship.

....... then ask him to please not miss the point, .........

The point is that Mecca did not exist before the 4th century AD. The Kaaba not before pagan immigrants from Yemen built it in the early 5th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1133.0

If you are going to refute that you are going to need to bring some historical and archaeological evidence to the contrary.
You are going to have to explain how Ishmael traveled the 1200 KM in time for Abraham's burial.
But you ignore the request because there is no explanation for that, any more than there is a history of Mecca, before the 4th century AD.

........ Islam came to replace the incorrect belief of the world.

Sorry my friend, but Satan inspired Islam to reject the Gospel - to blaspheme the God of the Bible and His people - to reject all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in scripture - through A SINGLE, STAND-ALONE, 7th century "prophet" that came along 500 years after God's record was closed.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

One must choose.

Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2010, 09:19:48 AM »
You misunderstand me, I have read Rafat Amari's fiction and conclusions, thank him for his historical account of the temples of Arabia before the advent of Islam, ......

The Kaaba in Mecca having been built just like the other pagan kaabas, for moon, sun, star and demon worship.

....... then ask him to please not miss the point, .........

The point is that Mecca did not exist before the 4th century AD. The Kaaba not before pagan immigrants from Yemen built it in the early 5th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1133.0

If you are going to refute that you are going to need to bring some historical and archaeological evidence to the contrary.
You are going to have to explain how Ishmael traveled the 1200 KM in time for Abraham's burial.
But you ignore the request because there is no explanation for that, any more than there is a history of Mecca, before the 4th century AD.

........ Islam came to replace the incorrect belief of the world.

Sorry my friend, but Islam came to reject the Gospel - to blaspheme the God of the Bible and His people - through A SINGLE, STAND-ALONE, 7th century "prophet".

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

I am running out of time
I will come back to this thread and keep in mind the original topic.

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2010, 09:58:29 AM »
I am running out of time
I will come back to this thread and keep in mind the original topic.

You don't need to announce that in the future. We all have lives. If someone stops posting we automatically presume that other business came up. My advice break the posts up into smaller pieces.

Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2010, 02:24:14 PM »
How can you not believe in the ALLAH .....

Because that was the pagan Arabian moon and star god.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

The God of the Christian and Jews name is YHWH which occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture.

If you are having a little trouble wrapping your head around the origins of the name "Allah" this might help.
Are you aware that there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before immigrants from Yemen settled it in the 4th century AD, and built their kaaba for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship in the early 5th century?

You are avoiding the topic altogether ........

Not at all. When you post a post with several premises we have to explore them. If you don't want to, I suggest you restrict your posts to one topic. In this case why I don't believe in Mohammed's, or the pagan Arabian's god, NAMED "Allah".
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

......... and regurgitating the same nonsense over and over and over again who cares what you Rafat Amari says about Arabia, .......

If you believe the absence of historical or archaeological evidence regarding Mecca has something to do with Dr. Amari, then all you have to do is bring to bear some evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the Christian era.
Why engage in the typical Islamic tactic of attacking the messenger, to avoid the message?

Tell us how Ishmael made it from Mecca to Hebron across 1200 KM of harsh Arabian desert most of 1000 years before the first caravan route was established along the red sea, in time for his father's burial in Hebron.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca.htm

What you are trying to do is launch off into irrelevant details to avoid fundamentals.
You see, if you cannot find any evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD, then Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion goes right up in smoke.

Even some of Mohammed's closest followers knew that the Arabian rituals he adopted to Islam were nothing more than repackaged pagan jinn-demon worship rituals.

Asem told us that he said to Uns bin Malek, a companion of Mohammed, “You were hating to encompass around the Safa and Marwa.”  He answered, “Yes, because it was one of the pagan rites of Jahiliyah  until Allah gave a verse that the Safa and Marwa are the rites of Allah. If one makes the Hajj to the Kaabah, he must encompass them. The person has no sin when he encompass them. (Sahih al-Bukhari, 2, page 171)
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

The reason that Mohammed's "Allah" "gave a verse" for Mohammed's followers to engage in this ritual, of course, was to appease the two bandit tribes he enlisted in Medina, to attack his people. Those tribes of Medina were heavily involved in this jinn-demon worship.


AGAIN THE CONFUSION OF PREISLAM WITH ISLAM, what is this obsession you have with pagan worship, it feels like you have read more of the preislamic (ignorant period than you have of the Islamic period). ALL MUSLIMS KNOW ABOUT THE JAHILIYYAH PERIOD< THE PAGAN WORSHIP PERIOD, and how it infiltrated the teachings of the Prophets through the Romans and translators of the BIBLE. OSIRIS -Virgin birth and chastity amongst the woman,came frome pagan EGYPT and practiced during the time the bible was being compiled in Rome,  MITHRA the religion of the Roman Soldier, born on the 25 of December, death and resurrection, and the main topic, discard the law of GOD as given to MOSES. If you leave out one dot of the law you will be the least in the kingdom of heaven. Most choose not to even learn the Laws of GOD, they instead choose the LAW OF THE LAND,

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2010, 03:21:29 PM »
My interest is in a PRE 4TH CENTURY MECCA. Please show me the evidence of one. Without any evidence that this epicenter of Mohammed's religion supposedly since Adam existed, Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion is exposed as nothing more than repackaged pagan Arabian worship. You can save yourself the rest of your support for Mohammed and his "Allah" - and rejection of the God of the Jews and Christians as revealed through His 1600 year record.

Compare that absence of evidence, with the historical and archaeological evidence of Jerusalem.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

You missed the following in your reply. Why not try it now.

......... and regurgitating the same nonsense over and over and over again who cares what you Rafat Amari says about Arabia, .......

If you believe the absence of historical or archaeological evidence regarding Mecca has something to do with Dr. Amari, then all you have to do is bring to bear some evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the Christian era.
Why engage in the typical Islamic tactic of attacking the messenger, to avoid the message?

Tell us how Ishmael made it from Mecca to Hebron across 1200 KM of harsh Arabian desert most of 1000 years before the first caravan route was established along the red sea, in time for his father's burial in Hebron.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca.htm


Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2010, 03:17:16 AM »
My interest is in a PRE 4TH CENTURY MECCA. Please show me the evidence of one. Without any evidence that this epicenter of Mohammed's religion supposedly since Adam existed, Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion is exposed as nothing more than repackaged pagan Arabian worship. You can save yourself the rest of your support for Mohammed and his "Allah" - and rejection of the God of the Jews and Christians as revealed through His 1600 year record.

Compare that absence of evidence, with the historical and archaeological evidence of Jerusalem.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

You missed the following in your reply. Why not try it now.

......... and regurgitating the same nonsense over and over and over again who cares what you Rafat Amari says about Arabia, .......

If you believe the absence of historical or archaeological evidence regarding Mecca has something to do with Dr. Amari, then all you have to do is bring to bear some evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the Christian era.
Why engage in the typical Islamic tactic of attacking the messenger, to avoid the message?

Tell us how Ishmael made it from Mecca to Hebron across 1200 KM of harsh Arabian desert most of 1000 years before the first caravan route was established along the red sea, in time for his father's burial in Hebron.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca.htm



ARE YOU QUESTIONING THE ABILITY OF A PROPHET OF GOD?
YOU ARROGANT SIMPLE MINDED IGNORAMUS, ASK YOURSELF

HOW DID MOSES SURVIVE FOR 40 YEARS IN A DESERT (OF ARABIA?) No archeological evidence that he was ever in SINAI
HOW DID NOAH SURVIVE THE FLOOD?
HOW DID JONAH SURVIVE IN THE BELLY OF WHALE?
HOW DID JESUS ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?
HOW DID A SIMPLE ARAB TRANSFORM THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE FROM DARKENESS INTO LIGHT OF THE GOD (ALLAH)?

I WILL POST THE TRUE ANSWER AFTER I HEAR YOUR BIASED OPINION THAT IS NOT BASD ON ANYTHING BIBLICAL.

 

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 07:01:56 AM »
My interest is in a PRE 4TH CENTURY MECCA. Please show me the evidence of one. Without any evidence that this epicenter of Mohammed's religion supposedly since Adam existed, Mohammed's stand-alone 7th century religion is exposed as nothing more than repackaged pagan Arabian worship. You can save yourself the rest of your support for Mohammed and his "Allah" - and rejection of the God of the Jews and Christians as revealed through His 1600 year record.

Compare that absence of evidence, with the historical and archaeological evidence of Jerusalem.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

You missed the following in your reply. Why not try it now.

......... and regurgitating the same nonsense over and over and over again who cares what you Rafat Amari says about Arabia, .......

If you believe the absence of historical or archaeological evidence regarding Mecca has something to do with Dr. Amari, then all you have to do is bring to bear some evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the Christian era.
Why engage in the typical Islamic tactic of attacking the messenger, to avoid the message?

Tell us how Ishmael made it from Mecca to Hebron across 1200 KM of harsh Arabian desert most of 1000 years before the first caravan route was established along the red sea, in time for his father's burial in Hebron.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca.htm



ARE YOU QUESTIONING THE ABILITY OF A PROPHET OF GOD?

No. I follow the prophets as revealed in the record that you reject. What does that make you?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Mohammed was a false prophet. Mohammed was THE false prophet.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

But Mohammed even came as a ravening wolf. It's a shame he was illiterate or he might have been able to better judge what he was the victim of. Though his good buddy Jabr should have given him a head's up. Though Mohammed did recognize that it was a demon in the cave, but then he let his wife talk him out of it.

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Who do you think THE false prophet is, with 1.5 billion people following Mohammed? The tooth fairy?

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 10:22:04 AM »
YOU ARROGANT SIMPLE MINDED IGNORAMUS, ASK YOURSELF

HOW DID MOSES SURVIVE FOR 40 YEARS IN A DESERT (OF ARABIA?) No archeological evidence that he was ever in SINAI

What evidence would people wandering in a desert be expected to leave behind? Cities? What would they have brought with them, that they would have even been able to afford to discard?
After I posted resistingrex pointed the following scripture out to me, even in regard to their clothing
Deu 8:4 Thy raiment waxed not old upon thee, neither did thy foot swell, these forty years.  

HOW DID NOAH SURVIVE THE FLOOD?

In a boat as the record states.

HOW DID JONAH SURVIVE IN THE BELLY OF WHALE?

The record is unclear as to how, just that he did.

HOW DID JESUS ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?

Just the way witnesses saw, as attested in the record.

How many witnesses saw Mohammed ride on his flying donkey-mule? Why do you think so many Muslims left Islam when he told his tall tale? What's your excuse in this 21st century information age?

HOW DID A SIMPLE ARAB TRANSFORM THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE FROM DARKENESS INTO LIGHT OF THE GOD (ALLAH)?

The exact opposite is true. That's why most everywhere we find murder, mayhem and misery around the world today, we find Islam.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.    2  The same was in the beginning with God.    3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.    4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.    5  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Just as witnessed through your posts in here.

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 12:25:52 PM »
I WILL POST THE TRUE ANSWER AFTER I HEAR YOUR BIASED OPINION THAT IS NOT BASD ON ANYTHING BIBLICAL.

Rather than simply attacking (first language Arabic) Dr. Amari for studying Arabia, Arab paganism, and Islam (for 20 years, 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week, without vacation), including through original source material in the middle east, why don't you instead bring something substantive to refute it, rather than lying about the messenger?
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

Show us some evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

The fact is that you actually believe thousands of years of Islamic fictional "history" that was all penned in the 7th and 8th century AD. And you believe that created "tradition" as if it were an actual, genuine, historical record, don't you?

Even though your own characterization of a 6th century AD Arabia is that of a bunch of ignorant, illiterate, desert dwelling pagan moon, sun, star and demon worshipers, that had been cut off from the rest of the  civilized world - that was quite highly developed even long before the Christian era.


So how do you suppose - just a couple generations after Arabia was populated with ignoramuses - Mohammedan 7th and 8th century AD "tradition" creators, came up with a few thousand years of pre-Mohammed Islamic "history"?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0

Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 12:53:29 PM »
I WILL POST THE TRUE ANSWER AFTER I HEAR YOUR BIASED OPINION THAT IS NOT BASD ON ANYTHING BIBLICAL.

Rather than simply attacking (first language Arabic) Dr. Amari for studying Arabia, Arab paganism, and Islam (for 20 years, 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week, without vacation), including through original source material in the middle east, why don't you instead bring something substantive to refute it, rather than lying about the messenger?
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

Show us some evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

The fact is that you actually believe thousands of years of Islamic fictional "history" that was all penned in the 7th and 8th century AD. And you believe that created "tradition" as if it were an actual, genuine, historical record, don't you?

Even though your own characterization of a 6th century AD Arabia is that of a bunch of ignorant, illiterate, desert dwelling pagan moon, sun, star and demon worshipers, that had been cut off from the rest of the  civilized world - that was quite highly developed even long before the Christian era.


So how do you suppose - just a couple generations after Arabia was populated with ignoramuses - Mohammedan 7th and 8th century AD "tradition" creators, came up with a few thousand years of pre-Mohammed Islamic "history"?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0

VERY INTERESTING OPINION RAFAT AMARI HOLDS, and it is a great question to be studied, for that I would have to go to MAKKAH and ask the Saudis what they have unearthed, it seems the only avenue Dr Rafat has not pursued. The Saudis seem to hold a vast amount of knowledge in Arabic in the Universities that predate all the western Universities as the Arabs were the first to gather knowledge in Bagdad Call Baitul Ghikma (HOUSE OF WISDOM), much of which was destroyed by the mongols.

I will make some enquiries from the Arab kingdom, The only references to Arabia I have thus far is from the BIBLE that confirms that Ishmael and Hagar was given Arabia, Makkah is obviously mentioned but I see that you dont believe the Bible when it differs from your view.

Biblically
Arabs show up in three biblical lists of genealogy:
The descendants of Jaktan (Genesis 10:25-30)
The descendants of Abraham through Keturah (Genesis 10:1-6)
The descendants of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13-18)
(It is possible that some of the descendants of Cush, the son of Ham (Genesis 10:7) are also called Arabs.)

There seems to have been some intermingling between the tribe of Simeon and the Ishmaelites, for the clans of Mibsam and Mishma are associated with both. (Genesis 25:13 and I Chronicles 4:25).

Ishmaelites do not appear among the victims of David's raids into the lands south and east of Israel, even though these enter Arab lands. (I Samuel 27:8 and Genesis 25:18) David's sister married Jether the Ishmaelite (I Chronicles 2:17) and two of David's administrators were Obil the Ishmaelite, and Jaziz the Hagarite, (I Chronicles 27:30).

Hagar and Ishmael were given Arabia (Genesis 21:8-21) and Isaac's descendants were promised the Holy Land. Apparently they were not hostile to each other, for Ishmael and Isaac worked together to bury their father Abraham in the Cave of Macphilah, in Mamre (Genesis 25:9).

On the other hand, the Bible refers to various individuals and groups as being 'Arabs.' Jeremiah prophesied against the 'kings of the Arabs' sometime between 627 and 586 BC.

Arab Genealogists
It is the common view of Arab genealogists and modern historians that Arabs originated in the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula, and then moved northward. (James Montgomery, Arabia and the Bible, Philadelphia, University of Pennsylvania Press, 1934 and Hitti, History of the Arabs.) This view is based on the identification by Muslim Arabs of their oldest ancestor as being Qahtan, whom they identify as the biblical Jaktan. Genesis 10:25-26.

Arab Genealogists divide the Arabians into two ethnic stocks. First, the original Arabic Arabs ('aribah) and then the arabized Arabs (musta 'iribah). The Arabic Arabs are supposed to have originated with the Yamanites and are descended from Qahtan (Jaktan of the Bible) and are the original stock. The Arabized Arabs are the Hijazis, Najdis, Nabataeans, and Palmyrenes. These Arabized Arabs are supposed to have all descended from Adnan, an offspring of Ishmael.

Much is written about Arabia and very little about Makkah but then again very little detail is given about the region as it is a much disputed territory that was ruled and conquered by the strongest tribe.

I know that Makkah and its artifacts are off limits to the public as many Pagan practises creep into the objects as many consider anything from Makkah as the holiest, I worship ALLAH (AL_the ielaah GOD) not Makkah, the honor, property and blood of a believer is more sacred than Makkah and the Ka'aba (words of the Prophet)

Please give sometime but please understand that I place no weight or value in archeological finds, it is not a science and dating techniques have not nearly been perfected also ruins have very little to do with belief or holiness or sacredness the whole world is a place to pray in.

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2010, 01:36:39 PM »
I WILL POST THE TRUE ANSWER AFTER I HEAR YOUR BIASED OPINION THAT IS NOT BASD ON ANYTHING BIBLICAL.

Rather than simply attacking (first language Arabic) Dr. Amari for studying Arabia, Arab paganism, and Islam (for 20 years, 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week, without vacation), including through original source material in the middle east, why don't you instead bring something substantive to refute it, rather than lying about the messenger?
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

Show us some evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/

The fact is that you actually believe thousands of years of Islamic fictional "history" that was all penned in the 7th and 8th century AD. And you believe that created "tradition" as if it were an actual, genuine, historical record, don't you?

Even though your own characterization of a 6th century AD Arabia is that of a bunch of ignorant, illiterate, desert dwelling pagan moon, sun, star and demon worshipers, that had been cut off from the rest of the  civilized world - that was quite highly developed even long before the Christian era.


So how do you suppose - just a couple generations after Arabia was populated with ignoramuses - Mohammedan 7th and 8th century AD "tradition" creators, came up with a few thousand years of pre-Mohammed Islamic "history"?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0

VERY INTERESTING OPINION RAFAT AMARI HOLDS, and it is a great question to be studied, for that I would have to go to MAKKAH and ask the Saudis what they have unearthed, it seems the only avenue Dr Rafat has not pursued. The Saudis seem to hold a vast amount of knowledge in Arabic in the Universities that predate all the western Universities as the Arabs were the first to gather knowledge in Bagdad Call Baitul Ghikma (HOUSE OF WISDOM), much of which was destroyed by the mongols.

Unless I am misunderstanding you seem to be suggesting that the pre-mohammed Meccans, that even you might characterize as a bunch of illiterate pagan ignoramuses, were yet somehow responsible for penning and preserving a rich historical record of Mecca, throughout the entire prior 2,900 year period.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0

Mecca is, after all, supposed to have been the geographical epicenter of Islam, allegedly since Adam.

Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2010, 03:51:55 PM »
Mecca is, after all, supposed to have been the geographical epicenter of Islam, allegedly since Adam.
[/quote]

My dear friend have you learnt nothing in the bible? are you still saying that THE GOD seperated the truth into truth for Jews Truth for Christians and the truth for Christians, have you not realized by now that prophecy (NOT THE PAGAN CHRISTIAN VERSION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT) is a continuous line of the same religion, HEAR YE YOUR LORD GOD IS ONE, SHOW ME A SINGLE PROPHET INCLUDING MUHAMMAD MAKES THIS STAEMENT CLEARLY AND AS THE BASIS FOR BELIEF, PAGAN CHRISTIANS SY NO ALL THE PROPHETS LIARS THE LORD YOUR GOD IS A SON A FATHER AND A HOLY SPIRIT, AND THE THREE ARE ONE< WHY WOULD GOD NOT STATE THIS ACROSS THE WORLD FOR ALL TO HEAR WHY KEEP IT MAINLY AMONGST EUROCENTRIC PAGANS?

Coming back to Arabia list the number of scholars that actually excavated MAKKAH, please and publish their findings.
Please do not follow the word of a biased speculator who by all accounts I thank for showing the Abrahanic proof of the BIBLE and that it co-incides and proves the QURAN AND THE HADITH AS FORETOLD IN THE BIBLE.

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2010, 03:58:55 PM »
Blaspheming God didn't answer the question. Let's try it again.

Do you believe that the pre-mohammed Meccans, that even you might characterize as a bunch of illiterate pagan ignoramuses, were yet somehow responsible for penning and preserving a rich historical record of Mecca, throughout the entire prior 2,900 year period?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0

Mujaheed

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2010, 04:29:59 PM »
Blaspheming God didn't answer the question. Let's try it again.

Do you believe that the pre-mohammed Meccans, that even you might characterize as a bunch of illiterate pagan ignoramuses, were yet somehow responsible for penning and preserving a rich historical record of Mecca, throughout the entire prior 2,900 year period.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0

ARE YOU AN ILLITERATE IGNORAMUS? The Arabs were not big on writing things down, nor were any of the other pre Islamic civilizations, very few materials were available, very few people could read and write, and there are no libraries of accurate information, most archeological finds reveal personal accounts, mostly of royalty and written in that light, to please the then ruler or die. Historians abound amongst the greeaks and Romans and persians but whom we trust is a matter of personal faith.

One thing that thereis In ARABIA is a rich history of Poetry, by your own admittance, stories were told in a sophisticated artful manner in a language that is still ahead of its time, Arabic. That why the language was chosen for revelation for mankind, (does aramaic ring a bell) The move from Aramaic scripture is an obvious ploy to get rid of the original words used by the Prophets.

ANY WAY WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME ARGUING ABOUT ARCHEOLOGY when you are clearly not one,
I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS IS A RELIGIOUS BASED WEBSITE> I am yet to discover the love Of the one true God this your topic reads.

What does your opinion or Rafat Amaris opinion matter in light of The Quran and the Hadith that is accepted to come from a man known as AL AMEEN (the truthful One) Authentic Hadith is corroborated, show me that Rafat AMARI's Data is confirmed by known scholars, I wasted my time reading some of his writings, very nice if you want to to know the history of Pagan Arabia, useless spiritually, as he confuses the issues and miss the point of Islam completely in his opinionated assumptions.

IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY TIMES HE REPEATS AN OPINION IT DOES NOT MAKE A FACT, OR BIBLICAL OR CHANGES THE QURAN OR THE MINDS OF INTELLIGENT INFORMED MUSLIMS!

YOUR ANGLE IS WAY OFF AND VERY CHILDISH.

Peter

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Re: The Love of the One True God as Discovered by Muslims
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2010, 04:46:07 PM »
Blaspheming God didn't answer the question. Let's try it again.

Do you believe that the pre-mohammed Meccans, that even you might characterize as a bunch of illiterate pagan ignoramuses, were yet somehow responsible for penning and preserving a rich historical record of Mecca, throughout the entire prior 2,900 year period.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1176.0

ARE YOU AN ILLITERATE IGNORAMUS? The Arabs were not big on writing things down, nor were any of the other pre Islamic civilizations, very few materials were available, very few people could read and write, and there are no libraries of accurate information, most archeological finds reveal personal accounts, mostly of royalty and written in that light, to please the then ruler or die.

Then you recognize that all of the the "tradition" that you believe about Mecca was penned in the 7th and 8th century AD.

Historians abound amongst the greeaks and Romans and persians but whom we trust is a matter of personal faith.

One thing that thereis In ARABIA is a rich history of Poetry, by your own admittance, stories were told in a sophisticated artful manner in a language that is still ahead of its time, Arabic. That why the language was chosen for revelation for mankind, (does aramaic ring a bell) The move from Aramaic scripture is an obvious ploy to get rid of the original words used by the Prophets.

ANY WAY WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME ARGUING ABOUT ARCHEOLOGY ......

We only covered history. We didn't even start on archaeology yet. Arabia has one of the richest archaeological records on earth, because the limited rainfall precludes degradation of the archaeological evidence. Even towns that came and went within a couple of centuries are attested. And the archaeological records of ancient towns attest to each other. Yet there is NOT A SHRED of evidence in that record that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD when pagan immigrants from Yemen settled it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1132.0
Or that it's Kaaba existed before the early 5th century when those immigrants built it for moon, sun, star, and jinn-demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1133.0