MOHAMMED'S "LAW" (split off "Islam, Slavery & the Sword")

[Mujaheed]

You are sidestepping the question. If someone dies trying to push his way of life on another then he is not a martyr, just stupid and evil. Their is a difference in dying for what you believe in and killing and being killed for it. So answer the question once and for all or this discussion will stalemate.

"...Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? "


Also please learn to quote properly. Fixing these is growing taxing.

YOU TRYING TO FORCE ME TO SEE IT YOUR WAY AND THAT IS NOT A STALEMATE IF I DONT. A SHAHEED IS A MUSLIM, A NON MUSLIM IS NOT A MARTYR, No Muslims forced anything on anyone, Muslims have to ask to enter peacefully and when threatened with war if they try to enter the city they are entitled to defend themselves. This is the Islamic way. USUALLY THE ARROGANCE OF THE POLITICIANS LIKE THE QURAISH DID IN JAHILLIYYAH CAUSES WAR. THE WAY YOU FEEL EVERY-TIME THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS EMBRACE ISLAM IS THE SAME WAY THE POLITICIANS FEEL WHEN MUSLIMS ASK TO ENTER THE CITIES>

MY ANSWERS, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ENOUGH ABOUT FAITH AND ISLAM TO UNDERSTAND MY ANSWER, too sophisticated for a disbeliever.

The City does not have to refuse the entry to Muslims like most cities do today, that is why there is no declaration of Jihaad against the city and any act that results in death is murder.

READ THE STORIES OF THE BATTLES FOUGHT IN ISLAM PROPERLY, MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM, battles were entered into when a peaceful settlement could not be reached, Jerusalem is a classical case of a peaceful settlement by Umr (may ALLAH be pleased with him)

Let me answer the Question of "would I consider;..." and I do believe that it refers to the American way of doing business, where they threaten any country that ha a resource and they want it (OIL) they will enter the country and force their version of democracy on the country after they have wreaked havoc with the economy by sanctions and slander of the leaders. SOUND FAMILIAR? IRAN IRAQ ring any bells.

[resistingrexmundi]

YOU TRYING TO FORCE ME TO SEE IT YOUR WAY AND THAT IS NOT A STALEMATE IF I DONT. A SHAHEED IS A MUSLIM, A NON MUSLIM IS NOT A MARTYR, No Muslims forced anything on anyone, Muslims have to ask to enter peacefully and when threatened with war if they try to enter the city they are entitled to defend themselves. This is the Islamic way. USUALLY THE ARROGANCE OF THE POLITICIANS LIKE THE QURAISH DID IN JAHILLIYYAH CAUSES WAR. THE WAY YOU FEEL EVERY-TIME THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS EMBRACE ISLAM IS THE SAME WAY THE POLITICIANS FEEL WHEN MUSLIMS ASK TO ENTER THE CITIES>

I am not trying to force you to see it my way. I am trying to bring some empathy out in you. Muhammad made it clear in the Qur'an

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

That is a command to force Islam on people. It is simple as that. Along with...

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

and especially...

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

These verses came late in Muhammad's prophetic career abrogating any "peaceful" verses. These were and are open ended commands to force Islam on the world. So even Islamic history disagrees with you Mujaheed. I also find it interesting that you think only muslims can be martyrs. This line of thought prevents you from putting yourselves in the shoes of a person of another faith and seeing the injustice of having another religion forced on you.

MY ANSWERS, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ENOUGH ABOUT FAITH AND ISLAM TO UNDERSTAND MY ANSWER, too sophisticated for a disbeliever.

Oh I see. You are far too intelligent for a simpleton like me to grasp your logic. OK let's recap.
1. I ask how could Mecca be the epicenter of God's worship for the world if no archaelogical evidence exists for its' existence before 4 AD. Your answer...
2. I ask how can you trust the word of someone who cites his own word as proof. Your answer...
3. I ask how can you trust someone who admitted to confusing satan's voice with God's. Your answer...
4. I ask if you would consider a person of another faith a martyr if they were killed forcing their faith on you. Your answer: No because they aren't muslim
5. I ask you if someone killed your father and brother would you want to sleep with them. Your answer...

There are more but that should do for now. I also noticed how you brilliantly avoided those questions when posed to you so many times.

The City does not have to refuse the entry to Muslims like most cities do today, that is why there is no declaration of Jihaad against the city and any act that results in death is murder.

Why do you think out of all religions on earth that Islam has the hardest time being introduced peacefully into a new region? Of course people are hesitant to allow Islam in when they are threatened like in the case of Heraclius. Furthermore it is a matter of freedom of choice. If a nation refuses Islam it is not your right to war with them in the first place. The fact you cannot grasp that is telling of the twisted mess Islam has made of your intellect.

READ THE STORIES OF THE BATTLES FOUGHT IN ISLAM PROPERLY, MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM, battles were entered into when a peaceful settlement could not be reached, Jerusalem is a classical case of a peaceful settlement by Umr (may ALLAH be pleased with him)

By properly you mean with the same indoctrination you employ. Furthermore your statement that "MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM" is a patent lie as I demonstrated above.

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

So the choice is die or convert. At least as a Christian I could pay the jizya. But I will take option 4 and just say no thanks to dying by Islam's hand, no to the jizya, and no to conversion.

Let me answer the Question of "would I consider;..." and I do believe that it refers to the American way of doing business, where they threaten any country that ha a resource and they want it (OIL) they will enter the country and force their version of democracy on the country after they have wreaked havoc with the economy by sanctions and slander of the leaders. SOUND FAMILIAR? IRAN IRAQ ring any bells.

Stop obfuscating by going off on tangents. Just answer the question succinctly. Despite your erroneous views on democracy, which was invented in the West and only has representation in the Middle east because of Israel, and your patently false statement concerning American business you still managed not to answer the question. But to address your claim. The Iraq war had nothing to do with oil. We have plenty of oil here and other suppliers to boot, Iraq was in possession of WMD left over from the Gulf war era and Sadam had no qualms using them on people he didn't like. When asked to allow UN inspectors in to investigate his sites he barred their way. He did this for years. He had a record of human rights abuses as well as hostility to other nations that had not provoked him(Kuwait). He snubbed his nose at the UN and broke sanctions repeatedly. The world simply is a better place without him in it. Personally I feel America should have engaged Iran and Saudi Arabia instead since Iran is an immediate threat to world peace and Saudi Arabia was responsible for training, indoctrinating, financing, and sending 15 of the 19 9/11 hijakers. But all of that is beside the point. We are discussing a simple question.

"...Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? "

If you cannot or will not answer do not fill this thread with unrelated topics. If you want to discuss the Iraq war go to the hundreds of left leaning websites, forums, blogs etc that love to bash those with the courage to stand up to Islamic aggression instead of wasting space here. Also learn to quote properly. Your lack of care in this regard is indicative of your lack of care in general. Whether in regards to manners, others viewpoints, or the time others take crafting their responses. When you return either engage by answering questions succinctly and clearly without obfuscating, using foul language and other insults, and spamming or do not bother returning. Quite frankly it is long since time for me to stop casting my pearls before you.

[Mujaheed]

YOU TRYING TO FORCE ME TO SEE IT YOUR WAY AND THAT IS NOT A STALEMATE IF I DONT. A SHAHEED IS A MUSLIM, A NON MUSLIM IS NOT A MARTYR, No Muslims forced anything on anyone, Muslims have to ask to enter peacefully and when threatened with war if they try to enter the city they are entitled to defend themselves. This is the Islamic way. USUALLY THE ARROGANCE OF THE POLITICIANS LIKE THE QURAISH DID IN JAHILLIYYAH CAUSES WAR. THE WAY YOU FEEL EVERY-TIME THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS EMBRACE ISLAM IS THE SAME WAY THE POLITICIANS FEEL WHEN MUSLIMS ASK TO ENTER THE CITIES>

I am not trying to force you to see it my way. I am trying to bring some empathy out in you. Muhammad made it clear in the Qur'an

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

That is a command to force Islam on people. It is simple as that. Along with...

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

and especially...

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

These verses came late in Muhammad's prophetic career abrogating any "peaceful" verses. These were and are open ended commands to force Islam on the world. So even Islamic history disagrees with you Mujaheed. I also find it interesting that you think only muslims can be martyrs. This line of thought prevents you from putting yourselves in the shoes of a person of another faith and seeing the injustice of having another religion forced on you.

MY ANSWERS, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ENOUGH ABOUT FAITH AND ISLAM TO UNDERSTAND MY ANSWER, too sophisticated for a disbeliever.

Let me be courteous and answer the questions pose, firstly you trying to convince me with a book that is clearly not from the account handed down by the Prophets but the version of doctrines of writers and scribes and translators. It is not verified and because they all agree more or less means that the Text have been clearly edited to conform with the source. very few could write and those who wanted to learn would copy text from older text hence the vast amount of parchments (not books) all not conforming were burnt on several occasions, which translates to only those that agree have been preserved.

Empathy I reserve for believers not slanderers and those who openly call conjecture the truth.

The Quranic verses are quoted out of context and without the hadith that accompanies them, you cannot quote verses in Isolation, It is like calling Jesus a coward and a pacifist for turning the other cheek. Believers fight for the truth and are killed and killed and this is in no way unique to muslims, in fact when comes to killing and being killed I believe that USA is the current leader in warfare. The Muslims must fight disbelievers, as they are the ones that wreak havoc on earth, they and the Christians brought untold suffering on more than half the population on earth, we forget African slavery, American Red Indian Massacres, I believe that the Cowboys built churches everywhere they went and called the killing of the Red Indiand self defense, how is that different to Muhammad, the Dutch raided Indonesia, and the Southern Tip of Africa, Hitler a Christian hated the Jews and Christians watched and only reacted when England was threatened, then all Christian countries refused to give the Jewish refugees a place except the palestinians and they paying the price for the allowing treacherous Jews to once again enter Palestine. Vietnam, San Salvador, Afghanistan Iraq and the List goes on and on. You may want sweep in front of your own door.

The propaganda machine is making Muslims out to be terrorist while the vast majority lives in Peace with much less crime than in any Non muslim country, You paying much more than Jizya in your own country, oh I forgot the Government is calling it Taxes wait a minute taxes means Jizya in ARABIC.

[Mujaheed]

Oh I see. You are far too intelligent for a simpleton like me to grasp your logic. OK let's recap.
1. I ask how could Mecca be the epicenter of God's worship for the world if no archaelogical evidence exists for its' existence before 4 AD. Your answer...
2. I ask how can you trust the word of someone who cites his own word as proof. Your answer...
3. I ask how can you trust someone who admitted to confusing satan's voice with God's. Your answer...
4. I ask if you would consider a person of another faith a martyr if they were killed forcing their faith on you. Your answer: No because they aren't muslim
5. I ask you if someone killed your father and brother would you want to sleep with them. Your answer...

There are more but that should do for now. I also noticed how you brilliantly avoided those questions when posed to you so many times.

The City does not have to refuse the entry to Muslims like most cities do today, that is why there is no declaration of Jihaad against the city and any act that results in death is murder.

Why do you think out of all religions on earth that Islam has the hardest time being introduced peacefully into a new region? Of course people are hesitant to allow Islam in when they are threatened like in the case of Heraclius. Furthermore it is a matter of freedom of choice. If a nation refuses Islam it is not your right to war with them in the first place. The fact you cannot grasp that is telling of the twisted mess Islam has made of your intellect.

READ THE STORIES OF THE BATTLES FOUGHT IN ISLAM PROPERLY, MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM, battles were entered into when a peaceful settlement could not be reached, Jerusalem is a classical case of a peaceful settlement by Umr (may ALLAH be pleased with him)

By properly you mean with the same indoctrination you employ. Furthermore your statement that "MUSLIMS NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO BECOME MUSLIM" is a patent lie as I demonstrated above.

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

So the choice is die or convert. At least as a Christian I could pay the jizya. But I will take option 4 and just say no thanks to dying by Islam's hand, no to the jizya, and no to conversion.

Let me answer the Question of "would I consider;..." and I do believe that it refers to the American way of doing business, where they threaten any country that ha a resource and they want it (OIL) they will enter the country and force their version of democracy on the country after they have wreaked havoc with the economy by sanctions and slander of the leaders. SOUND FAMILIAR? IRAN IRAQ ring any bells.

Stop obfuscating by going off on tangents. Just answer the question succinctly. Despite your erroneous views on democracy, which was invented in the West and only has representation in the Middle east because of Israel, and your patently false statement concerning American business you still managed not to answer the question. But to address your claim. The Iraq war had nothing to do with oil. We have plenty of oil here and other suppliers to boot, Iraq was in possession of WMD left over from the Gulf war era and Sadam had no qualms using them on people he didn't like. When asked to allow UN inspectors in to investigate his sites he barred their way. He did this for years. He had a record of human rights abuses as well as hostility to other nations that had not provoked him(Kuwait). He snubbed his nose at the UN and broke sanctions repeatedly. The world simply is a better place without him in it. Personally I feel America should have engaged Iran and Saudi Arabia instead since Iran is an immediate threat to world peace and Saudi Arabia was responsible for training, indoctrinating, financing, and sending 15 of the 19 9/11 hijakers. But all of that is beside the point. We are discussing a simple question

.

"...Would you consider it self-sacrafice if someone were killed trying to conquer a city just because it didn't accept its' way of belief? Allow me to make it a little more clear for you. If someone attacked the town you lived in and told you the only way you or your family would be safe is if they accepted their beliefs. Then in your struggle with this person you killed him. Would you consider him a martyr? "

If you cannot or will not answer do not fill this thread with unrelated topics. If you want to discuss the Iraq war go to the hundreds of left leaning websites, forums, blogs etc that love to bash those with the courage to stand up to Islamic aggression instead of wasting space here. Also learn to quote properly. Your lack of care in this regard is indicative of your lack of care in general. Whether in regards to manners, others viewpoints, or the time others take crafting their responses. When you return either engage by answering questions succinctly and clearly without obfuscating, using foul language and other insults, and spamming or do not bother returning. Quite frankly it is long since time for me to stop casting my pearls before you.

You are brainwashed if you believe the media version of the Iraqi war, You are seriously delusional and belong to the minority of Americans and obviously a BUSH supporter, by the way Bush is in bed with the ARABS more particularly the Bin Ladens, Bush is a failed oil man trying to make his mark by trying to lay a pipeline through Afghanistan, and taking control of Iraq, it is about OIL, no WMD's have been found to this day. I never liked Saddam but I hate the killing of women children even more in any country. The media is an entertaining side show to the truth. The result is that everyone including Christian Iraqis are suffering far worse than they did under Saddam due the war that is raging. They are going to exploited like the human cattle like they do in Capitalistic states, in the name of democracy and the benefactors will be big corporations and a few families, like the pharoahs and kings and oppressors of the past.

I cannot discuss anything with you as you are not open minded you can only see the political media biased version, open your eyes and look at the situation in light of scripture and the warnings of the Prophets that came before. What happened to turn the other cheek and Saddam was no where near USA or any of the countries involved in its pillaging and looting.

To answer your question, who dies as a martyr is clearly stated and I gave you the Hadith but you persist with your opinions and conjecture. Opposition to the Truth of GOD (QURAN) and as a result you die opposing the truth your judgment is in the hands of GOD. Being killed spreading the truth you are a martyr. NOT SPREADING THE OPINION AND CONJECTURE OF KNOWN OR UNKNOWN AUTHORS.

[resistingrexmundi]

Let me be courteous and answer the questions pose, firstly you trying to convince me with a book that is clearly not from the account handed down by the Prophets but the version of doctrines of writers and scribes and translators. It is not verified and because they all agree more or less means that the Text have been clearly edited to conform with the source. very few could write and those who wanted to learn would copy text from older text hence the vast amount of parchments (not books) all not conforming were burnt on several occasions, which translates to only those that agree have been preserved.

They "clearly conform" because they all share the same inspiration. Archaelogical evidence abounds in Jerusalem for the events depicted in the Bible as well as the surrounding areas for some of the other events. But I am not here to debate each and every story from the bible. We are talking specifically of Mecca. If no evidence exists of its' existence before 4 AD then logic dictates that it could not have been central to man's worship of God since the beginning of time.

Empathy I reserve for believers not slanderers and those who openly call conjecture the truth.

That is not true empathy. If you cannot empathize with people that you don't agree with then you are only choosing to see things from the perspective of people who think like you. That isn't empathy. And I have already pointed out to you that conjecture is believing the word of a liar who called himself a prophet, who also couldn't distinguish between satan's voice and God's. That he admitted himself.

The Quranic verses are quoted out of context and without the hadith that accompanies them, you cannot quote verses in Isolation, It is like calling Jesus a coward and a pacifist for turning the other cheek. Believers fight for the truth and are killed and killed and this is in no way unique to muslims, in fact when comes to killing and being killed I believe that USA is the current leader in warfare.

Muhammad was the instigator in every single one of his conflicts with the Quraysh. He violated accepted social mores at every turn and spread Islam through bloodshed.

The Muslims must fight disbelievers, as they are the ones that wreak havoc on earth, they and the Christians brought untold suffering on more than half the population on earth, we forget African slavery,

The muslims fight anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Just like Muhammad. Christians, if they truly be Christian, must treat everyone how they wish to be treated. Period. Just because someone calls themself Christian does not make it so. And as for slavery it was John Brown who citing the "golden rule" in his defence for the Harper's Ferry massacre that brought the issue to the forefront. It was Christianity that helped lead the way in its' abolition in the west. Slavery is an ancient institution that has been abolished everywhere Christianity has flourished. Yet there are still Islamic countries today that practice it. So you can squelch that non-sense now. Besides you explain to me how the institution of slavery harmonizes with...
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
If anyone does not follow these tenets by what right does he call himself Christian?

American Red Indian Massacres, I believe that the Cowboys built churches everywhere they went and called the killing of the Red Indiand self defense, how is that different to Muhammad,

Without getting into the specifics of each of these case I would cite the above answer. And you fail to mention the Christian Missionaries that went among them caring for their sick and injured. So spare me. Out of the two groups who do you think exemplified Christ? And Jesus warned that many would kill in the name of God but would not be his followers.
Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Jhn 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

the Dutch raided Indonesia, and the Southern Tip of Africa,

These things were going on in the world before the advent of Christ. As I have said before if they did not follow Jesus' command to love and treat one another equitibly by what right do they call themselves Christian?

Hitler a Christian hated the Jews and Christians watched and only reacted when England was threatened,

I am so glad you brought up Hitler.
The fact that the Japanese have retained their political philosophy, which is one of the essential reasons for their success, is due to their having been saved in time from the views of Christianity. Just as in Islam, there is no terrorism in the Japanese State religion, but, on the contrary, a promise of happiness. This terrorism in religion is , to put it briefly, of a Jewish dogma, which Christianity has universalized and whose effect is to sow trouble and confusion in men’s minds.
4 April 1942

Under the guidance of the Reich, Europe would speedily have become unified. Once the Jewish poison had been eradicated, unification would have been an easy matter. France and Italy, each defeated in turn at an interval of a few months by the two Germanic Powers, would have been well out of it. Both would have had to renounce their inappropriate aspirations to greatness. At the same time they would have had to renounce their pretentions in North Africa and the Near East; and that would have allowed Europe to pursue a bold policy of friendship towards Islam.
4th February 1945


All Islam vibrated at the news of our victories. The Egyptians, the Irakis and the whole of the Near East were all ready to rise in revolt. Just think what we could have done to help them, even to incite them, as would have been both our duty and in our own interest!...The Sword of Islam evokes the same sneering chuckle now as it did before the war. This title, which is fitting for Mahomed and a great conqueror like Omar, Mussolini caused to be conferred on himself by a few wretched brutes whom he had either bribed or terrorized into doing so. We had a great chance of pursuing a splendid policy with regard to Islam.
17th February 1945


The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France.
2nd April 1945


I could go on from there but my point is made. Hitler had long ago abandoned whatever temporal ties he had to Christianity and favored Islam. Especially because of its' long standing history of hatred for Jews. He even went so far as to ally with the Grand Mufti Husseini from Jerusalem to create panzer units and help annihilate the Jews. Furthermore, as I have shown by what measure would he call himself Christian?

then all Christian countries refused to give the Jewish refugees a place except the palestinians and they paying the price for the allowing treacherous Jews to once again enter Palestine. Vietnam, San Salvador, Afghanistan Iraq and the List goes on and on. You may want sweep in front of your own door.

Many Jews migrated to the US and other countries at that time. But it was only right that they should return to their HOMELAND that even the Qur'an acknowledges that they are to return to. And arab countries did everything in their power to keep the Jews out of their HOMELAND.Palestine has never existed as a country. In fact their was a time when Palestinian referred to Jews in the Holy Land. The muslims their regarded the term with disdain and many of them considered themselves Syrians. So again save yourself the embarrasment and stick to the topic being discussed.

The propaganda machine is making Muslims out to be terrorist while the vast majority lives in Peace with much less crime than in any Non muslim country, You paying much more than Jizya in your own country, oh I forgot the Government is calling it Taxes wait a minute taxes means Jizya in ARABIC.

Muslim terrorists are making muslims out to be terrorists. And while many muslims do live in peace many do not. And Muhammad certainly did not. And we pay taxes for health-care, road repair, social endeavors etc. We do not pay taxes because of what we believe. And that is the difference.

[Mujaheed]

They "clearly conform" because they all share the same inspiration. Archaelogical evidence abounds in Jerusalem for the events depicted in the Bible as well as the surrounding areas for some of the other events.

These are words of a conjecturer, no clear evidence and the ispiration is very much political, self serving and in the Words of the prophets corrupted and twisted, hence the need for more Prophets to be sent by God progressively. Biblical scholars are the only ones that concur most of the archeologist say that you cannot be 100% sure. Pots and buildings dont tell stories they indicate that the population existed, in what condition is open to speculation. If no evidence exists with you, then you are convincing yourself of an absurdity, you willing to believe a book by unknown scribes and pharisees whole heartedly based on the feeling in your heart but not logic and clear evidence of a presented by a man called Al Ameen in his life time? The Ka'aba is your evidence, the Zam Zam (thank you for the analysis, I presented it to a food technologist and he was amazed at the properties, near perfect water that will not form algae). The Quran is your evidence, but you are not a believer in ONE GOD OF THE PROPHETS YOU BELIVE THAT THE GOD IS THREE SEPARATE ENTITIES BUT YOU TRYING CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT YOU WORSHIP ONE GOD THAT CAN BE A SON AND A SPIRIT WHEN HE CHOOSES (SATAN IS THE SHAPE SHIFTER)

Muhammad was the instigator in

I KNOW YOU ALWAYS CHOOSE THE SIDE OF PAGANS, NOW YOU SAYING YOU FAVOR THE QURAISH AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SHOULD NOT HAVE INTRODUCE THE RELIGION OF ONE GOD WORSHIP INTO ARABIA? JUST LIKE YOU FAVOR THE WORDS OF PAGAN GREEK AND ROMAN WRITERS OVER THE JEWISH AND ARAB WRITERS? I KNOW THAT YOU THINK EUROPEANS TO BE SUPERIOR TO GOD'S PEOPLE AND IF IT IS NOT FROM A EUROPEAN IT CANT BE TRUE!! PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND CHOOSE THE WORDS OF THE PEOPLE TO WHOM SCRIPTURES WERE REVEALED.

That is not true empathy. If you cannot empathize with people that you don't agree with then you are only choosing to see things from the perspective of people who think like you.

The reason I am here is due to my empathy for human beings in the context of the truth, everyone deserves to be given the choice of the truth. Muslims act like Jesus, we preach the Truth, but when we are opposed we will not stand idly by to be crucified. Any one hung on a tree is cursed your book says. We will defend ourselves against the enemy of truth, as best we can. This does not include, rape, murder, revenge, burning of crops, stealing the possessions, we are entitled to the property of those slain. This is the reality, not a Buddhist philosophy of non violence passive resistance that leaves everyone to their own devices with politically motivated dogmas controlling the populace. Look at the world and see how this philosophy of "everyone may do as they please" have taken even Islamic countries to the brink of self destruction.

Islam is clear, worship none but ALLAH in the manner shown to us by the Prophets of ALLAH from Adam to Muhammad.
By the way prophets were sent to every nation, the Bani Israeel were favored with many being sent with scripture to them.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

The global village of Satan of Queers and prostitutes and lesbians and molesters in the church and fornicators in colleges, and sex on every channel on TV and Movies and even the Christian Movies have the breast of woman displayed provocatively, and no-one is wrong in the lifestyle the portray, it is all acceptable as long as the (holy spirit/demon/ghost/deity) enters into you. It will guide you. wonderful alice in wonderland concept you have there. Wake up to reality, check the rape stats, murder, incest, criminals in the Jails, corruption in business and the general state of the city you living in. The verse are absurd as it it reads like line from Confucius Philosophy (contradictory truths), We are all in Christ, I think the Jews will disagree, as will the greeks and the other Nations, and please don't try to tell me I don't understand the lines, your conjecture is going to say that the entire human race is one body in the CHRIST. SO CHRIST IS IN ALL ACCORDING TO THESE LINES? THE HOLY GHOST IS IN ALL, GOD IS IN ALL OF US? 

esus warned that many would kill in the name of God but would not be his followers.
Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Jhn 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

IS THIS NOT REFERRING TO A WARNING OF PAUL OR SAUL OF TARSUS WHO KILLED THEN STARTED TO DO GOD'S SERVICE?BECAUSE HE DID NOT KNOW JESUS DID HE, AND HE WAS NOT LIKED BY THE DISCIPLES EITHER.

MUSIMS DEFINITELY DO NOT DRIVE THE JEWS OUT THEIR SYNAGOGUES ON THE CONTRARY MOST JEWS THRIVE IN MUSLIMS COUNTRIES. LOOK HOW STRONG THEY ARE IN PALESTINE.

Many Jews migrated to the US and other countries at that time. But it was only right that they should return to their HOMELAND

THE LIES AND THE PROPAGANDA, THE LIES AND THE PROPAGANDA, THESE ARE NOT SETTLERS IN PALESTINE, THESE ARE INHABITANTS THAT ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE BANI ISRAEEL, YOU ACT AS IF NO CHRISTIANS OR JEWS BECAME MUSLIM AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY. 5 BCE THE LAND IS KNOWN AS PALSETINE WITH BAITUL MUKADIS IN THE CENTRE WHERE JERUSALEM IS NOW.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Medieval_Arab_Palestine.jpg

The term “Arab,” as well as the presence of Arabs in the Syrian desert and the Fertile Crescent, is first seen in the Assyrian sources from the 9th century BCE (Eph'al 1984).[115]"The Fellahin in Eretz-Israel are the descendants of remnants of the Hebrew agricultural community,"[92] believing them to be descendants of the ancient Hebrew and Canaanite residents 'together with a small admixture of Arab blood'".[91] He further believed that the Palestinian peasantry would embrace Zionism and that the lack of a crystallized national consciousness among Palestinian Arabs would result in their likely assimilation into the new Hebrew nationalism.[91] Other founding fathers of Zionism believed that the Palestinian people were descended from the biblical ancient Hebrews. David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later becoming Israel's first Prime Minister and second President, respectively, tried to establish in a 1918 paper written in Yiddish that Palestinian peasants and their mode of life were living historical testimonies to Israelite practices in the biblical period.[91][93] Tamari notes that "the ideological implications of this claim became very problematic and were soon withdrawn from circulation."[91]


YOUR PROPAGANDA IS UNFOUNDED AS USUAL IN THE FACE OF MANY TRUE SCHOLARS
PALESTINIANS ARE ISREALITES ARE CONVERTED JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, TO THIS DAY JEWS THAT CONVERT TO ISLAM MOVE TO THE PLEASTINIAN CITIES OF THE WEST BANK

[resistingrexmundi]

They "clearly conform" because they all share the same inspiration. Archaelogical evidence abounds in Jerusalem for the events depicted in the Bible as well as the surrounding areas for some of the other events.

These are words of a conjecturer, no clear evidence and the ispiration is very much political, self serving and in the Words of the prophets corrupted and twisted, hence the need for more Prophets to be sent by God progressively. Biblical scholars are the only ones that concur most of the archeologist say that you cannot be 100% sure. Pots and buildings dont tell stories they indicate that the population existed, in what condition is open to speculation. If no evidence exists with you, then you are convincing yourself of an absurdity, you willing to believe a book by unknown scribes and pharisees whole heartedly based on the feeling in your heart but not logic and clear evidence of a presented by a man called Al Ameen in his life time? The Ka'aba is your evidence, the Zam Zam (thank you for the analysis, I presented it to a food technologist and he was amazed at the properties, near perfect water that will not form algae). The Quran is your evidence, but you are not a believer in ONE GOD OF THE PROPHETS YOU BELIVE THAT THE GOD IS THREE SEPARATE ENTITIES BUT YOU TRYING CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT YOU WORSHIP ONE GOD THAT CAN BE A SON AND A SPIRIT WHEN HE CHOOSES (SATAN IS THE SHAPE SHIFTER)

Muhammad was the instigator in

I KNOW YOU ALWAYS CHOOSE THE SIDE OF PAGANS, NOW YOU SAYING YOU FAVOR THE QURAISH AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD SHOULD NOT HAVE INTRODUCE THE RELIGION OF ONE GOD WORSHIP INTO ARABIA? JUST LIKE YOU FAVOR THE WORDS OF PAGAN GREEK AND ROMAN WRITERS OVER THE JEWISH AND ARAB WRITERS? I KNOW THAT YOU THINK EUROPEANS TO BE SUPERIOR TO GOD'S PEOPLE AND IF IT IS NOT FROM A EUROPEAN IT CANT BE TRUE!! PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND CHOOSE THE WORDS OF THE PEOPLE TO WHOM SCRIPTURES WERE REVEALED.

That is not true empathy. If you cannot empathize with people that you don't agree with then you are only choosing to see things from the perspective of people who think like you.

The reason I am here is due to my empathy for human beings in the context of the truth, everyone deserves to be given the choice of the truth. Muslims act like Jesus, we preach the Truth, but when we are opposed we will not stand idly by to be crucified. Any one hung on a tree is cursed your book says. We will defend ourselves against the enemy of truth, as best we can. This does not include, rape, murder, revenge, burning of crops, stealing the possessions, we are entitled to the property of those slain. This is the reality, not a Buddhist philosophy of non violence passive resistance that leaves everyone to their own devices with politically motivated dogmas controlling the populace. Look at the world and see how this philosophy of "everyone may do as they please" have taken even Islamic countries to the brink of self destruction.

Islam is clear, worship none but ALLAH in the manner shown to us by the Prophets of ALLAH from Adam to Muhammad.
By the way prophets were sent to every nation, the Bani Israeel were favored with many being sent with scripture to them.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

The global village of Satan of Queers and prostitutes and lesbians and molesters in the church and fornicators in colleges, and sex on every channel on TV and Movies and even the Christian Movies have the breast of woman displayed provocatively, and no-one is wrong in the lifestyle the portray, it is all acceptable as long as the (holy spirit/demon/ghost/deity) enters into you. It will guide you. wonderful alice in wonderland concept you have there. Wake up to reality, check the rape stats, murder, incest, criminals in the Jails, corruption in business and the general state of the city you living in. The verse are absurd as it it reads like line from Confucius Philosophy (contradictory truths), We are all in Christ, I think the Jews will disagree, as will the greeks and the other Nations, and please don't try to tell me I don't understand the lines, your conjecture is going to say that the entire human race is one body in the CHRIST. SO CHRIST IS IN ALL ACCORDING TO THESE LINES? THE HOLY GHOST IS IN ALL, GOD IS IN ALL OF US? 

esus warned that many would kill in the name of God but would not be his followers.
Jhn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Jhn 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

IS THIS NOT REFERRING TO A WARNING OF PAUL OR SAUL OF TARSUS WHO KILLED THEN STARTED TO DO GOD'S SERVICE?BECAUSE HE DID NOT KNOW JESUS DID HE, AND HE WAS NOT LIKED BY THE DISCIPLES EITHER.

MUSIMS DEFINITELY DO NOT DRIVE THE JEWS OUT THEIR SYNAGOGUES ON THE CONTRARY MOST JEWS THRIVE IN MUSLIMS COUNTRIES. LOOK HOW STRONG THEY ARE IN PALESTINE.

Many Jews migrated to the US and other countries at that time. But it was only right that they should return to their HOMELAND

THE LIES AND THE PROPAGANDA, THE LIES AND THE PROPAGANDA, THESE ARE NOT SETTLERS IN PALESTINE, THESE ARE INHABITANTS THAT ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE BANI ISRAEEL, YOU ACT AS IF NO CHRISTIANS OR JEWS BECAME MUSLIM AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY. 5 BCE THE LAND IS KNOWN AS PALSETINE WITH BAITUL MUKADIS IN THE CENTRE WHERE JERUSALEM IS NOW.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Medieval_Arab_Palestine.jpg

The term “Arab,” as well as the presence of Arabs in the Syrian desert and the Fertile Crescent, is first seen in the Assyrian sources from the 9th century BCE (Eph'al 1984).[115]"The Fellahin in Eretz-Israel are the descendants of remnants of the Hebrew agricultural community,"[92] believing them to be descendants of the ancient Hebrew and Canaanite residents 'together with a small admixture of Arab blood'".[91] He further believed that the Palestinian peasantry would embrace Zionism and that the lack of a crystallized national consciousness among Palestinian Arabs would result in their likely assimilation into the new Hebrew nationalism.[91] Other founding fathers of Zionism believed that the Palestinian people were descended from the biblical ancient Hebrews. David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Ben Zvi, later becoming Israel's first Prime Minister and second President, respectively, tried to establish in a 1918 paper written in Yiddish that Palestinian peasants and their mode of life were living historical testimonies to Israelite practices in the biblical period.[91][93] Tamari notes that "the ideological implications of this claim became very problematic and were soon withdrawn from circulation."[91]


YOUR PROPAGANDA IS UNFOUNDED AS USUAL IN THE FACE OF MANY TRUE SCHOLARS
PALESTINIANS ARE ISREALITES ARE CONVERTED JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, TO THIS DAY JEWS THAT CONVERT TO ISLAM MOVE TO THE PLEASTINIAN CITIES OF THE WEST BANK

Mujaheed I could, as I have done now time and again, expose all the holes in your arguments, but I know it would do no good. So I am going to try something different. IF you have a point make it. ONE point. And we can cover it ONE at the time. I have no desire nor any inclination to continue playing your games or wasting my time. You call others conjecturers but you have been the only one who has NOT provided any supporting evidence of your claims. If you cannot make a point and stick to your topic I will relegate all further posts you make to storage.

Good day.

[Mujaheed]

My point is that the point of view you hold (GREEK ROMAN INTERPRETATION) of the book (biblios in Greek) is that it is the word of God, it is clearly not. The interpretation of the stories and the verses clearly points to an incorrect assumption about GOD and the manner that GOD has revealed the scripture and the kind of relationship God wants us to have. It is not the instructions of the Prophets, it does not befit the majesty of GOD to become a human being (everything is Possible for GOD except absurdity) It is Absurd to say we are born with sin, yes we commit sin and God has given us repentance and sincerety to be forgiven, it is absurd to say that a Human being is GOD, is sinless and therefore takes on the sin of the world (you mean a select few). The entire argument you make is based on false assumptions and rather presumptuous of your Creator ascribing ungodly things to GOD. I dont reject anything except pagan doctrines borne out of political agendas.

[Peter]

My point is that the point of view you hold (GREEK ROMAN INTERPRETATION) .......

Even your premise is false. The lingua franca of the 1st century Holy Land was Greek. The New Testament was WRITTEN in Koine Greek not interpreted into Greek.
The language the Old Testament was written in was Hebrew, with a little high Syriac (like portions of Daniel) sprinkled in.
Of course NONE of it was written in 7th century Quraish Arabic. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1693.0

....... of the book (biblios in Greek) is that it is the word of God, it is clearly not.

It's all we've got. Not some repackaged Arabian paganism of the 7th century substitute.

The interpretation of the stories .........

Those are accounts of what happened.

......... and the verses clearly points to an incorrect assumption about GOD and the manner that GOD has revealed the scripture and the kind of relationship God wants us to have.

One that you sadly, will not have as long as you entertain the spirit of antichrist in your life.

It is not the instructions of the Prophets, .........

It is their accounts.

......... it does not befit the majesty of GOD to become a human being (everything is Possible for GOD except absurdity) ...........

You, like your false prophet Mohammed, choose to conform your created "Allah" to the level of intellect that a 7th century illiterate southwest Arabian desert dweller would have possessed. You also have to force yourself to become ignorant to history, scripture, archaeology and geography to follow Mohammed.

.............. It is Absurd to say we are born with sin, ...........

It isn't about what men "say" but about what scripture says.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1510.0

.......... yes we commit sin and God has given us repentance and sincerety to be forgiven, it is absurd to say that a Human being is GOD, is sinless and therefore takes on the sin of the world (you mean a select few).

Not at all.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The entire argument you make is based on false assumptions .........

Not assumptions but rather the way God revealed Himself through His 1600 year record.

....... and rather presumptuous of your Creator .........

The subject of the Gospel is about the Messiah and His crucifixion, death and resurrection, and salvation for all through faith in His shed blood. That's just the way it is.

.......... ascribing ungodly things to GOD. I dont reject anything except pagan doctrines borne out of political agendas.

We simply report the subject of the Gospel.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0
You reject it to follow Mohammed and his repackaged 7th century pagan rituals.

[Peter]

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1904.msg8797#msg8797

[Mike S]

The Quran is your evidence, but you are not a believer in ONE GOD OF THE PROPHETS YOU BELIVE THAT THE GOD IS THREE SEPARATE ENTITIES BUT YOU TRYING CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT YOU WORSHIP ONE GOD THAT CAN BE A SON AND A SPIRIT WHEN HE CHOOSES (SATAN IS THE SHAPE SHIFTER)

Mujaheed, not one of us here who are Christians believe that God is three separate entities. He is one God, who has manifested himself to his creation in three different ways in three different periods, yet all three manifestations have been present throughout eternity. Each manifestation has a different function. I understand this concept is difficult for you to comprehend. God's ways are infinite and our minds are finite. It is hard to find the words to do it justice.

[Peter]

The Quran is your evidence, but you are not a believer in ONE GOD OF THE PROPHETS YOU BELIVE THAT THE GOD IS THREE SEPARATE ENTITIES BUT YOU TRYING CONVINCE EVERYONE THAT YOU WORSHIP ONE GOD THAT CAN BE A SON AND A SPIRIT WHEN HE CHOOSES (SATAN IS THE SHAPE SHIFTER)

Mujaheed, not one of us here who are Christians believe that God is three separate entities. He is one God, who has manifested himself to his creation in three different ways in three different periods, yet all three manifestations have been present throughout eternity. Each manifestation has a different function. I understand this concept is difficult for you to comprehend. God's ways are infinite and our minds are finite. It is hard to find the words to do it justice.

Muslims understand that Mohammed's alter-ego "Allah" is, in their words, "the one ... who confounds all human understanding", yet when they come to this forum they act as though the Godhead should be as easy to understand as their next door neighbor.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2130.0