Chat with Michael2 (youtube user ID hillbillybushcraft)

[Michael2]

Is there any way you can make this board so after you post you return to the end of the thread instead of the mail page?

[Peter]

As far as zionism
 I am not sure we will agree on a definition. Because your view and my view are different. That is a lot of this debate.
False Zionism is the final beast system. They are the NWO.
?? Zionism of old we agree on but today we do not.

This is not going to be very constructive if you create your own definition of a term that is well defined. I gave you two definitions and all of the rest will be similar.

Do you support the restoration of the Jews to the land of Israel or not?
Do you support their right to freedom and self-determination and self-rule in Israel?

[Peter]

I tried and tested the traditional continuous-historic context of prophecy that I hold (advanced by Ellis Skolfield for the last 30 years) in Christian forums for 1-1/2 to 2 years, full time.

You study with Skolfield?? That answers a lot!

You believe in a future "The" "Antichrist" and in a future false prophet.
Do you believe in a 7-year tribulation during which they will be revealed?

[Peter]

Is there any way you can make this board so after you post you return to the end of the thread instead of the mail page?

I've never heard of that happening to anybody in the 3 or so years we have been online.
Maybe if you close your browser and reopen it it will fix it.
[edit add] I think I just realized what you meant. If you mean it goes to the top of the thread page and you have to scroll back to the bottom, I think that's just the way it works (cookie crumbles!)

I'll be back within the hour.

[Michael2]

Do you support the restoration of the Jews to the land of Israel or not?

Again. Define Jew?? It is that important!

Do you support their right to freedom and self-determination and self-rule in Israel?

I support Everyones right to freedom. In Israel?? Again it depends on how you define Jew??
If it is of the tribe of Judah. Yes!
Aa far as a  fake. Well... Like I said before, not all that claim to be of the tribe of Judah are. And with that being said. No I don't support those in particular. Rev 2:9 and 3:9 as well as MANY places through out the NT these are talked about.   
I know this is all very confusing if you havnt heard of it before but this is the truth.
I would rather all of Israel return when Christ returns.

[Michael2]

You believe in a future "The" "Antichrist" and in a future false prophet.
Do you believe in a 7-year tribulation during which they will be revealed?

 7 year trib NO! Here is why.
 Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Shorted to what. It says it will be as it was in the days of Noah. Here is part of the big secret. Noah was on the Ark for 1 year. It rained 40 days and 40 nights.
The flood was upon the face of the earth for 150 days. And that is the Key.
The flood that is coming is a flood of lies! 150 divided by 30 is 5!!
The days have been shorted to a five month period.
The days of Satans tribulation!
I would also point out that the season of the Locust army spoken of in Rev. is Five months. More specifically in nature. And I shouldn't have to tell you that God uses nature to show us things.  The locust season is May though Sept. 5 months.
Again.  I know what John said about being our brother in tribulation but ...
Jesus said in Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Again this is the tribulation of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Jesus is very specific and it can not refer to an earlier point in time.

[Michael2]

I've never heard of that happening to anybody in the 3 or so years we have been online.
Maybe if you close your browser and reopen it it will fix it.
[edit add] I think I just realized what you meant. If you mean it goes to the top of the thread page and you have to scroll back to the bottom, I think that's just the way it works (cookie crumbles!)

When I post it takes me here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=73.0
Is that suppose to happen? I was hoping it would just take me to the end of the thread. But I can live with it.

[Peter]

I've never heard of that happening to anybody in the 3 or so years we have been online.
Maybe if you close your browser and reopen it it will fix it.
[edit add] I think I just realized what you meant. If you mean it goes to the top of the thread page and you have to scroll back to the bottom, I think that's just the way it works (cookie crumbles!)

When I post it takes me here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=73.0
Is that suppose to happen? I was hoping it would just take me to the end of the thread. But I can live with it.

Yea it takes me there too. It doesn't though if you are editing a post, but it does for initiating a post.

[Peter]

You believe in a future "The" "Antichrist" and in a future false prophet.
Do you believe in a 7-year tribulation during which they will be revealed?

 7 year trib NO! Here is why.

So what do you expect your future "The" "Antichrist" to do?

Again this is the tribulation of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Jesus is very specific and it can not refer to an earlier point in time.

What is the abomination of desolation?

[Michael2]

You believe in a future "The" "Antichrist" and in a future false prophet.
Do you believe in a 7-year tribulation during which they will be revealed?

 7 year trib NO! Here is why.

So what do you expect your future "The" "Antichrist" to do?

Again this is the tribulation of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Jesus is very specific and it can not refer to an earlier point in time.

What is the abomination of desolation?

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
This is a reference to Daniel 12:11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. “
It is used as the equivalent for a special Idol as it was in Deut 7:26 “Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing. “ and in 1 Kings 11:7 “Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.” Compared to 2 Thes 2:4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

Anti-Christ well show the world that he is god! He is the false Messiah. He will claim that he is a descendant of David. Just like the false Zionist do today.

[Michael2]

Also Check this out!!

Dan 12:12 “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”  Do you understand?
This is talking about those that do not get deceived by the anti-Christ during his tribulation. That is to follow satan but are patient and wait on the Lord!

[Peter]

Do you support the restoration of the Jews to the land of Israel or not?

Again. Define Jew?? It is that important!

Do you support their right to freedom and self-determination and self-rule in Israel?

I support Everyones right to freedom. In Israel?? Again it depends on how you define Jew??
If it is of the tribe of Judah. Yes!

Come on, what about the Levites?
What about Jews like me that are grafted in?

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Aa far as a  fake. Well... Like I said before, not all that claim to be of the tribe of Judah are.

Sorry, but anybody from the tribe of Judah that is secular, agnostic or atheist isn't a Jew.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

And with that being said. No I don't support those in particular. Rev 2:9 and 3:9 as well as MANY places through out the NT these are talked about.   
I know this is all very confusing if you havnt heard of it before but this is the truth.

You mean is that it is what you believe to be truth, but I don't think you understand what a Jew is.

I would rather all of Israel return when Christ returns.

You can rather the tooth fairy, but what does scripture indicate?

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

[Peter]

Thes 2:4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

Anti-Christ well show the world that he is god! He is the false Messiah.

So what temple is that?
What does the abomination desolate?

He will claim that he is a descendant of David. Just like the false Zionist do today.

What about the faithful descendents of David that can honestly make that claim?
Are you in favor of them ruling and reigning over Israel?

[Michael2]

Do you support the restoration of the Jews to the land of Israel or not?

Again. Define Jew?? It is that important!

Do you support their right to freedom and self-determination and self-rule in Israel?

I support Everyones right to freedom. In Israel?? Again it depends on how you define Jew??
If it is of the tribe of Judah. Yes!

Come on, what about the Levites?
What about Jews like me that are grafted in?

Levites?? They are Israel. We are specifically talking about Jews! And once again they are not all of Israel! That is fact!

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Aa far as a  fake. Well... Like I said before, not all that claim to be of the tribe of Judah are.

Sorry, but anybody from the tribe of Judah that is secular, agnostic or atheist isn't a Jew.

I disagree. Spiritually this is correct. But physically that is not true. If the blood lines didn't matter God would not have kept them in his word. Actually it is very important. God hated Esau because he sold his birth right. Remember?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

And with that being said. No I don't support those in particular. Rev 2:9 and 3:9 as well as MANY places through out the NT these are talked about.   
I know this is all very confusing if you havnt heard of it before but this is the truth.

You mean is that it is what you believe to be truth, but I don't think you understand what a Jew is.

I would rather all of Israel return when Christ returns.

You can rather the tooth fairy, but what does scripture indicate?

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

I understand and have put many years into understand the Jew. I once thought as you when it comes to this particular subject believe it or not! Then the Holy Spirit showed me the truth. I have to admit it was a hard pill to swallow. But the more I read I confirmed it.
And yes the scripture indicates ALL Israel will return to the Holy Land win Jesus returns! Christ is returning to the Mount of Olives and that is were we will meet him.

[Michael2]

Anti-Christ well show the world that he is god! He is the false Messiah.

So where does he do that from? The back of a pick-up truck?

Did You read the post I posted?? 2 Thes 2 tells you were from. Which is what I have been telling you. Jerusalem!!

He will claim that he is a descendant of David. Just like the false Zionist do today.

What about the faithful descendents of David that can honestly make that claim?
Are you in favor of them ruling and reigning over Israel?

I don't have a problem with it. But most Torah Jews do have a problem with that. Despite what you think and what you are taught.

[Peter]

Do you support the restoration of the Jews to the land of Israel or not?

Again. Define Jew?? It is that important!

Do you support their right to freedom and self-determination and self-rule in Israel?

I support Everyones right to freedom. In Israel?? Again it depends on how you define Jew??
If it is of the tribe of Judah. Yes!

Come on, what about the Levites?
What about Jews like me that are grafted in?

Levites?? They are Israel. We are specifically talking about Jews! And once again they are not all of Israel! That is fact!

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Aa far as a  fake. Well... Like I said before, not all that claim to be of the tribe of Judah are.

Sorry, but anybody from the tribe of Judah that is secular, agnostic or atheist isn't a Jew.

I disagree.

You aren't disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with Paul.

Spiritually this is correct. But physically that is not true. If the blood lines didn't matter God would not have kept them in his word. Actually it is very important. God hated Esau because he sold his birth right. Remember?

Now you're arguing like a Muslim. They don't want to draw a distinction between the old covenant and the new covenant either. As Paul explained in the following verses (that you even quoted) in the Christian era, THE ONLY JEW is a faithful Jew.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

And with that being said. No I don't support those in particular. Rev 2:9 and 3:9 as well as MANY places through out the NT these are talked about.   
I know this is all very confusing if you havnt heard of it before but this is the truth.

You mean is that it is what you believe to be truth, but I don't think you understand what a Jew is.

I would rather all of Israel return when Christ returns.

You can rather the tooth fairy, but what does scripture indicate?

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

I understand and have put many years into understand the Jew. I once thought as you when it comes to this particular subject believe it or not! Then the Holy Spirit showed me the truth.

Ted Pike thought the Holy Spirit showed him the truth too.

I have to admit it was a hard pill to swallow. But the more I read I confirmed it.

Maybe you meant that once you started seeking a particular outcome, wouldn't you know it, the scriptures accommodated!

And yes the scripture indicates ALL Israel will return to the Holy Land win Jesus returns! Christ is returning to the Mount of Olives and that is were we will meet him.

[Michael2]

No you are wrong. This is not an accommodation issue. When I realized the truth it slapped me in the face. Many of the groups that you mention never make the distinction I make. Again there is a difference. And No I do not disagree with Paul at all. You don't understand what Paul is saying, as most Christians do not. Paul was a scholar in his time. When he writes there are many that either only understand the elementary level of what he taught or not at all. They are perpetually confused.  The only Jew is a faithful Jew to what??
How can a man argue like a Muslim. When he has accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior?? They argue the birth right of Ishmael I argue the blood right of Isaac!! Why do you think Christ Genealogy is listed in Mat 1?? It DOES matter. Then and Now.

[Michael2]

Anti-Christ well show the world that he is god! He is the false Messiah.

So where does he do that from? The back of a pick-up truck?

Did You read the post I posted?? 2 Thes 2 tells you were from. Which is what I have been telling you. Jerusalem!!

Didn't the verse you quoted say he sitteth in the temple of God?

Where do you think the temple of God is?? It is in Jerusalem!

[Peter]

Which temple of God in Jerusalem?

[Michael2]

Come on. Really.... are we going to play word games. You know very well what temple. I know it was partially destroyed in 70 A.D. but taht is still God's Favorite place. Right there in Jerusalem.

[Peter]

Come on. Really.... are we going to play word games.

No we're going to respect the scriptures.

You know very well what temple. I know it was partially destroyed in 70 A.D. but taht is still God's Favorite place. Right there in Jerusalem.

The temple WAS NOT PARTIALLY destroyed. It was thrown down - every stone - just as Jesus prophesied it would be. All that's left is the mount.
So where does the antichrist sitteth?
So what does the abomination desolate?

[Michael2]

Come on. Really.... are we going to play word games. You know very well what temple. I know it was partially destroyed in 70 A.D. but taht is still God's Favorite place. Right there in Jerusalem.

The temple WAS NOT PARTIALLY destroyed. It was thrown down - every stone - just as Jesus prophesied. All that's left is the mount.
So where does the antichrist sitteth?
So what does the abomination desolate?

LOL NO not hardly. Do you know what it means to not have one stone left standing upon another?? It means it will be turned into sand!!!
The walls are still standing. It has not been destroyed as it will be destroyed like Christ was talking about.

[Michael2]

So where does the antichrist sitteth?

Right where Paul said he would.

So what does the abomination desolate?

The desolator makes desolate the Children. He will make them apostate!

Just as he did before!!
Rev 12

[Peter]

Come on. Really.... are we going to play word games. You know very well what temple. I know it was partially destroyed in 70 A.D. but taht is still God's Favorite place. Right there in Jerusalem.

The temple WAS NOT PARTIALLY destroyed. It was thrown down - every stone - just as Jesus prophesied. All that's left is the mount.
So where does the antichrist sitteth?
So what does the abomination desolate?

LOL NO not hardly. Do you know what it means to not have one stone left standing upon another?? It means it will be turned into sand!!!
The walls are still standing.

I've seen people go through preposterous machinations to try to make a false doctrine work, but I've never seen the likes of that. I suspect you may be the only person on earth that doesn't recognize the temple was removed - every stone.
Sorry my friend but the dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque are the only two things standing on the temple mount.

If there were remnants of walls standing, are you saying the antichrist would be sitting on the temple mount in among a ruin?

It has not been destroyed as it will be destroyed like Christ was talking about.

[Peter]

So where does the antichrist sitteth?

Right where Paul said he would.

So what does the abomination desolate?

The desolator makes desolate the Children. He will make them apostate!

Just as he did before!!
Rev 12

But just a minute ago you were trying to make the case for a partial temple that the antichrist defiles, and now you seem to be saying it is children he desolates.