Author Topic: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister  (Read 4003 times)

PeteWaldo

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A Mormon last go around for the Republican Party and this time a Seventh Day Adventist?

Needless to say the SDA church is being very quiet about this.
"Seventh-Day Adventist Church Warns Members Against Showing Institutional Favor for Ben Carson After Neurosurgeon Declares Presidential Bid"

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/seventh-day-adventist-church-warns-members-against-showing-institutional-favor-for-ben-carson-after-neurosurgeon-declares-presidential-bid-138817/#9idc2JsHLrjDcra1.99

For those that are unfamiliar we have a whole forum section devoted to this cult, that based on my online discussions with them, believe that all Christians that worship on Sunday instead of Saturday are going to hell.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=25.0

Indeed Seventh Day Adventists are taught that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast!
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/sdamark.htm

So those folks are out there doing what they can to divide the body of Christ, as the Muhammadans that not only carry the mark of, but are the Islamic kingdom "beast", continue to conquer the world.
http://christianeschatology.com/historicism.htm#mark_of_the_beast

BLKsheep

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2015, 10:58:18 AM »
You're demonization of JW's, SDA's, Mormons, and Catholics, AND your arrogant judgmental attitude toward people like myself who disagrees with you, is the reason why your forum isn't growing, and why so many people avoid Christianity like the plague, and why Islam is growing much faster than Christianity.

PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2015, 11:09:51 AM »
You're demonization of JW's, SDA's, Mormons, and Catholics, AND your arrogant judgmental attitude toward people like myself who disagrees with you, is the reason why your forum isn't growing, and why so many people avoid Christianity like the plague, and why Islam is growing much faster than Christianity.

Islam is growing faster because the birth rate in the Islamic world is 2 to 3 times that in the Christian world. While: "According to Sennels, close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.0

demographics:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3131.0

It is folks that are blinded by cults like SDA, that proclaim that Christians who worship on Sunday are marked by the beast, that divide themselves from the body of Christ and join Muslims in denial of the deity of Christ.

And we should want our forum to grow with with misguided cultists that cannot support what they have been taught in the light of scripture?

We should want to grow with folks that, rather than following the scriptures follow individual men and women instead, like Joseph Smith, William Miller, Ellen White, Mary Baker Eddie, etc. etc.?

Better our forum stands as an information center for folks that are honestly seeking out truth, and as a result are in the process of overcoming those cults. We offer resources here of former members who overcame the cults they were indoctrinated into. A whole forum section dedicated to denominations and cults.

What all those cults share with Islam is denial of divinity of Christ, just like you. So you didn't share with us which cult you belong to, so we could better target our aid to help you overcome it. Are you ready to now?

Should our forum be populated with people that believe that Christians that worship on Sunday carry the "mark of the beast"?

Do you believe that Christians who worship on Sunday carry the mark of the beast?

If you weren't so embarrassed by association with the group you are in, you might otherwise admit to which one it is, so we could better target our discussion to help you overcome it.

BLKsheep

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2015, 11:59:10 AM »
So now your presumptuous behavior leads you to assume that I'm SDA.  I have NO religious affiliation whatsoever.  I go to a host of Churches and don't judge those who believe different than I do.  Judgment is reserved for God, not me.  For me to judge another who believes in Jesus Christ puts me in the same category as those in this...

Romans 2:1.
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whoever thou art that judgest: for in that thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Romans 14:12-13  So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

It's not our job as a Christians to point out the sins of people. It's our job to point them to Christ. Telling people they're heretics does nothing for the cause of Christ. It just alienates them from the body of Christ and alienates those who 'don't know any better' from accepting Christ. To a point it's OK for Christians to judge one anothers 'behavior'.  But it's never OK for Christians to judge those outside of the Church. 

As far as heresies go, there are damnable and undamnable heresies.

In 1 Cor 5 we are told that we can judge one another's 'behavior'.  But did you know that false teachers 'within the church' who taught 'undamnable' heresies were given a second chance?  Did you know that if those teachers who taught 'undamnable' heresies who didn't repent of their teachings, were NOT excommunicated from the congregation?  People were told to 'avoid' them.

In Philippians 1:14-18 Paul doesn't curse those that preach Christ with evil motives and not in truth, but actually rejoices in that Christ is being preached anyway!

Philippians 1:15-19  Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:  The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:  But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.  For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

Paul on one hand in Galatians curses false teachers, yet on the other appears to rejoice in that Christ is being preached anyway.  That means that on one hand your "undamnable heretic doctrine doesn't condemn you," you are still saved by our righteousness in Christ.

What appears to be a contradiction in Paul's teachings really is not.  It's just that there are damnable and undamnable heresies.   

Matthew 7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

It does NO GOOD for Christians to demonize one another.  It gives the world the sense that we Christians are hypocrites.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 12:02:51 PM by BLKsheep »

PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2015, 12:13:49 PM »
So now your presumptuous behavior leads you to assume that I'm SDA.

That's false. In fact I had concluded you were Jehovah's Witness, the last time you were in here. It was based on your previous rejection of the deity of Christ, which joins you with Muslims and just about every cult:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4256.0

I go to a host of Churches and don't judge those who believe different than I do.

I don't judge "those" (people) either. That's reserved for my Lord and Savior. Who requires me to make judgments about truth and falsehood, right and wrong, good and evil and false doctrine from sound doctrine, in the light of the truth of the scriptures.

You deny the deity of Christ as Muslims do, and even argue like a Muslim sympathizer, too. They also try to change the subject from being judging doctrine, to pretending the discussion is about judging persons instead, in efforts to bury the discussion about doctrine.

Otherwise I could be caught up in a cult that spreads false doctrine too.

2Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm

Perhaps the best information can be gleaned by people who were members of all those cults that deny the deity of Christ, and see the path that they took to overcome what they had been indoctrinated to believe. This isn't about me any more than it is about you.

BLKsheep

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2015, 12:32:48 PM »
So now your presumptuous behavior leads you to assume that I'm SDA.

That's false. In fact I had concluded you were Jehovah's Witness, the last time you were in here. It was based on your previous rejection of the deity of Christ, which joins you with Muslims and just about every cult:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4256.0

You bolded this quote and I can only associate it with SDA!

"Do you believe that Christians who worship on Sunday carry the mark of the beast?"

What do you expect me to think?

Another thing.  I never rejected the Deity of Jesus Christ.  I said that I didn't believe in the trinity.  Are you aware that there's is a difference between the trinity and the deity of Christ?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 12:39:59 PM by BLKsheep »

PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2015, 12:46:41 PM »
That is a simple question that you would apparently rather waste words on than answer.

PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2015, 12:52:00 PM »
Another thing.  I never rejected the Deity of Jesus Christ.  I said that I didn't believe in the trinity.

Like Muhammad for example:

"So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you."

I believe what is referred to as the "Trinity" to be composed of the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit. Which of those three do you reject?

BLKsheep

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2015, 12:55:59 PM »
First of all Pete.  YOU are the ONE who said I rejected the deity of Christ!  I never said such a thing.  Do you enjoy misquoting people?  That, along with your presumptuous attitude, (Now thinking I'm a JW) it appears that I WOULD be wasting words!

Quote
Like Muhammad for example:

Why are you so bent on belittling other believers who disagree with you with such disgusting presumptuous remarks? 


PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2015, 01:16:39 PM »
First of all Pete.  YOU are the ONE who said I rejected the deity of Christ!

I confused it with your suggestion that you don't believe in the Trinity. Please excuse me and accept my most humble apology for that. However your disbelief in the Trinity was indeed what I was answering to, while labeling it incorrectly.

I believe that God the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit are the Trinity. Distinct, but of one essence.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

I never said such a thing.  Do you enjoy misquoting people?  That, along with your presumptuous attitude, (Now thinking I'm a JW) ........

I only shared that is the impression I received by your disbelief in the Trinity, when you first arrived and left the forum, since both JWs and SDA are on the list of groups that don't believe in the Trinity along with you.

........ it appears that I WOULD be wasting words!

Quote
Like Muhammad for example:

Why are you so bent on belittling other believers who disagree with you with such disgusting presumptuous remarks?

As I pointed out to you when you first arrived, it isn't only the people who follow the false prophet Muhammad that reject the Trinity. It is also the.....
People who follow Joseph Smith
People who follow Charles Taze Russell
People who follow Mary Baker Eddy
People who follow Herbert W. Armstrong
People who follow Dr. John Thomas
People who follow Frank Ewart
People who follow Sun Myung Moon
People who follow Charles and Myrtle Fillmore
People who follow L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4256.0

Does that suggest anything to you about your not believing in the Trinity?
Do you understand why I cited those groups?

There is no shortage of the differences within the body of Christ. The question is where a Christian draw the line and turn toward efforts at helping them overcome unsound indoctrination.
Please visit the prior link for a brief run-down of the beliefs those groups hold.

BLKsheep

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2015, 02:02:10 PM »
Quote
As I pointed out to you when you first arrived, it isn't only the people who follow the false prophet Muhammad that reject the Trinity. It is also the people who follow:
People who follow Joseph Smith
People who follow Charles Taze Russell
People who follow Mary Baker Eddy
People who follow Herbert W. Armstrong
People who follow Dr. John Thomas
People who follow Frank Ewart
People who follow Sun Myung Moon
People who follow Charles and Myrtle Fillmore
People who follow L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4256.msg16982#msg16982

Does that suggest anything to you?

Yes.  It suggest that they are right that there's no such thing as a trinity and the others are wrong. 

The only reason you find it necessary to mention Muhammad in this is because of your being bent on demonizing fellow Christians and making those who disagree with you look as bad as you can make them look.

You had the nerve to tell me that I believe what I do because that's what I've been taught when actually you know little to nothing about me and simple PRESUME you know!  You are the one who has accepted, "line, hook, and sinker" the teachings of others.  I say you believe the trinity "because that's what you've been taught!"  Especially the teachings of Ellis Skolfield.  (who actually doesn't live that far from me) Then on the Daniel 7 thread, you said,

Quote
There is a broad agreement among Jewish and Christian scholars that the kingdoms represented by Daniel's lion, bear and leopard, are the successive ancient kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, followed by the fourth "terrible" beast, that is understood to be the Roman Empire.

That's NOT true since many 'Christian scholars' reconsidered and have found the dates of Daniel 7 to be contradictory and have changed their minds.  They know, and so do the atheist, that one cannot prophesy about a kingdom 'rising' that has already risen some 50 years before.  The word 'before' in the passage means 'in the presence of' indicating that all four beast in Daniel 7 are future END-TIME entities.  I don't imagine you'll ever change your mind because IF you did, you would have to admit that 'YOU'VE BEEN WRONG' and Christians simply don't admit 'being wrong'.  Do you think that all of what you believe is correct?

I remember reading some of your replies on another forum maybe 5 years ago.  You were very nice to people who accused you of hating Muslims.  What happened?

EROR IS EROR REGARDLESS OF WHO BELIEVES OR DOESN'T BELIEVE IT!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 02:03:47 PM by BLKsheep »

PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2015, 02:45:50 PM »
All I see is just more wasted words and attacking messengers.

I say you believe the trinity "because that's what you've been taught!"

Indeed it is what I have been taught - through the scriptures.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

There is what's been dubbed the 'Trinity" described at the end of the book of Matthew. So which one don't you believe in?

PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2015, 02:47:59 PM »
Quote
As I pointed out to you when you first arrived, it isn't only the people who follow the false prophet Muhammad that reject the Trinity. It is also the people who follow:
People who follow Joseph Smith
People who follow Charles Taze Russell
People who follow Mary Baker Eddy
People who follow Herbert W. Armstrong
People who follow Dr. John Thomas
People who follow Frank Ewart
People who follow Sun Myung Moon
People who follow Charles and Myrtle Fillmore
People who follow L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4256.msg16982#msg16982

Does that suggest anything to you?

Yes.  It suggest that they are right that there's no such thing as a trinity and the others are wrong.

So a handful of 19th-20th century born cults that follow after single individuals, got it right, while 1900 years of universal Christian core doctrine got it wrong.

The only reason you find it necessary to mention Muhammad in this is because of your being bent on demonizing fellow Christians and making those who disagree with you look as bad as you can make them look.

On the contrary. I was hoping showing you who you are in agreement with, might shock you into considering the possibility that you could be wrong. But that would seem unlikely.

Those 19th-20th century cults all share the charcateristic of following an individual man or woman. Following a false teacher or a false prophet. Do you suppose this verse refers to 1900 years of universal Christian core doctrine, or those pop-cults that only compose a couple percent of those that claim to be Christians?

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4  And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Please do not ignore the prior post.

PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2015, 02:59:15 PM »
Then on the Daniel 7 thread, you said,.....

Don't create redundant strings unnecessarily. Reply on that thread where your atheist's ridiculous notion was exposed. Specifically to the post on the following link, that quoed the post you ignored. Certain members ignoring answers and then repeating what was answered to, as though it wasn't replied to, is certainly not unfamiliar behavior to the folks in this forum. Ignoring points and replies of others is also behavior that is contrary to the agreement you committed to when you joined.

http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4720.msg18334#msg18334

BLKsheep

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2015, 03:18:15 PM »
Quote
So a handful of 19th century born cults got it right, and 1800 years of universal Christian core doctrine got it wrong.

Call the trinity doctrine what you like but it doesn't prove a thing.  The doctrine was invented in the fourth century and is still controversial today and for GOOD reasons, it's a concept invented by man.  Jesus' own words DEBUNKS the trinity!  I do believe Jesus is God but see the trinity as a poor way to describe Him or Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

I believe God is greater than Jesus. Everything that Jesus is, God is, but God is yet more.

John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 14:28

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Why isn't "the Holy Spirit" found in John's description of God's Throne?  The Holy Spirit emanates from God through the seven Spirits of God which I believe are the seven hierarchies of angels and the powers available to them. The Holy Spirits presence usually comes through the presence of angels, Jesus or God Himself. And Jesus is usually with angels anyway. God, the Seven Spirits, Jesus, they all have the same mind but they don't have all the same power and knowledge as that emanates from, and can only be attributed to, God Almighty.

I've found over the years that the simplest most logical explanation is usually the correct one. This is my simple explanation.

I don't see Jesus as being ALL knowing.

Mat 24:36,

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

I question the trinity as it is taught because of the trinitarian mis-translation of Mat 28:18.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

This verse appears to imply that Jesus is all powerful but it does not. When the word all is used WITHOUT the article it means, "every kind or every variety!"  What Jesus is saying is that every kind of power in heaven is available to him. I say those powers come from God through the seven Spirits of God. If someone were to ask me who is the Holy Spirit I would say He is the Seven Spirits of God which emanates from the throne of God.  Trinitarian's tell us that the Holy Spirit is a separate person than Jesus and God.  If that's the case, why doesn't he have a name, and why isn't he found in or around God's Throne?

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Think about it.

The word all is probably the most often misunderstood and mistranslated word in the bible.  I don't think God has always been understood as though He has just ONE power but as One who has many powers. His power and authority is ministered through the seven Spirits of God. To me that's the most logical explanation.

The language and grammar.

Vines says...
All:
radically means "all." Used without the article it means "every," every kind or variety.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3956&t=KJV
-click on Vines entry-

John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

I've never been able to grasp why or how the Holy Spirit could be ONE separate unnamed person. I have never found the trinity doctrine as being sound. I've never left my Catholic roots and attend all or, "every kind" of churches. But I do believe that Jesus is God in that he is everything that God is. But God is simply, "yet more!"
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 04:14:44 PM by BLKsheep »

PeteWaldo

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Re: Dr. Ben Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist whose father was an SDA minister
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2015, 04:16:28 PM »
Quote
So a handful of 19th century born cults got it right, and 1800 years of universal Christian core doctrine got it wrong.

Call the trinity doctrine what you like but it doesn't prove a thing.

Well gee, all of a sudden you switched it to disbelieving in the Trinity (which refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit), to arguing against a "doctrine". I don't argue against the Father, His Son and Holy Spirit. Nor, I presume, do you.

I have not found this doctrinal term particularly useful, or necessary, in ministry to Muslims. Since it is an extra-scriptural doctrinal term, I don't see it as important in ministry to Muslims. But then there is post after post in that regard in this forum.

Nor do I believe it is necessary for Christians to argue it in this forum, since it may not aid in helping Muhammad's followers come to Christ. Let alone that some folks may construe it as license to deny THE Son of God. This is the Islam/Muslim - Christian Forum. I look at it more as a mystery, that is personally understood.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

For Muslims (or any non-Christian), it would be putting meat before the milk. They will get it, once they get it. Yet you put us through all that to argue against a universal Christian core doctrine. Whether Roman Catholic, Lutheran or so-called non-denominational denominations.

For the sake Muslim read-only participants, can we at least agree that the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit compose what is referred to as the "Trinity"?