Author Topic: The prophethood of Mohammed  (Read 8619 times)

Peter

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The prophethood of Mohammed
« on: August 11, 2009, 09:39:42 AM »
While there is no shortage of prophecy in the Quran, how is Mohammed's prophethood proven, since not a single prophecy has ever been fulfilled? Combined with the absence of a single person ever witnessing Gabriel or Allah's voice, when giving Mohammed one of the "revelations" that he claimed came from them, the evidence becomes even weaker.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=542.0
Let alone - as Muslims will agree - that Mohammed never performed a single miracle.
How can Muhammad's words be trusted? Particularly since he was and taught the exact opposite, of Jesus and ALL of the New Testament prophets and disciples?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Getting the testimonies of even the Old Testament prophets all goofed up and backwards.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=237.0

"The Holy Bible gives us a test to determine a true prophet from a false one:

    "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:20-22
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/false_prophecies.htm

"Muhammad allegedly claimed that the Antichrist (called the Dajjal) was to appear shortly after the Muslim conquest of Constantinople. The following traditions are taken from the Sunan Abu Dawud:

Book 37, Number 4281: Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:
    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The flourishing state of Jerusalem will be when Yathrib is in ruins, the ruined state of Yathrib will be when the great war comes, the outbreak of the great war will be at the conquest of Constantinople and the conquest of Constantinople when the Dajjal (Antichrist) comes forth. He (the Prophet) struck his thigh or his shoulder with his hand and said: This is as true as you are here or as you are sitting (meaning Mu'adh ibn Jabal).

Book 37, Number 4282: Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:
    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The greatest war, the conquest of Constantinople and the coming forth of the Dajjal (Antichrist) will take place within a period of seven months.

Book 37, Number 4283: Narrated Abdullah ibn Busr:
    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The time between the great war and the conquest of the city (Constantinople) will be six years, and the Dajjal (Antichrist) will come forth in the seventh.
______________________

    "Consequently, because this is so and the report on the authority of the Messenger of God is sound- namely, that he reported that what remained of the time of this world during his lifetime was half a day, or five hundred years, since five hundred years are half a day of the days, of which one is a thousand years- the conclusion is that the time of this world that had elapsed to the moment of the Prophet's statement corresponds to what we have transmitted on the authority of Abu Tha'labah al-Khushani from the Prophet, and is 6,500 years or approximately 6,500 years. God knows best!" (Tabari, pp. 182-183, bold emphasis ours)

Hence, according to these traditions Muhammad believed that not only was the world less than 7,000 years old but it was to end on the seventh day, or seven thousand years from the time it was created.

Accordingly, the world should have ended sometime between 1070-1132 AD, approximately 500 years after the birth and death of Muhammad. This is based on the fact that according to at-Tabari and others, the advent of Muhammad took place approximately 6,500 years from the time of creation. This is clearly a false prophecy."
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/false_prophecies.htm
____________________

Other areas of this forum detail several other, false prophets that also associate their false teachings with the Bible, that have followings of millions of people today, whose books also came along after God's record was closed in the first century. Not surprisingly they share the same record as Mohammed regarding fulfillment of their prophecies.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=137.0
Jim Jones and David Koresh shared the same record.

I have searched online for fulfilled prophecy in the Quran but have yet to find any. I don't mean the kind of stuff like "Mohammed had a vision of a bright light in the sky and by that it's only logical that it was a prophesy of the space shuttle".

The purpose of this thread is to collect and discuss evidence of the prophethood of Mohammed as proven through fulfilled prophecy.

The kind of prophecy the prophets of the bible prophesied. Like this prophecy delivered by Jesus, for example:

Matthew 24:1 (KJV) And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm

In stunning fulfillment, the indisputable historical record shows that less than 40 years after Jesus delivered that prophesy to his disciples, the Romans tore the temple down, and not a single stone was left upon another, EXACTLY as Jesus prophesied.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=70+ad+romans+destroyed+temple+%22every+stone%22&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Another example is Daniel's kingdom "beasts" that were to unfold in perfect succession, in stunning fulfillment, over the hundreds of years in the prophet's future.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=11.0

Let alone all the Old Testament prophecy of Jesus, the Messiah, including the account of His crucifixion prophesied many hundreds of years in advance:

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Fulfilled precisely:

Mat 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

So what did Mohammed prophesy that was fulfilled?
Is there ANY proof whatsoever of Mohammed's prophethood?

Could our Muslim friends Please create a user ID and show us some fulfilled prophecy in the Quran?


Peter

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2009, 07:28:51 AM »
(Disappeared then restored from database)

I found an entertaining site regarding prophecy in the Quran. I think this guy is actually serious about his site.
http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/prophecies.html
Here are some of the more entertaining highlights:


FINGER PRINTS

Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing (41:21)

The finger prints system at borders, criminal investigation cells and immigration centres prove the fulfillment of this Quranic prophecy.

Even crediting the wildly preposterous leap from "skins" to modern fingerprinting techniques would this really constitute prophecy considering: "In ancient Babylon, fingerprints were used on clay tablets for business transactions. In ancient China, thumb prints were found on clay seals." http://onin.com/fp/fphistory.html
In other words, if someone tried to impersonate a seal, or conduct fraudulent business with the wrong print, over a thousand years before Mohammed was born, their print would have borne witness against them.


POLLUTION

"Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought" (30:42)

One of the interpretations of the above verse of the Holy Quran is the environmental pollution, caused by human being. And that is spread both in land and sea due to our own inventions, i.e., fumes from chimneys of factories, chemical and nuclear waste, huge traffic in the cities, noise and creation of ozone hole are manifest testimonies of the fulfillment of this prophecy.


Land and sea warfare were around from long before Mohammed.
Most importantly this "prophecy" is in the past tense. "Corruption has spread..." making it a historical account, not a prophecy.


GENETIC ENGINEERING

"They will alter Allah's creation." (4:120)

The holy Quran has prophesied the plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning in this short and concise sentence.

"...plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning..."
Then again moving a little dirt with a shovel also fulfills this prophecy. The leaps made here are really a good representation of all of the claims of Mohammed's "fulfilled prophecy".


ROADS IN MOUNTAINS

"And when the mountains are made to move." (81:4)

Centuries before the invention of dynamite, the holy Quran prophesied the blowing up and moving of the mountains.

Does dynamite really move mountains or do they remain in the very same place where they began? Are mountains "blown up" Doesn't dynamite simply alter, or change the face of a mountain, the same way a shovel would, only on a larger scale? Mohammed prophesied dynamite?

Why not say Mohammed prophesied the Gem of Egypt, the giant coal strip mining machine that gobbled up big pieces of hills within hours? "Hmmmm.... yeaaaaa .... like dat, like dat.... the Gem of Egypt ..... yea like dat! Mohammed prophesied the Gem of Egypt! Of course!!!!"


NEW TRANSPORT SYSTEMS

"And when the she-camels, ten months pregnant are abandoned." (81:5)

"And He has created horses and mules and asses that you may ride them, and as a source of beauty. And He will create what you do not yet know." (16:9)

As we know people, specially those living in deserts, have now abandoned camels and other animals for travelling. But this prophecy of invention and emergence of new transport systems is on-going as we witness new and faster modes of transportation emerging all the time.

Does the verse even say camels are abandoned? No. It says "...she-camels, ten months pregnant are abandoned."
Did the author never hear of the Arabian horse? Wasn't even Mohammed supposed to have ridden through the sky on such a beast in his fanciful night flight? How is the riding of horses supposed to be prophecy? What animals has God created since?


ZOO

"And when the wild beasts are gathered together." (81:6)

Nobody could ever imagine that one day wild beasts shall be captured, tamed and put together in closed and open parks. The establishment of zoo have fulfilled this prophecy.


"Nobody could ever imagine that one day wild beasts shall be captured, tamed..."? I have news for the author. Wild beasts of all sorts were captured and tamed long before Mohammed was born."... and put together in closed and open parks. The establishment of zoo have fulfilled this prophecy"

Perhaps the author has never been to the zoo. The beasts in the zoo are not put together, but rather separated from each other by their own cages. Specifically unlike in the wild where they indeed are together and can eat each other.

Wild beasts are gathered together all over the Serengeti. Wild beasts tend to gather closer together in inclement weather. Dogs run in packs. Wildebeest are gathered together for their annual migration.
Herding is a natural instinct, but Mohammed prophesied zoos!


MODERN COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS

"And when various people are brought together." (81:8)

Fast transport systems, telephone, satellite systems and internet have brought so close to each other proving the truthfulness of the holy Quran.


One of the most preposterous leaps yet. Tribal and inter-clan meetings have taken place throughout the history of mankind. This one speaks for itself. Also smacks of author's exposure to telephone advertising.


WOMEN’S RIGHTS

"And when the female-infant buried alive is questioned about – For what crime was she killed." (81-9,10)

Modern-day women rights and liberation associations may be brain-child of freedom-loving and egalitarian humanist / feminist people but foretold by Quran centuries ago.


Where are female infants "buried alive" anywhere in the world? What would that have to do with women;s rights?
We do, however, have an example of an adult Muslim female who was buried alive in an "honor" killing.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1040.0


BOOKS PUBLISHED AND SPREAD

"And when books are spread abroad." (81:11)

The invention of printing press and publication houses and consequently spread of books every where is one of the marvellous prophecies of the Quran made in the dark ages of ignorance and illiteracy.


Copying and then carrying a book abroad fulfilled this prophecy long before Mohammed's day. Consider the stunning Library of Alexandria in ancient Greece. Bringing copies of books for the library was treated as a medium of exchange - of imported wealth - from visiting travelers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

In fact, the Quran has rekindled the dark ages, with over 2 million slain at the hands of Islam in the Sudan alone, and over 13,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world just since 9-11: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm


EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL LIFE

"And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever He pleases." (42:30)

Having discourse with aliens is still an unrealized dream, but science is progressing in that direction. The presence of extra-terrestrial life has been proved by scientists. The next step is to see them and making a link with them. No religious scripture, except Quran, even hints about this great scientific discovery.

"Having discourse with aliens is still an unrealized dream, but science is progressing in that direction."
Is it time for a big guffaw yet? Science is progressing in the direction of having discourse with aliens? What does it have to do with science? Don't you have to have the aliens first? Simple belief in ETs makes one a prophet? Or a kook?
"No religious scripture, except Quran, even hints about this great scientific discovery." What "discovery"? Who has discovered ETs? Are we to imagine that Mohammed was alone in nurturing this fantasy? The first in history to imagine beings from space? Isn't it the very kind of thing that could be suggested, and then the child-like mind of a desert dwelling illiterate might seize on, to entertain itself with?


AIR TRAFFIC SYSTEM

"And by the heaven full of tracks" (51:8)

While prophesying about modern transport systems, Quran also foretold the air-traffic system which is an essential part of aviation. A person living in desert 1400 years ago cannot talk about such advance technologies unless revealed to him by God Almighty.

Try tracks of a meteorite shower or comets. But look at the leap! Mohammed prophesied the air-traffic system!
I think perhaps Mohammed was prophesying the tracks of wild animals across the sky..... yea like dat!

There is one prophecy the author mentioned that is indeed a stunning fulfilled prophecy:


AIDS

"It never happens that permissiveness overwhelms a people to the extent that they display their acts of sex shamelessly and they are not uniquely punished by God. Among them, invariably, pestilence is made to spread and such other diseases, the like of which have never been witnessed by their forefathers." (Ibn-e-Majah, Kitab-ul-Fitan)* see footnote


Venereal disease is a new thing? It was likely well known around Mohammed and his men with all the wives and concubines and captured sex slaves from foreign places like Africa, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI
That it would become observably more prevalent and varied among them would not be a surprise.
Particularly with Mohammed's instruction regarding the prostituting your sex slaves.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0


ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL

"And after him We said to the Children of Israel, Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people." (17:105)

Creation of Israel and gathering of Sephardic, Ashkenazi and the Jews of many other different races in Israel proves the authenticity of this prophecy and hence Quran.


Finally an actual prophecy with literal fulfillment of it! But was this a prophecy Mohammed's or simply more of his plagiarism? Let's start with Mohammed's x-"christian" friend Jabr whom the locals nicknamed "holy spirit" because Mohammed so often got a "revelation" right after meeting with Jabr. Their relationship even necessitated a special "revelation" to disclaim "inspiration" from Jabr, for damage control.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

And Mohammed's having access to his first wife's Christian sister, all of the Jews and Christians in his travels in business, or as a child with his uncle, or later on his Jewish secretary that was fluent in 3 languages, and Christian and x-Christian wives, concubine slaves, and Jewish wife (or concubine as the record is unclear of her ever having consented to marriage with Mohammed, whom also eventually poisoned him). Would it be a surprise then that Mohammed was exposed to just one of the prophesies of the restoration of the Jews to their land prophesied in the Word of God?

Sorry my Muslim friends. The restoration of the Jews to their land was prophesied a couple thousand years before Mohammed spoke of it. Page with verse links:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/parable_of_the_fig_tree.htm#jewish_restoration
"Old Testament verses that regard the restoration of the Jews to their land:

Leviticus 26:44-45 Here scripture tells us the restoration of Israel is unconditional.
Isaiah 11:11 Here again scripture talks about a second restoration of the Jews. What would be the point of this if they were not part of the elect.
Isaiah 26;20-27:1 Talks of hiding the children of Israel followed by Satan's complete judgment. There again why hide them if not to save the elect.
Isaiah 27:12-13 talks about the final regathering of Israel.
Jeremiah:30:4-8 talks about the time of Jacobs troubles and the future restoration.
Jeremiah 30:18-24 Tells us that a restoration for the tents of Jacob will take place in the latter days, I don't believe that this is the first restoration of 536 B.C.
Jeremiah 31:35-37 Talks about the permanent nation of Israel.
Jeremiah 33:24-26 Talks about the unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants.
Ezekiel 16:60-63 Here again it's talking about an unconditional everlasting covenant with the Jews.
Ezekiel 37:1-28 Again it's talking about the unconditional future restoration of Israel followed closely by Armageddon in Ezekiel: 38-38.
Hosea 11:9-10 It talks about the future restoration of Israel from the West.
Joel 3:1-3 Predicts the restoration of Juda followed by Armageddon.
Amos 9:11 -15 Talks about an Israel restored to the land.
Zechariah 8:7-8 Speaks of a post-exilic unconditional restoration of the Jews to Jerusalem and the land.
Zechariah 10 & 12 Here again are more prophecies of the future restoration of the Jews.
Zechariah 14 Talks of Armageddon with the Jews in Jerusalem.

Now let's looks at what the New Testament has to say on this subject.

Luke 21:24 Speaks of a dispersion, the time of the Gentiles, and the restoration that follows.
Romans 11:11 Tells us that the Jews have not fallen.
Romans 11:17 Tells us that only some of the branches were broken off.
Romans 11:17 Tells us that the church (I believe to be the Christians) was grafted in among the Jews(olive tree).
Romans 11:28 Tells us that Gospel age Jews are still elect.
Romans 11:29 Tells us that Gods calling of the Jews is irrevocable (irrevocable means cannot be undone).
Revelation 7:4-9 Speaks of the 12 tribes of Israel in the Christian era.
Revelation 12:1-6 Again it speaks of Israel in the Christian era.
Revelation 15:3 Is a passage primarily about the Christian era, there are two songs, one for the Jews, and one for the Gentile church."

Besides those copy and pasted from another author's site is the stunning fulfillment of Daniel predicting the exact years of 1948 and 1967 - right to the year - and he did it 2500 years in advance:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=77.0

Sorry my Muslim friends. You follow a "prophet" from whom not a single prophecy has ever been fulfilled.
A prophet whom not a single soul in history EVER WITNESSED the voice of Gabriel or Allah speak a word to.
You follow a false prohpet that was, and taught, the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ and all of the New Testament prophets and disciples.
The perfect manifestation of the spirit of antichrist as the most important fundamental of his STAND-ALONE 7th century religion.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=252.0

Rejecting even the record of the Old Testament prophets.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0

Perhaps the author of the website cited here didn't get Mohammed's fulfilled prophesy. If you know of any actually fulfilled prophecy that can prove Mohammed, like those in the original post prove the Word of God, please share them with us.
Otherwise you cannot deny that you REJECT ALL of the bible's messengers to follow an empty shell, whose own personal abhorrent behavior is well detailed, in your own books.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0
   

resistingrexmundi

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2009, 08:09:51 AM »
You know bro I found that site a while back when I myself tried to find fulfilled prophecy in the Quran. Me and my wife spent a while in wide-eyed horror and amusement at the blatant and willing ignorance of this person. He is a shining example of seeing what you want to see. I am glad you responded to these ridiculous claims.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2010, 11:13:44 AM »
The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031

Prophecies from the Qur’an

The triumph of the Byzantines over the Persians

1. The Byzantine and Persian Empires were the super-powers of the time. It was during the years when the few believers were severely persecuted in Makka that the Persians utterly defeated the Byzantines. They had sweeping victories, and conquered Aleppo, Antioch, and the chief Syrian provinces, including Damascus. Jerusalem fell to their arms in 614-615. The Christians were massacred and their churches burnt. The Persian flood of conquest went on to Egypt, and reached as far as Tripoli in North Africa. Another Persian army ravaged Asia Minor and reached right up to the gates of Constantinople. The Makkan pagans rejoiced greatly, and redoubled their taunts and persecution against the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, whose Message was a renewal of the Message of Jesus preached in Palestine. The following Qur’anic verses, which were revealed just at that time, gave certain tidings of a very near victory of the Romans over the Perisans:

The Romans have been defeated in a land close by, but they, after their defeat, will be victorious, within nine years. God’s is the command in the former case and in the latter, and on that day believers will rejoice, with the help of God. He helps to victory whom He wills. He is the All-Mighty, the All-Compassionate. (al-Rum, 30.1-5)

First of all this is ridiculous. Given the close proximity of fulfillment to prophecy such "predictions" are easy to make. Biblical prophecies give exact time frames and are given far enough in advance to eliminate the possiblility of informed guess work. Also the verse above is rendered incorrectly. It actually reads,

S. 30:2-4:

"The Roman Empire has been defeated - in a land close by: But they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious - within a few years."

The deviation is likely due to the hadith where Muhammad corrected Abu Bakr on how long the event would be to its' fulfillment.

"This passage refers to the defeat of the Byzantines in Syria by the Persians under Khusran Parvis. (A.D. 615 - 6 years before the Hegira). However, the defeat of the Persians should take place soon 'in a small number of years'. In the light of this prediction, Abu-Bakr undertook a bet with Ubai-ibn-Khalaf that this prediction would be fulfilled within three years, but he was corrected by Mohammed who stated that the 'small number' is between three and nine years (Al-Baizawi).

Interestingly enough Muhammad still wasn't sure when this was to happen and gave himself what he must have thought to be plenty of wiggle room.



No one at that time could make such a prediction. But the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, conveyed these Divine Revelations to his followers. They confirmed him without hesitation and Abu Bakr bet the Makkan polytheists that the Romans would be victorious in nine years. Heraclius, the Roman Emperor attacked the Persians initially by sea in 622 (the year of the Hijra), and after decisive battles and three successive campaigns, put them to rout in a few years. His victories happened at the same time as the believers won the victory of Badr over the Makkan polytheists. Thus the verses above contained two predictions, both of which came true in nine years.

What is even more damning in this prophecy is the fact that the victory did NOT come within nine years on 622 but rather 628.

The Persians defeated the Byzantines and captured Jerusalem at about A.D. 614 or 615. The Byzantine counter-offensive did not begin until A.D. 622 and the victory was not complete until A.D. 628, making it a period between thirteen to fourteen years, not "a few years" alluded to in the Quran.

And to further support this...

Renowned historian and Muslim commentator, al-Tabari, places the Roman victory in 628 A.D. (6 A.H.), right after the signing of Hudaiybiya:

According to Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Muhammad b. Ishaq- Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri- 'Ubaydallah b. 'Abdullah b. 'Utbah b. Mas'ud- 'Abdullah b. 'Abbas- Abu Sufyan b. Harb, who said: We were merchant folk. The warfare between us and the Messenger of God had prevented us from journeying, so that our wealth became depleted. After the truce between us and the Messenger of God, we feared that we might not encounter security. I set out for Syria with a group of merchants of Quraysh. Our specific destination was Gaza, and we arrived at the time of Heraclius' VICTORY over the Persians who were in his land - he expelled them and regained from them his Great Cross, which they had carried off. Having accomplished this against them and having received word that his cross had been rescued from them (he was staying at Hims), he set out from there on foot in thanksgiving to God for restoring it to him, to pray in Jerusalem. Carpets were spread out for him, and fragrant herbs were strewn on them. When he reached Jerusalem and performed his worship - with him were his military commanders and the nobles of the Romans - he arose troubled one morning, turning his gaze to the sky ... (The History of Al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, translated by Michael Fishbein [State University of New York Press, Albany 1997], Volume VIII, pp. 100-101; bold and capital emphasis ours)

Then comes the particularly sordid part of the fact that when this verse was written there were no vowel points in the verse.

"The original Quranic text had no vowel marks. Thus, the Arabic word Sayaghlibuna, "they shall defeat," could easily have been rendered, with the change of two vowels, Sayughlabuna, "they (i.e. Romans) shall be defeated." Since vowel points were not added until some time after this event, it could have been quite possible for a scribe to deliberately tamper with the text, forcing it to become a prophetic statement.
This fact is solidified by Muslim commentator al-Baidawi. C.G. Pfander mentions Baidawi's comments on the variant readings surrounding this passage:

"But Al Baizawi shatters the whole argument of the Muslims by informing us of certain varied readings in these verses of Suratu'r Rum. He tells us that some read (Arabic text appears here) instead of the usual (Arabic text appears here) and (Arabic text appears here) instead of (Arabic text appears here). The rendering will then be: 'The Byzantines have conquered in the nearest part of the land, and they shall be defeated in a small number of years'. If this be the correct reading, the whole story about Abu Bakr's bet with Ubai must be a fable, since Ubai was dead long before the Muslims began to defeat the Byzantines, and even long before the victories which Heraclius won over the Persians. This shows how unreliable such Traditions are. The explanation which Al Baizawi gives is, that the Byzantines became conquerors of 'the well-watered land of Syria' (Arabic text appears here) and that the passage predicted that the Muslims would soon overcome them. If this is the meaning, the Tradition which records the 'descent' of the verses about six years before the Hijrah must be wrong, and the passage must belong to A.H. 6 at earliest. It is clear that, as the vowel points were not used when the Qur-an was first written down in Cufic letters, no one can be certain which of the two readings is right. We have seen that there is so much uncertainty about (1) the date at which the verses were 'sent down', (2) the correct reading, and (3) the meaning, that it is quite impossible to show that the passage contains a prophecy which was fulfilled. Hence, it cannot be considered to be a proof of Muhammad's prophetic office." (C. G. Pfander, Mizan-ul-Haqq - The Balance of Truth, revised and enlarged by W. St. Clair Tisdall [Light of Life P.O. Box 18, A-9503, Villach Austria], 279-280)"

Either way you slice it this is a false prophecy.



The Qur’an gave the news of the conquest of Makka two years before

2. It was only six years after the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, had emigrated to Madina that he left for Makka for a minor pilgrimage. However, the Makkans stopped him at Hudaybiya and a peaceful treaty was concluded after negotiations. Some articles of the Treaty were objected to by the believers but the Qur’anic verses which were revealed following the conclusion of the Treaty described it as a manifest victory and gave the believers the decisive glad tiding, which is as follows:

In truth, God fulfilled the vision of His Messenger: You will surely enter the Sacred Mosque, if God wills, in full security; you will have your heads shaved, your hair shortened, and you will have nothing to fear. He knew what you knew not, and He granted, besides this, a near victory. He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion. God is enough for a witness. (al-Fath, 48.27–8)

One year later the Muslims performed the minor pilgrimage and the year after they conquered Makka. Also, Islam has been prevalent over all other religions for centuries and, if God wills, it will have a world-wide superiority in a near future.

This is again ridiculous as the verse in question was given to appease the Muslims and tell them in UNCERTAIN terms, hence the "if Allah wills", that they would be allowed to perform the tawaf. They were on their way to do that when stopped by the Mekkan envoy and were not allowed to perform the tawaf. The deal that Muhammad brokered involved returning muslim converts to the Mekkan polytheists and revising Muhammad's title to "son of Abdullah" from "apostle of Allah". Now I ask you what prophet in the Bible ever compromised truth for convenience. In fact that is one of the hallmarks of a true prophet. No prophet from Moses to Jesus ever renounced, for any reason, his apostleship or return converts to satisfy pagans. Here is the hadith entry for this event.

Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50, Number 891:

"When Suhail bin Amr came, the Prophet said, ‘Now the matter has become easy.' Suhail said to the Prophet 'Please conclude a peace treaty with us.' So, the Prophet called the clerk and said to him, 'Write: By the Name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful." Suhail said, 'As for "Beneficent," by Allah, I do not know what it means. So write: By Your Name O Allah, as you used to write previously.' The Muslims said, 'By Allah, we will not write except: By the Name of Allah, the most Beneficent, the most Merciful.' The Prophet said, 'Write: By Your Name O Allah.' Then he dictated, 'This is the peace treaty which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle has concluded.' Suhail said, 'By Allah, if we knew that you are Allah's Apostle we would not prevent you from visiting the Kaba, and would not fight with you. So, write: 'Muhammad bin Abdullah.' The Prophet said, 'By Allah! I am Apostle of Allah even if you people do not believe me. Write: Muhammad bin Abdullah.' (Az-Zuhri said, 'The Prophet accepted all those things, as he had already said that he would accept everything they would demand if it respects the ordinance of Allah, (i.e. by letting him and his companions perform 'Umra.)') The Prophet said to Suhail, 'On the condition that you allow us to visit the House (i.e. Ka'ba) so that we may perform Tawaf around it.' Suhail said, 'By Allah, we will not (allow you this year) so as not to give chance to the Arabs to say that we have yielded to you, but we will allow you next year.' SO, THE PROPHET GOT THAT WRITTEN.

Notice too that the pagans in this hadith also invoke the name of Allah. Also notice that they insisted that they would have been fine with Muhammad claiming apostleship IF he had been able to prove it. Also note that Muhammad secured the muslim's entry into Mekka through a peace treaty. This is what is called a self-fulfilling prophecy and holds absoultely no weight as a proof.


The Qur’an gave the news that the dead body of Pharaoh would one day be discovered

3. In ancient Egypt, Pharaoh used to torture the Children of Israel. God sent Moses to him with the mission of inviting him to believe in One God and allow the Israelites to leave Egypt with Moses. Pharaoh refused and the struggle between them continued for a long time. However, one night Moses succeeded in marching towards the frontier with his people but Pharaoh, becoming aware of his attempt, set out to follow him. When Moses reached the Red Sea, he touched it with his staff, and a furrow opened across the sea. Pharaoh attempted to follow him, but was engulfed with his legions. While narrating this event, The Qur’an makes a very interesting prediction:

Today We shall preserve your body that you may be a sign to those after you: although most men give no heed to Our signs. (Yunus, 10.92)

The dead body of Pharaoh was later found floating on the Western shores of the Sinai peninsula. The native residents can still show you to this land, which is now known as Jabal Firawn (Hill of Pharaoh). A few miles from this hill is a hot spring called Hammam Firawn (the Bath of Pharaoh).

First of all the koran gives at least two different endings to the story of the Pharoah. And the verse that you erroneously ascribe to his body being perserved is actually a verse stating that Allah would save his life due to his conversion and let him live as a sign to other pagans.

Here it says Pharoah was saved because he converted.

"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!  This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).

Here it says Pharoah was drowned with the rest of his forces.

Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!"  So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

Secondly if what you suggest above is true, that there is actually a town that is named after the finding of the body, need I remind you that would mean it was an event that happened BEFORE Muhammad showed up on the scene, and therefore is NOT a prophecy?


Promise of Victory

4.The Qur'an says:"Allah has promised to those of you who believe, and do good deeds, that He will surely grant them in the land inheritance of power as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion which He has chosen for them. And that He will change their state after fear to one of security and peace. They will worship Me alone and not associate aught with Me." (24:55) And also: "Say to those who deny faith, soon you will be vanquished." (3:12) and "When comes the help of Allah and Victory, and you see the people enter Allah's religion in multitudes . . ." (110:1-2)

The first verse was revealed at a time of the Muslim's weakness, promising the righteous victory, and the second predicting the peoples entering into Islam in crowds, and so it came to pass, after the capture of Mecca, and in the time of the Caliphs Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman and 'Ali, who were from the most pious companions of the Prophet, were established by Allah in the land, defeating the Persian and Roman empires, so that Islam was established from Spain to parts of China in a mere twenty years. This, in part, fulfills another prophecy of the Qur'an: "It is He who has sent the Messenger with guidance, and the religion of truth, to make it triumphant over all religions." (9:32) Christianity, Judaism, paganism have never regained any lasting dominance, physically and intellectually since the coming of Islam. The secular philosophies of communism and capitalism are in the process of being dealt death blows. At the present rate of growth Islam will over take Christianity by 2025 in terms of numbers. See also Qur'an 48:18-21 and 1:13, which promise victory.

First of all this isn't a prophecy. This was Muhammad showing confidence that his plan of pillage, murder, rape, extortion, and all around dishonesty had worked to further his goals and that the this formula would continue to be effective. Also if 3:12 were true then why does the west still deny your faith. It has been 1400 years and while the apostasy of the Church has occured, JUST AS JESUS SAID IT WOULD, Islam is far from conquering the world. I would also add the Hitler promised victory over his enemies all throughout WW2 using the same tactics as Muhammad. And I am sure that had he dressed it up as a religion as Muhammad did he would have been even more successful.


Tidings of the Last Day

5. A considerable part of the Qur’an is about the events of the Last Day. The Qur’an describes how the world will be destroyed and re-built again and how the dead will be raised, assembled in the Place of Mustering, and, after being judged, will go to either Paradise or Hell. The Qur’an also gives a vivid description of Paradise and Hell and the life in them.

Such traditions exist in many religions, Judaism and Christianity being prime among them. Borrowed prophecies does not a prophet make.

Before I go any further you were asked to show from the koran any prophecies, which you failed to do, NOT the hadith. Since they were written far after the life of Muhammad.


Examples of the Prophet’s predictions which exist in books of Tradition (hadeeths)

1 ‘Umar reports in a narration recorded in Sahih al-Muslim:

‘Before the Battle of Badr started, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, walked around the battlefield and pointed to some locations, saying, Abu Jahl will be killed here, ‘Utba here, Shayba here, Walid here, and so on. By God, we found, after the battle, the dead bodies of all those men in the exact places that God’s Messenger had pointed out.’

Irrelevant as these things were recorded LOOOOOONNG after Muhammad's life and were likely made up since they do NOT exist in the koran.


While in Makka under great tortures, the Prophet predicted the future victories of Islam

2. Bukhari and Abu Dawud quote Habbab ibn Arat, who said:

Once, during the days of trouble and torture in Makka, I went to God’s Messenger, who was sitting in the shade of the Ka‘ba. I was still a slave in the hands of the Makkans then. They inflicted on me severe tortures. Unable to endure those tortures any more, I requested God’s Messenger to pray to God for help and salvation. But he turned towards me and said:

By God, previous communities had to endure more pitiless tortures. Some of them were made to lie in ditches and cut in two with saws but this did not make them forsake their faith. They were skinned alive but they never became weak against the enemy. Surely God will perfect this religion, but you display undue haste. A day will come when a woman will travel alone by herself from San’a to Hadramawt fearing nothing but wild beasts. However, you show impatience.

The funny thing is this shows Muhammad's god's ineptitude. Had Muhammad truly been in contact with the divine he could have at least made the request on behalf of this man but could not and so did not. Muhammad's god was just as powerless then as he is now.


Habbab concluded:

By God, what God’s Messenger predicted that day, have all come true. I have personally witnessed it all.

As stated above none of this has any bearing on prophecy in the koran as these hadith were all written a long time after the koran. And it isn't a prophecy if you have to actively achieve the goal. That is called self fulfilling prophecy. Also I would like to point out that according to the hadith the "torture" that Muhammad and his comrades underwent cannot truly be classified as torture given the testimony of the hadith themselves and the fact these individuals were given free reign to travel as they wished and were asked many times to simply not be rude in the conduct of their religion. Since when does a torturer make requests of the ones being tortured?


The Messenger predicted ‘Ammar’s martyrdom in a civil war

3. Bukhari, Muslim and Ahmad ibn Hanbal record:

During the construction of the Prophet’s Mosque in Madina, God’s Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, told ‘Ammar:

What a pity O ‘Ammar, a rebellious group will kill you.

‘Ammar was killed in the Battle of Siffin by the supporters of Mu‘awiya, who rebelled against Caliph ‘Ali.

This so-called prophecy is even weaker than the others. It is so vague that so long as someone that Ammar considered an enemy killed him it would be considered fulfilled. Since muslims of this time, just as many today, were constantly engaged in war it isn't that surprising that he would have died at the hands of an enemy.


The Prophet foretold that Fatima would join him first of all after his death

4. Before his death, the Messenger called his daughter Fatima to his bedside and informed her that she would be the first among his family to join him after his death. Fatima joined her father, the pride of mankind, six months later.

Again all of these were written much later than the events and so are irrelevant as a means of proving prophecy. Not to mention that Muhammad's followers were so steadfast in their obedience to him they would have willingly obliged to fulfill this prophecy if he had foretold of it's occurence.


The Prophet predicted the Mongol invasion

5. The Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, predicted the Mongol invasion, saying:

The Hour will not come before you fight against a people with red faces, small, slant eyes and flat noses. They wear hairy leather boots.

Given that these hadiths were written once the mongols had already become a threat this is merely reflecting current events into the past.


The Messenger predicted the caliphate of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar

6. As related by Hakim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Hanbal and Ibn Maja, by repeatedly declaring, You should, after my death, follow the way of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, meant that Abu Bakr and ‘Umar would succeed him as caliphs. He also predicted that Abu Bakr’s reign would be short, whereas ‘Umar would remain longer to be able to make many conquests.

This hadith contains no indication of the length of any of the caliph's and this was likely cobbled up as a support against the Sunni claim that these men should have succeeded him as it was written during the caliphate of one of the "rightly guided caliphs".


The Prophet predicted the conquest of many important cities

7. According to authentic narrations, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, gave his community the glad tidings that they would conquer Damascus, Jerusalem, Iraq, Persia, Istanbul (Constantinople) and Cyprus, and that the religion of Islam would reach as far as the remotest corners of the world in the east and west.

Would you care to actually cite these hadith. Not that it matters as they were written after the fact. And plans for conquering are not prophecies. Unless the plans are successful and then they become "prophecy". Furthermore does it not strike you as odd that all of these hadith were written after the fact?


The Prophet predicted the forms of government after him

8. The Prophet declared:

This affair began with Prophethood and as a mercy; then it will be mercy and Caliphate; afterwards it will change into a cruel monarchy, and finally into an iniquity and tyranny. He also prophesied: Surely, the Caliphate after me will last thirty years; afterwards it will a cruel monarchy.

Whatever the noble Prophet predicted came true.

But have you not been remarking on how those same caliphates were prophesied by Muhammad? That those were to be his successors? And Islam had already instituted a cruel monarchy with Muhammad as its' head.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 11:18:22 AM by Peter »
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2010, 11:15:21 AM »
The Prophet predicted the caliphate and martyrdom of ‘Uthman

9. According to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:

‘Uthman will be killed while reading the Qur’an. God will dress him in a shirt but they will desire to remove it from him.

By this saying, he meant that ‘Uthman would become Caliph but his deposition would be sought, and finally he would be martyred while reading the Qur’an. This happened exactly as he predicted.

Same as points cited above. Written after the fact. And Uthman died reading his version of the koran instead of the others that had been made by men Muhammad considered more adept at remembering the koran. Just thought I would throw that fun fact in there for you.


The Prophet foretold the future victories of Sa‘d

10. As narrated in a authentic Tradition, the noble Prophet of God, upon him be peace and blessings, said to Sa‘d ibn Abi Waqqas when the latter was gravely ill:

It is hoped that you will be spared so that some people may benefit through you and some others be harmed through you.

By this, he suggested that Sa‘d would be a great commander and make many conquests, and while many peoples would benefit from him by converting to Islam, many others would be harmed through him as a result of the collapse of their states.

Sa‘d, just as predicted by the holy Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, took the command of the Muslim armies and destroyed the Persian Sassanid Empire, bringing many peoples within the guidance of Islam.

The Prophet predicted the conquest of Cyprus

11. Once, when the Prophet woke up in the house of Umm Haram, the aunt of Anas ibn Malik, who served the Messenger for ten years in Madina, he smilingly said:

I dreamt that my community would be waging war in the sea sitting on thrones like kings.

Umm Haram asked: ‘Pray that I too may be with them’. He said firmly: You shall be.

All this came true forty years later when Umm Haram accompanied her husband ‘Ubada ibn Samit, on the conquest of Cyprus. She died there, and her tomb has since been a visited place.

The Prophet predicted the appearance of Mukhtar and Hajjaj

12. According to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:

From the tribe of Thaqif will appear a liar who claims Prophethood and a blood-thirsty tyrant.

By this, he gave tidings of the notorious Mukhtar, who claimed Prophethood, and the criminal Hajjaj, who killed tens of thousands of people.

The Prophet predicted the conquest of Istanbul

13. Again, according to an authentic narration, the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, declared:

Surely, Constantinople (Istanbul) will be conquered (by my community); how blessed the commander who will conquer it, and how blessed his army.

He thus foretold the conquest of Istanbul by Muslims, and indicated the high spiritual rank of Sultan Mehmed, the Conqueror, and the virtuousness of his army. What he foretold took place centuries later.

I will expedite the matter by citing the same points as above. These things were written AFTER they had already occured. If Muhammad had actually made any of these predictions then he certainly would have given them as proof of prophethood when the Mekkans asked him. He did not and so they make NO appearance in the koran. Furthermore if you review them you can see how the Caliph at the time used these later penned traditions to authorize his military conquests. This is nothing more than political propaganda. The USSR and Nazi Germany used similiar tactics to help instill support in their populations.


The Prophet mentioned that there would be signs forewarning the approach of the last day.

Many of which he stole from his dealings with Jews and Christians.

a. The barefooted bedouins competing in building tall buildings. Today we find in the Arabian Peninsula, the Arabs who used to be impoverished herders of camels and sheep, are competing in building the tallest tower blocks. Two of the latest examples are Kingdom Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia  and Al Faisaliah Center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia (see http://skyscraperpage.com/new/kingdomcenter.htm, http://skyscraperpage.com/new/alfaisaliahcenter.htm)

Tall buildings were already apart of the growing populations of the world and news of glorious ones carried far and wide. This is not a prediction but rather an observation.

b. The Mosques would be like palaces. This is clearly the case, even though the Prophet ordered simplicity in the houses of Allah, the mosques have become more and more fantastic, with golden domes, marbled floors, lavish carpets and chandeliers. (see http://home.mweb.co.za/ka/kayef/images/masjinabi.jpg)

Again these are self fulfilling prophecies. It is easy to make these simplistic "predictions" come true.

c. Disappearance of trustworthiness, so much so that one would only be able to say: "I know a trustworthy person in such-and-such town."

Well with Islam making it impossible to trust in the areas it is influential this isn't surprising. But an increase in dishonesty is foretold in the Bible. So Muhammad was beat to this one by some six hundred years.

2Ti 4:3   For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 

2Ti 4:4   And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 

d. The increase in killing, so that the one who kills does not know why he killed, and the one killed does not know why he was killed. I was recently sent an article from the Washington Post about the rise of gang warfare. Part of the initiation ceremony was for a new gang member(some times as young as eleven) to shoot someone. The second highest cause of death from fifteen to thirty five in the US are gun related. The massacre of civilians in the Vietnam War by American troops who had little idea why they were there, and the increase of such conflicts, is further illustration of the fulfillment of this prophecy. As are the rise of insane mass murders, of children killing children, such as Jamie Bulger.

Again with murder being prescribed in Islam this should come as no surprise to someone living in an Islamic controlled area, but much more to the point this again is something that the Bible foretold before Muhammad uttered his first lie.

Rom 1:28   And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 

Rom 1:29   Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 

Rom 1:30   Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 

Rom 1:31   Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 

Rom 1:32   Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. 

What a vivid description of the legacy that Muhammad left behind. Being cheif among them.

e. The increase of the use of riba (usury/interest) so that no one will able to escape being tainted by it. This clearly the state of the world economy today.

That was a problem already persistent then and had been for some time among the Jews. Muhammad only concerned himself with interest laws because he thought it would appease the Jews and convince them of his prophethood. It didn't but he was still stuck with the interest laws. However it did not keep him from charging a hefty 20% on all ill gotten goods.


f. The enemies of the Muslims dividing the Muslim's wealth and lands between them, the Muslims abandoning jihad, and concerning themselves only with the worldly matters. We have already mentioned this.

Then are YOU ready to conduct jihad? Are you the first of many muslims up here to admit it is nothing more than military conquest? And undoubtedly Muhammad was aware that at some point people would strike back at his pervasive religion.

g. The increase of literacy.

Just not Muhammad's. And literacy was already on the rise due to the need for transcontinental business transactions. And this again was already foretold in the Bible.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

h. The decrease of religious knowledge due to the disappearance of scholars.

Correct me if I am wrong but it would seem the world abounds with such scholars. Especially in the Muslim world. So is this then false?

i. The increase of musical instruments, and the Muslims making it lawful even though the Prophet has forbidden them.

Purely subjective given one's idea of music. And there is no way to know this for sure as most of the instruments we currently have already existed at the time of Muhammad and many we no longer have existed before him.

j. The increase of sexual promiscuity, and new diseases that people had not herd of before spreading amongst them as a consequence of that. This is clear, with the arrival of AIDS, and other previously unheard of viruses.

Given Muhammad's sanction of rape, polygamy, and concubines would this surprise you? Besides the Bible already condemned such immoral sexual conduct and warned of punishment for such unrepented sin.

1Cr 6:18   Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 

1Cr 6:19   What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 

k. Appearance of Dajjals (liars), each claiming to be a Messenger of Allah, while Muhammad is the last messenger. There are numerous examples of this, starting with Musailima, who arose in the time of the Prophet, just before his death, to more modern liars such as Elija Muhammad, founder of the Black American racist movement "The Nation of Islam", and India's pretender Gulam Ahmed of Qadian.

Jesus already warned us of false prophets including Muhammad.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
 
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
 
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Muhammad is among a very long list of false prophets. He taught and did the exact opposite of the Lord Jesus Christ.

l. Nakedness of women while still being dressed and people copulating like donkeys in public. Obviously a direct reference to soft and hard-core pornography, which has become a dark stain on our society in recent times.

Not as obvious as you state given that such lewdness has been a staple of civilization since ancient times. The appeal of sexual promiscuity is so alluring that Muhammad granted it as permissible to muslim men by allowing him numerous wives, concubines, etc. Then to cap it off he promised them eternity in a heaven filled with such debauchary.

m. The drinking of wine becoming common, and the Muslims making it lawful by calling it another name.

Well why wouldn't they given that Muhammad promised plenty of it in heaven? Furthermore this is yet another case like all of the above of reading into history what was occuring in the present.

n. Shouting in the mosques and lack of unity.

I wouldn't know about that personally but if you look at many of the youtube videos that show such behaviour it is usually anti-Jewish, anti-Christian, anti-Israel, anti-american rhetoric they are shouting. Supported no less than by verses recited by Muhammad.

o. The worst and most ignorant will become leaders and they will be oppressors. Bill Clinton, saddam Hussain and majority of worlds Leaders are prime examples.

Purely subjective. Besides Muhammad had already fulfilled that one the moment he became a leader. Bad leaders are also staples all throughout history.

p. A man will obey his wife and disobey his mother, and treat his friends kindly and shun his father.

Poor renditions of Biblical truths.

Mar 13:10   And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 

Mar 13:11   But when they shall lead [you], and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 

Mar 13:12   Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against [their] parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 

Mar 13:13   And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 

q. Men will wear silk and gold, and the making of it lawful by the Muslims even though the Prophet had forbidden it for the men of his 'Ummah (nation).

Given the general greed that is engrafted in the religion of Islam it should not come as a surprise that after Muhammad died that his followers would continue to grow in their greed. These like most of the ones on this list though are poor signs and purely subjective or impossible to observe. Jesus gave specific signs of His return. For instance, the Jews regaining Israel and Jerusalem, increase in earthquakes, famine, wars, and a great apostasy of the faith He instituted. Those are observable signs and can be quantified.

r. People will abandon the religion for a small worldly gain, and keeping to the religion will be like holding two hot coals.

Once conquest stopped and the wealth stopped flowing it is natural for natural minded men to return to their lusts.

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

History shows that the minute Islamic expansion was halted a stagnation began to creep in to the Caliphates. That is the reason that technology had ceased as an enterprise for so long. All the glory that Islam heeps to itself, medicine, algebra, philosophy, etc. were stolen concepts from subjugated people. Islam itself supresses genuine inquiry and as a result the moment they were unable to steal what they needed to progress they regressed. That is the issue they face today. If it had not been for western nations showing them how to drill those oil fields in the middle east would remained untapped.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

punisher

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 03:31:45 AM »
@Peter

Quote
I found an entertaining site regarding prophecy in the Quran. I think this guy is actually serious about his site.
http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/prophecies.html
Here are some of the more entertaining highlights:

They are Qadiani, the traitor of Islam, and non - Muslim

and Follower of False Prophet Mirza Ghulam Qadiani. So don't waste ur time???

« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 03:37:26 AM by punisher »

punisher

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 06:11:08 AM »
The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031

First of all this is ridiculous. Given the close proximity of fulfillment to prophecy such "predictions" are easy to make. Biblical prophecies give exact time frames and are given far enough in advance to eliminate the possiblility of informed guess work. Also the verse above is rendered incorrectly. It actually reads,

Ok brother can u Predict who will be superpower after America???

The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031
First of all this isn't a prophecy. This was Muhammad showing confidence that his plan of pillage, murder, rape, extortion, and all around dishonesty had worked to further his goals and that the this formula would continue to be effective. Also if 3:12 were true then why does the west still deny your faith. It has been 1400 years and while the apostasy of the Church has occured, JUST AS JESUS SAID IT WOULD, Islam is far from conquering the world. I would also add the Hitler promised victory over his enemies all throughout WW2 using the same tactics as Muhammad. And I am sure that had he dressed it up as a religion as Muhammad did he would have been even more successful.

Yes this is not a prophecy for disbeliever, but for those who believe


The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031

Such traditions exist in many religions, Judaism and Christianity being prime among them. Borrowed prophecies does not a prophet make.

Before I go any further you were asked to show from the koran any prophecies, which you failed to do, NOT the hadith. Since they were written far after the life of Muhammad.

Why such tradition exist in many religions because people had changed Islam to Christianity and Judaism and that's why Allah send his Final messenger for Guidance of Mankind???

The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031

Irrelevant as these things were recorded LOOOOOONNG after Muhammad's life and were likely made up since they do NOT exist in the koran.

You didn't able to find the answer on the whole net for that????

and all ur replies are useless no words of knowledge from them, but a hired knowledge???