Pre-tribulation

[rdcsjc]

Welcome brothers and sisters in Christ.  I am fairly new to most of Ellis Skolfield's writings, but from what I have read I can honestly say that I get shivers running up and down my spine.  Yes, I do believe that we ar5e in the End times and that jesus will be coming for His bride at any time.  My question is, are there any hints and or clues in Skolfoeld's writings that either proves or disproves the pre trib.  I have been under the impression that as a Christian, we will be going through at least part of the last days and the church will suffer persecution.  Thanks for your time and prayers.

[Bistabuster]

The real question, can you show me, in Scripture, where it specifically states a pre-tribulation rapture?  There is none.  Skolfield proves this point with the last trumpet which is documented here http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=498.msg4959#msg4959

Also, this is as specific as it gets as to where it is placed around your tribulation period.

Matt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

or


Mark 13:24-27
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.  And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

So, as you can see, there will be no pre-Tribulation rapture at all.  In fact, you already went through the tribulation already.  This particular tribulation you are referring to is for the Jews only and that occurred during WW2.  Yes, we are in the end times now, that is correct.  It officially started in 1967 which is clarified in Dan 12:1-9.  Verses 4 and 9 tell you that when this event ends, (Time of Trouble(AKA Tribulation)) that the end times will begin and the Tribulation will be officially over.  You can find the PDF portion of Time, Times and Half Times at this link and many other discussions.  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sawxyixtteaezrb/AADaVCKDuw-pKupu6Ttghc8Ta

[PeteWaldo]

Welcome to the forum rdcsjc!

Welcome brothers and sisters in Christ.  I am fairly new to most of Ellis Skolfield's writings, but from what I have read I can honestly say that I get shivers running up and down my spine.  Yes, I do believe that we ar5e in the End times and that jesus will be coming for His bride at any time.  My question is, are there any hints and or clues in Skolfoeld's writings that either proves or disproves the pre trib.  I have been under the impression that as a Christian, we will be going through at least part of the last days and the church will suffer persecution.  Thanks for your time and prayers.

Perhaps the biggest reason there won't likely be any early departures, is that there  is probably no "7-year" "tribulation" for it to be "pre". I'll humbly remain my 1st century brother John's fellow companion in the tribulation and the kingdom of Jesus Christ.
This thread goes to the scriptural  support for Darby's pre-trib rapture
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=8.0
This thread goes to historical support
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=7.0
Many more articles on this subject in the futurist forum  section
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=2.0

[rdcsjc]

Thank you for such a quick reply.  A little back ground first.  I joined a cult about 40 years ago, AKA The Children of God.  I left the group in 1990 and have since stayed away from formal churches.  Only within the last 2 years have I felt a need to renew my connection with my Lord and saviour and return to Him once again.  I look at the mess of the world and all the hate and confusion and know that Jesus has to return soon.  So many times I feel as if I am doing nothing for the Lord.  I try to pass out Salvation tracts and have daily devotionals in my class room with other teachers.  When I retire in 2 years I plan on hitting the road with my wife and starting a mobile ministry.  My question, is are there books I can get with brother Skolfield's material.  I have seen a few of his books on line, but I'm more interested in finding material like the False Prophet, Behold the beast and other classes like these that I find on his home page.  I wish to share these with as many as possible and will start with my co-workers.  Thank you for your service.  R. Collins

[Bistabuster]

Yes, there is materials to read.  This information is very complex.  Not that you can't handle it or anything.  When you get tough questions about this study, how are you to answer it?  The person may want more proof using other verses.  Will you know where they are?  Or perhaps they may direct you to a verse or series of verses that you cannot explain.

I don't know how much you know but I tried teaching this material in my early days when I didn't know that much and failed miserably!  So learn and ask MANY questions!

 

Well, you can get reading material here.  http://www.ellisskolfield.net/books  Here you can get the study guide and "Islam in the End Times"

False Prophet found here. http://www.ellisskolfield.net/essays

[PeteWaldo]

Thank you for such a quick reply.  A little back ground first.  I joined a cult about 40 years ago, AKA The Children of God.

That's funny. About 45 years ago I was hitchiking and got picked up by some Children of God in a van! 

I left the group in 1990 and have since stayed away from formal churches.  Only within the last 2 years have I felt a need to renew my connection with my Lord and saviour and return to Him once again.  I look at the mess of the world and all the hate and confusion and know that Jesus has to return soon.  So many times I feel as if I am doing nothing for the Lord.  I try to pass out Salvation tracts and have daily devotionals in my class room with other teachers.  When I retire in 2 years I plan on hitting the road with my wife and starting a mobile ministry.  My question, is are there books I can get with brother Skolfield's material.  I have seen a few of his books on line, but I'm more interested in finding material like the False Prophet, Behold the beast and other classes like these that I find on his home page.  I wish to share these with as many as possible and will start with my co-workers.  Thank you for your service.  R. Collins

It's a tough row to hoe bro. You will be shocked at the resistance to such profound and simple truths. Resistance to actually having eyes wide open to actually understanding what is going on in the world and why it is going on.

At this point you might try the study guide as it is the latest of what Ellis has been working on. It was originally called a teaching outline and is suitable for wall projection
http://www.christianeschatology.com/sg2014.pdf

As I faced so much resistance I realized it was important to drive home the point that it is the "church" that strayed off of the reservation over the last 100 years or so, rather than those of us with the traditional historicist approach. We  stand with about the first 1800 years of church history, and those great men of God of the Reformation.
http://christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm

Starting with the broad approach first and comparing it with the pop approaches of futurism and preterism, may be one fruitful way to begin. Also it may help to point out that for a Muslim to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, would be to commit the single most "heinous" and ONLY unforgivable sin in Islam. A sin worse than, for example, child rape or cold-blooded mass murder.
http://petewaldo.com/unforgivable_shirk.htm

Talk about the exact opposite! The only anti-a-specific-religion cult.
http://falseprophetmuhammad.com/index.htm

[rdcsjc]

I see you were picked up by the COG at one point in your life.  Thank God you had the sense to not stay.    Yes I do have many questions.  Since reading some of Ellis' writings many of the old thought patterns have been altered, especially concerning Daniel and Revelation.  I enjoyed reading his class on the Dome of the Rock, and never saw it so clear before.  Of course that's the Abomination of Desolation.  I told my wife years ago the Muslims were AC but was never really able to make clear and direct correlations.  Most people are still looking for a man to fit that bill.  It's amazing how everything fits into place.    Thank you for the links to various material.  Please pray for me as not being an avid church goes, I feel like a voice from the wilderness at times.  God bless you.  R. Collins

[Bistabuster]

Please pray for me as not being an avid church goes, I feel like a voice from the wilderness at times.  God bless you.  R. Collins

We always do!  We have little time left but we do what we can!

We're always here to help.  Even I too need help sometimes!

[PeteWaldo]

I see you were picked up by the COG at one point in your life.  Thank God you had the sense to not stay.    Yes I do have many questions.  Since reading some of Ellis' writings many of the old thought patterns have been altered, especially concerning Daniel and Revelation.  I enjoyed reading his class on the Dome of the Rock, and never saw it so clear before.  Of course that's the Abomination of Desolation.  I told my wife years ago the Muslims were AC but was never really able to make clear and direct correlations.

Blessedly the scriptures and the Quran, side by side, do an unequivical job of confirming that Muhammad, Islam, and sadly, each and every Muslim for the last 1400 years has been an antichrist.
http://falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

Indeed as the most important article of their faith in Muhammad alone! I uploaded the following site for kind gentle Muslim seekers that are genuinely seeking the truth. A little more of a gloves on approach:
http://islamandthetruth.com/shirk_unforgivable_sin.htm

Also not bad for athests or agnostics regarding some proof of God  through fulfilled prophecy:
http://islamandthetruth.com/bible_prophecy.htm
http://islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm
http://islamandthetruth.com/isaiah_53.htm

Most people are still looking for a man to fit that bill.  It's amazing how everything fits into place.    Thank you for the links to various material.  Please pray for me as not being an avid church goes, I feel like a voice from the wilderness at times.  God bless you.  R. Collins

You'll be in our prayers bro.