1 - Re: Censoring comments on YouTubes

[Pete]

I accused Muslims of largely censoring comments on YouTubes because Islam cannot stand the light of truth of God's Word and, when exposed, folds like a house of cards.

naliakbar video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpgRIGRbF8s&watch_response
naliakbar replied that Christians censor comments too. I agree that many Christians do, and they do it for the same reason!  I get just as frustrated when I spend 20 minutes composing a comment and then post it into neverland on a Christian YouTube. However the YouTube you are responding to is directed at Muslims. I plan on doing a YouTube that castigates Christians that do the same thing, while criticizing those portions of their doctrines that cannot stand up to God's Word.


The church is full of unsound end-time doctrine. That is how it left 1.5 billion Muslims hanging out to dry.
Just like Islam these end-time doctrines also fold like a house of cards in the light of the truth. However these doctrines are ancillary to Christianity. They regard INTERPRETATIONS of FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE in dreams and visions in prophecy. Certain passages in scripture are widely open to interpretation. They are wonderful to explore. The problems arise when men determine that they have all the answers.

Within the body of this forum I touch on what, in my opinion through my understanding of God's Word, are these unsound end-time doctrines. Likely for this reason this forum will remain quite quiet.
You will find that my sympathies do not lie with the institutional "church".

However ALL Christians believe that Jesus died on the Cross to save the world from our sin.
Saved by the blood of the Lamb without spot, slain for you and I.
There are core doctrines that we all have in common, that are not open to interpretation.

Many Muslims believe from the hadith that when a Muslim is "martyred" it provides propitiation for the sin of 70 of his closest friends and relatives. Yet the same can't seem to wrap their head around the notion that God, could have manifest himself in Jesus Christ, to do the same thing, but for the sins of the whole world.

When Muslims deny that Jesus Christ died on the Cross, they may as well close their bibles. This is what the New Testament and new covenant through Jesus Christ is all about. Denying this matter of scripture and historical record makes the rest of the New Testament irrelevant.

[naliakbar]

See where i have an issue is when i am singled out, as a muslim your video attacks me, not a christian that does the same thing with the comments, like i said i have had teh same thing happen to me, so to attack muslims to say that we are the only ones doing it because our doctrine does not stand up in my opinion is just as sad because your people do the same.

i would apreciate you take that part of the vidoe you create out, or add that christians do the same thing in the video, because you cannot attack us like we are the only ones doing this thing.  fair is fair, i like fair grounds.

as for the death of jesus, you see here is where the problem is,

God defined sin
God holds us against this defination
and you believe this same god decided to kill himself because he didnt like his rules that is where to me your doctrine makes absolutely no sense.

as for the matrs taking 70 people of their choosing to heaven there is no issue with that, because that is a gift god granted them for their acts of courage.

but that is not the same thing with jesus you are telling me that God HAD to commit suicide for my sins to be forgiven.  yet it is believed that a person who commits suicide will go directly to hell.

[Pete]

See where i have an issue is when i am singled out, as a muslim your video attacks me, not a christian that does the same thing with the comments, like i said i have had teh same thing happen to me, so to attack muslims to say that we are the only ones doing it because our doctrine does not stand up in my opinion is just as sad because your people do the same.

You are taking it personally rather than the fact on it's own merit.
And there are far more Muslim censors than Christian. Many begin their censorship when I begin commenting with scripture.
I can only recall one that allowed video responses to be posted immediately.
He has now removed some of those, and now censors video responses.

i would apreciate you take that part of the vidoe you create out, or add that christians do the same thing in the video, because you cannot attack us like we are the only ones doing this thing.  fair is fair, i like fair grounds.

I will balance it with an expose on Christian censorship.

as for the death of jesus, you see here is where the problem is,

God defined sin
God holds us against this defination
and you believe this same god decided to kill himself because he didnt like his rules that is where to me your doctrine makes absolutely no sense.

But you are trying to understand God in human terms. Even Islam teaches that you can't do that.
This is the approach of Muslims almost universally have. I think it is because of sophists like Deedat.
I have to go by the Word of God. I believe what it says.

You can't find God with your head. You have to use your heart, and the wide open eyes of a child:
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

as for the matrs taking 70 people of their choosing to heaven there is no issue with that, because that is a gift god granted them for their acts of courage.

but that is not the same thing with jesus you are telling me that God HAD to commit suicide for my sins to be forgiven. 

No it is the Muslim "martyr" that commits suicide by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. Jesus WAS KILLED by men. Crucified.
You are simply making excuses to yourself to continue to allow yourself to deny Him.

yet it is believed that a person who commits suicide will go directly to hell.

Jesus was crucified on a Cross to save you and I from our sins, through faith in Him. The only begotten Son of God.

Good works are as filthy rags to God.
Good works are the RESULT of repentance and salvation NOT the path to it.


PS if you need any help with how to break quotes, or put in links or something

[naliakbar]

You first tell me:

You are taking it personally rather than the fact on it's own merit.

Then tell me:

And there are far more Muslim censors than Christian.

Isn't that your personal opinion rather than a fact? Was there a study done on this that prove this is as you say?  So this is in my opinion a double standard like I said before.

But you are trying to understand God in human terms. Even Islam teaches that you can't do that.
This is the approach of Muslims almost universally have. I think it is because of sophists like Deedat.
I have to go by the Word of God. I believe what it says.

You can't find God with your head. You have to use your heart, and the wide open eyes of a child:
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

The outline I gave you on god can you deny this is what you want me to believe? Can you deny that first god set up rules and regulations that define what sins are, can you deny that your belief says god came to die for the sins of men for what ever reason it was? Don�t tell me I am putting it in human terms im putting it in the best logic I can put my finger on.  As for the words of god, I agree we follow them but what are the words of god, you say the bible I say the quran, we will discuss this later

No it is the Muslim "martyr" that commits suicide by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. Jesus WAS KILLED by men. Crucified.
You are simply making excuses to yourself to continue to allow yourself to deny Him.

First of suicide is forbidden in islam so a muslim that kills himself is not a martyr.  You say jesus was killed, then how can you say that jesus died for the sins of men? He was killed and the intention of his killers were not for our sins.  Your belief says that jesus came into the world to die, is that not what you believe?  Crucified, hang, injected what ever method of death he took is it not that you believe he came on earth to die?  If that is the case what is the distinction of killing him and he just dieing. I am not making excuses for denying him, you are� you believe when it is convenient.  Here is a typical conversion message �
God sent is only son to die for you and my sins, don�t deny him he was crucified on the cross for our sins.  And the son is god as the father is god.

Then when I say he came on earth to commit suicide you get offended, why? Wasn�t it his purpose on earth to die for our sins as you claim?  If jesus� purpose was not to come on earth to die (commit suicide) then it is proof that you believe the wrong thing because he was killed as you said.(I ofcourse don�t believe he died but that is a different topic.)

PS. Thanks for offering to help

[Pete]

You first tell me:

You are taking it personally rather than the fact on it's own merit.

Then tell me:

And there are far more Muslim censors than Christian.

Isn't that your personal opinion rather than a fact? Was there a study done on this that prove this is as you say?

I have visited over 3,000 videos. Perhaps 95% of those are Christian or Muslim videos. Based on that experience I have found that Muslim censors vastly outcensor Christian censors, as a percentage, in their respective category.

So this is in my opinion a double standard like I said before.

But you are trying to understand God in human terms. Even Islam teaches that you can't do that.
This is the approach of Muslims almost universally have. I think it is because of sophists like Deedat.
I have to go by the Word of God. I believe what it says.

You can't find God with your head. You have to use your heart, and the wide open eyes of a child:
Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

The outline I gave you on god can you deny this is what you want me to believe? Can you deny that first god set up rules and regulations that define what sins are, can you deny that your belief says god came to die for the sins of men for what ever reason it was?

No first and second God. One God as I have shown you repeatedly. If you made an effort to understand the bible (which the natural man can't expect to do) you would understand that the "law" is pressed into the Christian, through the Holy Ghost.

Don�t tell me I am putting it in human terms im putting it in the best logic I can put my finger on.  As for the words of god, I agree we follow them but what are the words of god, you say the bible I say the quran, we will discuss this later

No it is the Muslim "martyr" that commits suicide by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. Jesus WAS KILLED by men. Crucified.
You are simply making excuses to yourself to continue to allow yourself to deny Him.

First of suicide is forbidden in islam so a muslim that kills himself is not a martyr.  

Indeed the line is a blur between the truth and taqiyyah, isn't it?
Yes I should indeed have said "homocide bomber".
http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/S/suicide_bomber.html

You say jesus was killed, then how can you say that jesus died for the sins of men? He was killed and the intention of his killers were not for our sins.  Your belief says that jesus came into the world to die, is that not what you believe?  Crucified, hang, injected what ever method of death he took is it not that you believe he came on earth to die?  If that is the case what is the distinction of killing him and he just dieing. I am not making excuses for denying him, you are� you believe when it is convenient.  Here is a typical conversion message �
God sent is only son to die for you and my sins, don�t deny him he was crucified on the cross for our sins.  And the son is god as the father is god.

Then when I say he came on earth to commit suicide you get offended,

Nothing you could say about Jesus would offend me. It's Jesus Christ you will have to answer to. You can draw cartoons of Jesus if you want.
All a Christian should do if someone does, is pray that they repent before they condemn themselves to an eternity, perhaps of torment day and night, forever, without rest. They certainly won't go out and burn a few thousand cars that belong to people they don't even know.

why? Wasn�t it his purpose on earth to die for our sins as you claim?  If jesus� purpose was not to come on earth to die (commit suicide) then it is proof that you believe the wrong thing because he was killed as you said.(I ofcourse don�t believe he died but that is a different topic.)

PS. Thanks for offering to help

Jesus was killed by men, not by His own hand. You're welcome to blaspheme Jesus all you want.
It's Jesus you will be answering to:

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Regarding any honest inquiry in respect to the Blood of the Lamb slain, Jesus Christ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK3Rgcw5lDw

[naliakbar]

I have visited over 3,000 videos. Perhaps 95% of those are Christian or Muslim videos. Based on that experience I have found that Muslim censors vastly outcensor Christian censors, as a percentage, in their respective category.

Like I said to me this is a double standard, if you have an issue with sensorship, then have an issue with it period.  Don't have a temporary issue with it because a higher percentage of muslims sensor. First of let me explain to you something, the whole reason I bought a webcam and posted videos on youtube was simply because an evangelical christian sat behind the camera and lied about my religion and then I confronted him about it all he could do was tell me im going to hell etc, so I bought a camera and created a video agaisnt it, you are more than welcome to find the first vidoe I created and see for yourself, maybe you should watch it.
My first video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83rrS0Hd7jM

No first and second God. One God as I have shown you repeatedly. If you made an effort to understand the bible (which the natural man can't expect to do) you would understand that the "law" is pressed into the Christian, through the Holy Ghost.

This just takes the cake, if no natural man can ever expect to understand the bible without the holy ghost, and the holy ghost will not come to any man that does not believe that jesus died for his sin, how can we ever expect that I will ever understand the bible since I  refuse to believe god commited suicide for my sins.  Also there are so many christians that claim that the have the holy spirit in them a great example is Swaggart, but then you find that they are commiting adultry etc� what the holy spirit was sleeping that night?  Every single church claims they have the spirit yet many of them don�t agree with each other.  

Indeed the line is a blur between the truth and taqiyyah, isn't it?
Yes I should indeed have said "homocide bomber".

Blur? Sir I don�t have to lie to you, what do I have to lie to you about?  If I believed it was ok for suicide bombings then I would say so, I have an understanding as to why my brothers have resorted to this action, it is because you have the isrealies who are backed by america and her weapons of distruction from far, that is used to commit genocide on those people of palestine for the sake of land and these people have no choice but to attack in this manner, I don�t agree with it but I say atleast they are not cowards sitting in a black hawk helicopter killing people armed with stones on the streets.  I don�t have the time to search for it now, but I will look for it, there is a hadith that the prophet(Saw) forbad the soldiers form going into the battle with the intention of getting killed, he said they are not matrys, so to me that is the same verdict for a homocide/suicide bomber.

Nothing you could say about Jesus would offend me. It's Jesus Christ you will have to answer to.

First of he is a prophet that is beloved by muslims so we would not degrade any of our prophets.  Secondly if this is the love you have for your god I really don�t know.  If someone offends my wife I would want to fight with that person, and here you are talking about god according to you and you don�t have the least bit care about it.  Back in the 80's there was a cartoon about jesus that basically showed him as gay or something of the sort, and it was muslims not christians that protested, think about the amount of love we have for this prophet. In India in the recent times muslims took to the streets with christians to ban the DaVinchi code http://in.rediff.com/movies/2006/may/17sfa.htm
so to sit there and think that muslims are not offended when jesus is attacked is just ignorance of the truth.  As for burning cars well some people take things to an extreme and unfortunately sometimes you cant help that, it only takes one in a crowd to get caos.

Jesus was killed by men, not by His own hand. You're welcome to blaspheme Jesus all you want.
It's Jesus you will be answering to:

Is it not you that say that jesus came to die for my sins? Come on lets put logic here, when I sacrifice a lamb for my sins, my intentions were to kill the lamb for my sins and thus if god accepts it the sins are forgiven.  You say men killed jesus were their intentions to kill this man for the sins of the world? Answer to that is NO.  So for your statement to be true it would be that the people killing jesus would have wanted him to be an eternal sacrifice.  But if jesus was murdered then he was not murderd for sins of mankind.
See the trick that you will play with this is you will never use one or the other word when you tell me what you believe.  You will never say jesus commited suicide for my sins, nor will you say jesus was murdered for my sins, and I know you may decide to play politics on this one about the murder, so then the follow up question is who murdered him for my sins? Because all I know is the jews killed him for blasphemy.

[Pete]

I have visited over 3,000 videos. Perhaps 95% of those are Christian or Muslim videos. Based on that experience I have found that Muslim censors vastly outcensor Christian censors, as a percentage, in their respective category.

Like I said to me this is a double standard, if you have an issue with sensorship, then have an issue with it period.  Don't have a temporary issue with it because a higher percentage of muslims sensor. First of let me explain to you something, the whole reason I bought a webcam and posted videos on youtube was simply because an evangelical christian sat behind the camera and lied about my religion and then I confronted him about it all he could do was tell me im going to hell etc, so I bought a camera and created a video agaisnt it, you are more than welcome to find the first vidoe I created and see for yourself, maybe you should watch it.
My first video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83rrS0Hd7jM

No first and second God. One God as I have shown you repeatedly. If you made an effort to understand the bible (which the natural man can't expect to do) you would understand that the "law" is pressed into the Christian, through the Holy Ghost.

This just takes the cake, if no natural man can ever expect to understand the bible without the holy ghost,

The vast majority of Muslims who come to Jesus Christ do it simply by reading God's Word. But they are seeking God. God reveals Himself to them through His Word, then as they understand they become saved and can enjoy the things of the Spirit of God.

You are insisting on rebelling and remaining a natural man. Like to ridiculous proof text conclusion you reached in regard to Jesus ordering up swords. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=58.msg145#msg145
You put your effort int MISunderstanding.
You will never be able to understand a thing of the Spirit of God as long as you remain in rebellion following the false prophet. But then not all are chosen.

and the holy ghost will not come to any man that does not believe that jesus died for his sin, how can we ever expect that I will ever understand the bible since I  refuse to believe god commited suicide for my sins.  Also there are so many christians that claim that the have the holy spirit in them a great example is Swaggart, but then you find that they are commiting adultry etc�

Hitler wasn't a Christian either. You have to understand what being a Christian is through God's Word, not through the actions of men like the Crusades, or the papal murder of millions of Christians.
http://www.biblebelievers.com/foxes/findex.htm

What does the bible say?

1Cr 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

what the holy spirit was sleeping that night?  Every single church claims they have the spirit yet many of them don�t agree with each other.  

Many make the claim falsely it's true. But when they disagree they simply form another denomination.
Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children because they disagree theologically.

Indeed the line is a blur between the truth and taqiyyah, isn't it?
Yes I should indeed have said "homocide bomber".

Blur? Sir I don�t have to lie to you, what do I have to lie to you about?

Islam. Your head is in the sand. The Quran is the sword of Islam? That's preposterous the sword is the sword of Islam and the Islamic imposed fate on "unbelievers".
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

If I believed it was ok for suicide bombings then I would say so, I have an understanding as to why my brothers have resorted to this action, it is because you have the isrealies who are backed by america and her weapons of distruction from far, that is used to commit genocide on those people of palestine for the sake of land and these people have no choice but to attack in this manner, I don�t agree with it but I say atleast they are not cowards sitting in a black hawk helicopter killing people armed with stones on the streets.  I don�t have the time to search for it now, but I will look for it, there is a hadith that the prophet(Saw) forbad the soldiers form going into the battle with the intention of getting killed, he said they are not matrys, so to me that is the same verdict for a homocide/suicide bomber.

Nothing you could say about Jesus would offend me. It's Jesus Christ you will have to answer to.

First of he is a prophet that is beloved by muslims so we would not degrade any of our prophets.  Secondly if this is the love you have for your god I really don�t know.  If someone offends my wife I would want to fight with that person,

And because of the reprobate nature of your prophet, you continue the absurd notion that coming to the defense of the defenseless is somehow equivalent to the reprobate IMPERIALISTIC CONQUEST of Mohammedanism.

and here you are talking about god according to you and you don�t have the least bit care about it.  Back in the 80's there was a cartoon about jesus that basically showed him as gay or something of the sort, and it was muslims not christians that protested, think about the amount of love we have for this prophet. In India in the recent times muslims took to the streets with christians to ban the DaVinchi code http://in.rediff.com/movies/2006/may/17sfa.htm
so to sit there and think that muslims are not offended when jesus is attacked is just ignorance of the truth.  As for burning cars well some people take things to an extreme and unfortunately sometimes you cant help that, it only takes one in a crowd to get caos.

Sure. Taking things to extremes. And what's a little going overboard when your false prophet prescribes the behavior?

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and their heads left on the steps of a Church.  The note left behind reads:  "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Jesus was killed by men, not by His own hand. You're welcome to blaspheme Jesus all you want.
It's Jesus you will be answering to:

Is it not you that say that jesus came to die for my sins? Come on lets put logic here, when I sacrifice a lamb for my sins, my intentions were to kill the lamb for my sins and thus if god accepts it the sins are forgiven.  You say men killed jesus were their intentions to kill this man for the sins of the world? Answer to that is NO.

Exactly. No. They killed him because He said He is the Messiah and said He is God. Same reason they wanted to stone Him.

So for your statement to be true it would be that the people killing jesus would have wanted him to be an eternal sacrifice.  But if jesus was murdered then he was not murderd for sins of mankind.

And this is what will continue to prevent you from coming into relationship with Him but instead engage in vane repetitions as the heathen do.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.  

See the trick that you will play with this is you will never use one or the other word when you tell me what you believe.  You will never say jesus commited suicide for my sins, nor will you say jesus was murdered for my sins, and I know you may decide to play politics on this one about the murder, so then the follow up question is who murdered him for my sins? Because all I know is the jews killed him for blasphemy.

You will never find God with your head and vain prayer. That's the tragic mistake like the lost sophists like Deedat.

[naliakbar]

The vast majority of Muslims who come to Jesus Christ do it simply by reading God's Word. But they are seeking God. God reveals Himself to them through His Word, then as they understand they become saved and can enjoy the things of the Spirit of God.

The vast number of people that convert to hinduism and buddism have the same experience as well.

You put your effort int MISunderstanding.

There is a difference between misunderstanding and questioning, if a person tells me to sell everything and buy swords I expect that I am going to use this sword to save my life that my possessions are not worth anything more than my life that I will be defending.  So when the bible tells me that jesus told his followers to sell everyting and buy swords the question is why? There is something that we use in industry call the 5 whys, if ask why 5 times to any problem you come to the solution, ofcourse that goes with saying if a new problem arises you start asking your 5 whys from there.  That would get you to the solution and cause of the problem.  So take at apporach for every question you have about islam the 5 whys are answered in clearity.  Like for instance you talked about why 2 women = 1 man in withness to inheritance the first why gives you the answer.

Hitler wasn't a Christian either. You have to understand what being a Christian is through God's Word, not through the actions of men like the Crusades, or the papal murder of millions of Christians.

I find this to be a common excuse amongst christians, this is the get out of jail free card, who are you to judge? Did god give you that special power to judge who is a christian and who is not? Are you better than god that you know what was in a person's heart? The blasphemy that you christians protray in condeming others is just redicilius who gave you the rights to judege a person's christianity?  As a mulsim I would not ever say that someone I disagree with is not a muslim, because only 1 mustard seed's worth of faith is enough for them to be a muslim and god alone knows how much that one seed will be worth on the day of judgement, it might be all that is needed to keep that person out of hell.  But here you are stating that because a perosn didn't follow your branch of "truth" they are not a christian� I really would like to know hwere you got the wisdom and knowledge of god to decide that hitler was nto a christian.

You asked what the bible says here is what is says:
Ezekiel 18:19-21 -  21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.

Many make the claim falsely it's true. But when they disagree they simply form another denomination.
Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children because they disagree theologically.

This is a false claim about sunni and shia, the dissagreement is not about theology it is about leadership.  The sunnis believe the leader comes from the people, the shia believes the leader comes from the family of the prophet.  That is the difference, they both follow the same Quran, they both pray the same way, they both make the same pilgrimage the both fast the same way, there is no difference on the theology of islam.  And don�t bring up fatwahs because that is the opinion of a scholar on what it taught by the quran and hadith.  It is the responsibility of every muslim to first go to the quran and then hadith and if it is not there then to the teaching of a scholar who is knowledgable in both to determine what is the path to follow.  So again sunni or shia do not differ theologically so this is a misunderstanding on your behalf.  If you are an honest person I would expect that you wont repeat this lie anymore.

Islam. Your head is in the sand. The Quran is the sword of Islam? That's preposterous the sword is the sword of Islam and the Islamic imposed fate on "unbelievers".
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Sir, did you not read the quran that tells us to first use diplomacy? The sura tells you how to fight a war, like I said in my video what do you do with enemies on the battle field do you have cucumber sandwiches and tea?

And here is what god says about treaties:
009.004
YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

So as a muslim I am to uphold treaties with those that hold their end of the treaty.

And because of the reprobate nature of your prophet, you continue the absurd notion that coming to the defense of the defenseless is somehow equivalent to the reprobate IMPERIALISTIC CONQUEST of Mohammedanism.

In the conquests of islam, when the war was over and peace came back to the lands, the people that were originally there, still had access to their religion.  I already gave you the example of spain, and it is getting annoying talking about the same thing on 3 posts so we will discuss it in one place.

Sure. Taking things to extremes. And what's a little going overboard when your false prophet prescribes the behavior?

Ok I am tired of you lying against my prophet, please produce proof of the prophet condoning the killing of children or women.  There is ample proof that the prophet condemed such things, that the followers of the prophet had to ask what should they do in night raids when there is the possiblity of women and children getting hurt.  So for those that don�t follow the deen(way of life) as it is taught don�t blame my prophet.  So please you make an assusation produce your proof that the prophet gave orders to kill women and children.

Exactly. No. They killed him because He said He is the Messiah and said He is God. Same reason they wanted to stone Him.

YET you will tell me that jesus died for my sins, what he killed or did he die for my sins? And if he died for my sins like I said before that would be characterized as suicide.

And this is what will continue to prevent you from coming into relationship with Him but instead engage in vane repetitions as the heathen do.

Christians are the ones that keep repeating that jesus died for my sins, not me, im asking how did he die for my sins when you are telling me he was murdered, he was not offered as sacrifice from men to god, he was murdered as you claim.  So it is not me that is repeating myself, it is you that claim something that I say required proof for my faith.

You will never find God with your head and vain prayer. That's the tragic mistake like the lost sophists like Deedat.

Even I as a muslim would never say something like this to you, because I don�t know the will of god, maybe the week before your death you will finally understand that a man did nto die for your sins and accept islam.  Here you are condeming me as if you have the authority of god.  It amazes me how christians claim to be so god concious  yet they take the power that god has for himself and they use it as if they own it.  You are truly lost, I pray that you find that path of truth.  If my pray and good works are vain god and I will discuss this on the day of reckoning, but you on the other hand are ascribing a partner with god, the only sin that god said he will NEVER forgive, that is something you should fear my friend, STOP ascribing partners to god.

[Pete]

The vast majority of Muslims who come to Jesus Christ do it simply by reading God's Word. But they are seeking God. God reveals Himself to them through His Word, then as they understand they become saved and can enjoy the things of the Spirit of God.

The vast number of people that convert to hinduism and buddism have the same experience as well.

You put your effort int MISunderstanding.

There is a difference between misunderstanding and questioning, if a person tells me to sell everything and buy swords I expect that I am going to use this sword to save my life that my possessions are not worth anything more than my life that I will be defending.  So when the bible tells me that jesus told his followers to sell everyting and buy swords the question is why? There is something that we use in industry call the 5 whys, if ask why 5 times to any problem you come to the solution, ofcourse that goes with saying if a new problem arises you start asking your 5 whys from there.

What you do in industry is different. This is how Islamic sophists like Deedat blow smoke around the truth as they march off to perish.
But you are running and hiding, rather than using your own self professed curiosity.
Why were only two swords enough?
Why did one of the swords get used to cut a guy's ear off?
Why did Jesus heal the guy's ear back?
Who got killed with the swords?
Who used the two swords in battle?

You are pretending that the request for swords somehow equated to the 1400 years of bloody imperialistic conquest of the false prophet. But had you honestly asked yourself why, you would see the difference.

That would get you to the solution and cause of the problem.  So take at apporach for every question you have about islam the 5 whys are answered in clearity.  Like for instance you talked about why 2 women = 1 man in withness to inheritance

And in any matter that is brought to court under sharia law.
That you are blind to inequity you've already expressed through your favor of polygamy.

the first why gives you the answer.

Hitler wasn't a Christian either. You have to understand what being a Christian is through God's Word, not through the actions of men like the Crusades, or the papal murder of millions of Christians.

I find this to be a common excuse amongst christians, this is the get out of jail free card, who are you to judge? Did god give you that special power to judge who is a christian and who is not?

God gave us His Word.
Jhn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

So how could we judge whether an activity is Christian or not?

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mark 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

John 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35  By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

So we can see that the slaughter of imperialistic conquest, whether Hitler's or the Pope's slaughter of Christians or the Crusades, is unchristian.

However the 1400 years of Islamic slaughter is perfectly consistent with the actions of it's false prophet and his book.

Are you better than god that you know what was in a person's heart?

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Whether that dark period of Catholicism, EXACTLY CONTRARY to God's Word, or the perfectly consistent 1400 year slaughter of Islam, that is perfectly consistent with the behavior of the false prophet and and his book.

The blasphemy that you christians protray in condeming others is just redicilius who gave you the rights to judege a person's christianity?  As a mulsim I would not ever say that someone I disagree with is not a muslim, because only 1 mustard seed's worth of faith is enough for them to be a muslim and god alone knows how much that one seed will be worth on the day of judgement, it might be all that is needed to keep that person out of hell.  But here you are stating that because a perosn didn’t follow your branch of "truth"

I simply follow God's Word. The Catholic church didn't. That's why they had to apologize for the atrocities they committed, though so many years later.

they are not a christian… I really would like to know hwere you got the wisdom and knowledge of god to decide that hitler was nto a christian.

Not only through God's Word, but even through his night time reading was of Madame Blavatsky, the renouned satanist.
This also explains his mutually compatible with the satanic Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem and their shared interest of genocide of the Jewish people:



YouTube on Hitler and the Islamic Mufti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d51poygEXYU

You asked what the bible says here is what is says:
Ezekiel 18:19-21 -  21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.

I even believe in death bed repentance if it is genuine.

Many make the claim falsely it's true. But when they disagree they simply form another denomination.
Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children because they disagree theologically.

This is a false claim about sunni and shia, the dissagreement is not about theology it is about leadership.  The sunnis believe the leader comes from the people, the shia believes the leader comes from the family of the prophet.  That is the difference,

And that is why they murder each other. Perhaps you don't but at least some of them even consider each other apostate. That's HOW they can murder each other.
Oh yea, and remember the fruit thing?

they both follow the same Quran, they both pray the same way, they both make the same pilgrimage the both fast the same way, there is no difference on the theology of islam.  And don’t bring up fatwahs because that is the opinion of a scholar on what it taught by the quran and hadith.  It is the responsibility of every muslim to first go to the quran and then hadith and if it is not there then to the teaching of a scholar who is knowledgable in both to determine what is the path to follow.  So again sunni or shia do not differ theologically so this is a misunderstanding on your behalf.  If you are an honest person I would expect that you wont repeat this lie anymore.

Indeed. Then I should say that Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children because of their disagreement regarding Islamic leadership? Is that better?

Islam. Your head is in the sand. The Quran is the sword of Islam? That's preposterous the sword is the sword of Islam and the Islamic imposed fate on "unbelievers".
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Sir, did you not read the quran that tells us to first use diplomacy?

Now that IS preposterous. Islamic Jihad: "OK we are going to take your town over. Just let us steal what we want, and give us your women and girls so we can sexually enslave them in our harems, and nobody will get hurt."
Just like the Imam in England: "England will be ruled under sharia law whether by submission of by force. Those that don't oppose us will live."

The sura tells you how to fight a war, like I said in my video what do you do with enemies on the battle field do you have cucumber sandwiches and tea?

And here is what god says about treaties:
009.004
YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

So as a muslim I am to uphold treaties with those that hold their end of the treaty.

And because of the reprobate nature of your prophet, you continue the absurd notion that coming to the defense of the defenseless is somehow equivalent to the reprobate IMPERIALISTIC CONQUEST of Mohammedanism.

In the conquests of islam, when the war was over and peace came back to the lands, the people that were originally there, still had access to their religion.  I already gave you the example of spain, and it is getting annoying talking about the same thing on 3 posts so we will discuss it in one place.

Sure. Taking things to extremes. And what's a little going overboard when your false prophet prescribes the behavior?

Ok I am tired of you lying against my prophet, please produce proof of the prophet condoning the killing of children or women.

Why kill women and girls when you can sexually enslave them in a harem?
"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God, has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts who migrated [from Mecca] with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the prophet if the prophet wishes to wed her; - this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess; - in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And God is oft-forgiving, most merciful.

So your god assigns them these sex slaves as spoils of war. Unless of course you are going to make the preposterous suggestion that they took these slaves pressed into service as wives and concubines, for doing a little dusting around the tent.

There is ample proof that the prophet condemed such things, that the followers of the prophet had to ask what should they do in night raids when there is the possiblity of women and children getting hurt.  So for those that don’t follow the deen(way of life) as it is taught don’t blame my prophet.  So please you make an assusation produce your proof that the prophet gave orders to kill women and children.

Again, this is like asking for proof that Al Capone ordered the murder of people. All they eventually got him on was tax evasion. Regarding the murder even of individuals done for the prophet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JSMnCxPsbM&feature=PlayList&p=35BFE352BFD7FD9B&index=1

Not to mention the slaughter of 1400 years of Jiahd.

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and their heads left on the steps of a Church.  The note left behind reads:  "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Exactly. No. They killed him because He said He is the Messiah and said He is God. Same reason they wanted to stone Him.

YET you will tell me that jesus died for my sins, what he killed or did he die for my sins? And if he died for my sins like I said before that would be characterized as suicide.

And this is what will continue to prevent you from coming into relationship with Him but instead engage in vane repetitions as the heathen do.

Christians are the ones that keep repeating that jesus died for my sins, not me, im asking how did he die for my sins when you are telling me he was murdered, he was not offered as sacrifice from men to god, he was murdered as you claim.

The account of Jesus' crucifixion is detailed in the bible and historical record. Again, you are welcome to characterize it any way you choose. That is up to you. It will be Jesus that you face in judgment regarding your choices:

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

So it is not me that is repeating myself, it is you that claim something that I say required proof for my faith.

You will never find God with your head and vain prayer. That's the tragic mistake like the lost sophists like Deedat.

Even I as a muslim would never say something like this to you, because I don’t know the will of god, maybe the week before your death you will finally understand that a man did nto die for your sins and accept islam.

I follow God's book. Not the false prophet that recites a book 5 centuries later that is the opposite at every turn. The bible warns of such:

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

This is YOUR EXACT TRANSGRESSION. ISLAM IS THE OPPOSITE. Islam IS NOT another road to GOD while nullifying the shed blood of Jesus Christ - the Lamb without spot.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

See the beast video regarding a hermeneutic exploration of the identity of the above beast: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSCCeRdTIxU

Here you are condeming me as if you have the authority of god.  It amazes me how christians claim to be so god concious  yet they take the power that god has for himself and they use it as if they own it.  You are truly lost, I pray that you find that path of truth.  If my pray and good works are vain god and I will discuss this on the day of reckoning, but you on the other hand are ascribing a partner with god, the only sin that god said he will NEVER forgive, that is something you should fear my friend, STOP ascribing partners to god.

See Son of God thread. Yours is a STAND ALONE RELIGION created by a 7th century FALSE PROPHET. It is HE that causes you transgression at every turn.

[naliakbar]

What you do in industry is different. This is how Islamic sophists like Deedat blow smoke around the truth as they march off to perish.
But you are running and hiding, rather than using your own self professed curiosity.
Why were only two swords enough?
Why did one of the swords get used to cut a guy's ear off?
Why did Jesus heal the guy's ear back?
Who got killed with the swords?
Who used the two swords in battle?

You are pretending that the request for swords somehow equated to the 1400 years of bloody imperialistic conquest of the false prophet. But had you honestly asked yourself why, you would see the difference.

I understand you are not in my type of industry so you have no idea how to ask the 5 whys, your whys are separate questions, the 5 whys would be like this

Why did Jesus have his men buy swords? Either to fight or peal bannanas.
Why did Jesus prepare his men to fight? To defend themselves
Why did they want to defend themselves? The wicked jews wanted to capture jesus
Why did they want to capture Jesus? Because they thougth he blasphemed god
Why did they think he blaspheme god? Because they misunderstood his message

What you now need to do is tell me that I am wrong that jesus didn't by swords to fight, and it was for bannanas.

And no I am not pretending that this is like conquest, or wars, but the fact of the matter is jesus did prepare his men to fight, then changed his mind (by the way that is an attribute that does not befit god, god does not change his mind)

And in any matter that is brought to court under sharia law.
That you are blind to inequity you've already expressed through your favor of polygamy.

The claim that there must be 2 women for 1 man as witness in every case is plainly false if you open the quran 24:4 it states that 4 witnesses are needed to accuse a person of fornication, it is not specific of male or female this is something that 1 male is equal to 1 female.
Yes I do favor pologamy, and it is rather simply why, the prophets of your bible were polygamist, and also from a practical stand point, according to the US censor Bureau, there is 143 Million Females to 138 Million Males that is an average of 96 men to 100 women, the question is what happens to these 4 women who don�t get a husband? Do you say it is ok for them to become lesbians?  Islam says no they can marry a man that is already married.
http://factfinder.census.gov/jsp/saff/SAFFInfo.jsp?_pageId=tp3_gender

So how could we judge whether an activity is Christian or not?

Why did you change the question, it was not if an activity was christian or not, it was the person is a christian or not.  There is a big difference, because a muslim goes and drinks alcohol that does not give me the right to say he is not a muslim, I have the right to say this action is not that of a muslim, but I have NO rights to say he was not a muslim.  Yet you are there saying Hitler is not a christian, and you are not unique in this to say ok you made a mistake when saying what you said, this is common with every christian that I speak with they love saying someone is nto a christian when that person does something they don�t agree with.

Whether that dark period of Catholicism, EXACTLY CONTRARY to God's Word, or the perfectly consistent 1400 year slaughter of Islam, that is perfectly consistent with the behavior of the false prophet and and his book.

Really what about the war in iraq, a war that was first of based on a lie, conducted by evangelical christian George Bush, who said that he speaks to God before he made the decision to attack.  O wait I know your excuse George bush is not a christian right?  You follow a man that was a criminal that tricked you into believing that the messenger of god was actually god and then you call my prophet false, you need to wake up.

I even believe in death bed repentance if it is genuine.

Make your mind up, does a person need the blood of Jesus or to be genuine and repent to god and do what is right? Also i dont believe in death bed repentance, because before pharoa was killed in the ocean he finally believed in the god of moses but it was too late then, so there is a time when that becomes too late.

And that is why they murder each other. Perhaps you don't but at least some of them even consider each other apostate. That's HOW they can murder each other.
Oh yea, and remember the fruit thing?

You blame the deen because a few people that are not knowledgable and have political agendas and say this is islam? Come on man how silly do you really have to be? There are stories upon stories of not our prophet but those that came after him who have been kind to the people and there is one story that shows the fruit of islam best.  One of the Caliphs was walking through the city and saw an old jew man begging, then he asked him why are you begging, he said so that I can pay the Jizya, imediately the caliph announced that no old person should be the Jizya and that they should be given pension.  That is the fruit of islam, that is what islam teaches, to be just in your actions.  But you are here blaming the entire religion for a few that are not following the teachings of the prophet.  I don�t think any muslim sits here and says because some crazy christian leader like george bush is blowing up a country based on a lie, you don�t find us saying that it is christianity, we say it is him.  But you don�t know how to be just, you require justice but you cant give the same.

Indeed. Then I should say that Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children because of their disagreement regarding Islamic leadership? Is that better?

Again I already explained this if you are listening(reading) you wuold understand

Now that IS preposterous. Islamic Jihad: "OK we are going to take your town over. Just let us steal what we want, and give us your women and girls so we can sexually enslave them in our harems, and nobody will get hurt."
Just like the Imam in England: "England will be ruled under sharia law whether by submission of by force. Those that don't oppose us will live."

What a lie, islamic Jihad is not like this what so ever, first of Jihad means Struggle, you struggle for what is right, so if you were attacked you fight jihad to avenge your people, and if there are those that support your enmies not willing to uphold to treaties you sign with them then you fight them too.  As for slaves captured in war, the prophet taught us to marry the slaves and free them because there is reward in this.
As for the imam in england, I would have to listen to the context of what he said, and also even if this was exactly true with the context you give, that does not make it right in islam.  You don�t kill innocent people that is a direct teaching in islam.

So your god assigns them these sex slaves as spoils of war. Unless of course you are going to make the preposterous suggestion that they took these slaves pressed into service as wives and concubines, for doing a little dusting around the tent.

First of what rights to slaves have in your religion? In islam we are told multiple ways to free them.  In the bible it tells you that slaves can be passed of as property in inheritance, and does not give you situations to free them either.  O wait you are going to tell me that that was the OT and you don�t follow the OT you follow the NT, so lets see what we have there. Colossians 3:22, 1 Peter 2:18, and 1 Timothy 6:1 tells you how they should deal with you, so don�t give me the crap about the NT doesn�t promote slavery. And read LEVITICUS 25:46 to see that they are just property like land.  And I would like to know what laws are in your bible for taking care of slaves?

Not to mention the slaughter of 1400 years of Jiahd.

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and their heads left on the steps of a Church. The note left behind reads: "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

You have become like a broken record now, I already explained to you that killing of innocent people is forbidden in islam, even on the battle field if a person was to ask for aslyum a muslim is to grant it, and not only grant it but to take that person to safety�
009.006
YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

The account of Jesus' crucifixion is detailed in the bible and historical record. Again, you are welcome to characterize it any way you choose. That is up to you. It will be Jesus that you face in judgment regarding your choices:

As I said, and if jesus is god I will say exactly the same thing to him, the claim is he came to die for my sins, and was murdered.  He was not sacrificed for my sins, but was killed for blasphemy.  So that logic that he died for my sins falls apart because if his intention was to die for my sins he commited suicide for my sins first of, and according to the book of god suicide is forbidden.

See Son of God thread. Yours is a STAND ALONE RELIGION created by a 7th century FALSE PROPHET. It is HE that causes you transgression at every turn.

It is funny you say this, because I believe the religion of god would be stand alone, it would be most unique, because it is not corrupted by men or satan.  So thanks for pointint out, any religion of the devil will have one of the greatest flaw, it will ascribe partners to god, once the devil has done that to any religion, there is nothing more to do, because from there the people will stray to complete disbelief in god.  How great it is that you mention that fact!!!

[Pete]

Why did you change the question, it was not if an activity was christian or not, it was the person is a christian or not. 

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Is genocide of God?

There is a big difference, because a muslim goes and drinks alcohol that does not give me the right to say he is not a muslim, I have the right to say this action is not that of a muslim, but I have NO rights to say he was not a muslim. 

Are you trying to say that Sunniis and Shiites don't consider each other apostates?

Yet you are there saying Hitler is not a christian,

Unequivocally. Nor the black hearted popes that murdered millions of Christians.

and you are not unique in this to say ok you made a mistake when saying what you said, this is common with every christian that I speak with they love saying someone is nto a christian when that person does something they don’t agree with.

Genocide isn't a matter of equivocation. Those I can understand your confusion with the middle eastern Islamic countries sworn to genocide of the Jews.

Whether that dark period of Catholicism, EXACTLY CONTRARY to God's Word, or the perfectly consistent 1400 year slaughter of Islam, that is perfectly consistent with the behavior of the false prophet and and his book.

Really what about the war in iraq, a war that was first of based on a lie, conducted by evangelical christian George Bush, who said that he speaks to God before he made the decision to attack.  O wait I know your excuse George bush is not a christian right?  You follow a man that was a criminal that tricked you into believing that the messenger of god was actually god and then you call my prophet false,

Your prophet IS false. At every turn. You are making the mistake of judging your false prophet against George Bush. You need to measure him against God's Holy Word and Jesus Christ. You can start here: http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus.htm

you need to wake up.

I even believe in death bed repentance if it is genuine.

Make your mind up, does a person need the blood of Jesus or to be genuine and repent to god and do what is right?

It's not about my mind. If a person truly repents on his death bed, he will be saved. I think even Catholics who are into the Islamic style "works" bit would agree (though I can't answer for them).

Also i dont believe in death bed repentance,

Of course you don't. Your god measures on a good/bad scale. Once one is bad enough, the only way he can get a ticket to heaven is by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. That's the prime motivator of homicide bombers.

because before pharoa was killed in the ocean he finally believed in the god of moses but it was too late then, so there is a time when that becomes too late.

And that is why they murder each other. Perhaps you don't but at least some of them even consider each other apostate. That's HOW they can murder each other.
Oh yea, and remember the fruit thing?

You blame the deen because a few people that are not knowledgable and have political agendas and say this is islam?

No. It's about Mohammed's good/bad scale. That's why they murder innocent Jews to get their rivers of wine and resealable virgins in heaven.

Come on man how silly do you really have to be? There are stories upon stories of not our prophet but those that came after him who have been kind to the people and there is one story that shows the fruit of islam best.  One of the Caliphs was walking through the city and saw an old jew man begging, then he asked him why are you begging, he said so that I can pay the Jizya, imediately the caliph announced that no old person should be the Jizya and that they should be given pension. That is the fruit of islam, that is what islam teaches, to be just in your actions. 

So your big story of kindness is about how the enslaved got a temporary reprieve from the enslaving jizya tax?
You are indeed the fruit of Islam.
But God gives us our right to be free. Our framers well understood this.
Only a warped mind could construe relief from a satanic tax, to somehow be "kind".

But you are here blaming the entire religion for a few that are not following the teachings of the prophet.  I don’t think any muslim sits here and says because some crazy christian leader like george bush

Again, your self-serving confusion regarding the secular world and Christianity.
God was removed from the U.S. government in 1947 through Everson and the "separation of church and state" that somehow was not noticed in the constitution over the prior 180 years.

is blowing up a country based on a lie, you don’t find us saying that it is christianity, we say it is him.  But you don’t know how to be just, you require justice but you cant give the same.

Indeed. Then I should say that Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children because of their disagreement regarding Islamic leadership? Is that better?

Again I already explained this if you are listening(reading) you wuold understand

I well understand that Sunnis and Shiites blow up each other's innocent men, women and children. Which part of this didn't I get right? Do you really think the specific reason matters? It's all of satan, on both sides. That's why it happens.

[Pete]

Now that IS preposterous. Islamic Jihad: "OK we are going to take your town over. Just let us steal what we want, and give us your women and girls so we can sexually enslave them in our harems, and nobody will get hurt."
Just like the Imam in England: "England will be ruled under sharia law whether by submission of by force. Those that don't oppose us will live."first of Jihad means Struggle, you struggle for what is right, so if you were attacked you fight jihad to avenge your people, and if there are those that support your enmies not willing to uphold to treaties you sign with them then you fight them too.  As for slaves captured in war, the prophet taught us to marry the slaves and free them because there is reward in this.

Indeed. Presented here for everyone to see. "Freeing" what God considers to be free people to begin with.
Sex slaves. But then you get concubinage too!

As for the imam in england, I would have to listen to the context of what he said, and also even if this was exactly true with the context you give, that does not make it right in islam.  You don't kill innocent people that is a direct teaching in islam.

That has been the way of Islam for 1400 years. What you are saying is that if someone doesn't bow down and submit to satan, then they are not innocent. That's why 2 million have been slain in the Sudan alone in this Islamic Second Jihad. That's your stinking context for the "unbelievers" in Satan:
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

So your god assigns them these sex slaves as spoils of war. Unless of course you are going to make the preposterous suggestion that they took these slaves pressed into service as wives and concubines, for doing a little dusting around the tent.

First of what rights to slaves have in your religion? In islam we are told multiple ways to free them.  In the bible it tells you that slaves can be passed of as property in inheritance, and does not give you situations to free them either.  O wait you are going to tell me that that was the OT and you don�t follow the OT you follow the NT, so lets see what we have there. Colossians 3:22, 1 Peter 2:18, and 1 Timothy 6:1 tells you how they should deal with you, so don�t give me the crap about the NT doesn�t promote slavery. And read LEVITICUS 25:46 to see that they are just property like land.

Exactly the role of WOMEN as property - not even slaves - are treated in Islam TODAY:
"Saudi society is based on Masters and slaves....To be more precise masters and maids... masters are the men and slaves are the women.... The ownership of a woman is passed from one man to another.... from the father or the brother, to another man, the husband."
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1465wmv&ak=null

And I would like to know what laws are in your bible for taking care of slaves?

Not to mention the slaughter of 1400 years of Jiahd.

In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and their heads left on the steps of a Church. The note left behind reads: "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

You have become like a broken record now, I already explained to you that killing of innocent people is forbidden in islam,

But smiting of unbelievers - that's a different subject altogether:
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Satan's filth as shown in the quoted immediately above.

even on the battle field if a person was to ask for aslyum a muslim is to grant it, and not only grant it but to take that person to safety�
009.006
YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

The account of Jesus' crucifixion is detailed in the bible and historical record. Again, you are welcome to characterize it any way you choose. That is up to you. It will be Jesus that you face in judgment regarding your choices:

As I said, and if jesus is god I will say exactly the same thing to him, the claim is he came to die for my sins, and was murdered.  He was not sacrificed for my sins, but was killed for blasphemy.  So that logic that he died for my sins falls apart because if his intention was to die for my sins he commited suicide for my sins first of, and according to the book of god suicide is forbidden.

See Son of God thread. Yours is a STAND ALONE RELIGION created by a 7th century FALSE PROPHET. It is HE that causes you transgression at every turn.

It is funny you say this, because I believe the religion of god would be stand alone, it would be most unique,

And truly 7th century Mohammedanism is.

because it is not corrupted by men or satan.  

After all. There must not have been a God before Mohammed's God that was the opposite of the God of the Christians and Jews.

So thanks for pointint out, any religion of the devil will have one of the greatest flaw, it will ascribe partners to god,

As in, for example, the Son of God? http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus.htm

once the devil has done that to any religion, there is nothing more to do, because from there the people will stray to complete disbelief in god.  How great it is that you mention that fact!!!

Indeed. So why not go blow yourself up among the Jews or kafir, in general in accordance with your god, and enjoy your rivers of wine, and resealable virgins? Oh yea, and the rest of what California, otherwise, has to offer of the Islamic heaven. http://www.beholdthebeast.com/aljana_the_islamic_view_of_heaven.htm

[naliakbar]

Is genocide of God?

Again what was the question we started of with, why are you deflecting the question?  The question is not what activity was christian or not, but if a person is christian or not how can you as a christian say they are not.  But you ask is genocide of god, well lets see what your bible has to say about genocide and then you tell me if it is from god.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them�the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites�as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

It sounds to me that God of the bible is a promoter of Genocide what do you think?

Are you trying to say that Sunniis and Shiites don't consider each other apostates?

You are catching on, that is absolutely correct.  And now I want to make sure you don't come with the crap about some sect of sunni or shia that started teaching about another prophet or something like that because they are apostates.

Unequivocally. Nor the black hearted popes that murdered millions of Christians.

Which comes back to the original question, did god give you the authority to know that a person is a christian or not?  And how do you know the heart of the pope was black?  You say because they murdered millions of Christian, it amazes me how you know your history but deny that the chruch changed your teachings.

Genocide isn't a matter of equivocation. Those I can understand your confusion with the middle eastern Islamic countries sworn to genocide of the Jews.

I forgive your ignorance, Muslims DON�T HATE JEWS, we hate ZIONISTS, and yeah I know you will bring up that Isreal was promised to the jews so lets address that before you waste another day in my life.  Our brother love to qoute the verse from the bible so lets go there:

GENESIS 17:7-9
7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."
9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.
You can also read: GENESIS 13:15, EXODUS 32:13
NOW, if you read this the way that I read it as stating that the DECENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and NOT the decendants of Judah, then you must admit that this prophecy is fulfilled with the ARABS living in this place.  The Arabs trace their lineage to Ishmile the SON of ABRAHAM.  So like I said muslims hate the zionists not jews.

Your prophet IS false. At every turn. You are making the mistake of judging your false prophet against George Bush. You need to measure him against God's Holy Word and Jesus Christ. You can start here:

So you want to measure prophethood, well no problem, First of I don�t believe Muhammad (saw) to be god, so that being the case, I cant compare him to your god.  So lets compare him to a prophet we can both agree on, MOSES.
Moses fought wars and killed people and took virgins for himself and his men, Muhammad did similar, he didn�t kill children except those accidentally killed on the battle field.
Moses brought his people a book, Muhammad(saw) did as well
Moese fled with his people from one place to another, Sdo did Muhammad(Saw)
Moses was raised in a household outside of his parents home, so was Muhammad(saw)
Moses was a part of the ruling family, so was Muhammad(SAW)
Moses had multiple wives, so did Muhammad(saw)
SO when I compare my prophet with a prophet we can both agree is a prophet they match up identically.  But then I guess you reject the teaching and prophethood of moses because he was not a christians?  And if you accept that this is fact then I ask you to open your bible to
Deuteronomy 18:18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
And every muslim will tell you that the Quran was an oral revelation that was given to mankind, and everything that was told to him he commanded to us.  That is from your bible a book you claim you believe in, yet you reject what even your bible teaches you?

It's not about my mind. If a person truly repents on his death bed, he will be saved. I think even Catholics who are into the Islamic style "works" bit would agree (though I can't answer for them).

We have a different defination of repentance, I know from the story of Pharao when he was drowning he finally accepted that moses was telling the truth about god but it was too late for him.  That is the closest you can get to death bed repentance, that is recorded for both of us to look at and contemplate on.  So tell me what is this defination of repentance in your mind?  For me it is to change your ways, and to get onto the path of truth.  Now does that mean a person in the hospital cannot repent no I am not saying that.  For me death bed is when you are literally minuites from dying, if you are in bed a month before you die that to me is not death bed, because you were preparing to die there.

Of course you don't. Your god measures on a good/bad scale. Once one is bad enough, the only way he can get a ticket to heaven is by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. That's the prime motivator of homicide bombers.

You are right and I just explained again to you why I don�t believe in death bed repentance.  As for the measure of good/bad, yes I believe that for every atom's weight of good a person does and for every atom weight of bad they do they will be rewarded for it on the day of judgement.  As for suicide the quran is clear about this not being something that a person should do:

Quran 4:29-30
004.029
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!
004.030
YUSUFALI: If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.

Also from the hadiths it is clear that the prophet forbade the killing of innocent women and children:

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 257:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 19:
Book 019, Number 4320:
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

So again islam teaches that killing of innocent women and children are forbidden by the teachings of the prophet.

No. It's about Mohammed's good/bad scale. That's why they murder innocent Jews to get their rivers of wine and resealable virgins in heaven.

Who are you fooling man, first of I want to make sure there is a defination here, zionist compared to jews, and the attacks on the zionist state is not all innocent, and you compare the innocent of the zionist state numbers to the innocent of the palenstinian state, a person like me is surprised that there are not more attacks on the zionist state.  You see on western media helicopters and tanks ravaging a town killing innocent children and women while they are sleeping and not even a single apology about it.

So your big story of kindness is about how the enslaved got a temporary reprieve from the enslaving jizya tax?

Jizya is paid by those that live in muslim land and are not taxed like muslims.  A muslim is taxed Zakaat a religious tax, they are taxed Sadaqah which can happen any time for any instance for the community, and here the non muslim only gets taxed once a year to collect money to run the society and it is not a tax that is high either, and you call this enslavement.  You are seriously kidding yourself.  Tell me which christian nation can we go to where there is absolutly no tax what so ever, if you cant find one then I think you know how stupid you sound to me.  The only country that I know of that does not have tax, the the republic of Korea, and well we know they are not christian.

You are indeed the fruit of Islam.
But God gives us our right to be free. Our framers well understood this.
Only a warped mind could construe relief from a satanic tax, to somehow be "kind".

Again tell me what christian nation can we both move to and not have a tax to pay for living in that state?  If you cant find one, you should admit that the jizya is practical.

Again, your self-serving confusion regarding the secular world and Christianity.
God was removed from the U.S. government in 1947 through Everson and the "separation of church and state" that somehow was not noticed in the constitution over the prior 180 years.

Man you I know you cant claim that you misunderstood what I said because it was written down for you to read not something I said.  And I did say that muslims don�t blame christianity because of what some crazy christian does, so why do you go to that extreme for muslims?

Indeed. Presented here for everyone to see. "Freeing" what God considers to be free people to begin with.
Sex slaves. But then you get concubinage too!

What don�t you get about POWs being slaves after a war?  

That has been the way of Islam for 1400 years. What you are saying is that if someone doesn't bow down and submit to satan, then they are not innocent. That's why 2 million have been slain in the Sudan alone in this Islamic Second Jihad. That's your stinking context for the "unbelievers" in Satan:
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Do you know the difference between civil war and religious war? America went through the same thing every nation that has become great had a civil war of some form, do I agree what is happening with Sudan absolutely not, but that is what happens with nations where people want change, again civil war.
You keep qouting a beautiful verse, but you are worst than an ostridge because you stick your head in the sand when it comes to understanding what is is teaching, it tells us to strike fear on the battle field this is how you win wars.  If your enemy is afraid of you even coming close they will retreat, that is just common sense but as they say common sense is not really common today.

Exactly the role of WOMEN as property - not even slaves - are treated in Islam TODAY:
"Saudi society is based on Masters and slaves....To be more precise masters and maids... masters are the men and slaves are the women.... The ownership of a woman is passed from one man to another.... from the father or the brother, to another man, the husband."

Where in the quran or authentic teaching of the prophet Muhammad (Saw) does it state that a woman is to be passed from one man to another from father to brother to what ever?  That was a jewish custom, when a woman didn�t bear children, which by the way god killed 2 brothers for, so even if this was upheld by islam (which it is not), you would be saying that you are not in agreement with the god of the bible.

But smiting of unbelievers - that's a different subject altogether:
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Satan's filth as shown in the quoted immediately above.

Do you see how stupid this argument is? If islam commands that you don�t kill innocent people, don�t you think it means innocent people of your enemies? And if it means innoncent people of the enemies, I think that also includes the unbelievers,  like I said in the qoute you qouted, you are sounding like a broken record, because you have no real issues with islam, instead you bring up waste of time arguments. You asked about genocide, I just showed you that god promoted this in your bible.  No where in islam we are told to kill people to the last, we are to kill those on the battle field unless they ask for protection or they surrender.  From your bible it talks about god commanding the killing of everyone in sight.  And you tell me that my quran is satan derived, I wonder what you really feel about your bible?

After all. There must not have been a God before Mohammed's God that was the opposite of the God of the Christians and Jews.

See the reason you think that the god of islam is different from the god of Jews and Christians, is because we don�t accept that god is a trinity, we believe only in what they refer in the christian religion as the Father.  And the jews believe the same.  And when you read the bible you find that the god of the jews (the father) is exactly who Allah of the quran claims to be.  Not only does god set up laws for you to follow, but gives mankind the responsibility to forbid the evil be it by punishiment of death or whipping or what ever else there is in the books.  Ofcourse I have to say this with caution, because I don�t believe that every discription of the bible fits god almightly.  Like for instance is there  a christian or Jew alive that believes that god cannot defeat who ever god wants his people to defeat?  I think the answer is no, but when you  open up your bible you find the following:

JUDGES 1:19 - The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.[/i]

Can you believe that god is weak against iron chariots?  Yet this is what your bible teaches, so you are very correct if you say that muslims don�t accept god as described in the bible, because there is quality that do not befit god.  

Indeed. So why not go blow yourself up among the Jews or kafir, in general in accordance with your god, and enjoy your rivers of wine, and resealable virgins? Oh yea, and the rest of what California, otherwise, has to offer of the Islamic heaven.

Why would I condem myself?  I just showed you in this text that god forbade killing of one's self as well as god forbade killing of innocent women and children.  As for the description of heaven, yes god gave mankind a small portion that we can understand what heaven has to offer as compared to hell.  Who would not love to be walking in a garden under which rivers flow, as compared to hell where the least of punishment is a slipper on your feet that causes your brains to boil.  The reason these examples of what heaven has to offer is so that mankind will know what god is talking about.  Imagine that god said that when you get into heaven you will have grenorienwoejkyocipwenru and nweruiabetryseirn  but you have no idea what that is, what gets you to take your faith seriously?  This is why so many people are turning to satanism and athiesm and what ever other isms there are out there the majority of which are former christians.  Because they don�t see what they will receive when life is over with.

[Peter]

Is genocide of God?

Again what was the question we started of with, why are you deflecting the question?  The question is not what activity was christian or not, but if a person is christian or not how can you as a christian say they are not.

It's the bible that measures them:
Mark 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

But you ask is genocide of god, well lets see what your bible has to say about genocide and then you tell me if it is from god.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them�the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites�as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

It sounds to me that God of the bible is a promoter of Genocide what do you think?

It is comical that you use the very book that your false prophet lays claim to, against God.

Even more comically you have to go back 3500 years to the beginnings of mankind to justify the reprobate behavior of your 7th century false prophet.

And as long as you ignore the new covenant you will be riding to perdition on the back of your false prophet.

Are you trying to say that Sunniis and Shiites don't consider each other apostates?

You are catching on, that is absolutely correct.  And now I want to make sure you don't come with the crap about some sect of sunni or shia that started teaching about another prophet or something like that because they are apostates.

Well it's interesting that Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children over what ever difference they have. What a peaceful world it would be if ruled by these two antichrist factions. A whole world like Iraq.

Unequivocally. Nor the black hearted popes that murdered millions of Christians.

Which comes back to the original question, did god give you the authority to know that a person is a christian or not?  And how do you know the heart of the pope was black?  You say because they murdered millions of Christian, it amazes me how you know your history but deny that the chruch changed your teachings.

The papal murder of christians and the Crusades happened during the Christian era. There have been no changes.
That's why Mohammed and his anti-religion religion is such a tragedy.

Genocide isn't a matter of equivocation. Those I can understand your confusion with the middle eastern Islamic countries sworn to genocide of the Jews.

I forgive your ignorance, Muslims DON�T HATE JEWS,

Don't be silly. This hadith was written long before the restoration of the Jews to their land.
Hadith: Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!

we hate ZIONISTS, and yeah I know you will bring up that Isreal was promised to the jews so lets address that before you waste another day in my life.  Our brother love to qoute the verse from the bible so lets go there:

GENESIS 17:7-9
7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."
9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.
You can also read: GENESIS 13:15, EXODUS 32:13
NOW, if you read this the way that I read it as stating that the DECENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and NOT the decendants of Judah, then you must admit that this prophecy is fulfilled with the ARABS living in this place.  The Arabs trace their lineage to Ishmile the SON of ABRAHAM.  So like I said muslims hate the zionists not jews.

Indeed, Ishmael was a problem even from the womb.
The promise is BETWEEN God and Isaac, not Ismael.
Muslims have kept NONE of the covenants. Never followed the law. No circumcision, etc. disqualified on so many counts it's ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LUUrSuRquo

But you continue not to explain how Zionism is responsible for 2 million dead in the Sudan. It is the evil of Islam and the seed of Ishmael.

Your prophet IS false. At every turn. You are making the mistake of judging your false prophet against George Bush. You need to measure him against God's Holy Word and Jesus Christ. You can start here:

So you want to measure prophethood, well no problem, First of I don�t believe Muhammad (saw) to be god, so that being the case, I cant compare him to your god.  So lets compare him to a prophet we can both agree on, MOSES.

I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament covenants were for the Jews and the law.
I am a Gentile. The only path to salvation for a Gentile is under the new covenant through Jesus Christ.
You deny the blood of Jesus Christ.
That is the only issue that matters in the entirety of this forum.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Moses fought wars and killed people and took virgins for himself and his men, Muhammad did similar, he didn�t kill children except those accidentally killed on the battle field.
Moses brought his people a book, Muhammad(saw) did as well
Moese fled with his people from one place to another, Sdo did Muhammad(Saw)
Moses was raised in a household outside of his parents home, so was Muhammad(saw)
Moses was a part of the ruling family, so was Muhammad(SAW)
Moses had multiple wives, so did Muhammad(saw)
SO when I compare my prophet with a prophet we can both agree is a prophet they match up identically.  But then I guess you reject the teaching and prophethood of moses because he was not a christians?  And if you accept that this is fact then I ask you to open your bible to
Deuteronomy 18:18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
And every muslim will tell you that the Quran was an oral revelation that was given to mankind, and everything that was told to him he commanded to us.  That is from your bible a book you claim you believe in, yet you reject what even your bible teaches you?

The evil of Islam around the world today makes a mockery of your preposterous presumption.

It's not about my mind. If a person truly repents on his death bed, he will be saved. I think even Catholics who are into the Islamic style "works" bit would agree (though I can't answer for them).

We have a different defination of repentance, I know from the story of Pharao when he was drowning he finally accepted that moses was telling the truth about god but it was too late for him.  That is the closest you can get to death bed repentance, that is recorded for both of us to look at and contemplate on.  So tell me what is this defination of repentance in your mind?  For me it is to change your ways, and to get onto the path of truth.  Now does that mean a person in the hospital cannot repent no I am not saying that.  For me death bed is when you are literally minuites from dying, if you are in bed a month before you die that to me is not death bed, because you were preparing to die there.

One can be saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ even moments from death. And be spared the second death.

Of course you don't. Your god measures on a good/bad scale. Once one is bad enough, the only way he can get a ticket to heaven is by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. That's the prime motivator of homicide bombers.

You are right and I just explained again to you why I don�t believe in death bed repentance.  As for the measure of good/bad, yes I believe that for every atom's weight of good a person does and for every atom weight of bad they do they will be rewarded for it on the day of judgement.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

As for suicide

Quit deflecting. Call it homicide. Whether the murder in the Sudan and around the world, or whether a guy happens to blow himself up in the process.
Your false prophet's phony book is a mass of confusion. That's why Islam comes down to the most murderous common denominator/dominator.

the quran is clear about this not being something that a person should do:

Quran 4:29-30
004.029
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!
004.030
YUSUFALI: If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.

Also from the hadiths it is clear that the prophet forbade the killing of innocent women and children:

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 257:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 19:
Book 019, Number 4320:
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

So again islam teaches that killing of innocent women and children are forbidden by the teachings of the prophet.

And as any true Muslim would say consider the context.
In THAT battle. It is a book that serves any amount of reprobate behavior, just as it supported the prophet Mohammed's reprobate behavior. Awarding him wives. Allowing him to steal his step-sons wife. Pimping out slaves for cash. etc.

[Peter]

No. It's about Mohammed's good/bad scale. That's why they murder innocent Jews to get their rivers of wine and resealable virgins in heaven.

Who are you fooling man, first of I want to make sure there is a defination here, zionist compared to jews, and the attacks on the zionist state is not all innocent, and you compare the innocent of the zionist state numbers to the innocent of the palenstinian state,

Before I finish up, who was the leader of your so-called Palestinian "state" before Yassar Arafat in 1967?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciUb9wSkbnE

[naliakbar]

Is genocide of God?

Again what was the question we started of with, why are you deflecting the question?  The question is not what activity was christian or not, but if a person is christian or not how can you as a christian say they are not.

It's the bible that measures them:
Mark 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I know I am speaking english, I really don’t know in what language both of you understand what I am saying… I don’t care what a person would be judged by, I care about what gives YOU the ability to say they are christian or not, when did god give you that power, because everything in that verse you qouted I can show you hitler or the likes of him meets it.
He believed and loved one god (actually 3 god's but that you would argue to me is 1)
In his soul and mind he followed this one god (again I say 3 but you would argue 1)
And he loved his neighbor this is why he barbequed some jews to protect his neighbor.

But you ask is genocide of god, well lets see what your bible has to say about genocide and then you tell me if it is from god.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

It sounds to me that God of the bible is a promoter of Genocide what do you think?

It is comical that you use the very book that your false prophet lays claim to, against God.

Even more comically you have to go back 3500 years to the beginnings of mankind to justify the reprobate behavior of your 7th century false prophet.

And as long as you ignore the new covenant you will be riding to perdition on the back of your false prophet.

No what is comical is that your own book says things that you don’t agree with, and you still believe it to be the works of god.  I don’t believe in the bible, but you do, and my reason for showing you what your bible says is simply to show how much of a double standard you have in talking.  We never said muhammad was like jesus(muhammad had a mother and father, jesus had only a mother), we do say he was like moses and from your own records you find that they are very much the same, yet you don’t believe in your own book so ofcourse you have issues with islam.

Are you trying to say that Sunniis and Shiites don't consider each other apostates?

You are catching on, that is absolutely correct.  And now I want to make sure you don’t come with the crap about some sect of sunni or shia that started teaching about another prophet or something like that because they are apostates.

Well it's interesting that Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children over what ever difference they have. What a peaceful world it would be if ruled by these two antichrist factions. A whole world like Iraq.

What do they murder each other for? Not religion but LAND!!!! And ofcourse the land has nothing to do with islam, the only sacred grounds for muslims is Mecca and Medina, and both sunni and shia meet up in these places for Hajj, so again that is direct proof there is no fight for theology but rather LAND.

Unequivocally. Nor the black hearted popes that murdered millions of Christians.

Which comes back to the original question, did god give you the authority to know that a person is a christian or not?  And how do you know the heart of the pope was black?  You say because they murdered millions of Christian, it amazes me how you know your history but deny that the chruch changed your teachings.

The papal murder of christians and the Crusades happened during the Christian era. There have been no changes.
That's why Mohammed and his anti-religion religion is such a tragedy.

Really who finalized your bible to determine the scriptures that should be used? The last time I heard it was the "chruch fathers" and who were they? They were the early Roman Catholics.

Genocide isn't a matter of equivocation. Those I can understand your confusion with the middle eastern Islamic countries sworn to genocide of the Jews.

I forgive your ignorance, Muslims DON’T HATE JEWS,

Don't be silly. This hadith was written long before the restoration of the Jews to their land.
Hadith: Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!.

Why don’t you give the reader your source so they can go and read it themselves? So that they will see that this was specific about a time when the muslims will be fighting the Dajjal (antichrist) and his jewish army.

we hate ZIONISTS, and yeah I know you will bring up that Isreal was promised to the jews so lets address that before you waste another day in my life.  Our brother love to qoute the verse from the bible so lets go there:

GENESIS 17:7-9
7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."
9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.
You can also read: GENESIS 13:15, EXODUS 32:13
NOW, if you read this the way that I read it as stating that the DECENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and NOT the decendants of Judah, then you must admit that this prophecy is fulfilled with the ARABS living in this place.  The Arabs trace their lineage to Ishmile the SON of ABRAHAM.  So like I said muslims hate the zionists not jews.

Indeed, Ishmael was a problem even from the womb.
The promise is BETWEEN God and Isaac, not Ismael.
Muslims have kept NONE of the covenants. Never followed the law. No circumcision, etc. disqualified on so many counts it's ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LUUrSuRquo

But you continue not to explain how Zionism is responsible for 2 million dead in the Sudan. It is the evil of Islam and the seed of Ishmael.

Really tell me what covenant did muslims not keep that christians keep?  You talk about circumcision, all muslim men are circumsized, infact just recently one of my friends had his circumcision, your friend pete talks about ahmed deedat, im sure he can point you to the vidoe where he talks about having it done at the age of 8, but tell me do all christians get circumcised? Last time I checked you believe in the heart getting circumsized and NOT the circumcision that god commanded Abraham and his children.  You say we never followed the law, please share which one, and also for each one you list show that christianity follows it.

As for Sudan, that is a country with a ethnic and tribal issue not a religious one.  It amazes me that when we talk about hitler we can diferenterate that he is not christianity, yet you cannot give the same outlook on some muslim that is doing exactly what hitler did.  It is sad that you cant even see how much of a double standard you have for life.

Your prophet IS false. At every turn. You are making the mistake of judging your false prophet against George Bush. You need to measure him against God's Holy Word and Jesus Christ. You can start here:

So you want to measure prophethood, well no problem, First of I don’t believe Muhammad (saw) to be god, so that being the case, I cant compare him to your god.  So lets compare him to a prophet we can both agree on, MOSES.

I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament covenants were for the Jews and the law.
I am a Gentile. The only path to salvation for a Gentile is under the new covenant through Jesus Christ.
You deny the blood of Jesus Christ.
That is the only issue that matters in the entirety of this forum.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

I do not believe that any man is better than any other man.  If god created us unequal well then we will have to take that up with god.  If you are a believer as I believe you will believe that ALL mankind came from Adam and Eve.  If you believe that then you must know that all men are equal.  Yes god choose the Jews over all Nations to spread his word, but they disobeyed God and jesus mentions that in your book that they preverted the religion of god.  As for what this forum is about, if you are here to convert me, then there is a big problem, because I am not here to convert you but to explain to you what we believe.  So if your attempt is to force you belief on me, then you are talking to the wrong person, god gave me a mind to think, and my mind tells me that an honest person would not blame others for his mistakes, and that being the case, when I talk to the judge I should be honest about my wrong doings, and it is up to the judge on how to punish or pardon me.  And that I believe is the same with god, if mankind can forgive each other, are you telling me god created us better than himself that is rediclious.

Moses fought wars and killed people and took virgins for himself and his men, Muhammad did similar, he didn’t kill children except those accidentally killed on the battle field.
Moses brought his people a book, Muhammad(saw) did as well
Moese fled with his people from one place to another, Sdo did Muhammad(Saw)
Moses was raised in a household outside of his parents home, so was Muhammad(saw)
Moses was a part of the ruling family, so was Muhammad(SAW)
Moses had multiple wives, so did Muhammad(saw)
SO when I compare my prophet with a prophet we can both agree is a prophet they match up identically.  But then I guess you reject the teaching and prophethood of moses because he was not a christians?  And if you accept that this is fact then I ask you to open your bible to
Deuteronomy 18:18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
And every muslim will tell you that the Quran was an oral revelation that was given to mankind, and everything that was told to him he commanded to us.  That is from your bible a book you claim you believe in, yet you reject what even your bible teaches you?

The evil of Islam around the world today makes a mockery of your preposterous presumption.

Not all the people that claim to be Jews follow the exact teachings of Moses, should I blame moses?  Come on how stupid is that?  Lets talk about the source, that is where the issue is so proove to me that muhammad(saW) is not a prophet like moses(saw) that would be refuting my presumption, not this bs about what is happening now, just like the jews people divated from the truth of islam the teachings of our prophet tells us this will happen so who the hell cares what those that don’t follow the religion are doing I care about the person who teachs me the religion and that is Muhammad(saw)

It's not about my mind. If a person truly repents on his death bed, he will be saved. I think even Catholics who are into the Islamic style "works" bit would agree (though I can't answer for them).

We have a different defination of repentance, I know from the story of Pharao when he was drowning he finally accepted that moses was telling the truth about god but it was too late for him.  That is the closest you can get to death bed repentance, that is recorded for both of us to look at and contemplate on.  So tell me what is this defination of repentance in your mind?  For me it is to change your ways, and to get onto the path of truth.  Now does that mean a person in the hospital cannot repent no I am not saying that.  For me death bed is when you are literally minuites from dying, if you are in bed a month before you die that to me is not death bed, because you were preparing to die there.

One can be saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ even moments from death. And be spared the second death.

You are not talking about repentance man you are talking about belief.  That is NOT repentance.  Also what I find intersting that most christians fail to tell the rest of the crazy people like myself, is that on the day of judgement according to your belief if god the father decided that jesus should not be your sin payer, then you are basically screwed, so you HAVE to depend on the mercy of the Father, and that being the case, if you still have to depend on the mercy of the father to grant you this "get into heaven free" card then why do you need the blood of jesus?  That shows how illogical this belief is. 

Of course you don't. Your god measures on a good/bad scale. Once one is bad enough, the only way he can get a ticket to heaven is by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. That's the prime motivator of homicide bombers.

You are right and I just explained again to you why I don’t believe in death bed repentance.  As for the measure of good/bad, yes I believe that for every atom's weight of good a person does and for every atom weight of bad they do they will be rewarded for it on the day of judgement.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

You are kidding right?  I know you are not trying to insinuate that this is what god says… this is a prayer of a prophet who is saying to god basically to forgive us  or we would be doom, it is not a doctrine that this is what our deeds are. 

As for suicide

Quit deflecting. Call it homicide. Whether the murder in the Sudan and around the world, or whether a guy happens to blow himself up in the process.
Your false prophet's phony book is a mass of confusion. That's why Islam comes down to the most murderous common denominator/dominator.

Deflecting?  Friend both of you have deflected the first basic question I asked, that I had to restate the question again.  And you tell me I am deflecting… come on I was born but not yesterday.  And I already explained to you and you are more than welcome to search the internet and you will find on non religious websites that it states exactly what I said about sudan, it is about ethnic cleansing not religion.

the quran is clear about this not being something that a person should do:

Quran 4:29-30
004.029
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!
004.030
YUSUFALI: If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.

Also from the hadiths it is clear that the prophet forbade the killing of innocent women and children:

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 257:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 19:
Book 019, Number 4320:
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

So again islam teaches that killing of innocent women and children are forbidden by the teachings of the prophet.

And as any true Muslim would say consider the context.
In THAT battle. It is a book that serves any amount of reprobate behavior, just as it supported the prophet Mohammed's reprobate behavior. Awarding him wives. Allowing him to steal his step-sons wife. Pimping out slaves for cash. etc.

WOW all of a sudden you know about context, holy shit, I didn’t think you even know the word exist, if alcohol was allowed in islam I would have to drink a gallon today to get over the fact that you actually know about something called context.  O wait, yeah you are a christian, context only works for you when it meets your purpose, and it doesn’t apply to everything you read.  Good thing I didn’t order the brandy yet.  As for the context, what I qouted was the full report as recorded in bukhari and muslim.  Also if you read the Muslim hadith, it says that when the propeht saw women and children killed he forbade it, that means after the war this was seen and he put a stop to it, that would be the context of that hadith, o wait you probably already forgot you know that there is something called context…. Do you need some ginko biloba?

[naliakbar]

No. It's about Mohammed's good/bad scale. That's why they murder innocent Jews to get their rivers of wine and resealable virgins in heaven.

Who are you fooling man, first of I want to make sure there is a defination here, zionist compared to jews, and the attacks on the zionist state is not all innocent, and you compare the innocent of the zionist state numbers to the innocent of the palenstinian state,

Before I finish up, who was the leader of your so-called Palestinian "state" before Yassar Arafat in 1967?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciUb9wSkbnE

the power of the internet you have to love it...

The Territory known today as Occupied Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire Federal State of the Levant or Bilad Al Sham.

At the end of WWI, the war's victors occupied this region and divided it in 1919 in a famous treaty called the Sikes-Picot Treaty. They Divided the Ottoman Federal State of the Levant into 4 Separate Regions which they called Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Trans-Jordan (Present Day Jordan).

During the period between 1919 and 1948, those sectors were ruthlessly occupied by the British and French armies and anyone who resisted was tortured and brutally killed.

the rest of this can be viewed on  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006031806611

so in short to your answer the Ottoman empire ruled palestine before the zionist state of israel was created.

[Peter]

Is genocide of God?

Again what was the question we started of with, why are you deflecting the question?  The question is not what activity was christian or not, but if a person is christian or not how can you as a christian say they are not.

It's the bible that measures them:
Mark 12:30  And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

I know I am speaking english, I really don’t know in what language both of you understand what I am saying… I don’t care what a person would be judged by, I care about what gives YOU the ability to say they are christian or not, when did god give you that power, because everything in that verse you qouted I can show you hitler or the likes of him meets it.
He believed and loved one god (actually 3 god's but that you would argue to me is 1)
In his soul and mind he followed this one god (again I say 3 but you would argue 1)
And he loved his neighbor this is why he barbequed some jews to protect his neighbor.

But surely even you can see that what you wrote above comes from your bigoted Muslim mind.
A mind that automatically divides the world into the dar el salaam and dar el harb just for openers.
Then proceeds to segregate out Jews for advanced hatred, and LONG BEFORE they were restored to their land.

For a Christian a Jew qualifies as a neighbor the same as a Muslim or Hindu or another Christian.
So killing peaceful, peace loving neighbors, obviously violates our commandment to love them.

Your answer offered excellent insight into a Muslim morality.

[Peter]

No. It's about Mohammed's good/bad scale. That's why they murder innocent Jews to get their rivers of wine and resealable virgins in heaven.

Who are you fooling man, first of I want to make sure there is a defination here, zionist compared to jews, and the attacks on the zionist state is not all innocent, and you compare the innocent of the zionist state numbers to the innocent of the palenstinian state,

Before I finish up, who was the leader of your so-called Palestinian "state" before Yassar Arafat in 1967?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciUb9wSkbnE

the power of the internet you have to love it...

The Territory known today as Occupied Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire Federal State of the Levant or Bilad Al Sham.

At the end of WWI, the war's victors occupied this region and divided it in 1919 in a famous treaty called the Sikes-Picot Treaty. They Divided the Ottoman Federal State of the Levant into 4 Separate Regions which they called Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Trans-Jordan (Present Day Jordan).

During the period between 1919 and 1948, those sectors were ruthlessly occupied by the British and French armies and anyone who resisted was tortured and brutally killed.

the rest of this can be viewed on  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006031806611

so in short to your answer the Ottoman empire ruled palestine before the zionist state of israel was created.

So then at least you understand that any so-called "palestinian" "state" is a modern fictional creation.
What do you suppose is so wrong with those people that countries in the area like Saudi Arabia hire from the pacific rim rather than the "palestinians"?
We need only to look at what happened in Gaza when they took over greenhouses that formerly produced over 100 million dollars worth of produce a year. But now the U.N. has to toss bags of rice off of trucks to feed them.

And "rule" is a bit of a stretch since virtually NOBODY even inhabited the area by the early 19th century. The population of Jerusalem was about 550 by 1827.

[Peter]

But you ask is genocide of god, well lets see what your bible has to say about genocide and then you tell me if it is from god.

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

It sounds to me that God of the bible is a promoter of Genocide what do you think?

It is comical that you use the very book that your false prophet lays claim to, against God.

Even more comically you have to go back 3500 years to the beginnings of mankind to justify the reprobate behavior of your 7th century false prophet.

And as long as you ignore the new covenant you will be riding to perdition on the back of your false prophet.

No what is comical is that your own book says things that you don’t agree with, and you still believe it to be the works of god.  I don’t believe in the bible, but you do,...

Exactly. Nobody who follows a 7th century false prophet can believe the bible. That is why your religion is properly called Mohammedanism.

...and my reason for showing you what your bible says is simply to show how much of a double standard you have in talking.  We never said muhammad was like jesus(muhammad had a mother and father, jesus had only a mother), we do say he was like moses and from your own records you find that they are very much the same, yet you don’t believe in your own book so ofcourse you have issues with islam.

You are chiseling around the edges again.
Here is THE MOST DEADLY VERSE in the Quran:

Surah 4.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

Mohammed's book pretends to nullify the new testament apostles and prophets and God's entire purpose behind it. Nothing else matters.

Are you trying to say that Sunniis and Shiites don't consider each other apostates?

You are catching on, that is absolutely correct.  And now I want to make sure you don’t come with the crap about some sect of sunni or shia that started teaching about another prophet or something like that because they are apostates.

Well it's interesting that Sunnis and Shiites murder each other's innocent men, women and children over what ever difference they have. What a peaceful world it would be if ruled by these two antichrist factions. A whole world like Iraq.

What do they murder each other for? Not religion but LAND!!!!

That's funny. And here a Muslim told me that the reason they consider each other apostates is because of their disagreement regarding rule in Islam. Whether through genetic succession or not.

And ofcourse the land has nothing to do with islam, the only sacred grounds for muslims is Mecca and Medina, and both sunni and shia meet up in these places for Hajj, so again that is direct proof there is no fight for theology but rather LAND.

Unequivocally. Nor the black hearted popes that murdered millions of Christians.

Which comes back to the original question, did god give you the authority to know that a person is a christian or not?

You keep ignoring my answer. Likely because nothing could condemn Islam more:
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

And how do you know the heart of the pope was black?

Because of the fruit. Just like murderous Islam around the world for 1400 years.

You say because they murdered millions of Christian, it amazes me how you know your history but deny that the chruch changed your teachings.

That Constantine altered the early church, and the Roman Catholic church is engaged in plenty of false teaching", I have readily admitted and it is in large part the subject of my last video. And it has some effect on the rest of the church as well.  I would have never denied this.

Don't look for satan to be working in Islam. His work is finished there. It is his religion. A boat he wouldn't want to rock. Muslims are all in his back pocket.
Look for satan in the church doing what he can to cart off Jesus' goods.

The papal murder of christians and the Crusades happened during the Christian era. There have been no changes.
That's why Mohammed and his anti-religion religion is such a tragedy.

Really who finalized your bible to determine the scriptures that should be used? The last time I heard it was the "chruch fathers" and who were they? They were the early Roman Catholics.

Many were. But God maintained the integrity of His Word. This was confirmed by discovery of some of the original papyrii at Qumran in 1947.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/bible_manuscript_errors_.htm

[Peter]

Genocide isn't a matter of equivocation. Those I can understand your confusion with the middle eastern Islamic countries sworn to genocide of the Jews.

I forgive your ignorance, Muslims DON’T HATE JEWS,

Don't be silly. This hadith was written long before the restoration of the Jews to their land.
Hadith: Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!.

Why don’t you give the reader your source so they can go and read it themselves? So that they will see that this was specific about a time when the muslims will be fighting the Dajjal (antichrist) and his jewish army.

The source? About a historical event? Get real. It is in the Hadith for Muslims to be able to copy their prophet's behavior.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_xHQ3lX9GE&feature=PlayList&p=B35DFF5C160F006B&index=0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2xnUTkxWjM&feature=PlayList&p=B35DFF5C160F006B&index=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da77TBGm6ak&feature=PlayList&p=B35DFF5C160F006B&index=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC648XsmbhQ&feature=PlayList&p=B35DFF5C160F006B&index=3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYB4pG3kHIY&feature=PlayList&p=B35DFF5C160F006B&index=5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbHVEGnYD8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQERHieZHcg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da77TBGm6ak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY0wbLnfD-w

we hate ZIONISTS, and yeah I know you will bring up that Isreal was promised to the jews so lets address that before you waste another day in my life.  Our brother love to qoute the verse from the bible so lets go there:

GENESIS 17:7-9
7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."
9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.
You can also read: GENESIS 13:15, EXODUS 32:13
NOW, if you read this the way that I read it as stating that the DECENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and NOT the decendants of Judah, then you must admit that this prophecy is fulfilled with the ARABS living in this place.  The Arabs trace their lineage to Ishmile the SON of ABRAHAM.  So like I said muslims hate the zionists not jews.

Indeed, Ishmael was a problem even from the womb.
The promise is BETWEEN God and Isaac, not Ismael.
Muslims have kept NONE of the covenants. Never followed the law. No circumcision, etc. disqualified on so many counts it's ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LUUrSuRquo

But you continue not to explain how Zionism is responsible for 2 million dead in the Sudan. It is the evil of Islam and the seed of Ishmael.

Really tell me what covenant did muslims not keep...

There are 613 laws. Are you that ignorant of Judaism yet pretend to have something to do with it?
Start with just the 7 laws of Noah that a sorely deluded Muslim told me Muslims keep:

7 laws of Noah prohibit:

IDOLATRY: Islam Kaaba - Black stone. Not too debatable. Catholics claim they don't worship idols too.
MURDER: Islamic imperialistic slaughter of the first Jihad into France and unto today.
THEFT: Entire Surah on “SPOILS OF WAR, BOOTY” of imperialistic conquest.
SEXUAL PROMISCUITY: 26 wives? +concubines. Joe gets 4+concs.
BLASPHEMY: God’s name is I AM. Jews can’t even speak it. Your god Allah
CRUELTY TO ANIMALS: Irrelevant in light of the rest.
REQUIREMENT TO HAVE JUST LAW: Sharia law. Woman half a man.

It's obvious how Mohammed measured up.

...that christians keep?

Christians aren't saved under the law. Gentiles are given a new covenant through Jesus Christ. BUT conform to God's will as the law is pressed on our heart by the Holy Ghost. Certainly opposite performance to the Muslims on just the 7 above.
As opposed to, for example, your selfish reprobate view regarding polygamy etc..

You talk about circumcision, all muslim men are circumsized, infact just recently one of my friends had his circumcision, your friend pete talks about ahmed deedat, im sure he can point you to the vidoe where he talks about having it done at the age of 8,

It is to be done at 8 DAYS old, not 8 years old!
See what I mean about your failure in the law?

but tell me do all christians get circumcised? Last time I checked you believe in the heart getting circumsized and NOT the circumcision that god commanded Abraham and his children.  You say we never followed the law, please share which one, and also for each one you list show that christianity follows it.

As for Sudan, that is a country with a ethnic and tribal issue not a religious one.

Either your ignorant or lying. The reality.

It amazes me that when we talk about hitler we can diferenterate that he is not christianity,...

God's Word differentiates, not us. Our minds deceive us as your display.

...yet you cannot give the same outlook on some muslim that is doing exactly what hitler did.

The Quran demands it. That's why there are Muslim murderers all around the world.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

It is sad that you cant even see how much of a double standard you have for life.

But I don't. God lights my way through His Word.
The false prophet shows you yours through his satanically inspired book.

Your prophet IS false. At every turn. You are making the mistake of judging your false prophet against George Bush. You need to measure him against God's Holy Word and Jesus Christ. You can start here:

So you want to measure prophethood, well no problem, First of I don’t believe Muhammad (saw) to be god, so that being the case, I cant compare him to your god.  So lets compare him to a prophet we can both agree on, MOSES.

I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. The Old Testament covenants were for the Jews and the law.
I am a Gentile. The only path to salvation for a Gentile is under the new covenant through Jesus Christ.
You deny the blood of Jesus Christ.
That is the only issue that matters in the entirety of this forum.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

I do not believe that any man is better than any other man.

God is no respecter of persons. He sends nobody to hell. Men make their own decisions to live in eternal damnation by running from the truth. And in your case, campaigning against the truth.

Heb10:29 OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

If god created us unequal well then we will have to take that up with god.  If you are a believer as I believe you will believe that ALL mankind came from Adam and Eve.  If you believe that then you must know that all men are equal.  Yes god choose the Jews over all Nations to spread his word, but they disobeyed God and jesus mentions that in your book that they preverted the religion of god.

Many of them did.

As for what this forum is about, if you are here to convert me, then there is a big problem,...

If you can't see the truth that's up to you.
The reason I keep bothering to repeat myself is to provide aid to others in the grip of Islam, and unlike you may well understand what a reprobate religion it is, and are ready to begin their journey out.
You make a fine example.

...because I am not here to convert you but to explain to you what we believe.

I only need to know this about what you believe to know that it is of Satan, THE OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ:

Surah 4.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- BUT THEY KILLED HIM NOT, NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, FOR OF A SURETY THEY KILLED HIM NOT:-

So if your attempt is to force you belief on me,

It's Islam that has always "converted" by the sword.
God's love through Christians is what has always converted folks to Christianity.

...then you are talking to the wrong person, god gave me a mind to think, and my mind tells me that an honest person would not blame others for his mistakes, and that being the case, when I talk to the judge I should be honest about my wrong doings, and it is up to the judge on how to punish or pardon me.  And that I believe is the same with god, if mankind can forgive each other,...

Muslim forgiveness?
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N6MafdQcATQ

...are you telling me god created us better than himself that is rediclious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ_26AE0G_8&feature=PlayList&p=89D3DCC3EC501AB7&index=0

[Peter]

Moses fought wars and killed people and took virgins for himself and his men, Muhammad did similar,...

But he did it as a 7th century reprobate a couple thousand years later.

... he didn’t kill children except those accidentally killed on the battle field.
Moses brought his people a book, Muhammad(saw) did as well

The false prophet brought his false book. That's why you have to deny the prophets and Apostles of the New Testament, and Jesus shed blood.

Moese fled with his people from one place to another, Sdo did Muhammad(Saw)
Moses was raised in a household outside of his parents home, so was Muhammad(saw)
Moses was a part of the ruling family, so was Muhammad(SAW)
Moses had multiple wives, so did Muhammad(saw)

Again, as a reprobate ages after it ended for Old Testament prophets. Just as you can't even see the immorality of it today. Why not ask your wife about it and see what she thinks. But then, she is just tilth.

SO when I compare my prophet with a prophet we can both agree is a prophet they match up identically.

Mohammed was a reprobate that kept no law but the one that he channeled for satan.

  But then I guess you reject the teaching and prophethood of moses because he was not a christians?  And if you accept that this is fact then I ask you to open your bible to
Deuteronomy 18:18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
And every muslim will tell you that the Quran was an oral revelation that was given to mankind, and everything that was told to him he commanded to us.  That is from your bible a book you claim you believe in, yet you reject what even your bible teaches you?

The evil of Islam around the world today makes a mockery of your preposterous presumption.

Not all the people that claim to be Jews follow the exact teachings of Moses, should I blame moses?  Come on how stupid is that?  Lets talk about the source, that is where the issue is so proove to me that muhammad(saW) is not a prophet like moses(saw)

He proved it through his book. http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_reviewed.htm

that would be refuting my presumption, not this bs about what is happening now, just like the jews people divated from the truth of islam the teachings of our prophet tells us this will happen so who the hell cares what those that don’t follow the religion are doing I care about the person who teachs me the religion and that is Muhammad(saw)

It's not about my mind. If a person truly repents on his death bed, he will be saved. I think even Catholics who are into the Islamic style "works" bit would agree (though I can't answer for them).

We have a different defination of repentance, I know from the story of Pharao when he was drowning he finally accepted that moses was telling the truth about god but it was too late for him.

Repentence has nothing to do with believing. Satan believes in Jesus Christ.

That is the closest you can get to death bed repentance, that is recorded for both of us to look at and contemplate on.  So tell me what is this defination of repentance in your mind? For me it is to change your ways, and to get onto the path of truth.

Indeed it is. But your effort goes to MISunderstanding the Word of God, toward supporting untruth, because God's Word conflicts with Mohammed's false book at every turn.
Repentence is simply about loving what God loves and hating what God hates and more importantly, having that reflected in one's life.
That's why I hate Islam. The reason I spend so much time at this is because I love Muslims.

  Now does that mean a person in the hospital cannot repent no I am not saying that.  For me death bed is when you are literally minuites from dying, if you are in bed a month before you die that to me is not death bed, because you were preparing to die there.

One can be saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ even moments from death. And be spared the second death.

You are not talking about repentance man you are talking about belief.  That is NOT repentance.

It requires repentence. It's up to Jesus Christ.

Also what I find intersting that most christians fail to tell the rest of the crazy people like myself, is that on the day of judgement according to your belief if god the father decided that jesus should not be your sin payer, ...

That's not possible because the New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies. The promised Messiah. The Gentile's intercessor.

...then you are basically screwed,...

No it's those disobedient that follow false prophets that are "basically screwed".

...so you HAVE to depend on the mercy of the Father, and that being the case, if you still have to depend on the mercy of the father...

If you die today, this will be a very big and unfortunate surprise for you:
Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

So whose "screwed"? The guy that has deluded himself into believing that he can get into heaven by thinking his way to God, or the one who follows and obeys God's Holy Word?

...to grant you this "get into heaven free" card then why do you need the blood of jesus?  That shows how illogical this belief is. 

If redemption came from logic and lies even Deedat might have made his way to glory.

Of course you don't. Your god measures on a good/bad scale. Once one is bad enough, the only way he can get a ticket to heaven is by blowing himself up in a bus load of Jewish school children. That's the prime motivator of homicide bombers.

You are right and I just explained again to you why I don’t believe in death bed repentance.  As for the measure of good/bad, yes I believe that for every atom's weight of good a person does and for every atom weight of bad they do they will be rewarded for it on the day of judgement.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

You are kidding right?  I know you are not trying to insinuate that this is what god says… this is a prayer of a prophet who is saying to god basically to forgive us  or we would be doom, it is not a doctrine that this is what our deeds are. 

It says what is. We are filth in God's eyes regardless of our works. God sent our only path to redemption. You reject His gift. We can only be saved through that blood:
Hebrews 9:22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

As for suicide

Quit deflecting. Call it homicide. Whether the murder in the Sudan and around the world, or whether a guy happens to blow himself up in the process.
Your false prophet's phony book is a mass of confusion. That's why Islam comes down to the most murderous common denominator/dominator.

Deflecting?  Friend both of you have deflected the first basic question I asked, that I had to restate the question again.  And you tell me I am deflecting… come on I was born but not yesterday.  And I already explained to you and you are more than welcome to search the internet and you will find on non religious websites that it states exactly what I said about sudan, it is about ethnic cleansing not religion.

You almost get it. It is Islamic cleansing of non-Muslims. Satan's work. Been going on for 1400 years and unto today.

the quran is clear about this not being something that a person should do:

Quran 4:29-30
004.029
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!
004.030
YUSUFALI: If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.

Also from the hadiths it is clear that the prophet forbade the killing of innocent women and children:

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 257:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 19:
Book 019, Number 4320:
It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

So again islam teaches that killing of innocent women and children are forbidden by the teachings of the prophet.

And as any true Muslim would say consider the context.

And any non-Muslim  would say wake up and look around. Yours is obviously a misunderstanding. Look to the cradle of the religion if you want to understand it, not some removed western liberal.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

In THAT battle. It is a book that serves any amount of reprobate behavior, just as it supported the prophet Mohammed's reprobate behavior. Awarding him wives. Allowing him to steal his step-sons wife. Pimping out slaves for cash. etc.

WOW all of a sudden you know about context, holy shit, I didn’t think you even know the word exist, if alcohol was allowed in islam I would have to drink a gallon today to get over the fact that you actually know about something called context.  O wait, yeah you are a christian, context only works for you when it meets your purpose, and it doesn’t apply to everything you read.  Good thing I didn’t order the brandy yet.  As for the context, what I qouted was the full report as recorded in bukhari and muslim.  Also if you read the Muslim hadith, it says that when the propeht saw women and children killed he forbade it, that means after the war this was seen and he put a stop to it, that would be the context of that hadith, o wait you probably already forgot you know that there is something called context…. Do you need some ginko biloba?

Islam is not about what western pretenders wish it were. Islam has always been about the reprobate rape, pillage, plunder and imperialistic conquest of it's false prophet that inspired the same for the next 1400 years.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

It is about evil and hatred: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_xHQ3lX9GE&feature=PlayList&p=B35DFF5C160F006B&index=0

It  is an anti-religion religion that pits itself against God's people and is exactly OPPOSED to everything that is of God and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. Opposed to good. Opposed to peace. Opposed to God.

Islam is antichrist and Deedat's fake bible verses don't change that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9qHIbnrws

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

It is what it's fruit obviously demonstrates - of satan.

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[Peter]

No. It's about Mohammed's good/bad scale. That's why they murder innocent Jews to get their rivers of wine and resealable virgins in heaven.

Who are you fooling man, first of I want to make sure there is a defination here, zionist compared to jews, and the attacks on the zionist state is not all innocent, and you compare the innocent of the zionist state numbers to the innocent of the palenstinian state, a person like me is surprised that there are not more attacks on the zionist state.  You see on western media helicopters and tanks ravaging a town killing innocent children and women while they are sleeping and not even a single apology about it.

So your big story of kindness is about how the enslaved got a temporary reprieve from the enslaving jizya tax?

Jizya is paid by those that live in muslim land and are not taxed like muslims.  A muslim is taxed Zakaat a religious tax, they are taxed Sadaqah which can happen any time for any instance for the community, and here the non muslim only gets taxed once a year to collect money to run the society and it is not a tax that is high either, and you call this enslavement.  You are seriously kidding yourself.  Tell me which christian nation can we go to where there is absolutly no tax what so ever, if you cant find one then I think you know how stupid you sound to me.

Almost forgot to finish this post.
Taxes in civil societies are applied uniformly across their population.
Even though our 100 year old income tax is evil and Marxist, it still ignores race, creed, color and religion.

The only country that I know of that does not have tax, the the republic of Korea, and well we know they are not christian.

You are indeed the fruit of Islam.
But God gives us our right to be free. Our framers well understood this.
Only a warped mind could construe relief from a satanic tax, to somehow be "kind".

Again tell me what christian nation can we both move to and not have a tax to pay for living in that state?  If you cant find one, you should admit that the jizya is practical.

Again, your self-serving confusion regarding the secular world and Christianity.
God was removed from the U.S. government in 1947 through Everson and the "separation of church and state" that somehow was not noticed in the constitution over the prior 180 years.

Man you I know you cant claim that you misunderstood what I said because it was written down for you to read not something I said.  And I did say that muslims don’t blame christianity because of what some crazy christian does, so why do you go to that extreme for muslims?

They can't because it would be unchristian.
But Islam can be blamed for the thousands of attacks against innocent people since 9-11 BECAUSE of your religion and prophet.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Indeed. Presented here for everyone to see. "Freeing" what God considers to be free people to begin with.
Sex slaves. But then you get concubinage too!

What don’t you get about POWs being slaves after a war? 

That has been the way of Islam for 1400 years. What you are saying is that if someone doesn't bow down and submit to satan, then they are not innocent. That's why 2 million have been slain in the Sudan alone in this Islamic Second Jihad. That's your stinking context for the "unbelievers" in Satan:
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Do you know the difference between civil war and religious war? America went through the same thing every nation that has become great had a civil war of some form, do I agree what is happening with Sudan absolutely not, but that is what happens with nations where people want change, again civil war.
You keep qouting a beautiful verse, but you are worst than an ostridge because you stick your head in the sand when it comes to understanding what is is teaching, it tells us to strike fear on the battle field this is how you win wars.

What matters isn't about how I understand the verse. It is about how Islamic reprobates understand their marching orders:
In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and their heads left on the steps of a Church.  The note left behind reads:  "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."

Perfectly consistent with the verse that you claim I don't understand. These guys understood it all too well.

Islam is not about what you wish it were. It is about what it IS.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

If your enemy is afraid of you even coming close they will retreat, that is just common sense but as they say common sense is not really common today.

Exactly the role of WOMEN as property - not even slaves - are treated in Islam TODAY:
"Saudi society is based on Masters and slaves....To be more precise masters and maids... masters are the men and slaves are the women.... The ownership of a woman is passed from one man to another.... from the father or the brother, to another man, the husband."

Where in the quran or authentic teaching of the prophet Muhammad (Saw) does it state that a woman is to be passed from one man to another from father to brother to what ever?

To ignore the universal reality that this is the practice is absurd. Girls are even murdered by their fathers for marrying someone other than a Muslim that their father picked for them. Try " islamic honor killing". Honor killings videos.

That was a jewish custom, when a woman didn’t bear children, which by the way god killed 2 brothers for, so even if this was upheld by islam (which it is not), you would be saying that you are not in agreement with the god of the bible.

But smiting of unbelievers - that's a different subject altogether:
Koran (Sura 8:12) I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Satan's filth as shown in the quoted immediately above.

Do you see how stupid this argument is? If islam commands that you don’t kill innocent people, don’t you think it means innocent people of your enemies?

The innocents are in the dar el salaam. The rest are in the dar el harb.
"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts."
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

That's what Islam is about.

And if it means innoncent people of the enemies, I think that also includes the unbelievers,  like I said in the qoute you qouted, you are sounding like a broken record, because you have no real issues with islam, instead you bring up waste of time arguments. You asked about genocide, I just showed you that god promoted this in your bible.  No where in islam we are told to kill people to the last, we are to kill those on the battle field unless they ask for protection or they surrender.

'That army went through all places like a desolating storm.' sacking and capturing the city of Bordeaux, and then defeating the army of Duke Odo of Aquitaine at the Battle of the River Garonne — where the western chroniclers state, 'God alone knows the number of the slain'—[3] and Odo fled to Charles Martel, seeking help." 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

From your bible it talks about god commanding the killing of everyone in sight.  And you tell me that my quran is satan derived, I wonder what you really feel about your bible?

After all. There must not have been a God before Mohammed's God that was the opposite of the God of the Christians and Jews.

See the reason you think that the god of islam is different from the god of Jews and Christians, is because...

The one of Islam is OPPOSITE:

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=56.0

Surah 4.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0

John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the Son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Genesis 12:2  And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:  3  And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Hadith: “Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!”

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Sura 2:223 your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

... we don’t accept that god is a trinity, we believe only in what they refer in the christian religion as the Father.  And the jews believe the same.

The Jews believe in the promised SON OF GOD:
Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Psalms 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

And when you read the bible you find that the god of the jews (the father) is exactly who Allah of the quran claims to be.  Not only does god set up laws for you to follow, but gives mankind the responsibility to forbid the evil be it by punishiment of death or whipping or what ever else there is in the books.  Ofcourse I have to say this with caution, because I don’t believe that every discription of the bible fits god almightly.  Like for instance is there  a christian or Jew alive that believes that god cannot defeat who ever god wants his people to defeat?  I think the answer is no, but when you  open up your bible you find the following:

JUDGES 1:19 - The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.[/i]

Can you believe that god is weak against iron chariots?  Yet this is what your bible teaches, so you are very correct if you say that muslims don’t accept god as described in the bible, because there is quality that do not befit god. 

Indeed. So why not go blow yourself up among the Jews or kafir, in general in accordance with your god, and enjoy your rivers of wine, and resealable virgins? Oh yea, and the rest of what California, otherwise, has to offer of the Islamic heaven.

Why would I condem myself?  I just showed you in this text that god forbade killing of one's self as well as god forbade killing of innocent women and children.  As for the description of heaven, yes god gave mankind a small portion that we can understand what heaven has to offer as compared to hell.  Who would not love to be walking in a garden under which rivers flow,

Move to California. That's the closest you will get as long as you deny Jesus' shed blood.

as compared to hell where the least of punishment is a slipper on your feet that causes your brains to boil.  The reason these examples of what heaven has to offer is so that mankind will know what god is talking about.  Imagine that god said that when you get into heaven you will have grenorienwoejkyocipwenru and nweruiabetryseirn  but you have no idea what that is, what gets you to take your faith seriously?  This is why so many people are turning to satanism and athiesm...

Mohammedanism.

...and what ever other isms there are out there the majority of which are former christians.  Because they don’t see what they will receive when life is over with.

Just like Islam's interest is in satan's kingdoms here on earth, so too is the Islamic view of heaven about the flesh. But that is the opposite of what heaven is about. The heaven satan painted for you:

Islamic Aljana contains what Mohammed's Arabian desert most lacked, such as:

- Gushing water (Sura 3:15, 198, 4:57, 15:48).
- Clustered plantains (Sura 56:29)
- Fruits (Sura 56:20, 69:21-24).
- Shades with bunches of fruits (Sura 76:14).
- Enclosed gardens and grape vines (Sura 78:32).
- Fowl meat is one more carrot that Allah dangles before
   the noses of the Muslim faithful. (Sura 56:2).

Even CHICKENS in heaven!!!

But that's not what heaven is about:
Romans 14:17 For the Kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteous-
ness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.