The following were excerpted from PMs of a friend on YouTube.
As for me I remember a childhood pride in the Crusades (such manner of pride was still taught in England circa 1990) and viewed them as one of those rare outbursts of Romantic heroism. Were I better trained I would make a formal case for them as exemplers of proto-democracy versus tyranny.
In High School in America just two years later we were taught shame in the crusades. In U.S. University much later we were taught acute shame in the crusades.
I never baught it. Not seriously anyway.
Then suddenly I wound up in an apartment in London in 2000-2006. There were lots of Muslims in that area, perhaps 30-60% of everyone I'd see on the streets was Islamic.
The area just five years previously had very few Muslims about.
Everyday I would have to tolerate glances of hatred, head-turns of a strange angry rendition of modesty (I saw a few kind head-turns of modesty too so I know the difference). Everyday on the streets for six years I endured angry body language from Muslims...and in other areas of London besides that one.
Once I stepped into an Islamic Bookstore which obviously had many books in English. In there the manager and customers all stared at me in the way Nazi Germans would have stared at a Jew wearing a marker badge...I did not spend long in that store.
I knew nothing about Islam and in the very beginning in the year 2000 before Sep. 11 2001, and before the subsequent five years of conspicuous social tension, I had already turned against those people.
With no education I came to know what those people were really like.(We must recognize exceptions but a worrying number will infact behave as I have desribed.)
I'm still searching for the one in between.
I said:
On that subject I would like to post the two sections (without disclosing your ID) in which you wrote about your perceptions of Muslims in your neighborhood in our general discussion section (unless you would like to log on and post it!). I think it would provide valuable insight for those of us that don't live around English Muslims. If you did it you could keep extending the thread with "what happened to me recently" stuff if additional things come up or occur to you..
He replied:
Dear Brother Pete,
Feel free to use as many direct quotes/paraphrase from my posts as you like. If I understand that is what you were asking (excuse me, I'm a bit rushed now..)
I will take a few minutes to add one more thing: one more incident. You don't have to include it anywhere, its just FYI (For Your Information). If want to use it fine, but you don't have to. Its just an incident I want to relate.
I once stepped on a London bus which was, as typically, filled with a few uptight looking Muslim men and women. I was sitting nowhere near them and there was an empty seat next me. The bus stopped and a Muslim man in a black turban stepped in and sat next to me. He looked extremely stiff and militant like an army General.
He started pushing my leg to the side. I was not in his space AT ALL, I was quite aware of my body at the time.
He kept pushing and pushing all the while looking forward (not at me) as tho to pretend he was acting normal.
This felt like a dangerous situation so I placed my right leg close to my left leg and he stopped.
(...Did he read this as 'submission'? Very creepy.)
That is the last thing I have to add. Once again its primarily Four Your Information, but if you want to add it fine.
:-)
Peace & Blessings,
Here's another
http://amilimani.com/2011/11/the-fraud-of-islam/#comment-23371
Craig (UK) says:
January 18, 2012 at 2:50 pm
GM said…’It’s sad to contemplate that for our NATO allies it may already be too late: i.e., Great Britain, France, Germany. No more compromises, no surrender.’
I agree in part GM. We in the UK have all but lost the majority of our major cities to Islam, because of political correctness, and the prior Labour Party governments failed social engineering experiment. The Consevatives are now in power and promised to curb immigration, but last year saw the highest inward immigration from non-EU countries ever. These imigrants are largely muslims and come from the Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, and Bangladesh. It only takes one asylum seeker from any of these countries to aquire naturalisation or/and a UK passport and they then go on to bring whole families (20+ people) over and more through what we now know as “fetching marriagesâ€: Google it for more info.
Nevertheless, people are beginning to wake up to the lies of enrichment and high immigration. Many people, and not just the indigenous Brits, are starting to get scared of the PCocracy tha has taken over common sense and logic in our homeland. the UK has a recent history of happily accepting cultural change, me included, but when it comes to the realistic prospect of becoming an Islamic nation in the next twenty or so years, then it worries people. Immigration is one thing but colonisation is totally another and we’re waking up to the possibility of this in our lifetime. I assure you and others that we will not take this lying down. Feelings are starting to be made known and emotions and tensions are rising as the threat becomes real.
The UK will never become an Islamic state or enclave.
By the way, Amils article is as ever very true and thought provoking. I hope the Iranian people are able to eventually overcome and subdue their Islamic oppressors soon.
Brother Pete,
PLEASE seek permission to upload a mirror (I believe that's the term) of this video on your channel:
YOUTUBE:
Why muslims hate dogs.
Uploaded by RebeccaFS1982 on Oct 3, 2008
watch?v=Bu-c3kIE_u8
Thank you. Let me know what you're going to do.
This is the single mirror video I will request you make IF you feel comfortable and get permission for RebeccaFS1982.
Thank you again, I don't want to trouble you.
ATTN: If the shorthand of the link above does NOT work please let me know immiediately.
Peace,
apollodorus
My respectful apologies to the readers. Here is the direct link.
You can erase this post and just post it below the shorthand version link (on Google Chrome they can use both...I'm still new to it!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu-c3kIE_u8
Quote from: apollodorus on February 27, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
Brother Pete,
PLEASE seek permission to upload a mirror (I believe that's the term) of this video on your channel:
YOUTUBE:
Why muslims hate dogs.
Uploaded by RebeccaFS1982 on Oct 3, 2008
watch?v=Bu-c3kIE_u8
Thank you. Let me know what you're going to do.
When you mentioned the subject before I put a note in our persecution section.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2967.0
Quote from: apollodorus on February 27, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
This is the single mirror video I will request you make IF you feel comfortable and get permission for RebeccaFS1982.
Actually if you go to the dropdown menu she credits
Dangelooo http://www.youtube.com/user/Dangelooo
But if you go to his channel you will find "This account has been terminated due to repeated or severe violations of our Community Guidelines and/or claims of copyright infringement."
The Christian Arab whose voice is in the video goes by the handle "Christian Prince" and is pretty popular in PalTalk, and I am pretty sure he doesn't mind, even encourages, people to download and upload his stuff. Here's his YouTube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/allahalegg/
Radio Show
http://www.spreaker.com/show/debatetv_investigateislam
I encourage folks to download and upload my videos as well.
They will probably kicked him off of YouTube the way they did Ahmedsquran3, which was a highly informative site that Muslims hated. Still some lingering downloader/uploaders click here (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ahmedsquran3&oq=ahmedsquran3&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=19738l23689l0l24522l12l12l0l6l1l0l168l690l1.5l6l0)
I know you are welcome to download and upload all those black videos. They are actually audio files with a picture so the files are tiny and download and upload quickly.
Here's a couple of examples that I downloaded and uploaded:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG1MiLqH0jc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aza63eHks8s
Here's his website http://inthenameofallah.org/
Quote from: apollodorus on February 27, 2012, 02:49:38 PM
Thank you again, I don't want to trouble you.
ATTN: If the shorthand of the link above does NOT work please let me know immiediately.
Peace,
apollodorus
Well, by "your channel" I should clarify that I meant exclusively your Zippcast.com channel when the site makes it easier to upload material. Zippcast is the new YouTube because like the old YouTube it allows users to artistically design and structure their channel in the specific way they want, including background images, voluminious profile descriptions etcetera. It is Feb. 27 2012 now and if YouTube does not decide to reverse its policy to destroy the user then Zippcast along with other brand-new pro-user sites will replace it. Dailymotion.com stinks and is not user friendly. Its like a backwater of video piles without free oldstyle YouTube user options.
Right now the only Muslim material on Zippcast is "isn't wonderful to be Muslim" and "cool new Arab pop song" trifle , but pretty soon there will be jihad and brainwash targeting Christians and Secular/"Pagan" culture in the West. There will need to be enough Skeptic and Christian videos up in time to counter the brainwash.
So my only idea for a mirror video was of a truly meaningful one: on Zippcast.com where it would really count.
Quote from: apollodorus on February 27, 2012, 07:14:48 PM
Well, by "your channel" I should clarify that I meant exclusively your Zippcast.com channel when the site makes it easier to upload material. Zippcast is the new YouTube because like the old YouTube it allows users to artistically design and structure their channel in the specific way they want, including background images, voluminious profile descriptions etcetera. It is Feb. 27 2012 now and if YouTube does not decide to reverse its policy to destroy the user then Zippcast along with other brand-new pro-user sites will replace it. Dailymotion.com stinks and is not user friendly. Its like a backwater of video piles without free oldstyle YouTube user options.
Right now the only Muslim material on Zippcast is "isn't wonderful to be Muslim" and "cool new Arab pop song" trifle , but pretty soon there will be jihad and brainwash targeting Christians and Secular/"Pagan" culture in the West. There will need to be enough Skeptic and Christian videos up in time to counter the brainwash.
So my only idea for a mirror video was of a truly meaningful one: on Zippcast.com where it would really count.
I just tried uploading again a few minutes ago, and the site maintenance warning came up as it did all day. There is no problem with you downloading and uploading that video as far as the original author is concerned. You could ask him here
http://www.youtube.com/user/allahalegg/
and I'm sure he'd be happy and encouraged, to hear from you.
I'm not sure where to put this so I'll put it here.
Via Yahoo: "...a state judge in Pennsylvania threw out an assault case involving a Muslim attacking an atheist for insulting the Prophet Muhammad. Judge Mark Martin, an Iraq war veteran, threw the case out after ruling that there was insufficient evidence. But then he berated the plaintiff in what appears to be an invocation of Sharia law. The incident occurred at the Mechanicsburg, Pa., Halloween parade where Ernie Perce, an atheist activist, marched as a zombie Muhammad. Talaag Elbayomy, a Muslim, was accused of attacking Perce...".* Ana Kasparian and Cenk Uygur discuss on The Young Turks.
This is the YouTube video:
User: TheYoungTurks
Video: Muslim Attacks Atheist For Insulting Muhammad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmPJaY3N4aQ
Americans need to get off their sofas, soda pops, brain-killing convenience dinners and "ball-games" get out of their television-distraction worship and false fantasies, get to know their neighbours and make a stand for America for what I love: Western Culture for the entire World! This toxic lassitude would never have existed one-hundred years ago. I dislike nationalism but we now need a rebirth of it!
I never expeirenced such intense hatred body-language and facial hostility my entire life as I did those six years when I stayed in that Lancaster Gate apartment (London).
Christianity has an advanced notion of the Divine compared to Islam:
*It is infinitely imminent
*It is infinitely Transcendent
*It comes to, humbly as a small child even in the lowly position of a servent
*You can see it ("the face of Christ") in everyday people, even the wretched imprisoned
*You are to Pray Without Ceasing. [stylization of stale traditions are broken there]
(learning to truly pray is sheer philosophy-theology; a deep inward movement)
As a final note: I'm very happy to see that 'annazakiya' who was thinking of converting to Islam chose Christianity instead. She is saving so many people from suffering physically and intellectually as their rights are withdrawn for Muslims by a 'politically correct' vapid shell of a 'democracy' by the corrupt powers-that-be . The hatred Muslims give to 'People of the Book or 'Infidels Worthy Of Death' are astounding and alien to most Westerners. I experienced a quiet but powerful form of this harshness.
In have confronted, rarely, peacable Muslims in full attire (men and women) who are kind in their body language and looks, but this is quite rare.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 01, 2012, 07:22:29 PMThis is the YouTube video:
User: TheYoungTurks
Video: Muslim Attacks Atheist For Insulting Muhammad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmPJaY3N4aQ
I'd like to split off your article and retitle it something like: "U.S. Muslim judge Mark Martin rules Muslim was obliged to attack parade reveler"
That TV network and show are unapologetic propaganda (that has a worldwide audience of maybe 6 people! :) ). The "young Turk", Cenk Uygur, immigrated from Turkey when he was 8 years old, which may be why the most important parts of the story were left out and whitewashed. I noticed in a comment on the video:
"Why didn't you bring up the fact that the judge recently converted to Islam??? The Muslim also admitted to a cop at the scene that he had assaulted him and the Muslim thought (being a recent immigrant) that what the atheist was doing was illegal. The Muslim thought he was allowed to attack him for being disrespectful.
You left out so much out of this story. C'mon."
(I almost never thumbs up or down a comment, but I did that one to try to help keep it near the top of the page. (before I realized the volume of posts being put on the video))
So I did a quick Google and the first story I clicked on:
http://jewishnews.sharepoint.com/Pages/16801.aspx
"
Judge Mark Martin, an Iraq war veteran and a convert to Islam, threw the case out in what appears to be an invocation of Sharia law."
"
Judge Martin threw the case out on the grounds that Elbayomy was obligated to attack Perce because of his culture and religion."
Yahoo "Judge Mark Martin convert to Islam muslim obligated to attack (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7ncBplBPMBYAWedXNyoA?p=Judge%20Mark%20Martin%20convert%20to%20Islam%20muslim%20obligated%20to%20attack&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701)"
http://investmentwatchblog.com/penn-judge-muslims-allowed-to-attack-people-for-insulting-mohammad/#.T1Cqenmep3o
"Judge Martin threw the case out on the grounds that Elbayomy was obligated to attack Perce because of his culture and religion.
Judge Martin stated that the First Amendment of the Constitution does not permit people to provoke other people. He also called Perce, the plaintiff in the case, a “doofus.†In effect, Perce was the perpetrator of the assault, in Judge Martin’s view, and Elbayomy the innocent. The Sharia law that the Muslim attacker followed trumped the First Amendment."Judge Martin needs to be imprisoned for tyranny and violating his oath to uphold and defend the constitution. A good old fashioned tar and feathering, and parading him through town in an oxcart on his way into prison, might help dissuade other activist judges (and Muslim representatives) from repeating his transgression.
About the "young turk"
Cenk Uygur - denier of Armenian genocide (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2509.msg10322#msg10322)
http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2008/3/3/14450/33428/Diary/Cenk-Uygur-owes-us-explanation-regarding-Armenian-Genocide
More on his propaganda
http://clancop.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/cenk-uygur-is-a-moron-clueless-creepy-and-downright-disturbing/
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2509.msg10322#msg10322
""The Republic of Turkey, the successor state of the Ottoman Empire, denies the word genocide is an accurate description of the events (see, Denial of the Armenian Genocide).[22] In recent years, it has faced repeated calls to accept the events as genocide. To date, twenty countries have officially recognized the events of the period as genocide, and most genocide scholars and historians accept this view.[23][24][25][26]""
Hello! :-)
You must direct your 'Crusade' in directions like this. People are so silly they may not question which Source predates which. What would you say about this video to people searching for God who watch it? Most are uninformed.
1500 year old Bible in which Jesus predicts the Coming of the Prophet Muhammad
Uploaded by TheTruthIsFromGod on Feb 29, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th3r3rlhgOI
Both the above and below are from a Muslim (nice guy) who posts on my channel. He even dropped the taqqiya 'there is no compulsion in religion':
In sum: 'Al Ma'arri: Case of Islamic Tolerance In 1000s Arabia'
There is the figure of Al Ma'arri (973-1053), a philosopher, ascetic and skeptic who denied that Islam was divinely inspired yet lived quite happily and peacefully in Arabia.
Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%CA%BFarri
Now if I were a college student and arguing against Islam and an Islamic student suddenly brought this up I would not know how to counter. This would serve an argument for “oh how lovely and peaceful Islam is, so tolerant…etc.etc.etc.â€
These info-sources are mainly posed for curiousity. How would you respond?
Peace. :-)
This Muslim is a very very nice person who admits he smokes hashish contrary to Islamic Law. He does not like the people who run Saudi Arabia (most Arabs don't). Please do not respond to him on my channel. He is not like BlackMuslim[devil]Convert who was full of hatred.
:)
Quote from: apollodorus on March 03, 2012, 01:00:41 PM
Hello! :-)
You must direct your 'Crusade' in directions like this.
So many lies, lies, and lies all around, an army couldn't even begin to address them. I just began working on Islamist propaganda in Wikipedia where they got caught with egg on their faces. The article tacitly admits that Muhammad's followers were praying toward (qibla) a garbage dump!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mosque#First_qibla
Gwaffaw! My response:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Aqsa_Mosque#Unhistorical_Islamic_propaganda
Quote from: apollodorus on March 03, 2012, 01:00:41 PMPeople are so silly they may not question which Source predates which. What would you say about this video to people searching for God who watch it? Most are uninformed.
1500 year old Bible in which Jesus predicts the Coming of the Prophet Muhammad
Uploaded by TheTruthIsFromGod on Feb 29, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th3r3rlhgOI
You're the second one that has shown it to me. I didn't hear anything about dating or authenticity, did you? Every week an explosive new book that will somehow make all of the prophets and witnesses in the Gospel wrong, and the
exact opposite of it's
whole subject correct. Every week a new YouTube Muslim flavor to chase. But even Bart Ehrman admits that there is simply too much evidence attesting to the crucifixion of Jesus to deny it.
That's the wonderful thing about being grounded in the Gospel. The same in the first century as it is today and tomorrow.
Regarding another Gospel of Barnabas, he not only claims Jesus predicted that Muhammad (by name) was coming, but Jesus admits that He is not the Messiah, but that Muhammad is! We have a forum article on the GoB.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=465.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 03, 2012, 01:00:41 PM
Both the above and below are from a Muslim (nice guy) who posts on my channel. He even dropped the taqqiya 'there is no compulsion in religion':
In sum: 'Al Ma'arri: Case of Islamic Tolerance In 1000s Arabia'
There is the figure of Al Ma'arri (973-1053), a philosopher, ascetic and skeptic who denied that Islam was divinely inspired yet lived quite happily and peacefully in Arabia.
Yet the skeptics of Muhammad's day were murdered. One female poet in her sleep, with her baby at her breast.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1012.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 03, 2012, 01:00:41 PM
Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%CA%BFarri
Now if I were a college student and arguing against Islam and an Islamic student suddenly brought this up I would not know how to counter. This would serve an argument for “oh how lovely and peaceful Islam is, so tolerant…etc.etc.etc.â€
These info-sources are mainly posed for curiousity. How would you respond?
Peace. :-)
I would inform him that he is a hypocrite:
Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise):
they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and
the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.
SLAYING NON-MUSLIMS IN "ALLAH'S" CAUSE IS BINDING ON MUHAMMAD'S FOLLOWERS IN THE QURAN!And that if he doesn't repent a true fundamental follower of Muhammad, who does as Muhammad did, and who does as Muhammad instructed him to do, will cut his head off.
Sahih Al-Bukhari - "
Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars.
By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish.
Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite." page 580 of Maktba Dar-us-Salam's Sahih Al-Bukhari
And then maybe drop a link to this video on him
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2948.0
If he's peaceful he needs to understand that the most violent and murderous among his brethren, are the ones who must necessarily prevail. Like the Taliban, or whoever takes over that is worse. That is the future he is condemning his heirs to. Getting his head cut off for smoking dope. Or even getting his head cut off for simply not showing up for prayers. Ask him how he would like it if this was his town.
AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm
Thank you very much, I really appreciate the thoroughness of your response!
Peace.
Look, I have never been contacted by Muslims in unusual ways or at all till these past 2 months when I decided to join and contribute to the forum.
The only explanation is that some Muslims are finally responding, unfortunately, to critical comments I made about Islam under some videos I watched about six or seven months ago now. Perhaps this will be uninteresting to you, but I enclose it:
from peacemessage949:
I want you to read the following and be honest
with your self at the end and decide in a moment of truth with oneself.......... Allah (The Creator of the Heaven and the earth) the one to be worshiped with perfect love and perfect submission created
us for a great purpose and that is to worship Him alone, to turn to Him alone, to pray to Him alone...He sent Messengers from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Jacob, etc ....till the final Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon all of them. They all came with the same message and that is " No one is worthy of worship except Allah" .....all the creation of Allah submitted itself to the Creator willingly or unwillingly as Allah The Most High says in the Quran " Do they seek other than the religion of Allah (the true Islamic
Monotheism worshiping none but Allah Alone), while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned" ( 3:83)
We were born without being asked, when we were in the womb of our mothers, who took care of us there? when we came out to this earth who took care of us then? who is the one that put the love in the hearts of every mother to take care of her child? who is the one that provides for us food, water, etc. we breath the air that He created for us.....for what reason? He is the Most WIse and the Most Merciful........all of that is to worship Him alone and not to set rivals with Him. A Muslim believes in all the Messengers and honor them they are the best of all the humanbeings, what was the message of Abraham? did he worship Jesus (Peace be upon him)? what was the Religion of Abraham? was it Christianity or Judaism? it didn't exist then....it was ISLAM......submitting to Allah the Most High......"
Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim (meaning in the state of submission to Allah) Hanifa (someone that would stay away from associating partners with Allah) and he was not of Al-Mushrikun (Polytheists)" (3: 67)
If you believe in the Creator of the heavens and the earth, that He is the creator, sustainer etc.....if you believe that He is the only one worthy of worship not any of His creation not a Prophet from Adam till Muhammed Peace be unto all of them and including Jesus Peace be upon him.....if you believe in that say now with your tongue "I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO ONE WORTHY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT ALLAH.....AND I BEAR WITNESS THAT PROPHET MUHAMMED IS THE FINAL MESSENGER OF ALLAH"
This is the Shahada but you have to say it in Arabic also, so read out loud the following translation......"ASH HADU ALLA ILLAHA ILLA ALLAH.....WA ASH HADU ANNA MUHAMMADAN RASOOL UL ALLAH"
That's it as simple as that...and then take the time to learn step by step the beauty of this religion, you don't need to learn everything
first to say the shahada because if you beleive in what is written above just say it and then take the time to learn.....
May Allah The Most High guide us all to the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwd_df9NcIQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=841R8wCBo7c&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rzgNuny8yg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
You are welcome to visit our friendly sites where you can
Read more about Islam*
http://www.islamic-invitation.com
Chat free 1/1 with knowledgeable Muslims*
http://www.chatislamonline.org OR http://www.edialogue.org
*Ask questions about Islam
http://www.islamreligion.com
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PM
Look, I have never been contacted by Muslims in unusual ways or at all till these past 2 months when I decided to join and contribute to the forum.
The only explanation is that some Muslims are finally responding, unfortunately, to critical comments I made about Islam under some videos I watched about six or seven months ago now. Perhaps this will be uninteresting to you, but I enclose it:
from peacemessage949:
I want you to read the following and be honest
with your self at the end and decide in a moment of truth with oneself.......... Allah (The Creator of the Heaven and the earth) the one to be worshiped with perfect love and perfect submission created
us for a great purpose and that is to worship Him alone, to turn to Him alone, to pray to Him alone...He sent Messengers from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Jacob, etc ....till the final Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon all of them. They all came with the same message and that is " No one is worthy of worship except Allah" .....all the creation of Allah submitted itself to the Creator willingly or unwillingly as Allah The Most High says in the Quran " Do they seek other than the religion of Allah (the true Islamic
Monotheism worshiping none but Allah Alone), while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned" ( 3:83)
We were born without being asked, when we were in the womb of our mothers, who took care of us there? when we came out to this earth who took care of us then? who is the one that put the love in the hearts of every mother to take care of her child? who is the one that provides for us food, water, etc. we breath the air that He created for us.....for what reason? He is the Most WIse and the Most Merciful........all of that is to worship Him alone and not to set rivals with Him. A Muslim believes in all the Messengers and honor them they are the best of all the humanbeings, what was the message of Abraham? did he worship Jesus (Peace be upon him)? what was the Religion of Abraham? was it Christianity or Judaism? it didn't exist then....it was ISLAM......submitting to Allah the Most High......"
Abraham had no religion. He was communicated directly with by the one true God Yahweh Himself.
What he calls Islam is a 7th century invention of the false prophet Muhammad that even today engages in thinly veneered Sabian and Quraish pagan rituals.
God's covenant passed from Abraham, through Isaac and his son Jacob, whom God renamed Israel.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=abraham+isaac+jacob&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=abraham+isaac+israel&t=KJV&sf=5
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/are-modern-jews-descendants-of-abraham-isaac-and-jacob
God's covenant was specifically NOT with the seed of Ishmael. Indeed it seems God didn't even recognize Ishmael as Abraham's son, after Abraham turned his wife Sarah's handmaiden Hagar and her son Ishmael, out of his house.
Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son,
thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest...
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2771.0
Then Yeshua (which means Yahweh saves, rescues or delivers) ushered in a new covenant nearly 2,000 years ago. That new covenant was prophesied in the old covenant by Jeremiah.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0
Your friend is trying to live 3500 years ago, specifically to avoid the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. Of the new covenant. Which is salvation from sin through faith in the shed blood of the Messiah. Here is the lineage of the Messiah
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/messianicprophecies.html
Jesus crucifixion was prophesied many hundreds of years in advance.
You can give him a link to this video on that subject.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2641.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PMAbraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim (meaning in the state of submission to Allah) Hanifa (someone that would stay away from associating partners with Allah) and he was not of Al-Mushrikun (Polytheists)" (3: 67)
"
Ahnaf is a pagan Arabian religious group which began at the time of Mohammed. It had nothing to do with the faith of Abraham.Islamic tradition claims that at the time of Mohammed, there was a group of people who refused to be either Jews or Christians, but instead, they claimed to be of the “faith of Abraham,†which, according to Islam, would mean they were the true followers of Abraham, and continued throughout history. They called themselves “Ahnaf “ or “Honafa.“
This claim is blatantly false. Nowhere in the pages of history was there a religion of Abraham called “ Hanifaâ€. Abraham was never called “Hanifa†nor did Abraham ever call himself “Hanif,†nor did he establish a religion. Faith in the God of the Bible did not begin with Abraham nor did it begin in his lifetime. Before Abraham, the Bible presented men such as Enoch and Noah with whom God spoke and fellowshipped."
Much more at the link
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/index_articles/ahnaf.htm
Dr. Rafat Amari studied the subject 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 20 years without vacation, and his first language is Arabic and his studies included original source materials.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PM
If you believe in the Creator of the heavens and the earth, that He is the creator, sustainer etc.....if you believe that He is the only one worthy of worship not any of His creation not a Prophet from Adam till Muhammed Peace be unto all of them and including Jesus Peace be upon him.....if you believe in that say now with your tongue "I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO ONE WORTHY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT ALLAH.....AND I BEAR WITNESS THAT PROPHET MUHAMMED IS THE FINAL MESSENGER OF ALLAH"
And the Mormons believe Joseph Smith was the final messenger. That's why the bible warned us
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
But Muhammad didn't even bother with the sheep's clothing but came as an imperialistic conquering, mass murdering, child doing, female prisoner abusing, self-admitted terrorist, and thief. Scripture mentions a specific false prophet and his kingdom "beast".
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where
the beast and
the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PMThis is the Shahada but you have to say it in Arabic also, so read out loud the following translation......"ASH HADU ALLA ILLAHA ILLA ALLAH.....WA ASH HADU ANNA MUHAMMADAN RASOOL UL ALLAH"
That's it as simple as that.....
It's as simple as that to become eligible for beheading by Muhammad's followers for apostasy, if one decides they don't want to be a Muhammadan any more.
Very much different to become a Christian:
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PM....and then take the time to learn step by step the beauty of this religion, .......
How beautiful to you think it is for the 2 million Africans that have been killed or displaced in the Sudan alone, by Arab African Muslims?
Or the thousand Christians killed recently on the Ivory Coast of Africa?
The churches burned and Christians killed in Egypt?
The 3 teenage girls beheaded on their way to Christian school in Indonesia?
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PM........ you don't need to learn everything
first to say the shahada because if you beleive in what is written above just say it and then take the time to learn.....
May Allah The Most High guide us all to the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwd_df9NcIQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=841R8wCBo7c&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rzgNuny8yg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
You are welcome to visit our friendly sites where you can
Read more about Islam*
http://www.islamic-invitation.com
Chat free 1/1 with knowledgeable Muslims*
http://www.chatislamonline.org OR http://www.edialogue.org
*Ask questions about Islam
http://www.islamreligion.com
Good. Then the first question to ask is why they prostrate themselves to the very same black stone idol that the Quraish pagan's venerated while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen", and why they run back and forth between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah, as the Arabian jinn-devil worshipers did.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Then ask them to present all of the historical and archaeological evidence that suggested that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, that is so compelling that they reject the historical record in scripture that is confirmed by the archaeological and geographical EVIDENCE, and fulfilled prophecy, to believe the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel through
Muhammad's STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record.http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2447.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PM
Look, I have never been contacted by Muslims in unusual ways or at all till these past 2 months when I decided to join and contribute to the forum.
The only explanation is that some Muslims are finally responding, unfortunately, to critical comments I made about Islam under some videos I watched about six or seven months ago now. Perhaps this will be uninteresting to you, but I enclose it:
from peacemessage949:
I want you to read the following and be honest
with your self at the end and decide in a moment of truth with oneself.......... Allah (The Creator of the Heaven and the earth) .........
"Allah" is the name of an Arabian pagan deity.
The etomology suggests the pagan's moon god http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slLBam06iyg
The Creator's name is YHWH as it occurs over 6,000 times in scripture and in paleo-hebrew inscription that dates to the 9th century BC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjFssul-1fk
Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 05:27:33 AM........ the one to be worshiped with perfect love and perfect submission created
us for a great purpose and that is to worship Him alone, to turn to Him alone, to pray to Him alone...He sent Messengers from Adam to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Jacob, etc ....till the final Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon all of them. They all came with the same message and that is " No one is worthy of worship except Allah" .....all the creation of Allah submitted itself to the Creator willingly or unwillingly as Allah The Most High says in the Quran " Do they seek other than the religion of Allah (the true Islamic
Monotheism worshiping none but Allah Alone), .......
There was a Sabian sect that were a monotheistic moon worshipers.
The Jews were monotheistic worshipers of the ONE TRUE GOD of the scriptures thousands of years before Muhammad, and Christians were monotheists 600 years before Muhammad.
Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 05:27:33 AM...... while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned" ( 3:83)
We were born without being asked, when we were in the womb of our mothers, who took care of us there? when we came out to this earth who took care of us then? who is the one that put the love in the hearts of every mother to take care of her child? who is the one that provides for us food, water, etc. we breath the air that He created for us.....for what reason? He is the Most WIse and the Most Merciful........all of that is to worship Him alone and not to set rivals with Him. A Muslim believes in all the Messengers and honor them they are the best of all the humanbeings, what was the message of Abraham? did he worship Jesus (Peace be upon him)? what was the Religion of Abraham? was it Christianity or Judaism? it didn't exist then....it was ISLAM......submitting to Allah the Most High......"
Abraham had no religion. He was communicated with directly by the one true God Yahweh Himself.
What he calls Islam is a 7th century invention of the false prophet Muhammad that even today engages in thinly veneered Sabian and Quraish pagan rituals centered around the Quraish pagan's kaaba.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1227.0
God's covenant passed from Abraham, through Isaac and his son Jacob, whom God renamed Israel.
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=abraham+isaac+jacob&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=abraham+isaac+israel&t=KJV&sf=5
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/are-modern-jews-descendants-of-abraham-isaac-and-jacob
God's covenant was specifically NOT with the seed of Ishmael. Indeed it seems God didn't even recognize Ishmael as Abraham's son, after Abraham turned his wife Sarah's handmaiden Hagar and her son Ishmael, out of his house.
Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son,
thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest...
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2771.0
Then Yeshua (which means Yahweh saves, rescues or delivers) ushered in a new covenant nearly 2,000 years ago. That new covenant was prophesied in the old covenant by Jeremiah.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=537.0
Your friend is trying to live 3500 years ago, specifically to avoid the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. Of the new covenant. Which is salvation from sin through faith in the shed blood of the Messiah. Here is the lineage of the Messiah
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/messianicprophecies.html
Jesus crucifixion was prophesied many hundreds of years in advance.
You can give him a link to this video on that subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAQHFVn7H2Q
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2641.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PMAbraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim (meaning in the state of submission to Allah) Hanifa (someone that would stay away from associating partners with Allah) and he was not of Al-Mushrikun (Polytheists)" (3: 67)
"
Ahnaf is a pagan Arabian religious group which began at the time of Mohammed. It had nothing to do with the faith of Abraham.Islamic tradition claims that at the time of Mohammed, there was a group of people who refused to be either Jews or Christians, but instead, they claimed to be of the “faith of Abraham,†which, according to Islam, would mean they were the true followers of Abraham, and continued throughout history. They called themselves “Ahnaf “ or “Honafa.“
This claim is blatantly false. Nowhere in the pages of history was there a religion of Abraham called “ Hanifaâ€. Abraham was never called “Hanifa†nor did Abraham ever call himself “Hanif,†nor did he establish a religion. Faith in the God of the Bible did not begin with Abraham nor did it begin in his lifetime. Before Abraham, the Bible presented men such as Enoch and Noah with whom God spoke and fellowshipped."
"Islamic claims about Honafa’ or Ahnaf
There are no mention of Ahnaf in the Jahilieh period before Islam. This fact is recognizable by Islamic scholars themselves. Jawad Ali, an Iraqi Islamic scholar, says, “There is nothing about Ahnaf in Arabian sources before Islam. most the information that Islamic authors provide is obscure and a fabrication. â€[1] Jawad Ali goes on to say, “We have no mention of Ahnaf in the Jahilieh nor in the classical writings of the Greeks and Romans. Therefore, our knowledge about them was only through Islamic literature.â€[ii]
Here we see clearly that the idea of a religion in Arabia called Hanafieh which claims an affiliation with the faith of Abraham is not based on history. If this religion had existed, it would have been practiced, not in Arabia, but in Israel, where Abraham lived most of his life. But neither Israelite nor Greek nor Roman historians ever mention a religion called Hanifieh built on Abraham. It’s implausible that this kind of religion would be unknown to the historians and still be practiced at the time of Mohammed in the desert of Mecca. No one has heard of it since the time of Abraham. "
Much more at the link
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/index_articles/ahnaf.htm
Dr. Rafat Amari studied the subject 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 20 years without vacation, and his first language is Arabic and his studies included original source materials.
I just copy and pasted his article in this link for discussion
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3099.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PM
If you believe in the Creator of the heavens and the earth, that He is the creator, sustainer etc.....if you believe that He is the only one worthy of worship not any of His creation not a Prophet from Adam till Muhammed Peace be unto all of them and including Jesus Peace be upon him.....if you believe in that say now with your tongue "I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO ONE WORTHY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT ALLAH.....AND I BEAR WITNESS THAT PROPHET MUHAMMED IS THE FINAL MESSENGER OF ALLAH"
And the Mormons believe Joseph Smith was the final messenger. That's why the bible warned us
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
But Muhammad didn't even bother with the sheep's clothing but came as an imperialistic conquering, mass murdering, child doing, female prisoner abusing, self-admitted terrorist, and thief. Scripture mentions a specific false prophet and his kingdom "beast".
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where
the beast and
the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam__quran_and_666.htm
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PMThis is the Shahada but you have to say it in Arabic also, so read out loud the following translation......"ASH HADU ALLA ILLAHA ILLA ALLAH.....WA ASH HADU ANNA MUHAMMADAN RASOOL UL ALLAH"
That's it as simple as that.....
It's as simple as that to become eligible for beheading by Muhammad's followers for apostasy, if one decides they don't want to be a Muhammadan any more.
Very much different to become a Christian:
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PM....and then take the time to learn step by step the beauty of this religion, .......
How beautiful to you think it is for the 2 million Africans that have been killed or displaced in the Sudan alone, by Arab African Muslims?
Or the thousand Christians killed recently on the Ivory Coast of Africa?
The churches burned and Christians killed in Egypt?
The 3 teenage girls beheaded on their way to Christian school in Indonesia?
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm
Quote from: apollodorus on March 05, 2012, 08:55:07 PM........ you don't need to learn everything
first to say the shahada because if you beleive in what is written above just say it and then take the time to learn.....
May Allah The Most High guide us all to the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwd_df9NcIQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=841R8wCBo7c&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rzgNuny8yg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
You are welcome to visit our friendly sites where you can
Read more about Islam*
http://www.islamic-invitation.com
Chat free 1/1 with knowledgeable Muslims*
http://www.chatislamonline.org OR http://www.edialogue.org
*Ask questions about Islam
http://www.islamreligion.com
Good. Then the first question to ask is why they prostrate themselves to the very same black stone idol that the Quraish pagan's venerated while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen", and why they run back and forth between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah, as the Arabian jinn-devil worshipers did.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Then ask them to present all of the historical and archaeological evidence that suggested that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, that is so compelling that they reject the historical record in scripture that is confirmed by the archaeological and geographical EVIDENCE, and fulfilled prophecy, to believe the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel through
Muhammad's STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record.http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2447.0
Wow! Thank you so much, I will be sure to read that all as soon as I get a chance.
Allow me to note that peacemessage949's channel was only opened on February 21, 2012 and there is absolutely No, Zero content in it. So it looks like it was opened specifically to address me (arguably), which rather creeped me out when I first received the message.
Probably just some Egyptian who wanted to create a good impresssion of Islam for me. On the other hand don't they give invitations to Islam before they attack people?
Most likely its nothing.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 06, 2012, 10:00:13 AM
Wow! Thank you so much, I will be sure to read that all as soon as I get a chance.
Allow me to note that peacemessage949's channel was only opened on February 21, 2012 and there is absolutely No, Zero content in it. So it looks like it was opened specifically to address me (arguably), which rather creeped me out when I first received the message.
They drop and start new channel IDs all the time because they are constantly caught flat-footed and embarrassed. The virtual world allows them to destroy their former selves and try again as a new person.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 06, 2012, 10:00:13 AMProbably just some Egyptian who wanted to create a good impresssion of Islam for me. On the other hand don't they give invitations to Islam before they attack people?
Most likely its nothing.
Sure they do. They will suck folks in any way they can. But as you know they are empty-handed when it comes to history, archaeology and the geographical impossibility of their "traditions". The only prophecy in the Quran is things that were already known at the time or nonsense and Muhammad had false prophecy as well.
Yet consider fulfilled bible prophecy.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2447.0
"They drop and start new channel IDs all the time because they are constantly caught flat-footed and embarrassed. The virtual world allows them to destroy their former selves and try again as a new person."
They should be Hindu/Buddhist since they are so fond of rebirth! ;-)
Hello! I would be very grateful if you could refresh my memory:
What was that ruthlessly unchristian Tanakh which is available free for all to read online? I would be very grateful if you could post the link (if it is not too much trouble).
Thank you very much. :-)
Quote from: apollodorus on March 27, 2012, 08:07:38 PM
Hello! I would be very grateful if you could refresh my memory:
What was that ruthlessly unchristian Tanakh which is available free for all to read online? I would be very grateful if you could post the link (if it is not too much trouble).
Thank you very much. :-)
It's unjewish as well because the Jews do not consider it inspired. Look at it like reading false doctrine from a cult like Jehovah's Witness or Mormons. The book is called the Talmud. We have a prohibition of anyone quoting from it in here unless they honestly declare they follow Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russel and Ellen White - simultaneously (founders of the cults of LDS, Jehovah's Witness, and SDA). It is a dangerous book and here's what happened to a Christian that spent too much time with his nose in it, as some do that desire to use it to accuse our faithful Jewish brethren. You could receive the same spirits. I am only showing you this in case you had any doubts about the spirit world.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2795.msg12719#msg12719
However Shining Man with Hurt Hands is a better illustration and is not a danger to read.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=31.0
Now that is some very valuable information you sent me.
But I fear due to my own deficiencies I have caused a misunderstanding. Please forgive me.
I used to own a nice hardback version of the JEWISH BIBLE which I recall was termed 'Tanakh' on the cover. I was not looking at the Talmud (and so far as the Talmud is concerned I would only be interested in the Babylonian Talmud when I get the time).
My only question was about finding a good translation of the JEWISH BIBLE (5 books of Moses etcetera) online which is very thoroughly Jewish, no apologies in translating process to the Christians.
If all JEWISH BIBLES translated into English happen to be that way please excuse my ignorance but I have not had the chance to continue studying Antiquity & Religions since I graduated 8 years ago. I only took a few classes to satisfy my childhood interests.
Pax Dei Tecum.
Not to overload you with questions but I may as well fire off this other one:
In the past 15 years there have been two thoroughly researched, scholarly books defending 1. The Historicity of the Resurrection 2. The Historical Existence of a Jesus Christ character.
These are two which are (or were) said to stand above all others in taking an 'objective' (whatever that means) perspective like any Biblical Scholar of Higher Criticism.
If you are familiar with this there is no rush in answering this question. If you don't know that's fine.
Thank you very much, I really appreciate it.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 11:53:18 AM
Not to overload you with questions .......
Don't ever worry about that my friend. Sorry for the delay. I am writing a video on the Serpent Seed doctrine and Arnold Murray and the "'Christian' Identity" groups (Nazis, skinheads, KKK)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3150.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 11:53:18 AM....... but I may as well fire off this other one:
In the past 15 years there have been two thoroughly researched, scholarly books defending 1. The Historicity of the Resurrection 2. The Historical Existence of a Jesus Christ character.
Former atheist Lee Strobel does a good job of that as do other ex-atheists, as is usually the case from those that overcome any "doctrine" from ex-Muslims to ex-Roman Catholics.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2572.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 11:53:18 AM
These are two which are (or were) said to stand above all others in taking an 'objective' (whatever that means) perspective like any Biblical Scholar of Higher Criticism.
If you are familiar with this there is no rush in answering this question. If you don't know that's fine.
Thank you very much, I really appreciate it.
An even more compelling case for me is the fulfillment of Jesus crucifixion in Old and new Testament prophecy.
Old Testament
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0
New Testament including Jesus' own prophecies
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2439.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3080.0
statistical odds of this
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2447.0
Thank You.
I hope you won't mind another question. There are only Catholic Bibles to which I can immiediately refer so I cannot check this quickly.
Question: Are the Two Letters To Timothy and the Letter To Titus in your Protestant Bible?
(I have lost track of the denomination you follow. I know that you are 'born again' but you are coming from a certain denomination in your thinking, don't you? I assume that all Protestants: Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, Episcopaelians et al. have the same Bible Books don't they? And Catholics and Orthodox folk have a few extra books distinguishing them from Protestants. Is this picture correct?)
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 05:27:33 PM
I hope you won't mind another question. There are only Catholic Bibles to which I can immiediately refer so I cannot check this quickly.
Question: Are the Two Letters To Timothy and the Letter To Titus in your Protestant Bible?
(I have lost track of the denomination you follow. I know that you are 'born again' but you are coming from a certain denomination in your thinking, don't you? I assume that all Protestants: Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, Episcopaelians et al. have the same Bible Books don't they? And Catholics and Orthodox folk have a few extra books distinguishing them from Protestants. Is this picture correct?)
Protestants: Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, Episcopaelians et al. use many different Bible translations but to the best of my knowledge all Bible translations contain the 2 Epistles from Timothy and the 1 from Titus. I would suggest that of the English translations the KJV is without a doubt the most accurate translation.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 05:27:33 PM
I hope you won't mind another question. There are only Catholic Bibles to which I can immiediately refer so I cannot check this quickly.
Question: Are the Two Letters To Timothy and the Letter To Titus in your Protestant Bible?
Yes they are.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#1
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Ti&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#1
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Tts&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#1
The Apocrypha was added to the Roman Catholic bible in 1546, I think as part of an anti-reformation effort. Those books are usually found between the Old and New Testaments in Catholic bibles, because they date to before the Christian era. Jews do not consider those books inspired, nor do Protestants because of internal errors.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=902.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 05:27:33 PM
(I have lost track of the denomination you follow. I know that you are 'born again' but you are coming from a certain denomination in your thinking, don't you?
I guess the answer would be from Protestantism in general. The last church I attended was the non-denominational Calvary Chapel denomination. :)
Though I loved singing to the contemporary music with thousands of other Christians it became increasingly difficult for me to keep hearing the influence of futurist doctrine, threaded in. At least futurists have a big heart for the Lord and love Jews - and everybody else.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 05:27:33 PMI assume that all Protestants: Lutherans, Calvinists, Baptists, Episcopaelians et al. have the same Bible Books don't they?
Yes. And most all should have to admit that the King James version is the most reliable, as it is based on the Textus Receptus Greek text. Modern bibles are almost universally based on a corrupt 19th century minority Greek text penned by two English spiritualists named Westcott and Hort.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=81.0
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 05:27:33 PMAnd Catholics and Orthodox folk have a few extra books distinguishing them from Protestants. Is this picture correct?)
Uninspired books they added 1500 years into the Christian era. Let alone the steady stream of dogma, and particularly Mariology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Mariology
Now what do you say the original sin in the Garden of Eden was? What is meant by 'eating of the tree of the knowledge of good & evil'?
By the way, one example of the way Christians seek and challenge knowledge (like philosophers) in a way Muslims never could is seen in Fig Leaf Forum
http://www.figleafforum.com/
There is something very grovelling and slavish about Islam. Muslims cannot even shower communally (nude) like any athletes.
In Boarding School after P.E. the few Muslims students stood boastfully and proudly aside while other students showered. The Muslim students were always quite arrogant.
One boy kept saying week after week: Islam will conquer the U.K., Islam will conquer the U.K. (yes, believe it or not). This was back before the Muslim population was such a large eye-sore in London.
Thank you.
I cannot help but enclose this here:
Klezfiddle1
Restoring The Sound Of King David's Lyre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eQOGFAVVjE
This is a man who attampts to restore the music of the Ancient World from Romans & Greeks to Jews & Egyptians with scholarly research and imaginitive deployment of the ancient performance practices...so far as we can glean them.
I have been telling others about this too. But no fans of Antiquity around me. Hope you enjoy! :-)
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 09:04:52 PM
Now what do you say the original sin in the Garden of Eden was? What is meant by 'eating of the tree of the knowledge of good & evil'?
By the way, one example of the way Christians seek and challenge knowledge (like philosophers) in a way Muslims never could is seen in Fig Leaf Forum
http://www.figleafforum.com/
There is no shortage of folks that falsely claim they are Christian, or have been deceived, or deceived themselves, into believing they are Christian. There are even some self-proclaimed Christian groups that promote unmarried sexual partner swapping, and a guy named Dr. Ralph Underwager who claims to be a Lutheran pastor who promotes pedophilia as being of God.
When a person is born again, the law is written on our hearts.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 28, 2012, 09:04:52 PMThere is something very grovelling and slavish about Islam. Muslims cannot even shower communally (nude) like any athletes.
In Boarding School after P.E. the few Muslims students stood boastfully and proudly aside while other students showered. The Muslim students were always quite arrogant.
One boy kept saying week after week: Islam will conquer the U.K., Islam will conquer the U.K. (yes, believe it or not). This was back before the Muslim population was such a large eye-sore in London.
Thank you.
The student was right, thanks to the secularization of Europe, as Winston Churchill had tacitly warned.
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live…The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities…but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.
Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa…and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled,
the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.†- by Sir Winston Churchill - The River War, Vol. II, pp. 248-50, London; Longman, Green & Co.,
1899Quite prophetic words as Europe turned its back on God while Islam fills the vacuum. There are only two spiritual forces at work in this world. Good and evil.
By the way, lest I cause a misunderstanding (I seem to have done so) please know I am quite an advocate of Naturism for Christians, Pagans and all. (Obviously only those Christians who care to do it. There are different Christian Theologies, and there should be.)
From my side I was in no way implying the Fig Leaf Forum folk are fake Christians. You, however, are free to do so and I DO NOT wish to argue with you.
I will only add that the Clothist mentality damaged me psychologically when I was a child and I will not add more.
I ought to have posed those two comments (Fig Leaf Forum; Original Sin) as two seperate posts.
***
So what do you say the Original Sin in the Garden of Eden was? Thank You.
...And clothing should be treated merely PRACTICALLY or merely DECORATIVELY.
Ha! Ha! I am too Greek most surely! :-D
Genesis 3
3Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God say, ‘You shall not eat from any tree in the garden’?â€2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden;3but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, nor shall you touch it, or you shall die.’“4But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die;5for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.â€
6So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate.7Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made loincloths for themselves.8They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?â€10He said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.â€
11He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?â€12The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate.â€13Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?†The woman said, “The serpent tricked me, and I ate.â€
14The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you among all animals and among all wild creatures; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.15I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.â€
16To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.â€
17And to the man he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;18thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field.19By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return.â€
20The man named his wife Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
21And the LORD God made garments of skins for the man and for his wife, and clothed them.
22Then the LORD God said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live foreverâ€â€"23therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken.24He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life. [NRSV]
http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Genesis+1:27-31&vnum=yes&version=nrsv
“garments of skinsâ€
I am very curious to know what is the meaning of the original Hebrew for “garments of skinsâ€
Garments/of skins what precisely does this indicate.?
Christian writer Mary Jo Weaver has this to say in Introduction To Christianity (International Thomson Publishing, London, 1998), p. 33
“God created a man and a woman, gave them everything they could possibly want in terms of comfort and power, and added one more gift, freedom. God wanted them to respond freely, not by force. No, the biblical authors tell us, this gift of freedom was put to a test in a very direct way. God told them they could eat the fruit of every tree in the garden except one. It is the doctrine of conditional joy…In religious language, we say that the first man and woman were tempted, egged on to do something they were not supposed to do. In the biblical story, the man and woman weakened and gave in, and the biblical author says it was because they were tempted by a clever serptent. How can we interpret this story, then? Were the man and woman out-smarted? Were they just weak and curious? Did they sin? Some believers interpret the action of the first man and woman as one of pride and self-deception, others as an expression of the desire of people to set their own limits, be their own God. Whatever the interpretation, their action, their disobedience, changed thingsâ€"life was no longer lived in a beautiful garden. Painful realities entered into human life: work now included frustration and might be fruitless as well as difficult, birth occurred within a context of pain, and sickness and death became a part of human experience…â€
And what was so worthy of suffering and death? One has to imagine, particularly a non-Christian not raised by Christians, like myself, will be quite curious.
This fellow says the original sin was sex!
MarkOfBeastRevealed
http://www.youtube.com/user/MarkofBeastRevealed?ob=0&feature=results_main
as in this video where he is quite passionate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIR-IpjxpxY
And the Muslims also think masturbation is evil and against their demon allah, as below from one sarmadq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-dHgqldTEM
By the way, forgive me if these questions are quite basic. I will pose but one more basic question and perhaps not even soon. (Also do not feel rushed I understand you are quite busy.) Thank you so much! :-)
Quote from: apollodorus on March 29, 2012, 10:50:10 AM
I ought to have posed those two comments (Fig Leaf Forum; Original Sin) as two seperate posts.
***
So what do you say the Original Sin in the Garden of Eden was? Thank You.
As the Islam Christian forum this subject is a bit off of the reservation but I'll entertain about one related question. You can google up lots of folks that have devoted themselves to this area of scripture. I'd advise against seeking out folks that follow a god of their own creation that suits their convenience.
The original sin was the same as it is throughout the bible and unto today -
disobedience to God. Adam and Eve didn't have any idea what sin was until they disobeyed God, whereupon their eyes were opened to good and evil (which is what the fruit of that tree imparted as a result of their disobedience) and they felt shame for having disobeyed God. Since their nakedness didn't have anything to do with their sin, based on their reaction I can easily assume that walking around naked is sinful and shameful. If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned perhaps the normal state of mankind would be naked today. But they blew it, so it isn't.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 29, 2012, 10:48:01 AM
By the way, lest I cause a misunderstanding (I seem to have done so) please know I am quite an advocate of Naturism for Christians, Pagans and all. (Obviously only those Christians who care to do it. There are different Christian Theologies, and there should be.)
From a Christian standpoint, only if they can be supported by scripture. Also we try to stick to the King James bible. http://www.blueletterbible.org/ Being with nature doesn't equal, or isn't the same as, being with God. They are two separate subjects. Scripture, as well as what you might call my conscience, indicates to me that I should feel shame if I were to walk around naked. Here may be a couple more hints.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=naked+shame&t=KJV&sf=5
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
So in trying to keep from disobeying God I wear clothes. I always try to err on the safe side. I'm happiest when I am being obedient to God and unhappy when I am not. In this case the answer is obvious if nothing more than clothed = normal, and naked = not normal, or aberrant. Let alone the extra energy that would be burned to keep warm!
Quote from: apollodorus on March 29, 2012, 10:48:01 AMFrom my side I was in no way implying the Fig Leaf Forum folk are fake Christians. You, however, are free to do so and I DO NOT wish to argue with you.
I will only add that the Clothist mentality damaged me psychologically when I was a child and I will not add more.
Thank you very much, I believe I now understand.
IF original sin is disobedience to your God's command, and such is carried from the Beginning by Man unto this Day,
THEN if God commands anything, whatever it is, however drastic or extreme, you are obliged to do it; and the measure of recognizing your God's command from something making merely the appearance of your God (e.g. aliens, evil spirits, demons) is determined by the outlines of your Holy Book.
So the original sin is merely general: 'disobeying God's command' NOT specific: e.g. 'engaging in sex' as MarkOfBeastRevealed says.
I only summed it up because I am interested in ensuring I understand.
My next post will be on Islam.
Thank you very much again, I appreciate it! :-)
Quote from: apollodorus on March 29, 2012, 07:43:05 PM
Thank you very much, I believe I now understand.
IF original sin is disobedience to your God's command, and such is carried from the Beginning by Man unto this Day,
THEN if God commands anything, whatever it is, however drastic or extreme, you are obliged to do it; and the measure of recognizing your God's command from something making merely the appearance of your God (e.g. aliens, evil spirits, demons) is determined by the outlines of your Holy Book.
So the original sin is merely general: 'disobeying God's command' NOT specific: e.g. 'engaging in sex' as MarkOfBeastRevealed says.
Scripture does not say sex is wrong between two married people. If it were wrong then it would mean that God didn't want mankind to exist (though I can see how He must have had His fill of us by now!). Sex outside of a marital relationship is fornication and is sin. God makes these rules for our benefit. Consider the explosion in STDs vaginal warts AIDS and such that result from sexual promiscuity outside of marriage.
Quote from: apollodorus on March 29, 2012, 07:43:05 PMI only summed it up because I am interested in ensuring I understand.
My next post will be on Islam.
Thank you very much again, I appreciate it! :-)
I have requested to mirror this superb and entertaining video:
Video: Watch This And You Will Convert To Islam
User: ChristianKing2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htcrNQYBAKA
This is an excellent educational piece on how violently and with how much bloodshed Profit $$$ Mohammed spread his false message, erasing the ancient customs of people around him. This video is about how his army brutally and devilishly tore apart the elderly matriarch of a local Arab tribe.
Last night I was pleased to see educational and heart-warming comments from a Christian, one '2704Michael' below this video:
"don't give me any [****] about them being kaffir and that that is exceptable that would be intolerant wouldn't it and islam isn't intolerant or is it. i will say thankyou islam for waking me up bringing me closer to my christian roots, moral decent people all over the world a realizing its time for change they are taking notice of what is happening all tolerant religions all races all creeds don't want anymore of what you have to offer"
"don't forget to google muslim rape gangs europe or just check the stats for rape in sweden and compare it to the muslim demographic for that country it is shameful, another stat check the muslim demographic against the social welfare budget in Sweden its f***en wrong and you all should be ashamed"
Now a Muslim, one 'salptl' is filthying the area with Taqqiya. At first I thought his reply to my own comment was a joke because it said "LOVE AND RESPECT TO ALL OF YOU, THATS ISLAM." But he has been at the war-path against this video, preaching that Joseph father of Jesus was a pedophile like Mohammed, and insisting how gentle the real hadith really is:
The learning of salptl:
"This video is a joke and a spoof made by an idiot and if people watching cant figure that they really need help. If people want to learn about islam they should learn it through research and talking to scholars about what is true and not true."
That Joseph was a dirty old man:
"....there is nothing in the Gospels of the New Testament to contradict these accounts, and the Gospel stories are not at all inconsistent with these ages for Mary and Joseph. You stick to your roots,(lakum deenukum waliyadeen).Stop coming out with bull [****] about islam, this video is a joke, nothing to do with conversion to islam, Respect islam as i respect all other relgions.Grow up and move on."
"They selected the husband by drawing lots, and Joseph whom they chose was an elderly man, being according to some accounts ninety years old. The husband was selected and Mary was handed over to him, and she played no part in his selection. While the Western Christian churches may not accept these accounts as authentic, the Eastern churches in Europe do accept that Mary was 12 years old and Joseph a widower 90 years old when they married. Moreover......."
In response to a man quoting Hadith and exposing them as violent & intolerant 'salpl' says:
"@gin shahi Muslim was written 200 years after the prophet pbuh past away. As I said Hadith collectors didn't give stringent validity and reliability tests on Hadith that were related to historical matters. They did for practical aspects of islam such as how to pray, bath, marriage, etc"
...and salpl says much else besides this over several pages, upholding the Hadith as rosy-white and a flower-child hippy love affair with world peace or whatever he wants the ignorant to think.
Muslims are creepy little beasts, I have lived around them. So much bottled-up anger against non-Muslims! Because of my playlists ISLAM EXPOSED and PETE WALDO - ISLAM EXPLORED, and the Islamic Apologetics which wound up in my box some months ago, some Islamic Preachment organization may be watching my activities, along with hundreds of other channels which object to their bloodthirsty little religion (superstition). Just a thought.
I have only glanced over the above comments and I just have a few of my own to make. Some of the language that is being used is particularly un-Christian. Using epithets against muslims is not the way to go. Calling them little beasts is not right and is equating the doctrines of Islam with muslims. Bear in mind that many muslims are not orthodox and are just as ignorant of their religion as many non-muslims. We are trying to win hearts and minds and for that reason we must ourselves not resort to the type of tactics that are employed against us.
God bless
Quote from: apollodorus on March 31, 2012, 12:01:47 PMSo much bottled-up anger against non-Muslims!
I try not to use people's YouTube user IDs in this forum without clearing it with them firs.
Regarding the bottled-up anger you sense seems to be it may be rooted in
jealousy for all those around them that live in freedom, with self-determination. I think that's the biggest reason they want to subjugate everyone to Islam - so everyone has to suffer along with them. For example:
"'Christians must accept Islamic rule'
Militant leader in Gaza says missionaries will be 'dealt with harshly,' demands women wear headscarfs.
Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3414753,00.html
And yes, as resisting indicated name-calling tends to harden hearts, rather than to open them. The only hope for our kids future is for those poor folks to ask Jesus for a hand.
I agree with resistingrexmundi wholeheartedly that unkind epithets are undesirable and to be avoided in the future. Please accept my apologies for them. May I request that the user's ID names be altered to fake ones so as to conceal identity. That is something I should have remembered to do. Apologies again.
Please feel free to edit the above post containing said epithets as liberally as is wished. Thank you very much.
Regarding the earlier post (March 28) in which you mentioned the Talmud and how it is used to attack Jews, I want to clarify that my cousins are married to Jews, one is married to a Persian-Jewish Antiquities dealer whose family fled Iran at the downfall of the Shah. My other cousin is married to an old family of English Jews who are very charming. I have NO unfriendly relationship with Jews and have had (compared to some) fairly frequent exposure to them.
When walking down the streets of London I have passed extremely religious Jews, or those Jews who are obviously proudly Jewish and never received a kind of 'hateful energy' from them. My family is bi-racial and my best friend is black. I get good old-fashioned warm-hearted service from a thick-accented Israeli man at my local computer store.
At university a graduate student come at me week after week, month after month with the equivalent of a doctoral dissertation on how Jews ruined the World: Talmud quotes, Conspiracy Theories & impeccable defenses of them, e.g. Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, et al. I had no retort or argument to counter him. But I really didn't care and was not interested in making scapegoats of Jews or hating them.
My point is that I'm not prone to hatred in the way some other personalities may be. The first challenge in my life has come from Islam, first living in a half-Islamic area of London for years with daily but silent hostility; secondly learning about the Global threat to Freedom from militant Islam and the 'jihad-through-high-birth-rate' which Islam expects from its adherants to ensure a 'heaven' in the hereafter.
I have been challenged by Islam and have never been spiteful towards an Islamic person in real life, I abhor treating people badly. But here in the realm of mere words in the nether-region of the internet I really must offer my apologies once again if some spite came through and I failed where I have been so kindly invited (this forum).
Christians in Islamic countries face a serious challenge for their hearts & souls. Blessings to them!
****
Thank you.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 02, 2012, 02:21:07 PM
Regarding the earlier post (March 28) in which you mentioned the Talmud and how it is used to attack Jews, I want to clarify that my cousins are married to Jews, one is married to a Persian-Jewish Antiquities dealer whose family fled Iran at the downfall of the Shah. My other cousin is married to an old family of English Jews who are very charming. I have NO unfriendly relationship with Jews and have had (compared to some) fairly frequent exposure to them.
When walking down the streets of London I have passed extremely religious Jews, or those Jews who are obviously proudly Jewish and never received a kind of 'hateful energy' from them. My family is bi-racial and my best friend is black. I get good old-fashioned warm-hearted service from a thick-accented Israeli man at my local computer store.
At university a graduate student come at me week after week, month after month with the equivalent of a doctoral dissertation on how Jews ruined the World: Talmud quotes, Conspiracy Theories & impeccable defenses of them, e.g. Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, et al. I had no retort or argument to counter him. But I really didn't care and was not interested in making scapegoats of Jews or hating them.
As I investigated the sources of anti-Zionism more and more I was stunned at the number of folks peddling the Elders of Zion and other anti-Semitic propaganda. While Jews accomplishments may be over represented in Hollywood and banking, they are also overrepresented in the fields of science, physics, chemistry, literature, etc. with 20% of Nobel prizes going to Jews even though they only compose 0.2% of the world's population. They are driven to work hard, achieve and succeed.
I increasingly find those who believe themselves to be Christians that have been duped into joining the Muslims, Nazis, skinheads and the KKK. The last three groups holding a heresy called the Serpent Seed. It is the subject of my next video.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3150.0
I had a YouTuber comment on my Zionism video and in my YouTube PM box who introduced me to it who was seduced by this "doctrine of devils".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3134.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.0
Quote from: apollodorus on April 02, 2012, 02:21:07 PMMy point is that I'm not prone to hatred in the way some other personalities may be. The first challenge in my life has come from Islam, first living in a half-Islamic area of London for years with daily but silent hostility; secondly learning about the Global threat to Freedom from militant Islam ......
That's true Islam. The true Muslims consider the peaceful ones that don't have an interest in taking over the world, apostates. They certainly aren't like their prophet under which all of Saudi Arabia was conquered during his life, and the First Islamic Jihad went on to conquer nearly the whole known world up into France and Austria.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 02, 2012, 02:21:07 PM...... and the 'jihad-through-high-birth-rate' which Islam expects from its adherants to ensure a 'heaven' in the hereafter.
I have been challenged by Islam and have never been spiteful towards an Islamic person in real life, I abhor treating people badly. But here in the realm of mere words in the nether-region of the internet I really must offer my apologies once again if some spite came through and I failed where I have been so kindly invited (this forum).
Christians in Islamic countries face a serious challenge for their hearts & souls. Blessings to them!
Evermore around the world, and particularly now with the Muslim Brotherhood taking over the middle east and burning churches and killing our Christian brethren in Egypt.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=51.0
Quote from: apollodorus on April 02, 2012, 02:21:07 PM
****
Thank you.
If you want I can remove the little name calling from your post, but it might help someone in the future understand that it's inappropriate in this forum.
Thank you too, my friend.
"If you want I can remove the little name calling from your post, but it might help someone in the future understand that it's inappropriate in this forum.
Thank you too, my friend."
****
Thank you for your kindness. Please leave the name-calling as it stands if and only if you know it will assist this forum.
Peace.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 02, 2012, 04:51:18 PM
"If you want I can remove the little name calling from your post, but it might help someone in the future understand that it's inappropriate in this forum.
Thank you too, my friend."
****
Thank you for your kindness. Please leave the name-calling as it stands if and only if you know it will assist this forum.
Peace.
Hope the thread looks a bit more recent. I think the forum is working a bit snappier.
Good news! I was finally given access to the uploader at ZippCast and am uploading "History of Mecca" now. Will do a few more today if I don't get knocked off or something like that. Will try "Is Islam a Religion" in two parts next.
http://www.zippcast.com/user/PeteWaldo
[edit add] Looks like they still have problems with server speed. The video keeps "buffering". I'll try a low resolution video for the next one.
I'm very glad to hear you can upload to Zippcast. Are you actually following that list of videos I recommended would most appeal to a secular or non-religious (I really don't know what term to use) audience? Did I end up sending you that list or am I dreaming?
I have opened a new channel on YouTube. Could you please check your inbox of PeteWaldo. I have something to say I don't want to say here.
Allow me to enclose a fabulous new video recently uploaded which I found. The uploader is Science & Languages MA and tears apart Qu'ranic claims to knowledge of Science aka Embryology. But the way he does it is very high quality and he tears down Islamic Apologist Hamza Tzortzis, the hip young Info-Warrior.
Video: Hamza Tzortzis Embryology Koran V2
Uploader: StopSpamming1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etTSrQHwQJY
Thank You.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 11, 2012, 12:58:29 PM
I'm very glad to hear you can upload to Zippcast. Are you actually following that list of videos I recommended would most appeal to a secular or non-religious (I really don't know what term to use) audience? Did I end up sending you that list or am I dreaming?
You did, but I may have misplaced it. I forgot which of my YouTube channels we were chatting on. If you can remember please repeat. Otherwise I'll look at my other 2 channels when I am on my other computer this evening.
Also I tried twice to upload a low resolution version of "Is Islam a Religion?" part 1 but got knocked off of the upload twice.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 11, 2012, 12:58:29 PM
I have opened a new channel on YouTube. Could you please check your inbox of PeteWaldo. I have something to say I don't want to say here.
Are you sure it was on my PeteWaldo channel? I don't see any messages there.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 11, 2012, 12:58:29 PM
Allow me to enclose a fabulous new video recently uploaded which I found. The uploader is Science & Languages MA and tears apart Qu'ranic claims to knowledge of Science aka Embryology. But the way he does it is very high quality and he tears down Islamic Apologist Hamza Tzortzis, the hip young Info-Warrior.
Video: Hamza Tzortzis Embryology Koran V2
Uploader: StopSpamming1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etTSrQHwQJY
Thank You.
I think the guy doing the video maybe guilty of some of the things he accuses.
On the subject of embryology have you seen therationalizers videos, on the fraud perpetrates on the scientists allegedly supporting the Quran, including this embryology subject?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3178.0
Whoops! Just received your YouTube PM now - 1:55 PM.
Scientist tricked into supporting Islam unkowingly in 1980s comes out on the internet in 2012 denouncing the trickery and explaining the correct Science intended:
Video: Prof Tom Armstrong (mirror) Quote mined scientist denounces Quran miracle claims
Uploader: StopSpamming1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GQOxbVbLQ
Peace :)
Apollodorus
Quote from: apollodorus on April 11, 2012, 02:14:40 PM
Scientist tricked into supporting Islam unkowingly in 1980s comes out on the internet in 2012 denouncing the trickery and explaining the correct Science intended:
Video: Prof Tom Armstrong (mirror) Quote mined scientist denounces Quran miracle claims
Uploader: StopSpamming1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6GQOxbVbLQ
Peace :)
Apollodorus
Yea. He mirrored therationalizer who is the one who dug the stuff up and did the interviews. The forum link I gave you interviews 3 different scientists that were had like that in the same Islamic propaganda piece.
Do you find that atheists seem to believe that they can disbelieve something without a basis for their disbelief? That personal disbelief is enough of a reason to declare something to be factually untrue?
Abysmal ignorance like that expressed by this atheist who loves to hear himself yammer on, and wax what he apparently believes is philosophically, that was, however, too much of a coward to have his YouTube ID associated with his own words in this copy and pasted chat in the forum.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2942.msg12106#msg12106
A bit different story for atheists and agnostics that actually set out to disprove the scriptures by actually investigating them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rESOsk6j3Fc
That was quite a heated conversation you had that atheist!
I will inform you briefly here that I made the image change. I do hope our difference of world views did NOT offend you. (I perfectly understand and apologize that the image did. Sorry.) The last thing I would want to do is offend or show disrespect to someone who is levelled against what (practically speaking & potentially always had been) the greatest Evil in the world: Islamism. The discourse or power which has the most potential to change Islamists heart and mind is Christianity.
Please keep in mind Google has become inefficient so while the image change shows up on my side, it may not on yours thank you.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 11, 2012, 05:59:01 PM
I will inform you briefly here that I made the image change. I do hope our difference of world views did NOT offend you. (I perfectly understand and apologize that the image did. Sorry.) The last thing I would want to do is offend or show disrespect to someone who is levelled against what (practically speaking & potentially always had been) the greatest Evil in the world: Islamism. The discourse or power which has the most potential to change Islamists heart and mind is Christianity.
Please keep in mind Google has become inefficient so while the image change shows up on my side, it may not on yours thank you.
I had replied but just before I sent it off my daughter called and I wound up being distracted. I'll send it just as it was composed, now.
I wouldn't dream of you changing things on my behalf. I just thought I would mention it because folks that aren't familiar with the statue and it's story, or with you, might not get the best first impression of you.
I posted one final Personal Message. In it you should see why I changed the image. I wanted to appropriately represent oppenness.
@BrotherPete
Please forgive me if I sent a superfluous post to your box at IslamExplored. I have never uploaded a video before. Also I have a tendency, I'll admit, to worry too much. A bad habit. (Regarding the actual questions, I'll figure everything out ON MY OWN, I DO NOT want to bother you. Sorry.) :-)
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 11:20:27 AM
@BrotherPete
Please forgive me if I sent a superfluous post to your box at IslamExplored. I have never uploaded a video before. Also I have a tendency, I'll admit, to worry too much. A bad habit. (Regarding the actual questions, I'll figure everything out ON MY OWN, I DO NOT want to bother you. Sorry.) :-)
You do worry too much. I'll take a look and see if I can help.
[edit later] I replied to your note.
Often when you have a question about how to operate your control panel in YouTube you can ask it on Yahoo and often the first hit will address it. Use the little blue link "cached" after each search result in the Yahoo search, to save time.
Here's a couple of my favorites. The gal in "How Islam Spreads" has a cute voice too.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.0
Thank you very much. :-)
I have excerpted these lines from a recently uploaded video. The men of Science & Reason which Islamic Propogandists like to claim for themselves were due IN SPITE of Islam NOT BECAUSE OF it!!
If Islam is so SCIENTIFIC and not WASTEFULLY SUPERSTITIOUS why have poor Muslims languished in the dark ignorance for 600 years while the West developed Science?
Many Muslims want and wanted real Science, real Philosophy. Howso did Islam hold them back? Quite a broad question.
Uploader: CuiusRegioEiusReligio
Video: Medieval Skeptics of Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL5eJZNixR0
Quotes From Medieval Skeptics of Islam Video:
The complex ritualistic absurdity of Islam causes exasperation in men of learning:
Al-Ma’arri (c.973-1057) Syrian Philosopher
“Do not suppose the statements of the prophets to be true; they are all fabrications. Men lived comfortably till they came and spoiled life. The sacred books are only such a set of idle tales as any age could have and indeed did actually produce.
They all errâ€"Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Magians: There are two types that make up humanity: Intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intellect.â€
Here is exactly the sentiment Arabic-speaking Christians and Apostates in the West express about Islam today:
Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi (865-925)
“You claim that the evidentiary miracle is present and available, namely, the Qu’ran. You say: “Whoever denies it, let him produce a similar one.â€
Indeed, we shall produce a thousand more similar, from the works of rhetoricians, eloquent speakers and valiant poets, which are more appropriately phrased and state the issues more succinctly. They convey the meaning better and their rhymed prose is in better meter!
…By God what you say astonished us! You are talking about a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. Then you say: ‘Produce something like it?!â€
That’s a great one, isn’t it?
On the sense of an easy and purely natural conspiracy lying behind the origins of the Qu’ran:
Ibn al-Rawandi (c.827-911) Afghani Scholar
“At the time of the performance of a supposed miracle only a small number of people could be close enough to the Prophet to observe his deeds. Reports given such a small number of people cannot be trusted, for such a small group can easily have conspired to lie. The Muslim tradition thus falls into the category of flimsy traditions, those based on a single authority rather than on multiple authorities. These religious traditions are lies endorsed by conspiracies.
Muhammad’s own presuppositions and system show that religious traditions are not trustworthy. The Jews and Christians say that Jesus really died, but the Quran contradicts them. If statements made by so many people cannot be trusted, all the more so the testimony of a handful of people like Muhammad’s followers.â€
(Final note: I left Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi’s “God!†exclamation in there because he is not referring to your God YHWH.)
No shortage of those who recognized Muhammad's lies throughout the last 1400 years, beginning with the poets of Muhammad's day that he had murdered.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1012.0
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 02:03:55 PMThey all errâ€"Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Magians: There are two types that make up humanity: Intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intellect.â€
Though it makes me wonder how much honest investigation such as this fellow, and those with similar opinions, bothered to do in regard to Judaism and Christianity. How about you?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2447.0
Yes I've already seen that information. I really ought to download and save your videos on that topic. More people should know about that.
I am not a follower of Scientism (fallacious worship/pseudo-worship of contemporary Science), unlike the other atheists who visit my other channel.
All these successfully predicted prophecies will be in my files when this domicile is in order. (I am recovering from a life-threatening illness.)
It is better for people of all differing world-views to stay focused on curtailing Islam and helping Muslims...and others.
Al Ma'arri was a little extreme but I found his grumpiness quite endearing & amusing; he almost sounded like an uncle from my mother's side.
----
I hope my non-Abrahamic presence does not bother you. I'd really rather focus on the concerns we share. I mean absolutely no disrespect.
The last thing I will say about my view of those prophecies is:
*They open to the POSSIBILITY of your YHWH, infact they Increase the PROBABILITY of your YHWH.
Now please confirm that I have not offended you. And I ask eagerly amd most respecfully to return to the topic "Islam & Christianity" (and far-off chance of helping Muslims) and not focus excessively on myself. The last thing two everyday people like to discuss is 'religion' and 'politics'. Dwelling too much on those things can shut one soul off from the other.
I really prefer 'objective' (is anything truly objective though...but that's off-topic...), critical, rational discussion of things and research in interest of furthering knowlege.
We can have, say, a Neoplatonist, a Jewish and a Christian organization in the great city of Alexandria and we did...until the Catholic Islamist Church got intolerant and started killing people.
(By the way, I'm not Neoplatonist, I'm not Platonist, I merely walk the streets in my chlamys.)
Please let me know I have not offended you. Thank you. :-)
Had a little trouble sleeping so I got up, did some tax work, and thought I might pop in for a minute.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 04:46:42 PM
Yes I've already seen that information. I really ought to download and save your videos on that topic. More people should know about that.
I am not a follower of Scientism (fallacious worship/pseudo-worship of contemporary Science), unlike the other atheists who visit my other channel.
All these successfully predicted prophecies will be in my files when this domicile is in order. (I am recovering from a life-threatening illness.)
It is better for people of all differing world-views to stay focused on curtailing Islam and helping Muslims...and others.
The only reason I mentioned it more than once is I don't think you responded to it before.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 04:46:42 PMAl Ma'arri was a little extreme but I found his grumpiness quite endearing & amusing; he almost sounded like an uncle from my mother's side.
----
I hope my non-Abrahamic presence does not bother you. I'd really rather focus on the concerns we share. I mean absolutely no disrespect.
None taken. Not offended at all.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 05:21:40 PM
The last thing I will say about my view of those prophecies is:
*They open to the POSSIBILITY of your YHWH, infact they Increase the PROBABILITY of your YHWH.
It isn't just the prophecies but also the archaeological evidence that ever increasingly demonstrates the scriptures to be a reliable record of ancient history. Let alone that whole temple mount and temple would seem an awful lot for those guys to go through without a reason.
And the strange coincidence that 1/4 to 1/3 of mankind follow the scriptures and are called to love our fellow man, while another 1/4 of mankind are compelled to DISbelieve the scriptures, DENY the whole subject of the Gospel and REJECT the blood of Jesus' sacrifice. The same 1/4 of mankind that is responsible for over 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world just since 9-11. Pretty big coincidence!
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 05:21:40 PM
Now please confirm that I have not offended you.
Not in the least, my friend. Rest assured, I will definitely let you know if and when you do.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 05:21:40 PMAnd I ask eagerly amd most respecfully to return to the topic "Islam & Christianity" ......
Like the strange coincidence I just mentioned.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 05:21:40 PM...... (and far-off chance of helping Muslims) ......
Maybe not so far off. 6 million Muslims come to Christ every year in Africa alone.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 15, 2012, 05:21:40 PM...... and not focus excessively on myself. The last thing two everyday people like to discuss is 'religion' and 'politics'. Dwelling too much on those things can shut one soul off from the other.
I really prefer 'objective' (is anything truly objective though...but that's off-topic...), critical, rational discussion of things and research in interest of furthering knowlege.
We can have, say, a Neoplatonist, a Jewish and a Christian organization in the great city of Alexandria and we did...until the Catholic Islamist Church got intolerant and started killing people.
(By the way, I'm not Neoplatonist, I'm not Platonist, I merely walk the streets in my chlamys.)
Please let me know I have not offended you. Thank you. :-)
Certainly not.
Thank you very much, I'm glad this "pagan" Alexandrian did not cause any confusion (lol).
I have posted in the Qur'an section of General Category.
WHERE SHOULD I POSE MY 'READINGS: BIBLE EXCERPTS & BOOKS' QUESTION?
Thank you very much.
Quote from: apollodorus on April 18, 2012, 09:37:04 AM
WHERE SHOULD I POSE MY 'READINGS: BIBLE EXCERPTS & BOOKS' QUESTION?
Thank you very much.
Sorry for the delay. I've been in the world today.
Since you are asking the questions from the point of view of a "non-believer" (though you seem to be somewhat less so, then when we first met) maybe it would be of most benefit to atheists or agnostics that may visit one of those sections? What do you think? Otherwise in the Christian apologetics section might be best. But I can always move it around easily.
Why don't you open a thread with a copy and paste of the post you sent me in YouTube, and I will copy and paste the replies that I responded with, to get the thread going. The links you asked me to send will all become clickable automatically.
Alright, thank you.
Just to clarify my position which I'm not surprised your misunderstanding:
I am an atheist, but not a materialist atheist which is what most people are used to meeting.
I believe we must be guarded in our assessment of things and maintain our rationality; ultimately because knowledge is incomplete. Because knowledge is incomplete faith of some nature is inescapable.
I'm not afraid of the unexplained like the materialists are (Scientism fallacy).
I can speak of God, Gods, Angels, demons and the like freely because I feel them.
I don't know where to place things ontologically, the truth of the relation between 'thought and thing', the 'objective and subjective' worlds. I just cannot trash an open mind like Science-worshippers can. They're cutting possiblities for FUTURE Science. For all we know (as in Star Trek) there are disembodied, Q-like entities! We are so ignorant!
Why don't I post my Personal Message from YouTube here and then you can open a thread. I can't figure how to open one.
I spent some time looking around the forum for an appropriate place that looked something like an apologetics section and couldn't find it.
Sorry, I've never been online in a forum before so I have no idea how open a threat, despite looking around a bit.
Maybe bad luck and I missed something? Sorry.
Brother Pete,
I'm sorry I have to ask you this, but I'm having such TERRIBLE luck getting my question answered with Searches and site explorations; and trying to pose it at Catholic Answers site. No response from any "helpful apologiest" for 72 hours!
If you know a person or site i could visit then PLEASE by all means, direct me there so I will not take up your time.
I've read half of an INTRODUCTION TO CHRISTIANITY book, now I need to read the Bible to Understand Christian (general) Doctrine. And I want to give the Hebrew Scriptures sufficient attention unlike I know some others do.
I would appreciate a list of the most essential books & parts-of-books to read in order to understand Christianity IN GENERAL and (Christian Perspective) the Judaism it came from.
I'm just a regular non-Christian person: I do not have time for the full Bible. Later this year I won't have time to give studies the attention I'd like, unlike now.
I'm aware that if I read one full Gospel, it should be Matthew.
I'm also aware:
Law of Moses: DEUT. 5: 6-21
Sermon on the Mount MATT. 5-7
Ezekiel 11:19-21 (The New Israel 40-48)
Paul 1 Corinthians 15 (Resurrection)
...and so on and so on.
I need a completion of that list from one who knows.
If the answer to this question will help potential Muslim converts, I'll lift and re-word my question for the Forum, put it in the part that you deem best, then you can answer there.
You are so deep into your Christianity you do not realize what a post-graduate, Abraham-ignorant audience Muslim or not might really want or need to read.
I tried answering this question 10 years ago in University but I could never uphold the Christian Classes and had to keep dropping them. At least I kept a couple books!
The next thing I want to do after this is look at Islam. I can't read the Koran right now every time I try I get tired. I need to understand Christianity first.
My next Christian Query after this is understanding and memorizing those fulfilled prophecies you mentioned and taking them to an Atheist Forum I joined to see if they can adequately (important qualifier) explain it away.
I don't worship present Science but they do.
If you know a good site for this (I've had such little success) I'd welcome going there instead of bothering you.
Thank you very much!
Peace,
Artemidorus
PS: Muslim teenagers in the West tucked infront of their laptops could take your "Bible Guide" and use it to read free online Bibles, so I don't think the answer would be out-of-place on your forum. Nonetheless you know your Forum, I don't so please don't take that the wrong way. :-)
*PLEASE LEAVE A NOTE HERE SAYING WHERE YOU HAVE MOVED THE ABOVE. MANY THANKS!* :-)
[[[[I'm sorry I have to ask you this, but I'm having such TERRIBLE luck getting my question answered with Searches and site explorations; and trying to pose it at Catholic Answers site.]]]]
Often those that actually read the bible find so much contradiction to their "traditions" they leave Roman Catholicism. That's what the reformation was all about. Finally, because of the printing press, folks had access to the scriptures themselves, rather than Roman Catholic doctrine being fed to them.
That's how the Crusades went so wrong. ALL of the guys who went out to fight were completely ignorant to scripture as the only scripture they ever heard recited was in Latin - a language they didn't know. Then then a bunch of men with no authority to do so, promised the warriors absolution for life if they went on the crusades. So how are men supposed to act if they believe that men can assign them absolution from God for life, except to engage in rape, pillage and plunder!
I don't mind helping out because it often raises questions that I then realize I should cover in my websites and videos. However this would be a lot better if you raised these questions in the forum as there are more hands to help. I understand if you are shy though.
[[[[No response from any "helpful apologiest" for 72 hours!
If you know a person or site i could visit then PLEASE by all means, direct me there so I will not take up your time.
I've read half of an INTRODUCTION TO CHRISTIANITY book, now I need to read the Bible to Understand Christian (general) Doctrine. And I want to give the Hebrew Scriptures sufficient attention unlike I know some others do.]]]]
The Koine Greek term translated as "testament" is also translated as "covenant". The Jews could not keep the law of the old covenant. Even today it is impossible for them to keep something like 1/3 of the law, without a temple in Jerusalem that was torn down in 70AD - every stone - just as Jesus had prophesied. Lighting one path to God in this new covenant era (though God Himself blinded some Jews to the Gospel, perhaps so they wouldn't be guilty of sinning against it).
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm#matt_24_1
Because God's people couldn't keep the law even back when they had a temple the Lord inspired the old testament prophet Jeremiah to prophesy of a new covenant.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Sent with "The Old Covenant"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0VnWjnoZDM
Rather than the continuous blood sacrifice on the alter in the temple (of Solomon (burned and later rebuilt under Herod)) for remission of sin under the old covenant....
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm
.... Jesus ushered in the new covenant through His ONE sacrifice and atoning blood for remission of sin through His crucifixion, death and resurrection.
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Jesus' people ARE the temple of God in this new covenant era.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm
(remember you can go straight to a text version in the forum by clicking on the first link below all my videos)
Sent with "THE TEMPLE OF GOD"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU
[[[[ I would appreciate a list of the most essential books & parts-of-books to read in order to understand Christianity IN GENERAL and (Christian Perspective) the Judaism it came from.
I'm just a regular non-Christian person: I do not have time for the full Bible. Later this year I won't have time to give studies the attention I'd like, unlike now.
I'm aware that if I read one full Gospel, it should be Matthew.]]]]
I would recommend the Gospel of John rather than Matthew, and others recommend Mark. Indeed a single tract of Mark translated into a South American tribes tongue brought the whole village to the Lord.
I did a little bolding in this KJV Gospel of John for Muslims:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/first_epistle_john.htm
[[[[I'm also aware:
Law of Moses: DEUT. 5: 6-21
Sermon on the Mount MATT. 5-7]]]]
Also the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) is a very widely cited and important (and perhaps contentious because of doctrine) passage. I had to exegete it on my own in efforts to understand it in the traditional continuous-historic context.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm
[[[[[Ezekiel 11:19-21 (The New Israel 40-48)
Paul 1 Corinthians 15 (Resurrection)]]]]
I excerpted the heart of this event in this forum thread. You only need to read the first post.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0
[[[[[...and so on and so on.
I need a completion of that list from one who knows.
If the answer to this question will help potential Muslim converts, .......]]]]
I think it is important for them to understand they are isolated from God's people because they follow the false prophet Muhammad. And with Muhammad changing their "holy" day from Saturday (the Sabbath) to Friday it's ridiculous for them to believe Muhammad's cult has anything to do with the old covenant law - which is what they like to claim. Where does the old covenant tell folks to prostrate to a black stone idol in Mecca 5 times a day? The whole notion is not only ridiculous, but is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what is revealed in the old and new Testaments which condemn all forms idolatry. (including Roman Catholic statues and Orthodox icons)
[[[[....... I'll lift and re-word my question for the Forum, put it in the part that you deem best, then you can answer there.]]]]
Best place to do so and then more folks can address your questions.
[[[[You are so deep into your Christianity you do not realize what a post-graduate, Abraham-ignorant audience Muslim or not might really want or need to read.]]]]
I think that the sheer volume (hundreds) of verses that proclaim Jesus the Son of God and God His Father should be (but it isn't) enough to isolate them. They are all bible ignorant so I think these facts must come as complete surprises. I removed the hundreds of verses from context and listed the germane verses in video and forum and websites.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=611.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=610.0
[[[[I tried answering this question 10 years ago in University but I could never uphold the Christian Classes and had to keep dropping them. At least I kept a couple books!
The next thing I want to do after this is look at Islam.]]]]
A single verse from the Quran should help anyone understand that Satan's prophet Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel and the new covenant - the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah who saves all from sin who have faith in His shed blood.
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Islam is an ANTI-RELIGION. Muhammad filled his followers with complete resolve as to what to DISbelieve, to DENY and to REJECT. How many religions do that? This is how it's easy to see (besides prostrating to a pagan black stone idol in Mecca 5 times a day!) that Islam is nothing more than an antichrist cult that follows a false prophet that spoke for Satan.
So not surprisingly, the most egregious, and ONLY UNPARDONABLE SIN according to Muhammad, is committed if a Muslim confesses that Jesus is the Son of God.
1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 INDEED YE HAVE PUT FORTH A THING MOST MONSTROUS!
Perhaps the most important and widely quoted verse from the Gospel of the Messiah, Yeshua (whose Hebrew name means YHWH saves)
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Surah 9.29 FIGHT THOSE who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (EVEN if they are) of THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 THE JEWS CALL 'UZAIR A SON OF ALLAH, AND THE CHRISTIANS CALL CHRIST THE SON OF ALLAH. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. ALLAH'S CURSE BE ON THEM: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
1John 5:10 He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.
[[[[[I can't read the Koran right now every time I try I get tired. I need to understand Christianity first.
My next Christian Query after this is understanding and memorizing those fulfilled prophecies you mentioned and taking them to an Atheist Forum I joined to see if they can adequately (important qualifier) explain it away.]]]]
You will always find arguments against the scriptures. Even those that try to argue against the archaeological evidence. Even from those unsaved (academic liberals) that believe themselves to be in the "church" but view scripture as nothing more than a collection of stories and fables. Like the story of King David's palace has always been considered fiction by such unregenerate types yet it was very recently discovered.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2964.0
Archaeology continually reinforces the scriptures as a reliable record of ancient history.
[[[[ I don't worship present Science but they do.]]]]
Indeed they do.
[[[[ If you know a good site for this (I've had such little success) I'd welcome going there instead of bothering you.
Thank you very much!
Peace,
Artemidorus
PS: Muslim teenagers in the West tucked infront of their laptops could take your "Bible Guide" and use it to read free online Bibles, so I don't think the answer would be out-of-place on your forum.]]]]]
We can copy and paste this whole chat into the forum, and develop it in there. Then the hours spent will perhaps be of benefit to others. Would that be OK?
[[[[Nonetheless you know your Forum, I don't so please don't take that the wrong way. :-)]]]]
There are no topics related to Christianity and Judaism that are out of place. We just don't like folks copy and pasting a bunch of other people's words, that they are unable to defend, themselves.
Agnostics and atheists - besides all the evidence - have to ask themselves what the odds are of it being AN ACCIDENT, that 1/4 of mankind associate themselves with Christianity, while another imperialistic, murderous, 1/4 of mankind, associate themselves with the antichrist cult of THE false prophet Muhammad. (but even liberals in the "church" can't see this and even invite imams into their institutions to "build bridges" (to hell!)). HOW CAN THERE BE RECONCILING OF EXACT OPPOSITES?
Sent with "Quran proclaims the EXACT OPPOSITE of Gospel"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCE_sti-uZc
Thank you very much.
So far here is our list:
LAW OF MOSES DEUT. 5:6-21
EZEKIEL 11:19-21 (NEW HEART)
EZEKIEL 40-48 (THE NEW ISRAEL)
SERMON ON THE MOUNT MATT. 5-7
MATT. 24 (OLIVET DISCOURSE)
PAUL 1 CORINTHIANS 15 (RESURRECTION)
Please provide more reading excerpts from the Hebrew Scriptures to help us understand the shape and direction of Christianity IN GENERAL. I pose this question from a standpoint of (exaggerated) secular ignorance, an ignorance shared by many Muslims too, so please do not forget to include excessively obvious ones like "Genesis---which books!?!?!", the tasty and essential parts of Exodus, so on and so forth.
I am looking for substantial but NOT overly long reading, not little lines and passages that are meant to prove conclusions irrefutably. We are seeking Knowledge. Thank you very much, all of us out here appreciate it a great deal. :-)
Essential Bible Readings should be a section all its own I think, but you know what is best I don't. Peace. :-)
Quote from: apollodorus on April 18, 2012, 08:30:58 PM
Essential Bible Readings should be a section all its own I think, but you know what is best Idon't. Peace. :-)
When I considered which category to place it in I did notice that while we do have a section for the Quran and Hadith we don't have a separate section for the bible. We have so many categories I hate to add more but I may should add that one. Actually every category is essentially a bible category since all topics include so much scripture.
SERMON ON THE MOUNT MATT. 5-7
MATT. 24 (OLIVET DISCOURSE)
PAUL 1 CORINTHIANS 15 (RESURRECTION)
...alright thank you much. :-)
Now what about more of Paul, what are the essential parts of the essential letters please?
I'm aware there are some other bits of Corinthians, then Romans (which parts?), plus there's something in Hebrews that's essential.
That's all I remember from my class years ago, there is probably one or two other things from his other letters too. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Quote from: apollodorus on April 19, 2012, 10:04:25 AMNow what about more of Paul, what are the essential parts of the essential letters please?
I'm aware there are some other bits of Corinthians, then Romans (which parts?), plus there's something in Hebrews that's essential.
For a lot of folks in here Paul helps us understand the disposition of God's chosen people in this Christian era.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1582.0
A quick Yahoo turned up some apologetics regarding Paul here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/first/missions.html
Alright thank you. Here is our list so far:
LAW OF MOSES DEUT. 5:6-21
EZEKIEL 11:19-21 (NEW HEART)
EZEKIEL 40-48 (THE NEW ISRAEL)
HOSEA 2
PSALM 105
SERMON ON THE MOUNT MATT. 5-7
MATT. 24 (OLIVET DISCOURSE)
PAUL 1 CORINTHIANS 15 (RESURRECTION)
PAUL 2 CORINTHIANS
ROMANS 11-16
HEBREWS 9
*Next: Father-Son-Holy Spirit. How about the Trinitarian Nature of your YHWH as revealed in the New Testament? There are some selections from ACTS I'm sure. And more beyond Acts please... :-)
Quote from: apollodorus on April 19, 2012, 12:00:29 PM*Next: Father-Son-Holy Spirit. How about the Trinitarian Nature of your YHWH as revealed in the New Testament? There are some selections from ACTS I'm sure. And more beyond Acts please... :-)
The "trinity" is revealed through hundreds of verses in the Gospel, that regard God the Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit as per the following thread on the subject and links that it includes.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1345.0
The 2 videos I finally succeeded in uploading at ZippCast have been removed from my channel.
http://www.zippcast.com/user/PeteWaldo
Kinda figured it might go that way being based in England and with England increasingly in the grip of Islam.
And it looks to me like YouTube died too. I get virtually no increases in number views on videos, and all but 1 or 2 "contact" invites have been from those with commercial ambitions.
There seems to be much about the New Testament you don't know in terms of its development.
You probably don't even know that there is not a single epistle where the writer called Paul mentions his name of Saul or that he studied under Rabban Gamliel in Jerusalem when Jesus would have been an active preacher, making not the slightest reference to knowing about him despite both men being the same age.
You probably don't know how various manuscripts indicate changes in verses in GMark and other gospels. Or that the first text to discuss the doctrine of the trinity is Tertullian.
Or that the author of the epistles contradicts himself, so clearly as in Galatians itself when he first says that Christ revealed himself to him but then says that God did it after he was separated from the womb despite the fact of other apostles who existed before him and who never had the revelation from the Christ.
Reacting in just the same fashion as Muslims do when they refuse to engage in exchange, after having been warned they are going to be given a time-out for it, Dave offered yet another non-response on the subject thread (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3238.msg13778#msg13778) and then dashed over here to post within 4 minutes, on a thread unrelated to any we have had discussions on to date, to post what he must have thought was a message of some import. The very same MO as Muslims.
Quote from: Dave2 on May 14, 2012, 05:17:30 PM
There seems to be much about the New Testament you don't know in terms of its development.
You probably don't even know that there is not a single epistle where the writer called Paul mentions his name of Saul or that he studied under Rabban Gamliel in Jerusalem when Jesus would have been an active preacher, making not the slightest reference to knowing about him despite both men being the same age.
You probably don't know how various manuscripts indicate changes in verses in GMark and other gospels. Or that the first text to discuss the doctrine of the trinity is Tertullian.
Or that the author of the epistles contradicts himself, so clearly as in Galatians itself when he first says that Christ revealed himself to him but then says that God did it after he was separated from the womb despite the fact of other apostles who existed before him and who never had the revelation from the Christ.
So Dave, why this thread? You trying to persuade our atheist friend to join your tiny anti-Zionist Jew hating cult, so that he too can run with Nazis, skinheads, Muslims and the KKK like you?
You think apollodorus would witness your insistence on maintaining self-imposed blindness to a mathematical miracle (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3194.msg13504#msg13504), but then believe you could have something of value to share with him?
Apollodorus, it's important to understand that for a Jew to recognize Jesus as his Messiah, things go almost as tragically for him as they do for Muslims, that come to Christ. In the Jew's case his family and friends may throw a funeral for him, even though he is perfectly healthy, because he is the same as dead to them! Basically disowned by friends and family not unlike those in Jehovah's Witness and other cults. Thus all of his study must begin with the ironclad premise that Jesus is not our Messiah and work backwards from there in efforts to reinforce his denial. Yet surely even Dave must wonder why God only allowed what he freely admits is his tiny little sliver, of the miniscule 2/10 of 1% of the total world population of Jews, the sole franchise on God's truth. This even as the traditions of men he admits to following, who he puts in authority over him, have him in league with some of the most black-hearted, reprobate, racist, anti-Zionist anti-Semitic bigots on the planet. Yet all he offered was this feeble and utterly failed defense (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3194.msg13603#msg13603) of why he finds himself in such company. Just as Jesus declared of his ilk almost 2,000 years ago:
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
A person only needs to consider the logic in the second group verses, to understand the conspicuous truth, and recall common secular wisdom such as "birds of a feather flock together". As bad as all that is, Dave even seems to hate God, for having followed through with exactly what He promised He would do (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3218.0).
Dave, apparently you didn't know that the reason apollodorus is here is precisely because he has seen the hearts of the people that come against Jerusalem and wouldn't be caught dead on their side. He has lived in a Muslim neighborhood in England and well understands what has happened to the humanity of the followers of Muhammad that you support, directly against the freedom that the
Israeli Arabs enjoy, the vast majority of whom are in favor of the Israeli democracy and constitution. Those Israeli Arab residents, that have enjoyed peaceful and mutually beneficial relations with Israeli Jews, for the last two hundred years. http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3275.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2795.0
"In contrast, a poll of 507 Arab-Israelis conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 found that
75 percent profess support for Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state which guarantees equal rights for minorities.
Israeli Arab support for a constitution in general was 88 percent.[31]"
Thus
YOU SIDE WITH MUHAMMAD'S CULT ALONE Dave, in Islamic conquest of Israel, toward the institution of Islamic sharia law, to turn Israel into just another female circumcising, child doing, multiple wife and concubine beating, Christian beheading, Islamist terrorist slave state.
Do we have to wonder how Dave would feel if his wife was forced to conform to an Islamic dress code anytime she was in public? This is the ultimate expression, since whichever Islamic sect that is the most willing to cut the heads off of whatever other sect that they judge "apostate", are who will be the ultimate rulers of Muhammad's cult.
(http://www.blogwrath.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/prepared_for_the_real_holocaust_1-vi-233x300.jpg)
"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3272.0) if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings,..."
"The militant leader said Christians in Gaza who engage in "missionary activity" will be "dealt with harshly."
"I expect our Christian neighbors to understand the new Hamas rule means real changes. They must be ready for Islamic rule if they want to live in peace in Gaza,"
"Also the activities of Internet cafes, pool halls and bars must be stopped," he said. "If it goes on, we'll attack these things very harshly."
Dave, I believe apollodorus is also a champion of Israeli Jews and Arabs right to freedom and self-determination, as well as to religious and all other liberties they currently enjoy, and for their right to be left alone to continue their personal pursuits of happiness. I presume that he would agree that if a enemy interferes with that freedom, then he would champion their right to defend themselves and communities from the aggressors, to restore the peace. Exactly the opposite of you and your ilk that work to advance the Islamic conquest and subjugation of Israeli Jews, Christians and Arabs, that all just want to be left alone to live in peace.
While apollodorus is a self-described atheist he also knows enough about the Christian's God of the Gospel to know He is about love and not hate. Ah but then so is the God of faithful Jews, like the faithful Jews that happen to live in Israel, and champion its democracy that allows them the freedom to continue to worship in peace.
In other words our English friend understands from what he sees around him, that if he did believe in God, the last thing he would want to be caught dead doing, is supporting the side of those that advance the Islamic conquest of God's people.
Yet somehow you seem to believe that a bunch of antichrist blather that springs from your personal efforts to
DISbelieve, will somehow be persuasive when compared to that of folks who study these subjects.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2572.0
That somehow all that fulfilled prophecy that apollodorus has had a glimpse of, that is even proclaimed as fulfilled throughout the Gospel - by the Gospel itself - would somehow be nullified by your personal indoctrination into blindness. Anyone can make excuses for themselves to disbelieve anything Dave.
Because of your failure to respond in the other thread you have 5 days off to compose answers.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3238.msg13778#msg13778
When you return you will be limited to that thread until we exhaust it and then we can move forward with the list of unanswered posts as per the instructions there.
I would like to comment about this perception of hatred by the member.
Please bear with me as I give some personal history first, I think it is relevant.
I was brought up to be involved with the supernatural from a small child, my own mother got me involved with Satanists who "groomed" me in Tarot, Palmistry, spell casting etc. I also saw spirits.
This is just to let you know, I have been involved in supernatural events for a long time. I didn't become a Christian until 1985 aged 30. After I got saved and had been a few years a Christian, I received a gift (please try and accept I didn't go crazy! ??? ) it was a gift of discerning spirits. It was pretty weird, I started experiencing days when I would be just walking from A to B and I would see some people, adults, even little kids, would either turn around, or just turn their heads and stare at me with a look of cold hatred. It was pretty unnerving at first.
I eventually realised that I got a sort of intuition and could pick up on people that had spiritual problems or were afflicted by the supernatural; this came in most useful when I joined a ministry team helping people from occult or cultic backgrounds.
The relevance of this is that with the rise in the number of Muslims in Glasgow, then in Leeds, I noticed it more and more with them.
It may just be an enhancement of picking up body language, but I am convinced it is more than that.
The member, who saw this hatred, may not be a Christian, but that does not preclude him having an extra sense, or supernatural gift of discernment.
I wonder if others that he knew at the time, experienced this emanation of hatred as much as he did, or was he perhaps a great deal more sensitive to picking up these vibes.
Don't forget, the supernatural is real, not Just Christians are exposed to it or are sensitive to it. I had supernatural insights and could tell fortunes etc. years before I renounced all that and was born again.
I saw a film once with Denzil Washington, where he is a cop hunting down a spirit that moved from an executed murderer to person to person - the sort of looks he (the cop) received from ordinary passers by is very similar to the incidents that happen to me - the look can be there and fiercely evil - only to disappear the next moment as if it had never happened.
Please don't send for the men in white coats! I promise to come quietly! :o
In reply to Craig -
there is some light at the end of the tunnel, David Cameron is bringing in a law, that any immigrant living here, must be in full time employment and earning a minimum of £18,500 in order to support a home and family - if they don't? no entry to families or relatives.
I can see this being slated by those who believe the state owes the a living and will consider this to be "racial discrimination" bu I think it is a damn good idea.