Chat with Michael2 (youtube user ID hillbillybushcraft)

[Peter]

Sorry. And as far as the Second beast being the fasle Prophet. There are TWO  entities specifically in Rev 13 and then in the Verse I quoted.

Yes there are. In Revelation 13 they are both kingdom "beasts".
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/leopard_bear_lion_beast.htm#two_horned_beast

In the second case there is a kingdom "beast" and a false prophet.

the false prophet
New Testament Greek Definition:
5578 pseudoprophetes {psyoo-dop-rof-ay'-tace}
from 5571 and 4396; TDNT - 6:781,952; n m
AV - false prophet 11; 11
1) one who, acting the part of a divinely inspired prophet, utters
falsehoods under the name of divine prophecies
2) a false prophet

  WITH HIM yes... that done all the things (miracles) the second beast did.... DID you catch that??

Ya I did. If you were familiar with the Koine Greek word translated as "miracles" in this verse you would understand that Muhammad's Quran is a perfect fit.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm#the_tragedy

miracles
New Testament Greek Definition:
4592 semeion {say-mi'-on}
from a presumed derivative of the base of 4591; TDNT - 7:200,1015; n n
AV - sign 50, miracle 23, wonder 3, token 1; 77
1) a sign, mark, token
1a) that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from others and is known
1b) a sign, prodigy, portent, i.e. an unusual occurrence,
transcending the common course of nature
1b1) of signs portending remarkable events soon to happen
1b2) of miracles and wonders by which God authenticates the men
sent by him, or by which men prove that the cause they are
pleading is God's
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm#the_tragedy

Let alone that one Islamic cult is providing a warning to Jews, Christians AND Muslims, by proclaiming 666 to be their holy number. Try this link.
http://www.66619.org/thequran.htm

"The number 666 is highly publicized all over the world and it is associated with evil and danger.
However, it is not what it seems. It was a Satanic trick.
The trick was to prevent the people approaching the 666.
Satan knew that the 666 is the book of GOD and the people should be kept away from it.
According to his plan, he placed a bad image to the number 666."

This is beyond theology guys. This has become about reading comprehension skills!

Indeed it has. But the bible wasn't revealed in English but in Koine Greek. (By the way, which bible translation are you quoting from? If you had used the KJV you may not have wandered so far astray.)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=81.msg203#msg203

OK now try to read and comprehend

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Revelation 1:9 |  egw  <1473> {I}  iwannhV  <2491> {JOHN,}  o  <3588> {WHO}  kai  <2532> {ALSO}  adelfoV  <80> {BROTHER}  umwn  <5216> {YOUR}  kai  <2532> {AND}  sugkoinwnoV  <4791> {FELLOW PARTAKER}  en  <1722> {IN}  th  <3588> {THE}  qliyei  <2347> {TRIBULATION}  kai  <2532> {AND}  en  <1722> {IN}  th  <3588> {THE}  basileia  <932> {KINGDOM}  kai  <2532> {AND}  upomonh  <5281> {ENDURANCE}  ihsou  <2424> {OF JESUS}  cristou  <5547> {CHRIST,}....

Definite article THE. The same tribulation John was in.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm#judah

There is a more intense period indicated within it though, peaking with 8 million Jews marched like lambs to the slaughter by Hitler and the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem enjoining Muslims, with the shared goal of genocide of Jews, including 2 Islamic panzer divisions in Hitler's army. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY (or do you deny the holocaust along with the other anti-zionists you run with like Ahmadenijhad?)
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm#times_gentiles

I have to go to bed. I will talk to you guys tomorrow.  One more thing Pete. We can disagree and still be friends. However just because you don't agree don't mean you should throw insults like Blasphemy around at me. I have not said it.

When you degrade the price that you know Jesus paid on the cross - His finished work - by recognizing other than THE ONLY temple of God in the Christian era - the body of Christ - particularly if suggesting that any other physical temple on earth could be desolated, I think you need to be really concerned.
I called it "borderline" blasphemy because I know you did it through ignorance. If you continue to do it in full knowledge of where you know the ONE temple is, in the Christian era, what would you call it?

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

The single concept of the "temple of God" relegates your whole (in your case uniquely embellished) futurist idea, to the dustbin of false doctrine.
There's ONE PLACE we need to be on guard for "that man of sin" in the Christian era.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/man_of_sin.htm
And the more I have engaged anti-zionists in YouTube, the more I have been drawn to ponder the "synagogue of satan", and "that man of sin" that sitteth in the temple of God.

But I think to not be able to see the FUTURE false Christ is to already have the mark of the Beast. In other words you believe the LIE.

No, I understand, as scholars do, that bible prophecy is ethnographic. So when John speaks of his "whole world" I understand it isn't about Peoria Illinois, but about the Holy Land and surrounding lands as John knew the world.

Strong's explains: 3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay} 1) the inhabited earth 1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians 1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire

What does John's whole world look like today?



As we can see, virtually John's whole world has already received the name of the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic "beast" kingdom, as they are Islamic. They must reject the Son of God and His crucifixion.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The most devout among Muhammad's antichrists even marked physically from praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" 5 times a day!



But you're waiting around for some future boogieman, while there are 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone.
You're so busy attacking Jews you can't even see that you've taken the Islamic beast's side in regard to MY land of Israel. And make no mistake there are only two sides.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2984.0

Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

By the way. If you think the majority of Rev has already happened. What was the Mark of the Beast. Many great scholars have tried to figure that one out for 2000 years. I guess they should have just ask you huh?
LOL

What is the seal of God in Christians foreheads? A different microchip?

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mark_of_the_beast.htm

[Peter]

Anti-zionists want to pretend that Muhammadans are different now than they were a hundred years ago, because of Zionism, but that simply isn't so. They have been the same for 1400 years because they have always been antichrists, indoctrinated by THE false prophet Muhammad not into what to believe, but specifically to DISbelieve the whole subject of the Gospel. To DENY the Son of God and REJECT the blood that would save them. How many religions do you know of that are specifically anti-another religion directly from the books they go by? A the negative is to a photograph? No surprise that their goal has always been the conquest of all the kingdoms of the world - Satan's kingdoms - and subjugation of all people to Muhammad's followers. To Satan's followers. I've shown you through their books, that fighting and slaying non-muslims is binding on all true followers of Muhammad - in the Quran.

If you think the Jews spoiled the Muslims as your fellow anti-zionists do, here's how Winston Churchill weighed in on Muhammad's followers about 112 years ago.

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live…The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities…but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa…and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.” - by Sir Winston Churchill - The River War, Vol. II, pp. 248-50, London; Longman, Green & Co., 1899

Quite prophetic words as we watched the dechristianization and secularization of Europe, with Islam handily filling the vacuum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlG75wb7lLw

Here's how Islam Spreads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9WbSCsi1eU

Here are the demographics you need to see regarding 1/4 of mankind - 1.5 billion people - as opposed to your fear of 0.2% of the world's population that are ethnic Jews.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

[Peter]

You must be part of the any moment crowd? i.e. Jesus could return at any moment.

Of course I am. Here's why.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

What about those that proclaim that Jesus delays His coming? Those that say "Jesus can't come yet because the temple isn't rebuilt" or "Jesus can't come yet because the future boogieman/antichrist hasn't arrived on the scene" or "Jesus can't come yet because the future false prophet hasn't come and converted 1.5 billion Muslims from the false prophet Muhammad, to some other, future, false prophet not yet revealed"

What about those that say that Jesus delays His return because they are looking for a boogieman instead of looking for Jesus?

Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How do you suppose that bodes for those that support Hamas, at the expense of Yahweh's servants?

[Peter]

You said that you believe that Jerusalem, and the temple mount, still have significance for Jesus. What would you call a building - that is an "IT" not a he...

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

...that "STANDS" on the temple mount - in the holy place - just as Jesus said the AoD would ..........
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/abomination_of_desolation.htm

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains

Strong's - stand
New Testament Greek Definition:
2476 histemi {his'-tay-mee}
a prolonged form of a primary stao {stah'-o} (of the same
meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); TDNT - 7:638,1082; v
AV - stand 116, set 11, establish 5, stand still 4, stand by 3,
misc 17, vr stand 2; 158
1) to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
1a) to bid to stand by, [set up]
1a1) in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges,
before members of the Sanhedrin;
1a2) to place
1b) to make firm, fix establish
1b1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place
1b2) to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape
in safety
1b3) to establish a thing, cause it to stand
1b31) to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything
1c) to set or place in a balance
1c1) to weigh: money to one (because in very early times before
the introduction of coinage, the metals used to be weighed)
2) to stand
2a) to stand by or near
2a1) to stop, stand still, to stand immovable, stand firm
2a1a) of the foundation of a building
etc. etc.

....and what if all around the outside eave of that building in Mosaic, and all around the inside, and in plaques at the portals, were written founding verses like:

"The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) NE better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son."

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:

Continuing on in the words of that abomination "We believe in God and that which was revealed unto Muhammad and that which the Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him"
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/copper.html

You see, Muslims are not allowed to make a distinction between Jesus, the sinless Messiah, the Lamb of God - or any of the prophets in scripture - from the false prophet Muhammad who their own books reveal as a mass murdering, female prisoner abusing, lying, oath breaking, child doing, self-admitted terrorist and murderous, thief.

Is it safe to say you would you call that AN abomination?



Here are a few math problems in prophecy that pin its founding date:

1260 days, 42 months, and 1290 days. Please click on the link.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#revelation_1260_days

Ah but you're too busy chasing boogiemen, to stop even for a moment, and consider how terribly wrong you could be, aren't you? Too busy dissing Jews and siding with Hamas and anti-zionist Nazis, skinheads, Muslims, Soviets and the KKK & David Duke.

It is Jerusalem that was desolated through 1200 years of Islamization, and by the early 1800's was rendered a physically and spiritually desolated, treeless desert wasteland with the population reduced to just 550.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2982.0
Fulfilled, just as was prophesied.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains...

You need to repent my friend, and quit chasing boogiemen, instead of awaiting the coming of our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Enough bible prophecy has been fulfilled to herald His coming TODAY. Do you really want to be joined with Muslims in coming against Yahweh's people when Jesus returns? What if you die of an aneurism this very day? Which side will He find you on?

Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

The side advancing the freedom, independence, self-determination and rule of Yahweh's people in the land He gave us - including some of the most innovative and productive people in the world.

Or the side of the Islamic antichrists that you yourself admit were better off being ruled by iron-fisted, murderous, maniacal dictators, than they are now that the MAJORITY of the CITIZENS in all of the countries in this "Arab Spring" - in this so-called "democratization" of these countries of the Middle East - elect the Muslim Brotherhood and internationally recognized terrorist organizations like Hamas to run the show?

The side of unproductive sloth, whose primary export is terrorism and whose domestic product is indoctrinating their children into hating Jews. Whose sole asperation is "death for Allah" - that is dying while slaughtering Yahweh's people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4d9HPw4a_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbHVEGnYD8
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islam+indoctrination+children&oq=islam+indoctrination+children&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=164l3587l0l3817l21l21l0l0l0l0l222l2185l6.14.1l21l0

Jesus will find you on the side of those that are working hard to turn Israel into just another sharia law ruled, female circumcising, child doing, wife beating, Christian beheading, Islamic terrorist, slave state.

Verse by verse Revelation 13
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/leopard_bear_lion_beast.htm

Verse by verse Olivet Discourse
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm

[Michael2]

When you degrade the price that you know Jesus paid on the cross - His finished work - by recognizing other than THE ONLY temple of God in the Christian era - the body of Christ - particularly if suggesting that any other physical temple on earth could be desolated, I think you need to be really concerned.
I called it "borderline" blasphemy because I know you did it through ignorance. If you continue to do it in full knowledge of where you know the ONE temple is, in the Christian era, what would you call it?

Full Knowledge. Who's knowledge Pete.. YOURS???

Let me quote my self here..

You do know that the "Jews" are doing their best to get that temple rebuilt don't you? It turns out after many years of surveying they say the Temple was actually situated to the north of the Mosque and could be built without destroying the Mosque. Although I am not sure if they will actually build it or not.

I know full well the body of Christ is the Church.
Like I said before reading Comprehension skills!!
I said nothing about the fact that they should nor it being a necessity. I said they (Jews) are doing their best to rebuild the temple. And I agree there is no need. 
And as I said PAUL said he will stand in the Temple of God showing himself that he is god. You can deny that if you like but it is denying the inspired word of God! As I have stated from the beginning I deal only in truth. That truth being the word of God Not Pete’s truth nor Skolfeild. You however can believe what ever you like. I will do the same.

I ONLY and I do Mean ONLY use a King James version. However I realize it is a translation as you should and some things don't always carry through in the translation. I said I had accidentally posted from the NIV I would never use that version. It is why I reposted. Which version do you use The Skolfield??
Now back to the Second Beast in Revelation I see no need in reposting all of this again. The first beast is a political beast. The second is a religious beast. I hope we can at least agree on that. Then in Rev 16:13 19:20 20:10 Are ALL referring to the second Beast. If you don’t see that then you can not read. It is as simple as that.  Why did the Lord put it like this? May be to give a side profile of what it is your looking at. But no matter the Second Beast IS BEYOND ANY DOUBT THE fasle prophet spoken of HERE in Rev!
OK Now MaRK 13 “it”
As I said before he is quoting Dan 9:27 and it is compared to 12:11
Lets read.
Daniel 9: 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 12: 11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Dan 9 it is pretty clear we are talking about a HE not an IT. If you look that word up you will see that IT can be he she or  it… it really depends on how it is being presented in context.
Set up does not necessarily mean propped up as you would suggest but brought to power.

Repent??? For repeating the word of God?

Any moment crowd. LOL
1 Thes 1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Maybe you should consider taking ALL the word into context! I think Paul is pretty clear about this. It will come as a theif because when the anti-christ comes YOU and other like you will accept him because you think he is Jesus. That is why Christ gave the warning.
Mat 24: 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Do you know what that means?? He is warning you not to be unfaithful. To be a virgin spiritually when he returns!!! THAT IS VERY IMPROTANT.  If you follow after the first messiah that returns then well…
It will be as a theif when the true Christ returns. BECAUSE you think he is already here.
By the way the next verse in that passage is a warning of being harvested out of season!
Jesus is pretty plain about this.
 THEN AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAY THEN will you see the son of Man coming with great power!!Understand
Brother Pete I think you need to repent! LOL

[Peter]

When you degrade the price that you know Jesus paid on the cross - His finished work - by recognizing other than THE ONLY temple of God in the Christian era - the body of Christ - particularly if suggesting that any other physical temple on earth could be desolated, I think you need to be really concerned.
I called it "borderline" blasphemy because I know you did it through ignorance. If you continue to do it in full knowledge of where you know the ONE temple is, in the Christian era, what would you call it?

Full Knowledge. Who's knowledge Pete.. YOURS???

Let me quote my self here..

You do know that the "Jews" are doing their best to get that temple rebuilt don't you? It turns out after many years of surveying they say the Temple was actually situated to the north of the Mosque and could be built without destroying the Mosque. Although I am not sure if they will actually build it or not.

I know full well the body of Christ is the Church.
Like I said before reading Comprehension skills!!
I said nothing about the fact that they should nor it being a necessity. I said they (Jews) are doing their best to rebuild the temple. And I agree there is no need. 
And as I said PAUL said he will stand in the Temple of God showing himself that he is god.

Is that what Paul said?
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

You can deny that if you like but it is denying the inspired word of God!

Yes, and words matter my friend. The AoD stands in the holy place, while that "man of sin" sitteth in the corporate body of Christ.

As I have stated from the beginning I deal only in truth. That truth being the word of God Not Pete’s truth nor Skolfeild. You however can believe what ever you like. I will do the same.

I ONLY and I do Mean ONLY use a King James version. However I realize it is a translation as you should and some things don't always carry through in the translation. I said I had accidentally posted from the NIV I would never use that version. It is why I reposted. Which version do you use The Skolfield??

That's funny! And Ironic too! The fellow of the 20th century annotated bible, most responsible for bringing John Darby's futurist heresy that you hold into the 20th century church's name was Cyrus Scofield.
Ellis Skolfield is the author of "The False Prophet", and has written about the role of Islam as the end-time enemy of God's people for over 30 years.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_great_detective.htm

Now back to the Second Beast in Revelation I see no need in reposting all of this again.

That's right. No need. The location of the temple of God in the Christian era nullified your eschatology.

The first beast is a political beast. The second is a religious beast. I hope we can at least agree on that. Then in Rev 16:13 19:20 20:10 Are ALL referring to the second Beast. If you don’t see that then you can not read. It is as simple as that.

It isn't a children's book. It isn't as simple as that. That's why we have to stick with how the scriptures define things. And a beast is a kingdom in the figurative language of a dream or vision in prophecy, and a false prophet is a false prophet.

Why did the Lord put it like this?

He didn't. Your doctrine does.

May be to give a side profile of what it is your looking at. But no matter the Second Beast IS BEYOND ANY DOUBT THE fasle prophet spoken of HERE in Rev!
OK Now MaRK 13 “it”
As I said before he is quoting Dan 9:27 and it is compared to 12:11
Lets read.
Daniel 9: 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#daniel_70_weeks

Daniel 12: 11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel's 1290 "days"
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#daniel_1290_days

Is confirmed by John's 1260 days and 42 months in the day-year language of prophecy. Mathematically as well as textually.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#revelation_1260_days
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#court_without

1335 days
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#daniel_1335_days

But then if we run with the reformers and those of the "former age" it doesn't give us as good of an opportunity to beat on the Jews. Heck being persecuted while scattered among the nations for 2500 years wasn't near enough, was it.

Dan 9 it is pretty clear ........

Your suggestion that the most contentious passage in scripture is "clear", particularly from someone who holds a uniquely embellished version of Darby's futurism that folded like a house of cards on the temple of God, pretty much says it all.

......... we are talking about a HE not an IT.

Indeed that passage is:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/69_weeks.htm

If you look that word up you will see that IT can be he she or  it… it really depends on how it is being presented in context.

But you didn't even resolve the conflict in your two passages where the AoD "sitteth" in one and "stands" in another.

Set up does not necessarily mean propped up as you would suggest but brought to power.

Repent??? For repeating the word of God?

For suggesting that a physical temple on earth could be desolated, when it would rendered desolate (2,000 years ago) before the first stone would ever laid.

Any moment crowd. LOL
1 Thes 1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Maybe you should consider taking ALL the word into context! I think Paul is pretty clear about this. It will come as a theif because when the anti-christ comes YOU and other like you will accept him because you think he is Jesus. That is why Christ gave the warning.
Mat 24: 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Do you know what that means?? He is warning you not to be unfaithful. To be a virgin spiritually when he returns!!! THAT IS VERY IMPROTANT.  If you follow after the first messiah that returns then well…

That's the one you and the Muslims are looking for. Yet it won't even give you pause to wonder hat Darby's prophecy suggests a "The" "Antichrist" figure just as the false prophet Muhammad's prophecy does?

It will be as a theif when the true Christ returns. BECAUSE you think he is already here.
By the way the next verse in that passage is a warning of being harvested out of season!
Jesus is pretty plain about this.
 THEN AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAY THEN will you see the son of Man coming with great power!!Understand

So sad that it has made you so blind to the suffering of our brothers and sisters around the world, that you took sides with their oppressors.
www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

Brother Pete I think you need to repent! LOL

Did it ever occur to you to write that mess down that you hold? Back when I was a futurist I started writing about Darby's doctrine I wound up with more questions than answers.
It would be a good exercise for you if you haven't.
If you have perhaps you can share it with us so we can all exegete it together.

[Michael2]

I just browsed over your Olivet discourse and went to 24:19 You skipped a few verse then just made something up to fit YOUR way of thinking.  Which by the way is wrong. LOL Will the Muslim play there part in this end time scenario YES but not like you say they will. Did you happen to notice how long it took us to subdue Iraq by any chance? LOL

Matthew 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matthew 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Even beyond Judea these instructions would aptly apply to all of the fallen cities and states where Christians and Jews were slaughtered and enslaved by Muslims during the rape, pillage and plunder of the 152 years (5 prophetic months) of the imperialistic Islamic first Jihad conquest of nearly the whole world, until stopped in Tours France by Charles Martel in the Battle of Tours. 

The following report was chronicled near the zenith of the First Jihad as the Islamic armies moved up through Europe  ".... according to one unidentified Arab, 'That army went through all places like a desolating storm.' sacking and capturing the city of Bordeaux, and then defeating the army of Duke Odo of Aquitaine at the Battle of the River Garonne - where the western chroniclers state, 'God alone knows the number of the slain'-[3] and Odo fled to Charles Martel, seeking help." Link 
 (link to this spot)

LOL I answered the other verses in my last post
These....
Matthew 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Are a since of urgency. What Christ is saying is when you see these things the end is that close, (that "END" being his return)
 and you want need to turn back for anything. That would also disprove your theory about all these things having already happened.

[Peter]

Why don't you share with us what you would like for Israel?
As much as your U.S. hat and curls guy would like to pretend that Jews and Muslims could live freely, side by side in the middle east, the difficulty is that Muslims don't seem to be able to do that anywhere in the world.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.msg4475#msg4475

[Peter]

I just browsed over your Olivet discourse and went to 24:19 You skipped a few verse then just made something up to fit YOUR way of thinking.  Which by the way is wrong. LOL Will the Muslim play there part in this end time scenario YES but not like you say they will. Did you happen to notice how long it took us to subdue Iraq by any chance? LOL

Matthew 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matthew 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Even beyond Judea these instructions would aptly apply to all of the fallen cities and states where Christians and Jews were slaughtered and enslaved by Muslims during the rape, pillage and plunder of the 152 years (5 prophetic months) of the imperialistic Islamic first Jihad conquest of nearly the whole world, until stopped in Tours France by Charles Martel in the Battle of Tours. 

The following report was chronicled near the zenith of the First Jihad as the Islamic armies moved up through Europe  ".... according to one unidentified Arab, 'That army went through all places like a desolating storm.' sacking and capturing the city of Bordeaux, and then defeating the army of Duke Odo of Aquitaine at the Battle of the River Garonne - where the western chroniclers state, 'God alone knows the number of the slain'-[3] and Odo fled to Charles Martel, seeking help." Link 
 (link to this spot)

LOL I answered the other verses in my last post
These....
Matthew 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Are a since of urgency.

As in get the heck out of Dodge or your 9 year old daughter will get pressed into sexual service in the harem of some Muhammadan.

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.  (Book #58, Hadith #236)

What Christ is saying is when you see these things the end is that close, (that "END" being his return)
 and you want need to turn back for anything. That would also disprove your theory about all these things having already happened.

[Michael2]

So sad that it has made you so blind to the suffering of our brothers and sisters around the world, that you took sides with their oppressors.
www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

The only thing that is sad is if their are more that believe like you do! And I have told you before about accusing. Lets not forget who is the accuser. It would appear you get mad because you don't understand and just accuse. I didn't take sides with any other than Christ!
Like I have said. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. This means ALL.

And let me ask you! What about the Christian Palestinians?? What of them. Not the Muslims but the Christians? Should we just disregard those because they do not say they are Jews?

And my mistake. I do not like Scofeild at all and I thought that is what you were referring to. So you have based your entire way of thinking on ONE mans BOOK which is Skolfeild? WOW Like I said I will trust the Lord you keep your book! But thank You for the clarification.

[Michael2]

Also... As far as what Paul said "sitteth". My bad. Jesus said Stand Paul said sit!
Makes no matter they are still talking about the same thing.

[Peter]

So sad that it has made you so blind to the suffering of our brothers and sisters around the world, that you took sides with their oppressors.
www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm

The only thing that is sad is if their are more that believe like you do! And I have told you before about accusing. Lets not forget who is the accuser. It would appear you get mad because you don't understand and just accuse.

You were the one that ignored virtually all of what I wrote - but no need to trouble yourself.
But to suggest I am mad would indicate that I am engaging in this chat for your benefit. I have chatted with enough anti-zionists to understand there is little point in that. Like this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKTyvIh2rN4

I engage in discussion with you, for the benefit of those anti-zionists that have begun to understand the difficulty with taking the same side, that happens to also be taken by Nazis, skinheads, Muslims, Hamas, the KKK and David Duke, and that part of the "church" that includes the Presbyterian Church (leaders that championed Hezbollah), World Council Churches (try the word "marxist" after it in your search), New England Conference United Methodist Church, with Anglican and Episcopal churches having considered divestment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_Israel#Churches

I didn't take sides with any other than Christ!
Like I have said. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. This means ALL.

And let me ask you! What about the Christian Palestinians?? What of them. Not the Muslims but the Christians? Should we just disregard those because they do not say they are Jews?

And of course confirming the risk in taking the side of the the false prophet Muhammad's followers (that behead Christians in Islamic countries for sharing the Gospel).

"Palestinian Christians lived free under Israeli rule but now are being slaughtered and run out of of town by their fellow Palestinian Muslims."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaYmPmoIpS8&feature=player_embedded#!
http://barenakedislam.com/2009/01/12/palestinian-christians-suffer-under-palestinian-rule/

And my mistake. I do not like Scofeild at all and I thought that is what you were referring to. So you have based your entire way of thinking on ONE mans BOOK which is Skolfeild? WOW Like I said I will trust the Lord you keep your book!

That study is consistent with the Reformers and others "of the former age" while your heresy is consistent with John Nelson Darby's 19th century heresy which was a modified version of 15th century Roman Catholic Jesuit Manuel Ribera's futurism that he created in an anti-reformation effort.

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/end_time_myth.htm

And how many share your uniquely embellished futurism?

But thank You for the clarification.

[Michael2]

And to clarify one more thing for the last time. I don't think I was too clear on this before.
What I said about you quoting the Quran. What I am saying is YOU believe Muhammad is the false Prophet yet you quote him like it is the Gospel.  If he were the false prophet which he is not. That would make him a liar. That is what the false prophet is!! Don't get me wrong here Muhammad is wrong but Not THE false prophet. It would be kind of like you quoting Satan as the Gospel truth. If you don't see the problem with that then you have more problems than I thought!
How can a Liar have any truth?
John 8:44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Why in the world would you take the word of a Liar as truth? 

[Peter]

And to clarify one more thing for the last time. I don't think I was too clear on this before.
What I said about you quoting the Quran. What I am saying is YOU believe Muhammad is the false Prophet yet you quote him like it is the Gospel.

No, as you well know I quote him to show Islam ignorant people like you that Muhammad professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
That the most egregious and only unpardonable sin in Muhammad's religion is committed when a Muslim confesses that Jesus is the Son of God.
And to show that Muhammad and his followers were among the blackest-hearted moral reprobates in the world.

I think with you mean is you wish is you had not come to learn the truth about Muhammadan Islam, because theirs is the side you have chosen when it comes to Israel.

  If he were the false prophet which he is not. That would make him a liar. That is what the false prophet is!!

That's why we don't quote is prophecy except to show it is false.
Yet you are eagerly awaiting your John Darby boogieman, just as Muslims are waiting for Muhammad's future boogeyman, because they believe Muhammad's prophecy.

Don't get me wrong here Muhammad is wrong but Not THE false prophet. It would be kind of like you quoting Satan as the Gospel truth.

I guess you didn't realize this, but when I quote the Quran I am quoting Satan. But to illustrate that it is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the truth.
But since you don't want to see that, I understand your confusion.

If you don't see the problem with that then you have more problems than I thought!
How can a Liar have any truth?
John 8:44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Why in the world would you take the word of a Liar as truth?

I don't other than to show how their own words incriminate them. Yet you effectively consider Muhammad to be a prophet because he called for a boogieman too. You don't have to look far on YouTube to find an abundance of Christians that actually use Muhammad's prophecy as support for Darby's "The" "Antichrist".

Your ignorance to Islam, is how you wound up running with Muhammad's followers, against the Israelis.

[Michael2]

Also I had to go and look this up because you kept accusing me of following Darby. Which I do not even know. LOL
However I think I may see YOUR confusion now. Is it the use of the word Rapture??
If so then I apologize. I do not like that word either. I ONLY use it because if you say the Gathering unto Christ the unlearned look at you  like your crazy.  Most everybody understands the word Rapture as the gathering. However FEW understand it is his second coming.
Most think of a rapture THEN the second coming later. LOL Which is why I keep warning you of the way you teach. It is THE SAME just backwards. I think the SDA teaches kinda the same thing.
Anyhow I went and Googled it and this is what I found on one site about his belief.

Origins of the Rapture

The Rapture seems to have been invented by a British religious figure named John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). He was ordained in the Church of Ireland and worked there to convert Catholics away from their folly. He was extremely pessimistic about what he saw as the state of the world and the state of the Church. He eventually left it, joining a dissident group called the Plymouth Brethren of which he soon became a prominent leader.

About 1830, he began teaching that Jesus’ coming at the end of time would be preceded by a “rapture of the saints.” Some members of his own Brethren community objected that this was not biblicaly founded, but Darby dismissed any criticism. It had, he claimed, been revealed to him by God.

That is just a small part of it. I can tell you beyond any doubt you are dead wrong! I do not believe what is in the above statement.
 I am still reading it. LOL it would appear that scofield used some of Darbys teachings. LOL and You think I think like that> ROTF
I have nothing to do with the Scofield.
Anyhow as I said YES we will gather unto the Lord. He will return to the mount of Olives and the second advent and not a day before.
That is nothing like I have seen of Darby. So Wrong again.
Did you know it also says he converted to Judaism later in life!

[Michael2]

Your ignorance to Islam, is how you wound up running with Muhammad's followers, against the Israelis.

I don't "run against Israelis" Just those that say they are Jews and do lie but are of the synagogue of Satan!
I don't know why that is so hard for you to get.
As stated MANY times now. I love our brother Judah. And the other 11 tribes.
You really don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Just assuming.
I don't need to know what the Muslim faith believes. Just my God!
You keep your Quran! and Ellis Skolfield. I will take the Bible! LOL


May be you could explain Rev 2:9 and 3:9 for me. I mean being I am so ignorant and all!

[Peter]

And to clarify one more thing for the last time. I don't think I was too clear on this before.
What I said about you quoting the Quran. What I am saying is YOU believe Muhammad is the false Prophet yet you quote him like it is the Gospel.  If he were the false prophet which he is not. That would make him a liar. That is what the false prophet is!!

And if we didn't investigate what he said we would just have to depend on the Muslims saying "We believe in Jesus and all the prophets"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2714.0

What reason would you have to doubt them? Indeed perhaps you believed them before you learned a little more about WHAT MUHAMMAD SAID which is what the ENEMIES OF NON-MUSLIMS BELIEVE.

But when we can see WHAT THEY REALLY BELIEVE which is WHAT THE FALSE PROPHET WROTE only then can we judge that Muhammad was  false prophet.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

That is what the lying antichrist said. So now we don't have to take his poor deluded followers word for it - who actually believe they believe in Jesus and all the prophets - but now we can discern that they believe the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

I can inform Islam ignorant people like you, that take Muhammad's followers side against the Israelis, exactly whose team you are really on.

Don't get me wrong here Muhammad is wrong but Not THE false prophet. It would be kind of like you quoting Satan as the Gospel truth. If you don't see the problem with that then you have more problems than I thought!

If you beat that dead horse one more time, any sane person reading this thread, will understand exactly who you just described.

How can a Liar have any truth?
John 8:44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Why in the world would you take the word of a Liar as truth?

I don't. I presented his lies that HIS FOLLOWERS FOLLOW so you could quit taking the word of his deluded followers of that liar as to what they THINK is the truth, so you could understand what they are actually required to follow, and see whose side you have taken against the Israelis. 

[Michael2]

Did you know it also says he converted to Judaism later in life!

Nope Sorry. I misread that. The guy that converted was a mentor of his! A Jewish convert was Darbys mentor imagine that.

[Peter]

Your ignorance to Islam, is how you wound up running with Muhammad's followers, against the Israelis.

I don't "run against Israelis" Just those that say they are Jews and do lie but are of the synagogue of Satan!
I don't know why that is so hard for you to get.
As stated MANY times now. I love our brother Judah. And the other 11 tribes.
You really don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Just assuming.
I don't need to know what the Muslim faith believes. Just my God!
You keep your Quran! and Ellis Skolfield. I will take the Bible! LOL

May be you could explain Rev 2:9 and 3:9 for me. I mean being I am so ignorant and all!

Back on this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg12938#msg12938
I wrote

"Why don't you share with us what you would like for Israel?
As much as your U.S. hat and curls guy would like to pretend that Jews and Muslims could live freely, side by side in the middle east, the difficulty is that Muslims don't seem to be able to do that anywhere in the world.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.msg4475#msg4475 "

So what do you think? Israelis should have waited for more than 2 years to try to interdict the rockets raining down on them?
Maybe give away more land in exchange for peace like they did Gaza, with Muhammadans immediately set up shop and raining those rockets down in Israel?
What is your plan?

[Michael2]

And if we didn't investigate what he said we would just have to depend on the Muslims saying "We believe in Jesus and all the prophets"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2714.0

What reason would you have to doubt them? Indeed perhaps you believed them before you learned a little more about WHAT MUHAMMAD SAID which is what the ENEMIES OF NON-MUSLIMS BELIEVE.

NO we can JUST depend on the word of God! That is enough for me and should be enough for you.
And No I do not and have never beleived as they do as you suggest. LOL
You are still assuming. things you know nothing of.

As far as beating a dead horse goes. Sometimes you have to spoon feed people like you to make them understand!

[Peter]

And if we didn't investigate what he said we would just have to depend on the Muslims saying "We believe in Jesus and all the prophets"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2714.0

What reason would you have to doubt them? Indeed perhaps you believed them before you learned a little more about WHAT MUHAMMAD SAID which is what the ENEMIES OF NON-MUSLIMS BELIEVE.

NO we can JUST depend on the word of God!

So then you are stuck believing them when they say they believe in Jesus.
And then can only sit there befuddled when they are responsible for over 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world just since 9-11.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Wondering why Muhammadans are responsible for the killing and displacing 2 million in the Sudan alone.
Why the new Muslim government killed 1,000 Christian on the Ivory Coast.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm
Why those so-called Palestinians were firebombing Christian homes (when those same Christians enjoyed protection under Israeli rule).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaYmPmoIpS8&feature=player_embedded#

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3414753,00.html
"'Christians must accept Islamic rule'
Militant leader in Gaza says missionaries will be 'dealt with harshly,' demands women wear headscarfs.
Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3414753,00.html

That is enough for me and should be enough for you.

You are the living proof that it should not be enough for anybody that wants to render an opinion about Israel. How could a person effectively witness to a Muslim if he didn't even know what they believed?
I recommend the book "Peace Child" if you don't understand the significance of finding a key in mission work.
Worse than that you would be stuck believing the falsehood they told you about what they believe.

And No I do not and have never beleived as they do as you suggest. LOL
You are still assuming. things you know nothing of.

That's because you repeatedly ignore my efforts to find out what your solution is for Israel.
Same as your solution for Sweden?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlG75wb7lLw

As far as beating a dead horse goes. Sometimes you have to spoon feed people like you to make them understand!

[Michael2]

That's because you repeatedly ignore my efforts to find out what your solution is for Israel.
Same as your solution for Sweden?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlG75wb7lLw

LOL really. As I said before WHO IS LEADING THIS.
Who are the ones SCREAMING racism!!
Since you like the videos so much HERE is one that tells us WHO is behind it. What are your thoughts about this video??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AOc4CfSYv4

[Peter]

Please read forum decorum. Members are required to engage in an exchange.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=35.0

For the third time.

Back on this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg12938#msg12938
I wrote

"Why don't you share with us what you would like for Israel?
As much as your U.S. hat and curls guy would like to pretend that Jews and Muslims could live freely, side by side in the middle east, the difficulty is that Muslims don't seem to be able to do that anywhere in the world.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.msg4475#msg4475 "

So what do you think? Israelis should have waited for more than 2 years to try to interdict the rockets raining down on them?
Maybe give away more land in exchange for peace like they did Gaza, with Muhammadans immediately set up shop and raining those rockets down in Israel?
What is your plan?

[Michael2]

So then you are stuck believing them when they say they believe in Jesus.

We have, according to scripture, ways to test the fruit of the spirit. Well that is if you have read. Did you.
Kinda of like the JW's when they say they also believe in Jesus but not in the physical resurrection. LOL
We can know with out reading their book. If it don't match the word you know what you are dealing with, and you know, you can find a lot about a person by just listening. Then you share the truth.
I don't know if you understand this or not. But it is not YOU that causes the seed to grow anyhow. We are to plant the seed. God will cause it to grow if he wants it to NOT US. In his own time I might add.
And I like very much to witness!

[Peter]

So then you are stuck believing them when they say they believe in Jesus.

We have, according to scripture, ways to test the fruit of the spirit. Well that is if you have read. Did you.
Kinda of like the JW's when they say they also believe in Jesus but not in the physical resurrection. LOL
We can know with out reading their book.

That's really funny coming from you. Here's some scripture on fruit

Mat 7:18    A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Yet you don't find it peculiar that your anti-zionist company includes Nazis, skinheads, Muslims, the KKK & David Duke, the Soviets and anti-semites of all stripes - even as you believe you have powers of discernment.

If it don't match the word you know what you are dealing with, and you know, you can find a lot about a person by just listening. Then you share the truth.
I don't know if you understand this or not. But it is not YOU that causes the seed to grow anyhow. We are to plant the seed. God will cause it to grow if he wants it to NOT US. In his own time I might add.
And I like very much to witness!