Something puzzles me when I read the story of Samson who was born to aged parents. He was a Nazirite set apart for God's service and therefore did not cut his hair or drink alcohol. His exploits included tearing a lion apart with his bare hands, killing a company of the men of Ashdod, setting fire to their fields and orchards, and slaughtering a thousand men with the jawbone of an ass. After a Philistine woman named Delilah enticed Samson to reveal the secret of his great strength, she cut off his hair, and the Philistines gouged out his eyes, bound him with strong fetters, and set him to grind at the mill in the prison. But Samson's hair, the secret of his strength, began to grow again. The day came when the Philistine lords sent for the blind Samson to laugh at him. Samson felt for the pillars on which the house rested, pulled them down, and died along with many Philistines.
Was this the first suicide matyr?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 19, 2010, 03:33:13 PM
Something puzzles me when I read the story of Samson who was born to aged parents. He was a Nazirite set apart for God's service and therefore did not cut his hair or drink alcohol. His exploits included tearing a lion apart with his bare hands, killing a company of the men of Ashdod, setting fire to their fields and orchards, and slaughtering a thousand men with the jawbone of an ass. After a Philistine woman named Delilah enticed Samson to reveal the secret of his great strength, she cut off his hair, and the Philistines gouged out his eyes, bound him with strong fetters, and set him to grind at the mill in the prison. But Samson's hair, the secret of his strength, began to grow again. The day came when the Philistine lords sent for the blind Samson to laugh at him. Samson felt for the pillars on which the house rested, pulled them down, and died along with many Philistines.
Was this the first suicide matyr?
Hi Mujaheed, and welcome to the forum! :)
I think the consensus vote for first martyr would likely be for Able. His brother Cain the first murderer.
Whoops correction. I didn't read your post very carefully. Sorry.
If by "suicide martyr" you mean someone that dies with intent while in the act of murdering innocents, or dies inadvertently while engaged in imperialistic conquest, there is no such thing.
For example a Christian martyr would say "I will die for what I believe in."
A Muslim so-called martyr says "You will die for what I believe in."
Here are examples of a few martyrs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Here's a book full of more "FOX's BOOK of MARTYRS"
http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html
As contrasted to this YouTube with a few examples of failed would-be suicide murderers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Again, welcome to the forum Mujaheed.
Quote from: Peter on October 19, 2010, 03:39:14 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 19, 2010, 03:33:13 PM
Something puzzles me when I read the story of Samson who was born to aged parents. He was a Nazirite set apart for God's service and therefore did not cut his hair or drink alcohol. His exploits included tearing a lion apart with his bare hands, killing a company of the men of Ashdod, setting fire to their fields and orchards, and slaughtering a thousand men with the jawbone of an ass. After a Philistine woman named Delilah enticed Samson to reveal the secret of his great strength, she cut off his hair, and the Philistines gouged out his eyes, bound him with strong fetters, and set him to grind at the mill in the prison. But Samson's hair, the secret of his strength, began to grow again. The day came when the Philistine lords sent for the blind Samson to laugh at him. Samson felt for the pillars on which the house rested, pulled them down, and died along with many Philistines.
Was this the first suicide matyr?
Hi Mujaheed, and welcome to the forum! :)
I think the consensus vote for first martyr would likely be for Able. His brother Cain the first murderer.
Whoops correction. I didn't read your post very carefully. Sorry.
If by "suicide martyr" you mean someone that dies with intent while in the act of murdering innocents, or dies inadvertently while engaged in imperialistic conquest, there is no such thing.
For example a Christian martyr would say "I will die for what I believe in."
DID EVERYONE NOT DIE FOR WHAT SMSON BELIEVED IN< even worse was he avenging himself and will he go to heaven?
A Muslim so-called martyr says "You will die for what I believe in."
Here are examples of a few martyrs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Here's a book full of more "FOX's BOOK of MARTYRS"
http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html
As contrasted to this YouTube with a few examples of failed would-be suicide murderers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Again, welcome to the forum Mujaheed.
There are instructions on quoting here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0
Otherwise just leave the first and last tag, for example the top tag like this
[ quote author=Peter link=topic=1899.msg7864#msg7864 date=1287533674 ]
and remove everything you don't want before the last tag that looks like this
[/quote]
then type
after that last tag.
Don't be afraid to chop it up into pieces.
Regarding your question,
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 19, 2010, 03:33:13 PM
"DID EVERYONE NOT DIE FOR WHAT SMSON BELIEVED IN< even worse was he avenging himself and will he go to heaven?"
It's late and I'm tired and am too unfamiliar with the story offhand to answer just yet. Besides it's an unimportant and unnecessary distraction from the content of the post. We have much larger topics to cover. Please address the rest of the points in the post. Can you see the difference between Christian martyrs and Islam's so-called martyrs?
Regarding your question,
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 19, 2010, 03:33:13 PM
"DID EVERYONE NOT DIE FOR WHAT SMSON BELIEVED IN< even worse was he avenging himself and will he go to heaven?"
It's late and I'm tired and am too unfamiliar with the story offhand to answer just yet. Besides it's an unimportant and unnecessary distraction from the content of the post. We have much larger topics to cover. Please address the rest of the points in the post. Can you see the difference between Christian martyrs and Islam's so-called martyrs?
[/quote]
I'm confused by your response, the GOD of Love was always the GOD of LOVE? or GOD only loved us when Jesus was created in his mothers womb? or only loved mankind enough when Jesus was born or when He was ascended into the Heavens? So where was GOD when Samson of the Blble committed suicide?
You did request that I read the Bible (translated from the greek word biblios simply meaning book) and I happen to open it on the Chapters Judges, the Judge of Judges, and if the Book (BIBLE IN GREEK) is your yardstick you should be familiar with all its passages, I dont expect you to know them as well as a muslim Hafiz does, but at least know of the most famous of Sunday school Stories of Samson and Delilah, a major issue that seems to be conveniently forgotten or does it highlight the origin of Suicide missions for the people of the Book?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 04:52:23 AM
Regarding your question,
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 19, 2010, 03:33:13 PM
"DID EVERYONE NOT DIE FOR WHAT SMSON BELIEVED IN< even worse was he avenging himself and will he go to heaven?"
It's late and I'm tired and am too unfamiliar with the story offhand to answer just yet. Besides it's an unimportant and unnecessary distraction from the content of the post. We have much larger topics to cover. Please address the rest of the points in the post. Can you see the difference between Christian martyrs and Islam's so-called martyrs?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 04:52:23 AM
I'm confused by your response, the GOD of Love was always the GOD of LOVE?
My second advice regarding quoting was not good.
Please follow the quoting instructions. They aren't that complicated.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0
I don't believe you are really confused as much as desiring to avoid my question regarding the difference between Christian and Muslim martyrs.
Muslims can't understand what a martyr really is because of the Quran. Mohammed suggested that a martyr is someone who inadvertently is killed while in the act of murdering others during imperialistic conquest.
When aggressors attack peaceful people that are minding their own business, and then one of the attackers happens to be killed because one of the innocent people being attacked acts in his own and his family's self-defense, do you believe that makes the dead aggressor a martyr?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 04:52:23 AMor GOD only loved us when Jesus was created in his mothers womb? or only loved mankind enough when Jesus was born or when He was ascended into the Heavens? So where was GOD when Samson of the Blble committed suicide?
You did request that I read the Bible (translated from the greek word biblios simply meaning book) and I happen to open it on the Chapters Judges, the Judge of Judges, and if the Book (BIBLE IN GREEK) is your yardstick you should be familiar with all its passages, I dont expect you to know them as well as a muslim Hafiz does, but at least know of the most famous of Sunday school Stories of Samson and Delilah, a major issue that seems to be conveniently forgotten or does it highlight the origin of Suicide missions for the people of the Book?
Did Samson set out that morning with a plan to pull pillars down, and was his objective to kill innocent people?
Did Samson set out that morning with a plan to pull pillars down, and was his objective to kill innocent people?
[/quote]
For your convenience I copy and paste the story of Samson as told in the King James Version of the Bible, copied from Bible gateway, I highlight the killing part for you.
4And Samson went and caught three hundred foxes, and took firebrands, and turned tail to tail, and put a firebrand in the midst between two tails.
5And when he had set the brands on fire, he let them go into the standing corn of the Philistines, and burnt up both the shocks, and also the standing corn, with the vineyards and olives.
6Then the Philistines said, Who hath done this? And they answered, Samson, the son in law of the Timnite, because he had taken his wife, and given her to his companion. And the Philistines came up, and burnt her and her father with fire.
7And Samson said unto them, Though ye have done this, yet will I be avenged of you, and after that I will cease.
8And he smote them hip and thigh with a great slaughter: and he went down and dwelt in the top of the rock Etam.
9Then the Philistines went up, and pitched in Judah, and spread themselves in Lehi.
10And the men of Judah said, Why are ye come up against us? And they answered, To bind Samson are we come up, to do to him as he hath done to us.
11Then three thousand men of Judah went to the top of the rock Etam, and said to Samson, Knowest thou not that the Philistines are rulers over us? what is this that thou hast done unto us? And he said unto them, As they did unto me, so have I done unto them.
12And they said unto him, We are come down to bind thee, that we may deliver thee into the hand of the Philistines. And Samson said unto them, Swear unto me, that ye will not fall upon me yourselves.
13And they spake unto him, saying, No; but we will bind thee fast, and deliver thee into their hand: but surely we will not kill thee. And they bound him with two new cords, and brought him up from the rock.
14And when he came unto Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him: and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and the cords that were upon his arms became as flax that was burnt with fire, and his bands loosed from off his hands.
15And he found a new jawbone of an ass, and put forth his hand, and took it, and slew a thousand men therewith.
16And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men.
17And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking, that he cast away the jawbone out of his hand, and called that place Ramathlehi.
18And he was sore athirst, and called on the LORD, and said, Thou hast given this great deliverance into the hand of thy servant: and now shall I die for thirst, and fall into the hand of the uncircumcised?
19But God clave an hollow place that was in the jaw, and there came water thereout; and when he had drunk, his spirit came again, and he revived: wherefore he called the name thereof Enhakkore, which is in Lehi unto this day.
20And he judged Israel in the days of the Philistines twenty years.
Apparently Your GOD "the Spirit of the Lord" helped him kill a thousand men.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 07:53:40 AM
Apparently Your GOD "the Spirit of the Lord" helped him kill a thousand men.
This isn't be the only lesson taught, during the early revelation of God, to early man (in this case of the book of Judges spanning from about 1400-1100 BC). In this case to the Philistines paid for their oppression of the tribe of Judah, of whom God appointed and strengthened Samson as Israel's deliverer.
The same kind of lesson is prophesied in the Old Testament for the people of the Islamic "beast" at final judgment.
Zechariah 12:8
In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9And it shall come to pass in that day, [that]
I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And for the faithful but still sovereignly blinded Jews in Jerusalem?
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and
they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=331.0
Perhaps now you can answer my question.
When aggressors attack peaceful people that are minding their own business and then one of the attackers happens to get killed, because one of the innocent people being attacked acts in his own and his family's self-defense, do you believe that makes the dead aggressor a martyr?
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 08:33:15 AM
Perhaps now you can answer my question.
When aggressors attack peaceful people that are minding their own business and then one of the attackers happens to get killed, because one of the innocent people being attacked acts in his own and his family's self-defense, do you believe that makes the dead aggressor a martyr?
You digress,and asking me sit in judgement without the full story, If an Innocent person is killed it is as if you have killed the entire humanity (Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) Unprovoked attacks is prohibited and the Scripture clearly defines the boundaries of a human being as an individual and in terms of his participation in society and in relation to the rest of humanity.
I am not sure where you heading with this new line but you seem to be avoiding the Story of Samson and Delilah completely since the beginning of this post.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 08:33:15 AM
Perhaps now you can answer my question.
When aggressors attack peaceful people that are minding their own business and then one of the attackers happens to get killed, because one of the innocent people being attacked acts in his own and his family's self-defense, do you believe that makes the dead aggressor a martyr?
You digress,and asking me sit in judgement without the full story, ..........
"When aggressors attack peaceful people that are minding their own business and then one of the attackers happens to get killed, because one of the innocent people being attacked acts in his own and his family's self-defense, do you believe that makes the dead aggressor a martyr?"
What part of the story is missing?
Whether the imperialistic murderous aggressors were Mohammed's followers or not?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 09:25:45 AM.......... If an Innocent person .........
Folks in this forum didn't just fall off of the turnip truck.
What non-Muslim do Muslims consider innocent? Do you even judge Shiites as being innocent?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 09:25:45 AM....... is killed it is as if you have killed the entire humanity (Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) Unprovoked attacks is prohibited and the Scripture clearly defines the boundaries of a human being as an individual and in terms of his participation in society and in relation to the rest of humanity.
Then how do you explain the rape, pillage and plunder of the Islamic imperialist conquest not only throughout Arabia, but all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria?
How do you explain the over 2 million killed in the Sudan alone?
How do you explain the over 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks, around the world, just since 9-11?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
I am not sure where you heading with this new line but you seem to be avoiding the Story of Samson and Delilah completely since the beginning of this post.
Not at all. In my prior post I told you that Samson was engaged in God's service to Israel.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7884#msg7884
That he died in the process would make him a martyr - not a suicide martyr. Samson didn't set out with a plan to commit suicide while liberating the Israelites.
You could have seen this for yourself if you hadn't ignored my prior question.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872
"Did Samson set out that morning with a plan to pull pillars down, and was his objective to kill innocent people?"
Here's another.
Was Samson on a mission of Islamic style imperialistic conquest with the goal of oppressing those he vanquished, or was his mission one of liberation of the Israelites, from their oppressors?
Now let's see if you can discern the difference between a Christian and a Muslim martyr yet.
An Islamic "suicide martyr" begins with a plan, fully intending to commit suicide, while in the act of murdering innocent people.
Another Islam styled "martyr" dies inadvertently while engaged in imperialistic conquest and slaughter of innocents.
A Christian martyr on the other hand would say "I will die for what I believe in."
An Islamic so-called martyr says "You will die for what I believe in."
Here's a YouTube of examples of a few Christian martyrs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Here's a book full of martyrs "FOX's BOOK of MARTYRS"
http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html
And another "Martyr's Mirror"
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/
As contrasted to this YouTube with the words of a few examples of failed would-be Islamic suicide murderers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 08:33:15 AM
Perhaps now you can answer my question.
When aggressors attack peaceful people that are minding their own business and then one of the attackers happens to get killed, because one of the innocent people being attacked acts in his own and his family's self-defense, do you believe that makes the dead aggressor a martyr?
You digress,and asking me sit in judgement without the full story, If an Innocent person is killed it is as if you have killed the entire humanity (Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) Unprovoked attacks is prohibited and the Scripture clearly defines the boundaries of a human being as an individual and in terms of his participation in society and in relation to the rest of humanity.
I am not sure where you heading with this new line but you seem to be avoiding the Story of Samson and Delilah completely since the beginning of this post.
When Christians attack innocent people and one of them die of course they are not martyrs, and aggressor is not a martyr.
Anyone dying in the crusades is obviously not a martyr, there are no unprovoked attacks in Islamic history by the Prophet Muhammad or his companions or those generations that followed him until the end of the khaliphate in 1902 that I am aware of. The spread of Islam did not happen at the edge of the sword as you so misleading state everytime this subject comes up
Did Samson set out to commit suicide, he prayed to GOD TO KILL HIM, You obviously have selected verses to Read from the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT, I deliberately left out the second half of the story to see if you repeat your unfounded misguided question from your own intellect here is the proof he committed suicide
25 While they were in high spirits, they shouted, "Bring out Samson to entertain us." So they called Samson out of the prison, and he performed for them.
When they stood him among the pillars, 26 Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them." 27 Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. 28 Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD, remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." 29 Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other,
30 Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.
What astounds me is that you are so hell bent on insulting and telling lies about the most respected, trustworthy and honorable man (MUHAMMAD may ALLAH bestow peace upon him) by any standard and you fail to read your own bible carefully that contains all the murder mayhem incest, suicides, fornicating with prostitutes and stories filled with false charges and accusations against the prophets of GOD by godless politicians that has set out to destroy the LAW OF THE one and only GOD (ALLAH).
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 08:33:15 AM
Perhaps now you can answer my question.
When aggressors attack peaceful people that are minding their own business and then one of the attackers happens to get killed, because one of the innocent people being attacked acts in his own and his family's self-defense, do you believe that makes the dead aggressor a martyr?
You digress,and asking me sit in judgement without the full story, If an Innocent person is killed it is as if you have killed the entire humanity (Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) Unprovoked attacks is prohibited and the Scripture clearly defines the boundaries of a human being as an individual and in terms of his participation in society and in relation to the rest of humanity.
I am not sure where you heading with this new line but you seem to be avoiding the Story of Samson and Delilah completely since the beginning of this post.
When Christians attack innocent people ......
Christians don't target for murder or attack innocent people.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 11:28:48 AM...... and one of them die of course they are not martyrs, and aggressor is not a martyr.
Anyone dying in the crusades is obviously not a martyr, .......
There are at least a dozen parallels between the Roman Church and Islam.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=512.0
With both of them being murderers of Christians.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 11:28:48 AM........ there are no unprovoked attacks in Islamic history by the Prophet Muhammad or his companions or those generations that followed him until the end of the khaliphate in 1902 that I am aware of.
Then explain Islamic imperialistic conquest all the way up to France and Austria.
Explain the 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0
I don't ask these things just to be ignored.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 11:28:48 AMThe spread of Islam did not happen at the edge of the sword as you so misleading state everytime this subject comes up.
From Mohammed's return to Medina and threats against the Quraish. To outright slaughter of peaceful hardworking farmers.
Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
And rape of their wives.
Ishaq:466 "The Apostle [taking first dibs] chose one of the Jewish women for himself. Her name was Rayhana. She remained with him until she died, in his power. The Apostle proposed to marry her and put the veil on her but she said, 'Leave me under your power, for that will be easier.' She showed a repugnance towards Islam when she was captured."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0
Surely you aren't going to claim that this slaughter of innocent boys and men isn't one of the proudest moments in Islamic history.
"The Sword is the key of heaven and hell; a drop of blood shed in the cause of Allah, a night spent in arms, is of more avail than two months of fasting and prayer; whoever falls in battle, his sins are forgiven, and at the day of judgment his limbs shall be supplied by the wings of angels and cherubim."
Sure! Islam "defended" itself all the way up to France and Austria!
623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammads father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
633 - Battle at Oman
633 - Battle at Hadramaut.
633 - Battle of Kazima
633 - Battle of Walaja
633 - Battle of Ulleis
633 - Battle of Anbar
634 - Battle of Basra,
634 - Battle of Damascus
634 - Battle of Ajnadin.
634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
634 - Battle of Namaraq
634 - Battle of Saqatia.
635 - Battle of Bridge.
635 - Battle of Buwaib.
635 - Conquest of Damascus.
635 - Battle of Fahl.
636 - Battle of Yermuk.
636 - Battle of Qadsiyia.
636 - Conquest of Madain.
637 - Battle of Jalula.
638 - Battle of Yarmouk.
638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
641 - Battle of Nihawand
642 - Battle of Ray in Persia
643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
644 - Conquest of Fars
644 - Conquest of Kharan.
644 - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
656 - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
659 - Conquest of Egypt
661 - Ali is murdered.
662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
677 - Siege of Constantinople
687 - Battle of Kufa
691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
711 - Conquest of Spain
713 - Conquest of Multan
716 - Invasion of Constantinople
732 - Battle of Tours in France.
740 - Battle of the Nobles.
741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
748 - Battle of Rayy.
749 - Battle of lsfahan
749 - Battle of Nihawand
750 - Battle of Zab
772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 01:35:56 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 11:28:48 AMThe spread of Islam did not happen at the edge of the sword as you so misleading state everytime this subject comes up.
From Mohammed's return to Medina and threats against the Quraish. To outright slaughter of peaceful hardworking farmers.
Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
Let me tell you the whole story as you dont seem to do that anywhere in this website, half truths and full lies is your style, aimed at misleading as is the trend amongst the scribes and pharisees that do not wish to obey the commands of the Prophets.
Battle of the Trench (Ghazwah al-Khandaq)
In 627, the Quraish (the chief aggressors towards Muhammad) decided to go against the Prophet Muhammad once again, after failing at the battles of Badr and Uhud. The level of duplicity in which Banu Qurayza dealt with these circumstances varies with reports, but whether or not it was responsible for instigating the confrontation between the Quraish and Muhammad or merely betrayed the Prophet they did openly align themselves with the Quraishi campaign . This act of treason was designed to encompass the Muslims in battles on all sides, one that would eventually fail them.
After the siege ended, the Quraish defeated again, Banu Qurayza were left alone to face the Muslims they betrayed (going against virtually every principle outlined within the Covenant of Medina). Forced to surrender, the leader of Banu Qurayza was asked “Will you be satisfied, o Aus, if one of your own number pronounces judgement on them? When they agreed he said that Sa'd b. Mu'adh was the man...Sa'd said, Then I give judgement that the men should be killed, the property divide, and the women and children taken as captives.â€
This incident if often recounted as the mass slaughter of between 800-1000 ‘innocent’ Jews, and is given credence as being documented by a Muslim historian. The events are often twisted and manipulated, however, when one looks deeper it becomes clear that there were extenuating circumstances.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 08:33:15 AM
Perhaps now you can answer my question.
When aggressors attack peaceful people that are minding their own business and then one of the attackers happens to get killed, because one of the innocent people being attacked acts in his own and his family's self-defense, do you believe that makes the dead aggressor a martyr?
You digress,and asking me sit in judgement without the full story, If an Innocent person is killed it is as if you have killed the entire humanity (Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him) Unprovoked attacks is prohibited and the Scripture clearly defines the boundaries of a human being as an individual and in terms of his participation in society and in relation to the rest of humanity.
I am not sure where you heading with this new line but you seem to be avoiding the Story of Samson and Delilah completely since the beginning of this post.
When Christians attack innocent people and one of them die of course they are not martyrs, and aggressor is not a martyr.
Anyone dying in the crusades is obviously not a martyr, there are no unprovoked attacks in Islamic history by the Prophet Muhammad or his companions or those generations that followed him until the end of the khaliphate in 1902 that I am aware of. The spread of Islam did not happen at the edge of the sword as you so misleading state everytime this subject comes up
Did Samson set out to commit suicide, he prayed to GOD TO KILL HIM, You obviously have selected verses to Read from the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT, I deliberately left out the second half of the story to see if you repeat your unfounded misguided question from your own intellect here is the proof he committed suicide
25 While they were in high spirits, they shouted, "Bring out Samson to entertain us." So they called Samson out of the prison, and he performed for them.
When they stood him among the pillars, 26 Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them." 27 Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. 28 Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD, remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." 29 Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, 30 Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.
What astounds me is that you are so hell bent on insulting and telling lies about the most respected, trustworthy and honorable man (MUHAMMAD may ALLAH bestow peace upon him) by any standard and you fail to read your own bible carefully that contains all the murder mayhem incest, suicides, fornicating with prostitutes and stories filled with false charges and accusations against the prophets of GOD by godless politicians that has set out to destroy the LAW OF THE one and only GOD (ALLAH).
It is you that fails to acknowledge the difference even though it was shown to you.
Samson was appointed and strengthened by God to liberate the Israleis from their Philistine oppressors. Samson didn't engage in that responsibility with the goal of suicide. That was a decision he made during the circumstances that presented themselves. Like when a soldier covers an Islamic reprobate's IED with his body, to save his friends from the blast.
Muslim suicide murderers plan their suicide along with their plan to slaughter innocent people.
Mohammed's reprobate imperialistic conquests had the exact opposite goal of Samson's.Rather than the freeing oppressed people by engaging their oppressors,
Mohammed's goal was the subjugation and oppression of people through imperialistic conquest, and bending them to his will, just as Islam's goal still stands today.Just as practiced in Islamic countries today.
Just like the 2 million killed today - in the Sudan alone.
Let alone the terror inflicted through over 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11.
Can you discern the difference between a Christian and a Muslim martyr yet?
An Islamic "suicide martyr" begins with a plan, fully intending to commit suicide, while in the act of murdering innocent people.
Another Islam styled "martyr" dies inadvertently while engaged in imperialistic conquest and slaughter of innocents.
A Christian martyr on the other hand would say "I will die for what I believe in."
An Islamic so-called martyr says "You will die for what I believe in."
Here's a YouTube of examples of a few Christian martyrs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Here's a book full of martyrs "FOX's BOOK of MARTYRS"
http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html
And another "Martyr's Mirror"
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/
As contrasted to this YouTube with the words of a few examples of failed would-be Islamic suicide murderers, and the reward they were seeking in Mohammed's chicken and wine serving bordello (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0) he called "paradise".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 01:58:01 PM
Can you discern the difference between a Christian and a Muslim martyr yet?
An Islamic "suicide martyr" begins with a plan, fully intending to commit suicide, while in the act of murdering innocent people.
Another Islam styled "martyr" dies inadvertently while engaged in imperialistic conquest and slaughter of innocents.
A Christian martyr on the other hand would say "I will die for what I believe in."
An Islamic so-called martyr says "You will die for what I believe in."
Here's a YouTube of examples of a few Christian martyrs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Peter you are so confused by the BIBLE scholars, the media the deviants the terrorists and all those that are dtermined to break every command of GOD ALMIGHTY>
YOU SWING FROM ONE THING TO THE NEXT LIKE A FULL BLOWN ADD SUFFERER>
I am trying to keep you focussed on one thing
Answer my very first question, DO YOU THINK SAMSON IS THE FIRST SUICIDE MATYR?
Here's a book full of martyrs "FOX's BOOK of MARTYRS"
http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html
And another "Martyr's Mirror"
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/
As contrasted to this YouTube with the words of a few examples of failed would-be Islamic suicide murderers, and the reward they were seeking in Mohammed's chicken and wine serving bordello (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0) he called "paradise".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 02:11:05 PM
Peter you are so confused by the BIBLE scholars, the media the deviants the terrorists and all those that are dtermined to break every command of GOD ALMIGHTY>
YOU SWING FROM ONE THING TO THE NEXT LIKE A FULL BLOWN ADD SUFFERER>
I am trying to keep you focussed on one thing
Answer my very first question, DO YOU THINK SAMSON IS THE FIRST SUICIDE MATYR?
It's obvious who can't focus.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7910#msg7910
And once again, thanks for your help. While you will continue to refuse to see the difference between Christian and Islamic martyrs, those Muslim read-only participants whose hearts are beginning to open, should have no difficulty with seeing it. Particularly through the links provided.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 02:16:14 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 02:11:05 PM
Peter you are so confused by the BIBLE scholars, the media the deviants the terrorists and all those that are dtermined to break every command of GOD ALMIGHTY>
YOU SWING FROM ONE THING TO THE NEXT LIKE A FULL BLOWN ADD SUFFERER>
I am trying to keep you focussed on one thing
Answer my very first question, DO YOU THINK SAMSON IS THE FIRST SUICIDE MATYR?
It's obvious who can't focus.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7910#msg7910
And once again, thanks for your help. While you will continue to refuse to see the difference between Christian and Islamic martyrs, those Muslim read-only participants whose hearts are beginning to open, should have no difficulty with seeing it. Particularly through the links provided.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911
WHY WONT YOU ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION? YOU LIKE TO ANSWER ISLAM?
SIMPLY ANSWER THE QUESTION HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE SAMSON IN THE JUDGE OF JUDGES SECTION OF THE BIBLE?
And once again, thanks for your help. While you will continue to refuse to see the difference between Christian and Islamic martyrs, those Muslim read-only participants whose hearts are beginning to open, should have no difficulty with seeing it. Particularly through the links provided.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911
[/quote]
I have not helped you yet, the difference between me and you is that I get my information from ALLAH (Al "the" ielaah GOD) I am not in the habit of asking the media (none religious well atheist based) news readers for my definitions, A matyr is not a suicide bomber that is a political statement invented by the CIA to cause instability in the middle east" ONLY AN IGNORANT FOOL CANNOT FIND THE HISTORY OF PALESTINE and Jerusalem, ONLY AN IDIOT THINKS IRAN AND IRAQ STARTED THE WAR IN 1980, The INFIDELS G:O: D (GOLD OIL AND DOLLAR) FEARING MASSES HAS WAGED WARS AND COINED PHRASES LIKE JIHAAD AND SUICIDE BOMBERS AND EXTREMIST AND THOSE STUPID ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THEM OBVIOUSLY HAS NOT SEEN A GATHERING OF 5 MILLION MUSLIMS IN BAGLADESH (KONI) HAPPEN FOR THREE DAYS, PEACEFULLY, no frenzy, no jihaad calling no mass hysteria, lectures citing the good examples set by all the prophets of ALLAH. WAKE UP MY FRIEND AND TAKE THE SHEKELS FROM YOUR EYES> TAKE THE BEAM OUT IT IS BLINDING YOU
ISLAM CLEARLY DEFINES WHAT A MATYR IS AS IT CLEARLY DEFINES ALL OF THE LAWS AS SENT TO HUMANS>
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 02:28:27 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 02:16:14 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 02:11:05 PM
Peter you are so confused by the BIBLE scholars, the media the deviants the terrorists and all those that are dtermined to break every command of GOD ALMIGHTY>
YOU SWING FROM ONE THING TO THE NEXT LIKE A FULL BLOWN ADD SUFFERER>
I am trying to keep you focussed on one thing
Answer my very first question, DO YOU THINK SAMSON IS THE FIRST SUICIDE MATYR?
It's obvious who can't focus.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7910#msg7910
And once again, thanks for your help. While you will continue to refuse to see the difference between Christian and Islamic martyrs, those Muslim read-only participants whose hearts are beginning to open, should have no difficulty with seeing it. Particularly through the links provided.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911
WHY WONT YOU ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION? YOU LIKE TO ANSWER ISLAM?
SIMPLY ANSWER THE QUESTION HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE SAMSON IN THE JUDGE OF JUDGES SECTION OF THE BIBLE?
I left the two links, to my two prior replies you your question, but you're in such a frenzy you apparently never even stopped long enough to read them.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 02:43:51 PM
ISLAM CLEARLY DEFINES WHAT A MATYR IS AS IT CLEARLY DEFINES ALL OF THE LAWS AS SENT TO HUMANS>
Indeed. According to Islam in practice, a martyr is one who dies inadvertently while murdering innocent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4) people when engaged in imperialistic conquest, or when engaged in terrorist activities.
Following the example of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in the history of the world.
Sura 8:12
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
With an understanding of martyrdom like that, it's no wonder you poor folks have remained so blind to the Gospel, and Jesus Christ sacrificing Himself for you.
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 04:38:06 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 02:43:51 PM
ISLAM CLEARLY DEFINES WHAT A MATYR IS AS IT CLEARLY DEFINES ALL OF THE LAWS AS SENT TO HUMANS>
Indeed. According to Islam in practice, a martyr is one who dies inadvertently while murdering innocent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4) people when engaged in imperialistic conquest, or when engaged in terrorist activities.
Following the example of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in the history of the world.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
With an understanding of martyrdom like that, it's no wonder you poor folks have remained so blind to the Gospel, and Jesus Christ sacrificing Himself for you.
I urge you to remove your brainwash prejudice from this forum if you going to achieve anything, your tactics may work with weak minded irreligious individuals that have no knowledge of the Prophets and the Battles. I am not interested in a list of battles or youtube clips of so called martyrs.
I never spoke in favour of any group to you nor did I try to brainwash you with Islamic fundamentalism, I mere started a discussion and what I get is false rhetoric and a detailed list of your ignorant beliefs. I know what the news readers are saying, I am well aware of the Political Islam that has reared its ugly head since Khomeini came into power in Iran, ushering in a political Islamic trend.
Is this a political discussion or a religious discussion because you seem to confuse the issues. The politics of pagan and Islamic Arabia is of no consequence or importance and is only important to war mongering disbelievers. Are thought that you were a religious debater not a political debater. Your posts has very little to do with LOVE< FAITH<CHARITY>BELIEF IN GOD>SPIRITUALITY> OR EVEN REMOTELY DISCUSSING AN ISSUE LIKE SAMSON
THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE HERE TO SLANDER OTHER HUMAN BEINGS AND NOT INTERESTED IN THEIR OR YOUR OWN SALVATION.
DISCUSS SAMSON JUST ONCE< NO LINKS, NO COPYING AND PASTING< NO BEAST AND MONSTER FICTION STORIES OR ARCHEOLOGICAL DELUSIONS< D
DISCUSS THE TOPIC AT HAND
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 21, 2010, 02:50:58 AM
Your posts has very little to do with LOVE< FAITH<CHARITY>BELIEF IN GOD>SPIRITUALITY>
My friend, in one of your first posts you expressed the following of your former Islamic brothers and sisters, who have come to know the love of the one true God, through Jesus Christ.
"These videos lack inspiration,
they are sad stories of obviously GOD_less individuals that came from nothing and are now reading the Bible (well at least it is the first step)."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1900.0
When someone displays that level of hardness of heart on arrival I have found it's best to be direct with them. I admit that my own heart has become somewhat hardened from being exposed to the constant blasphemy of Muslims against Jesus Christ.
My approach is somewhat different for Muslims who are genuinely seeking the truth, as in these examples.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=707.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1860.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 21, 2010, 02:50:58 AM
DISCUSS SAMSON JUST ONCE< NO LINKS, NO COPYING AND PASTING< NO BEAST AND MONSTER FICTION STORIES OR ARCHEOLOGICAL DELUSIONS< D
DISCUSS THE TOPIC AT HAND
Why would you insist on me wasting my time repeating what I have already written? The links go to my prior posts, that answered your question, that you keep pretending I didn't post.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7927#msg7927
But I would recommend you quit wasting time on Samson when you have far more important and fundamental issues to come to terms with.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1900.msg7946#msg7946
(particularly since your Mohammedan understanding of martyrdom is the opposite (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911) of what martyrdom is)
And links I provide aren't for your benefit as much as those read-only participants that are genuinely seeking truth.
Quote from: Peter on October 21, 2010, 12:14:32 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 21, 2010, 02:50:58 AM
DISCUSS SAMSON JUST ONCE< NO LINKS, NO COPYING AND PASTING< NO BEAST AND MONSTER FICTION STORIES OR ARCHEOLOGICAL DELUSIONS< D
DISCUSS THE TOPIC AT HAND
Why would you insist on me wasting my time repeating what I have already written? The links go to my prior posts, that answered your question, that you keep pretending I didn't post.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7927#msg7927
But I would recommend you quit wasting time on Samson when you have far more important and fundamental issues
to come to terms with.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1900.msg7946#msg7946
(particularly since your Mohammedan understanding of martyrdom is the opposite (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911) of what martyrdom is)
And links I provide aren't for your benefit as much as those read-only participants that are genuinely seeking truth.
A "Shaheed", is a specific term, used in the Holy Quran and Sunnah. It has certainly a specific meaning and one should be careful before applying this term to a person and you should ascertain whether he is really qualified to be called a "Shaheed."
According to Islamic Jurisprudence, "Shaheed" is of two kinds:
Shaheed in the real sense.
Shaheed in the constructive sense.
Shaheed in the real sense is a Muslim who has been killed during "Jihad" or has been killed by any person unjustly. Such a person has two characteristics different from common people who die on their bed. Firstly, he should be buried without giving him a ritual bath. However, the prayer of the Janazah shall be offered on him and he shall also be given a proper kafin (burial shroud). Secondly, he will deserve a great reward in the Hereafter and it is hoped that Allah Almighty shall forgive his sins and admit him to Jannah. It is also stated in some of the traditions that the body of such a person remains in the grave protected from contamination or dissolution.
As compared to this kind of "Shaheed" a Shaheed in a constructive sense is a person who has been promised by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam to get a reward of a Shaheed in the Hereafter but is not taken as Shaheed with regard to the rules of burial. It means that the dead body has to be bathed like a dead body of any other person. The Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam has included in this category of Shaheed a large number of persons such as a person who has died in a Plague or who has died in an unexpected accident, like a fire or a traffic accident or who has been drowned in the water or a woman who has died during the delivery of her child etc.
Allama Jalaluddin Suyuti, a well-known scholar of Islamic disciplines, has collected all the Hadiths relating to this kind of Shaheed and has come to the conclusion that there are thirty categories mentioned by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam who can deserve to be called Shaheed in this sense. But in the normal course, the word "Shaheed" is applied only for the first kind. However, it is not prohibited to use the word for a person who falls in any of the categories mentioned in the second kind.
It is evident from the above discussion that the word "Shaheed" can only be used for a Muslim and cannot be applied to a non-Muslim at all. Similarly, the term cannot be used for a person who has been rightly killed as a punishment of his own offence.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 21, 2010, 04:33:46 PM
Shaheed in the real sense is a Muslim who has been killed during "Jihad" .....
Indeed!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911
Yet your own prophet, after having sent thousands to their deaths to advance his self-serving cult, died in a whimper in bed through the effects of a prior poisoning.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=949.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=287.0
Yet your own prophet, after having sent thousands to their deaths to advance his self-serving cult, died in a whimper in bed through the effects of a prior poisoning.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=949.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=287.0
[/quote]
Here is the Quran's advice to you, lets start with the basics the topics you dont understand I will explain to you later
005.040 Knowest thou not that to God (alone) belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punisheth whom He pleaseth, and He forgiveth whom He pleaseth: and God hath power over all things.
005.041 O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.
005.042 (They are fond of) listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden. If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere. If thou decline, they cannot hurt thee in the least. If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For God loveth those who judge in equity.
005.043 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
005.044 It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
005.045 We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
005.046 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.
005.047 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
005.048 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an Open Way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
005.049 And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which God hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is God's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.
005.050 Do they then seek after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than God?
005.051 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.
005.052 Those in whose hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying: "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps God will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts.
005.053 And those who believe will say: "Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by God, that they were with you?" All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin.
005.054 O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will God produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of God, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of God, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And God encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.
005.055 Your (real) friends are (no less than) God, His Apostle, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
005.056 As to those who turn (for friendship) to God, His Apostle, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of God that must certainly triumph.
005.057 O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye God, if ye have faith (indeed).
005.058 When ye proclaim your call to prayer they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because they are a people without understanding.
005.059 Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in God, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"
005.060 Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from God? Those who incurred the curse of God and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even Path!"
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 20, 2010, 01:35:56 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 20, 2010, 11:28:48 AMThe spread of Islam did not happen at the edge of the sword as you so misleading state everytime this subject comes up.
From Mohammed's return to Medina and threats against the Quraish. To outright slaughter of peaceful hardworking farmers.
Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
Let me tell you the whole story as you dont seem to do that anywhere in this website, half truths and full lies is your style, aimed at misleading as is the trend amongst the scribes and pharisees that do not wish to obey the commands of the Prophets.
Battle of the Trench (Ghazwah al-Khandaq)
In 627, the Quraish (the chief aggressors towards Muhammad) decided to go against the Prophet Muhammad once again, after failing at the battles of Badr and Uhud. The level of duplicity in which Banu Qurayza dealt with these circumstances varies with reports, but whether or not it was responsible for instigating the confrontation between the Quraish and Muhammad or merely betrayed the Prophet they did openly align themselves with the Quraishi campaign . This act of treason was designed to encompass the Muslims in battles on all sides, one that would eventually fail them.
After the siege ended, the Quraish defeated again, Banu Qurayza were left alone to face the Muslims they betrayed (going against virtually every principle outlined within the Covenant of Medina). Forced to surrender, the leader of Banu Qurayza was asked “Will you be satisfied, o Aus, if one of your own number pronounces judgement on them? When they agreed he said that Sa'd b. Mu'adh was the man...Sa'd said, Then I give judgement that the men should be killed, the property divide, and the women and children taken as captives.â€
This incident if often recounted as the mass slaughter of between 800-1000 ‘innocent’ Jews, and is given credence as being documented by a Muslim historian. The events are often twisted and manipulated, however, when one looks deeper it becomes clear that there were extenuating circumstances.
My friend, why would you quote the Quran when you have been shown that it is nothing more than a bunch of 7th century unhistorical nonsense? You don't have to quote the STAND-ALONE rantings, of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate murderous thief, for us to be able to see Mohammed's heart in you.
We could see that way back in the quoted post above when you mentioned the "extenuating circumstances", that could somehow justify Mohammed's having had 800-1000 hard working, farm tending, boys and men from 10 years old and up, brought before him and beheaded over trenches. Then he and his boys raped and pressed their wives and daughters into sexual slavery, while stealing their property, and selling off their children and old women into slavery. The proceeds of which, of course, were used to finance swords and camels so they could go on to murder, rape, and steal more people's property. With Mohammed receiving a 1/5 share of the stolen goods - just like a Mafia Don.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=608.0
I am sure my frustration has increasingly shown in my posts. That's because I am desperate for you my friend. If you ask Jesus to come into your life He will give you a new heart, and put His law in your inward parts, just like Jeremiah prophesied of the new covenant, during the old covenant.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0
We could see that way back in the quoted post above when you mentioned the "extenuating circumstances", that could somehow justify Mohammed's having had 800-1000 hard working, farm tending, boys and men from 10 years old and up, brought before him and beheaded over trenches. Then he and his boys raped and pressed their wives and daughters into sexual slavery, while stealing their property, and selling off their children and old women into slavery. The proceeds of which, of course, were used to finance swords and camels so they could go on to murder, rape, and steal more people's property. With Mohammed receiving a 1/5 share of the stolen goods just like a Mafia Don.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=608.0
I am sure my frustration has increasingly shown in my posts. That's because I am desperate for you my friend. If you ask Jesus to come into your life He will give you a new heart, and put His law in your inward parts, just like Jeremiah prophesied of the new covenant, during the old covenant.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0
[/quote]
I am starting realise where your delusions come from, a classic case of Satanic Pride and ignorance, saying one thing and doing the complete opposite. I believe in One GOD, but wait that God is three parts but a whole, actually he begets a son but the son is god bot the god ddi not die the son died for sins of the world, so no more war, no more killing like samson, all the years of Prophets and scripture must be denied as the law is now a natural law of a the spirit which we will call the holy spirit, (SPIRIT OR JINN OR DEMON OR SATAN?) WHO ARE YOU FOLLOWING JESUS WHO ASKED YOU NOT TO LEAVE OUT EVEN A DOT ON A LETTER OF THE LAW OR JINN/SPIRIT OR HOLY GHOST?
THIS IS THE REAL WORLD< THE TOPIC I CHOSE (SAMSON THE FIRST SUICIDE Martyr/Soldier) IS THE PROOF OF HOW THE GOD OF THIS WORLD IS LETTING US LIVE AND DEAL WITH ONE ANOTHER, THE ESSENCE AND TRUTH OF WHAT SCRIPTURE IS ABOUT. GOD IS NOT DELUSIONAL AND THINK THAT ALL MEN WILL ACCEPT THE TRUTH< THERE ARE THOSE THAT WILL OPPOSE THE TRUTH. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO WHEN YOU SMACKED WITH A Russion AK 47 turn the other cheek or ask your government to wage war on them?
JESUS IS PART THAT BALANCE< THE KILLING DID NOT STOP IN ISRAEL, THE JEWS ARE TO THIS DAY KILLING HUMAN BEINGS AND YOU WILL PROBABLY JUSTIFY THEIR KILLING AND DISPLACEMENT OF THE INHABITANTS< LOOK AT THE SITUATION TODAY AND BECOME DISGUSTED< DO NOT TRY TO UNDERSTAND OR BE DISSATISFIED WITH THE DECREE OF GOD
YOUR FRUSTRATION IS THE SAME AS THAT OF SATANS WITH THE MUSLIMS, SATAN HATES IT WHEN MANKIND FOLLOWS THE COMMANDMENTS AND PROPHETS OF ALLAH>
To our Muslim read-only participant friends, can you see the fruit of a heart that is consumed and driven by the spirit of antichrist?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=884.msg7943#msg7943
You no longer need to wonder how some Muslims wind up thinking their way into strapping on bombs and blowing themselves up in a bus-load of Jewish school children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911
Did Samson make a plan to commit suicide while murdering innocent people? Of course not.
God strengthened him and assigned him the task of liberating the Israelites from the oppression of the Philistines.
Is it ever wrong to come to the defense of the defenseless?
That's the exact opposite of Islamic imperialistic conquest, subjugation, and oppression.
Samson's decision to pull the pillars down was made at the moment, like when a self-sacrificing soldier covers a grenade with his body to save his friends, not by intent of suicide through a prior plan.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
Yet we see this poor satanically consumed - true follower of Mohammed - twisting the account to lionize Islamic suicide murderers.
Besides that, by the time Mohammed came along about 1500 years had passed, from the time that any Old Testament prophets picked up a sword, or suggested the use of a sword in God's service.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0
But just as Mohammed had done in Arabia, Islam raped, pillaged, and plundered its way in imperialistic conquest, through nearly the whole known world during the first Islamic jihad, until being stopped in France and Austria.
Godless Muslims in this second Islamic jihad - besides killing over 2 million in the Sudan alone - are responsible for over 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11. That's because Mohammed's true followers emulate the behavior of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in the history of the world.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
The poor fellow is so deluded through his indoctrination into Mohammed's - demonstrably unhistorical (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0) - religion, that he actually foolishly believes that Muslims keep the law - even as he champions suicide murder. But keeping the law today is an impossibility, even for Jews that live in Israel - which is essential in order to keep a good bit of the law - who cannot possibly keep more than about 1/3 of the law. Muslims don't even keep the Sabbath!
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1424.msg7991#msg7991
I think a new thread is in order to explore what kind of a job Mohammed did in even keeping the 10 commandments.
Now compare Mujaheed's suggestions of the law and suicide murder, with how the law is summarized, under the new covenant.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
These last two posts provide excellent summaries of our two perspectives. Mujaheed, I do want to thank you for providing such a good example, for Muslim read-only participants to this forum that are genuinely seeking the truth.
No need to for us to beat a dead horse or go in yet another circle. Everything posted on this thread from this point on, will be split off of this topic and moved to the "Extensions of Chats" category.
Quote from: Peter on October 23, 2010, 06:30:16 AM
To our Muslim read-only participant friends, can you see the fruit of a heart that is consumed and driven by the spirit of antichrist?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=884.msg7943#msg7943
You no longer need to wonder how some Muslims wind up thinking their way into strapping on bombs and blowing themselves up in a bus-load of Jewish school children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911
Did Samson make a plan to commit suicide while murdering innocent people? Of course not.
God strengthened him and assigned him the task of liberating the Israelites from the oppression of the Philistines.
Is it ever wrong to come to the defense of the defenseless?
That's the exact opposite of Islamic imperialistic conquest, subjugation, and oppression.
Samson's decision to pull the pillars down was made at the moment, like when a self-sacrificing soldier covers a grenade with his body to save his friends, not by intent of suicide through a prior plan.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
Yet we see this poor satanically consumed - true follower of Mohammed - twisting the account to lionize Islamic suicide murderers.
No need to for us to beat a dead horse or go in yet another circle. Everything posted on this thread from this point on, will be split off of this topic and moved to the "Extensions of Chats" category.
AS EVERYONE CAN SEE< SPECULATION AND CONJECTURE< FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND NOTHING BUT PERTERS OWN OPINION REGARDING HIS OWN BIBLE VERSES< SAMSON PRAYED TO THE LORD TO DIE BEFORE HE DID WHAT HE DID WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT? INTENT<
PETER THEN GOES ON TO COMPARE A PERSON OF GOD TO A POLITICAL SUICIDE BOMBER AND I NEVER SAID I CONDONE SUCH ACTIONS PETER ASSUMED THAT AND IT IS OBVIOUS THAT HE IS PREJUDICED NAD CANNOT KEEP AN OPEN MIND< ATTACKING MY CHARACTER DOES YOU KNOW GOOD IT REVEALS THE CONDITION OF YOUR HEART TOWARDS HUMANITY< A FAR CRY FROM JESUS
A THREAT TO SPLIT MY POSTS AFTER ONE LINE OF YOURS THAT HAS NO BASIS IN SCRIPTURE? WHAT AN ARROGANT MAN YOU ARE.
THIS IS A CHAT THAT YOU ARE ARE UNWILLING TO ENTER INTO< INSTEAD YOU GO AROUND IN CIRCLES WITH THE SAME FALSE RHETORIC AND IGNORANT ASSUMPTIONS REGARDING ISLAM NAD MUSLIMS. WHY DONT YOU ASK ME WHAT I BELIEVE.
This thread is open again because of your repeated false accusations as detailed here.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1905.msg8021#msg8021
Please quote and this time answer, this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872
Then this post
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
Do not post in other threads before we exhaust the topics that you are currently engaged in.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1905.msg8021#msg8021
Mohammed prevented you from understanding what martyrdom is. That's why we first have to have an understanding of martyrdom before we can judge your premise.
1. Let's say that someone broke into your house during a home invasion. Let's say the perpetrator killed you, and then raped your wife, and then he grabbed your life savings out of your drawer.
But on his way to the door your wife was able to get to a gun and shoot him.
Would that make the perpetrator a martyr?
2. Now let's say you heard a gun shot from next door. You ran over to find your neighbor dead, and his murderer was about to rape his wife. Even though you knew the guy had a gun, you jumped the guy anyway in an effort to save the woman from being raped, but the perpetrator shot and killed you. Would that selfless sacrifice of yourself constitute martyrdom?
Quote from: Peter on October 24, 2010, 09:05:19 AM
Mohammed prevented you from understanding what martyrdom is. That's why we first have to have an understanding of martyrdom before we can judge your premise.
1. Let's say that someone broke into your house during a home invasion. Let's say the perpetrator killed you, and then raped your wife, and then he grabbed your life savings out of your drawer.
But on his way to the door your wife was able to get to a gun and shoot him.
Would that make the perpetrator a martyr?
2. Now let's say you heard a gun shot from next door. You ran over to find your neighbor dead, and his murderer was about to rape his wife. Even though you knew the guy had a gun, you jumped the guy anyway in an effort to save the woman from being raped, but the perpetrator shot and killed you. Would that selfless sacrifice of yourself constitute martyrdom?
THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD MADE IT VERY CLEAR AS TO WHAT CONSTITUTES MARTYRDOM< YOU CHOSE TO IGNORE MY POST ON THE HADITH COVERING A MARTYR AND AS IS YOUR STYLE I AM SUBJECTED TO THE LIMITED INTELLECT OF A MAN THAT HAS NO INTEREST IN SCRIPTURE!
BRING ME THE CHRISTIAN DEFINITION OF A MARTYR ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE VERSES AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO COMPARE IT WITH THE QURAN AND HADITH OF THE PROPHET>
STOP BEING A SPECULATOR TRYING TO SUBJECT EVRYONE TO YOUR HYPOTHETICAL ILLUSIONS OF KNOWING SOMETHING EVERYONE ELSE DOES NOT!
PETER please I urge you to turn to the revealed scripture for your guidance, not your opinion, my opinion he self appointed experts with nothing but opinion, your salvation depends on it.
YOUR HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION IS ONE GOD SHOULD ANSWER< MY SHORT ANSWER IS THAT ANYONE KILLED UNJUSTLY OR PREMATURELY< EXCEPT WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE (SUICIDE) IS CONSIDERED A MARTYR. UNJUSTLY IS WHEN YOU ARE INVADED BY AN ENEMY< WHEN AN ENEMY TO ALLAH THREATENS TO KILL A BELIEVER IN WAR ON A BATTLEFIELD. TRAITORS ARE NOT MARTYRS< DISBELIEVERS CANNOT BE GIVEN A REWARD THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN>
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 24, 2010, 09:14:30 AM
UNJUSTLY IS WHEN YOU ARE INVADED BY AN ENEMY< WHEN AN ENEMY TO ALLAH THREATENS TO KILL A BELIEVER IN WAR ON A BATTLEFIELD. TRAITORS ARE NOT MARTYRS< DISBELIEVERS CANNOT BE GIVEN A REWARD THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN>
So then none of the Islamic soldiers killed during Mohammed's
imperialistic conquest of Arabia, or those killed in the
First Islamic Jihad imperialistic conquest all the way up to France and Austria, were martyrs.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 24, 2010, 09:14:30 AMYOUR HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION IS ONE GOD SHOULD ANSWER< MY SHORT ANSWER IS THAT ANYONE KILLED UNJUSTLY OR PREMATURELY< EXCEPT WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE (SUICIDE) IS CONSIDERED A MARTYR.
Then that would make those that were attacked by Islam's
imperialistic conquest, from Mecca all the way up to France and Austria, that died trying to defend their communities, families, property and freedom from Islamic invaders, martyrs.
Quote from: Peter on October 24, 2010, 09:16:51 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 24, 2010, 09:14:30 AM
UNJUSTLY IS WHEN YOU ARE INVADED BY AN ENEMY< WHEN AN ENEMY TO ALLAH THREATENS TO KILL A BELIEVER IN WAR ON A BATTLEFIELD. TRAITORS ARE NOT MARTYRS< DISBELIEVERS CANNOT BE GIVEN A REWARD THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN>
So then none of the Islamic soldiers killed during Mohammed's imperialistic conquest of Arabia, or those killed in the First Islamic Jihad imperialistic conquest all the way up to France and Austria, were martyrs.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 24, 2010, 09:14:30 AMYOUR HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION IS ONE GOD SHOULD ANSWER< MY SHORT ANSWER IS THAT ANYONE KILLED UNJUSTLY OR PREMATURELY< EXCEPT WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE (SUICIDE) IS CONSIDERED A MARTYR.
Then that would make those that were attacked by Islam's imperialistic conquest, from Mecca all the way up to France and Austria, that died trying to defend their communities, families, property and freedom from Islamic invaders, martyrs.
YOU ARE TRULY DEVOID OF UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE AND ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS YOUR OWN OPINION> FROM THE ENEMY OF GOD PERSPECTIVE< THE PROPHETS ARE THE ENEMIES, SO ALL THE PROPHETS OF GOD EXCEPT ACCORDING TO YOUR BIASE MUHAMMAD IS JUSTIFIED IN KILLING THE ENEMIES OF GOD. HOW A PREPOSTEROUS NOTION. YOU OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THOSE THAT HAVE ALWAYS OPPOSED THE TRUTH, YOU ARE ONE THE SIDE OF THOSE THAT REBEL AGAINST THE TRUTH OF GOD!
ISLAM HAS ALWAYS HAD ENEMIES AS THE BIBLE TESTIFIES< (ISLAM _MEANS THE WILL OF THE GOD (AL_THE IELAAH GOD) WHAT YOU SAYING IS THAT NO PROPHET BEFORE MUHAMMAD KILLED ANYONE? ARE YOU DELUSIONAL, THERE ARE NO ARMIES OF GOD? NO SOLDIERS OF GOD? NONE THE WORDS APPEAR IN YOUR VERSION OF THE BIBLE? THERE WAS NO DAVID AND GOLIATH AND KILLING IN THE BIBLE IS DIFFERENT TO THE KILLING IN THE QURAN?
YOU ARE READING THE BIBLE AS IF YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO OTHER PEOPLE (THE CREATION OF GOD) THAT IS WHAT SATAN THINKS AND MAINTAINS OVER MAN, THAT IS ALSO WHY HE IS CURSED FOR HIS REBELLIOUS NATURE!
I DONT SEE THE PROPHETS AS BELONGING TO A CERTAIN GROUP OR SEPARATE FROM ONE ANOTHER, THEY ARE FROM GOD SENT AS AN EXAMPLE TO MANKIND< MUHAMMAD CAME TO MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR: HE CAME TO SHOW PRACTICALLY WHAT ALL THE PROPHETS BEFORE CAME WITH> WHEN MUHAMMAD CAME IT WAS TIME FOR ALLAH TO BE MADE KNOWN TO THE ENTIRE HUMANITY NOT JUST A RACE THAT CONSIDERED THEMSELVES TO BE CHOSEN OR SAVED< THOSE THAT OPPOSED THIS NOTION CHOSE TO TAKE UP ARMS AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. MUSLIMS ONLY DECLARED WAR WHEN THE LEADERS DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY ARE CLEARLY THE ENEMY OF GOD AND REFUSES TO ALLOW THEIR PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE THE WORD OF GOD> THERE IS NO ARMY OF MUSLIMS AT THE MOMENT AND ALL ATTACKS OUTSIDE OF THE NATION AT WAR WITHIN THEIR COUNTRY IS UNJUSTIFIED.
NOW BEFORE YOU GO OFF ABOUT ISLAMIC COUNTRIES NOT ALLOWING OTHER RELIGIONS, I URGE YOU TO SPEAK TO OVER 200 000 JEWS IN IRAN AND MOROCCO AND SYRIA AND MANY ISLAMIC COUNTRIES. BAHRAIN HAS BUILT CHURCHES FOR CHRISTIANS IN DOHA, QATAR, DUBAI AND ALL OVER THE GULF AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RAISE FUNDS AS THE GOVT WILL PROVIDE FOR ANY OF THEIR NEEDS.
The Islamic countries also have serious problems stemming from widespread ignorance about Islam, but we should not get side tracked into political discussions, let our focus be true belief in GOD first.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 25, 2010, 03:54:48 AM
The Islamic countries also have serious problems stemming from widespread ignorance about Islam, but we should not get side tracked into political discussions, let our focus be true belief in GOD first.
The west is the only place where there is ignorance about Mohammedanism, as you aptly demonstrate. The terrorists bred in the cradle of Mohammed's religion, are the
true Muslims, that follow in the footsteps of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in world history.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0
The ignorance is understandable in 3rd world countries, and prisons, where Mohammedanism flourishes among the illiterate. Ignorance such as yours in the west, is self-imposed and inexcusable. All can see that following Mohammed made it so that you can't even admit to what a martyr is.
Quote from: Peter on October 25, 2010, 09:24:14 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 25, 2010, 03:54:48 AM
The Islamic countries also have serious problems stemming from widespread ignorance about Islam, but we should not get side tracked into political discussions, let our focus be true belief in GOD first.
The west is the only place where there is ignorance about Mohammedanism, as you aptly demonstrate. The terrorists bred in the cradle of Mohammed's religion, are the true Muslims, that follow in the footsteps of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in world history.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0
The ignorance is understandable in 3rd world countries, and prisons, where Mohammedanism flourishes among the illiterate. Ignorance such as yours in the west, is self-imposed and inexcusable. All can see that following Mohammed made it so that you can't even admit to what a martyr is.
I GAVE YOU THE DEFINITION AND HADITH OF A MARTYR. I TRY NOT TO FOLLOW YOUR EXAMPLE, FORMULATE OPINIONS ABOUT MATTERS THAT BELONG TO GOD!
YOUR DEFINITION OF A MARTYR IS MEANINGLESS< YOUR VIEW OF A MARTYR AS IS ANY INDIVIDUAL, THE DEFINITION IS FOR YOUR OWN INTENTIONS< TO ENSURE THAT I MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS For My own Life. NOT FOR US TO SPECULATE ON WHO DIED AS A MARTYR OR WHO DID NOT, THAT IS FOR GOD TO DECIDE.
I was content to leave this thread with Mujaheed's self-contradiction, wherein by his own definition that he cited just 5 posts above, discussed in the following link, it is obvious that Muslim imperialistic conquering murderers can only be described as
murderers, not martyrs even by his own standard.http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg8030#msg8030
Then in post after post in on other threads in this forum, he lied about my not replying to this thread.
Then today, after having earlier ignored reply after reply of mine on this thread, and ignoring my repeated prodding in this thread to revisit the replies that he ignored from the very first page of this thread, he had the unmitigated gall to PM me the following.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 02:56:44 AM
Dear Peter
I wuold like to point out that I respect your loyalty to your own version of reality, but your lack of knowledge of Islam is a huge hunderance in our discussions as you get stuck on out of context verses with no room for someone to explain it to you.
With respect, I am hardly a ducker and dodger, but it's ironical as I feel exactly the same way about you. IN FACT MY QUESTION IS: ARE YOU GOING TO STEER ALL THE POSTS IN ONE DIRECTION ONLY AND NOT ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS, LIKE THE SAMSON POST NOW SHUT DOWN BY YOU WHEN HAVE NO ANSWERS?
Hardly a discussion if you do that.
To which I replied in PM then posted here
_______________________
The Samson post is not shut down. It is moved to a more appropriate category. It was unrelated to the category it was in.
Why would you lie when the record shows otherwise? You ignored my early effort to explore your premises in my first reply by discussing the difference between Muslim "martyrs" and Christian martyrs.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7852#msg7852
You continued throughout the thread ignoring my probing in that regard because you falsely believe that a person accidentally killed while in the act of imperialistic conquest and slaughter of others is a martyr. THEY ARE NOT. They are MURDERERS.
You did not respond to the post regarding fixing your quotes. You continued on to ignore it for another 200 posts.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7864#msg7864
Nor did you respond to my question in the next post,
regarding whether Samson set out in the morning with the intent of suicide, yet I prodded you over and over to do so. My effort was to distinguish
the difference between suicide (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,25658,26637,26767,27050,27356,27360,27404,27446&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=suicide&cp=7&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=suicide&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=6e8733203d1b4e27) and self-sacrifice (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=self+sacrifice&aq=0&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=self+sacrif&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=6e8733203d1b4e27).http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872
It was you that ignored my replies.
_______________________
If you choose to reply to this begin by stating whether you can understand the difference between suicide (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,25658,26637,26767,27050,27356,27360,27404,27446&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=suicide&cp=7&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=suicide&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=6e8733203d1b4e27) and self-sacrifice (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=self+sacrifice&aq=0&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=self+sacrif&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=1&cad=b).
From his following PM http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2015.msg8507#msg8507
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 06:02:29 AM
I will try to track it as it is no longer under the heading i created.
But as everyone can see the title you created remains the same and is confirmed in the title of post after post, after the initial post. It was moved to this general category because it was unrelated to "The Love of God as Revealed Through the Word" category, that you should never have posted it in, in the first place.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 06:02:29 AMI wa not discussing the difference between a Muslim martyr and a Christian martyr as it becomes a matter of you stating your opinion and not fact, we differ in that I recognise all men that sacrifice their LIVES for the sake of THE GOD (ALLAH) .......
Thank you for again offering excellent insight into the mind of modern Muslim jihad murderers, as you have in so many other threads. A mind in the mold of those of the Islamic first jihad, and the mind of the murderous false prophet Mohammed himself. The so-called "Sacrifice" of inadvertently dying WHILE IN THE ACT OF MURDERING OTHERS while engaged in imperialistic conquest "for the sake of" Mohammed's alter ego "Allah" (Satan).
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 06:02:29 AM........ as martyrs throughout history from SAMSON to anyone that is killed by a foriegner on his soil while protecting his home.
Exactly! Like those who sacrificed themselves, while valiantly defending their families, property, community and country, from the murderous onslaught of the first Islamic jihad. From Mecca, all the way up to France and Austria, as already mentioned in this post.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg8030#msg8030
Like those among the over 2 million killed while protecting their own - in the Sudan alone - during this second Islamic jihad.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 06:02:29 AMYou however have a different opinion not based on belief but conjecture according to your limited intellect. The discussion is around SAMSON not modern day political views of a narrow minded bigot.
I will not respond to absurd questions, intent was proven by Samson, who used the opportunity according the OT version as and opportunity to kill people, (disbelievers) and prayed for his own death. as clearly stated in the Bible, your absurd speculation about did he set out is irrelevant and totally trying to divert the story towards speculation. HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY GUESS INTENT OF SAMSON? UNLESS YOU GOING TO USE CONJECTURE ONCE AGAIN. HE WAS NOT AWARE OF THE OPPORTUNITY UNTIL IT WAS PRESENTED TO HIM , .....
Exactly.
That was my point early on that you repeatedly failed to address. He didn't set out on a suicide mission.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872
And as I pointed out in other threads, Samson's spontaneous reaction is akin to the self-sacrifice of a brave modern day soldier, that throws himself on a reprobate's IED, in order to save his fellow soldiers that are accompanying him.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 06:02:29 AM..... THEN HE FORMED THE INTENT TO KILL AND DIE!!!!
He reacted to the circumstances that were presented to him with self-sacrifice.
This provided an excellent conclusion and final presentation of our two views. Particularly highlighting your inability to understand
the difference between suicide (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,25658,26637,26767,27050,27356,27360,27404,27446&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=suicide&cp=7&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=suicide&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=6e8733203d1b4e27) and self-sacrifice (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=self+sacrifice&aq=0&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=self+sacrif&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=1&cad=b).No need to dither on even more. You did a more than thorough job of presenting your view.
Posts of further discussion with Mujaheed will be moved to the chat extension thread at the following link. Anyone so inclined is welcome continue to go in circles and further beat this dead horse with him there.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1902.0
Others that may think of a point that was missed, or with comments on the material already posted, are welcome to quote and post in
reply to any post in this thread, on this thread.
DO NOT, however, begin a discussion about Mujaheed, but rather stick to the content of the posts.