Email From Muhammad S Regarding the History of Mecca Website

[PeteWaldo]

Hello Mr. [redacted] and thank you for your email. I have embedded some responses to your points.

From: Mohammed S
To: "historyofmecca
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 6:52 PM
Subject: Lies concocted by infidels

Addressed to the trinity loving pagans who call themselves Christian,
1. God is One and Supreme.

Certainly all Jews and Christians agree with this.

God has no son as that is to say that God has biological qualities, which is typical of pagan lies.

Certainly no Jews, Christians or Muslims would ascribe biological qualities to God, however even Muslims believe that the virgin Mary conceived Jesus, solely through a direct act of God. How can a person have only a mother and not have a father? Regarding Jesus being the Son of God and God His Father, that is how the relationship is revealed through hundreds of verses in the Gospel.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm

Verses you must reject and do blaspheme, to follow the false prophet Muhammad alone.
Yet long after the Gospel had been translated into every major language, and had been copied tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries, Muhammad proclaimed:

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Sura 5:68 Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/index.htm

Here's just one of those hundreds of verses, that opens the Gospel of Mark:
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

2. Get your facts right.

I would appreciate your correcting anything that you believe to be wrong, most easily accomplished in the Islam-Christian Forum.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0

Your ignorant views about Islam might confuse people who have no knowledge, but not most of us.

If you have historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the 4th century AD, we would appreciate it if you would share that with us here!
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0

Your assertions about some demonic idol, star, moon and sun worshipping Arabs does describe pre-Islamic Arabs, but not Islam which destroyed such pagan worship, replacing it with the worship of the one, true God, Lord God, called Allah in Arabic.

Yet the Quraish pagan's Kaaba still stands. Are you suggesting that the Quraish pagan's black stone idol, toward which all Muslims prostrate themselves five times a day, is not the very same black stone idol that the Arabian pagans venerated before Muhammad was ever born?
If you write down all the reasons Muhammad's followers kiss that black stone idol, I think you may come to realize that is the same reason that Muhammad's followers follow him, as opposed to the [ONE true God of the Jews and Christians as revealed through ALL of His prophets and witnesses in the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind.]

3. Your current Bible is full of mistakes and contradictions. This is not the Word of God. Stop deluding yourselves!

I understand what you wish to believe, and what you have been taught to believe, but if you were really interested in truth you would honestly investigate the matter for yourself. we have a whole forum section dedicated to the subject of misconceptions of Muhammad's followers:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0

Indeed it is the Quran in which a whopping 71 out of only 114 surahs are subject to abrogation. Muhammad himself instituting the doctrine because of the massive amount of contradiction that he recognized, even during the brief period of 23 years in which he created it.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

4. If Islam is wrong, prove it:

Since you are replying to the History of Mecca website it should be painfully that Islam itself proves it since there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the 4th century AD, or its Kaaba before the late 5th century AD, or anything else that supports the geographical impossibility of Islamic so-called "tradition". Perhaps you missed the page on geography. I would appreciate it if you could answer the questions raised there.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca_islam.htm

produce a single chapter like that of the Qur'an.

How about something far more blessed, from hundreds of years before?
1John 4:4  Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.    5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.    6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.    7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.    8  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.    10  Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.    11  Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.    12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.    13  Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.    14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.    15  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.    16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.    17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.    18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.    19  We love him, because he first loved us.    20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?    21  And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

If it is inspired by such and such, well you do it.

Even you may be able to see that the above quote is inspired by the God of love of the scriptures. Here are a couple more:
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mark 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.  32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Prove it is a fraud.

Islam proves it in no uncertain terms itself. Besides the physical geographical impossibility of the matter, do you really believe the one true God of love would select a messenger that is revealed as Muhammad is, through your own books?

We've waited over a thousand years.

That is untrue. First off Islam is increasingly revealed during this information age, and the truth has emerged through the fog of 3rd world ignorance. There has been no "waiting" for truth by Muhammad's followers but aggressive attack against the truth. Islam has murdered voices of reason and truth for 1400 years. For heaven's sakes my friend, 20 Islamic countries even have laws against "apostasy" or leaving Islam, with most imposing the death penalty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Countries
Murder has always been the ultimate exit penalty for every dangeous cult. Banning Bibles and Christian materials in 52 mostly Islamic countries around the world, does not suggest "waiting" or even looking my friend, but rather running and hiding from truth.
http://www.persecution.com/public/restrictednations.aspx?clickfrom=bWFpbl9tZW51

Can't ?

I can easily continue to, through several websites, only one of which is History Of Mecca.com. Please join us in the forum. The last thing I would want is for a single word in any of those sites to be in error.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php

Then accept the Miracle Word of God.

I do. It is contained in the 1600 year record of revelation of the ONE true God YHWH, as revealed through ALL of His prophets and witnesses, that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years.

This Qur'an is above any limited entity,

The Quran is a stand-alone 23 year 7-th century record of a single, illiterate SW Arabian desert dweller, who proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
http://www.petewaldo.com/

which is why not a single human can produce a single line like it,

I already demonstrated to you the silly nature of such a claim.

even when they know it is 'just Arabic.'

Contrary to Muhammad's false claim, there are about a hundred words in the Quran that are not Arabic. Like the word "Injeel" which is Syriac.

So, it is the Word of Almighty God,

Sorry, but it is provably the word of Muhammad alone - exactly to the Word of the ONE true God of the scriptures - which is the same reason Muhammad's followers kiss the Quraish pagan's black stone idol.

the Last Testament. Accept the truth and stop propagating filthy lies.

Please point out a single lie.

Become a true believer in God, become a Muslim !

Sorry my friend, but it would be pure raw blasphemy against the one true God of the scriptures, and particularly against the prophet Jesus and His own prophecies of His crucifixion, death and resurrection, for me to even recite the Shahada.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

I'll pray for you my friend. The next time you prostrate yourself to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca, why don't you sincerely ask yourself - why?

[PeteWaldo]

PS - correction
I of course left out the world "contrary" and meant to write:

Sorry, but it is provably the word of Muhammad alone - exactly CONTRARY to the Word of the ONE true God of the scriptures - which is the same reason Muhammad's followers kiss the Quraish pagan's black stone idol. Because you follow Muhammad alone.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2656.0

Because of course Muhammad professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
http://www.brotherpete.com

May God bless you and lead you to THE truth:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[PeteWaldo]

From: Mohammad S
To: John Williams
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:07 AM
Subject: Inaccuracies

We agree that there is One God. However, the Bible and Torah are no longer 'scripture' as they have been changed over time, which has allowed inaccuracies and contradictions to be found by many, including Christian ministers who have studied the Bible in its old languages. So, it is no longer the uncorrupted Word of the Lord.

By Muhammad's 7th century the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, copied many tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. In that same 7th century Muhammad proclaimed:

Surah 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

So are you saying you are smarter than Muhammad was, for his having been so ignorant to the Gospel being corrupted, that he told Christians to go by what is revealed therein? Here's a link to many other such surahs:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/

I'm pleased to inform you my friend, that the Gospel is the same today, as it was in Muhammad's 7th century as it was in the first century, contrary to the lies and taqiyyah you have been fed.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/index.htm#bible_corruption

Yet 600 years after the Gospel was closed, Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. Here's a new website that should help.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/index.htm

However, the Qur'an far from being the word of Muhammad, challenges anyone to produce the like of it, even a single chapter.

Simply repeating something silly, won't make it magically came true. The verses at the following link to the Bible chapter 1John 4, that was penned over 500 years before Muhammad accomplishes what you request - in spades.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_love_of_god.htm

As opposed to the blasphemy of Muhammad's hate-filled alter-ego "Allah" who loves those who fight, also listed on that page.

Far from being the word of Muhammad indeed, since Waraqa bin Naufal can likely be credited as the author, along with Jabr and the rest of the crew.
http://www.petewaldo.com/quran_inspiration.htm

But Muhammad's Gnosticism most likely came from Waraqa:
http://www.petewaldo.com/simon_magnus_gnostics_ebionites_islam.htm

Far from being the words of God indeed, since Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel as revealed through all of the witnesses and Apostles of Jesus.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com

Muhammad and yourself spew blasphemy against the one true God of the scriptures, and all of His prophets and witnesses, as revealed through the scriptures that Jews and Christians consider the inspired Word of God - to follow Muhammad alone, through his heavily abrogated 23 year 7th century record - that is the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Muhammad s.a.w.s. was illiterate and this was common knowledge even amongst the infidels in Makkah. He didn't speak with that high class tongue, neither did he have the scientific or historical knowledge contained in the Qur'an. He could not have produced it.

Don't be silly. Muhammad wasn't deaf. His influences are well known - particularly Waraqa bin Naufal. His hearing and trying to remember all the falsehoods that were fed to him, and making them even worse through his memory, is how all of the grotesquely distorted blasphemy against the scriptures wound up in the Quran and Hadith. Indeed so often did Muhammad get a "revelation", soon after spending long hours with Jabr, that the Quraish nicknamed Jabr the "holy spirit"! Muhammad even had to invent a special "revelation" regarding jabr, in a transparently ridiculous effort at damage control.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

After all, the Qur'an is composed of words, a human language ......

A language that never even existed prior to the Christian era!
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2561.0

...... and as such any human who is competent in the language, must be able to produce a few lines to match the Qur'an.

As John very aptly did over 500 years before Muhammad.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_love_of_god.htm

Try it, using any experts in Arabic to help you.

Here's the same passage in Arabic. Please let me know if this is not 1John 4:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20john%204&version=ERV-AR

Or search for another Arabic Bible version website yourself. Also free Arabic audio versions of the Bible are available too. They will be easier for you to find since I don't speak Arabic.
Or you can try a video of the Gospel of John. Why not sit down with your wife and watch it and list all of the "corruption" that you spot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug2cn71CDeE

If you can't do it, know that this breaks nature and reality as it is the Word of the One, true God of the Scriptures and then follow it !

I do! And that Word is supported through the historical and archaeological records, that are consistent with the physical geography, and is further confirmed through fulfilled Bible prophecy, which can even be confirmed mathematically now that we are living in the "time of the end"!
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm

While lsamic "tradition" - that was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history, that was pulled from thin air without reference to any actual historical record that precedes the 5th century AD - is an epic failure through it's preposterous, history-devoid, scripture-contrary, archaeology-absent, reality-ignorant and physical geography-impossible account offered by Islamic so-called "tradition".

[name redacted]

May the good Lord bless you and help you overcome Muhammad, my friend.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com

[PeteWaldo]

From: John Williams
To: Mohammad S
Sent: Sunday, 18 August 2013, 23:02
Subject: Re: Lies concocted by infidels

replies embedded

From: Mohammad Syed <nazmulsyed@yahoo.co.uk>
To: John Williams <historyofmecca@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Lies concocted by infidels

John,

Sadly you carry many ignorant points which indicate a lack of ever actually studying Islam from Islamic sources and with understanding of actual context:

Then why don't you simply direct me to historical or archaeological EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the 4th century AD, while explaining the geographical impossibility of Islamic so-called "tradition"?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/evidence_for_islam.htm

This black stone is not an idol, but a crystal which came down when Adam came to Earth and has blackened with the sins of man.
We certainly do not bow to the stone, but to the One, true God of the universe.

It's the very same black stone idol that the Quraish pagans venerated as their moon god. If you don't think you venerate it, or prostrate toward it, then why do you have to kiss it or at least point to it, on each time around the Kaaba? The Hajj and Umrah are provably nothing more than thinly veneered Arabian pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

The kaaba is simply the direction of prayer as it was the first structure built to honour God, ......

So Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah" must live in the Kaaba! I'm glad my great God YHWH is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent!

....by Adam and then later by Abraham and Ismail after it was swept by the great flood of Noah. It was not to worship Idols until pagan Arabs took over control and they placed their filth inside and bowed to them. Muhammad s.a.w.s., being the Messenger of God took control for the monotheists after this, destroying all idols ........

That is a filthy lie that you have been trained to parrot. All BUT ONE so Muhammad could continue to profit off of the pagans Kaaba Inc.. Either you must believe that the black stone idol did not exist before Muhammad, or you must admit that it is the very same black stone idol that the pagans venerated before Muhammad. PERIOD.

....... and now the kaaba is devoid of a single idol or even picture.

Making that a lie as well. The Quraish pagan's black stone idol is embedded in the corner of it.

So, far from worshipping such things, we worship the One, true Lord of the Heavens and the Earth.

The one true God has always been against venerating idols such as the black stone.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0

As we can't all fit in the kaaba to worship Him, we pray to God from all over the planet, our prayer mats pointed to the House of God.

God doesn't live in a house my friend.
Act 17:24     God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

The FACT IS all you do is copy the Quraish pagan's rituals.

Finally, your so called attempt at producing a chapter like the Qur'an failed miserably for several reasons:
1. It is not Arabic, which is the language of the challenge. To forge it, you can't try in another language ! That fails, hands down.

2. The New Testament is not even in poetic style. So you haven't matched any chapter of the Qur'an, as they are !

That's ridiculous. Muhammad's Quran is a jumbled up incoherent mess. Rather than my just offering opinion, let's see what a leader in Qur'anic historical orthography (the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts) and Arabic paleography that the Yemeni government hired to study the oldest Quran says:

"My idea is that the Koran is a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants. The Qur’an claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen,’ or clear, but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur’anic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur’an is not comprehensible, if it can’t even be understood in Arabic, then it’s not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur’an claims repeatedly to be clear but is not—there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2576.0

I will not even bother to answer your other points which expose more ignorance on your part.

The fact is I know the reason you didn't "bother" is because it is a matter of fact that Islam is a preposterous, history-devoid, scripture-contrary, archaeology-absent, reality-ignorant and physical geography-impossible anti-religion cult, that follows Muhammad alone.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/evidence_for_islam.htm

Please don't talk of violent Muslims when history is full of the Church's murder of so many thousands of people all over Europe and the 'new world.' Hypocrisy !

But those black-hearted Popes also slaughtered CHRISTIANS. The fact is that any murder in the "church" was done EXACTLY CONTRARY to the Gospel, while the murder, conquest and subjugation of Islam is exactly and SPECIFICALLY SANCTIONED by the QURAN and hadith.

Quran Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

FIGHTING AND SLAYING NON-MUSLIMS IN "ALLAH'S" CAUSE IS BINDING ON MUHAMMAD'S FOLLOWERS IN THE QURAN! If you aren't out there doing it you will "die with one of the qualities of a hypocrite:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

Who do you think would win an argument between a "hypocrite" like yourself (according to fundamental Muslims that GET islam) with no basis to defend your false claims of Islam being a peaceful religion - or a true fundamental follower of Muhammad that disagrees with you, armed with a beheading knife in one hand, completely supported by the Quran and Hadith in his other hand?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

[name redacted]

[PeteWaldo]

embedded

From: Mohammad S
To: John Williams
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Lies concocted by infidels

John,

It appears you are not simply ignorant, but an unintelligent one at that ! Your propaganda, construed lies are quite shocking.

I put together a little PDF tract today, for Muhammad's followers to present to their Imams for some answers. Perhaps your Imam can answer them:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/m32.pdf

That is how the world must necessarily appear, to someone who follows the father of lies, through his "messenger" Muhammad - who proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. Please take a moment to view this webpage that regards not opinions as much as our respective books, as your eternal disposition depends on it:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/

My friend, you'll never find the truth if you never seek it out, and simply making a claim that I lie, doesn't mean it will magically come true, particularly since you were unable to support your false accusation altogether.

Why not educate yourself with actual Islamic doctrine and belief, since we are supposedly such and such, rather than spew out the ignorant garbage which you do so consistently ?

I have educated myself about Islam. That is what generated my websites. I recommend you do the same, including outside of the provably pure poppycock, of Islamic so-called "tradition". Why not start with Dr. Rafat Amari's 20 full-time study of Arabia and Islam? Many available articles available in the left sidebar of his site:
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/

1. Makkah existing is a fact for the tribes who lived there. They were generally a people of words and verbal poetry, rather than written. Hence your lack of written records.

Indeed. That's how we can know that the ENTIRETY of history-devoid, scripture-contrary, archaeology-absent, reality-ignorant and physical geography-impossible Islamic so-called "tradition", that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history - that was all created and put to the pen in the 7th-10th centuries without reference to any actual historical record from before the 6th century AD - is a work of pure fiction.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/evidence_for_islam.htm

This does not in any way counter Islam.

I agree. However from the ABSENCE of archaeological EVIDENCE we learn can rest assured that Mecca was settled by Arabian pagans. They were immigrants from Yemen in around the 4th century, building their Kaaba in the late 5th century.
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/construction.htm

The part you don't seem to be getting is that other Arabian towns north and south of Mecca, are very well attested in the historical and archaeological records of Arabia. Indeed Arabia has one of the best preserved archaeological records on earth since the low rainfall reduces the degradation of the evidence. Those ancient towns even attest to each other. But there is not a shred of archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD. Google it for yourself. Compare that with THE Holy Land of Israel where there are over a million artifacts on display.
Where are all of the ancient artifacts by those who were in Mecca as the poppycock of Islamic "tradition" suggests should date all the way back to Adam? Or even to Abraham? Or even to the 3rd century AD?

There would have been no way for anybody to survive the pastureless harsh climate of Mecca - one of the most hostile that even Arabia has to offer - before the trade route was well established so the town could survive through trade, and even that route wasn't established until over 1,000 years after Abraham in around the 6th century BC. That was also about the time Medina was established.

Why do you think that Mecca is not on the list with the other ancient towns of Arabia on this Wikipedia site?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Towns_in_Saudi_Arabia

The simple reason is because there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that suggests that Mecca is an ancient town, outside of the created lies you've been taught that were penned in the 7th-10th centuries AD..

2. Your obsession with moon, satan and black idols must come from your connection with the satan himself.

My obsession? You are the one that prosterates yourself to the very same black stone idol that the Quraish pagans venerated before Muhammad was ever born.

After all, we clearly have no record of such practice and hate such evil.

Yet you prostrate toward one five times a day. Whose "we"? You personally? The archaeological record tells us that Arabia was full of pagan worship sites and Kaabas where stones were venerated. You need to get educated my friend.

We do not house idols at the Kaaba.

I'm sorry, but it is a matter of fact that the Quraish pagan's venerated the very same black stone as representing their pagan deity, that Muhammad's followers venerate as representing your deity "Allah". There is certainly nothing in scripture where the one true God YHWH condones such a practice - but instead punished his people for the same. Yet there you are even prostrating yourself on the ground toward it five times a day.

The 'black' crystal is simply that, not divine nor shaped in any deity form.

Indeed the good Lord might have even arranged to have it smashed to pieces, but Muhammad's followers just stuck them back together and kept on venerating it. And before you try to argue against the term "venerate" I recommend you look it up in the dictionary.

Even the pagans never worshipped it.

The pagans VENERATED it as representing their pagan deity, just as Muhammad's followers VENERATE it as representing their deity "Allah". The only way for you to make a claim to the contrary, is to admit that it did not exist around in or around the Kaaba until the 7th century! Didn't you realize that when you wrote that?

And no stone or meteorite fetishes were about "worship" but about "veneration" of the object representing something else, so quit trying to confuse the subject.
The Quraish pagan's didn't "worship" idols, but venerated them as representing deities. Like the stones that were on al-Safa and al-Marwah that represented the most venerated priest and priestess in Arabian jinn-demon worship religion when they performed the Sa'ee. The pagan's story went that Asaf and Neilah had sex inside the Kaaba and as punishment, were turned into stone. Some of Muhammad's closest followers hated performing the Sa'ee for that very reason.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

They made idols for such purpose.

They made idols to venerate as well. And divined with arrows and much more. But Muhammad also saved a "Yemeni yellow rukin" stone to venerate (that the Quraish had also venerated), but eventually pared it down to just the one. Other stones were venerated at other kaabas around Arabia.

So your assertions are ridiculous, as anyone with understanding and knowledge of Islam would know.

Not at all. My assertions are supported by the historical and archaeological records, as well as Islamic so-called tradition. All you are doing is further admitting that your knowledge is limited to "Islam" - that is Islamic so-called "tradition". If you want to find the truth you have to include non-Islamic sources, since the history of Mecca didn't even begin to be recorded until around the year of Muhammad's birth (the "year of the elephant").

You are just brainwashed by your ministry !

I see. I'm "brainwashed" for following the one true God of the Bible as He revealed Himself through ALL of the prophets and witnesses in His 1600 year record of revelation to mankind, that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years. A record that is well supported by history, archaeology, physical geographically, fulfilled prophecy, and even mathematically.

While you follow Muhammad alone, through a violent, imperialistic, murderous, stand-alone cult, in an anti-religion that is demonstrably history-devoid, scripture-contrary, archaeology-absent, reality-rejecting, geographically-impossible YHWH/Jesus blaspheming Islamic so-called "tradition", that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history, yet was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 5th century AD.

Yet you suggest that I am the one that is brainwashed. Don't even you find that a bit peculiar?

In other words following Muhammad alone through thinly veneered pagan rituals, and his STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record that proclaims the EXACT OPPOSITE of the  WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, IS NOT an option as a path to

Yet you are the one that must reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses in the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, and believe the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, to follow Muhammad alone through his STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record and thinly veneered Arabian pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship rituals. Islam and Muhammad and yourself are exactly and specifically the very definition of ANTICHRIST. That spirit is what has destroyed your ability to have a love of truth.
1 John 2:22 .....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/#antichrist

3. The Qur'an has been accepted as astoundingly amazing by researchers with real understanding of Arabic, both by Muslims and non-Muslim experts, such as those at SOAS, University of London. Clearly, above any work done by humans. The language is clear and we understand it well.

The Arabic language is ridiculously ambiguous, but certainly not like it was in Muhammad's day, when the Arabic language was in its relative infancy. Not even having a written form until a few centuries into the Christian era.

Perhaps you should become literate and not stay in the dark !

Perhaps by the Muslims in England make those claims. And the Lord gave you the free will to believe that if you wish, yet a the leading Qur'anic historical orthography (the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts) and Arabic paleography that I quoted in the last email, suggests that one in five verses in the most ancient manuscript, simply don't make sense. Which Quran are you talking about? The paperback on your mantle?

4. Stop referring to Allah in an insulting way. It is the Arabic for the One, true God.

"Allah" was the PROPER NAME of an Arabian pagan deity that was worshiped before Muhammad was ever born. Worshiped by those that you already admitted were incapable of transmitting any history. For pity's sake, even Muhammad's own father was named "Abdullah" or slave of the Quraish pagan's deity "Allah". The archaeological EVIDENCE of the etymology of the name suggests it was the NAME of the Arabian pagan's moon god.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2265.0

The NAME of the ONE TRUE GOD of the scriptures is found in the tetragrammaton YHWH, as it occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture and in paleo-Hebrew inscription that dates as early as the 9th century BC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YHWH#Occurrences

In no way can Muhammad s.a.w.s. have produced the Qur'an, which even the pagans knew, .......

In fact what the pagans knew is that it was pirated and plagarized from Jabr and Waraqa bin Naufal and even some of the Quraish pagan's own father's writings.
http://www.petewaldo.com/quran_inspiration.htm

And also by the "angel of light" that harassed Muhammad in the cave:
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

........ due to the construction of the verses which no-one could produce, certainly not an illiterate desert dweller. He was known as trustworthy, even by his pagan enemies. He did not lie, unlike you !

 You can wish that were true, but that isn't the picture that scripture paints of Muhammad or yourself:

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Again, please review this web page. Where you wind up for all eternity may well depend on it:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/

[PeteWaldo]

My friend, Did you stop long enough to realize that the only "evidence" you have given for Islam thus far, is that your preference for a poetic lilt, even while it proclaims the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/
I transcribed our chat into the forum, while protecting your identity, to make it easier for you to review with active links.
If you would like to engage in a substantive point by point exchange, please feel free to join us there. My username is PeteWaldo.

[PeteWaldo]

From: Mohammad S
To: John Williams
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Lies concocted by infidels

Let me clarify the truth and expose your falsehood:

1. I reject your notion of this black stone idol, which I know you have concocted. No Muslim ever worships the black crystal ............

Do you see how the father of lies makes you continue to try divert the subject away from the truth? As already mentioned repeatedly, the Quraish pagans didn't worship their black stone idol either. They venerated it as representing their deity, It cannot be denied that Muhammad's followers venerate the very same black stone idol as representing your "Allah", that the Quraish pagan's venerated. Most likely representing their moon god "Allah". Even Muhammad's father was named Abdullah, or slave of the Quraish pagan's deity "Allah".

venerate
1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

You cannot deny you venerate the black stone, when you prostrate toward it five times a day, and are even compelled to travel to it, march around it, and kiss it or at least point to it on each circuit around the pagan's kaaba.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2444.0

.......and it has no connection with any idol or divinity.

Then why did the Quraish pagans venerate it before Muhammad was ever born? The simple fact of the matter is It IS an idol. The one true God of the scriptures is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. While you are prostrating toward the Quraish pagan's idol, the one true God is all around you - all the time.

It is just a stone made of minerals from Paradise, not an object of worship.

It is just a stone, and like any other stone, a non-Muslim would be more comfortable walking on it as kissing it. And if you wouldn't be more comfortable walking on that stone as kissing it, that means you VENERATE the Quraish pagan's stone. You respect and honor that stone. For heaven's sake, how can anyone be so blind?

venerate
1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

Now, we reject this and yet you hold onto the lie you have been brainwashed with.

Would you be just as comfortable walking on the Quraish's black stone, or not? I would be just as comfortable peeing on it, because it has nothing whatsoever to do with worship of the one true God of the scriptures. Venerating that stone is THE OPPOSITE of what pleases the one true God of the Jews and Christians.

That is fine as infidels cover the truth with falsehood.

You call others infidels, even as you venerate the Quraish pagan's black stone idol.

It is you who worship a man, Jesus as God or son of God, depending on your denomination.

That has nothing to do with denomination, because there are HUNDREDS OF VERSES in the Gospel that proclaim Jesus the Son of God and God His Father. It is Satan himself that compels you to reject those scriptures to follow Muhammad alone.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm

We are not worshippers of men nor stones.

Nor are we. We worship the one true God, through relationship with Jesus Christ.

If you want to believe what we do not, be free to do so.

Indeed. You certainly wouldn't catch me venerating a black stone idol, or running back and forth between al-Safa and al-Marwah the way the Arabian jinn-devil worshipers did.

http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

God will account you, no doubt !

Indeed He will. So let's look at the character of two men, whose names we invoke, when we worship God. When you recite the first pillar of Islam for example. This is a very important page, that I just uploaded yesterday:

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

We only worship the true Lord God, Allah.

Tragically, you have been deceived into worshiping THE OPPOSITE of the one true God, as made obvious on this web page.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/index.htm

[PeteWaldo]

2. Arab pagans did indeed worship Allah along with many false gods.

They worshiped "Allah" as their moon god. Muhammad even lifted Ramadan from the Sabian/Harannian moon worshipers. Why on earth do you think Ramadan begins and ends with the sighting of the crescent moon in the sky?

http://religionresearchinstitute.org/ramadan/roots.htm

Strange that they had an idol for each one, except Allah who is the True God Almighty.

You've been lied to by followers of the "messenger" of the father of lies. The available evidence suggests that "Allah" was their moon god. So does the etymology of the name "Allah" that the pagan's gave him.

After all you worship the Lord God, but that doesn't stop you worshipping his messenger,...

The Messiah is how the one true God of the scriptures revealed Himself to us, in a way we, as humans, could understand.

....his virgin mother,.....

Sorry, it is Muhammad's followers and Roman Catholics that venerate Mary. Heaven's sakes, the Quran devotes an entire chapter to her. She is not even mentioned in Christian worship outside the Roman Church. She was just a vessel.

..... or the holy spirit.

The Holy Spirit provides our only connection to God. We don't worship the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the means with which we are connected to God. When a person is born again we are filled with the Holy Spirit. It is God in us and we in God. We become God's people. Become part of the kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit is what we were given in place of Jesus.

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You worship the true God along with false ones, just like the pagans of that time.

So sad that Muhammad's followers are prevented from seeking the truth. Indeed murdered in many jurisdictions around the world. Why do you suppose that Muhammadans are compelled to murder even their own, for beginning a life in Jesus Christ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Countries

You follow a god of murder, mayhem and misery. Obviously and without question, in a sane person's mind, also known as Satan.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

Allah was not an idol !

That's right! Maybe you are beginning to understand this whole idol veneration thing. Allah was the moon god that was represented by the black stone idol. Just as it represents the Muhammadan's deity "Allah".

You are ignorant and your sources are clearly suspect.

My sources report the historical and archaeological EVIDENCE. Your sources report the pure fictional poppycock of Islamic so-called "tradition" that was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD, without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 6th century AD, yet it masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history that some folks are just stunningly ignorant enough to believe. Since you have demonstrated yourself as being incapable of understanding, 've prepared a list of questions for your Imam.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/ask_your_imam.htm

I even prepared a PDF that you can print out and hand to him.

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/m32a.pdf

A Christian wouldn't hesitate to hand a list of questions to a Christian pastor. If you would hesitate to hand this list to your Imam, it should clearly demonstrate to you that you, that you and your Imam follow the father of lies, through his "messenger" Muhammad.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/evidence_for_islam.htm

[PeteWaldo]

3. Makkah archaeology has not been documented by non-Muslims because you are not allowed to enter the holy city. It is not for infidels. That is why you have no records.

Can't you see how hilarious this whole deception is? "Gee, we have six thousand years worth of archaeological evidence, that supports 100% pure poppycock of Islamic so-called "tradition", that was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD!"
 

We on the other hand, know its history and have signs of Adam, Abraham and Ismail still there, but you would not know this as you can't visit ! So feel free to languish in your miserable ignorance.

My friend, can't you understand that all of those lies were created in the 7th to 10th centuries, without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 4th century? Let alone that Islamic so-called "tradition" is a geographical impossibility. Neither Abraham nor Ishmael nor Hagar, were ever within a thousand kilometers of where Mecca was eventually built in the 4th century AD.
Yet the accounts of the buffoonery of Islamic so-called "tradition" suggest - of the 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, unexplored, untraveled Arabian desert between Abraham's home in Hebron and Mecca:

"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/evidence_for_islam.htm

Does that seem reasonable to you? That Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael wandered across 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, dry, unexplored, untraveled desert - over a thousand years before a caravan route was established along the Red Sea in Arabia, and nearly a thousand years before the advent of camel transport - then Abraham dropped them off under a tree in Mecca, and then wandered 1200 kilometers back home?
This is why I want you to inquire of your Imam regarding these lies. Why not present him this PDF and ask him for answers? Your eternal destiny depends on it.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/m32.pdf

[PeteWaldo]

4. Muhammad s.a.w.s. was never anti-Jesus or anti-Gospel.

Muhammad was a blaspheming ANTICHRIST, as are all of his followers. Islam is the only anti-religion on the planet:

1 John 2:22..... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:

Please read that again. And the consequence of being an antichrist?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Far from it, he believed as we do, ..........

Exactly! Muhammad and you are antichrists. Why do you think his followers are murdering people all around the world? Because Satan, through his "messenger" Muhammad commands it of his true followers.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

....... in the original scripture and accepted the messiah.

By Muhammad's 7th century, when he told the people of the Gospel to go by what is revealed therein, the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, copied tens of thousand of times, and had been read all over the whole known world for centuries. It is the same Gospel we have today. Here is how Mark begins his witness:

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

You are on the bullet train to hell, my friend. Have you ever even read the Gospel that you say you believe in? How can you believe in something you've never read?

The famous entertainer and antichrist deceiver Ahmed Deedat proclaimed that the First Epistle of John confirmed Muhammad as a true prophet. Are you among his sheep that simply sit and clap, or are you interested enough to verify it through the very same version he taught from? Or watch the video at the top of this page if you don't want to scan it:

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/first_epistle_john.htm

Was Deedat right, or was he just another liar, for the "messenger" of the father of lies?

What he rejected is your forgeries which you called the old and new testaments, ......

Now you are calling your own "messenger" a liar. The scriptures are the same today as they were in the 7th century, when they had been read all over the whole known world. Indeed there were no Islamic books in Muhammad's day.
Here is what Muhammad said about what you are calling forgeries:

Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Many more such statements at this link:

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/index.htm

So you are calling your own "messenger", either a liar or a buffoon. Which is it?

...... where God's Word has been mixed with your lies and that of Saul the hypocrite. These Christian forgeries are anti-Gospel ........

They are the ONLY Gospel, my friend. The same today as they were in Muhammad's 7th century, and the same as they were in the 1st century. We have over 7200 partial or complete manuscripts of the Gospel that were penned before 300 AD.

....... and anti-Christ.

Yet tragically, it is those who follow Muhammad alone, that are exactly and specifically antichrist, as an article of their faith, in Muhammad alone.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/#antichrist

Let the messiah return from the Lord and correct your lies when he returns. He will break the cross.

Thank you for those words from straight out of the pit of hell and the father of lies. The fact is that Jesus broke the power of the cross in the first century, when He was crucified, died and was resurrected from the dead. Jesus conquered death itself. Just as prophesied in the old covenant:

Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it].

And confirmed in the new covenant:

1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

Yet because of Muhammad's buffoonery borrowed from Waraqa bin Naufal, you are compelled to believe that after living immortally for nearly 2,000 years, that Jesus will return, only to die and be buried next to Muhammad - whose corpse still lies rotting in its shallow grave.
Doesn't that strike even you as being a bit peculiar? That a person that has been immortal for nearly 2,000 years, will return to earth, only to die? You are headed to join Muhammad in hell my friend.

All you should have to do is compare the two that we follow. The sinless Messiah, or the sadistic, mass murdering, child doing, female prisoner abusing, Muhammad:

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

[PeteWaldo]

You have obviously failed to construct any challenge to the Qur'an, ........

Yet the only thing you could bring in its defense, was that it tickled your ears with a poetic stye. While I showed you that an expert opinion of the oldest Quran is that one in every five verses don't make any sense at all. That's a pretty big sacrifice for style!
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2576.0

Your hollow claims even as the content of the Quran is antichrist. While Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/

You can't even see how you are all stuck up in your lies, like being stuck on a tar baby. In defense of your veneration of the Quraish pagan's black stone idol you said:

1. I reject your notion of this black stone idol, which I know you have concocted. No Muslim ever worships the black crystal and it has no connection with any idol or divinity. It is just a stone made of minerals from Paradise, not an object of worship.

Can't even you see how the "vain repetitions of the heathen" in following the father of lies, have turned your mind and intellect into rendering you little more than a human parrot? Dithering on in what you have been taught, while having lost altogether the capacity for critical thought?

Which is it my friend? Just a stone, or a stone from Paradise?
If you wouldn't be just as satisfied to piss on it, as to prostrate yourself toward it five times a day, then YOU VENERATE the Quraish pagan's black stone - PERIOD.

venerate
1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

......... after all you can't as it is the Last Testament sent from God Almighty.

Muhammad's Quran was quite demonstrably sent from straight out of the pit of hell by Satan himself. All a sane or rational person has to do is just consider Muhammad's character:

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

Jesus healed the lame so they could walk:

Matthew 21:14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.

Muhammad brought lameness to the walking:

Bukhari V4 B52 #261 "...they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off." (video)

Jesus brought sight to the blind:

Matthew 15:30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them [those that were] lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them:

Muhammad brought blindness to the seeing:

Bukhari V4 B52 #261 "Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina)."

Jesus was crucified:

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

Muhammad crucified:

Quran 7:124 "Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one."

Jesus brought the dead back to life:

John 12:17 The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.

Mohammed mass murdered the living:

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Abu Dawud 38:4390 Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger of God commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

Ishaq:465 "Then the Apostle divided the property, wives, and children of the Qurayza among the Muslims. Allah's Messenger took his fifth of the booty. He made known on that day the extra shares for horses and their riders - giving the horse two shares and the rider one. A Muslim without a horse got one share of the spoil. It was the first booty in which lots were cast."

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

Bukhari:V5B59N459 Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus."

Ishaq:480 "The Qurayza met their misfortune. In humiliation they found no helper. A calamity worse than that which fell upon the Nadir befell them. On that day Allah's Apostle came to them like a brilliant moon. We left them with blood upon them like a pool. They lay prostrate with the vultures circling round."

Ishaq:204/ Tabari VI:134 "'Men of the Khazraj, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man.' 'Yes,' they answered. 'In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging ourselves to wage war against all mankind.'"

Ishaq:472 "Muhammad's Companions are the best in war."

Ishaq:475 "Allah commanded that horses should be kept for His enemy in the fight so they might vex them. We obeyed our Prophet's orders when he called us to war. When he called for violent efforts we made them. The Prophet's command is obeyed for he is truly believed. He will give us victory, glory, and a life of ease. Those who call Muhammad a liar disbelieve and go astray. They attacked our religion and would not submit."

Who are you trusting your eternity to?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

Consider Muhammad's behavior, and that which he inspires in his true followers:

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

The Gospel is fine as the Qur'an accepts it.

The Quran is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. The Quran is pure blasphemy against the Gospel. The Quran IS ANTICHRIST.

Your forged writings ..........

So call your "messenger" a liar or a buffoon. That's up to you.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/

........ in the current 'Bible' is what the Qur'an opposes.

Same Bible as in the 7th century when Muhammad said it was kept "pure and holy".
However Islam does indeed, oppose the love of the one true God as revealed in the scriptures, for the murder, mayhem and misery demonstrated by 1400 years of Islamic history.

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_love_of_god.htm

Here are some former followers of Muhammad who have come to know the love of the ONE true God, through a relationship with Jesus Christ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tds8--EOEsk&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLB1CA6B8C46E6F630

Even the Eastern Gospel of Barnabas, by a Christian, opposes your 'gospels' forged in the western world.

Do you see how the father of lies will have you buy into, and repeat, any lie against the Gospel that comes along? Just as long as it pushes you away from the true Gospel?
The so-called Gospel of Barnabas is a 16th century Muhammadan forgery. It even uses Muhammad's name. It's one of the more popular pages on this site:

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_barnabas.htm

And this gospel that you wish were true quotes Jesus as saying: The Gospel of Barnabas Chapter 97: "Then said the priest: "How shall the Messiah be called, and what sign shall reveal his coming?" Jesus answered: "The name of the Messiah is admirable, for God himself gave him the name.....Muhammad is his blessed name.""

So do you believe that Muhammad was the Messiah? Do you see how casually Satan made you parrot a lie from straight out of the pit of hell, just so you can make even more excuses to reject the Gospel, and remain an antichrist that follows Muhammad alone?

Greek orthodox, Russians, etc. even do. So, your esteemed book just doesn't pass as the word of God, not close !

Yet you choose a 16th century Muhammadan blasphemous forgery of the Gospel - that even proclaims Muhammad to be the Messiah! - as long as it will allow you to continue to prostrate yourself toward the Quraish pagan's black stone five times a day, and travel to Mecca to engage in thinly veneered Arabian pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals. Your eternal destiny is at stake my friend. Forever is a very, very long time.

http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You could die today, my friend, and stand in judgment by the very Son of God that you blaspheme:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

C.S. Lewis wrote: "God is going to invade this earth in force. But what's the good of saying you're on his side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else, something it never entered your head to conceive comes crashing in. Something so beautiful to us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left. This time it will be God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love, or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down, when it's become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realize it or not. Now, today, in this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last forever; we must take it or leave it."

I'll pray for you my friend. In the meantime why don't you read the Gospel, instead of remaining in self-imposed ignorance to it? Don't you trust God to show you whether it is the truth or a lie?

Sura 4:157 .....The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Can't you trust in God to show you the truth?

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

[PeteWaldo]

No Muslim can deny that the Quraish pagans continued to venerate their black stone and circumambulate their Kaaba, shoulder to shoulder with Muhammad's followers, when Muhammad kicked the poor pagans out of their own ritual:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689: Narrated Abu Huraira: In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'

http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#twaf

Kicking the poor pagans out of their own ritual! And can you imagine a bunch of naked pagans and Muslims circumambulating the kaaba? What a sight that must have been!
Maybe this video will help you see just what you are up against. Forever is a very long time, my friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEro81ygXQ

[PeteWaldo]

Let me answer your brainwashed lies with actual truth, which you appear to not understand, due to Satan's hold over your thinking. We worship God, not satan and others, like you do!

1. You are one of the most ignorant Christians I have ever conversed with. Even they are not dim enough to think that Muslims worship or venerate a black stone as a representation of a diety. Only your sect could be that pathetic ! You lie when you say that I would not stand on the stone. If it were on the floor, .......

Very unusual Muslim to proclaim he would trample Islam's sacred stone! So then I gather that you wouldn't hesitate to pick it up, put it down on the ground, and piss on it either? Or to piss right into that tin female part looking thing that houses it? What do you suppose your own brethren would do to you at the Hajj, if you stuck your foot into that thing, and onto the stone, instead of kissing it? Like the terrorist that is about to kiss it.

...... Muslims would have no issue with that, except perhaps that they may not stand on all things, even those not venerated, such as your head ! For the final time (hopefully) I will declare that at no point in time / history was the black stone a representation of any deity.

Well then why don't you please explain just what the Quraish pagan's were doing with their black stone.

It is not a moon-God, you brainwashed fool !

Perhaps the moon and then the sun god. It's a cinch they didn't venerate it as representing Abraham!
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

"We know that the term "Allah," as the god of the moon, was derived from the Thamud god of the moon. His name was Hilal, or Hlal, which means "crescent." Later, the name "Hilal" became Hilah, as we see in many inscriptions which were found in Arabia. In the Thamud inscriptions he is found as H-ilah, Ha-ilah and H-alah. We see the same development for "Hilah," the moon deity in Yemen, where Almaqah is called "Halal,' or "Hilal, the Crescent." 15

Safaitic tribes were nomads wandering in many parts of Arabia, especially in the north. The god of the moon was found in their inscriptions as "H-lah." in the Safaitic inscriptions, the letter "H" pronounced as "Ha" is the definite article, "the." It corresponds to the Arabic, "Al."16 This led the Arabians to call him "Al-lah."

The big Star Athtar - Venus - Replaces the Moon for the Title of "Allah"

From the Thamudic inscriptions, we know that Venus worship endeavored to overshadow the worship of other deities of Arabia, willing to impose itself as the monotheistic worship of northern Arabia. The worshippers of "the big star' even underestimated the worship of the other members of the Star Family, such as the worship of the wife of the head, Ellat, which represented the sun, or the worship of the moon itself. Over time, Venus stole the title of "Allah" from the moon. Both the moon and the sun became subjects to Allah, the biggest star. We encounter this concept in the Qur'an, where it says:

He subjected the sun and the moon till they say Allah. (Sura 29:61)"
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0

The information is all there for the learning, my friend. Even the Quraish did not think their idols were gods. They represented their gods. Like gods of the moon, sun, stars, and in the case of the two stones they kept on al-Safa and al-Marwah, idols of the most venerated preiest and priestess of the Arabian jinn-devil religion. Why don't you try to educate yourself?
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/roleoftemple.htm

The Quraish pagan's believed that one of their pagan deities sent the stone down from the heavens, just like you do. Indeed throughout mankind's history meteorite veneration and stone fetishes are not unusual. It's ridiculous for you to actually believe they would keep a stone around for no purpose. So are you saying that Muhammad just picked the stone up off of the ground and then started venerating it? That Muhammad was the one that started the veneration of the black stone?

We do not prostrate to that, but only to God Almighty .....

But sadly, God does not live in Mecca. Only the Quraish pagan's deities were represented there.

.....and He has instructed us to make the House of worship at Makkah, with the kaaba as a direction of prayer.

Sorry, but it was Satan alone that instructed that, through his "messenger" Muhammad.

2. Your Moon obsession is crazy. Where did you get this notion from ?

My friend, Muhammad even mentions Allah's godesses in the Quran, in the satanic verses. Muhammad even worshiped them for a time, in order to try to get the Quraish pagans on board with his new cult.
Tabari VI:108/Ishaq:165 ....And when he came to the words: 'Have you thought about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat.' Satan, when he was meditating upon it and desiring to bring reconciliation, cast on his tongue, because of his inner longings and what he desired, the words: 'These are exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses). Verily their intercession is accepted with approval."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2274.msg9689#msg9689

The Semitic, including Arab tribes used the moon to measure time, in terms of months and Muslims never consider it for worship.

If you are denying that the Arabian pagan's worshiped gods of the moon, sun and stars, you are either stunningly ignorant, or you have reduced yourself to more taqiyyah.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1140.0

"The Kaabah of Mecca was  one of many Kaabahs that  were  branches of the Kaabah of Taif;  It was of  the same building style and had the same religious pagan functions.

Islam is a form of the Arabian Star Family worship of Mohammed’s time. The veil which tries to hide this reality falls when we study the roots of the Islamic religion.

   Ibn Abbas, the cousin of Mohammed, and one of the reporters of the tradition of Mohammed, called Hadith, speaks of two pilgrimages of the Quraish tribe. One of the journeys was to the city of Taif.[1]

    At Taif there was also a temple called Kaabah of Ellat, or Kaabah of the Sun.  This Kaabah was more significant and much older than the Kaabah of Mecca.  All Arabs, including the tribe of Quraish from which Mohammed came, venerated this Kaabah. The Kaabah of Taif was identical to the Kaabah of Mecca, and it had the same religious functions."
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/star.htm

You are either brainwashed with falsehood or deluded.

My friend, it is you who rejects the one true God of the scriptures, to follow Muhammad alone through the spirit of antichrist.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/

And follow him through thinly veneered Arabian pagan Star Family and jinn-devil worship.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

Follow him by ignoring history, archaeology, geography and reality, until your intellect becomes the equivalent of an illiterate 7th century SW Arabian desert dweller.

3. As for the reports about Abraham, this is well known and proof still exists in Makkah. I have seen it, so it doesn't sound strange, but to a brain dead idiot it may do. Artefacts still remain intact......

My friend, simply parroting something won't make it magically come true. It is becoming increasingly difficult to determine where your delusion leaves off, and your taqiyyah begins. We can know that you have never seen such "proof", because no such proof can exist, because it is a GEOGRAPHICAL IMPOSSIBILITY that Abraham was ever where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/evidence_for_islam.htm

...... there and records did not exist before 7th century as Arabs did not write history before then, they made verbal literature about it, which non-Muslim Orientalist experts know about.

So now the same ignorant pagans you denegrate as being incapable of making a historical record, you now wish to credit with handing down 4500 years of oral history about Abraham! 4500 years of oral tradition about Abraham, through the fog of their 360 idols and jinn-devils! Well done!

Do you understand how ridiculous such a suggestion is? But just like all Muslims when they get their hand caught in the cookie jar, you refuse to answer the hard questions, my friend. Why don't you take the quiz that I put together for your Imam?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/ask_your_imam.htm

Start with this question:

How was Ishmael able to travel back across 1200 kilometers of unexplored, untraveled, harsh, barren desert wasteland, in time to join his brother Isaac for their father Abraham's burial in Hebron. How did he get to Hebron in a couple of days, over a thousand years before there was a caravan route along the Red Sea, and nearly a thousand years before the advent of camel transport according to a Saudi website.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3631.msg14848#msg14848

How did Ishmael make it in time to join Isaac to bury Abraham, 1200 KM away in Hebron?

Obviously you are no expert ! You just spew out lies which you have been brainwashed with.

I will be the first to admit that I am no expert. That's why I rely on, and quote, experts. Like from Dr. Rafat Amari's 20 year full-time study of Arabia - and Islam, mainly from Islam's own books.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0

[PeteWaldo]

I will answer your latest lies with some actual facts:

Since you've chosen to ignore my more important replies to you, I will be expending less time and effort in writing, and more providing of links. After all, that's what the forum is there for. To aid Muhammad's followers that are lurking the forum, that are actually seeking out truth. And I appreciate your joining me in helping them overcome Islam in this effort.

1. The Qur'an makes proper comprehension. If it didn't, then all of these Muslim and non-Muslims would not have been able to translate it. Yet they did and it is understood all over the world.

The Quran did eventually evolve into a state in which it was rendered, at least a little, less unintelligible than the oldest Quran. Muslims have been taught that the Quran is unchanged, but even the Arabic language isn't the same today as it was in the 7th century.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2576.0

So, it does make sense, but perhaps not to satan worshippers, as they are deluded with lies ! Still you fail to meet the challenge set by God ! Accept the truth over your forged 'bible.'

I showed you how the love of the one true God is revealed through the scriptures, and you wish it were more poetic. I show you the antichrist hatred and reprobate nature of the mass murdering prisoner rapist that you follow, and it doesn't even phase you.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

Bukhari:V5B59N459 Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus."

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

God gave you the free will to follow Jesus, or Muhammad. Forever is a very long time, my friend.

2. You can deny the truth as much as you wish, but I have spoken to many people who disagree with your trinity lies, even your false assertions about Jesus, even when they be Christians.

It isn't about me. It is about the hundreds of verses in scripture that proclaim the Son of God and His Father. Hundreds of verses that antichrist Muslims must deny.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm

They believe in Orthodox doctrine, some in the Gospel of Barnabas, which they do not consider to be concocted,......

Sure. Orthodox Christians believe that Muhammad was the Messiah as the 16th century Muhammadan forgery of the Gospel of Barnabas teaches.
Can't even you see how Satan, the father of lies, has perched himself on your tongue, just as he did Muhammad's?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_barnabas.htm

..... and they see through the western falsehood concocted during the Nicean creed conference. You are just one Christian sect amongst dozens and they clearly disagree with you !

Simply parroting a lie won't make it magically come true, My friend. We have 5300 partial or complete manuscripts of the Gospel, in many languages, that predate Nicea, and they all attest to the Son of God and His Father.

3. You are too dim to understand a simple fact: Muhammad s.a.w.s. and true believers accept the original Gospel, which we believe in, ........

But tragically, to follow the false prophet Muhammad, Muhammadans must reject the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/

The WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0

....... but we oppose your forged version(s) of contemporary times, .......

Do you see how silly this is? You are suggesting that the tens of thousands of copies of the Gospel, in every popular language, that had been read for centuries around the whole known world by Muhammad's day, were somehow all erased and replaced with a Gospel that is UNIFORMLY consistent, in every language. This is what I mean when I say Muhammad's followers must dull their intellect and capacity to think critically, until it becomes that of a 7th century SW Arabian desert dwelling illiterate.

........ which propagate heathen worship of men and mix God with creation, just like the Greek and Roman pagans did, who you stole the trinity from.

If you do not become a true believer in the One God, Allah, Lord of the universe, and accept His true message, then I look forward to seeing you burn in Hell from Paradise, where the view is good ! Then we will see who roasts. Let us both wait for that day. I am ready !

You poor deluded, brokenhearted, soul. Rather than looking forward to your roasting in hell along with Muhammad, I will pray the good Lord leads you to the truth, the way he does 6 million Muslims every year, in Africa alone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7pALeYGk6o

http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[PeteWaldo]

How did Ishmael travel across 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, unexplored, untraveled desert, over a thousand years before a caravan route was established along the Red Sea, and nearly a thousand years before the advent of camel transport, in time to join Isaac to bury Abraham in Hebron?

[PeteWaldo]

3. You are too dim to understand a simple fact: Muhammad s.a.w.s. and true believers accept the original Gospel, which we believe in, but we oppose your forged version(s)....

By Muhammad's 7th century the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, copied many tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. In that same 7th century Muhammad proclaimed:

Surah 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

So are you calling Muhammad a liar, or a buffoon? Which is it?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/#bible_corruption

[PeteWaldo]

Points of fact:

1. The Qur'an was understood in the original as it is today: properly, as the words are still unchanged and true, unlike your doctored lies in current Bible !

2. I am not phased by your quotes as you have described many punishments of state. They are meant to be hard. Capital punishments around the globe, such as electric chair, lethal injection and hanging, are to me much more gruesome. So keep you hypocrisy to yourself and feel alarmed at what Christians have done in history, in the name of God.

3. You can term Muhammad s.a.w.s. as you wish, but that just shows your lack of class and your ignorance. It does not change the facts: he s..a.w.s. came with the message of the one God and it is still true and pure, completely proof that it is from God is the fact that even intelligent people and those who are not, such as yourself, have all failed to produce a legitimate challenge to even a single chapter of one or two lines ! Pit of Hell is for infidels like you, not for true believers and messengers, like Muhammad s.a.w.s. How I await when you eat your insults, burning away, unless God guides you to the truth and away from your falsehood, which looks highly unlikely, given your wish to remain ignorant and hateful of the truth.

How did Ishmael travel across 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, unexplored, untraveled desert, over a thousand years before a caravan route was established along the Red Sea, and nearly a thousand years before the advent of camel transport, in time to join Isaac to bury Abraham in Hebron?

[PeteWaldo]

Points of fact:

1. The Qur'an was understood in the original as it is today: properly, as the words are still unchanged and true, unlike your doctored lies in current Bible !

Simply repeating a lie won't make it magically come true. Now why don't you provide an answer to my question that you ran away from like a little girl?
I pointed out that by Muhammad's 7th century the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, copied many tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. In that same 7th century Muhammad proclaimed:

Surah 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

So are you calling your own prophet Muhammad a liar, or a buffoon, for having been so ignorant to the Gospel being corrupted?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/#bible_corruption

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

2. I am not phased by your quotes as you have described many punishments of state. They are meant to be hard. Capital punishments around the globe, such as electric chair, lethal injection and hanging, are to me much more gruesome.

But the question is what did Jesus do, and what did Jesus command?

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

So keep you hypocrisy to yourself and feel alarmed at what Christians have done in history, in the name of God.

So anyone who pretends to be a Christian, but behaves in a manner other than that prescribed by the Gospel, like some black-hearted popes, isn't a Christian. It isn't like Islam where someone simply says the shahada and he's a Muslim. To be a Christian one must be born again, through a conversion of the heart.

3. You can term Muhammad s.a.w.s. as you wish, but that just shows your lack of class and your ignorance.

No it shows a clear understanding of how Muhammad was revealed through Islam's own books. As an imperialistic, mass murdering, child doing, female prisoner abusing, thief. You cannot deny a single one of those characterizations. For heaven's sakes, he assigned to himself 1/5 of all the property stolen from others, just like a Mafia Don:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

It does not change the facts: he s..a.w.s. came with the message of the one God and it is still true and pure, completely proof that it is from God .......

But as i have shown you it cannot be from God because the false prophet Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of that revealed by the one true God of the scriptures.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/index.htm

........ is the fact that even intelligent people and those who are not, such as yourself, have all failed to produce a legitimate challenge to even a single chapter of one or two lines ! Pit of Hell is for infidels like you, not for true believers and messengers, like Muhammad s.a.w.s.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEro81ygXQ

How I await when you eat your insults, burning away, unless God guides you to the truth and away from your falsehood, which looks highly unlikely, given your wish to remain ignorant and hateful of the truth. 

Yet I follow the ONE true God YHWH, as revealed through ALL of His prophets and witnesses in His 1600 year record to mankind, that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years.

While you follow Muhammad alone, through thinly veneered Quraish pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1140.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1267.0
Why on earth do you think Ramadan begins and ends with the crescent moon in the sky?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1571.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1209.0

[PeteWaldo]

"John,
Let me be very clear. I do not feel that these discussions are productive....."

Yet for me I was just going to thank you, for bringing into sharp focus, the importance of including a page covering the subject of the history of the Quran, on the new website. So I just spent 10 hours straight on my first draft and uploaded it to this link on the new site.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/history_of_the_quran.htm
I will read and reply to the rest of your email when I am a bit less exhausted from staring into a computer and writing!

[PeteWaldo]

John,

Let me be very clear. I do not feel that these discussions are productive or advancing correctly. I have discussed with many different people, Christians and others and although some of them disagreed with me, .........

My friend, how can a Christian do other than "disagree" with the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel?
How can a Christian do other than "disagree" with Muhammad's and your pure blasphemy against the Son of God?
The Christians that you chat with are in all likelihood as ignorant to the Quran, as your emails demonstrate you are to the Gospel.

......... while others converted to Islam, .......

A Christian cannot convert to Islam, because a Christian cannot be deceived by a false prophet.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Only someone who had deceived himself into believing he had been a Christian could be fooled into following Muhammad. Like someone who thinks they became a Christian when they were baptized at birth. that's why most of such were Roman Catholics that followed their priest rather than Jesus Christ.

....... there was a level of respect and polite manners.

I know how the conversation went. Each was ignorant to what the other believed because neither of you had read the others book. I'm saving you the trouble of having to beat around the bush.

Did you tell them that Muhammad compels you to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel?
Did you tell them that Muhammad compels you to blaspheme and DENY the Son of God and to REJECT the blood He shed for us all for remission of sin?
Did you tell them that you must believe that each and every Christian over a period of nearly 2,000 years has lived and died in a state of committing Muhammad's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE sin and that they would be better off going out and raping children or mass murdering school rooms full of children, than to confess that Jesus is the Son of God or even pray in Jesus name?
Did you tell them Muhammad compels you to REJECT the hundreds of verses that proclaim that Jesus is the Son of God and God His Father?

Your general nature appears very belligerent and full of hate, ......

I am called to love the things that God loves, and hate the thing that God hates, like nicolaitanism, and doctrines of demons from false prophets like Muhammad - who proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. I am called to preach Christ crucified, and if your Christian acquaintances aren't, they are doing you an disservice.

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

It might not even be so bad that Muhammad is leading his people straight to the pit of hell, if he hadn't commanded them to conquer and subjugate everyone else in the world, to denying the Son of God and rejecting the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

That isn't having some ancillary "disagreement' around the edges my friend. According to the scriptures you are following THE false prophet Muhammad straight into the pit of hell.

........ which is not conducive for a healthy discussion on truth and knowledge.

Avoiding the truth is what is not "healthy" for such a discussion. The God of the scriptures YHWH, and the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" are mutually exclusive, as they profess the opposite. Even Muhammad knew it was a demon that met him in that cave. His wife Khadijah talked him out of it. So the real reason you follow Muhammad, is Khadijah.

Despite my disagreements with you and the fact that I feel your points are weak .....

You see how your have lost your capacity for critical thought?
To suggest that it is a "weak point" to point out to you that the false prophet Muhammad compels you to believe the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel?
A weak point to point out to you that you blaspheme the Son of God?
You think it is a "weak point" that mecca never existed prior to the 4th century AD, or the pagan's kaaba prior to the late 5th century, even though that alone, throws the entirety of Muhammadan 7th-10th century created fictional poppycock, that you are stuck calling "tradition", right out the window.

A "weak point" that Islam is a violent, imperialistic, murderous, anti-religion, with a history-devoid, scripture-contrary, archaeology-bankrupt, reality-ignoring, geographically-impossible Islamic so-called "tradition", that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history, yet was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 6th century AD.

A weak point that you follow Muhammad alone, through thinly veneered Arabian pagan rituals, and his STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record that proclaims the EXACT OPPOSITE of the  WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, that IS NOT a path to the one true God of the Jews and Christians as He revealed Himself through ALL of the prophets and witnesses in His 1600 year record of revelation to mankind, that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years. A record that is well supported by history, archaeology and fulfilled prophecy, that is consistent with the physical geography, and can even be confirmed mathematically.

Rather, by all indications, Islam is a path to the EXACT OPPOSITE.

....... and do not challenge me like other discussions I have had with Christians and socialists,........

That's funny "Christians and socialists". Like Muhammad's buffoonery of lumping together "Christians and Sabians"! Those are all different things my friend.

What you mean is you failed to meet the challenge of presenting some historical and archaeological EVIDENCE that can suggest that Mecca ever existed before the pagan's settled the area in the 4th century, and built their kaaba in the late 5th century for pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship.
You failed to explain how it makes sense to reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses of as revealed in the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, whose people have followed him through two covenants for 3500 years, to follow a STAND-ALONE illiterate 7th century false prophet who proclaimed the exact opposite, while compelling you to engage in thinly veneered pagan Arabian Star Family and jinn-devil worship rituals, and prostrate yourself to the Quraish pagan's black stone and Kaaba five times a day.

....... who made points where I had to do proper research to respond to them, .......

So where is the history of Mecca that you researched? Do you understand that the reason you can't consider that a point worth researching, is because you already know for a fact that there is no history of Mecca prior to the 4th century AD, except in the minds of the men who created the fiction that you call "tradition" in the 7th to 10th centuries AD, without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 6th century AD.

....... I feel that Almighty God will not be pleased with my tit for tat insults and therefore, I wish to end this here.

The thing about our chat that really displeases the ONE true God of the scriptures isn't about attitude but THE FACT that you BLASPHEME the Son of God and DENY the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
                         
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
                   
2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I prefer to speak to Christians who display 'Christian manners,' which I have experienced when speaking to chaplains and common folk, here in England.

No doubt because they remain as blissfully unaware of the Quran and pagan traditions of Islam, as you do to the Gospel.
Have you ever even read the New Testament?

Here we may disagree, but we do not insult each others's belief.

How can pointing out that the false prophet Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel be taken as other than an insult? How can pointing out Muhammad's blasphemy against the Son of God be taken as other than an insult?

What you don't understand is that the prophesied apostasy of the church has been in full swing in Europe for generations. All this sitting around a campfire and singing koom bye yah is not fruitful. "All roads lead to heaven" "Gee can't we all just get along?".
What they don't realize is that you are commanded by Muhammad to conquer and subjugate them, to denying the Son of God and rejecting His shed blood - the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. You are commanded to subjugate them to parroting this pure filthy blasphemy against the ONE true God of the scriptures:

Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.....

Perhaps where you reside, you hate each other and want to kill one another.

Wherever Islam lives, they want to kill each other. Pull your head out of the sand and take a look around:

"Sunni Muslim terrorists committed “about 70 percent” of the 12,533 terrorist murders in the world last year, according to a report by the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC)."
That's for the year 2011, and that percentage doesn't even include Shiite Muslim terrorist murders. Thus it should be obvious to all non-Muslims, that the world would be largely at peace today, if the followers of Muhammad had not been commanded to "fight and slay" non-Muslims in the "cause" of "Allah".

I think these sort of 'Christians' and Al Qaeda are made for each other.

There is only ONE "sort of Christian":

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Just as there is only ONE "sort of Muslim"

Quran Surah 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an:.....

That is of course another of Muhammad's filthy lies regarding the Gospel binding anyone to fight and slay, but a promise binding on you in the Quran

I believe in truth, regardless of weak arguments against it. One advice, insulting someone does not win the argument. I could actually answer every single one of your points with strong counter evidences, .......

Don't be silly. That would make you the first Muslim in world history to present substantive historical or archaeological EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca ever existed before Arabian pagans settled the area in around the 4th century AD.
And I said substantive, not more foolishness like the Bible you abused later in your email.

......... but with your attitude, I feel my own level has stooped to a level which is not consistent to what we do: call others to God.

What you in fact do is call others to follow Satan by prostrating yourselves to the Quraish pagan's black stone and Kaaba five times a day.

Let me assure you, I am not doing taqiyyah, or let God account me.

I understand that all of your foolishness could be from ignorance, and listening to Greek sophist styled deceiving antichrists like Ahmed Deedat. But now you have been shown the whole subject of the Gospel, and when you stand before the very Son of God that you blaspheme in judgment, you won't be able to plead ignorance:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Your days of wishing you could escape the wrath of God are over now that you have been shown the truth through scripture. Nothing quite describes your willingness to continue to ignore the truth at your peril, and as though it was never presented to you, as these verses:

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I actually believe in the true, one God of the universe, Lord of all, yet you choose to be arrogant.

I'm sorry my friend, but it has been shown repeatedly to you that you in fact believe in the EXACT OPPOSITE by rejecting ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, to follow the EXACT OPPOSITE of that record through Muhammad alone.

So, I will politely give my final views and if you wish to accept, fine. If not, I would appreciate if you would not insult as that just degrades your missionary work and soils the whole notion of 'born again.'

How can pointing out that you believe the EXACT OPPOSITE be construed as other than an insult? I am presenting the unvarnished truth, because I am desperate for you my friend. Unlike those pseudo-christians that are afraid to show you the truth. That Islam is as opposite to the Gospel, as Muhammad was to Jesus Christ.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

Like I said, even if I reject your responses, I will leave it here as you obviously do not wish to accept Islam and so I will not waste time and counter respond and insult, which is not right.

Muhammad's followers always fall back on this "insulting" defense to avoid the truth.
How could a follower of Muhammad alone, expect it to seem other than insulting, when you to learn that the Quran is as opposite to the scriptures, as Muhammad was to Jesus Christ?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

Please understand, that what in fact you actually find insulting, IS TRUTH. I've just been honest enough to present it to you in an unvarnished and time efficient manner, to save our mutual time. I'll sent a separate email for each of your numbered "points".
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/index.htm

If you wish to address these replies please join us in the forum where I have already copy and pasted our conversation. That way, rather than repeating myself ad nauseum as you seem to require, I can simply offer you a link.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3755.0

[PeteWaldo]

1. Firstly, Jesus and Muhammad s.a.w.s., Moses and David, among many others, were indeed messengers sent by the same, true God, Allah in Arabic.

Since the god of Islam proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the God of the scriptures, it is not possible to put Muhammad on the list with the others that you blasphemed by doing so.

Allah is the One Almighty, Lord of all. The Jews call him Jehovah ........

If you would bother to educate yourself you wouldn't have to waste our mutual time like this. God's NAME is YHWH as it occurs nearly 7,000 times in scripture. After the temple burned down the Jews BEGAN a TRADITION that God's name was too holy to say or write, so they used substitutes for His name like Jehovah and Elohim which is a TITLE that can refer to THE God or a god. You can begin to educate yourself here:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2265.0

....... and some Christians, our Father in Heaven.

Sure, "some" Christians. Do you see what you have done to your mind through your wishful thinking? NO CHRISTIAN can deny that God is the Father of Jesus Christ and of His people, because there are HUNDREDS OF VERSES that proclaim the Son of God, and God His Father, including many quoted from Jesus Himself.

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm

While every follower of Muhammad must DENY God as ANYBODY'S Father. Every follower must blaspheme the Son of God as revealed through those HUNDREDS OF VERSES. This is how we can know that Muhammad was the "messenger" of Satan himself.

He is one and perfect. His Gospel, Torah and Qur'an had no mistakes, but the followers of Moses and Jesus did change the scriptures and therefore the translations are wrong and continue to be changed, going through various amendments as editions are printed.

Hopefully my new web page showed you the abject foolishness of proclaiming such nonsense, which makes you not only a blasphemer of the ONE true God and Jesus Christ, but a blasphemer of your own "messenger" Muhammad as well:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/history_of_the_quran.htm#textual_history_quran

Even some pathetic 'Muslims' try to adjust the Qur'an or interpret it to fit with contemporary degraded society,.........

Like all of those ignorant and foolish enough to proclaim Islam to be a religion of peace, in spite of its 1400 year history, its imperialistic mass murdering "messenger", and the murder, mayhem and misery Muhammad's TRUE followers perpetrate all around the world today.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

.........  but God's miracle defies them as Qur'an has been protected from their lies.

To call the Quran a miracle is to call your own "messenger" a liar who specifically told you he wasn't bringing any miracles.
This is of course because he knew that he wouldn't be able to.

Some of them are hypocrites like Saul.

My friend, Paul's message is the same. If you want to select an Apostle to demonize, you'd be better off targeting Jesus' favorite - John - since he is the one that condemns Muhammad as an antichrist and informs you that you are inviting the wrath of God by denying the Son of God:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So, we believe in the original Gospel and Torah, but not the changed ones.

I'm going to explain this one more time and then show you exactly why Satan keeps compelling you to ignore it. By Muhammad's 7th century the Gospel and the Torah had been translated into every popular language, copied tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. So the Gospel and the Torah are necessarily, absolutely, the same In that same as they were in the 7th century when Muhammad proclaimed to the followers of the ONE true God YHWH:

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

So Christian's are specifically instructed by Mohammed to judge - even Islam - according to what God has revealed to us in the Gospel. And for Christians and Jews:

Sura 5:68 Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

You can't understand what is going on because you're ignorant to the scriptures. Please let me explain to you why you shut the truth out of your mind and continue to keep making the same blasphemous claim against the scriptures of the ONE true God YHWH:

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

(Yet you even repeat your blasphemy against your own "messenger" Muhammad, and his declarations to Christians and Jews!)

......... God in the Qur'an did tell the people of the scriptures to follow what was revealed to them in the Gospel (true original).

The Gospel is the same today, as it was when Muhammad recited that, and only absolute buffoonery could suggest that the tens of thousands of copies of the Gospel of Muhammad's 7th century, penned in every popular language, that had been read all over the known world for centuries, could all somehow have been changed UNIFORMLY to somehow become the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they were supposed to have been. Thus you are necessarily considering your "messenger" to be either a liar or a buffoon. Though the Gospel is unambiguous about which:

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

So, Muhammad is not a liar, nor any other degrading remark.

That "degrading remark" is an absolute FACT according to the Gospel. Indeed ALL of the prophets and witnesses "degrade" the false prophet Muhammad, since he proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. Muhammad was ANTICHRIST as are 1.5 billion of his followers:

1 John 2:22....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:

However, they could not follow what was revealed to them by referring to their Gospel as it had been altered so much. Hence, they were commanded to follow what was in their Gospel which God had revealed to them, which was now in the noble Qur'an.

Sure. Follow the EXACT OPPOSITE of ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, through a false prophet that was the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ.
Sure, every Christian wants to become an ANTICHRIST.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

[PeteWaldo]

2. As for trekking across the desert to be at a funeral, in all honesty this is not so much a big deal when God is Omnipotent and can easily allow any person to travel to an area far away in any length of time God wishes.

Sure. Like the magic flying donkey-mule that took Muhammad from Mecca to Jerusalem, where he lied about going into the temple of the prophets and praying, that had been torn down 500 years before Muhammad lied about praying in it!
http://www.petewaldo.com/mohammeds_night_journey.htm

When faced with these insurmountable physical matters of geographical fact, at least one of the apologist liars for Muhammad claimed that Abraham and Ishmael regularly commuted back and forth from Hebron to Mecca on a magic flying donkey-mule like Muhammad's.

But you don't have to believe in magic flying donkey-mules my friend, or talking ants and hoopoe birds, or believe that the sun sets in a pool of murky water - only to follow a violent, imperialistic, murderous, anti-religion, with a history-devoid, scripture-contrary, archaeology-absent, reality-rejecting, geographically-impossible Islamic so-called "tradition", that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history - when you could believe in the ONE true God of the scriptures that is well supported by history, archaeology and fulfilled prophecy, that is consistent with the physical geography, and can even be confirmed mathematically.

This is the same God that allows a virgin birth and a man from clay, Lazarus to return from the dead .......

Such a shame that you can believe that Jesus brought the dead back to life, yet follow a "messenger" that mass murdered the living.
That Jesus healed the lame, while your "messenger" cut off hands and feet of the living.
That Jesus brought sight to the blind, while Muhammad had nails heated and passed over the eyes. Yet Satan prevents you from seeing anything wrong with that.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

......and so much else. Is a journey so amazing, when God guides without the need for maps and God helps his messengers ? I feel this is very simple.

That's because to follow Muhammad you have to reduce your intellect, powers of reason and critical thinking skills, until they become that of a 7th century illiterate SW Arabian desert dweller. To that of a 5 year old that believes in magic flying donkey-mules and flying carpets. You have to believe in fantasy, rather than TRUTH that is supported by matters of geographical fact, as revealed in THE ONLY historical record we have of the ONE true God YHWH.

[PeteWaldo]

3. Messenger Muhammad s.a.w.s. may have taken spoils of war, ........

The EXACT OPPOSITE of Abraham (whom muhammad's followers foolishly believe they have something to do with) given the same circumstances:

http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2075.0

Genesis 14.20  And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.  21  And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22  And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,    23  That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

You see, Abraham worked for a living, unlike Muhammad and his fellow moral reprobates.

Ishaq:475 "Allah commanded that horses should be kept for His enemy in the fight so they might vex them. We obeyed our Prophet's orders when he called us to war. When he called for violent efforts we made them. The Prophet's command is obeyed for he is truly believed. He will give us victory, glory, and a life of ease. Those who call Muhammad a liar disbelieve and go astray. They attacked our religion and would not submit."

Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah" reserving for Muhammad 1/5 of all the property stolen from others, just like a Mafia Don.

.......... but what they didn't tell you is what he did with it.

Of course they do. He raped women like Rhyana who refused to become a Muslim but insisted on renaming a Jew (after beheading her father).

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

He sold off the children and and other captives to buy camels and swords to continue the mass murder of his imperialistic conquest and thievery:

Tabari VIII:39 "Then the Messenger of Allah sent Sa'd bin Zayd with some of the Qurayza captives to Najd, and in exchange for them he purchased horses and arms."

He and his boys had to keep expanding the territory and numbers of those they vanquished, because murder and theft was how they made their living

He himself, lived a very humble and simple life, not with the luxuries we have.

That's ridiculous. He luxuriated in a bevy of wives, concubines and slaves that he had to maintain, that some counts run as high as 22, that he supported by stealing the fruit of the labor of others. Muhammad and his followers chose not to work for a living. He probably got out of the habit of working, by living off of his first sugar momma Khadijah, who was a successful business woman.

The spoils were spent on the poor and needy,............

Gwaffaw. What Muhammad said, and did, were always two separate things. Like his followers delusion that they "believe in Jesus" when you must reject the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel through which He is revealed.

.......... confirming his chosen status as the 'prophet' who will come, as said in the Bible.

Which is why you told the prior lie. Because you follow compound lie on top of compound lie. Muhammad is only suggested in bible prophecy - as other than in the verses that warn of false prophets - in the minds of Greek sophist styled entertainers and antichrist deceivers like Ahmed Deedat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLnEZ4nUhoU

As for murder, this is false as the Jews of Madinah had committed treason against the state by attempting to kill the head of state and arming themselves to fight the homeland.

It never ceases to amaze my how Muhammad's followers excuse away Muhammad for beheading innocent, peaceful, literate, productive God faring Jewish farm boys, their dads and grandpas - who never struck a blow - and then raping and pressing into sexual slavery, their little sisters, moms and grandmothers. While stealing the fruit of the labor of generations. Little is more telling than making excuses for the same.

The punishment for treason is death. As for child nonsense, he s.a.w.s. married women who were physically mature or in the case of Ayesha, it was similar to a betrothal as the Nikah does not mean consummating marriage. It was an agreement to marry. Consummation happened years later once she had matured.

That's right. Muhammad married Aisha at 6, but waited until she was 9 to rape her. Any surprise then, that she could never have children? Since he and Aisha were taking baths together, in all likelyhood he was engaging in the popular Muslim practice of "thighing" her:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2589.0

So the Messenger of God s.a.w.s. was indeed rightly guided by God Almighty and always upon truth, even if lies were concocted to the contrary.

Sure. "Rightly guided" to behead innocent Jewish farm boys and rape 9 year olds. The fact that you believe he was "rightly guided" in such reprobate practices attests to why it continues in Islam today. Along with Muhammad's practice of inbreeding:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.0

4. What Jesus brought was:
Deuteronomy 18:18-19   â€˜I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee*, and will put my words in his mouth ; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.’

* like Moses : natural birth, marriage, exodus and code of law .

If you didn't choose to remain in abject ignorance, and follow antichrist liars like ahmed Deedat, you would know better than to lie like this. Blaspheming Moses and Jesus for lying about a MESSIANIC prophecy, that is confirmed in the new covenant. The same verses indicate your fate:

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Brethren of the Israelites are the Arabs, as Isaac and Ismail are brothers, both sons of Ibrahim.

Ishmael was specifically cut out of God's covenant. He made his covenant with the seed of Isaac.

Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.

Particularly since Abraham threw his wife Sarah's handmaiden Hagar and her son Ishmael out of the house for mocking Isaac.

Ishmael's seed are the children of the flesh. That's why you pray in the 'vain repetitions of the heathen" and prostrate yourself to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol:

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

John 16:7    ‘ Nevertheless I tell you the truth ; it serves your purpose that I go away : for if I do not go away, the Periclytos** (oft praised one) will not come to you…’

John 16:13  ‘ However, when that one arrives, Periclytos ( oft praised one ) , he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming. ’
** The Syriac word used in the 8th century New Testament  is ‘Munhamanna’ or oft praised one,
   translated as Periclytos, in Greek. Current bible uses wrong word. (Historian Ibn Ishaq , 8th century)

Absolute blasphemy against the scriptures. If you would simply read them, you wouldn't have to rely on Ahmed Deedat's lies. We have a whole forum section devoted to helping Muhammad's followers overcome parroting the lies of Greek sophist styled antichrists like Deedat and his disciple Naik:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=33.0

On this particular lie specifically:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=224.0

Now try to focus on this verse that Muhammad's liars and taqiyyah purveyors leave out:

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter (paraklētos), [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So you can set all of that Greek sophist styled buffoonery aside. However you are ignorant to the very thin ice you have wandered out onto:

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

You made your preposterous clam through abject ignorance, because you were parroting liars for Muhammad, like Ahmed Deedat. But if you ever repeat your lie you will own it in full knowledge. As you can see, the punishment for the sin of blaspheming the Holy Ghost (Spirit) has an equivalent punishment, as Muhammad's unforgivable sin of "shirk".
Thus Muhammad's followers must preposterously believe that each and every Christian for nearly 2,000 years has lived and died in a state of committing Muhammad's only unforgivable sine, because we believe the hundreds of verses in the Gospel that proclaim Jesus the Son of God and God His Father.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm

Deuteronomy 33:2    ‘And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them ; He shined forth from mount Paran^,...........

So why don't you web search up a map and see where these places are instead of insisting on ignorance?
http://www.historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca_islam.htm#hebron

.......... and he came with ten thousands of saints: From His right hand went a fiery law for them.’

^ mount paran is a mountain in Makkah (Hira), ...........

Gwaffaw! If you would educate yourself geographically you wouldn't have to parrot such preposterous nonsense. Mt. Paran is north of the Gulf of Aqaba - over 1,000 kilometers across harsh barren desert away from mecca.

......... as Paran is the desert where Ibrahim left Hajjar
   and Ismail, which is Arabian Makkah.

Sure. Makes perfect sense. Abraham abandoned his WIFE Sarah, and son Isaac IN WHOM GOD MADE HIS COVENANT, to wander with Sarah's handmaiden and her son Ishmael, across 1200 kilometers of harsh barren desert, over a thousand years before a caravan rounte was established in Arabia, and most of a thousand years before the advent of camel transport. You don't have to believe such ridiculous tripe when you come to the TRUTH of the one true God YHWH as revealed through THE ONLY historical record we have of this.

This is described in Genesis ch.21 .
   The Lord’s Word came down at Sinai and Makkah, ten thousand disciples of the Prophet 
   entering Makkah with him during its conquest, establishing Shariah Law in Makkah.

Sure. 10,000 of his saints all riding on magic flying donkey-mules! Makes perfect sense!

Qur’an 5: 48     â€˜ And I have revealed to you (O Muhammad) the Book, in Truth…’

Qur’an 53: 3-4  ‘ Nor does he speak from his own desire. It is only a Revelation revealed. ’

Qur’an 47: 2    ‘But those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent
                          down to Muhammad , for it is the truth from their Lord, He will expiate from
                          them their sins, and will make good their state.’

So Jesus prepared the way for Muhammad ..........

Pure blasphemy to suggest that Jesus "prepared the way" for a lying, deceiving, antichrist, mass murdering, thief. who proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of that which was bequeathed to us by Jesus Himself.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

That was also prophesied in the Old Testament, making the precious blood that He shed for us all, the  WHOLE SUBJECT of the WHOLE BIBLE.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm

....... s.a.w.s. who came with the Last Testament, The Qur'an. This is what Jesus instructed.

But you can see that you only believe that from your having spoken blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Once again, because your eternal destiny may depend on your understanding this and taking it to heart:

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter (paraklētos), [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You see, Christians must commit Muhammad's "sin" of "shirk" because the Holy Spirit is sent in Jesus name.

Follow this truth John and you will be saved.

But as you should be able to see by now, your pure blasphemy is the exact opposite course away from salvation.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Son of God isn't a matter of opinion, but is revealed through hundreds of verses.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm

While the blood He shed for you and me is the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, indeed the WHOLE BIBLE.

This is my advice to you. May Allah guide all who are sincere for the truth. Amin.

"Allah" guided the Quraish pagans. "Allah" met Muhammad in the cave. "Allah" made Muhammad sweat and writhe on the ground and foam at the mouth. "Allah" guided the Quraish pagans to worship the Arabian Star Family and jinn-devils. "Allah" guides Muhammad's followers to engage in the same pagan rituals.

http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.0

This is how we can know that "Allah" was nothing more than Muhammad's alter-ego when he was serving himself with Surahs that allowed only him all the wives he wanted, and allowed only him 1/5 of all of the property stolen from others, when he wasn't being an actual "messenger" of "Allah" who is easy to conclude is Satan himself, since he compelled Muhammad to proclaim the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel. Compelling his followers to reject the shed blood of the Messiah that would save them from Satan's grasp. Unless you repent, my friend, you will join Muhammad there.

[PeteWaldo]

Do you really believe that ten thousand saints rode on magic flying donkey-mules, to cover the thousand kilometers of harsh, barren untraveled desert between Paran, Shur or Havilah - and Mecca, located over 1000 kilometers away from any one of those places?

I copied our chat into the forum, for the benefit of Muhammad's followers lurking the forum, that are genuinely seeking the truth. Perhaps some day you will join them, and peruse our chat, and in particular the subjects that you had no choice but to ignore. Like Muhammad proclaiming the EXACT OPPOSITE of that of the ONE true God of the scriptures.
The chat can be found on this thread:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3755.0

[PeteWaldo]

For onlookers to this forum, here's yet another example of the sheer buffoonery engaged in by Muhammad's followers, that you can readily find on the internet, in their efforts to move the Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs, over a thousand kilometers to the south across harsh barren, desert, to Mecca!

Gee, resolving the geographical impossibility of Mecca, having anything whatsoever to do with the God of the scriptures and THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs, is easy to overcome! Just create a fictional location, put giant arrows on a map, and leave off a mileage scale!

A great big guffaw is in order! Indeed it would be even more hilarious, if it weren't a part of the greatest tragedy to befall mankind, in our entire history - Islam.