Author Topic: Consider the Qur'an. OK  (Read 1961 times)

resistingrexmundi

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Consider the Qur'an. OK
« on: August 29, 2009, 11:36:42 AM »
"Do they not consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein many a  contradiction." Sura 4:82 (Al-Hilali)

As the word of God should this verse not read, "...they would surely find NO contradictions." So here I will consider the koran  and see if contradictions arise.

Sura 4:48. Verily, All'h forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything  else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with All'h in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin.

Here Allah says that he will not forgive shirk.(the sin of worshipping anyone other than Allah)

Sura 39:53. Say: "O 'Ib'd' (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not  of the Mercy of All'h, verily All'h forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Here Allah says that he forgives ALL sins. The worst thing about this is that Abraham is guilty of shirk.

Surah 6:76. When the night covered him over with darkness he saw a star. He said: "This is my lord." But when it set, he said: "I  like not those that set."

:77. When he saw the moon rising up, he said: "This is my lord." But when it set, he said: "Unless my Lord guides me, I shall  surely be among the erring people."

:78. When he saw the sun rising up, he said: "This is my lord. This is greater." But when it set, he said: "O my people! I am  indeed free from all that you join as partners in worship with All'h.

Since muslims contention is that Islam has always existed and the verse above shows that Abraham already possesed knowledge of  Allah he could not even blame his shirk to ignorance. All angels except for satan committed this sin at Allah's command.

Sura 18:50. And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Ibl's (Satan). He was one of  the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Ibl's) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather  than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Z'lim'n (polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc).

Sura 7:11. And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told  the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Ibl's (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate.

Sura 15:29. "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall  (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."

:30. So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together.

:31. Except Ibl's (Satan), - he refused to be among the prostrators.

Since satan has not worshipped anyone other than Allah then by Allah's revelation on shirk he is the only one capable of being  forgiven.

Allah claims that he can abrogate his own revelations or cause them to be forgotten.

Sura 2:106. Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know  you not that All'h is able to do all things?

Sura 16:101. And when We change a Verse [of the Qur'an, i.e. cancel (abrogate) its order] in place of another, and All'h knows the  best of what He sends down, they (the disbelievers) say: "You (O Muhammad SAW) are but a Muftari! (forger, liar)." Nay, but most  of them know not.

So why does Allah also say this?

Sura 6:34. Verily, (many) Messengers were denied before you (O Muhammad SAW), but with patience they bore the denial, and they  were hurt, till Our Help reached them, and none can alter the Words (Decisions) of All'h. Surely there has reached you the  information (news) about the Messengers (before you).

Or this?

Sura 10:64. For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present world[] (i.e. righteous dream seen by the person himself or  shown to others), and in the Hereafter. No change can there be in the Words of All'h, this is indeed the supreme success.

Or this?

Sura 18:27. And recite what has been revealed to you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Book (the Qur'an) of your Lord (i.e. recite it,  understand and follow its teachings and act on its orders and preach it to men). None can change His Words, and none will you find  as a refuge other than Him.

The koran also states that not everyone must be muslim to be saved.

Sura 2:62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the  Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

However Allah also says that one must be a muslim to get to paradise.

Sura 3:85. And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl'm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of  the losers.

Ironically the Sabians mentioned in Sura 2 worshipped the sun, moon and the stars effectively committing shirk. The next verses we  will consider pose a serious issue in terms of contradictions. When Islam spread and became the state religion of Arabia Muhammad  said that Islam started from the beginning. So Adam was the first muslim. However the koran itself states otherwise.

Sura 6:14. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Shall I take as a Wal' (helper, protector, etc.) any other than All'h, the Creator of the  heavens and the earth? And it is He Who feeds but is not fed." Say: "Verily, I am commanded to be the first of those who submit  themselves to All'h (as Muslims)." And be not you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Mushrik'n [polytheists, pagans, idolaters and  disbelievers in the Oneness of All'h].

:163. "He has no partner. And of this I have been commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims."

But the koran even contradicts this later.

143. And when M'sa (Moses) came at the time and place appointed by Us, and his Lord spoke to him, he said: "O my Lord! Show me  (Yourself), that I may look upon You." All'h said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain if it stands still in its place  then you shall see Me." So when his Lord appeared to the mountain[], He made it collapse to dust, and M'sa (Moses) fell down  unconscious. Then when he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to You, I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the  believers."

So which is it? Adam? Muhammad? Moses? More questions pop up the more you read in the koran. Like, "How many days did it take God  to create the earth?"

Sura 41:9. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Do you verily disbelieve in Him Who created the earth in two Days and you set up rivals (in  worship) with Him? That is the Lord of the 'Alam'n (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

Verse 9 says earth was created in 2 days. While the next verse says 4.

:10. He placed therein (i.e. the earth) firm mountains from above it, and He blessed it, and measured therein its sustenance (for  its dwellers) in four Days equal (i.e. all these four 'days' were equal in the length of time), for all those who ask (about its  creation).

While Sura 32:4 says that it took six days.

Sura 32:4. All'h it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six Days. Then He Istaw'  (rose over) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wal' (protector or helper  etc.) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or be admonished)?

So do these verses.

Sura 7:54. Indeed your Lord is All'h, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and then He Istaw' (rose over) the Throne  (really in a manner that suits His Majesty). He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly, and (He created) the  sun, the moon, the stars subjected to His Command. Surely, His is the Creation and Commandment. Blessed be All'h, the Lord of the  'Alam'n (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!

Sura 10:3. Surely, your Lord is All'h Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then Istaw' (rose over) the Throne  (really in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after  His Leave. That is All'h, your Lord; so worship Him (Alone). Then, will you not remember?

So if Allah isn't sure about how many days it took him to create the earth then how can we trust anything else he tells us? The  nature of free will is a hotly disputed subject. What does Allah say on the matter?

Sura 8:29. O you who believe! If you obey and fear All'h, He will grant you Furq'n a criterion [(to judge between right and  wrong), or (Makhraj, i.e. making a way for you to get out from every difficulty)], and will expiate for you your sins, and forgive  you, and All'h is the Owner of the Great Bounty.

So Allah says that he will allow us a way to judge between right and wrong, good and evil, and will forgive our sins if we judge  rightly. Sounds reasonable and fair. But is Allah consistent?

Sura 14:4. And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for  them. Then All'h misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.

Sura 16:37. If you (O Muhammad SAW) covet for their guidance[], then verily All'h guides not those whom He makes to go astray (or  none can guide him whom All'h sends astray). And they will have no helpers.

Sura 74:31. And We have set none but angels as guardians of the Fire, and We have fixed their number (19) only as a trial for the  disbelievers, in order that the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) may arrive at a certainty [that this Qur''n is the  truth as it agrees with their Books i.e. their number (19) is written in the Taur't (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] and the  believers may increase in Faith (as this Qur'an is the truth) and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Scripture and  the believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease (of hypocrisy) and the disbelievers may say: "What All'h intends by  this (curious) example ?" Thus All'h leads astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And none can know the hosts of your Lord  but He. And this (Hell) is nothing else than a (warning) reminder to mankind.

In the above verses we read that Allah leads astray whomever he wishes. How is it fair that people would be judged according to  their belief if an almighty god leads them astray? Furthermore how does this link up with the fact that Allah also said he would  allow everyone to judge right from wrong and recieve forgiveness? What does Allah say on the matter of human creation?

Sura 15:26. And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

Ok. We were created from mud.

54. And it is He Who has created man from water, and has appointed for him kindred by blood, and kindred by marriage. And your  Lord is Ever All-Powerful to do what He will.

Uh...appearantly we were created from water. Well mud does contain water.

Sura 96:2. Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).

Well I guess that clots could be in that mud.

Sura 30:20. And among His Signs is this, that He created you (Adam) from dust, and then [Hawwa' (Eve) from Adam's rib, and then  his offspring from the semen, and], - behold you are human beings scattered!

Um...dust...well add the water and the clots and you get mud...VOILA! I hope you can see the huge problem here. Next let's  consider what Allah says on the idea of inter-religious co-mingling.

Sura 2:221. And do not marry Al-Mushrik't (idolatresses, etc.) till they believe (worship All'h Alone). And indeed a slave woman  who believes is better than a (free) Mushrikah (idolatress, etc.), even though she pleases you. And give not (your daughters) in  marriage to Al-Mushrik'n[] till they believe (in All'h Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik  (idolater, etc.), even though he pleases you. Those (Al-Mushrik'n) invite you to the Fire, but All'h invites (you) to Paradise and  Forgiveness by His Leave, and makes His Ay't (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to mankind that  they may remember.

So no marriage with non-believers. Gotcha.

Sura 5:5. Made lawful to you this day are At-Tayyib't [all kinds of Hal'l (lawful) foods, which All'h has made lawful (meat of  slaughtered eatable animals, etc., milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits, etc.). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable  animals, etc.) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you  in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)  before your time, when you have given their due Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage),  desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girl-friends.  And whosoever disbelieves in the Oneness of All'h and in all the other Articles of Faith [i.e. His (All'h's), Angels, His Holy  Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and Al'Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work, and in the  Hereafter he will be among the losers.

Here muslims can marry Christians and Jews. Either Christians and Jews are considered believers(if that is the case then why  bother with the koran) or we have another contradiction. Later in the same Sura we discover that muslims are commanded to not even  take Christians and Jews as friends.(or allies in some translations)

Sura 5:51. O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliy'' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but  Auliy'' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliy'', then surely he is one of them. Verily, All'h guides not  those people who are the Z'lim'n (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).

Whether friend or ally the point is they are not allowed such a relationship. Yet they are allowed to marry Jews or Christians, so  long as they overlook Sura 2:221. Marriage is the ultimate form of alliance. But since they are not allowed to be friends or  allies with Christians and Jews, but can still marry them, this may explain all the spousal abuse that occurs. Not that it needed  further explanation outside of the Surahs dealing with the mistreatment of women. That, however, is another topic.

So we see that indeed many contradictions occur. Including one nullyifying abrogation. Abrogation is the only tool that could  possibly combat such contradiction and yet it was undermined. So the finding of contradictions has satisfied the criteria set down  in Sura 4:82. I hope this helps lead people out of the darkness and into the light of God. For detailed discussion on this topic I  highly recommend "Anatomy of the Qur'an" by G.J.O. Moshay. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=410.0 here is a link on the  forum that provides information on how to order this great book.

God bless
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 03:04:04 PM by Peter »
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Consider the Qur'an. OK
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 10:27:21 AM »
I found some more contradictions in the koran. I don't feel the point is missed in the above post but I figure I would post more as I found them.

Was Pharaoh killed by drowning or not? 

Here it says Pharoah was saved because he converted.

"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!  This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).

Here it says Pharoah was drowned with the rest of his forces.

Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!"  So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

Now unless there are more instances of Pharoah pursuing the Israelites through a sea then how can these two verses be reconciled.

Is wine consumption good or bad? 

Here we see that God says not to drink intoxicants.

O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).

Here wine is given as a reward by God.

(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).

Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

Before anyone says that the rewards mentioned above are metaphor one should remember that all of this is written as actual occurences in heaven. How else could all the sex mentioned elsewhere be spiritualized away. Besides the torments of hell are considered literal, so then too should be the pleasures of heaven.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon