From this thread post on Mohammed's beheading of 800 innocent Jewish farmers - boys and men - split off as a separate subject.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1930.msg8222#msg8222
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 03:36:27 AM
SO DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE LAW OF THE BIBLE WHEN HE instituted his punishment? Yes or No
NO. He followed his flesh. That's the whole point. Your blindness to it and insistence on rejecting YHWH to follow a 7th century reprobate is what makes you a MOHAMMEDan.
Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Do you really believe that beheading an innocent 10 year old boy and raping his 9 year old sister and mother describes love, in the Christian era?
Pretending that the 1600 year progressive revelation (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0) of God to mankind, ended at its beginning with the book of Deuteronomy, in an effort to justify Mohammed's 7th century reprobate nature, 500 years after the Scriptures were closed, thoroughly display's your abject rejection of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and your having been delivered over to the spirit of antichrist.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 03:36:27 AMOH I FORGOT YOUR ARROGANCE DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO ANSWER A QUESTION ANY WHERE IN THE THREAD.
YOUR DEVIATION, UNSCRUPULOUS LIES AND DECEIT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO GIVE A STRAIGHT ANSWER TO ANY QUESTION IN THIS FORUM, INSTEAD A LINK TO THE SAME LIES AND IPINIONS OVER AND OVER AGAIN
ARE YOU AFRAID TO JUDGE BY WHAT IS IN YOUR BIBLE?
DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE VERSE? YES OR NO, SIMPLE AND I DONT MIND IF YOU ELABORATE.
THE WAY YOU INTERPRET EVENTS IS NOTHING BUT AN INDICATION OF YOUR IMMATURITY (OF YOUR MIND) NOT OF YOUR BODY, Your narrow minded bigotry ..........
All it requires is a conscience to judge Mohammed and his fellow rapists.
Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives.
We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 03:36:27 AM.......... and disbelief in your own bible verses ......
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 03:36:27 AM...... you so love to quote at your convenience is blinding you to the truth and I feel sorry for you. You are trying very hard but in the wrong direction.
The stunning ignorance you express by suffering under the preposterous delusion that you, or Mohammed, or any other Mohammedan over the last 1400 years, follow any law but
Mohammed's law, along with
the pagan Quraish's black stone idol and Saee jinn-demon worship "law", expresses your most ridiculous blindness. No I take that back. This thread reveals a mind incapable of even operating within the realms of common human decency. You have, however, been very useful in helping us get to see firsthand how Mohammed's mind worked, and how the spirit of antichrist works in you. I'll likely let this thread stand on it's own rather than merging it, as it offers such excellent insight into the Mohammedan mind.
Your actually believing that because Mohammed didn't eat pork, that somehow his rape, pillage, plunder and slaughter of innocents through imperialistic conquest, slavery, and subjugation of those innocents to satan's antichrist religion, is OK. For pity's sake you don't even observe the Sabbath but Mohammed's Friday instead.
"In fact, Muhammad deliberately chose Friday over the Sabbath as a way of degrading the Jews:"http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1932.msg8225#msg8225
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha
Quote from: Peter on October 28, 2010, 06:07:35 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 03:36:27 AM
SO DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE LAW OF THE BIBLE WHEN HE instituted his punishment? Yes or No
NO. He followed his flesh. That's the whole point. Your blindness to it and insistence on rejecting YHWH to follow a 7th century reprobate is what makes you a MOHAMMEDan.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Do you really believe that beheading an innocent 10 year old boy and raping his 9 year old sister and mother describes love, in the Christian era?
Pretending that the 1600 year progressive revelation (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0) of God to mankind, ended at its beginning with the book of Deuteronomy, in an effort to justify Mohammed's 7th century reprobate nature, 500 years after the Scriptures were closed, thoroughly display's your abject rejection of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and your having been delivered over to the spirit of antichrist.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 03:36:27 AMOH I FORGOT YOUR ARROGANCE DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO ANSWER A QUESTION ANY WHERE IN THE THREAD.
YOUR DEVIATION, UNSCRUPULOUS LIES AND DECEIT DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO GIVE A STRAIGHT ANSWER TO ANY QUESTION IN THIS FORUM, INSTEAD A LINK TO THE SAME LIES AND IPINIONS OVER AND OVER AGAIN
ARE YOU AFRAID TO JUDGE BY WHAT IS IN YOUR BIBLE?
DID MUHAMMAD FOLLOW THE VERSE? YES OR NO, SIMPLE AND I DONT MIND IF YOU ELABORATE.
THE WAY YOU INTERPRET EVENTS IS NOTHING BUT AN INDICATION OF YOUR IMMATURITY (OF YOUR MIND) NOT OF YOUR BODY, Your narrow minded bigotry ..........
All it requires is a conscience to judge Mohammed and his fellow rapists.
Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 03:36:27 AM.......... and disbelief in your own bible verses ......
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment. 31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 03:36:27 AM...... you so love to quote at your convenience is blinding you to the truth and I feel sorry for you. You are trying very hard but in the wrong direction.
The stunning ignorance you express by suffering under the preposterous delusion that you, or Mohammed, or any other Mohammedan over the last 1400 years, follow any law but Mohammed's law, along with the pagan Quraish's black stone idol and Saee jinn-demon worship "law", expresses your most ridiculous blindness. No I take that back. This thread reveals a mind incapable of even operating within the realms of common human decency. You have, however, been very useful in helping us get to see firsthand how Mohammed's mind worked, and how the spirit of antichrist works in you. I'll likely let this thread stand on it's own rather than merging it, as it offers such excellent insight into the Mohammedan mind.
Your actually believing that because Mohammed didn't eat pork, that somehow his rape, pillage, plunder and slaughter of innocents through imperialistic conquest, slavery, and subjugation of those innocents to satan's antichrist religion, is OK. For pity's sake you don't even observe the Sabbath but Mohammed's Friday instead.
"In fact, Muhammad deliberately chose Friday over the Sabbath as a way of degrading the Jews:"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1932.msg8225#msg8225
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha
SO JESUS CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW THAT GOD SENT? DEUTORONOMY NO LONGER APPLIES
THERE ARE NO LAWS AGAINST CRIME? AND THE LAW ENFORCER IS A CRIMINAL IF HE DOES NOT FORGIVE YOU AND LET YOU REPENT AND LOVE YOU WHEN YOU COMMIT A CRIME?
THE JEWS WERE ANYTHING BUT NEIGHBORLY, PLOTTING THE DEATH OF AN ENTIRE CITY, HOW NEIGHBORLY!!!!
AGAIN CONJECTURE REGARDING THE AGES OF THE BEHEADED AND A VILE ACCUSATION OF RAPE, BRING THE EVIDENCE OH I FORGOT YOUR WHOLE POINT AND PURPOSE IS TO PROVE THE QURAN 100% Spot on
THEY SAY A thing and it is nothing but conjecture ring a bell
THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING THAT YOU ARE EXACTLY AS THE QURAN DESCRIBES YOU!!!!
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:39:11 AM
SO JESUS CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW THAT GOD SENT? DEUTORONOMY NO LONGER APPLIES
THERE ARE NO LAWS AGAINST CRIME? AND THE LAW ENFORCER IS A CRIMINAL IF HE DOES NOT FORGIVE YOU AND LET YOU REPENT AND LOVE YOU WHEN YOU COMMIT A CRIME?
Certainly not. He fulfilled it. Refocusing the Law to inward change instead of outward religious practice that has no substance. The rituals that God gave in the OT were types and shadows of a fulfillment in Jesus. Passover for instance was a foreshadowing of the crucifixion. In that hour a perfect "lamb" was sacraficed as atonement for sin. In that eternal death passes over those who accept that sacrafice.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:39:11 AM
THE JEWS WERE ANYTHING BUT NEIGHBORLY, PLOTTING THE DEATH OF AN ENTIRE CITY, HOW NEIGHBORLY!!!!
I would refrain from such broad generalizations. Just as not all muslims are the same neither are all Jews. And in concerns to the conquest of Canaan those people they fought against sacraficed children by laying them on brazen hot idols. Not the type of people God wanted intermingling with His chosen and also I would add they had centuries to repent. Now there is a better way through Jesus.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:39:11 AM
AGAIN CONJECTURE REGARDING THE AGES OF THE BEHEADED AND A VILE ACCUSATION OF RAPE, BRING THE EVIDENCE OH I FORGOT YOUR WHOLE POINT AND PURPOSE IS TO PROVE THE QURAN 100% Spot on
Your lack of empathy to answer a single question about the moral fortitude of a man that took the daughter of a tortured and slain enemy has not allowed you to see the evidence. The Qur'an clearly allows for Muhammad as well as other muslims to take their women, whether wives or concubines, in any manner they choose. Muhammad was poisoned by a woman he forced to sleep with him. If she despised him so much to attempt his assassination why then would she willingly give in to his desires. That constitutes rape. That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface when you consider Aisha who was too young to decide on her own what she desired.
THEY SAY A thing and it is nothing but conjecture ring a bell
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:39:11 AM
THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING THAT YOU ARE EXACTLY AS THE QURAN DESCRIBES YOU!!!!
You have made this claim several times and yet you still continue. If you feel so sure that the Qur'an is 100% right about Christians then why do you persist?
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:39:11 AM
SO JESUS CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW THAT GOD SENT? DEUTORONOMY NO LONGER APPLIES
Are you suggesting that Mohammed, or you, keep the law?
Of course not, as I am sure you would agree that only a complete imbecile could suggest that Mohammedans follow the law, when they don't even keep the Sabbath!
"In fact, Muhammad deliberately chose Friday over the Sabbath as a way of degrading the Jews:"http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1932.msg8225#msg8225
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha
So have you stopped to consider just why it is, that
the only parts of the law that you pick and choose, are those from 3500 years ago
at the beginnings of God's revelation, and lessons to primitive man, in efforts to justify Mohammed's purely and thoroughly reprobate 7th century behavior, in the Christian era?
Quote from: Peter on October 28, 2010, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:39:11 AM
SO JESUS CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW THAT GOD SENT? DEUTORONOMY NO LONGER APPLIES
Are you suggesting that Mohammed, or you, keep the law?
Of course not, as I am sure you would agree that only a complete imbecile could suggest that Mohammedans follow the law, when they don't even keep the Sabbath!
"In fact, Muhammad deliberately chose Friday over the Sabbath as a way of degrading the Jews:"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1932.msg8225#msg8225
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha
So have you stopped to consider just why it is, that the only parts of the law that you pick and choose, are those from 3500 years ago at the beginnings of God's revelation, and lessons to primitive man, in efforts to justify Mohammed's purely and thoroughly reprobate 7th century behavior, in the Christian era?
There is no doubt that the Jews had deviated from belief and correct worship of THE GOD, Jesus testifies to this, NABI YAHYA(John the Baptist) was killed for his beliefs and preaching the correct way to worship.
So the law as the Jews had it had to be corrected and the true meaning had to be revealed to the world after further deviation by the Pagan CHRISTIAN writers of NICEAN COUNCIL,
THE MERCY UNTO ALL MANKIND- MUHAMMAD, THE MOST LOVED BT ALLAH, RASOOL (MESSENGER TO MANKIND FROM ALLAH CAME TO SHOW HUMANITY THE TRUE WAY TO LIVE> a path that lead him through the turmoil and suffering is wrought with immense trials and tribulations and despite your best efforts to make him sound like a tyrant ruler (shows your ignorance of GOD) He achieved more than anyone before him in succeeding to get more nations to the worship THE GOD (ALLAH) of ABRAHAM, MOSES< DAWUD< EESA< YAHYA AND ALL THE PROPHETS SENT BY ALLAH.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 05:02:33 PM
THE MERCY UNTO ALL MANKIND- MUHAMMAD, THE MOST LOVED BT ALLAH, RASOOL (MESSENGER TO MANKIND FROM ALLAH CAME TO SHOW HUMANITY THE TRUE WAY TO LIVE>
That is, of course, why I previously said you reject YHWH and the Gospel to follow
Mohammed's law - of the flesh. And you do it through the pagan Quraish's black stone idol, and Saee jinn-demon worship ritual.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
That's why Christians believe that YHWH is about loving our neighbors, in the Christian era.
That's why you believe that Mohammed's "Allah" is about beheading boys and men, enslaving and raping their wives and children, and stealing their property, in the Christian era.
Quote from: Peter on October 28, 2010, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 05:02:33 PM
THE MERCY UNTO ALL MANKIND- MUHAMMAD, THE MOST LOVED BT ALLAH, RASOOL (MESSENGER TO MANKIND FROM ALLAH CAME TO SHOW HUMANITY THE TRUE WAY TO LIVE>
That is, of course, why I previously said you reject YHWH and the Gospel to follow Mohammed's law - of the flesh. And you do it through the pagan Quraish's black stone idol, and Saee jinn-demon worship ritual.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
That's why Christians believe that YHWH is about loving our neighbors, in the Christian era.
That's why you believe that Mohammed's "Allah" is about beheading boys and men, enslaving and raping their wives and children, and stealing their property, in the Christian era.
AS STATED BEFORE YOU ARE DELUSIONAL, NOTHING BUT A LIAR AND A CONJECTURER
AND THE ABOVE STATEMENTS PROVE MY CLAIMS AS I HAVE CORRECTED YOUR FALSE STATEMENTS SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE AND YET YOU PERSIST WITH NO EVIDENCE OR BIBLICAL VERSES OR QURANIC VERSES!!!!!
Allahu la ilaha illa Huwa, Al-Haiyul-Qaiyum La ta'khudhuhu sinatun wa la nawm, lahu ma fis-samawati wa ma fil-'ard Man dhal-ladhi yashfa'u 'indahu illa bi-idhnihi Ya'lamu ma baina aidihim wa ma khalfahum, wa la yuhituna bi shai'im-min 'ilmihi illa bima sha'a Wasi'a kursiyuhus-samawati wal ard, wa la ya'uduhu hifdhuhuma Wa Huwal 'Aliyul-Adheem
"Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede In His presence except As he permitteth? He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth. His throne doth extend Over the heavens And on earth, and He feeleth No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory)."
[Surah al-Baqarah 2: 255]
Why deny it and make accusations against me?
Why not proudly proclaim, that in the 7th century of the Christian era, your "Allah" is about.....
Bukhari:V5B59N459 I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus."
Doesn't that make you puff up with pride? Why not shout it from the rooftops?
Quote from: Peter on October 28, 2010, 05:54:52 PM
Why deny it and make accusations against me?
Why not proudly proclaim, that in the 7th century of the Christian era, your "Allah" is about.....
Bukhari:V5B59N459 I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus."
Doesn't that make you puff up with pride? Why not shout it from the rooftops?
In this Hadith, what is the lesson according to you? WHAT IS THE SHAME OF A STORY TOLD IN AND HONEST SINCERE MANNER to accurately depict the conditions prevailing at the time?
Why would you site one hadith over and over again out of the thousands of Hadith
Do you understand the purpose of the Hadith?
AGAIN NOTHING BUT LIES AND CONJECTURE:
LIES:IT IS AN INCOMPLETE STORY AND TOLD IN A MANNER TO MISLEAD
Conjecture: You concluded that it is something bad and sinister that did not ever take place in the BIBLE.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 06:03:40 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 28, 2010, 05:54:52 PM
Why deny it and make accusations against me?
Why not proudly proclaim, that in the 7th century of the Christian era, your "Allah" is about.....
Bukhari:V5B59N459 I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus."
Doesn't that make you puff up with pride? Why not shout it from the rooftops?
In this Hadith, what is the lesson according to you? WHAT IS THE SHAME OF A STORY TOLD IN AND HONEST SINCERE MANNER to accurately depict the conditions prevailing at the time?
You mean the conditions prevailing among Mohammed's ignorant, isolated, pagan Arabian Quraish tribe, who built their kaaba in Mecca for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship, and whose black stone idol Muslims still bow toward 5 times a day, and travel to and circumambulate like the pagan Arabians did?
Or the conditions among the more literate but still backwards people of YHWH, who were slaughtered, raped, robbed, and exiled by Mohammed and his followers throughout Arabia?
Or do you mean the conditions prevailing in
the rest of the known world that was quite advanced at the time -
6 centuries into the Christian era? With even a mechanical computer having been built,
over 700 years before Mohammed.The Antikythera Mechanism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
It was 6 centuries into the Christian era, and after YHWH had revealed Himself through Jesus Christ and taught His people to....
Mark 12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt
love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.And so God's people even in the civilized world, were slaughtered by the Romans, and then by the Mohammedans all the way up to France and Austria. Just as His people are slaughtered by Mohammedans all around the world today. Two million killed today in the Sudan alone, and raped and pressed into sexual slavery, by the hands of Mohammedan barbarians.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
But we are taught to expect it because Satan's people have never been able to stand the light of truth.
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 05:02:33 PM
There is no doubt that the Jews had deviated from belief and correct worship of THE GOD, Jesus testifies to this, NABI YAHYA(John the Baptist) was killed for his beliefs and preaching the correct way to worship.
The Apostles and many more 1st century Christians were martyred, purely for holding and proclaiming their beliefs, and "preaching the correct way to worship", just as Jesus did and was martyred for it. (except John - but not for lack of trying!)
Scroll the bolded font titles on this page for the accounts of 1st century martyrdom.
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/martyrs010.htm#67
YouTube details a few
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
That's what martyrdom is.
Not getting killed inadvertently, while engaged in the act of slaughtering (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg8030#msg8030) innocent peaceful people, through imperialistic conquest, as
Mohammed's 7th century law (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1930.msg8247#msg8247) suggests.
Quote from: Peter on October 29, 2010, 08:50:05 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 05:02:33 PM
There is no doubt that the Jews had deviated from belief and correct worship of THE GOD, Jesus testifies to this, NABI YAHYA(John the Baptist) was killed for his beliefs and preaching the correct way to worship.
The Apostles and many more 1st century Christians were martyred, purely for holding and proclaiming their beliefs, and "preaching the correct way to worship", just as Jesus did and was martyred for it. (except John - but not for lack of trying!)
Scroll the bolded font titles on this page for the accounts of 1st century martyrdom.
http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/martyrs010.htm#67
YouTube details a few
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4rtYAO3UxA
That's what martyrdom is.
Not getting killed inadvertently, while engaged in the act of slaughtering innocent peaceful people, through imperialistic conquest, as Mohammed's 7th century law (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1930.msg8247#msg8247) suggests.
That is correct the Apostles were martyred for their beliefs and by the time the bIBLE WAS COMPILED THEY WERE NO LONGER THERE TO GIVE guidance as to the correct translation and interpretation of the 300 year debate amongst the various groups that emerged to the point of finalising the what we now Know as the BIBLE.
"Lists were compiled as early as A.D. 200. The canon we have today was set forth by Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, in his Easter letter of A.D. 367. This list was approved by church councils meeting at Hippo Regius in 393 and Carthage in 397."
Despite data culled from the New Testament and from Jewish, Greek, and Roman writings,
we do not have adequate materials for a biography of Jesus. Our main source for his life is the four gospels of the New Testament, probably composed in the last quarter of the century (about fifty years after Jesus's death), when his utterances and actions, recounted by disciples and their followers, had been reformulated in light of later Christian views of his messiahship. The same historiological dilemma holds for a reconstruction of the gradual process by which Judaism and Christianity separated. A
s a result, our picture of the rise of the new faith must inevitably rely on a considerable amount of conjecture.
What is the source of your copy and paste? Just because you wish something were true, doesn't make it true.
"The last books of the New Testament were written by about 100 A.D. by the apostle John who was still alive at that time. We have over 5300 partial or complete manuscripts of the New Testament penned prior to fourth century A.D. Though not assembled into what we now know now as the New Testament until 300 A.D., those canonical writings of Jesus' apostles were being read all over the known world." (reply on that thread)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0
Regarding the martyrdom of the followers of Jesus Christ ever since the 1st century - indeed so many at the hands of Islam - and your understanding of martyrdom as elsewhere revealed, in detail.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.45
Following two posts moved from extension of "Could God do That" thread
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1908.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself .......
Then why is your holy day on Friday instead of the Sabbath?
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 04:52:11 PM...... and I understand it to be scholars writing in there time for there time according to limited knowledge they had and subsequent translators interpreting the Bookaccording to their beliefs.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 05:27:27 PM
I REJECT THE BOOK (OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK) AS IT IS JUST A BOOK AS ANY OTHER WRITTEN FROM THE HEARTS MINDS OF MEN WITH POLITICAL AGENDAS. IT IS TRANSLATED AND DEVIATED TO THE EXTENT THAT IT IS DIFFICULT TO DISCERN BETWEEN TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD. FURTHER DISTORTED BY POPULAR OPINIONS LIKE YOURSELF>
Then why did you in the post before pretend otherwise when you said "I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself ......"?
That you reject the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind through all of His prophets and witnesses is what I have been saying all along.
Instead you follow Mohammed (and his alter ego "Allah"). We get it.
Quote from: Peter on November 04, 2010, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 05:27:27 PM
I REJECT THE BOOK (OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK) AS IT IS JUST A BOOK AS ANY OTHER WRITTEN FROM THE HEARTS MINDS OF MEN WITH POLITICAL AGENDAS. IT IS TRANSLATED AND DEVIATED TO THE EXTENT THAT IT IS DIFFICULT TO DISCERN BETWEEN TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD. FURTHER DISTORTED BY POPULAR OPINIONS LIKE YOURSELF>
Then why did you in the post before pretend otherwise when you said "I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself ......"?
That you reject the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind through all of His prophets and witnesses is what I have been saying all along.
Instead you follow Mohammed (and his alter ego "Allah"). We get it.
THE MORE I ENGAGE WITH YOU THE MORE I AM SHOWN THE LIGHT THE MORE THE ENGLISH VERSION OF THE BIBLE LOOKS LIKE THE WORK OF SATAN,
I must tell you that I am not allowed to reject the Injeel of Jesus, and not to reject the BOOK (BIBLIOS in Greek or Book in English) of the Christians as it may contain fragments of the original words of the Prophets and as a Muslim I have to be careful not to reject those words like, Hear Ye O' ISrael your LORD THE GOD (ALLAH) is one.
I must offer my apologies as I said that "I reject the BOOK" in anger and I would not even bother with posting anything if I did. I am a human being and asking ALLAH for forgiveness is what I must do everyday, repentance opens ones heart to guidance and that leads to closeness to ALLAH, CREATOR SUSTAINER AND LORD OF THE ENTIRE CREATION>
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: Peter on November 04, 2010, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 05:27:27 PM
I REJECT THE BOOK (OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK) AS IT IS JUST A BOOK AS ANY OTHER WRITTEN FROM THE HEARTS MINDS OF MEN WITH POLITICAL AGENDAS. IT IS TRANSLATED AND DEVIATED TO THE EXTENT THAT IT IS DIFFICULT TO DISCERN BETWEEN TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD. FURTHER DISTORTED BY POPULAR OPINIONS LIKE YOURSELF>
Then why did you in the post before pretend otherwise when you said "I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself ......"?
That you reject the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind through all of His prophets and witnesses is what I have been saying all along.
Instead you follow Mohammed (and his alter ego "Allah"). We get it.
THE MORE I ENGAGE WITH YOU THE MORE I AM SHOWN THE LIGHT THE MORE THE ENGLISH VERSION OF THE BIBLE LOOKS LIKE THE WORK OF SATAN,
That's a good sign! It indicates that you are coming to understand how thoroughly Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record is revealed as the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel. Seems we're making progress!
That's why I keep repeating that ONE MUST CHOOSE - between the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind through ALL of His prophets and witnesses that His people have followed through 2 covenants for 3500 years - or Mohammed and his alter ego "Allah". http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2029.0
Currently you choose to follow the 7th century murdering, prisoner raping, thief.
Soon maybe you will choose to follow the sinless Messiah. The only person in human history ever born of a virgin by the will of God. The Prince of Peace who taught we are to love our neighbors - not smite them at the neck.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 12:20:31 PM
I must tell you that I am not allowed to reject the Injeel of Jesus, and not to reject the BOOK (BIBLIOS in Greek or Book in English) of the Christians as it may contain fragments of the original words of the Prophets and as a Muslim I have to be careful not to reject those words like, Hear Ye O' ISrael your LORD THE GOD (ALLAH) is one.
I must offer my apologies as I said that "I reject the BOOK" in anger and I would not even bother with posting anything if I did.
You can't see this yet but if you can open your hard heart, you will come to realize that once you
quit pretending to acknowledge the Gospel - even as you reject the whole main subject of Jesus' crucifixion, death and resurrection - all you are left with is the ranting of
a single 7th century southwest Arabian desert dwelling illiterate and his alter ego "Allah", that arrived in a desperately insignificant place, 500 years too late.
1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross
is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 12:20:31 PMI am a human being and asking ALLAH for forgiveness is what I must do everyday, repentance opens ones heart to guidance and that leads to closeness to ALLAH, CREATOR SUSTAINER AND LORD OF THE ENTIRE CREATION>
2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 04:52:11 PM
I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself .......
Then why is your holy day on Friday instead of the Sabbath?
More on Mohammed's law breaking.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1932.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 04:52:11 PM...... and I understand it to be scholars writing in there time for there time according to limited knowledge they had and subsequent translators interpreting the Bookaccording to their beliefs.
The fact is the ones present at the time
were the ONLY ones with knowledge OF THEIR TIME.That's what makes the 7th and 8th century created Mohammedan fictional history, that must necessarily be labeled "tradition", such preposterous nonsense.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: Peter on November 04, 2010, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 05:27:27 PM
I REJECT THE BOOK (OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK) AS IT IS JUST A BOOK AS ANY OTHER WRITTEN FROM THE HEARTS MINDS OF MEN WITH POLITICAL AGENDAS. IT IS TRANSLATED AND DEVIATED TO THE EXTENT THAT IT IS DIFFICULT TO DISCERN BETWEEN TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD. FURTHER DISTORTED BY POPULAR OPINIONS LIKE YOURSELF>
Then why did you in the post before pretend otherwise when you said "I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself ......"?
That you reject the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind through all of His prophets and witnesses is what I have been saying all along.
Instead you follow Mohammed (and his alter ego "Allah"). We get it.
THE MORE I ENGAGE WITH YOU THE MORE I AM SHOWN THE LIGHT THE MORE THE ENGLISH VERSION OF THE BIBLE LOOKS LIKE THE WORK OF SATAN,
No versions of the Gospel, in any language, from any period throughout the Christian era, ever have, or do, contradict Jesus' sacrifice on the cross to save mankind from sin. That's what the Gospel - the Messiah and His new covenant - have always been about.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0
That's what Mohammed's 7th century religion is the opposite of. Like the negative of a photograph.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Just like you need to find evidence of Mohammed's religion, ever having existed before Mohammed, why don't you at the same time find for us a version of the New Testament, from any point in history, in any language whatsoever, that tells a different story other than Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross, to save all mankind from sin, through faith in His shed blood?
Heaping on more blasphemy against the Word of God will never magically create thousands of years of history for Mecca.
Surely you can see how futile it is invoke Mohammed's alter ego "Allah", to stand against the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, if you can't even bring any evidence that suggests that Mohammed's religion ever existed before Mohammed.
You are still on probation.
One thread at a time. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8515#msg8515
I would like to thank you for your help with the new thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2023.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 05:02:33 PM
Quote from: Peter on October 28, 2010, 12:06:17 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on October 28, 2010, 11:39:11 AM
SO JESUS CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW THAT GOD SENT? DEUTORONOMY NO LONGER APPLIES
Are you suggesting that Mohammed, or you, keep the law?
Of course not, as I am sure you would agree that only a complete imbecile could suggest that Mohammedans follow the law, when they don't even keep the Sabbath!
"In fact, Muhammad deliberately chose Friday over the Sabbath as a way of degrading the Jews:"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1932.msg8225#msg8225
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha
So have you stopped to consider just why it is, that the only parts of the law that you pick and choose, are those from 3500 years ago at the beginnings of God's revelation, and lessons to primitive man, in efforts to justify Mohammed's purely and thoroughly reprobate 7th century behavior, in the Christian era?
There is no doubt that the Jews had deviated from belief and correct worship of THE GOD, Jesus testifies to this, NABI YAHYA(John the Baptist) was killed for his beliefs and preaching the correct way to worship.
So the law as the Jews had it had to be corrected and the true meaning had to be revealed to the world after further deviation by the Pagan CHRISTIAN writers of NICEAN COUNCIL,
This obviously can't be the reason you follow Mohammed and his alter ego "Allah" instead of YHWH, if for no other reason than
Mohammedan claims, that
the Kaaba was built by Adam (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,25658,26637,26767,27404&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=kaaba+%22built+by+adam%22&cp=7&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=kaaba+%22built+by+adam%22&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=6e8733203d1b4e27) -
the first man on earth.The real historical record tells the true story.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1133.0
Please don't reply to this post until you address the prior post.
Quote from: Peter on November 06, 2010, 06:58:28 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 05, 2010, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: Peter on November 04, 2010, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 04, 2010, 05:27:27 PM
I REJECT THE BOOK (OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK) AS IT IS JUST A BOOK AS ANY OTHER WRITTEN FROM THE HEARTS MINDS OF MEN WITH POLITICAL AGENDAS. IT IS TRANSLATED AND DEVIATED TO THE EXTENT THAT IT IS DIFFICULT TO DISCERN BETWEEN TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD. FURTHER DISTORTED BY POPULAR OPINIONS LIKE YOURSELF>
Then why did you in the post before pretend otherwise when you said "I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself ......"?
That you reject the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind through all of His prophets and witnesses is what I have been saying all along.
Instead you follow Mohammed (and his alter ego "Allah"). We get it.
THE MORE I ENGAGE WITH YOU THE MORE I AM SHOWN THE LIGHT THE MORE THE ENGLISH VERSION OF THE BIBLE LOOKS LIKE THE WORK OF SATAN,
No versions of the Gospel, in any language, from any period throughout the Christian era, ever have, or do, contradict Jesus' sacrifice on the cross to save mankind from sin. That's what the Gospel - the Messiah and His new covenant - have always been about.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0
That's what Mohammed's 7th century religion is the opposite of. Like the negative of a photograph.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Just like you need to find evidence of Mohammed's religion, ever having existed before Mohammed, why don't you at the same time find for us a version of the New Testament, from any point in history, in any language whatsoever, that tells a different story other than Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross, to save all mankind from sin, through faith in His shed blood?
Heaping on more blasphemy against the Word of God will never magically create thousands of years of history for Mecca.
Surely you can see how futile it is invoke Mohammed's alter ego "Allah", to stand against the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, if you can't even bring any evidence that suggests that Mohammed's religion ever existed before Mohammed.
You are still on probation. One thread at a time.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8515#msg8515
I would like to thank you for your help with the new thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2023.0
You discussing two issues in one here
1 THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (MAY ALLAH BESTOW PEACE AND BLESSINGS UPON HIM), I BELIVE (I HAVE THE FIRM CONVICTION, UNDOUBTED APPROACH, FAITH) that the QURAN comes from the Creator of the entire Universe, the words of the Quran in the order and rhyme and sequence and the stories of the Prophets makes complete the religion of all the Prophets that preceded Muhammad. I understand the Life and mission of Nabi EESA fully without blashemy against The scripture (GOD"S WORD) that the LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE.
2. I am not blaspheming against the word of GOD, but I am allowed to point out the mistakes of borne out of incorrect belief about the monotheistic GOD that is on HIS THRONE ABOVE THE HEAVENS. I understand the second coming in light of the current disbelief and false doctrines (anti-christ) against the first command Hear Ye O Israel Your Lord The GOD IS ONE. (NOT A TRIUNE GOD)
MY ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS AS THE MESSIAH IS THE SAME AS IT IS FOR MUHAMMAD THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH,IT IS FROM THE QURAN AND THE SUNNAH, not any other record is needed, I am not looking for proof (THERE IS NO RECORD OUTSIDE THE GOSPELS OF JESUS EVER HAVING EXISTED). MANY WROTE ABOUT MUHAMMAD.
THE 1600 year record is inaccurate and wracked by contradictions and absurdities as many a critique has proven beyond doubt.
I SAY SAMSON IS A SUICIDE MARTYR YOU SAY HE IS A SELF SACRIFICE MARTYR (SELF SACRIFICE DESCRIBES EVERY MUSLIM MARTYR IN THE TIME OF MUHAMMAD)
I AM REALLY SHOCKED AT YOUR THREATS, WHY WOULD YOU SHUT DOWN A DISCUSSION? MENTAL DEFEAT, Uneasy questions, your blasphemy is by far the worst I have encountered from a person, and the rudest possible tone is used and you impose a ban on me? What arrogance, what happened to your other cheek?
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
You discussing two issues in one here
1 THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (MAY ALLAH BESTOW PEACE AND BLESSINGS UPON HIM), I BELIVE (I HAVE THE FIRM CONVICTION, UNDOUBTED APPROACH, FAITH) that the QURAN comes from the Creator of the entire Universe, the words of the Quran in the order and rhyme and sequence and the stories of the Prophets makes complete the religion of all the Prophets that preceded Muhammad. I understand the Life and mission of Nabi EESA fully without blashemy against The scripture (GOD"S WORD) that the LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE.
But firm conviction is not proof. To call it proof is to assume my or anyone else's firm conviction is of less value, but that again would only rely on your firm conviction.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
2. I am not blaspheming against the word of GOD, but I am allowed to point out the mistakes of borne out of incorrect belief about the monotheistic GOD that is on HIS THRONE ABOVE THE HEAVENS. I understand the second coming in light of the current disbelief and false doctrines (anti-christ) against the first command Hear Ye O Israel Your Lord The GOD IS ONE. (NOT A TRIUNE GOD)
Not by Muhammad's standard you aren't. But by the standard of Jesus, whom will judge you, you are. You haven't pointed out a single mistake. All you have done is highlighted your own misconceptions of scripture. And your problem with the idea of God being complex enough to have three parts that make a whole is astounding considering every human being is at least that complex. Are you not mind, body and spirit?
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
MY ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS AS THE MESSIAH IS THE SAME AS IT IS FOR MUHAMMAD THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH,IT IS FROM THE QURAN AND THE SUNNAH, not any other record is needed, I am not looking for proof (THERE IS NO RECORD OUTSIDE THE GOSPELS OF JESUS EVER HAVING EXISTED). MANY WROTE ABOUT MUHAMMAD.
That simply is not true. Only the staunchest agnostics and atheists deny that a man named Jesus, who was a teacher, left no record outside of the Gospels. Furthermore the earliest Christian writings date back to 5-10 years after His crucifixion and resurrection. Conversly the oldest surviving Qur'an is over 100 years after the time of Muhammad and the hadith along with it. You may want to reconsider going down that road again.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
THE 1600 year record is inaccurate and wracked by contradictions and absurdities as many a critique has proven beyond doubt.
That is patently false. Obviously those predisposed to disbelieve it are going to attack it, but it is laughable that you would speak of absurdities in the Bible when over half of the Qur'an has been abrogated because Muhammad couldn't keep his story straight.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
I SAY SAMSON IS A SUICIDE MARTYR YOU SAY HE IS A SELF SACRIFICE MARTYR (SELF SACRIFICE DESCRIBES EVERY MUSLIM MARTYR IN THE TIME OF MUHAMMAD)
Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? Because that is what happened to millions over the years at the spread of Islam.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
I AM REALLY SHOCKED AT YOUR THREATS, WHY WOULD YOU SHUT DOWN A DISCUSSION? MENTAL DEFEAT, Uneasy questions, your blasphemy is by far the worst I have encountered from a person, and the rudest possible tone is used and you impose a ban on me? What arrogance, what happened to your other cheek?
You were warned against personal attacks as well as your continued ignoring of responses to your posts. The discussion is not closed but you must engage for it to continue. You have leveled accusation after accusation without offering a shred of proof to substantiate them. This pattern is not conducive to a meaningful discussion. That is why you have been given specific instructions until you learn manners.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on November 08, 2010, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
MY ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS AS THE MESSIAH IS THE SAME AS IT IS FOR MUHAMMAD THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH,IT IS FROM THE QURAN AND THE SUNNAH, not any other record is needed, I am not looking for proof (THERE IS NO RECORD OUTSIDE THE GOSPELS OF JESUS EVER HAVING EXISTED). MANY WROTE ABOUT MUHAMMAD.
That simply is not true. Only the staunchest agnostics and atheists deny that a man named Jesus, who was a teacher, left no record outside of the Gospels. Furthermore the earliest Christian writings date back to 5-10 years after His crucifixion and resurrection. Conversly the oldest surviving Qur'an is over 100 years after the time of Muhammad and the hadith along with it. You may want to reconsider going down that road again.
Nor is there any major sect of Judaism that does not recognize that Jesus existed.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on November 08, 2010, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
I SAY SAMSON IS A SUICIDE MARTYR YOU SAY HE IS A SELF SACRIFICE MARTYR (SELF SACRIFICE DESCRIBES EVERY MUSLIM MARTYR IN THE TIME OF MUHAMMAD)
Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? Because that is what happened to millions over the years at the spread of Islam.
He condemned imperialistic Islamic conquest, at the same time as he embraced it. According to his own definition.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg8030#msg8030
Quote from: Peter on November 08, 2010, 12:21:23 PM
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on November 08, 2010, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
MY ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS AS THE MESSIAH IS THE SAME AS IT IS FOR MUHAMMAD THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH,IT IS FROM THE QURAN AND THE SUNNAH, not any other record is needed, I am not looking for proof (THERE IS NO RECORD OUTSIDE THE GOSPELS OF JESUS EVER HAVING EXISTED). MANY WROTE ABOUT MUHAMMAD.
That simply is not true. Only the staunchest agnostics and atheists deny that a man named Jesus, who was a teacher, left no record outside of the Gospels. Furthermore the earliest Christian writings date back to 5-10 years after His crucifixion and resurrection. Conversly the oldest surviving Qur'an is over 100 years after the time of Muhammad and the hadith along with it. You may want to reconsider going down that road again.
I am not sure how to engage in a conversation with someone that twists and distorts everything one says, you are in such a bad habit of making everything conjecture or contrived logic when I state things clearly and plainly to you.
YOU DENYING THE BENEFIT MUSLIMS BROUGHT TO ENTIRE WORLD? ARE YOU GOING TO IGNORE THE BENEFIT TO CHRISTIANITY ITSELF FROM SPAIN TO CHINA AND AFRICA, THE IMMENSE DEVELOPMENT IN ALL THE FIELDS OF MODERN CIVILIZATION? YOU CALL IT IMPERIALISTIC CONQUESTS THE REST OF THE WORLD CALLS IT PROGRESS.
I AM SPEAKING FROM AN ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE,(THE TRUTH OF THE PROPHETS) MARTYR IS A MUSLIM THAT IS WILLING TO GIVE HIS LIFE FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH SO THAT THE TRUTH MAY PREVAIL, HE PREFERS PEACE OVER WAR, HE PREFERS LEARNING OVER FIGHTING AND YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND ISLAM AS YOU WOULD BE SO FAR OFF THE MARK WITH YOU MEDIA BRAINWASHED THEORIES>
Nor is there any major sect of Judaism that does not recognize that Jesus existed.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on November 08, 2010, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 08, 2010, 08:58:53 AM
I SAY SAMSON IS A SUICIDE MARTYR YOU SAY HE IS A SELF SACRIFICE MARTYR (SELF SACRIFICE DESCRIBES EVERY MUSLIM MARTYR IN THE TIME OF MUHAMMAD)
Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? Because that is what happened to millions over the years at the spread of Islam.
He condemned imperialistic Islamic conquest, at the same time as he embraced it. According to his own definition.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg8030#msg8030
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 02:39:41 AM
I am not sure how to engage in a conversation with someone that twists and distorts everything one says, you are in such a bad habit of making everything conjecture or contrived logic when I state things clearly and plainly to you.
Another baseless accusation. I did not twist your words. You said there was no evidence outside the NT that Jesus existed. I showed you that you were wrong. Simple as that.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 02:39:41 AM
YOU DENYING THE BENEFIT MUSLIMS BROUGHT TO ENTIRE WORLD? ARE YOU GOING TO IGNORE THE BENEFIT TO CHRISTIANITY ITSELF FROM SPAIN TO CHINA AND AFRICA, THE IMMENSE DEVELOPMENT IN ALL THE FIELDS OF MODERN CIVILIZATION? YOU CALL IT IMPERIALISTIC CONQUESTS THE REST OF THE WORLD CALLS IT PROGRESS.
I most certainly do. Islam has always been good at taking from others and passing off as its' own those things it couldn't do itself. The number system so many muslims crow about is from pre-Islamic India, philosophy from Greece, architecture from Byzantium, etc. In fact it was arabic speaking Jews and Christians that made the first inroads in the medical field during Islam's "golden age". Not muslims. Islam just claimed these things for itself since those Jews and Christians were dhimmis. But let's assume that Islam created this great golden age it still doesn't excuse murder, conquest, and pillaging. Period. And if you will note from history the moment Islamic expansion declined so did its' "achievements". Why do you think Islamic countries are still struggling to keep up today. They possess all that oil and all the capital necessary to lead the world in technological achievements and yet they contribute next to nothing to any field of science today.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 02:39:41 AM
I AM SPEAKING FROM AN ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE,(THE TRUTH OF THE PROPHETS) MARTYR IS A MUSLIM THAT IS WILLING TO GIVE HIS LIFE FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH SO THAT THE TRUTH MAY PREVAIL, HE PREFERS PEACE OVER WAR, HE PREFERS LEARNING OVER FIGHTING AND YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND ISLAM AS YOU WOULD BE SO FAR OFF THE MARK WITH YOU MEDIA BRAINWASHED THEORIES>
You are sidestepping the question. If someone dies trying to push his way of life on another then he is not a martyr, just stupid and evil. Their is a difference in dying for what you believe in and killing and being killed for it. So answer the question once and for all or this discussion will stalemate.
"...Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? "
Also please learn to quote properly. Fixing these is growing taxing.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on November 09, 2010, 03:14:42 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 02:39:41 AM
You are sidestepping the question. If someone dies trying to push his way of life on another then he is not a martyr, just stupid and evil. Their is a difference in dying for what you believe in and killing and being killed for it. So answer the question once and for all or this discussion will stalemate.
"...Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? "
Also please learn to quote properly. Fixing these is growing taxing.
QuoteYOU TRYING TO FORCE ME TO SEE IT YOUR WAY AND THAT IS NOT A STALEMATE IF I DONT. A SHAHEED IS A MUSLIM, A NON MUSLIM IS NOT A MARTYR, No Muslims forced anything on anyone, Muslims have to ask to enter peacefully and when threatened with war if they try to enter the city they are entitled to defend themselves. This is the Islamic way. USUALLY THE ARROGANCE OF THE POLITICIANS LIKE THE QURAISH DID IN JAHILLIYYAH CAUSES WAR. THE WAY YOU FEEL EVERY-TIME THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS EMBRACE ISLAM IS THE SAME WAY THE POLITICIANS FEEL WHEN MUSLIMS ASK TO ENTER THE CITIES>
MY ANSWERS, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ENOUGH ABOUT FAITH AND ISLAM TO UNDERSTAND MY ANSWER, too sophisticated for a disbeliever.
The City does not have to refuse the entry to Muslims like most cities do today, that is why there is no declaration of Jihaad against the city and any act that results in death is murder.
READ THE STORIES OF THE BATTLES FOUGHT IN ISLAM PROPERLY, MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM, battles were entered into when a peaceful settlement could not be reached, Jerusalem is a classical case of a peaceful settlement by Umr (may ALLAH be pleased with him)
Let me answer the Question of "would I consider;..." and I do believe that it refers to the American way of doing business, where they threaten any country that ha a resource and they want it (OIL) they will enter the country and force their version of democracy on the country after they have wreaked havoc with the economy by sanctions and slander of the leaders. SOUND FAMILIAR? IRAN IRAQ ring any bells.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
YOU TRYING TO FORCE ME TO SEE IT YOUR WAY AND THAT IS NOT A STALEMATE IF I DONT. A SHAHEED IS A MUSLIM, A NON MUSLIM IS NOT A MARTYR, No Muslims forced anything on anyone, Muslims have to ask to enter peacefully and when threatened with war if they try to enter the city they are entitled to defend themselves. This is the Islamic way. USUALLY THE ARROGANCE OF THE POLITICIANS LIKE THE QURAISH DID IN JAHILLIYYAH CAUSES WAR. THE WAY YOU FEEL EVERY-TIME THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS EMBRACE ISLAM IS THE SAME WAY THE POLITICIANS FEEL WHEN MUSLIMS ASK TO ENTER THE CITIES>
I am not trying to force you to see it my way. I am trying to bring some empathy out in you. Muhammad made it clear in the Qur'an
Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
That is a command to force Islam on people. It is simple as that. Along with...
Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
and especially...
Qur'an:8:39 "
Fight them until all opposition ends and
all submit to Allah."
These verses came late in Muhammad's prophetic career abrogating any "peaceful" verses. These were and are open ended commands to force Islam on the world. So even Islamic history disagrees with you Mujaheed. I also find it interesting that you think only muslims can be martyrs. This line of thought prevents you from putting yourselves in the shoes of a person of another faith and seeing the injustice of having another religion forced on you.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
MY ANSWERS, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ENOUGH ABOUT FAITH AND ISLAM TO UNDERSTAND MY ANSWER, too sophisticated for a disbeliever.
Oh I see. You are far too intelligent for a simpleton like me to grasp your logic. OK let's recap.
1. I ask how could Mecca be the epicenter of God's worship for the world if no archaelogical evidence exists for its' existence before 4 AD. Your answer...
2. I ask how can you trust the word of someone who cites his own word as proof. Your answer...
3. I ask how can you trust someone who admitted to confusing satan's voice with God's. Your answer...
4. I ask if you would consider a person of another faith a martyr if they were killed forcing their faith on you. Your answer: No because they aren't muslim
5. I ask you if someone killed your father and brother would you want to sleep with them. Your answer...
There are more but that should do for now. I also noticed how you brilliantly avoided those questions when posed to you so many times.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
The City does not have to refuse the entry to Muslims like most cities do today, that is why there is no declaration of Jihaad against the city and any act that results in death is murder.
Why do you think out of all religions on earth that Islam has the hardest time being introduced peacefully into a new region? Of course people are hesitant to allow Islam in when they are threatened like in the case of Heraclius. Furthermore it is a matter of freedom of choice. If a nation refuses Islam it is not your right to war with them in the first place. The fact you cannot grasp that is telling of the twisted mess Islam has made of your intellect.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
READ THE STORIES OF THE BATTLES FOUGHT IN ISLAM PROPERLY, MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM, battles were entered into when a peaceful settlement could not be reached, Jerusalem is a classical case of a peaceful settlement by Umr (may ALLAH be pleased with him)
By properly you mean with the same indoctrination you employ. Furthermore your statement that "MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM" is a patent lie as I demonstrated above.
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
So the choice is die or convert. At least as a Christian I could pay the jizya. But I will take option 4 and just say no thanks to dying by Islam's hand, no to the jizya, and no to conversion.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
Let me answer the Question of "would I consider;..." and I do believe that it refers to the American way of doing business, where they threaten any country that ha a resource and they want it (OIL) they will enter the country and force their version of democracy on the country after they have wreaked havoc with the economy by sanctions and slander of the leaders. SOUND FAMILIAR? IRAN IRAQ ring any bells.
Stop obfuscating by going off on tangents. Just answer the question succinctly. Despite your erroneous views on democracy, which was invented in the West and only has representation in the Middle east because of Israel, and your patently false statement concerning American business you still managed not to answer the question. But to address your claim. The Iraq war had nothing to do with oil. We have plenty of oil here and other suppliers to boot, Iraq was in possession of WMD left over from the Gulf war era and Sadam had no qualms using them on people he didn't like. When asked to allow UN inspectors in to investigate his sites he barred their way. He did this for years. He had a record of human rights abuses as well as hostility to other nations that had not provoked him(Kuwait). He snubbed his nose at the UN and broke sanctions repeatedly. The world simply is a better place without him in it. Personally I feel America should have engaged Iran and Saudi Arabia instead since Iran is an immediate threat to world peace and Saudi Arabia was responsible for training, indoctrinating, financing, and sending 15 of the 19 9/11 hijakers. But all of that is beside the point. We are discussing a simple question.
"...Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? "
If you cannot or will not answer do not fill this thread with unrelated topics. If you want to discuss the Iraq war go to the hundreds of left leaning websites, forums, blogs etc that love to bash those with the courage to stand up to Islamic aggression instead of wasting space here. Also learn to quote properly. Your lack of care in this regard is indicative of your lack of care in general. Whether in regards to manners, others viewpoints, or the time others take crafting their responses. When you return either engage by answering questions succinctly and clearly without obfuscating, using foul language and other insults, and spamming or do not bother returning. Quite frankly it is long since time for me to stop casting my pearls before you.
QuoteQuote from: resistingrexmundi on November 09, 2010, 09:22:11 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
YOU TRYING TO FORCE ME TO SEE IT YOUR WAY AND THAT IS NOT A STALEMATE IF I DONT. A SHAHEED IS A MUSLIM, A NON MUSLIM IS NOT A MARTYR, No Muslims forced anything on anyone, Muslims have to ask to enter peacefully and when threatened with war if they try to enter the city they are entitled to defend themselves. This is the Islamic way. USUALLY THE ARROGANCE OF THE POLITICIANS LIKE THE QURAISH DID IN JAHILLIYYAH CAUSES WAR. THE WAY YOU FEEL EVERY-TIME THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS EMBRACE ISLAM IS THE SAME WAY THE POLITICIANS FEEL WHEN MUSLIMS ASK TO ENTER THE CITIES>
I am not trying to force you to see it my way. I am trying to bring some empathy out in you. Muhammad made it clear in the Qur'an
Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
That is a command to force Islam on people. It is simple as that. Along with...
Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
and especially...
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
These verses came late in Muhammad's prophetic career abrogating any "peaceful" verses. These were and are open ended commands to force Islam on the world. So even Islamic history disagrees with you Mujaheed. I also find it interesting that you think only muslims can be martyrs. This line of thought prevents you from putting yourselves in the shoes of a person of another faith and seeing the injustice of having another religion forced on you.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
MY ANSWERS, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ENOUGH ABOUT FAITH AND ISLAM TO UNDERSTAND MY ANSWER, too sophisticated for a disbeliever.
Let me be courteous and answer the questions pose, firstly you trying to convince me with a book that is clearly not from the account handed down by the Prophets but the version of doctrines of writers and scribes and translators. It is not verified and because they all agree more or less means that the Text have been clearly edited to conform with the source. very few could write and those who wanted to learn would copy text from older text hence the vast amount of parchments (not books) all not conforming were burnt on several occasions, which translates to only those that agree have been preserved.
Empathy I reserve for believers not slanderers and those who openly call conjecture the truth.
The Quranic verses are quoted out of context and without the hadith that accompanies them, you cannot quote verses in Isolation, It is like calling Jesus a coward and a pacifist for turning the other cheek. Believers fight for the truth and are killed and killed and this is in no way unique to muslims, in fact when comes to killing and being killed I believe that USA is the current leader in warfare. The Muslims must fight disbelievers, as they are the ones that wreak havoc on earth, they and the Christians brought untold suffering on more than half the population on earth, we forget African slavery, American Red Indian Massacres, I believe that the Cowboys built churches everywhere they went and called the killing of the Red Indiand self defense, how is that different to Muhammad, the Dutch raided Indonesia, and the Southern Tip of Africa, Hitler a Christian hated the Jews and Christians watched and only reacted when England was threatened, then all Christian countries refused to give the Jewish refugees a place except the palestinians and they paying the price for the allowing treacherous Jews to once again enter Palestine. Vietnam, San Salvador, Afghanistan Iraq and the List goes on and on. You may want sweep in front of your own door.
The propaganda machine is making Muslims out to be terrorist while the vast majority lives in Peace with much less crime than in any Non muslim country, You paying much more than Jizya in your own country, oh I forgot the Government is calling it Taxes wait a minute taxes means Jizya in ARABIC.
Quote from: resistingrexmundi on November 09, 2010, 09:22:11 AM
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
Oh I see. You are far too intelligent for a simpleton like me to grasp your logic. OK let's recap.
1. I ask how could Mecca be the epicenter of God's worship for the world if no archaelogical evidence exists for its' existence before 4 AD. Your answer...
2. I ask how can you trust the word of someone who cites his own word as proof. Your answer...
3. I ask how can you trust someone who admitted to confusing satan's voice with God's. Your answer...
4. I ask if you would consider a person of another faith a martyr if they were killed forcing their faith on you. Your answer: No because they aren't muslim
5. I ask you if someone killed your father and brother would you want to sleep with them. Your answer...
There are more but that should do for now. I also noticed how you brilliantly avoided those questions when posed to you so many times.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
The City does not have to refuse the entry to Muslims like most cities do today, that is why there is no declaration of Jihaad against the city and any act that results in death is murder.
Why do you think out of all religions on earth that Islam has the hardest time being introduced peacefully into a new region? Of course people are hesitant to allow Islam in when they are threatened like in the case of Heraclius. Furthermore it is a matter of freedom of choice. If a nation refuses Islam it is not your right to war with them in the first place. The fact you cannot grasp that is telling of the twisted mess Islam has made of your intellect.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
READ THE STORIES OF THE BATTLES FOUGHT IN ISLAM PROPERLY, MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM, battles were entered into when a peaceful settlement could not be reached, Jerusalem is a classical case of a peaceful settlement by Umr (may ALLAH be pleased with him)
By properly you mean with the same indoctrination you employ. Furthermore your statement that "MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM" is a patent lie as I demonstrated above.
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
So the choice is die or convert. At least as a Christian I could pay the jizya. But I will take option 4 and just say no thanks to dying by Islam's hand, no to the jizya, and no to conversion.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 09, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
Let me answer the Question of "would I consider;..." and I do believe that it refers to the American way of doing business, where they threaten any country that ha a resource and they want it (OIL) they will enter the country and force their version of democracy on the country after they have wreaked havoc with the economy by sanctions and slander of the leaders. SOUND FAMILIAR? IRAN IRAQ ring any bells.
QuoteStop obfuscating by going off on tangents. Just answer the question succinctly. Despite your erroneous views on democracy, which was invented in the West and only has representation in the Middle east because of Israel, and your patently false statement concerning American business you still managed not to answer the question. But to address your claim. The Iraq war had nothing to do with oil. We have plenty of oil here and other suppliers to boot, Iraq was in possession of WMD left over from the Gulf war era and Sadam had no qualms using them on people he didn't like. When asked to allow UN inspectors in to investigate his sites he barred their way. He did this for years. He had a record of human rights abuses as well as hostility to other nations that had not provoked him(Kuwait). He snubbed his nose at the UN and broke sanctions repeatedly. The world simply is a better place without him in it. Personally I feel America should have engaged Iran and Saudi Arabia instead since Iran is an immediate threat to world peace and Saudi Arabia was responsible for training, indoctrinating, financing, and sending 15 of the 19 9/11 hijakers. But all of that is beside the point. We are discussing a simple question
.
"...Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? "
If you cannot or will not answer do not fill this thread with unrelated topics. If you want to discuss the Iraq war go to the hundreds of left leaning websites, forums, blogs etc that love to bash those with the courage to stand up to Islamic aggression instead of wasting space here. Also learn to quote properly. Your lack of care in this regard is indicative of your lack of care in general. Whether in regards to manners, others viewpoints, or the time others take crafting their responses. When you return either engage by answering questions succinctly and clearly without obfuscating, using foul language and other insults, and spamming or do not bother returning. Quite frankly it is long since time for me to stop casting my pearls before you.
You are brainwashed if you believe the media version of the Iraqi war, You are seriously delusional and belong to the minority of Americans and obviously a BUSH supporter, by the way Bush is in bed with the ARABS more particularly the Bin Ladens, Bush is a failed oil man trying to make his mark by trying to lay a pipeline through Afghanistan, and taking control of Iraq, it is about OIL, no WMD's have been found to this day. I never liked Saddam but I hate the killing of women children even more in any country. The media is an entertaining side show to the truth. The result is that everyone including Christian Iraqis are suffering far worse than they did under Saddam due the war that is raging. They are going to exploited like the human cattle like they do in Capitalistic states, in the name of democracy and the benefactors will be big corporations and a few families, like the pharoahs and kings and oppressors of the past.
I cannot discuss anything with you as you are not open minded you can only see the political media biased version, open your eyes and look at the situation in light of scripture and the warnings of the Prophets that came before. What happened to turn the other cheek and Saddam was no where near USA or any of the countries involved in its pillaging and looting.
To answer your question, who dies as a martyr is clearly stated and I gave you the Hadith but you persist with your opinions and conjecture. Opposition to the Truth of GOD (QURAN) and as a result you die opposing the truth your judgment is in the hands of GOD. Being killed spreading the truth you are a martyr. NOT SPREADING THE OPINION AND CONJECTURE OF KNOWN OR UNKNOWN AUTHORS.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
Let me be courteous and answer the questions pose, firstly you trying to convince me with a book that is clearly not from the account handed down by the Prophets but the version of doctrines of writers and scribes and translators. It is not verified and because they all agree more or less means that the Text have been clearly edited to conform with the source. very few could write and those who wanted to learn would copy text from older text hence the vast amount of parchments (not books) all not conforming were burnt on several occasions, which translates to only those that agree have been preserved.
They "clearly conform" because they all share the same inspiration. Archaelogical evidence abounds in Jerusalem for the events depicted in the Bible as well as the surrounding areas for some of the other events. But I am not here to debate each and every story from the bible. We are talking specifically of Mecca. If no evidence exists of its' existence before 4 AD then logic dictates that it could not have been central to man's worship of God since the beginning of time.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
Empathy I reserve for believers not slanderers and those who openly call conjecture the truth.
That is not true empathy. If you cannot empathize with people that you don't agree with then you are only choosing to see things from the perspective of people who think like you. That isn't empathy. And I have already pointed out to you that conjecture is believing the word of a liar who called himself a prophet, who also couldn't distinguish between satan's voice and God's. That he admitted himself.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
The Quranic verses are quoted out of context and without the hadith that accompanies them, you cannot quote verses in Isolation, It is like calling Jesus a coward and a pacifist for turning the other cheek. Believers fight for the truth and are killed and killed and this is in no way unique to muslims, in fact when comes to killing and being killed I believe that USA is the current leader in warfare.
Muhammad was the instigator in every single one of his conflicts with the Quraysh. He violated accepted social mores at every turn and spread Islam through bloodshed.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
The Muslims must fight disbelievers, as they are the ones that wreak havoc on earth, they and the Christians brought untold suffering on more than half the population on earth, we forget African slavery,
The muslims fight anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Just like Muhammad. Christians, if they truly be Christian, must treat everyone how they wish to be treated. Period. Just because someone calls themself Christian does not make it so. And as for slavery it was John Brown who citing the "golden rule" in his defence for the Harper's Ferry massacre that brought the issue to the forefront. It was Christianity that helped lead the way in its' abolition in the west. Slavery is an ancient institution that has been abolished everywhere Christianity has flourished. Yet there are still Islamic countries today that practice it. So you can squelch that non-sense now. Besides you explain to me how the institution of slavery harmonizes with...
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
If anyone does not follow these tenets by what right does he call himself Christian?
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
American Red Indian Massacres, I believe that the Cowboys built churches everywhere they went and called the killing of the Red Indiand self defense, how is that different to Muhammad,
Without getting into the specifics of each of these case I would cite the above answer. And you fail to mention the Christian Missionaries that went among them caring for their sick and injured. So spare me. Out of the two groups who do you think exemplified Christ? And Jesus warned that many would kill in the name of God but would not be his followers.
Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Jhn 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
the Dutch raided Indonesia, and the Southern Tip of Africa,
These things were going on in the world before the advent of Christ. As I have said before if they did not follow Jesus' command to love and treat one another equitibly by what right do they call themselves Christian?
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
Hitler a Christian hated the Jews and Christians watched and only reacted when England was threatened,
I am so glad you brought up Hitler.
The fact that the Japanese have retained their political philosophy, which is one of the essential reasons for their success, is due to their having been saved in time from the views of Christianity. Just as in Islam, there is no terrorism in the Japanese State religion, but, on the contrary, a promise of happiness. This terrorism in religion is , to put it briefly, of a Jewish dogma, which Christianity has universalized and whose effect is to sow trouble and confusion in men’s minds.
4 April 1942
Under the guidance of the Reich, Europe would speedily have become unified. Once the Jewish poison had been eradicated, unification would have been an easy matter. France and Italy, each defeated in turn at an interval of a few months by the two Germanic Powers, would have been well out of it. Both would have had to renounce their inappropriate aspirations to greatness. At the same time they would have had to renounce their pretentions in North Africa and the Near East; and that would have allowed Europe to pursue a bold policy of friendship towards Islam.
4th February 1945
All Islam vibrated at the news of our victories. The Egyptians, the Irakis and the whole of the Near East were all ready to rise in revolt. Just think what we could have done to help them, even to incite them, as would have been both our duty and in our own interest!...The Sword of Islam evokes the same sneering chuckle now as it did before the war. This title, which is fitting for Mahomed and a great conqueror like Omar, Mussolini caused to be conferred on himself by a few wretched brutes whom he had either bribed or terrorized into doing so. We had a great chance of pursuing a splendid policy with regard to Islam.
17th February 1945
The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France.
2nd April 1945
I could go on from there but my point is made. Hitler had long ago abandoned whatever temporal ties he had to Christianity and favored Islam. Especially because of its' long standing history of hatred for Jews. He even went so far as to ally with the Grand Mufti Husseini from Jerusalem to create panzer units and help annihilate the Jews. Furthermore, as I have shown by what measure would he call himself Christian?
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
then all Christian countries refused to give the Jewish refugees a place except the palestinians and they paying the price for the allowing treacherous Jews to once again enter Palestine. Vietnam, San Salvador, Afghanistan Iraq and the List goes on and on. You may want sweep in front of your own door.
Many Jews migrated to the US and other countries at that time. But it was only right that they should return to their HOMELAND that even the Qur'an acknowledges that they are to return to. And arab countries did everything in their power to keep the Jews out of their HOMELAND.Palestine has never existed as a country. In fact their was a time when Palestinian referred to Jews in the Holy Land. The muslims their regarded the term with disdain and many of them considered themselves Syrians. So again save yourself the embarrasment and stick to the topic being discussed.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 16, 2010, 03:12:54 AM
The propaganda machine is making Muslims out to be terrorist while the vast majority lives in Peace with much less crime than in any Non muslim country, You paying much more than Jizya in your own country, oh I forgot the Government is calling it Taxes wait a minute taxes means Jizya in ARABIC.
Muslim terrorists are making muslims out to be terrorists. And while many muslims do live in peace many do not. And Muhammad certainly did not. And we pay taxes for health-care, road repair, social endeavors etc. We do not pay taxes because of what we believe. And that is the difference.
QuoteThey "clearly conform" because they all share the same inspiration. Archaelogical evidence abounds in Jerusalem for the events depicted in the Bible as well as the surrounding areas for some of the other events.
These are words of a conjecturer, no clear evidence and the ispiration is very much political, self serving and in the Words of the prophets corrupted and twisted, hence the need for more Prophets to be sent by God progressively. Biblical scholars are the only ones that concur most of the archeologist say that you cannot be 100% sure. Pots and buildings dont tell stories they indicate that the population existed, in what condition is open to speculation. If no evidence exists with you, then you are convincing yourself of an absurdity, you willing to believe a book by unknown scribes and pharisees whole heartedly based on the feeling in your heart but not logic and clear evidence of a presented by a man called Al Ameen in his life time? The Ka'aba is your evidence, the Zam Zam (thank you for the analysis, I presented it to a food technologist and he was amazed at the properties, near perfect water that will not form algae). The Quran is your evidence, but you are not a believer in ONE GOD OF THE PROPHETS YOU BELIVE THAT THE GOD IS THREE SEPARATE ENTITIES BUT YOU TRYING CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT YOU WORSHIP ONE GOD THAT CAN BE A SON AND A SPIRIT WHEN HE CHOOSES (SATAN IS THE SHAPE SHIFTER)
QuoteMuhammad was the instigator in
I KNOW YOU ALWAYS CHOOSE THE SIDE OF PAGANS, NOW YOU SAYING YOU FAVOR THE QURAISH AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SHOULD NOT HAVE INTRODUCE THE RELIGION OF ONE GOD WORSHIP INTO ARABIA? JUST LIKE YOU FAVOR THE WORDS OF PAGAN GREEK AND ROMAN WRITERS OVER THE JEWISH AND ARAB WRITERS? I KNOW THAT YOU THINK EUROPEANS TO BE SUPERIOR TO GOD'S PEOPLE AND IF IT IS NOT FROM A EUROPEAN IT CANT BE TRUE!! PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND CHOOSE THE WORDS OF THE PEOPLE TO WHOM SCRIPTURES WERE REVEALED.
QuoteThat is not true empathy. If you cannot empathize with people that you don't agree with then you are only choosing to see things from the perspective of people who think like you.
The reason I am here is due to my empathy for human beings in the context of the truth, everyone deserves to be given the choice of the truth. Muslims act like Jesus, we preach the Truth, but when we are opposed we will not stand idly by to be crucified. Any one hung on a tree is cursed your book says. We will defend ourselves against the enemy of truth, as best we can. This does not include, rape, murder, revenge, burning of crops, stealing the possessions, we are entitled to the property of those slain. This is the reality, not a Buddhist philosophy of non violence passive resistance that leaves everyone to their own devices with politically motivated dogmas controlling the populace. Look at the world and see how this philosophy of "everyone may do as they please" have taken even Islamic countries to the brink of self destruction.
Islam is clear, worship none but ALLAH in the manner shown to us by the Prophets of ALLAH from Adam to Muhammad.
By the way prophets were sent to every nation, the Bani Israeel were favored with many being sent with scripture to them.
QuoteGal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
The global village of Satan of Queers and prostitutes and lesbians and molesters in the church and fornicators in colleges, and sex on every channel on TV and Movies and even the Christian Movies have the breast of woman displayed provocatively, and no-one is wrong in the lifestyle the portray, it is all acceptable as long as the (holy spirit/demon/ghost/deity) enters into you. It will guide you. wonderful alice in wonderland concept you have there. Wake up to reality, check the rape stats, murder, incest, criminals in the Jails, corruption in business and the general state of the city you living in. The verse are absurd as it it reads like line from Confucius Philosophy (contradictory truths), We are all in Christ, I think the Jews will disagree, as will the greeks and the other Nations, and please don't try to tell me I don't understand the lines, your conjecture is going to say that the entire human race is one body in the CHRIST. SO CHRIST IS IN ALL ACCORDING TO THESE LINES? THE HOLY GHOST IS IN ALL, GOD IS IN ALL OF US?
Quoteesus warned that many would kill in the name of God but would not be his followers.
Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Jhn 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
IS THIS NOT REFERRING TO A WARNING OF PAUL OR SAUL OF TARSUS WHO KILLED THEN STARTED TO DO GOD'S SERVICE?BECAUSE HE DID NOT KNOW JESUS DID HE, AND HE WAS NOT LIKED BY THE DISCIPLES EITHER.
MUSIMS DEFINITELY DO NOT DRIVE THE JEWS OUT THEIR SYNAGOGUES ON THE CONTRARY MOST JEWS THRIVE IN MUSLIMS COUNTRIES. LOOK HOW STRONG THEY ARE IN PALESTINE.
QuoteMany Jews migrated to the US and other countries at that time. But it was only right that they should return to their HOMELAND
THE LIES AND THE PROPAGANDA, THE LIES AND THE PROPAGANDA, THESE ARE NOT SETTLERS IN PALESTINE, THESE ARE INHABITANTS THAT ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE BANI ISRAEEL, YOU ACT AS IF NO CHRISTIANS OR JEWS BECAME MUSLIM AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY. 5 BCE THE LAND IS KNOWN AS PALSETINE WITH BAITUL MUKADIS IN THE CENTRE WHERE JERUSALEM IS NOW.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Medieval_Arab_Palestine.jpg
(//)
The term “Arab,†as well as the presence of Arabs in the Syrian desert and the Fertile Crescent, is first seen in the Assyrian sources from the 9th century BCE (Eph'al 1984).[115]"The Fellahin in Eretz-Israel are the descendants of remnants of the Hebrew agricultural community,"[92] believing them to be descendants of the ancient Hebrew and Canaanite residents 'together with a small admixture of Arab blood'".[91] He further believed that the Palestinian peasantry would embrace Zionism and that the lack of a crystallized national consciousness among Palestinian Arabs would result in their likely assimilation into the new Hebrew nationalism.[91] Other founding fathers of Zionism believed that the Palestinian people were descended from the biblical ancient Hebrews. David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later becoming Israel's first Prime Minister and second President, respectively, tried to establish in a 1918 paper written in Yiddish that Palestinian peasants and their mode of life were living historical testimonies to Israelite practices in the biblical period.[91][93] Tamari notes that "the ideological implications of this claim became very problematic and were soon withdrawn from circulation."[91]
YOUR PROPAGANDA IS UNFOUNDED AS USUAL IN THE FACE OF MANY TRUE SCHOLARS
PALESTINIANS ARE ISREALITES ARE CONVERTED JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, TO THIS DAY JEWS THAT CONVERT TO ISLAM MOVE TO THE PLEASTINIAN CITIES OF THE WEST BANK
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 27, 2010, 05:50:14 AM
QuoteThey "clearly conform" because they all share the same inspiration. Archaelogical evidence abounds in Jerusalem for the events depicted in the Bible as well as the surrounding areas for some of the other events.
These are words of a conjecturer, no clear evidence and the ispiration is very much political, self serving and in the Words of the prophets corrupted and twisted, hence the need for more Prophets to be sent by God progressively. Biblical scholars are the only ones that concur most of the archeologist say that you cannot be 100% sure. Pots and buildings dont tell stories they indicate that the population existed, in what condition is open to speculation. If no evidence exists with you, then you are convincing yourself of an absurdity, you willing to believe a book by unknown scribes and pharisees whole heartedly based on the feeling in your heart but not logic and clear evidence of a presented by a man called Al Ameen in his life time? The Ka'aba is your evidence, the Zam Zam (thank you for the analysis, I presented it to a food technologist and he was amazed at the properties, near perfect water that will not form algae). The Quran is your evidence, but you are not a believer in ONE GOD OF THE PROPHETS YOU BELIVE THAT THE GOD IS THREE SEPARATE ENTITIES BUT YOU TRYING CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT YOU WORSHIP ONE GOD THAT CAN BE A SON AND A SPIRIT WHEN HE CHOOSES (SATAN IS THE SHAPE SHIFTER)
QuoteMuhammad was the instigator in
I KNOW YOU ALWAYS CHOOSE THE SIDE OF PAGANS, NOW YOU SAYING YOU FAVOR THE QURAISH AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SHOULD NOT HAVE INTRODUCE THE RELIGION OF ONE GOD WORSHIP INTO ARABIA? JUST LIKE YOU FAVOR THE WORDS OF PAGAN GREEK AND ROMAN WRITERS OVER THE JEWISH AND ARAB WRITERS? I KNOW THAT YOU THINK EUROPEANS TO BE SUPERIOR TO GOD'S PEOPLE AND IF IT IS NOT FROM A EUROPEAN IT CANT BE TRUE!! PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND CHOOSE THE WORDS OF THE PEOPLE TO WHOM SCRIPTURES WERE REVEALED.
QuoteThat is not true empathy. If you cannot empathize with people that you don't agree with then you are only choosing to see things from the perspective of people who think like you.
The reason I am here is due to my empathy for human beings in the context of the truth, everyone deserves to be given the choice of the truth. Muslims act like Jesus, we preach the Truth, but when we are opposed we will not stand idly by to be crucified. Any one hung on a tree is cursed your book says. We will defend ourselves against the enemy of truth, as best we can. This does not include, rape, murder, revenge, burning of crops, stealing the possessions, we are entitled to the property of those slain. This is the reality, not a Buddhist philosophy of non violence passive resistance that leaves everyone to their own devices with politically motivated dogmas controlling the populace. Look at the world and see how this philosophy of "everyone may do as they please" have taken even Islamic countries to the brink of self destruction.
Islam is clear, worship none but ALLAH in the manner shown to us by the Prophets of ALLAH from Adam to Muhammad.
By the way prophets were sent to every nation, the Bani Israeel were favored with many being sent with scripture to them.
QuoteGal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
The global village of Satan of Queers and prostitutes and lesbians and molesters in the church and fornicators in colleges, and sex on every channel on TV and Movies and even the Christian Movies have the breast of woman displayed provocatively, and no-one is wrong in the lifestyle the portray, it is all acceptable as long as the (holy spirit/demon/ghost/deity) enters into you. It will guide you. wonderful alice in wonderland concept you have there. Wake up to reality, check the rape stats, murder, incest, criminals in the Jails, corruption in business and the general state of the city you living in. The verse are absurd as it it reads like line from Confucius Philosophy (contradictory truths), We are all in Christ, I think the Jews will disagree, as will the greeks and the other Nations, and please don't try to tell me I don't understand the lines, your conjecture is going to say that the entire human race is one body in the CHRIST. SO CHRIST IS IN ALL ACCORDING TO THESE LINES? THE HOLY GHOST IS IN ALL, GOD IS IN ALL OF US?
Quoteesus warned that many would kill in the name of God but would not be his followers.
Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Jhn 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
IS THIS NOT REFERRING TO A WARNING OF PAUL OR SAUL OF TARSUS WHO KILLED THEN STARTED TO DO GOD'S SERVICE?BECAUSE HE DID NOT KNOW JESUS DID HE, AND HE WAS NOT LIKED BY THE DISCIPLES EITHER.
MUSIMS DEFINITELY DO NOT DRIVE THE JEWS OUT THEIR SYNAGOGUES ON THE CONTRARY MOST JEWS THRIVE IN MUSLIMS COUNTRIES. LOOK HOW STRONG THEY ARE IN PALESTINE.
QuoteMany Jews migrated to the US and other countries at that time. But it was only right that they should return to their HOMELAND
THE LIES AND THE PROPAGANDA, THE LIES AND THE PROPAGANDA, THESE ARE NOT SETTLERS IN PALESTINE, THESE ARE INHABITANTS THAT ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE BANI ISRAEEL, YOU ACT AS IF NO CHRISTIANS OR JEWS BECAME MUSLIM AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY. 5 BCE THE LAND IS KNOWN AS PALSETINE WITH BAITUL MUKADIS IN THE CENTRE WHERE JERUSALEM IS NOW.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Medieval_Arab_Palestine.jpg
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The term “Arab,†as well as the presence of Arabs in the Syrian desert and the Fertile Crescent, is first seen in the Assyrian sources from the 9th century BCE (Eph'al 1984).[115]"The Fellahin in Eretz-Israel are the descendants of remnants of the Hebrew agricultural community,"[92] believing them to be descendants of the ancient Hebrew and Canaanite residents 'together with a small admixture of Arab blood'".[91] He further believed that the Palestinian peasantry would embrace Zionism and that the lack of a crystallized national consciousness among Palestinian Arabs would result in their likely assimilation into the new Hebrew nationalism.[91] Other founding fathers of Zionism believed that the Palestinian people were descended from the biblical ancient Hebrews. David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later becoming Israel's first Prime Minister and second President, respectively, tried to establish in a 1918 paper written in Yiddish that Palestinian peasants and their mode of life were living historical testimonies to Israelite practices in the biblical period.[91][93] Tamari notes that "the ideological implications of this claim became very problematic and were soon withdrawn from circulation."[91]
YOUR PROPAGANDA IS UNFOUNDED AS USUAL IN THE FACE OF MANY TRUE SCHOLARS
PALESTINIANS ARE ISREALITES ARE CONVERTED JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, TO THIS DAY JEWS THAT CONVERT TO ISLAM MOVE TO THE PLEASTINIAN CITIES OF THE WEST BANK
Mujaheed I could, as I have done now time and again, expose all the holes in your arguments, but I know it would do no good. So I am going to try something different. IF you have a point make it. ONE point. And we can cover it ONE at the time. I have no desire nor any inclination to continue playing your games or wasting my time. You call others conjecturers but you have been the only one who has NOT provided any supporting evidence of your claims. If you cannot make a point and stick to your topic I will relegate all further posts you make to storage.
Good day.
My point is that the point of view you hold (GREEK ROMAN INTERPRETATION) of the book (biblios in Greek) is that it is the word of God, it is clearly not. The interpretation of the stories and the verses clearly points to an incorrect assumption about GOD and the manner that GOD has revealed the scripture and the kind of relationship God wants us to have. It is not the instructions of the Prophets, it does not befit the majesty of GOD to become a human being (everything is Possible for GOD except absurdity) It is Absurd to say we are born with sin, yes we commit sin and God has given us repentance and sincerety to be forgiven, it is absurd to say that a Human being is GOD, is sinless and therefore takes on the sin of the world (you mean a select few). The entire argument you make is based on false assumptions and rather presumptuous of your Creator ascribing ungodly things to GOD. I dont reject anything except pagan doctrines borne out of political agendas.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AM
My point is that the point of view you hold (GREEK ROMAN INTERPRETATION) .......
Even your premise is false. The lingua franca of the 1st century Holy Land was Greek. The New Testament was WRITTEN in Koine Greek not interpreted into Greek.
The language the Old Testament was written in was Hebrew, with a little high Syriac (like portions of Daniel) sprinkled in.
Of course NONE of it was written in 7th century Quraish Arabic. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1693.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AM....... of the book (biblios in Greek) is that it is the word of God, it is clearly not.
It's all we've got. Not some repackaged Arabian paganism of the 7th century substitute.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AMThe interpretation of the stories .........
Those are accounts of what happened.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AM......... and the verses clearly points to an incorrect assumption about GOD and the manner that GOD has revealed the scripture and the kind of relationship God wants us to have.
One that you sadly, will not have as long as you entertain the spirit of antichrist in your life.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AMIt is not the instructions of the Prophets, .........
It is their accounts.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AM......... it does not befit the majesty of GOD to become a human being (everything is Possible for GOD except absurdity) ...........
You, like your false prophet Mohammed, choose to conform your created "Allah" to the level of intellect that a 7th century illiterate southwest Arabian desert dweller would have possessed. You also have to force yourself to become ignorant to history, scripture, archaeology and geography to follow Mohammed.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AM.............. It is Absurd to say we are born with sin, ...........
It isn't about what men "say" but about what scripture says.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1510.0
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AM.......... yes we commit sin and God has given us repentance and sincerety to be forgiven, it is absurd to say that a Human being is GOD, is sinless and therefore takes on the sin of the world (you mean a select few).
Not at all.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation
through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AMThe entire argument you make is based on false assumptions .........
Not assumptions but rather the way God revealed Himself through His 1600 year record.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AM....... and rather presumptuous of your Creator .........
The subject of the Gospel is about the Messiah and His crucifixion, death and resurrection, and salvation for all through faith in His shed blood. That's just the way it is.
Quote from: Mujaheed on November 29, 2010, 10:47:15 AM.......... ascribing ungodly things to GOD. I dont reject anything except pagan doctrines borne out of political agendas.
We simply report the subject of the Gospel.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0
You reject it to follow Mohammed and his repackaged 7th century pagan rituals.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1904.msg8797#msg8797
The Quran is your evidence, but you are not a believer in ONE GOD OF THE PROPHETS YOU BELIVE THAT THE GOD IS THREE SEPARATE ENTITIES BUT YOU TRYING CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT YOU WORSHIP ONE GOD THAT CAN BE A SON AND A SPIRIT WHEN HE CHOOSES (SATAN IS THE SHAPE SHIFTER)
Mujaheed, not one of us here who are Christians believe that God is three separate entities. He is one God, who has manifested himself to his creation in three different ways in three different periods, yet all three manifestations have been present throughout eternity. Each manifestation has a different function. I understand this concept is difficult for you to comprehend. God's ways are infinite and our minds are finite. It is hard to find the words to do it justice.
Quote from: Mike S on December 12, 2010, 02:01:47 PM
The Quran is your evidence, but you are not a believer in ONE GOD OF THE PROPHETS YOU BELIVE THAT THE GOD IS THREE SEPARATE ENTITIES BUT YOU TRYING CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT YOU WORSHIP ONE GOD THAT CAN BE A SON AND A SPIRIT WHEN HE CHOOSES (SATAN IS THE SHAPE SHIFTER)
Mujaheed, not one of us here who are Christians believe that God is three separate entities. He is one God, who has manifested himself to his creation in three different ways in three different periods, yet all three manifestations have been present throughout eternity. Each manifestation has a different function. I understand this concept is difficult for you to comprehend. God's ways are infinite and our minds are finite. It is hard to find the words to do it justice.
Muslims understand that Mohammed's alter-ego "Allah" is, in their words, "the one ... who confounds all human understanding", yet when they come to this forum they act as though the Godhead should be as easy to understand as their next door neighbor.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2130.0