Author Topic: Re: The first Suicide Soldier  (Read 30846 times)

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2010, 04:36:10 PM »
Peter you are so confused by the BIBLE scholars, the media the deviants the terrorists and all those that are dtermined to break every command of GOD ALMIGHTY>
YOU SWING FROM ONE THING TO THE NEXT LIKE A FULL BLOWN ADD SUFFERER>
I am trying to keep you focussed on one thing

Answer my very first question, DO YOU THINK SAMSON IS THE FIRST SUICIDE MATYR?

It's obvious who can't focus.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7910#msg7910

And once again, thanks for your help. While you will continue to refuse to see the difference between Christian and Islamic martyrs, those Muslim read-only participants whose hearts are beginning to open, should have no difficulty with seeing it. Particularly through the links provided.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911

WHY WONT YOU ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION? YOU LIKE TO ANSWER ISLAM?
SIMPLY ANSWER THE QUESTION HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE SAMSON IN THE JUDGE OF JUDGES SECTION OF THE BIBLE?

I left the two links, to my two prior replies you your question, but you're in such a frenzy you apparently never even stopped long enough to read them.

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2010, 04:38:06 PM »
ISLAM CLEARLY DEFINES WHAT A MATYR IS AS IT CLEARLY DEFINES ALL OF THE LAWS AS SENT TO HUMANS>

Indeed. According to Islam in practice, a martyr is one who dies inadvertently while murdering innocent people when engaged in imperialistic conquest, or when engaged in terrorist activities.
Following the example of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in the history of the world.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

With an understanding of martyrdom like that, it's no wonder you poor folks have remained so blind to the Gospel, and Jesus Christ sacrificing Himself for you.

Mujaheed

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2010, 02:50:58 AM »
ISLAM CLEARLY DEFINES WHAT A MATYR IS AS IT CLEARLY DEFINES ALL OF THE LAWS AS SENT TO HUMANS>

Indeed. According to Islam in practice, a martyr is one who dies inadvertently while murdering innocent people when engaged in imperialistic conquest, or when engaged in terrorist activities.
Following the example of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in the history of the world.
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

With an understanding of martyrdom like that, it's no wonder you poor folks have remained so blind to the Gospel, and Jesus Christ sacrificing Himself for you.

I urge you to remove your brainwash prejudice from this forum if you going to achieve anything, your tactics may work with weak minded irreligious individuals that have no knowledge of the Prophets and the Battles. I am not interested in a list of battles or youtube clips of so called martyrs.
I never spoke in favour of any group to you nor did I try to brainwash you with Islamic fundamentalism, I mere started a discussion and what I get is false rhetoric and a detailed list of your ignorant beliefs. I know what the news readers are saying, I am well aware of the Political Islam that has reared its ugly head since Khomeini came into power in Iran, ushering in a political Islamic trend.

Is this a political discussion or a religious discussion because you seem to confuse the issues. The politics of pagan and Islamic Arabia is of no consequence or importance and is only important to war mongering disbelievers. Are thought that you were a religious debater not a political debater. Your posts has very little to do with LOVE< FAITH<CHARITY>BELIEF IN GOD>SPIRITUALITY> OR EVEN REMOTELY DISCUSSING AN ISSUE LIKE SAMSON
THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE HERE TO SLANDER OTHER HUMAN BEINGS AND NOT INTERESTED IN THEIR OR YOUR OWN SALVATION.

DISCUSS SAMSON JUST ONCE< NO LINKS, NO COPYING AND PASTING< NO BEAST AND MONSTER FICTION STORIES OR ARCHEOLOGICAL DELUSIONS< D

DISCUSS THE TOPIC AT HAND

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2010, 06:26:59 AM »
Your posts has very little to do with LOVE< FAITH<CHARITY>BELIEF IN GOD>SPIRITUALITY>

My friend, in one of your first posts you expressed the following of your former Islamic brothers and sisters, who have come to know the love of the one true God, through Jesus Christ.

"These videos lack inspiration, they are sad stories of obviously GOD_less individuals that came from nothing and are now reading the Bible (well at least it is the first step)."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1900.0

When someone displays that level of hardness of heart on arrival I have found it's best to be direct with them. I admit that my own heart has become somewhat hardened from being exposed to the constant blasphemy of Muslims against Jesus Christ.
My approach is somewhat different for Muslims who are genuinely seeking the truth, as in these examples.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=707.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1860.0


Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2010, 12:14:32 PM »
DISCUSS SAMSON JUST ONCE< NO LINKS, NO COPYING AND PASTING< NO BEAST AND MONSTER FICTION STORIES OR ARCHEOLOGICAL DELUSIONS< D

DISCUSS THE TOPIC AT HAND

Why would you insist on me wasting my time repeating what I have already written? The links go to my prior posts, that answered your question, that you keep pretending I didn't post.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7927#msg7927

But I would recommend you quit wasting time on Samson when you have far more important and fundamental issues to come to terms with.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1900.msg7946#msg7946

(particularly since your Mohammedan understanding of martyrdom is the opposite of what martyrdom is)

And links I provide aren't for your benefit as much as those read-only participants that are genuinely seeking truth.

Mujaheed

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2010, 04:33:46 PM »
DISCUSS SAMSON JUST ONCE< NO LINKS, NO COPYING AND PASTING< NO BEAST AND MONSTER FICTION STORIES OR ARCHEOLOGICAL DELUSIONS< D

DISCUSS THE TOPIC AT HAND

Why would you insist on me wasting my time repeating what I have already written? The links go to my prior posts, that answered your question, that you keep pretending I didn't post.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7927#msg7927

But I would recommend you quit wasting time on Samson when you have far more important and fundamental issues
 to come to terms with.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1900.msg7946#msg7946

(particularly since your Mohammedan understanding of martyrdom is the opposite of what martyrdom is)

And links I provide aren't for your benefit as much as those read-only participants that are genuinely seeking truth.


 A "Shaheed", is a specific term, used in the Holy Quran and Sunnah. It has certainly a specific meaning and one should be careful before applying this term to a person and you should ascertain whether he is really qualified to be called a "Shaheed."

According to Islamic Jurisprudence, "Shaheed" is of two kinds:

Shaheed in the real sense.
Shaheed in the constructive sense.
Shaheed in the real sense is a Muslim who has been killed during "Jihad" or has been killed by any person unjustly. Such a person has two characteristics different from common people who die on their bed. Firstly, he should be buried without giving him a ritual bath. However, the prayer of the Janazah shall be offered on him and he shall also be given a proper kafin (burial shroud). Secondly, he will deserve a great reward in the Hereafter and it is hoped that Allah Almighty shall forgive his sins and admit him to Jannah. It is also stated in some of the traditions that the body of such a person remains in the grave protected from contamination or dissolution.

As compared to this kind of "Shaheed" a Shaheed in a constructive sense is a person who has been promised by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam to get a reward of a Shaheed in the Hereafter but is not taken as Shaheed with regard to the rules of burial. It means that the dead body has to be bathed like a dead body of any other person. The Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam has included in this category of Shaheed a large number of persons such as a person who has died in a Plague or who has died in an unexpected accident, like a fire or a traffic accident or who has been drowned in the water or a woman who has died during the delivery of her child etc.

Allama Jalaluddin Suyuti, a well-known scholar of Islamic disciplines, has collected all the Hadiths relating to this kind of Shaheed and has come to the conclusion that there are thirty categories mentioned by the Holy Prophet Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam who can deserve to be called Shaheed in this sense. But in the normal course, the word "Shaheed" is applied only for the first kind. However, it is not prohibited to use the word for a person who falls in any of the categories mentioned in the second kind.

It is evident from the above discussion that the word "Shaheed" can only be used for a Muslim and cannot be applied to a non-Muslim at all. Similarly, the term cannot be used for a person who has been rightly killed as a punishment of his own offence.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 03:58:11 AM by PeteWaldo »

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2010, 07:53:20 AM »
Shaheed in the real sense is a Muslim who has been killed during "Jihad" .....

Indeed!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911

Yet your own prophet, after having sent thousands to their deaths to advance his self-serving cult, died in a whimper in bed through the effects of a prior poisoning.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=949.0

http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=287.0

Mujaheed

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2010, 03:33:02 PM »
Yet your own prophet, after having sent thousands to their deaths to advance his self-serving cult, died in a whimper in bed through the effects of a prior poisoning.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=949.0

http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=287.0
[/quote]

Here is the Quran's advice to you, lets start with the basics the topics you dont understand I will explain to you later
005.040 Knowest thou not that to God (alone) belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punisheth whom He pleaseth, and He forgiveth whom He pleaseth: and God hath power over all things.

005.041 O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.

005.042 (They are fond of) listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden. If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere. If thou decline, they cannot hurt thee in the least. If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For God loveth those who judge in equity.

005.043 But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.

005.044 It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.

005.045 We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.

005.046 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.

005.047 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

005.048 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an Open Way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

005.049 And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which God hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is God's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.

005.050 Do they then seek after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than God?

005.051 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.

005.052 Those in whose hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying: "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps God will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts.

005.053 And those who believe will say: "Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by God, that they were with you?" All that they do will be in vain, and they will fall into (nothing but) ruin.

005.054 O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will God produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of God, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of God, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And God encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.

005.055 Your (real) friends are (no less than) God, His Apostle, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

005.056 As to those who turn (for friendship) to God, His Apostle, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of God that must certainly triumph.

005.057 O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye God, if ye have faith (indeed).

005.058 When ye proclaim your call to prayer they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because they are a people without understanding.

005.059 Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in God, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"

005.060 Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from God? Those who incurred the curse of God and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even Path!"
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 03:58:43 AM by PeteWaldo »

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2010, 04:10:42 PM »
The spread of Islam did not happen at the edge of the sword as you so misleading state everytime this subject comes up.

From Mohammed's return to Medina and threats against the Quraish. To outright slaughter of peaceful hardworking farmers.

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."



Let me tell you the whole story as you dont seem to do that anywhere in this website, half truths and full lies is your style, aimed at misleading as is the trend amongst the scribes and pharisees that do not wish to obey the commands of the Prophets.

Battle of the Trench (Ghazwah al-Khandaq)

In 627, the Quraish (the chief aggressors towards Muhammad) decided to go against the Prophet Muhammad once again, after failing at the battles of Badr and Uhud. The level of duplicity in which Banu Qurayza dealt with these circumstances varies with reports, but whether or not it was responsible for instigating the confrontation between the Quraish and Muhammad or merely betrayed the Prophet they did openly align themselves with the Quraishi campaign . This act of treason was designed to encompass the Muslims in battles on all sides, one that would eventually fail them.

After the siege ended, the Quraish defeated again, Banu Qurayza were left alone to face the Muslims they betrayed (going against virtually every principle outlined within the Covenant of Medina). Forced to surrender, the leader of Banu Qurayza was asked “Will you be satisfied, o Aus, if one of your own number pronounces judgement on them? When they agreed he said that Sa'd b. Mu'adh was the man...Sa'd said, Then I give judgement that the men should be killed, the property divide, and the women and children taken as captives.”

This incident if often recounted as the mass slaughter of between 800-1000 ‘innocent’ Jews, and is given credence as being documented by a Muslim historian. The events are often twisted and manipulated, however, when one looks deeper it becomes clear that there were extenuating circumstances.

My friend, why would you quote the Quran when you have been shown that it is nothing more than a bunch of 7th century unhistorical nonsense? You don't have to quote the STAND-ALONE rantings, of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate murderous thief, for us to be able to see Mohammed's heart in you.

We could see that way back in the quoted post above when you mentioned the "extenuating circumstances", that could somehow justify Mohammed's having had 800-1000 hard working, farm tending, boys and men from 10 years old and up, brought before him and beheaded over trenches. Then he and his boys raped and pressed their wives and daughters into sexual slavery, while stealing their property, and selling off their children and old women into slavery. The proceeds of which, of course, were used to finance swords and camels so they could go on to murder, rape, and steal more people's property. With Mohammed receiving a 1/5 share of the stolen goods - just like a Mafia Don.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=608.0

I am sure my frustration has increasingly shown in my posts. That's because I am desperate for you my friend. If you ask Jesus to come into your life He will give you a new heart, and put His law in your inward parts, just like Jeremiah prophesied of the new covenant, during the old covenant.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0

Mujaheed

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2010, 05:43:46 AM »
We could see that way back in the quoted post above when you mentioned the "extenuating circumstances", that could somehow justify Mohammed's having had 800-1000 hard working, farm tending, boys and men from 10 years old and up, brought before him and beheaded over trenches. Then he and his boys raped and pressed their wives and daughters into sexual slavery, while stealing their property, and selling off their children and old women into slavery. The proceeds of which, of course, were used to finance swords and camels so they could go on to murder, rape, and steal more people's property. With Mohammed receiving a 1/5 share of the stolen goods just like a Mafia Don.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=608.0

I am sure my frustration has increasingly shown in my posts. That's because I am desperate for you my friend. If you ask Jesus to come into your life He will give you a new heart, and put His law in your inward parts, just like Jeremiah prophesied of the new covenant, during the old covenant.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0

[/quote]

I am starting realise where your delusions come from, a classic case of Satanic Pride and ignorance, saying one thing and doing the complete opposite. I believe in One GOD, but wait that God is three parts but a whole, actually he begets a son but the son is god bot the god ddi not die the son died for sins of the world, so no more war, no more killing like samson, all the years of Prophets and scripture must be denied as the law is now a natural law of a the spirit which we will call the holy spirit, (SPIRIT OR JINN OR DEMON OR SATAN?) WHO ARE YOU FOLLOWING JESUS WHO ASKED YOU NOT TO LEAVE OUT EVEN A DOT ON A LETTER OF THE LAW OR JINN/SPIRIT OR HOLY GHOST?

THIS IS THE REAL WORLD< THE TOPIC I CHOSE (SAMSON THE FIRST SUICIDE Martyr/Soldier) IS THE PROOF OF HOW THE GOD OF THIS WORLD IS LETTING US LIVE AND DEAL WITH ONE ANOTHER, THE ESSENCE AND TRUTH OF WHAT SCRIPTURE IS ABOUT. GOD IS NOT DELUSIONAL AND THINK THAT ALL MEN WILL ACCEPT THE TRUTH< THERE ARE THOSE THAT WILL OPPOSE THE TRUTH. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO WHEN YOU SMACKED WITH A Russion AK 47 turn the other cheek or ask your government to wage war on them?

JESUS IS PART THAT BALANCE< THE KILLING DID NOT STOP IN ISRAEL, THE JEWS ARE TO THIS DAY KILLING HUMAN BEINGS AND YOU WILL PROBABLY JUSTIFY THEIR KILLING AND DISPLACEMENT OF THE INHABITANTS< LOOK AT THE SITUATION TODAY AND BECOME DISGUSTED< DO NOT TRY TO UNDERSTAND OR BE DISSATISFIED WITH THE DECREE OF GOD

YOUR FRUSTRATION IS THE SAME AS THAT OF SATANS WITH THE MUSLIMS, SATAN HATES IT WHEN MANKIND FOLLOWS THE COMMANDMENTS AND PROPHETS OF ALLAH>

« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 04:00:22 AM by PeteWaldo »

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2010, 06:30:16 AM »
To our Muslim read-only participant friends, can you see the fruit of a heart that is consumed and driven by the spirit of antichrist?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=884.msg7943#msg7943
You no longer need to wonder how some Muslims wind up thinking their way into strapping on bombs and blowing themselves up in a bus-load of Jewish school children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911

Did Samson make a plan to commit suicide while murdering innocent people? Of course not.
God strengthened him and assigned him the task of liberating the Israelites from the oppression of the Philistines.
Is it ever wrong to come to the defense of the defenseless?
That's the exact opposite of Islamic imperialistic conquest, subjugation, and oppression.
Samson's decision to pull the pillars down was made at the moment, like when a self-sacrificing soldier covers a grenade with his body to save his friends, not by intent of suicide through a prior plan.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
Yet we see this poor satanically consumed - true follower of Mohammed - twisting the account to lionize Islamic suicide murderers.

Besides that, by the time Mohammed came along about 1500 years had passed, from the time that any Old Testament prophets picked up a sword, or suggested the use of a sword in God's service.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0
But just as Mohammed had done in Arabia, Islam raped, pillaged, and plundered its way in imperialistic conquest, through nearly the whole known world during the first Islamic jihad, until being stopped in France and Austria.
Godless Muslims in this second Islamic jihad - besides killing over 2 million in the Sudan alone - are responsible for over 16,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11. That's because Mohammed's true followers emulate the behavior of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in the history of the world.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

The poor fellow is so deluded through his indoctrination into Mohammed's - demonstrably unhistorical - religion, that he actually foolishly believes that Muslims keep the law - even as he champions suicide murder. But keeping the law today is an impossibility, even for Jews that live in Israel - which is essential in order to keep a good bit of the law - who cannot possibly keep more than about 1/3 of the law. Muslims don't even keep the Sabbath!
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1424.msg7991#msg7991
I think a new thread is in order to explore what kind of a job Mohammed did in even keeping the 10 commandments.

Now compare Mujaheed's suggestions of the law and suicide murder, with how the law is summarized, under the new covenant.

Mark 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.  32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

These last two posts provide excellent summaries of our two perspectives. Mujaheed, I do want to thank you for providing such a good example, for Muslim read-only participants to this forum that are genuinely seeking the truth.

No need to for us to beat a dead horse or go in yet another circle. Everything posted on this thread from this point on, will be split off of this topic and moved to the "Extensions of Chats" category.

Mujaheed

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2010, 08:38:34 AM »
To our Muslim read-only participant friends, can you see the fruit of a heart that is consumed and driven by the spirit of antichrist?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=884.msg7943#msg7943
You no longer need to wonder how some Muslims wind up thinking their way into strapping on bombs and blowing themselves up in a bus-load of Jewish school children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7911#msg7911

Did Samson make a plan to commit suicide while murdering innocent people? Of course not.
God strengthened him and assigned him the task of liberating the Israelites from the oppression of the Philistines.
Is it ever wrong to come to the defense of the defenseless?
That's the exact opposite of Islamic imperialistic conquest, subjugation, and oppression.
Samson's decision to pull the pillars down was made at the moment, like when a self-sacrificing soldier covers a grenade with his body to save his friends, not by intent of suicide through a prior plan.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898
Yet we see this poor satanically consumed - true follower of Mohammed - twisting the account to lionize Islamic suicide murderers.


No need to for us to beat a dead horse or go in yet another circle. Everything posted on this thread from this point on, will be split off of this topic and moved to the "Extensions of Chats" category.


AS EVERYONE CAN SEE< SPECULATION AND CONJECTURE< FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND NOTHING BUT PERTERS OWN OPINION REGARDING HIS OWN BIBLE VERSES< SAMSON PRAYED TO THE LORD TO DIE BEFORE HE DID WHAT HE DID WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT? INTENT<

PETER THEN GOES ON TO COMPARE A PERSON OF GOD TO A POLITICAL SUICIDE BOMBER AND I NEVER SAID I CONDONE SUCH ACTIONS PETER ASSUMED THAT AND IT IS OBVIOUS THAT HE IS PREJUDICED NAD CANNOT KEEP AN OPEN MIND< ATTACKING MY CHARACTER DOES YOU KNOW GOOD IT REVEALS THE CONDITION OF YOUR HEART TOWARDS HUMANITY< A FAR CRY FROM JESUS

A THREAT TO SPLIT MY POSTS AFTER ONE LINE OF YOURS THAT HAS NO BASIS IN SCRIPTURE? WHAT AN ARROGANT MAN YOU ARE.

THIS IS A CHAT THAT YOU ARE ARE UNWILLING TO ENTER INTO< INSTEAD YOU GO AROUND IN CIRCLES WITH THE SAME FALSE RHETORIC AND IGNORANT ASSUMPTIONS REGARDING ISLAM NAD MUSLIMS. WHY DONT YOU ASK ME WHAT I BELIEVE.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 04:01:39 AM by PeteWaldo »

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2010, 08:47:09 AM »
This thread is open again because of your repeated false accusations as detailed here.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1905.msg8021#msg8021

Please quote and this time answer, this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872


Then this post
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7898#msg7898

Do not post in other threads before we exhaust the topics that you are currently engaged in.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1905.msg8021#msg8021

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2010, 09:05:19 AM »
Mohammed prevented you from understanding what martyrdom is. That's why we first have to have an understanding of martyrdom before we can judge your premise.

1. Let's say that someone broke into your house during a home invasion. Let's say the perpetrator killed you, and then raped your wife, and then he grabbed your life savings out of your drawer.
But on his way to the door your wife was able to get to a gun and shoot him.
Would that make the perpetrator a martyr?

2. Now let's say you heard a gun shot from next door. You ran over to find your neighbor dead, and his murderer was about to rape his wife. Even though you knew the guy had a gun, you jumped the guy anyway in an effort to save the woman from being raped, but the perpetrator shot and killed you. Would that selfless sacrifice of yourself constitute martyrdom?

Mujaheed

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2010, 09:14:30 AM »


Mohammed prevented you from understanding what martyrdom is. That's why we first have to have an understanding of martyrdom before we can judge your premise.

1. Let's say that someone broke into your house during a home invasion. Let's say the perpetrator killed you, and then raped your wife, and then he grabbed your life savings out of your drawer.
But on his way to the door your wife was able to get to a gun and shoot him.
Would that make the perpetrator a martyr?

2. Now let's say you heard a gun shot from next door. You ran over to find your neighbor dead, and his murderer was about to rape his wife. Even though you knew the guy had a gun, you jumped the guy anyway in an effort to save the woman from being raped, but the perpetrator shot and killed you. Would that selfless sacrifice of yourself constitute martyrdom?

THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD MADE IT VERY CLEAR AS TO WHAT CONSTITUTES MARTYRDOM< YOU CHOSE TO IGNORE MY POST ON THE HADITH COVERING A MARTYR AND AS IS YOUR STYLE I AM SUBJECTED TO THE LIMITED INTELLECT OF A MAN THAT HAS NO INTEREST IN SCRIPTURE!

BRING ME THE CHRISTIAN DEFINITION OF A MARTYR ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE VERSES AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO COMPARE IT WITH THE QURAN AND HADITH OF THE PROPHET>

STOP BEING A SPECULATOR TRYING TO SUBJECT EVRYONE TO YOUR HYPOTHETICAL ILLUSIONS OF KNOWING SOMETHING EVERYONE ELSE DOES NOT!

PETER please I urge you to turn to the revealed scripture for your guidance, not your opinion, my opinion he self appointed experts with nothing but opinion, your salvation depends on it.

YOUR HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION IS ONE GOD SHOULD ANSWER< MY SHORT ANSWER IS THAT ANYONE KILLED UNJUSTLY OR PREMATURELY< EXCEPT WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE (SUICIDE) IS CONSIDERED A MARTYR. UNJUSTLY IS WHEN YOU ARE INVADED BY AN ENEMY< WHEN AN ENEMY TO ALLAH THREATENS TO KILL  A BELIEVER IN WAR ON A BATTLEFIELD. TRAITORS ARE NOT MARTYRS< DISBELIEVERS CANNOT BE GIVEN A REWARD THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN>

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2010, 09:16:51 AM »
UNJUSTLY IS WHEN YOU ARE INVADED BY AN ENEMY< WHEN AN ENEMY TO ALLAH THREATENS TO KILL  A BELIEVER IN WAR ON A BATTLEFIELD. TRAITORS ARE NOT MARTYRS< DISBELIEVERS CANNOT BE GIVEN A REWARD THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN>

So then none of the Islamic soldiers killed during Mohammed's imperialistic conquest of Arabia, or those killed in the First Islamic Jihad imperialistic conquest all the way up to France and Austria, were martyrs.

YOUR HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION IS ONE GOD SHOULD ANSWER< MY SHORT ANSWER IS THAT ANYONE KILLED UNJUSTLY OR PREMATURELY< EXCEPT WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE (SUICIDE) IS CONSIDERED A MARTYR.

Then that would make those that were attacked by Islam's imperialistic conquest, from Mecca all the way up to France and Austria, that died trying to defend their communities, families, property and freedom from Islamic invaders, martyrs.

Mujaheed

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2010, 03:54:48 AM »
UNJUSTLY IS WHEN YOU ARE INVADED BY AN ENEMY< WHEN AN ENEMY TO ALLAH THREATENS TO KILL  A BELIEVER IN WAR ON A BATTLEFIELD. TRAITORS ARE NOT MARTYRS< DISBELIEVERS CANNOT BE GIVEN A REWARD THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN>

So then none of the Islamic soldiers killed during Mohammed's imperialistic conquest of Arabia, or those killed in the First Islamic Jihad imperialistic conquest all the way up to France and Austria, were martyrs.

YOUR HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION IS ONE GOD SHOULD ANSWER< MY SHORT ANSWER IS THAT ANYONE KILLED UNJUSTLY OR PREMATURELY< EXCEPT WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE (SUICIDE) IS CONSIDERED A MARTYR.

Then that would make those that were attacked by Islam's imperialistic conquest, from Mecca all the way up to France and Austria, that died trying to defend their communities, families, property and freedom from Islamic invaders, martyrs.



YOU ARE TRULY DEVOID OF UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE AND ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS YOUR OWN OPINION> FROM THE ENEMY OF GOD PERSPECTIVE< THE PROPHETS ARE THE ENEMIES, SO ALL THE PROPHETS OF GOD EXCEPT ACCORDING TO YOUR BIASE MUHAMMAD IS JUSTIFIED IN KILLING THE ENEMIES OF GOD. HOW A PREPOSTEROUS NOTION. YOU OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THOSE THAT HAVE ALWAYS OPPOSED THE TRUTH, YOU ARE ONE THE SIDE OF THOSE THAT REBEL AGAINST THE TRUTH OF GOD!

ISLAM HAS ALWAYS HAD ENEMIES AS THE BIBLE TESTIFIES< (ISLAM _MEANS THE WILL OF THE GOD (AL_THE IELAAH GOD) WHAT YOU SAYING IS THAT NO PROPHET BEFORE MUHAMMAD KILLED ANYONE? ARE YOU DELUSIONAL, THERE ARE NO ARMIES OF GOD? NO SOLDIERS OF GOD? NONE THE WORDS APPEAR IN YOUR VERSION OF THE BIBLE? THERE WAS NO DAVID AND GOLIATH AND KILLING IN THE BIBLE IS DIFFERENT TO THE KILLING IN THE QURAN?

YOU ARE READING THE BIBLE AS IF YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO OTHER PEOPLE (THE CREATION OF GOD) THAT IS WHAT SATAN THINKS AND MAINTAINS OVER MAN, THAT IS ALSO WHY HE IS CURSED FOR HIS REBELLIOUS NATURE!

I DONT SEE THE PROPHETS AS BELONGING TO A CERTAIN GROUP OR SEPARATE FROM ONE ANOTHER, THEY ARE FROM GOD SENT AS AN EXAMPLE TO MANKIND< MUHAMMAD CAME TO MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR: HE CAME TO SHOW PRACTICALLY WHAT ALL THE PROPHETS BEFORE CAME WITH> WHEN MUHAMMAD CAME IT WAS TIME FOR ALLAH TO BE MADE KNOWN TO THE ENTIRE HUMANITY NOT JUST A RACE THAT CONSIDERED THEMSELVES TO BE CHOSEN OR SAVED< THOSE THAT OPPOSED THIS NOTION CHOSE TO TAKE UP ARMS AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. MUSLIMS ONLY DECLARED WAR WHEN THE LEADERS DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY ARE CLEARLY THE ENEMY OF GOD AND REFUSES TO ALLOW THEIR PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE THE WORD OF GOD> THERE IS NO ARMY OF MUSLIMS AT THE MOMENT AND ALL ATTACKS OUTSIDE OF THE NATION AT WAR WITHIN THEIR COUNTRY IS UNJUSTIFIED.

NOW BEFORE YOU GO OFF ABOUT ISLAMIC COUNTRIES NOT ALLOWING OTHER RELIGIONS, I URGE YOU TO SPEAK TO OVER 200 000 JEWS IN IRAN AND MOROCCO AND SYRIA AND MANY ISLAMIC COUNTRIES. BAHRAIN HAS BUILT CHURCHES FOR CHRISTIANS IN DOHA, QATAR, DUBAI AND ALL OVER THE GULF AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RAISE FUNDS AS THE GOVT WILL PROVIDE FOR ANY OF THEIR NEEDS.

 The Islamic countries also have serious problems stemming from widespread ignorance about Islam, but we should not get side tracked into political discussions, let our focus be true belief in GOD first.

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2010, 09:24:14 AM »
The Islamic countries also have serious problems stemming from widespread ignorance about Islam, but we should not get side tracked into political discussions, let our focus be true belief in GOD first.

The west is the only place where there is ignorance about Mohammedanism, as you aptly demonstrate. The terrorists bred in the cradle of Mohammed's religion, are the true Muslims, that follow in the footsteps of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in world history.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0
The ignorance is understandable in 3rd world countries, and prisons, where Mohammedanism flourishes among the illiterate. Ignorance such as yours in the west, is self-imposed and inexcusable. All can see that following Mohammed made it so that you can't even admit to what a martyr is.

Mujaheed

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2010, 09:38:16 AM »
The Islamic countries also have serious problems stemming from widespread ignorance about Islam, but we should not get side tracked into political discussions, let our focus be true belief in GOD first.

The west is the only place where there is ignorance about Mohammedanism, as you aptly demonstrate. The terrorists bred in the cradle of Mohammed's religion, are the true Muslims, that follow in the footsteps of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in world history.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0
The ignorance is understandable in 3rd world countries, and prisons, where Mohammedanism flourishes among the illiterate. Ignorance such as yours in the west, is self-imposed and inexcusable. All can see that following Mohammed made it so that you can't even admit to what a martyr is.


I GAVE YOU THE DEFINITION AND HADITH OF A MARTYR. I TRY NOT TO FOLLOW YOUR EXAMPLE, FORMULATE OPINIONS ABOUT MATTERS THAT BELONG TO GOD!

YOUR DEFINITION OF A MARTYR IS MEANINGLESS< YOUR VIEW OF A MARTYR AS IS ANY INDIVIDUAL, THE DEFINITION IS FOR YOUR OWN INTENTIONS< TO ENSURE THAT I MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS For My own Life. NOT FOR US TO SPECULATE ON WHO DIED AS A MARTYR OR WHO DID NOT, THAT IS FOR GOD TO DECIDE.

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2010, 04:52:26 AM »
I was content to leave this thread with Mujaheed's self-contradiction, wherein by his own definition that he cited just 5 posts above, discussed in the following link, it is obvious that Muslim imperialistic conquering murderers can only be described as murderers, not martyrs even by his own standard.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg8030#msg8030

Then in post after post in on other threads in this forum, he lied about my not replying to this thread.
Then today, after having earlier ignored reply after reply of mine on this thread, and ignoring my repeated prodding in this thread to revisit the replies that he ignored from the very first page of this thread, he had the unmitigated gall to PM me the following.

Dear Peter

I wuold like to point out that I respect your loyalty to your own version of reality, but your lack of knowledge of Islam is a huge hunderance in our discussions as you get stuck on out of context verses with no room for someone to explain it to you.

With respect, I am hardly a ducker and dodger, but it's ironical as I feel exactly the same way about you. IN FACT MY QUESTION IS: ARE YOU GOING TO STEER ALL THE POSTS IN ONE DIRECTION ONLY AND NOT ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS, LIKE THE SAMSON POST NOW SHUT DOWN BY YOU WHEN HAVE NO ANSWERS?

Hardly a discussion if you do that.

To which I replied in PM then posted here
_______________________

The Samson post is not shut down. It is moved to a more appropriate category. It was unrelated to the category it was in.
Why would you lie when the record shows otherwise? You ignored my early effort to explore your premises in my first reply by discussing the difference between Muslim "martyrs" and Christian martyrs.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7852#msg7852

You continued throughout the thread ignoring my probing in that regard because you falsely believe that a person accidentally killed while in the act of imperialistic conquest and slaughter of others is a martyr. THEY ARE NOT. They are MURDERERS.

You did not respond to the post regarding fixing your quotes. You continued on to ignore it for another 200 posts.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7864#msg7864

Nor did you respond to my question in the next post, regarding whether Samson set out in the morning with the intent of suicide, yet I prodded you over and over to do so. My effort was to distinguish the difference between suicide and self-sacrifice.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872

It was you that ignored my replies.
_______________________

If you choose to reply to this begin by stating whether you can understand the difference between suicide and self-sacrifice.

Peter

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Re: The first Suicide Soldier
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2010, 07:07:29 AM »
From his following PM http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2015.msg8507#msg8507

I will try to track it as it is no longer under the heading i created.

But as everyone can see the title you created remains the same and is confirmed in the title of post after post, after the initial post. It was moved to this general category because it was unrelated to "The Love of God as Revealed Through the Word" category, that you should never have posted it in, in the first place.

I wa not discussing the difference between a Muslim martyr and a Christian martyr as it becomes a matter of you stating your opinion and not fact, we differ in that I recognise all men that sacrifice their LIVES for the sake of THE GOD  (ALLAH) .......

Thank you for again offering excellent insight into the mind of modern Muslim jihad murderers, as you have in so many other threads. A mind in the mold of those of the Islamic first jihad, and the mind of the murderous false prophet Mohammed himself. The so-called "Sacrifice" of inadvertently dying WHILE IN THE ACT OF MURDERING OTHERS while engaged in imperialistic conquest "for the sake of" Mohammed's alter ego "Allah" (Satan).

........ as martyrs throughout history from SAMSON to anyone that is killed by a foriegner on his soil while protecting his home.

Exactly! Like those who sacrificed themselves, while valiantly defending their families, property, community and country, from the murderous onslaught of the first Islamic jihad. From Mecca, all the way up to France and Austria, as already mentioned in this post.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg8030#msg8030
Like those among the over 2 million killed while protecting their own - in the Sudan alone - during this second Islamic jihad.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0

You however have a different opinion not based on belief but conjecture according to your limited intellect. The discussion is around SAMSON not modern day political views of a narrow minded bigot.

I will not respond to absurd questions, intent was proven by Samson, who used the opportunity according the OT version as and opportunity to kill people, (disbelievers) and prayed for his own death. as clearly stated in the Bible, your absurd speculation about did he set out is irrelevant and totally trying to divert the story towards speculation. HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY GUESS INTENT OF SAMSON? UNLESS YOU GOING TO USE CONJECTURE ONCE AGAIN. HE WAS NOT AWARE OF THE OPPORTUNITY UNTIL IT WAS PRESENTED TO HIM , .....

Exactly. That was my point early on that you repeatedly failed to address. He didn't set out on a suicide mission.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7872#msg7872
And as I pointed out in other threads, Samson's spontaneous reaction is akin to the self-sacrifice of a brave modern day soldier, that throws himself on a reprobate's IED, in order to save his fellow soldiers that are accompanying him.

..... THEN HE FORMED THE INTENT TO KILL AND DIE!!!!

He reacted to the circumstances that were presented to him with self-sacrifice.

This provided an excellent conclusion and final presentation of our two views. Particularly highlighting your inability to understand the difference between suicide and self-sacrifice.
No need to dither on even more. You did a more than thorough job of presenting your view.

Posts of further discussion with Mujaheed will be moved to the chat extension thread at the following link. Anyone so inclined is welcome continue to go in circles and further beat this dead horse with him there.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1902.0
Others that may think of a point that was missed, or with comments on the material already posted, are welcome to quote and post in reply to any post in this thread, on this thread.
DO NOT, however, begin a discussion about Mujaheed, but rather stick to the content of the posts.