"The Immaculate Conception was solemnly defined as a dogma by Pope Pius IX in his constitution Ineffabilis Deus on 8 December
1854."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_ConceptionTook 1800 years to come up with this dogma.
Essential point of below conversations:
Catholic source Douay-Rheims:
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/49001.htmLuke 1:28
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, FULL OF GRACE, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.Douay-Rheims self-contradiction:
Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOR.It's a contradiction to consider Mary FULL of grace yet in need of a Savior. What's a Savior for if not to save us from our sin.
But I see the error is scrubbed out of RCC - New American Bible, and it comes a little closer to matching the KJV:
http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/Luke 1:28
And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."(KJV) Luk 1:28
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.
God's Word describes ONLY ONE as being FULL OF GRACE. The ONLY ONE that is:Jhn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.Textus Receptus: (Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Luke 1:28 kai <2532> {AND} eiselqwn <1525> (5631) {COMING} o <3588> {THE} aggeloV <32> {ANGEL} proV <4314> {TO} authn <846> {HER} eipen <2036> (5627) {SAID,} caire <5463> (5720) {HAIL, [THOU]} kecaritwmenh <5487> (5772) {FAVOURED ONE!} o <3588> {THE} kurioV <2962> {LORD [IS]} meta <3326> {WITH} sou <4675> {THEE,} euloghmenh <2127> (5772) {BLESSED [ART]} su <4771> {THOU} en <1722> {AMONGST} gunaixin <1135> {WOMEN.}
______________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNnHZbxkh0AThe above YouTube got me to searching around a little.
Catholic reply making a good point:
so you are saying that Mary can be sinful AND full of grace at the same time? How can that be? Educate me.I did a KJV search of - full grace - and found the following:
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.This is a reference to Jesus Christ, not Mary. Could you please help with the verse you reference, then we can look at the TR too. Thanks.
_________________
I searched more and found the source of this RCC error.
(KJV) Luke 1:28
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.
(Douay-Rheims)Luke 1:28
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, FULL OF GRACE, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.Douay Rheims contradicts itself:
Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in GOD MY SAVIOR.Saved Mary from what?
I'd advise throwing out the DR and picking up a KJV.
________________________
In a different video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2iV-BbVGwBelow we find the typical RCC - ignore the substance and attack the messenger - along with spurious claims.FIDESetRATIOihtys:
good points brother. Thank you for posting. God bless you and keep you from all evil. Amen!
seltian (5 days ago)
Grazie!
God bless you and keep you,
Anthony
thebibleword (5 days ago)
Of course the sin is on their souls, everyone agreeing with a lie is a liar, ecumenism is from the devil and will destroy the catholic faith, wake up.
seltian (5 days ago)
Not if they don't know that it's a lie. A mortal sin must, by definition, be committed by someone who KNOWS that what they are doing is mortally sinful.
Eccumenism is not from the devil. Jesus called the peace-maker "blessed" (Mat. 5:9). As long as we make sure not to compromise our beliefs in favour of it, eccumenism is a very holy and Christian practice.
God bless you and keep you,
Anthony
thebibleword (5 days ago)
Instead ask them of their faults not agreeing with the bible since they are satans apostles according to the bible and should be shunned as the bible says until they agree with the doctrines of the bible
seltian (5 days ago)
Satan's apostles?! As this video shows, Catholics and Protestants agree on an insane amount of stuff! Sure, our differences are significant, but what unites us is much stronger than what divides us.
I have another video: "Catholics need to represent their faith." Please watch it. Calling Protestants "Satan's apostles" is not only anti-Protestant, it's anti-Catholic and wrong!
thebibleword (4 days ago)
Thomas Aquinas said that we should burn those people. While I dont agree on that I agree on calling them out on their false doctrine instead of doing the opposite. Saints and bible tells me so but you dont seem to know bro, hope you realize they were never christian but evil demons, unless they repent. Peace
seltian (4 days ago)
"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the
seltian (4 days ago)
children of the Catholic Church." CCC 818
PatristicEchoes (5 days ago)
You'll win some souls for Christ's Church with that attitude, I promise. Sounds like the mindset of a Fundamentalist Bible-thumping bigot... not a Christ loving Catholic. Come on man, I'm not saying be a bleeding heart but tough love isn't spiteful arrogance.
PeteWaldo (4 days ago)
excellent website sensitively written by an x-nun: catholicconcerns . com
I had no idea how far Mary worship and idolatry had gone in the RCC:
catholicconcerns . com/MaryWorship . html
Apostolic succession in the Catholic church?
Consider the men in that succession:
catholicconcerns . com/Popes . html
PatristicEchoes (2 days ago)
Ironically, websites run by ex-Catholics similar to these directly contributed to me making the transformation from an uneducated cradle Catholic to a devout member of Christ's Church. These people post the same tired arguments and don't have much clue about the reasoning, history, or authority of Catholic doctrine. I love knowing my church was founded by Jesus himself and not by a person who disagreed with it.
That she says the Early Fathers didn't value Tradition truly shows her ignorance.
PeteWaldo (2 days ago)
THE WEBSITE AUTHOR IS AN X-NUN.
Your church was not founded by Jesus. Indeed your church has relegated Jesus to the back seat. Mary is not an intercessor.
Your doctrine is anything but infallible.
For example:
PeteWaldo (2 days ago)
Infallability:
In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree which rejected the assumption of Mary doctrine as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught it. Here we have "infallible" popes declaring a doctrine to be a heresy. Then on November 1, 1950, we have Pope Pius XII (another "infallible" pope) declaring the same doctrine to be official Roman Catholic doctrine, which all Catholics are required to believe.
PeteWaldo (2 days ago)
Apostolic succession Catholic style:
In 769, Pope Stephen IV came to power with the help of an army which conquered the previous Pope. Stephen gave orders for his papal rival to be flogged, have his eyes cut out, have his kneecaps broken, and be imprisoned until he died. Then Pope Stephen sentenced a second man to die a slow, agonizing death. He had pieces of his body cut off every day until he finally died.
PeteWaldo (2 days ago)
In the tenth century, a wealthy Italian noblewoman named Marozia put nine popes into office in eight years. In order to do that, she also had to get rid of reigning popes. Two of them were strangled, one was suffocated, and four disappeared under mysterious circumstances. One of the popes was Marozia's son; he was fathered by a Pope.
PatristicEchoes (1 day ago)
Sir, I clicked on that website and it took all of 10 seconds for me to see her stating historical "facts" about the Church that are not facts at all. Her being an ex-nun is irrelevant to the discussion. Satan is an ex-angel of Heaven and I wouldn't take his word on anything either.
PeteWaldo (1 day ago)
I see. Perhaps not a grain of truth to it.
"The conservative group True Catholic also claims that Pope John Paul II has taught 101 things which are contrary to "infallible" Catholic doctrines which were declared by "infallible" popes and church councils. They conclude that John Paul is therefore a heretic, which, according to Canon Law, means that he is not a valid pope. So they call him an anti-pope."
PeteWaldo (1 day ago)
Pope Honorius reigned from 625 to 638 A.D. He was condemned as a heretic by the Sixth Ecumenical Council (680-681). He was also condemned as a heretic by Pope Leo II, as well as by every other pope until the eleventh century.
Pope Leo V only reigned for one month (July 903). Cardinal Christopher put Leo in prison and became Pope. Then Christopher was put in prison by Cardinal Sergius. Sergius killed Leo and Christopher while they were in prison. He also killed every cardinal who had opposed him.
PeteWaldo (1 day ago)
Pope Benedict IX reigned from 1032 to 1044, in 1045, and from 1047 to 1048. He became Pope through bribery. He squandered the wealth of the Papacy on prostitutes and lavish banquets, and he had people murdered. The citizens of Rome hated Benedict so much that, on two occasions, he had to flee from Rome. Benedict sold the papacy to Pope Gregory VI. As part of the deal, he continued to live in the Lateran Palace, with a generous income. Benedict filled the Lateran Palace with prostitutes.
thebibleword (1 day ago)
See how these heretics deny the Mother and everything sacred, they are worse than murderers and should be shunned at all cost, they will kill you in the end rather than you will make them catholic seltian.
PeteWaldo (1 day ago)
Come on tbw.
In 1949 if a Catholic believed in the assumption of Mary they were considered a heretic.
In 1950 if a Catholic didn't believe in the assumption of Mary they were considered a heretic.
Catholics shun Jesus, our only intercessor.
A lady friend was at confession recently where she discovered that the priest was gay. Having been found out he inquired as to what she thought. She voiced her negative opinion, and then had to beg the guy to tell her whether she was absolved. Twisted stuff.
GraceBeMine (1 day ago)
Pete- you are mistaken. The Dogmas of BOTH the Immaculate Conception AND The Assumption of Mary were long held beliefs of Catholics.
The Dogmas did not force anything new onto the faithful, they CONFIRMED what the faithful had always believed.
As for your friend, you should suggest to her to:
1- find another priest
2- report the incident to the Bishop.
Finally, Catholics do not "shun" Jesus. He is our only MEDIATOR with God. We have many intercessors. Don't you pray for people?
PeteWaldo (1 day ago)
Then how do you explain Pope Gelasius decree of 495 A.D. which rejected the assumption of Mary doctrine as heresy and its proponents as heretics. Or sixth century, Pope Hormisdas condemning as heretics those authors who taught it.
Intercessors. Right. Report him. You can't possibly be that naive.
Try a Yahoo -
catholic seminary gayThe RCC is larded with gays
I pray for people all the time. I don't pray for dead people as they are in God's hands.
Best information on Islam is from x-Muslims too.
tobitnthedog (22 hours ago)
"The RCC is larded with gays"
You might want to ask 'James the socalled preacher' about his friend, another street preacher, who is being investigated for abuseing his daughter and allowing his friends to molest her.
Where in the world is Waldo now????
PeteWaldo (16 hours ago)
Typical RCC defense. Well someone else did it so it's OK for us.
Same defense of papal murder of millions. The biggest reason Muslims can't come to the truth. They understandably accuse CHRISTIANITY of papal murder and persecution, rather than the RCC.
Regarding RCC try another Yahoo search:
catholic church sex lawsuit millionsAlways plenty of new stuff. This time I see that the RCC is transfering assets.
GraceBeMine (1 hour ago)
PW- Big dif- Islam was not founded by Jesus Christ himself. In fact, as a religion, Islam is more anti-christ then anything else. It was founded AFTER Christianity and it denies Jesus as the Christ. That is the spirit of the anti-christ,
1 John 2:22-23
Also, please tell me what happens when someone dies.
GraceBeMine (1 hour ago)
PW-you obviously have a deceptive laden agenda. How sad. You claim you were once Catholic but now have left, sigh.
BTW, everything in your response to me was in error.
Can you post any quotes from the popes you cited? I have many quotes from the ECF,including popes, regarding devotion to Mary.
Rejecting His Mother is but one step away from rejecting Her Son. When you reject the RCC(as a *former* one)you are indeed rejecting Jesus. You have been led out of the garden like A&E by ykw.
PeteWaldo (1 day ago)
If I'm not mistaken wasn't it the pope and Catholics that believe that Protestants aren't Christians? That Protestants can't be saved without the Catholic "real presence" in the Eucharist?
Does the Catholic Church still sell absolution?
Most protestants recognize from Rev ch 2-3 there will be a remnant saved even in the worst of churches. Can I imagine that there is a disproportionate number that will be lost in the Catholic church who believe they are saved through an act of the flesh? Yes.
tobitnthedog (22 hours ago)
"If I'm not mistaken wasn't it the pope and Catholics that believe that Protestants aren't Christians? "
You are mistaken...again. Read the Vatican II documents. Or perhaps you don't want to cloud the issue with facts.
But what to expect from a Ruckerman who can only copy and paste.
PeteWaldo (16 hours ago)
I understand Catholics very legitimate fear of search engines, as they might find truth, but:
"For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict XVI has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches."
You don't have to look far tob.
PatristicEchoes (14 hours ago
Pete, you are mistaken on many things. The problem is your sources are ant-Catholic and their goal isn't truth- it's to bash the Church. If you'd take the time to study Catholic sources you'd see the Church is often misquoted in what it actually believes. Just in this thread you've posted things that are contrary to Catholic belief. If I had the misguided view and info regarding the Catholic Church that you do, I'd reject it as well.
Do you only bash Catholics- or Eastern Orthodox as well?
PeteWaldo (2 hours ago)
PE, X-Catholics that aren't "bashing" the RCC but writing truth.
The best sources are those that have been blessed by overcoming a doctrine. That's when our eyes are opened.
I am a former futurist. The more I study the more I understand why the enemy put that doctrine in the church.
X-Muslims are a great source to learn about Islam.
In study in a similar discussion, for example, I found that Douay-Rheims contradicts itself re Mary "full of grace": Luke 1:28 as opposed to 1:47.
I "bash" error.
PeteWaldo (2 hours ago)
By the way. That Luke 1:28 verse isn't just "error". It's blasphemy. There is only ONE described that way:Jhn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.I'd throw out that self-contradicting Douay-Rheims version and pick up a KJV and/or Textus Receptus.
PeteWaldo (2 hours ago)
Source for Douay-Rheims:
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm(Douay-Rheims)Luke 1:28
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, FULL OF GRACE, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.Contradiction:
Luke 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOR.Saved from what? What are we saved from?
PeteWaldo (2 hours ago)
Catholic source Douay-Rheims:
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/49001.htmLuke 1:28
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, FULL OF GRACE, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.But I see the error is scrubbed out of The New American bible, and it matches the KJV:
http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/Luke 1:28
And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."So why do you still worship Mary with "full of grace" blasphemy?
Jesus Christ is the ONLY ONE described that way.PeteWaldo (51 minutes ago)
"How sad. You claim you were once Catholic but now have left, sigh."
No, blessedly I was never entrapped by RCC heresy. However my poor dear wife was indoctrinated into the RCC.
What do they say? If they hook you until you're 5 they own you for life?
I was a former "futurist". The popular 7-year tribulation eschatology in the evangelical church that was penned by John Darby in the 19th century.
I showed you the error in your bible, but true to form, discussion is about the messenger.
PeteWaldo (39 minutes ago)
If your post was intended to be informational re Islam, you apparently haven't visited my channel which focuses on Islam.
The RCC is a big reason Muslims can't find the truth.
Whether the pope kissing the koran (that curses those that believe in the Son of God) as if they worship the God of Abraham, when in fact they worship Satan.
Or the historical murderous nature of the RCC that Muslims use to justify Mohammed's violence, RCC heresy and denial aid satan's lie of Islam.
http://www.beholdthebeast.comPeteWaldo (3 minutes ago)
Pope Gelasius decree re assumption of Mary doctrine heresy:
Decretum de Libris Canonicis Ecclesiasticis et Apocryphis.
http://www.tertullian.org/decretum_eng.htmThe FACT is that this doctrine WAS NOT RCC dogma until 1950.
With a little effort you could overcome the RCC, but your interest needs to lie in truth, not men. The Pharisees were guilty of the same error:
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
PeteWaldo (4 seconds ago)
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
IN TYPICAL ROMAN CHURCH MEMBER FEAR OF TRUTH FASHION, THE ABOVE WAS EVENTUALLY ERASED FROM THE VIDEO BY THE PERSON WHO UPLOADED IT - SELITAN. FUNNY THING ABOUT TRUTH.
INTERESTINGLY, IT IS THE ONE CONVERSATION I HAPPENED TO COPY AND PASTE INTO HERE.
