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General Category => Islam - General => Topic started by: Peter on July 18, 2009, 09:12:30 AM

Title: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on July 18, 2009, 09:12:30 AM
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm

Tabari I:280 "Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of the world menstruate and are stupid."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1130.msg9627#msg9627

"A woman's paradise is under her husband's foot." (video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g4cMjpiBpA&videos=pj_rlfBnpOY))

Honor your wife with a good old fashioned beating!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChnpaMK1oLQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASlin_9Bekw

"'your wives are as tilth (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_and_women.htm#56) (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.' (Sura 2:223).
To say that wives must be passive partners is an understatement." - from "Islam Reviewed (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_and_women.htm)"

Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not...

"...Neither shall he regard ..... the desire of women......" Some don't find Mohammed a fit for this ruler  "type (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#first_year_of_belshazzar)", because "...he shall magnify himself above all...", confusing what Mohammed claimed, with the reality of what Mohammed accomplished. He indeed magnified himself above all because Muslims must necessarily reject the 1600 year record that God delivered through ALL of His prophets and witnesses, that His people have followed for 3500 years, to follow Mohammed's stand-alone, 23 year, 7th century "religion". They follow Mohammed and for no other reason than because Mohammed told his largely illiterate followers to follow him.

"The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men." - Sir Winston Churchill (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/index.htm#winston_churchill)

Mohammed and his men sexually enslaved women taken as spoils of war ("booty") with Allah's blessing. Mohammed was even given a special "revelation" allowing him all the wives and concubines he wanted - but only for him.  The believers at large are still allowed four wives plus concubines. But then all it takes for a man to divorce under sharia law is for him to say "I divorce you (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geutoJdtxKNswALR1XNyoA?p=sharia+%22I+divorce+you%22+three+times&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-102&sao=1)" three times. In Saudi Arabia and Malaysia, a husband can divorce by text message (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu9Qy3N1KVrcATURXNyoA?p=saudi+arabia+malaysia+text+message+divorce&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-102&sao=1).

Here's Mohammed's god's answer to a woman with the classic "headache"...

Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Number 3368: Abu Huraira (Allah he pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may, peace be upon him) as saying: When a man invites his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he (the husband) spends the night being angry with her, the angels curse her until morning.

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess; - in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. (Sura 33:50-51 (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usc.edu%2Fdept%2FMSA%2Fquran%2F033.qmt.html&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8)) - Yusuf Ali translation from M. Ali - Islam Reviewed (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/moral_life_of_prophet_mohammed.htm#wives) (free book at the link)

Including still-married women:

Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:...

(Sahih Muslim) Book 8:3431: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 522: Narrated Anas bin Malik:
We arrived at Khaibar, and when Allah helped His Apostle to open the fort, the beauty of Safiya bint Huyai bin Akhtaq whose husband had been killed while she was a bride, was mentioned to Allah's Apostle. The Prophet selected her for himself.....
24: ...The Muslims said amongst themselves, "Will she (i.e. Safiya) be one of the mothers of the believers, (i.e. one of the wives of the Prophet ) or just (a lady captive) of what his right-hand possesses" Some of them said, "If the Prophet makes her observe the veil, then she will be one of the mothers of the believers (i.e. one of the Prophet's wives), and if he does not make her observe the veil, then she will be his lady slave.".....

It should be painfully obvious, at least to a sane and rational person, that the only way that the capture and sexual assault of women as spoils of war, could be described as something other than rape, is if the woman or girl whose husband or whole family had been slaughtered by Mohammed and his men, would then be pleased to have sexual intercourse with her murderous captor.

Sura 23.1 The believers must (eventually) win through,- 2 Those ....
5 Who abstain from sex, 6 Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,

In other words, those who fornicate with captured sex slaves, are free from blame in Allah's view.

Sura 24:33:...But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),

So when they don't desire chastity, pimp them out and make a gain. Perhaps because she wants to share in the cash or maybe get some distance from her filthy captor for a little while.
But then even if you compel them, Allah is forgiving!
Pretty convenient god for an army of imperialistic (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#daniel_1335_days), conquering, murdering thieves (http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm#booty).

[edit add 6-15-11] Muhammad married a 6 year old child, and when he was 53 years old he had sex with her when she was just a 9 year old child. Thus his followers believe themselves licensed to do the same unto today.
Please see the Aisha thread for more on Muhammad's child bride.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=769.0

[edit add this headline and two photos on 9-26-14] Following is a picture of:  ".....an eight year old child bride died in Yemen on her wedding night after suffering internal injuries due to sexual trauma." (by her 40-year-old husband) (link to article (http://www.redpepper.co.ug/8-year-old-yemeni-child-dies-at-hands-of-40-year-old-husband-on-wedding-night/))

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/2eaf4480.jpg)

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/2ece0a80.jpg)

Since Muhammad was into inbreeding, his followers have no choice but to condone marrying first cousins today.

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God, has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts..."

Please see the thread on the devastating health consequences among Muslims, as reported by their own governments, on that thread. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.0 [end edit add 6-15-11]

"Eyewitness accounts (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/may/21.26.html) detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

But what about countries that are 100% Muslim where everyone is ruled under the perfection of Islamic sharia law? (and increasingly elsewhere (video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fbXvq_ZIbw))) In Saudia Arabia 15 girls were killed (http://www.islamfortoday.com/saudi01.htm) because Islamic religious police sent them back into a burning school for trying to emerge from the burning building without head coverings.
"The English-language Saudi Gazette, in a front-page report yesterday quoted witnesses as saying that members of the religious police stopped men who tried to help the girls escape from the building, saying: 'It is sinful to approach them.'"
"A civil defence officer told an Arabic-language newspaper, al-Eqtisadiah, that he saw three members of the religious police "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya"."

Video: The Violent Oppression of Women (http://www.terrorismawareness.org/videos/108/the-violent-oppression-of-women-in-islam/) in Islam
YouTube Video search: islam honor killing (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islam+honor+killing&search=Search) - islam honour killing (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islam+honour+killing&search_type=&aq=f).

If a Muslim woman has the misfortune of being raped, she is beaten for it if she is lucky, or killed by her family if a relative decides to rescue his or his family's "honor (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=honor+killing+islam&search_type=&aq=f)". In these killings, the more heinous the method of killing, the greater the rescue of "honor (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=honor+killing+islam&fr=yfp-t-102&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8)". If you are an "infidel", or a Muslim for that matter, that is considering marriage to an Islamic man, read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somalian - raised Muslim.
YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0) of an Islamic offical on the subject of rape.

Mohammed's wives (http://www.muslimhope.com/WhyDidMohammedGetSoManyWives.htm)

Explore websites and material that discuss women's roles and rights in Islam like "The Position of Women in Islam (http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405efc.htm)" by Hamdun Dagher

There are lots of videos, in Muslims own words, available at MEMRI TV (http://www.memritv.org/). Select one of the "Featured Subjects", such as "Women's Rights (http://memritv.org/subject/en/79.htm)" or "Indoctrination of Children (http://memritv.org/subject/en/178.htm)".

Sura 2:282 "...if the two be not men (http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et5.htm), then one man and two women, such witnesses as you approve of, that if one of the two women errs the other will remind her..."

In this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0) we find it takes the testimony of 4 women to bring an allegation of rape against a man.

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Men are promised loads of virgins and rivers of wine in heaven (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/aljana_the_islamic_view_of_heaven.htm).  And the promise for women?  Mohammed said there is a higher percentage of women in hell because they are not allowed to pray when menstruating, and because of their deficiency in intelligence.

Sura 24.6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;

Good luck with that ladies!

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 28:  Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
  The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you."

Here are a lot of free books (http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/news.htm) regarding Islam.

M. Ali on the status of women in Islam (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_and_women.htm). 

Video of a Saudi woman (http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1465wmv&ak=null):  "Saudi society is based on Masters and slaves....To be more precise masters and maids... masters are the men and slaves are the women.... The ownership of a woman is passed from one man to another.... from the father or the brother, to another man, the husband."

"Two million Muslim women beaten ..... in France!  So what goes on in the Arab world?  Total isolation." (video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM&NR=1))

Sura (4:34) - Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/27168100.jpg)

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her.  Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing.  Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Wife beating in Islam (http://answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm)

Does Islam liberate women? (video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2EFCYc2JhY&mode=related&search=))
Wife Beating in Islam - No more than 10 blows! (video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh7qi03Ygnk&NR=1)) 

I have yet to witness a single discussion among Muslim men regarding the psychological devistation suffered by their women that are beaten. The only discussion revolves around how hard to hit them.

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/2829a1f0.jpg)

Sura 2:228 Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

Perhaps we see the exercise of that "degree (of advantage)" in the photo above, besides men only needing to say "I divorce you" three times to have it done and moving immediately on to the next.

Muslim "Honor" Killings (video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_3VvZkwujI&NR=1)
Anyone who believes Afghanistan is improving while still under Islamic control should visit:  Revolutionary Association (http://www.rawa.org/index.php) of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) 

"Two years ago, the father of Samia raped a 10 year old daughter of Mohammad Yassin in Baghlan province in northern Afghanistan. When he was arrested, according to the customs of that area which are called "Bad", he is asked to give his daughter to a son of Mohammad Yassin, so the issue could be settled. He gives Samia to Mohammad Omer (son of M. Yassin) to marry.

Then Samia is taken to the house of M. Yassin where she is regarded as a slave and for two long years experiences every kind of torture and discrimination. The family daily beat the innocent child and locked her down in a dark basement. They injured her body by using hot metal pieces, pulled her hair, kept her naked and force her to stay outside in the freezing weather for hours and many other such bestial punishments."

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/2852cf40.jpg)

http://www.rawa.org/samia.htm

"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/005/21.26.html) ears, lips, and breasts (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=cut+off+ears+lips+breasts&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8)." 
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Under sharia law if an Muslim man says to one of his four wives "I divorce you", three times, he can move on to the next. She is out in the street. One day marriages are also acceptable for some.

For women it's a somewhat different matter. If a woman is caught in an adulterous relationship she is subject to being stoned:

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/286f4370.jpg)

Or may be hanged:

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/287346b0.jpg)

The slaughter of human rights (http://www.rawa.org/events/dec10-06_e.htm) under Islam.
How about children?

FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION (FGM (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=fgm&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8))

"Circumcision (http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et7.htm#p123) is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women."
Try a Yahoo search for female circumcision (http://search.yahoo.com/search_ylt=A0oGkl7IuJNFX8cA1O5XNyoA?p=female+circumcision+islam&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt), also known as female genital mutilation (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu48QbypKpmMB36hXNyoA?p=female+genital+mutilation+islam&y=Search&fr=yfp-t-501&fr2=sb-top&sao=1), or FGM (http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/409192893/m/6220067490001).  This is a punishment in Saudi Arabia for prostitution, and this procedure is practiced in much of Africa on children, but today even in Britan (http://www.bmj.com/archive/6994ed1.htm), and in the United States (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=female+genital+mutilation+united+states&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8).  "Why does FGM occur (http://www.4woman.gov/faq/fgc.htm) in the United States?"
Video (http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1467wmv&ak=null) of women speaking about female circumcision. Try YouTube searches (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fgm)
"For the first time ever (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2006/10/013701print.html), there is a criminal case in the United States stemming from Female Genital Mutilation - the practice of "circumcising" a female infant or toddler." ... Adem (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu7zMbypKGFsBSpdXNyoA?p=Khalid+Adem+circumcision&y=Search&fr=yfp-t-501&fr2=sb-top&sao=1), currently out on bond, is charged with aggravated assault and cruelty to children under Georgia law, both of which have the component of malicious intent. 'There is no malicious intent if you are from a practicing community,'"  Perhaps coming to a "practicing community" near you soon.

"In a law court (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_and_women.htm#56), the testimony of a man is equal to that of  two women. If a family inheritance is involved, a female beneficiary always receives less than a male. In fact, the Koran directs:  "To the male a portion equal to that of two females"" (Sura 4:11; 4:176).

More from MEMRI TV (http://www.memritv.org/subject/en/79.htm) on the rights of women.

Matthew 7:17-18 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat007.html#17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm).  18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on January 13, 2010, 01:14:33 PM
From an email.

Muslim Women

Thoughts from Nonie Darwish's book, "Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law."

In Islam, a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child. Consummating the marriage by age 9.

The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a toy.

Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce.

To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses.

Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their wives 'at will' and he does not have to say why he beat her.

The husband is permitted to have 4 wives and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his discretion.

Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of women.

In the Western World (America) Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law so the wife can not obtain a divorce and he can have full and complete control of her. It is amazing and alarming how many of our sisters and daughters attending American Universities are now marrying Muslim men and submitting themselves and their children unsuspectingly to Shariah law.

By passing this on, enlightened American women may avoid becoming a slave under Shariah Law.

Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world, destroying Western law and liberty.

Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in Egypt and Gaza before immigrating to America in 1978, when she was eight years old. Her father died while leading covert attacks on Israel . He was a high-ranking Egyptian military officer stationed with his family in Gaza .

When he died, he was considered a "shahid," a martyr for jihad. His posthumous status earned Nonie and her family an elevated position in Muslim society.

But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She questioned her own Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after hearing a Christian preacher on television.

In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping sharia law - what it is, what it means, and how it is manifested in Islamic countries.

For the West, she says radical Islamists are working to impose sharia on the world. If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed. Westerners generally assume all religions encourage a respect for the dignity of each individual. Islamic law (Sharia) teaches that non-Muslims should be subjugated or killed in this world.

Peace and prosperity for one's children is not as important as assuring that Islamic law rules everywhere in the Middle East and eventually in the world.

While Westerners tend to think that all religions encourage some form of the golden rule, Sharia teaches two systems of ethics - one for Muslims and another for non-Muslims. Building on tribal practices of the seventh century, Sharia encourages the side of humanity that wants to take from and subjugate others.

While Westerners tend to think in terms of religious people developing a personal understanding of and relationship with God, Sharia advocates executing people who ask difficult questions that could be interpreted as criticism.

Difficult as it may be to believe, today's Islamic scholars agree that those who criticize Islam or choose to stop being a Muslim should be executed. Sadly, while talk of an Islamic reformation is common and even assumed by many in the West, such murmurings in the Middle East are silenced through intimidation.

While Westerners are accustomed to an increase in religious tolerance over time, Darwish explains how petro dollars are being used to grow an extremely intolerant form of political Islam in her native Egypt and elsewhere.

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President by themselves and they may have already done so! Obama is a Muslim. They have also taken over several towns here in the USA, Dearborn, Michigan being one.

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read her book, but with the ACLU, there is no way it will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on!

It is too bad that so many are disillusioned with life and Christianity and accept Islam as peaceful. Some Moslems may be, but they also have a militant arm that is eager to shed blood in the name of Islam. Peaceful Moslems support these warriors with their finances and their faith in their religion. In Islam there is no separation of church and state, Islam is the state. While America is erasing Christianity from its public places and forgetting their God, the children of Muslims are preparing for a great jihad in America.

Passing this on is your chance to make a difference...!
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on April 12, 2010, 01:51:54 PM
Volume 7, Book 63, Number 182:
Narrated Abu Usaid:

We went out with the Prophet to a garden called Ash-Shaut till we reached two walls between which we sat down. The Prophet said, "Sit here," and went in (the garden). The Jauniyya (a lady from Bani Jaun) had been brought and lodged in a house in a date-palm garden in the home of Umaima bint An-Nu'man bin Sharahil, and her wet nurse was with her. When the Prophet entered upon her, he said to her, "Give me yourself (in marriage) as a gift." She said, "Can a princess give herself in marriage to an ordinary man?" The Prophet raised his hand to pat her so that she might become tranquil. She said, "I seek refuge with Allah from you." He said, "You have sought refuge with One Who gives refuge. Then the Prophet came out to us and said, "O Abu Usaid! Give her two white linen dresses to wear and let her go back to her family." Narrated Sahl and Abu Usaid: The Prophet married Umaima bint Sharahil, and when she was brought to him, he stretched his hand towards her. It seemed that she disliked that, whereupon the Prophet ordered Abu Usaid to prepare her and to provide her with two white linen dresses. (See Hadith No. 541).

Raised his hand to "pat her". Ya right.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: AnnaMuslim on June 08, 2010, 03:44:11 PM
This is a disgusting thread, may I remind you that there are an estimated 1.8 billion muslims in the world, and If they wanted to or believed in killing the infidel then each muslim only has to kill about 5 disbelievers, Problem solved, but that obviously does not happen, If Islam was spread by the sword, there would no countries outside Arabia that would be muslim, Indonesia. Malaysia, Sumatra, three quarters of Africa would all happily go back to disbelieving as the time of the sword is long gone. Women are abused by everyone except sincere Muslims at every level of society, Ask my wife she is a revert (to Islam from one of the staunches CHristian churches in the world (The apartheid NG sending Kerk) (ALLH guides whom he wills). The criteria is seek guidance from your Lord, open your heart to the truth and try not to brainwash yourself.

What you propagating and the way you going about spreading vile stories true or not they are are the worse of humankind. How about me telling people that 30% of what used to be christians are now Atheist, and they choose to be atheist in order to sleep with multiple partners. It sounds absurd, well, I am a Muslim and I live in a country with the majority being non-muslim, Christians, Jews, and a majority that does not believe  and the abuse of women and child Rape is unheard of amongst the Muslims but at epidemic levels amongst the disbelievers, see child rapes in South Africa due to the myth of AIDS: see  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article7133312.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1703595.stm (since 2001)
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/april/rape.htm

Exploitation of women are legalised in Holland,
Slavery and child abuse is common place in the Church (Catholic and Protestant)
In the East (bangkok) Slavery and child abuse by western visitors has balloned the industry 1000 fold in recent years
Would you like me to continue?

The Problems amongst disbelievers and Christians make Islamic transgressions look like childsplay,

Please do not act out of Ignorance take the beam out of your own eye.

Repent and turn to ALLAH for guidance.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 08, 2010, 03:55:04 PM
This is a disgusting thread, may I remind you that there are an estimated 1.8 billion muslims in the world, .......

I am well aware of that because Muslims populate like bunnies when they move to western welfare states.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for WIDE [IS] THE GATE, AND BROAD [IS THE WAY, THAT LEADETH TO DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat:

..... and If they wanted to or believed in killing the infidel then each muslim only has to kill about 5 disbelievers, ........

Lucky for the rest of us that most of you don't have the stomach for it, as so are considered to be apostates as far as the true Muslims in the cradle of the religion are concerned, that murder non-Muslims in the mold of your false prophet.
But your stats don't work too well with the U.S. being about 6 tenths of one percent Muslim. Particularly when 75% of U.S. so-called converts leave Islam within a few years.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=75%25+of+converts+leave+islam&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
It's not too late for you, my friend. Or the wife that you talked into joining you on your march to hell.

....... Problem solved, but that obviously does not happen, If Islam was spread by the sword, ........

I'm sorry but you cannot deny this. How do you explain the imperialistic slaughter of the Islamic First Jihad all the way up to France and Austria? Blessedly Charles Martel struck the deathblow to the murderous Mohammedans from which the Islamic beast was mortally wounded, until healed through western wealth transfer to start the 2nd jihad in the image of the Islamic first jihad.
http://beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#daniel_1335_days

........ there would no countries outside Arabia that would be muslim, Indonesia. Malaysia, Sumatra, three quarters of Africa would all happily go back to disbelieving .......

That's not an option as the 2 million killed at the hands of Islamic antichrists - in the Sudan alone - attest.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=2+million+killed+sudan+islam&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

....... as the time of the sword is long gone.

Doesn't matter where we look. In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and one of their heads left on the steps of a Church.   The note left behind reads:  "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."
Islamic terror is just as Mohammed practiced. You are trying to make an impossible case with over 15,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 08, 2010, 04:03:05 PM
Women are abused by everyone except sincere Muslims at every level of society, .......

Sure. That's why Mohammed instructed husbands to beat their wives. And the only discussion among Imams revolves around how hard to beat them - NEVER about the psychological damage caused. (refer to the first verse cited in the original post)
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam&aq=f

Sura (4:34) - Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

(http://beholdthebeast.com/27168100.jpg)

Even beat them green.
Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her.  Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing.  Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Sura 2:223  your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

..... Ask my wife ......

I would like to. Why don't you invite her into the forum, and show her all your comments and my replies, and let her join in the conversation?
If you have a fear of doing that then don't you need to ask yourself why?

...... she is a revert .....

Revert eigh? You bought the whole thing didn't you? For those unfamiliar with the term, the premise is that everybody on earth has always been born into Mohammed's 7th century cult. But even their own false prophet disagrees with this preposterous notion.

6.14 Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth? And He it is that feedeth but is not fed." Say: "Nay! but I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah (in Islam), and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah."

He knew that the Jews were monotheists so there can be no question that he was making claim to being the first Muslim.

..... (to Islam from one of the staunches CHristian churches in the world .......

She may have come from a church, but she wasn't a Christian. Here's why

Mar 13:22   For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

You see it's not possible for any of God's elect to be duped by a false prophet. If your wife is elect she will yet become a Christian. That goes for you too.

..... (The apartheid NG sending Kerk) (ALLH guides whom he wills). The criteria is seek guidance from your Lord, open your heart to the truth and try not to brainwash yourself.

But all you have done is a bad job of trying to spread your brainwash, without supporting it in the least. That's why you haven't responded to a single one of my replies to your comments.
You have been brainwashed into a religion that is a historical, archaeological and geographical absurdity.
You didn't explain it, because you can't explain it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.msg5794#msg5794

What you propagating and the way you going about spreading vile stories true or not ........

Having been hardened by a few years of dealing with Muslims I understand my presentation is a bit straightforward.
How would you present these matters of fact?
What if you felt as desperate as I do for the 1.5 billion Muslims deceived by the false prophet Mohammed?
You could die this very day, my friend. Are you ready to meet our judge?

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Forever is a very long time.

....... they are are the worse of humankind.

Because I've shown you can't have your cake and eat it too? Because it isn't OK to follow a false prophet that WAS and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ and all of His prophets and witnesses of the Gospel? Because I don't sit around a campfire with you, sing koom bye yah, and kiss the Quran like the pope did, as I watch you march merrily behind Mohammed to perdition?

2Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, FALSE ACCUSERS, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

How about me telling people that 30% of what used to be christians are now Atheist, ........

They weren't Christians. There is no shortage of those deluded into believing they became Christians, when a priest sprinkled water on their head as an infant, for example. Or those that recite the "sinners prayer" but never repent.

But then a "falling away" or apostasy, is as indicative of these times, as your false accusations.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling  away first.....
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 08, 2010, 04:06:35 PM
........ and they choose to be atheist in order to sleep with multiple partners.

This is of course NOT Christian "...neither fornicators...shall inherit the kingdom of God."

But it is exactly what Mohammed's Allah sanctioned. Indeed he even doted on Mohammed giving him all the wives and concubines he wanted - but only for him.

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess; - in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. (Sura 33:50-51 (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usc.edu%2Fdept%2FMSA%2Fquran%2F033.qmt.html&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8))

It's certainly not what God sanctions.

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Look how the false prophet Mohammed measured up to these verses. Of course rape and murder go without saying.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=879.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 08, 2010, 04:12:33 PM
It sounds absurd, well, I am a Muslim and I live in a country with the majority being non-muslim, Christians, Jews, and a majority that does not believe  and the abuse of women and child Rape is unheard of amongst the Muslims ......

That's because child rape is legal in Islam since it was OK for Mohammed to do Aisha when she was nine years old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OZ3s0BcSxs

And since an allegation of rape in Islam requires the testimony of three or more women, it continues to be unheard of.
If a lone girl makes the charge, she will more likely be killed by her parents to preserve their "honor", than to have her rapist brought to justice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

....... but at epidemic levels amongst the disbelievers, see child rapes in South Africa due to the myth of AIDS: see  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article7133312.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1703595.stm (since 2001)
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/april/rape.htm

Exploitation of women are legalised in Holland, ......

You seem to be blind to the fact that women who prostitute themselves in Holland, do so by choice, whereas Mohammed and his boys took women as captives and pressed them into sexual slavery. Mohammed's Allah even instructing on rules for pimping out one's sex slaves. Didn't you even read the OP?

Sura 24:33:...But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),    

So when they don't desire chastity, pimp them out and make a gain. Perhaps because she wants to share in the cash or maybe get some distance from her filthy captor for a little while.
But then even if you compel them, Allah is forgiving! Pretty convenient god for a band of murdering, thieving reprobates don't you think?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1263.0

 (and Muslims complained about Abu Grebe!)
Here's some of Mohammed's prisoner rape and fornication

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

But I guess as you would say as Mohammed that his "Allah" gave her to Mohammed, as "spoils of war, booty".
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 08, 2010, 04:19:22 PM
[disappeared then restored from database]
......Slavery and child abuse is common place in the Church (Catholic and Protestant)
In the East (bangkok) Slavery and child abuse by western visitors has balloned the industry 1000 fold in recent years

What you have reduced yourself to now is the classic Muslim fallback of pretending that all non-Muslims are Christians.

Would you like me to continue?

What I would like is for you to quit ignoring the replies that I have patiently placed on your comments.

The Problems amongst disbelievers and Christians make Islamic transgressions look like childsplay,

Before you characterize a behavior as "Christian" you are first going to have to show us where, in the Gospel, Christians are instructed to do any of what you claim Christians do.
I have shown you what Mohammed's Allah instructed in regard to raping captives, and pimping out one's sex slaves in the original post that you have yet to refute.

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'

Real nice bunch of guys, huh? Rape of, and fornication with, captives, CODIFIED into Mohammed's religion and practiced all over Mohammedan Africa today.

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes" one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children."

Please do not act out of Ignorance take the beam out of your own eye.

Repent and turn to ALLAH for guidance.

I'm sorry but you have failed miserably to make any kind of case for Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 7th century religion. And I have shown that Muslims must first empty their minds of history, archaeology, geography and particularly scripture, until their intellect becomes that of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate, in order to follow THE false prophet Mohammed.
All you've proven through your unsupported outbursts in here is that you don't know much more about Islam than you do Christianity.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That false prophet isn't the tooth fairy, my poor, deluded friend. Forever is a very long time.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: AnnaMuslim on June 12, 2010, 07:58:00 PM
My apologies if I seem to have no patience with you but your indoctrination and level of ignorance about Islam is just staggering, I know the problems of humanity (from amongst those who say they believe and those that openly transgress)

You have no argument, Islam took the world out of the dark ages and is continuing to do just that.

People like you seem to be bent on the negative and hatred and refusing to accept the truth over falsehood,

Muslims are passionate about their belief and live by their beliefs,

I have read a lot of the negative Islamic propaganda and yes I agree that it looks very bad to a none muslim and my test is very simple, "does the good of Islam outweigh the bad" in other words, how are we benefitting from Islam. Well the very numbers you using comes from Muslims it is actually Arabic symbols from the Muslim mathematicians in use to day, the zero in particular made this type of interaction possible, well what did the West use it for and the short answer is to spread pornographic images of women. what are the Muslims Using it for? Well to engage in conversations on religion.

What you portray are isolated incidents in very remote parts of the world, 1,8 billion Muslims are not ill treating their wives are we would have the same dysfunctional families the christians have, but 90% of the time problems are unheard of. Abuse is closely monitored by family members as the families are very close and generally ensure that their sisters and daughters are looked after in the ,manner their fathers did. The reason for this behaviour is the advice of The beloved of ALLAH, the final messenger, Muhammad (may ALLAH bestow peace and blessings on him, his wives and his companions.)

You have been lied to, and you have taken everything out of context, look around and see the huge negative effects of not following Islam on the world and the havoc it has wreaked on the world, through a doctrine that propagates that nothing is sacred, there are no laws, or rules, just be a good person and believe that Jesus died for you and you will be saved. That is Satans way of getting you to disobey GOD. That is a good way to build soldiers that kill for Patriotism, Killing and dying in the name of GOd is outlawed, by those who disbelieve. Please do not be so naive in believing that Muslims Kill, Christians apparently do not have ant verses pertaining to killing but have managed to kill the most people on earth. Please do not get me started on all the Christains who participated in wars out of anger, spite revenge and plain, we wont have the muslims ruling and we therefor will kill.


The BEAM IN YOUR EYE IS GETTING BIGGER BY EACH POST THAT IS NEGATIVE. Your Arguments are while not baseless thay are irrelevant to your own sprituality. You do not get closer to GOD by focussing on the negativity you say takes one away from GOD. You cannot argue with someone who holds superior knowledge to yours that is just plain Arrogance (Satanic Pride)

Heres your first lesson

The first command is that there is no GOD but ALLAH ( Your lord is One)
If Satan can get you to disobey this command he can get you to do anything.

Someone died for your sins (whatever happen to free will??

The Murder weapon (cross) becomes a symbol for a religion (though shalt not take or make any image to be worship, for I am a jealous GOD) do those words mean anything to you?













Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 13, 2010, 07:20:26 AM
My apologies if I seem to have no patience with you but your indoctrination and level of ignorance about Islam is just staggering, .........

But the reprobate nature of Mohammed and his boys is exposed through your own books. You're the one demonstrating "ignorance about Islam".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1263.0

...... I know the problems of humanity (from amongst those who say they believe and those that openly transgress)

You have no argument, Islam took the world out of the dark ages .......

Sorry, but what Muslims believe to be the period of ignorance, for them, BEGAN with Mohammed. That's why you have proven that you are required to ignore history, archaeology, geography and particularly scripture, until your intellect becomes that of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate.

Easy to understand of Mohammed's reprobate followers that were desert dwelling illiterates, because they were in it for the property stolen from the families of the men they slaughtered, as well as the wives and girls of the vanquished to press into sexual slavery. But what do you get, besides a ticket on the fast train to perdition?

....... and is continuing to do just that.

People like you seem to be bent on the negative and hatred and refusing to accept the truth over falsehood,

The "falsehood" to which you refer is from the Quran and Hadith.
This isn't about me, my friend. Did Mohammed's phony god sanction the rape and sexual enslavement of women - married or unmarried - taken as captives, or not?
Did Mohammed engage in the same or not?
Did Mohammed do a 9 year old or not? What about her desires? What happened to her free will?
Please review the original post again before responding.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 13, 2010, 09:25:48 AM
Someone died for your sins (whatever happen to free will??

That's the whole point - the reason for the Gospel. It is our free will, that allows us to sin, and thus require atonement for remission of those sins. That's the way it's been between God and His people for 3500 years.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0

But of course Mohammed taught that one receives remission from sin if they walk around the kaaba 7 times as the pagans did......

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 596:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "Whoever performs Hajj for Allah's pleasure and does not have sexual relations with his wife, and does not do evil or sins then he will return (after Hajj free from all sins) as if he were born anew."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.' (poor pagans kicked out of their own ritual!)

 ......... and kiss or point to the black stone former moon god idol each time around .....
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0

....... and run back and forth 7 times from al-Safa and al-Marwa as the Arabian jinn devil worshippers did.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)

Do you really believe that sin is remitted by practicing repackaged pagan Arabian rituals, rather than through blood sacrifice, as it has been with God's people for 3500 years?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: AnnaMuslim on June 14, 2010, 04:38:02 AM
There are too many false accusations, misguided statements and complete distortions of the truth to respond to on this post. You seem hell bent on using being the rudest person on earth (comment from a former Christian), Jesus never spoke the way you do!!!!!!!
Time to take my gloves of and sink to your level: Please read carefully.

1. You are lying and deliberately insulting a sacred text due to your bias and indoctrination. You cant be that gullible to swallow propaganda and lies, I can assure you that you do not have first hand knowledge of anything you quoting. You are regurgitating things you have heard from others. Not a single personal account is quoted, makes you a plagiarist. I have attended Christian School and have first hand knowledge of Jesus after studying the Bible for years and I continue to do so, not for arguments but to understand the deviations from the truth.

2. Not a single Prophet worshipped Jesus, or believed that Jesus died for their sins nor did they preach that to their flock. Do not forget that all your history comes from the Jews and they are totally against the doctrine of riginal sin (YES it is a Doctrine written by a man) and they cannot accept it as it is a complete contradiction of free will and intellect, the very thing that separates us from animals. You free to sin and someone (a human) dies for your sins????? In light of the topic under discussion, you can abuse (you call it seduce) woman and by the way the sexual abuse amongst Christians far outweighs the abuse amongst Muslims, Please check with the Stats figures in your country and get back to me.  Prostitution is abuse, sex by mutual consent is abuse. (My standards are obviously much higher than yours as this is not considered abuse. Letting a woman believe that she should flaunt what she has for all to see is abuse Printing it on a billboard is prostitution, By the way prostitution is a very bad thing and legalising it only makes those in authority look like they belong in the dark ages. Islam is trying to lead man to a dignified life, to give everyone their rights as human beings, and only god-less individuals would be opposed to something like that.

3. The Rights of women is the highest priority in Islam, stating something in terrible manner that you take out of context does make it sound like a completely illogical act. I refer to your comments on Aisha and the Quranic text on women. When viewed by a non-muslim with a history and a society of exploitative individuals it sounds like a dirty act. But you are treating Muhammad like an ordinary man, he was human but he is the Prophet of ALLAH and all your vile accusations against is of no consequence.

4. Your explanation of sharia law is exactly the opposite of what you stating, Sharia law ensures that the rights of human beings are maintained at the highest level. In order to understand and make comment on sharia law you have to understand what the rights of humans are not according to man made rules where rights seem to imply I amfree to do as a please even If I go to hell and no-one can tell me what to do (Sounds Satanic to a Muslim) Sounds like choas to authorities and sounds like Blasphemy if You believe in GOD.
Firstly you have to know and follow the will of GOD (YOU PETE have no Clue because you think you saved, who says God has accepted your arrogance and bad accusations against 1,8 billion people who according to you need saving, or don't you believe they deserve GOD's Grace?? DID Jesus Insult and ridicule the Jews being a JEW himself?? did he Insult and accuse the previous prophets of not announcing him properly to the JEWS???
Secondly: You have no new information from within yourself, you are indoctrinated and cannot understand that my answers are covering the topics completely. Let me spell it out for you.

1 Your sources of information and explanation of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad are highly questionable (sounds like sour grapes to me you know envy and hatred of something superior. Can be seen by the absurdity of your arguments and I dont argue with a fool, ( I am here out respect for Mr Ellis Skollfield)
2 You have no standard when it comes to women and you are focussed on a few bad individuals in Islam that are as rude as you are.
3. Ever heard of repentance, it cannot fit into the Gospel as you have the concept of original sin, Islam has repentance and reward for doing good. You are a sinner and can only be forgiven by GOD, not his son (he has does not have one we are all his creation not children, we all come from ADAM including Jesus, Messiah born of Mary
4 The Gospels New and Old Testament are unreliable as a holy text, too many changes has taken place over the years and laymen are too easily misled by individual interpretations to trust ( Youhave admitted that most Churches are misguided and not true churches, well that is due to the confusing text, written by men.)


Open you heart to the truth, use your intellect given to you by GOD, start by studying the Bible, in particular the history of the bible
I did latin at school and in the Seventies the bibles I read were all in Latin, the text differs much from the english, simple words like porto in latin, is it he carried or is it porter The one who carries, does not make a differenec to someone that does not care does it?


Regards
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 14, 2010, 07:06:59 AM
There are too many false accusations, misguided statements and complete distortions of the truth to respond to on this post. You seem hell bent on using being the rudest person on earth (comment from a former Christian), Jesus never spoke the way you do!!!!!!!
Time to take my gloves of and sink to your level: Please read carefully.

1. You are lying and deliberately insulting a sacred text due to your bias and indoctrination. You cant be that gullible to swallow propaganda and lies, I can assure you that you do not have first hand knowledge of anything you quoting.

Nobody on earth has "first hand knowledge" of what happened in the 7th century. That's why we have to depend on the texts FROM YOUR OWN RELIGION to get any idea about what Mohammed was like and see what you are taught and what MOHAMMED DID.
Why can't you answer with other than to spam in a bunch of false accusations, and what you WISH Islam is?

You are regurgitating things you have heard from others.

There is not reason to engage in your litany of false accusations against me, simply because you can't face the ugly truth about Islam. I QUOTED FROM YOUR OWN BOOKS. The Imams in the United States feed you a load of whitewashed garbage. If you want to understand TRUE MUSLIMS you have to look to how they behave, and what they believe, in the middle east cradle of the religion. Those are the FUNDAMENTALISTS THAT GET ISLAM that would cut peacenicks like you's heads off as apostates. The guys that do what they can to be just like Mohammed.

IS THE TAKING OF WOMEN AS SPOILS OF WAR PRESCRIBED IN THE QURAN OR NOT?

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess
[/color];... (Sura 33:50-51 (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usc.edu%2Fdept%2FMSA%2Fquran%2F033.qmt.html&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8))

Including still-married women:

Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:...

(Sahih Muslim) Book 8:3431: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

You have to answer this question, and we have to exhaust this point, before I can move ahead with your post.
You see, that's what DIAlog is. The very thing that guys like you prove that Mohammedans are incapable of engaging in.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: AnnaMuslim on June 14, 2010, 02:38:05 PM
Let me start at the beginning, The quran is a book of Guidance for those who fear GOD,where in there is no doubt

There are Ayats that were revealed at different intervals in order to ensure that mankind as whole benefit from the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet. We cannot live as 14th century Muslims just as you do not live or believe as 1st century followers of Jesus, we cannot teach ourselves we need teachers that know the truth.

To answer the thread of this post I have the following to say:

The e-mail from the former muslim echos her fears as Murtad, that they are out to get me, Muslims do not want to impose sharia law on the world, Sharia law is an acceptance of the laws of ALLAH by an individual who has accepted Islam. There is No compulsion in religion, it would obviously breed hypocrites like in the western world where she comes from it is obvious that her circumstance compels her to be a christian, many people fall in the same trap and it is evident in most societies, like swimming with the tide is easier.

Sharia Law compels a man to let a woman leave in peace if she wants to and granting her a divorce is the right thing to do, i am not sure what you refering to when saying that it is Muslim men that demand Sharia law as there are no benefits in it for them, on the contrary while the divorce (talaaq) proceedings are underway the man must maintain her standard of living, again, indians, Kashmiris, Arabs, Egyptians, Malaysians and Americans all have their own systems, does not make it Islamic law only ammunition for ignorant fools.

There is No Organisational Islam there are as many as 73 sects, no organisations, political parties and states with their own vested Interest, but no danger of a huge Islamic machine like the American Govt conspiring with the British and Austarlians and its European allies (G8) to rape the world of its resources with Arab oil driving the engines.

I will continue when i have more time, I

PS I have been rushing my answers as I am very pressed for time at the moment, bear with me i will answer the Threads thoroghly.

Regards
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 14, 2010, 04:01:19 PM
Let me start at the beginning, The quran is a book of Guidance for those who fear GOD,where in there is no doubt

There are Ayats that were revealed at different intervals in order to ensure that mankind as whole benefit from the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet. We cannot live as 14th century Muslims ........

I believe you meant 7th century Muslims, and you may not live like them, but many Muslims do EXACTLY WHAT MOHAMMED DID - BECAUSE IT'S PRESCRIBED BY THE QURAN.

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Can you be so ignorant as to not even know that slavery wasn't even outlawed in many Islamic states until within the last 50 years?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=773.0

........ just as you do not live or believe as 1st century followers of Jesus, ...........

The wonderful thing about the Gospel is that it is just as relevant today as it was in the 1st century.
We don't have to make excuses for Jesus' behavior because it was perfect - Mohammed's behavior was the EXACT OPPOSITE.

NOW CUT THE TAQIYYAH AND ANSWER THE QUESTION. TRY READING IT THIS TIME.

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: punisher on June 21, 2010, 06:21:14 AM
Peter

If i will show u what respect women get in Christianity than surely u will ban me,

But let see ?

(http://blogs.timeslive.co.za/beautifulyoungthings/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/mbau-cars/mbau-car-2.jpg)

Let see in the first image,

Is the publicity is for women or the Car???????

Ur society have made women as Show piece, This is not respect my brother, this truly the follow ship of Satan

Let see another image

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/052594950X.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)


Its very shameful for whole of Christianity what they have made their women, A tool of Sex, nothing more

and its very shameful for me posting those sinful images ???

Brother hope soon ur society will realize that Islam has respected women in every aspect of life?????


Soon u will See

Mark my words


Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 21, 2010, 06:57:15 AM
WHY DIDN'T YOU ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION?

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?

Peter

If i will show u what respect women get in Christianity than surely u will ban me,

But let see ?

Why would you be banned for something like this, when you haven't even been banned for all your blasphemy against the God of the Scriptures? Particularly since no Muslim has ever been banned from this forum.
All you did was demonstrate what happens when Muslims finally begin to realize Mohammed's religion is a fraud.

Generally after failure, after epic failure, they then make baseless accusations of "insulting our prophet" (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1268.0) when in fact it is Mohammed that insults himself, and all we do is point out the way he is revealed through your own books.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0

And the next thing Muslims do is lash out by throwing up straw man arguments that depend on a false premise that all non-Muslims are Christians. Or depend on believing that everyone who calls themselves a Christian, is a Christian, even when their actions are directly contrary to scripture.


Let see in the first image,

Is the publicity is for women or the Car???????

The secular ad is using sexual appeal to advance the sale of a car.
Exactly like Mohammed promised virgins and wine in his base and fleshly chicken and wine serving bordello that he called "paradise", in order to sell Islam to a bunch of 7th century reprobates!

Surah 83:25 Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed:
56.35 We have created (their Companions) of special creation. 36 And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), -

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 21, 2010, 07:13:31 AM
Disappeared then restored from database 7-31-13.

Ur society have made women as Show piece, This is not respect my brother, this truly the follow ship of Satan

Let see another image

Its very shameful for whole of Christianity what they have made their women, A tool of Sex, nothing more

and its very shameful for me posting those sinful images ???

But it has nothing to do with Christianity. Show me where it is suggested in the Gospel. If you cannot then by falsely calling it Christian behavior you are exposed as nothing more than a liar for Satan.

What you have shown is of the world, and Christians are specifically not of this world.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

The kingdoms of this world, from which your images come, are Satan's kingdoms. That's why Mohammedan Islam has lusted after Satan's kingdoms for 1400 years. Because Islam is of Satan - Satan's followers through the false prophet Mohammed.

Hey, but then what could show more "respect" for women, than raping them after slaughtering their fathers, husbands and sons?

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1263.msg5864#msg5864

Rape of prisoners as specifically condoned by Mohammed's phony god "Allah"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

Brother hope soon ur society will realize that Islam has respected women in every aspect of life?????

Soon u will See

Mark my words

In not a single aspect are women respected in Islam. From being treated as chattel by being assigned to some creep for life - because their father wanted it - at pain of death through an "honor" killing if they don't comply.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=54.0

To a 7th century illiterate that himself was too mentally challenged to learn how to read, actually calling women, &quot;deficient in intelligence&quot;. Indeed even slaughtering a literate female poet who wrote poetry about Mohammed's ridiculous pseudo-religious sham.<br />http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=127.0

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:... "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, ".... I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you.&quot;... The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence.&quot;

Your taqiyyah won't fly here my friend, as also shown in the original post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

Sura 2:223 your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: punisher on June 23, 2010, 07:17:52 AM


Not at all. This is a preface to further discussion on this subject.
So was Mohammed a liar, or did he substitute one verse for a better one, just as he said he did? Since you don't understand that Mohammed was indeed a liar, then would you follow the first verse that the new one substituted for, or would you follow the later "better" verse that he "substituted" with?

Christians also abuse Jesus, So it's common for them abusing other Prophet, Calling other Prophet as Liar and Theif

Let See How??

 

incident that shows Jesus as a hypocrite:


Jesus did not want his followers to repeat their prayers to GOD Almighty in a short time:

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.  (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 6:5-8)"

So according to Jesus in Matthew 6:5-8, Christians should not ask GOD Almighty more than once about the same thing, because only the heathens (infidels) do that.  Ok, let's look at what Jesus himself did when he started to pray to his GOD Almighty:

Matthew 16:36-50

36.  Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray."
37.  He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
38.  Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
39.  Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
40.  Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter.
41.  "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
42.  He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
43.  When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.
44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
45.  Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
46.  Rise, let us go! Here comes my betrayer!"
47.  While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people.
48.  Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him."
49.  Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him.
50.  Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."

(From the NIV Bible, Matthew 16:36-50)


"So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:44)"


How many times did Jesus pray over the same thing in such a small period of time?  3 times!!! Let us look at the following verse:

"One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.  (From the NIV Bible, Luke 6:12)"

When Jesus prayed all night long in Luke 6:12, did he not repeat his prayers?  His main focus was on GOD Almighty saving him from the crucifixion.  Jesus' prayers all night long, which obviously were far more than just 3 times, were repetition after repetition after repetition!


Also, since we're speaking of hypocrisy here, isn't Jesus a double-faced hypocrite in Matthew 16:46,50 for calling Judas "his betrayer", and then calling him "friend" after that?

Was Judas really Jesus' "friend"?  Isn't Jesus supposed to be the Creator of the Universe as the polytheist trinitarians claim?  Then am I wrong for taking Jesus, my supposed perfect GOD, at his own words and exposing his faults?
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 23, 2010, 03:11:19 PM
That's not a lie, nor is it hypocrisy.
That Jesus prayed a prayer three times on that occasion was no more instruction regarding how to pray, than his prostrating Himself on another occasion, constitutes instruction for us to do that. He gave us specific instruction so that we wouldn't have to labor under false presumptions the way Muslims do. That's why He specifically instructed on prayer, He also instructed how to pray, and specifically how not to pray.

And as you quoted he specifically prohibited a pattern of prayer that involves the vain repetitions of heathen. This is exactly the form of prayer that Mohammed learned from the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians, that he imposed on the followers of his homemade 7th century religion. Hate to break your bubble but he didn't learn it while riding around on a flying camel.

And you also saw His indictment of how men loved to pray before other men. This was so that men could impress the men with their personal "piety" that resulted from their delusions of self-righteousness. Muslims not only engage in this same behavior of the Pharisees, but in Saudi Arabia if you don't show up for prayers in front of other men, they send the Mohammedan police to your house to find out why.

And it gets worse - AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

And even though you believe that Jesus Christ is the only person in the history of mankind to be conceived by a virgin by the will of God, and you believe He was taken directly up to God, you desire to call Him a liar and a hypocrite because you have to, to follow a false prophet that came along 500 years later and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE, and whose corpse still lies rotting in it's shallow grave.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 23, 2010, 04:58:32 PM
The post in which you quoted proof texted verses from the Old Testament, that were unrelated to what you quoted, has been moved to a more appropriate thread, with my replies to it that you ignored twice. It will be easier for you to see there, and reduce the confusion here.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: punisher on June 24, 2010, 02:25:11 AM
That's not a lie, nor is it hypocracy.
That Jesus prayed a prayer three times on that occasion was no more instruction regarding how to pray, than his prostrating Himself on another occasion constitutes instruction for us to do that. He gave us instruction so that we wouldn't have to labor under false presumptions the way Muslims do. That's why when He is actually specifically instructed on prayer He instructed how to pray and specifically how not to pray.

And as you quoted he specifically prohibited a pattern of prayer that involves the vain repetitions of heathen. This is exactly the form of prayer that Mohammed learned from the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians, that he imposed on the followers of his homemade 7th century religion. Hate to break your bubble but he didn't learn it while riding around on a flying camel.

And you also saw His indictment of how men loved to pray before other men. This was so that men could impress the men with their personal "piety" that resulted from their delusions of self-righteousness. Muslims not only engage in this same behavior of the Pharisees, but in Saudi Arabia if you don't show up for prayers in front of other men, they send the Mohammedan police to your house to find out why.

And it gets worse - AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

And even though you believe that Jesus Christ is the only person in the history of mankind to be conceived by a virgin by the will of God, and you believe He was taken directly up to God, you desire to call Him a liar and a hypocrite because you have to, to follow a false prophet that came along 500 years later and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE, and whose corpse still lies rotting in it's shallow grave.

That's not lie, what do u mean, Man your books showing lie,

and I am 100000%, Jesus was not Liar, It's the people like Paul, Mathew and are Liar and the people who change the Bible after the Jesus?
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 24, 2010, 05:32:25 AM
That's not a lie, nor is it hypocracy.
That Jesus prayed a prayer three times on that occasion was no more instruction regarding how to pray, than his prostrating Himself on another occasion constitutes instruction for us to do that. He gave us instruction so that we wouldn't have to labor under false presumptions the way Muslims do. That's why when He is actually specifically instructed on prayer He instructed how to pray and specifically how not to pray.

And as you quoted he specifically prohibited a pattern of prayer that involves the vain repetitions of heathen. This is exactly the form of prayer that Mohammed learned from the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians, that he imposed on the followers of his homemade 7th century religion. Hate to break your bubble but he didn't learn it while riding around on a flying camel.

And you also saw His indictment of how men loved to pray before other men. This was so that men could impress the men with their personal "piety" that resulted from their delusions of self-righteousness. Muslims not only engage in this same behavior of the Pharisees, but in Saudi Arabia if you don't show up for prayers in front of other men, they send the Mohammedan police to your house to find out why.

And it gets worse - AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

And even though you believe that Jesus Christ is the only person in the history of mankind to be conceived by a virgin by the will of God, and you believe He was taken directly up to God, you desire to call Him a liar and a hypocrite because you have to, to follow a false prophet that came along 500 years later and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE, and whose corpse still lies rotting in it's shallow grave.

That's not lie, what do u mean, Man your books showing lie,

and I am 100000%, Jesus was not Liar, It's the people like Paul, Mathew and are Liar and the people who change the Bible after the Jesus?

Of course you're sure the Scriptures lie, because you are filled with the spirit of antichrist. That's why you believe Mohammedanism's fake created history and recycled jinn demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.  
But those witnesses you blaspheme are the only source of information about Jesus.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: punisher on June 24, 2010, 06:50:15 AM


Of course you're sure the Scriptures lie, because you are filled with the spirit of antichrist. That's why you believe Mohammedanism's fake created history and recycled jinn demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.  
But those witnesses you blaspheme are the only source of information about Jesus.


 So your own books (Bible) contain Antichrist (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1482.msg6221#msg6221)
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 24, 2010, 08:21:45 AM


Of course you're sure the Scriptures lie, because you are filled with the spirit of antichrist. That's why you believe Mohammedanism's fake created history and recycled jinn demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.  
But those witnesses you blaspheme are the only source of information about Jesus.

 So Antichrist your own books (Bible) contain Antichrist
 (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1482.msg6221#msg6221)

Indeed. John details the spirit of antichrist.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=624.0

Thus the most important fundamental in the false prophet Mohammed's satanically inspired 7th century religion, makes Mohammed and all Muslims antichrist, because they follow a jealous fallen angel.
Antichrist is certainly not defined by the Greek sophist styled entertainer, and consummate liar and antichrist Ahmed Deedat's fake bible verse, with which he deceived so many of his sctipture-ignorant, adoring, minions.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=335.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on June 24, 2010, 12:20:20 PM
I'm tiring of you ignoring points and posts. Like this one, regarding Mohammed and his sales pitch aimed at 7th century desert dwelling reprobates, whom he had also enlisted into murdering others through the promise of stealing and dividing up their property, and sexually enslaving their wives and children.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=951.0


Let see in the first image,

Is the publicity is for women or the Car???????

The secular ad is using sexual appeal to advance the sale of a car.
Exactly like Mohammed promised virgins and wine in his base and fleshly chicken and wine serving bordello that he called "paradise", in order to sell Islam to a bunch of 7th century reprobates!

Surah 83:25 Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed:
56.35 We have created (their Companions) of special creation. 36 And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), -

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0

The truth to Mohammed's invention of "paradise", for lecherous men, is transparent.
What do women get in Mohammed's "paradise"? To cook the chicken?

56.21 And the flesh of fowls, any that they may desire.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not  meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: AnnaMuslim on July 04, 2010, 03:09:49 PM
Quote
I believe you meant 7th century Muslims, and you may not live like them, but many Muslims do EXACTLY WHAT MOHAMMED DID - BECAUSE IT'S PRESCRIBED BY THE QURAN.

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Can you be so ignorant as to not even know that slavery wasn't even outlawed in many Islamic states until within the last 50 years?


DARFUR is a territorial war over OIL and the North (mostly muslim) Happen to have some against a minority (Christain South), The Janjaweed (ISlamic militia) fought for the rights of all Sudanese and were not going to be sidelined and as usual parties with special interest said that they cannot tolerate Sharia LAW if they are to exploit Sudan in the manner they do many other countries, IN OTHER WORDS IT IS WAR< THERE IS OPPORTUNITY FOR CRIMINALS< LIARS< KILLERS< MURDERERS< ECONOMIST< JOURNALIST< AND A LOT OF PROPAGANDA WITH NO_ONE REALLY CARING ABOUT STEPPING IN AND SORTING OUT THE MESSED CUASED BY THE USA>

this is how the BBC reports it:
Quote
How did the conflict start?
The Sudan Liberation Army (SLA) and Justice and Equality Movement (Jem) began attacking government targets in early 2003, accusing Khartoum of oppressing black Africans (SOUTH non Muslim) in favour of Arabs (NORTH and OIL).
Darfur, which means land of the Fur, has faced many years of tension over land and grazing rights between the mostly nomadic Arabs, and farmers from the Fur, Massaleet and Zaghawa communities.
How did the government respond to the rebellion?
It admits mobilising "self-defence militias" following rebel attacks.
But it denies any links to the Arab Janjaweed militia - who are accused of trying to drive out black Africans from large swathes of territory.


Quote
IS THE TAKING OF WOMEN AS SPOILS OF WAR PRESCRIBED IN THE QURAN OR NOT?

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess[/color];... (Sura 33:50-51)

Including still-married women:

Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:...

(Sahih Muslim) Book 8:3431: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

You have to answer this question, and we have to exhaust this point, before I can move ahead with your post.
You see, that's what DIAlog is. The very thing that guys like you prove that Mohammedans are incapable of engaging in.

The reason I ignore these posts as they are completely out of context, Yes one is allowed spoils of war, yes, Muhammad acted according to the dictates of a human being, We are not under the Impression that he is divine, on the contrary he is as Human as MOSES who killed and egyptian (murdered and egyptian out of anger) Muhammad did not how ever stoop to your low moral level and the manner in which you describe it completely distorts its meaning purpose and lessons for the current sday and age. We are all different, we are not white, american and pseudo wealthy (most of the wealth is borrowed or stolen from others).

In order to understand these verses and the context and applicability to your life and in order for you to understand them and apply it to your life yopu need emaan (belief and the knowledge of your creator, ALLAH)

I would have to explain the entire verse and Ahadith to you and then find the Tafsir (explanations) on a topic that is no longer relevant to us today society!!! ITis a lesson, history to explain the rules of engagement and to protect believers from sinning, Everyone is not like you so do not force your logic on them. Some are poor in war in poverty, oppressed by those around them , in remote villagers, About one oyt of the 6 billion has access to TV and Radio, We are fortunate but there are rules that should apply to all situations.

Hope it gives you a hint of what the entire answer is. Thank you

Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on July 04, 2010, 03:15:50 PM
Quote
I believe you meant 7th century Muslims, and you may not live like them, but many Muslims do EXACTLY WHAT MOHAMMED DID - BECAUSE IT'S PRESCRIBED BY THE QURAN.

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Can you be so ignorant as to not even know that slavery wasn't even outlawed in many Islamic states until within the last 50 years?


DARFUR is a territorial war over OIL and the North (mostly muslim) Happen to have some against a minority (Christain South), The Janjaweed (ISlamic militia) fought for the rights of all Sudanese and were not going to be sidelined and as usual parties with special interest said that they cannot tolerate Sharia LAW if they are to exploit Sudan in the manner they do many other countries, IN OTHER WORDS IT IS WAR< THERE IS OPPORTUNITY FOR CRIMINALS< LIARS< KILLERS< MURDERERS< ECONOMIST< JOURNALIST< AND A LOT OF PROPAGANDA WITH NO_ONE REALLY CARING ABOUT STEPPING IN AND SORTING OUT THE MESSED CUASED BY THE USA>

this is how the BBC reports it:

The BBC can't report it any better than our U.S. politically correct media can. You seek and find solace in their ignorance.
YOU are the one taking things out of context.
The House of Islam has been at war against the House of War - that is all non-Muslims - for 1400 years. That's a simple historical fact.
THE CONTEXT is easily seen in the rape, pillage and plunder of the Islamic First Jihad all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria. You have been brainwashed by Mohammedan liars. The middle eastern Muslims - THAT GET ISLAM and do as the false prophet Mohammed did - would be just as happy to cut your head off as an apostate, as they would mine as kuffaar.
Quote
How did the conflict start?
The Sudan Liberation Army (SLA) and Justice and Equality Movement (Jem) began attacking government targets in early 2003, accusing Khartoum of oppressing black Africans (SOUTH non Muslim) in favour of Arabs (NORTH and OIL).
Darfur, which means land of the Fur, has faced many years of tension over land and grazing rights between the mostly nomadic Arabs, and farmers from the Fur, Massaleet and Zaghawa communities.
How did the government respond to the rebellion?
It admits mobilising "self-defence militias" following rebel attacks.
But it denies any links to the Arab Janjaweed militia - who are accused of trying to drive out black Africans from large swathes of territory.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on July 04, 2010, 03:22:16 PM
Quote
IS THE TAKING OF WOMEN AS SPOILS OF WAR PRESCRIBED IN THE QURAN OR NOT?

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess[/color];... (Sura 33:50-51)

Including still-married women:

Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:...

(Sahih Muslim) Book 8:3431: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

You have to answer this question, and we have to exhaust this point, before I can move ahead with your post.
You see, that's what DIAlog is. The very thing that guys like you prove that Mohammedans are incapable of engaging in.

The reason I ignore these posts as they are completely out of context, Yes one is allowed spoils of war, yes, Muhammad acted according to the dictates of a human being, We are not under the Impression that he is divine, ........

So then you believe that under your "allah" the rape of captive women is OK?
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: AnnaMuslim on July 04, 2010, 03:55:54 PM
Quote
I'm tiring of you ignoring points and posts. Like this one, regarding Mohammed and his sales pitch aimed at 7th century desert dwelling reprobates, whom he had also enlisted into murdering others through the promise of stealing and dividing up their property, and sexually enslaving their wives and children.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=951.0

I am not under anyones influence, I am a free man, with many faults and desires, I have no societal, religious, social or family pressure to act in a certain way. I have a little knowledge of the Scriptures and I am interested to meet people that are interested in the truth, not reshaping it according to their prejudice.In fact I come from a country that suffered under colonial prejudice and I can see its ugliness in you.Your Tone and approach is that of an ignorant person indoctrinated by blasphemous scholars,

You don't site the fact that woman had rights in Arabia even before Islam, while women in Britain could not inherit their own fathers properties, they were prostituted, and married off to sometimes very abusive husbands, films are made of their stories!!!

Islam encourages the freeing of slaves, and Muhammad (may allah bestow peace and blessings on himlove setting slaves free..somehow you missed that part.

Islam is not a sales pitch, it is not stuck in the 7th century, nor is the knowledge the Quran revealed completely understood, new and exciting discoveries are made each year on the verses by philosophers, scientists, theologians and ordinary humans. Islam is real for ordinar and extraordinary humans taking reality into account, as we ( Muslims) are not pacifist or fascist we are not Americans and we are not Arabs, we not in any house, we are not organizing ourselves trying to take over the world, Truth will overcome falsehood, the spread of modern day Islam is via fighting the war on Ignorance using technology, as we are now in a technological age, and through the use of technology millions are embracing Islam. In the Time of the Prophet Muhammad it was necessary to use the Sword against the sworn enemies and violent perpetrators, In the time of the khalifs it turned to to gun powder, Knowledge via books, architecture and during the crusades it was wealth and opulence. Many embraced Islam when the saw the life Muslims were leading, with gardens with fountains, silk robes (that ended up in the Vatican no less as spoils of war)

We went into a lull for 600 years (1566) Suleiman (last great Khalif died) then 4 November 1979 the world came to hear of Iran, the Ayatollah and Islam, TV was the greatest propagator of Islam, Many americans started to ask questions and many became muslim in Canada and the USA. September the 11, one would expect the number of converts to decrease but unconfirmed reports cited as many as 60 00 Americans (born and raised) embraced Islam.

In a way, your vile attitude towards Islam has made me increase my knowledge and reconfirmed many truths about all the prophets especially Nabi EESA (Messiah born of Mariam) the Spirit of ALLAH.

Thank you

Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on July 04, 2010, 04:13:05 PM
You apparently missed this post.

Quote
IS THE TAKING OF WOMEN AS SPOILS OF WAR PRESCRIBED IN THE QURAN OR NOT?

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess[/color];... (Sura 33:50-51)

Including still-married women:

Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:...

(Sahih Muslim) Book 8:3431: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

You have to answer this question, and we have to exhaust this point, before I can move ahead with your post.
You see, that's what DIAlog is. The very thing that guys like you prove that Mohammedans are incapable of engaging in.

The reason I ignore these posts as they are completely out of context, Yes one is allowed spoils of war, yes, Muhammad acted according to the dictates of a human being, We are not under the Impression that he is divine, ........

So then you believe that under your "allah" the rape of captive women is OK?
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: AnnaMuslim on July 05, 2010, 06:45:39 PM
 IS THE TAKING OF WOMEN AS SPOILS OF WAR PRESCRIBED IN THE QURAN OR NOT?

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess[/color];... (Sura 33:50-51)


Why is it so difficult to accept? What part don't you understand? Picture yourself in the desert, leave behind the women and the children to fend for themselves after slaying their menfolk.

War is part of Scripture, what Bible do you have, were wars not fought in the bible? David and Goliath, wiping out of an enemy not part of the Bible scripture. What is the problem with your logic

Read the Quranic passages again only this time without prior prejudice!!!

Muhammad did what he did so as to be an example for mankind, all of mankind, not just Arabs, or Persians, or Indians, Europeans, not confined to a Geographical or socio political period, in history. There are still SLaves in Africa caused by the colonial occupation, that has left huge scars on entire populations.

In South Africa they have a dop system, outlawed when Mandela was elected as president. The farmers (European Christians) paid and to this day pay the workers with wine. Keeping them drunk to the extent that every generation that emerges are alcoholics at birth!!! One Example of Christians

I read of the Inquisition and Stories of the Crusades and I think to myself, what kind of Quranic ayat applies here. Well how do you propose stopping flat earth thinking???

Muhammad is the solution, and one man 1431 years ago proclaimed that there is one GOD and Muhammad is the final messenger of GOD and the known world (Scriptural areas from Spain to China, From Russia to the eqautor) felt the effects

Italians and Portuguese sailors started discovering the new world with maps confiscated from Yep Muslims (you probably call them MOORS)

On the 4th of July thank the Muslims for giving them the maps, Thank GOD for giving the Muslims the knowledge that made your democracy possible.

Regards
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on July 06, 2010, 06:34:31 AM
IS THE TAKING OF WOMEN AS SPOILS OF WAR PRESCRIBED IN THE QURAN OR NOT?

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess[/color];... (Sura 33:50-51)


Why is it so difficult to accept?

That folks would follow such a lustful, sinful man driven purely by the flesh, whose corpse still lies rotting in it's shallow grave, while rejecting the shed blood of the only perfect and sinless man that was ever on earth, even as they believe Jesus has no earthly grave, will continue to remain difficult for me to accept.
It is the power of the spirit of antichrist (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=624.0).

What part don't you understand? Picture yourself in the desert, leave behind the women and the children to fend for themselves after slaying their menfolk.

What you are really saying is that rather than be left behind to tend to the dates, camels and other crops that their hard working, then beheaded/slaughtered, husbands, fathers and sons had established, you believe the wives and daughters and young sons, that survived the men and boys that were beheaded, would prefer to have sex with the very men responsible for slaughtering their families, and selling their mothers and daughters and children off into slavery.
Of course, it is the very definition of rape. Mohammed raped captives.
At least you are more honest about Mohammed's rape of prisoners than punisher.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1482.msg6351#msg6351

War is part of Scripture, what Bible do you have, were wars not fought in the bible? David and Goliath, wiping out of an enemy not part of the Bible scripture. What is the problem with your logic

It isn't about "logic". It is about the way God revealed Himself to mankind. As men changed, God was also increasingly revealing Himself to us.

"By Mohammed's day, 1,500 years had passed since any Hebrew prophet was described in the Old Testament as using a sword in the service of God. Neither Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Amos, Malachi nor any other later Hebrew prophet is described as using the sword or prescribing its use."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0

Read the Quranic passages again only this time without prior prejudice!!!

It is you that is so blinded by the spirit of antichrist, and a love of lies, that you reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed through the 1600 year record of mankind, to accept the 7th century 23 year heavily abrogated (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0) record of A SINGLE prophet who has no fulfilled prophecy, never performed a single miracle, and who your own books reveal was a murdering, prisoner raping, thief.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0

Muhammad did what he did so as to be an example for mankind, all of mankind, ......

I see. So then we are all supposed to be murdering, prisoner raping thieves.
Certainly they agree with you in the Middle East and particularly in the Sudan where over 2 million innocents have been killed - and thousands raped - so far.
Now compare that with the example that Jesus Christ set for all mankind.
John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

..... not just Arabs, or Persians, or Indians, Europeans, not confined to a Geographical or socio political period, in history.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on July 06, 2010, 06:48:25 AM
There are still SLaves in Africa caused by the colonial occupation, that has left huge scars on entire populations.

You poor thing. Look how blind you are. Muslims were still capturing African slaves and pressing them into sexual service well into the late 20th century.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=67.0

In South Africa they have a dop system, outlawed when Mandela was elected as president. The farmers (European Christians) paid and to this day pay the workers with wine. Keeping them drunk to the extent that every generation that emerges are alcoholics at birth!!! One Example of Christians

Nothing more than false accusation unless you can show us where this is prescribed in the Gospel. Here is what IS prescribed in the Gospel.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I read of the Inquisition and Stories of the Crusades and I think to myself, what kind of Quranic ayat applies here.

What part of the Gospel sanctioned the way the Crusades were prosecuted?
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love  your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

We have a whole forum section devoted to the Roman church, that includes a detail of the parallels with Islam.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=512.0

Well how do you propose stopping flat earth thinking???

You mean like the sun setting in a pool of murky water?
Surah18.85 One (such) way he followed, 86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Isa 40:22   [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on July 06, 2010, 06:56:57 AM
Muhammad is the solution, and one man 1431 years ago proclaimed that there is one GOD ......

Can you be that ignorant? The Jews had been worshiping one God for 2,000 years before Mohammed invented his phony god "allah". The very Jews that Mohammed slaughtered. Christians, who received Jesus as the Messiah (many of whom were Jews) had been worshiping the same God for over 500 years before Mohammed's imperialistic rape, pillage and plunder in the name of his "allah".

...... and Muhammad is the final messenger of GOD ......

You indeed follow a single false prophet that DECLARED HIMSELF to be a prophet of God, yet has not a single fulfilled prophecy to his credit. Indeed his "revelations" are the EXACT OPPOSITE of that revealed through the Gospel.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=564.0
He also declared that he took a flying animal to Jerusalem, Heaven and back to Mecca by morning.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0
You actually believe that too. And in spite of the way your own books reveal his character.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0

..... and the known world (Scriptural areas from Spain to China, From Russia to the eqautor) felt the effects

Italians and Portuguese sailors started discovering the new world with maps confiscated from Yep Muslims (you probably call them MOORS)

On the 4th of July thank the Muslims for giving them the maps, Thank GOD for giving the Muslims the knowledge that made your democracy possible.

Regards

If Muslims had known anything about mapping and history, they would have understood that any notion of Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael ever having had anything to do with the area where Mecca was eventually built in the 4th century AD, is absolutely ridiculous.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1483.0

Since it is impossible to place them there, nearly a thousand years before the first caravan route was ever established along the Red Sea, then all of Mohammedan rituals are exposed as being exactly what they are. A continuation of Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn/demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=59.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: AnnaMuslim on July 06, 2010, 10:14:26 AM
Dear Pete you are completely and utterly taken in by falsehood, lies, distortions and refuse to listen to reason and logic,
Jesus is not a liar and I have been waiting for you to distort something I say, The gospels are according to a lot of people, least of whom are the disciples, i do not for one one moment believe they (desciples will tell lies) but those after them lied and their words were changed by the then Masters of the Christians.

 I will not, cannot even for a moment think that Jesus lied, let alone write it, you are the liar following lies and deception. That book you hold so dear may at one point in history have come from GOD but the version you holding is way off the mark. IT cannot be from GOD, or from the disciples of Jesus it may be according to but unfortunately it is according to a lot of people, translators included,

Too many inconsistencies and too many deviations from the truth.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on July 06, 2010, 10:38:44 AM
There is good reason you don't reply to my posts point by point as I do yours. Because you can see they are the ugly truth regarding Mohammed and his phony STAND-ALONE 7th century religious invention - his cult. All you can respond with is more blah, blah, blah, blasphemy and false accusation against the one true God, as you were indoctrinated into the Islamic kingdom beast.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Dear Pete you are completely and utterly taken in by falsehood, lies, distortions and refuse to listen to reason and logic,
Jesus is not a liar and I have been waiting for you to distort something I say, The gospels are according to a lot of people, least of whom are the disciples, i do not for one one moment believe they (desciples will tell lies) but those after them lied and their words were changed by the then Masters of the Christians.

But in order to believe this preposterous claim you would have to believe that the entire subject of the Gospel, the new covenant, was changed to be THE EXACT OPPOSITE of it's entirety.
This, in spite of the fact that we have over 5300 partial or complete manuscripts that were penned prior to the 300 AD, in every popular language known to man that were being read all over the known world, hundreds of years before Mohammed's own "allah" said....

Sura 5:47 Let the PEOPLE OF THE GOSPEL JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH HATH REVEALED THEREIN. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

So was Mohammed's "allah" so ignorant that he didn't even know the Gospel had been corrupted when he inspired that verse IN THE 7TH CENTURY?

Sura 5:68 Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye STAND FAST BY the Law, THE GOSPEL, and ALL THE REVELATION that has come to you from YOUR Lord."

How did Mohammed's own phony god not know the scriptures had been corrupt for so many hundreds of years before he inspired those verses in the 7th century?

"For a claim of tampering to be seriously considered, one would have to show that scribes from Syria, Babylonia, Galatia, Asia, India, Rome, India, Egypt, Greece, Carthage, Tarshish and Macedonia -- to name a few -- all made the same mistake, at the same time, for the same doctrinal purpose. An utterly ridiculous idea."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0
I will not, cannot even for a moment think that Jesus lied, .......

That's right. Jesus didn't lie.
Mat 26:28   For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Unlike Mohammed the liar.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=952.0

Jesus IS truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

....... let alone write it, you are the liar following lies and deception. That book you hold so dear may at one point in history have come from GOD but the version you holding is way off the mark. IT cannot be from GOD, or from the disciples of Jesus it may be according to but unfortunately it is according to a lot of people, translators included,

Too many inconsistencies and too many deviations from the truth.

Sure, God's people follow Him for 3500 years, through two covenants, as revealed through ALL of the prophets and witnesses in His 1600 year record.
But somehow they all got it wrong, and a murdering, prisoner raping, 7th century thief knew better, through his 23 year record that is THE EXACT OPPOSITE.
Even following in the pagan rituals of moon, sun, star and jinn/demon worship, in performance of Tawaf and Saee, just like the pagan Arabs did.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
Makes perfect sense to reject the 1600 year record of the scriptures, to follow an unrepentant murdering, slave raping, thief, doesn't it?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0

2Cr 11:14   And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Title: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: punisher on July 16, 2010, 06:07:56 AM
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/muslim_girl_1.jpg)

While this is a picture of a young teenage Muslim girl, but in general, this is a what a typical Muslim woman looks like: Pure, innocent, virgin (until marriage) and non-sexual.  A true man would be willing to die for a true and blessed Angel of that kind, because if she's faithful to her GOD Almighty, then she will definitely be faithful and honorable to her family.

=====================================================

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/christian_church_chicks.jpg)

This is an image of a popup window in a FOX News' article regarding Christian
girls, or should I say "chicks" doing some cheerleading work.  The cloths they're
wearing and them being "members of the lithia Christian Academy cheerleading"
further prove my point above about Christians being porn-lovers and sexually
open sinners.  These "chicks" don't see any problem in exposing almost all of
their legs to the public. I am sure that they also don't have a problem in
wearing bikinis at the beaches.
  And it wouldn't surprise me if most of them,
if not all, are non-virgins.  And if you pay them, they probably wouldn't have a
problem in showing their breasts to the public as the "girls gone wild" do.

Again, compare this Christian garbage to the Angelic picture of the
typical Muslim girl above who lives chaste and honors her body and virginity, and
most importantly, respects and adores GOD Almighty's Divine Commands
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 16, 2010, 11:33:55 AM
While this is a picture of a young teenage Muslim girl, but in general, this is a what a typical Muslim woman looks like: Pure, innocent, virgin (until marriage) and non-sexual.

Muslim "teenager" huh? Though even if she's 9 she's old enough for a Muslim to do. Even 6 is old enough to be "married" off by her father or brother to the highest bidder. Years before she ever would have been inclined toward anything regarding men from her own desires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms8tnn8klF8
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islam+child+brides&aq=f

These "chicks" don't see any problem in exposing almost all of
their legs to the public.

Perhaps because they don't have any idea as to the terrific lechery, in the fleshly spirit and sociopathic nature of the typical male Muslim that could be looking on, and their need to cover all their flesh before the Muslim male, unable to control his fleshly lust, looses his mind and rapes them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rape+in+islam&aq=f
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 27, 2010, 06:35:55 AM


Muslim "teenager" huh? Though even if she's 9 she's old enough for a Muslim to do. Even 6 is old enough to be "married" off by her father or brother to the highest bidder. Years before she ever would have been inclined toward anything regarding men from her own desires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms8tnn8klF8
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=islam+child+brides&aq=f

Muslim marry girl even if they are 11 or 14 years old, .......

You mean Muslim men marry a girl even if she is 6 years old, just as Mohammed did. Even if she is 1 year old according to this Saudi Cleric.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F13gtjjDEgE

This is how we know that Muslim men have no interest in the desire of women - or what women want.
Muslim women are assigned to men by their fathers or brothers just like trading cattle or property. "Only the father's opinion matters".

Just as Daniel prophesied.
Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women....

........ but what about the priests they rape the 3 year old girls,

1. Please support this charge that priests rape 3 year old girls.
2. Then after that you can show us where God condones that behavior for priests.

The rest of your post is moved to spam until you break it down into individual points AFTER you answer to each point in this reply, and support this charge, whereafter you must break it down into individual points.
No more spamming.
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: punisher on July 27, 2010, 07:49:28 AM
You mean Muslim men marry a girl even if she is 6 years old, just as Mohammed did. Even if she is 1 year old according to this Saudi Cleric.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F13gtjjDEgE

Muslim marry the Girls, and priest rape the Girls, Who is better Please tell

This is how we know that Muslim men have no interest in the desire of women - or what women want.
Muslim women are assigned to men by their fathers or brothers just like trading cattle or property. "Only the father's opinion matters".

Islam the only religion which give women the respect,


1. Please support this charge that a priest raped a 3 year old girl.
2. Then after that you can show us where God condones that behavior for priests.

Sorry My Fault actually the age of was 13 years, I missed the figure one

Here is detail

Priest raped 13-year-old girl in sacristy of church  (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priest-raped-13yearold-girl-in-sacristy-of-church-90670.html)



Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 27, 2010, 07:53:11 AM


1. Please support this charge that a priest raped a 3 year old girl.
2. Then after that you can show us where God condones that behavior for priests.

Sorry My Fault actually the age of was 13 years, I missed the figure one

Here is detail

Priest raped 13-year-old girl in sacristy of church  (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priest-raped-13yearold-girl-in-sacristy-of-church-90670.html)

Now #2

We know that Mohammed and the boys raped young girls, except of course, to those that actually believe that a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a dirty old lecher, simply because he declared he was married to her.

This 12 year old may help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaP_sGRs2JQ
Or this 8 year old girl may be able to help you see the light.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms8tnn8klF8
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: punisher on July 27, 2010, 07:55:26 AM


Now #2

We know that Mohammed and the boys raped young girls, unless of course, you are willing to suggest that a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a dirty old lecher simply because he declared he was married to her.

I don't know please provide the detail from authentic source
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: resistingrexmundi on July 27, 2010, 08:00:26 AM
But there are two important points you are missing. Similiar behaviour between two people does not make that behaviour right. For example: If a person were caught stealing from an old lady and then later another person was caught stealing from an old lady does the later person's actions make the former person's behaviour right?

Secondly, there is nowhere in the Bible where God condones or commands anyone to indulge in rape. So even if you could line up a million so-called "christians" that had committed such an atrocity they would not be able to defend their debauchery with the Scriptures. Do you understand the difference?

When a muslim marries a little girl who is too young to form an informed opinion about marriage, let alone her own sexuality, a muslim can point to the example of Muhammad as support for his action. When a "priest" commits an act of statutory rape he can point to noone, much less Jesus, who he is supposed to emulate, for support of his actions. That is the big difference.
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 27, 2010, 08:02:53 AM


Now #2

We know that Mohammed and the boys raped young girls, unless of course, you are willing to suggest that a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a dirty old lecher simply because he declared he was married to her.

I don't know please provide the detail from authentic source

I requested you follow up your original (what we now learn was a false) claim, with #2

2. Then after that you can show us where God condones that behavior for priests.

To help you understand rrm's post, and this question, would you agree that the Ahmadiyya sect is correct?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1501.0
Of course you wouldn't! They are foolish enough to suggest that Islam is a peaceful religion, directly contrary to the progressive revelation, or "stages", of Mohammed's "revelations"!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 27, 2010, 08:33:52 AM
[disappeared then restored from database]


Now #2

We know that Mohammed and the boys raped young girls, unless of course, you are willing to suggest that a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a dirty old lecher simply because he declared he was married to her.

I don't know please provide the detail from authentic source

Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.

Surely you aren't going to try to deny that Mohammed "married" Aisha when she was 6, and that 52 year old Mohammed had sex with Aisha (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&amp;q=aisha+9+years+old+sex&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=&amp;aql=&amp;oq=&amp;gs_rfai=&amp;pbx=1&amp;fp=319ac6396ab57d1b) when she was only 9 years old!
Regarding your request for "authentic source"

http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm
1. Sahih al-Bukhari 810-870 A.D. 256 A.H.

1a. "Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.236 p.153.

1b. The same points are in Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.234 p.152.

1c. "Narrated ‘Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six year old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.60 no.88 p.65

1d. Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet was screening me with his Rida' (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect. Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.115 no.163 p.119

1e. "Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam), and (I don't remember) a single day passing without our being visited by Allah’s Apostle in the morning and in the evening." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.44 no.245 p.158. Thus ‘Aisha was either not very old or not born yet when her parents became Muslims. This is consistent with her being a child when her marriage with Mohammed was consummated.

2. Sahih Muslim 817-875 A.D. 261 A.H.

This is generally considered the second most reliable collection of hadiths.

2a. "(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She too hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.&quot; Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3309 p.715-716

2b. &quot;(3310) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

(3311) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married here when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and here dolls were with her: and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3310,3311 p.716.

2c. "(5981) ’A’isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), whereas Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent them to her.

2d. (5982) This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Hisham with the same chain of transmitters with a slight variation of wording.&quot; Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 29 ch.1005 no.5981-5982 p.1299

3. Sunan Abu Dawud 817-888/9 A.D. 275 A.H.

3a. "(2116) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said : Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.2 book 5 ch.700 no.2116 p.569

3b. "(4913) ‘A’ishah said : I used to play with dolls. Sometimes the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon me when the girls were with me. When he came in, they went out, and when he went out, they came in.&quot; Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1769 no.4913 p.1373

Note carefully this is NOT saying Mohammed had intercourse with A’isha while her playmates were watching. Rather it says the playmates played with her, and they went out when Mohammed came by, and could come back after he left.

3c. "(4915) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Abu Dawud said : That is to say : I menstruated, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari (Helpers) in it. They said : With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915 p.1374

3d. (5916) [typo, really 4916] The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Abu Usamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: ‘With good fortune.’ She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4916 p.1374

3e. (4917) ‘A’ishah said: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were [sp] up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4917 p.1374

3f. (4918) The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Hisham b. ‘Urwah through a different chain of narrators. This version adds: I was swinging and I had my friends. They brought me to a house ; there were some women of the Ansar (Helpers). They said : With good luck and blessing. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4918 p.1374

3g. (4919) ‘A’ishah said : We came to Medina and stayed with Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. She said : I swear by Allah, I was swinging between two date-palms. Then my mother came, and made me come down; and I had my hair up to the ears. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915-4919 p.1374.

Conclusion on Abu Dawud: 7 references and no counter-references affirm that A’isha was nine.

4. Tirmidhi 825-892 A.D. 209-279 A.H.

"..Ahmad and Is'haq said that if a female orphan reaches nine years old and was wed with her consent, then the marriage is permissible and she will have no choice when she matures. The two relied on a hadith by Ai'sha stating that the prophet peace be upon him had sexual relations with her when she was nine. Aisha said, if the little girl reaches nine then she is a woman" Tirmidhi said: A good hadith. (Tirmidhi, "Marriage according to Allah's apostle", #1027)

5. Sunan Nas’ai 830-915 A.D. 215-303 A.H.

5a. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was six and had intercourse with her when she was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3255)

5b. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was seven and had intercourse with me when I was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

5c. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was nine and I accompanied him for nine years. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3257)

5d. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was nine and died when she was eighteen. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3258)

5e. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was six and had intercourse with me when I was nine and I was playing with dolls. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

Note that the previous are in original Arabic, but were not in the English translation. However, the English translator at the front wrote the following under #18.

"When Hadrat & A'isha passed nine years of married life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness. On the 9th or the 12th of Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 A.H., he left this mortal world…Hadrat & A'isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven." Sunan Nasa’i vol.1 #18 p.108-109 (English material at the front)

Note that she had nine years of married life with Mohammed, and since he died when she was eighteen, she was nine years old when she started her married life with Mohammed.

Conclusion on Sunan Nasa'i: Not counting English translation notes, the Arabic has 5 references and no counter-references to affirm that A’isha was nine.

6. Ibn-i-Majah 824-886/887 A.D. 273 A.H.

6a. A’isha was married when she was six years old, and nine when she went to Mohammed’s house. Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1876 p.133

6b. A’isha was married at seven, went to Mohammed’s house at nine, and was 18 when Mohammed died. According to al-Zawa’id, its isnad is sahih according to the condition of Bukhari. However Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father, so it is munqata (has a gap) Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1877 p.134.

7. The Historian ibn Ishaq - died 767/773 A.D. 145/151 A.H.

7a. "Yahya b. Abbad b. Abdullah b. al-Zubayr from his father told me that he heard Aisha say: &quot;The apostle died in my bosom during my turn: 'I had wronged none in regard to him. It was due to my ignorance and extreme youth that the apostle died in my arms.'"

(Guillaume, A., The Life of Muhammad, a translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, Oxford University Press, Karachi, Pakistan, page 682). A’isha said she was an extreme youth when Mohammed died.

8. The Historian al-Tabari - died 923 A.D.

8a. ‘Aisha was 6 (or 7) years old when she was married, and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.9 p.129-131. Muhammad b. ‘Amr is one of the transmitters.

8b. ‘Aisha was 6-7 when married, and the marriage was consummated when she was 9-10, three months after coming to Mecca al-Tabari vol.7 p.7. The chain of transmission includes an unnamed man from the Quraysh.

8c. Aisha died in June-July 678 A.D. (A.H. 58) at the age of 66. That would make her born in 610 A.D.. al-Tabari says she consummated her marriage with the prophet when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.39 p.171,173. (al-Tabari wrote 38 volumes of history, plus a 39th volume called Biographies of the Prophet’s Companions and Their Successors.)

X 8c. On the other hand, al-Tabari also wrote that i.e. "All four of his [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period." (Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, vol.4, p.50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979. al-Tabari vol.11 p.141 also mentions this, with footnote 766 saying al-Tabari has a conflict here. The footnote also says that al-Baladhuri’s Ansab I, p.409-411; Ibn Hajar’s Isabah IV, p.359-360 supports her being married by 9 years old.<br /><br />Majority Muslim Explanations

There are two basic categories of answers Muslims have for this: the majority agree that these hadiths are reliable here, and a minority disagree.

The majority view affirms the reliability of these hadiths. If the hadiths and historians are to be trusted, then Mohammed, at around 53 years old, did have sex with a nine year old girl. As one Muslim told me "… and I bet A’isha was the happiest nine-year old girl in the world"

In 2005, the following defunct web page also said this, and also accused liberal Muslims of catering to western morality and denying the truth. http: // admin.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Polemics/aishah.html

Footnote 1958 on p.715 says in part: "According to Imam Shafi’i, marriage in childhood is not something appreciable. It was under some exceptional circumstances that Hadrat ‘A’isha was married to the Prophet (may peace be upon him). The second point to be noted is that Islam has laid down no age limit for puberty for it varies with countries and races due to climate, hereditary, physical and social conditions. Those who live in cold regions attain puberty at a much later age as compared with those living in hot regions where both male and female attain it at a quite early age. "The average temperature of the country or province,’ says the well-known authors of the book Woman, "is considered the chief factor here, not only with regard to menstruation but as regards the whole of sexual development at puberty. … Similarly, the author of Kinsey Report states: ‘The incidence of pre-adolescent sex play at particular ages (active incidence) seems to have been highest in the younger age groups. Some eight per cent of the females in the sample recalled pre-adolescent hetero-sexual play at ages five and seven&quot; (Alfred C. Kinsey and Others, Sexual Behaviour in the Human Female, p.110)" -- All of this was quoted from Sahih Muslim vol.2 footnote 1958 p.715.

The translator of Sahih Muslim vol.2 gives an explanation in footnote 1960 on p.716. "The Holy Prophet’s (may peace be upon him) marriage with ‘A’isha has been criticized by the Western critics. It is, however, strange that contemporary critics of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) who leveled all kinds of charges against him did not make any mention, not in the least, of this marriage. It should be borne in mind that, like all acts of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), even this marriage had a Divine purpose behind it. Hadrat ‘A’isha was a precocious girl and was developing both in mind and body with rapidity peculiar to such rare personalities. She was admitted to the house of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) just at the threshold of her puberty, the most impressionable and formative period of her life. … Even from the psycho-sexual standpoint it was a happy union as it is evident from the records of the Hadith. ‘When the difference (in ages),’ says Von De Velde, Director of the Gynaeological [sp] Clinic at Harlem [New York?], ‘is great, e.g. exceeds fifteen or twenty years, the results may be happier. The marriage of an elderly (senescent) - not, of course an old (senile) - man to a quite young girl, is often very successful and harmonious The bride is immediately introduced and accustomed to moderate sexual intercourse" (Ideal Marriage, Its Psychology and Technique, London, 1962 p.243)."
Sahih Muslim vol.2 p.716.

Certainly nothing's changed regarding filthy old lechers doing children (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&amp;q=child%20brides%20islam&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;source=og&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wi&amp;biw=1152&amp;bih=549) in Islam.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/Sa6s36hiLkI/AAAAAAAAHq4/T_05gJXnJFA/s400/Muslim_Marriage.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4511959775_491985f36f.jpg)
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 27, 2010, 09:06:16 AM
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/muslim_girl_1.jpg)

While this is a picture of a young teenage Muslim girl,....

Can you verify that the girl in this picture is a teenager? Looking with Mohammed's eyes perhaps?
Appears to me that she is still pudgy with baby fat.

My, she's quite a highly opinionated young lady, isn't she? Or should I say tool.
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: punisher on July 28, 2010, 05:24:51 AM
[disappeared then restored from database]

2. Then after that you can show us where God condones that behavior for priests.

Little wonder why we hear from the media about Priests that are in involved with Pedophilic acts. However, from where these Priests inspire to do such acts? The answer is that they inspire from Bible. Actually, Pedophilia was born from this book of perversion. Let us see some passages that clearly support Pedophilia and Rape of preteen girls

Numbers 31: 17-18

 17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

The Jewish soldiers were commanded by “God” in the bible to keep the woman children (little girls) for themselves! In addition, they commanded to kill every woman that hath know a man by lying with him. How these soldiers in those days know if the girls are virgin or not? Simply they verify it by raping them and if the Jews discovered that they are non-virgins then they kill them as they commanded by “God”.

But the most outrageous is that the Bible imply that God is a Pedophile himself! (AstagfuruAllah)

Numbers 31: 25-40

25. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

26. Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:

27. And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:

28. And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons,(including the little girls) and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

29. Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.

30. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons(including the little girls), of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.

31. And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.

32. And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

33. And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,

34. And threescore and one thousand asses,

35. And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

36. And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:

37. And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.

38. And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.

39. And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.

40. And the persons(including little girls) were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.(preteen girls)


[/u]


The verse 40 is to dedicate the little girls (of women that had not known man by lying with him-32 of them) to“God”! As God, himself commanded above that wants these preteen girls. Indeed clear perversion, God in the bible want for himself 32 little girls, why? Maybe to do what his soldiers(Jews)to the innocent little girls. Therefore Bible by saing that “LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.(preteen girls) actually demonstrate the Pedophilic nature of the biblical “God” . Shame to the Bible and Shame to its followers.

So when we hear from the media, Priests(Christians and Jews-majority of Christians) that rape and molest young preteen boys and girls, we must not be surprised because these are the teachings from their “Holy Book” the Bible, as clearly demonstrated from the Verses : Numbers 31: 25-40.
In the verse 35 we are told that Jews caught as booty 32.000 preteen girls for themselves
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: punisher on July 28, 2010, 05:32:18 AM

Secondly, there is nowhere in the Bible where God condones or commands anyone to indulge in rape. So even if you could line up a million so-called "christians" that had committed such an atrocity they would not be able to defend their debauchery with the Scriptures. Do you understand the difference?


I think you should change the version of Bible, Pick up new version of Bible, and compare both of them, Than u will find the difference?
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 28, 2010, 06:04:06 AM
2. Then after that you can show us where God condones that behavior for priests.

Little wonder why we hear from the media about Priests that are in involved with Pedophilic acts. However, from where these Priests inspire to do such acts? The answer is that they inspire from Bible. Actually, Pedophilia was born from this book of perversion. Let us see some passages that clearly support Pedophilia and Rape of preteen girls

Numbers 31: 17-18

 17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

The Jewish soldiers were commanded by “God” in the bible to keep the woman children (little girls) for themselves! In addition, they commanded to kill every woman that hath know a man by lying with him. How these soldiers in those days know if the girls are virgin or not? Simply they verify it by raping them and if the Jews discovered that they are non-virgins then they kill them as they commanded by “God”.

I suppose that would be the only solution in the mind of a male Muslim since that's what Mohammed and his boys did IN THE 7TH CENTURY.
It wouldn't occur to you that they would be asked, or verify by whether they had children or not.
But where in this record of a historical event of a few thousand years ago does it instruct Christian priests to molest children?
   
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 28, 2010, 06:13:50 AM
But the most outrageous is that the Bible imply that God is a Pedophile himself! (AstagfuruAllah)

Numbers 31: 25-40

25. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

26. Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:

27. And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:

28. And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons,(including the little girls) and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:

29. Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.

30. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons(including the little girls), of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.

31. And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.

32. And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

33. And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,

34. And threescore and one thousand asses,

35. And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

36. And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:

37. And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.

38. And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.

39. And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.

40. And the persons(including little girls) were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.(preteen girls)

[/u]


The verse 40 is to dedicate the little girls (of women that had not known man by lying with him-32 of them)

to"God"! As God, himself commanded above that wants these preteen girls. Indeed clear perversion, God in the bible want for himself 32 little girls, why? Maybe to do what his soldiers(Jews)to the innocent little girls.

You presume that is what they did because that is what your own false prophet Mohammed did and his followers unto today.

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Therefore Bible by saing that "LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.(preteen girls) actually demonstrate the Pedophilic nature of the biblical "God" . Shame to the Bible and Shame to its followers.

 So when we hear from the media, Priests(Christians and Jews-majority of Christians) that rape and molest young preteen boys and girls, we must not be surprised because these are the teachings from their "Holy Book" the Bible, as clearly demonstrated from the Verses : Numbers 31: 25-40.  
In the verse 35 we are told that Jews caught as booty 32.000 preteen girls for themselves

Slaves were taken for many reasons, including domestic chores.
Where in the historical event recorded in those old covenant verses does it "teach" anyone anything (besides perhaps consequences of disobeying God), let alone to "rape and molest young preteen boys and girls"?
Did the revelation of God to mankind end with those verses, or continue unfolding, as mankind changed over another thousand years, or so?
When did the prophets end suggestion of the use of a sword in God's service?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0


Do you see how Satan through his prophet Mohammed and the spirit of antichrist broke your mind? How he impeded your ability to do other than blaspheme God in order to follow your murdering, prisoner raping, thief "prophet" just as prophesied of Mohammed's Islamic "beast"?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1536.0

You projected the behavior of your 7th century false prophet Mohammed, back a couple thousand years, knowing what he would have done.

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

What does the Gospel instruct of "overseers", or bishops as the KJV refers to them?

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

You may begin to see from the verse above, why the Roman Church false doctrine of celibacy of priests, winds up producing the result that you note in some men that call themselves priests.
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: punisher on July 29, 2010, 12:47:53 AM

Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.



Can u please Tell

IS Marrying Mean Rape

Which is Better Raping the Girl of 13 Year or Marry Her?


Are Marrying and Raping  Equal To You?

Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 29, 2010, 05:04:31 AM
[disappeared then restored from database]


Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.

Can u please Tell IS Marrying Mean Rape

Which is Better Raping the Girl of 13 Year or Marry Her?

Are Marrying and Raping Equal To You?

<br /><br />Rape is obviously always wrong. It isn't about what is better or worse.
A marriage is engaged in by 2 consenting adults.
Do you really believe a 9 year old girl would desire to marry a 52 year old man?
Do you think that is what she would choose?
Do you think a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a 52 year old?

Do you think a female prisoner would desire to have sex with the very people responsible for the murder/beheading of her husband, father brother and/or son?

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus."
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: punisher on July 29, 2010, 05:46:03 AM
Rape is obviously always wrong. It isn't about what is better or worse.
A marriage is engaged in by 2 consenting adults.
Do you really believe a 9 year old girl would desire to marry a 52 year old man?
Do you think that is what she would choose?
Do you think a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a 52 year old?

Do you think a female prisoner would desire to have sex with the very people responsible for the murder/beheading of her husband, father brother and/or son?

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

OK freind, What is best Option

1. A man of 52 year old marrying the Girl of 9 or 13 years old

2.  A man of 52 Year old Raping the Girl of 9 or 13 Years old

Your answer

Rape is obviously always wrong. It isn't about what is better or worse.



In raping a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex ????

Hazrat Aisha (Radhiyallahu-Anha) became the Holy Prophet's (Sallallahu-Alayhi-Wasallam) wife in Makkah when she was in the sixth year of her life but her wedding did not take place until the second year after the Hijrah when she was about nine or ten. About her wedding, she related that: "Shortly before she was to leave her parent's house, she slipped out into the courtyard to play with a passing friend. I was playing on a see-saw and my long streaming hair was dishevelled." She further says: "They came and took me from my play and made me ready."

Marriage to the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu-Alayhi-Wasallam) did not change her playful ways. Her young friends came to visit her regularly in her own

Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on July 29, 2010, 05:57:00 AM
Marriage to the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu-Alayhi-Wasallam) did not change her playful ways.

Where does the passage indicate that Aisha was allowed to play with her friends after Mohammed had sex with her?

Her young friends came to visit her regularly in her own

You seem to be suggesting that a 9 year old child would desire to have sex with a 52 year old man, as long as she was still allowed to play with her friends. Did I misunderstand?

Don't you think a 9 year old would prefer to continue to play with her friends, without having to have sex, with a 52 year old man?
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on August 03, 2010, 05:52:20 AM

Where does the passage indicate that Aisha was allowed to play with her friends after Mohammed had sex with her?

You seem to be suggesting that a 9 year old child would desire to have sex with a 52 year old man, as long as she was still allowed to play with her friends. Did I misunderstand?

Don't you think a 9 year old would prefer to continue to play with her friends, without having to have sex, with a 52 year old man?

Important Note: Please pay attention  to the Virgin Mary's (peace be upon her) age.  According to Christian resources, Mary was 12-14 when she had Jesus.

That is not 9 years old, and she wasn't sexually violated by a 52 year old.
Now answer the questions. The rest stays in spam until you begin with succinct answers to the questions.

You will also see proofs from the Jews' Holiest Book, the Talmud, ....

Please see forum decorum. The Jews do not consider the Talmud to even be inspired, let alone their "Holiest Book".
If you lie about Jewish books again, or try quoting the Talmud, you will be banned as per forum rules.

"Posts by non-Jews quoting from the Talmud, or other Hebrew scripture that the Jews themselves do not consider inspired, will be deleted without discussion. Repeat offenses will result in a ban of the poster."

Jews are the only ones allowed to quote from the Talmud in here. Now answer the questions.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on August 03, 2010, 06:10:35 AM
Well, a lot of the things we do today are not right in the eyes of many.  Our "standards" today mean nothing to what took place 1400 years ago.

Certainly Islamic standards even today still copy some of the worst elements of the last 3500 years. From beheading, to imperial conquest and rape of children and prisoners and stealing "spoils of war" to multiple wives - all in an effort to be like Mohammed.

Today, anyone under 18 years old is considered a "child", a baby still under his mommy's and daddy's care.  Back then on the other hand, people who reached the age of 18 were considered wise and very mature.

I am not asking about 18 year olds.
I am not asking about what was done, or what is done today, to women.
I am asking about a human being's right to self-determination, that has been denied to women in Islam, for 1400 years.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=54.0

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/Sa6s36hiLkI/AAAAAAAAHq4/T_05gJXnJFA/s400/Muslim_Marriage.jpg)

I am asking about the desires of a 9 year old girl.

Do you believe a 9 year old girl, of any generation, would DESIRE to be sexually violated by and stuck with, a 52 year old man for a "husband"?

Or is it more likely that she would desire to continue to play with dolls with her friends for a few more years, and then perhaps some day dream about marrying a handsome young man, closer to her own age?

Answer the question, then we'll discuss your answer, and eventually we can move forward with the rest of your post, singling out and discussing each point.
No more spam blizzards, my friend. You must post a single point at a time because of your chronic spamming.
Title: Here is what happens in Afghanistan if a woman wants divorce
Post by: resistingrexmundi on August 06, 2010, 08:57:16 AM
The following is an abridged version of an article that appears in the Aug. 9, 2010, print and iPad editions of TIME magazine.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html

The Taliban pounded on the door just before midnight, demanding that Aisha, 18, be punished for running away from her husband's house. Her in-laws treated her like a slave, Aisha pleaded. They beat her. If she hadn't run away, she would have died. Her judge, a local Taliban commander, was unmoved. Aisha's brother-in-law held her down while her husband pulled out a knife. First he sliced off her ears. Then he started on her nose.

This didn't happen 10 years ago, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan. It happened last year. Now hidden in a secret women's shelter in Kabul, Aisha listens obsessively to the news. Talk that the Afghan government is considering some kind of political accommodation with the Taliban frightens her. "They are the people that did this to me," she says, touching her damaged face. "How can we reconcile with them?"

(http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2010/1007/a_time_cover_0809.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on August 10, 2010, 04:37:14 AM
Compose your replies.
One point at a time.
No more posting on more than one thread at a time until you engage in discussion.
No more copy and pasting for you except from the Quran and Hadith until you reply to responses.
When you arrive in the forum go to the spam category and find the thread dedicated to you (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1500.0). There will be a link to the replies to your posts, that you failed to address the last time you were here.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=55.msg7199#msg7199
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: beebok on October 11, 2010, 09:52:19 PM
Clear proof that Islam holds woman higher than Christianity:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_comparison_full.htm

And as for the woman with her nose cut off, the Taliban condemned that act, and meanwhile Christian US bombs rip women and children to shreds in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and previously in Iraq.

And let us not forget the US soldiers who raped and killed the teenage Iraqi girl, dragged her family out of their house and slaughtered them.
Hardly mentioned in the US media.

There is clearly an attempt to distort Islam and create hatred against Islam and spread ignorance about Islam whereas in reality, Islam holds women much higher and better.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on October 12, 2010, 05:01:30 AM
Hello beebok and welcome to the forum! :)
Starting in with such as strong approach begs a very direct response with which I am willing to oblige.
Please feel free to quote, and chop the following three posts up into small pieces, to make it easier to reply.
(instructions on quoting http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0 )

Clear proof that Islam holds woman higher than Christianity:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_comparison_full.htm

And as for the woman with her nose cut off, .......

My friend, you act as though that's the only incident of violence against women. Try a Google like - islam honor killing (http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=islamic+honor+killings&aq=f&aqi=g-sx1g1g-sx1g-s1g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9f2370386c77b788).
You'll find that Muslim women are being slaughtered all over the world by the hands of their own fathers and brothers. That's because in Islam women are nothing more than property/chattel owned by their fathers (or brothers) and then assigned to the husband that their father or brother chooses. Here's why

"'your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.' (Sura 2:223).

Then the wives have to suffer all their lives under the oppression of a "husband", that is not so much interested in them as he is looking forward toward his sexual escapades with multiple big eyed virgins, in Mohammed's satanic and carnal chicken and wine serving bordello, that he called "paradise".

It's a very different responsibility for Christians than treating our wives like so much farmland "when or how we will"

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

........ the Taliban condemned that act, and meanwhile Christian US bombs rip women and children to shreds in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and previously in Iraq.

(http://www.beholdthebeast.com/2852cf40.jpg)
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1570.0

The U.S. divorced itself from God in 1947 through the Everson decision, that began the "separation of church and state".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1244.0

Regardless of how well-meaning the cause, U.S. government/military misadventure since that divorce - from Korea to Vietnam to the resumption of the war in Iraq (of course it began because Saddam attacked Kuwait and other Arab countries in the area appreciated our initial intervention) - have reflected the divorce (by not finishing the job the first time around in Iraq, for example).

Though I doubt that many Iraqis are sorry that they don't live under Saddam's tyranny any more (except a few in the Sunni minority that oppressed the Shiite majority). Nor the Afghan - particularly women - are sad that they aren't oppressed by the Taliban any more.
Try visiting "Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) (http://www.rawa.org/index.php)"

But unless the evil of Islam itself is wiped out, the future for these poor folks and others, oppressed by reprobates like in Iran and Saudi Arabia, they will all sink back into the same despair, because these poor folks are all filled with the spirit of antichrist through the false prophet Mohammed.

What may be lost on you is the fact that you are cheering on your own, and/or your children's, destruction. Who could be so blind as to not see, that the most violent and reprobate element of Islam, will be it's ultimate arbiter? Do Shiites really believe their lives would be spared - much less be allowed the freedom to practice their religion - in a world run by Sunnis, for example? Yet interestingly, Muslims enjoy more freedom in Israel, than in any Islamic country on earth.
So unless you are prepared to become as murder loving and reprobate as the Taliban - or worse - you (and/or your children) will eventually get your head cut off as an "apostate", by the most reprobate element that emerges from the true followers of Mohammed and Islam's books.

Surah 5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

In the eyes of true Muslims that follow Mohammed through his books, and do as Mohammed did, any Muslim that suggests that Islam is a religion of peace - other than when engaging in taqiyyah (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=351.0) - is a "renegade" waging war against Islam.

(http://www.glennsmart.btinternet.co.uk/lessonplans/taliban1.jpg)

God gave us the tools to fight the evil of Satan with. The Sword of the Spirit.
Eph 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

But our own government collected the bibles up (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,26637,26766&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=government+burned+bibles+afghanistan&cp=36&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=government+burned+bibles+afghanistan&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=9f2370386c77b788) that some of our soldiers had been passing out, and burned them. The exact opposite of the way a Christian nation would approach the war, thus destroying the one true, and most effective, weapon that God gave us to fight the enemy.

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged  sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

For heaven's sake. All we would have to do is leaflet all Islamic countries with the fact that Mecca never existed before the Christian era, prompting Muslims to ask their Imams for archaeological or historical EVIDENCE that suggests that Mecca ever existed before Arab pagans settled it around the early 4th century AD, and built their Kaaba around the early 5th century AD, and Islam would collapse.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm
Or I would at least like to hope that a few of the Muslims that got the leaflet would inquire of their Imams to produce some evidence that Mecca existed before the Christian era. But then they would realize it would get them put on the would-be "apostate" list, and killed.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=567.msg4924#msg4924

Perhaps you can present some evidence of a pre-4th century Mecca for us.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on October 12, 2010, 05:17:55 AM
And let us not forget the US soldiers who raped and killed the teenage Iraqi girl, dragged her family out of their house and slaughtered them.
Hardly mentioned in the US media.

You are asking the wrong questions. Where does the Gospel call for such behavior?

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

But Mohammedanism?
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Mohammed was perhaps the most famous terrorist in all history. That's why everywhere his true followers are we find murder, mayhem and misery. Mohammed raped and sexually enslaved the women of the vanquished.

Quran Sura 33:50-51 "O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ...
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0
Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.msg5864#msg5864
Sahih Muslim Book 8:3431: "It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

Even pimped them out
Sura 24:33:...But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),

So WHEN they don't desire chastity then pimp them out and make some gain! And even if you force them, Mohammed's "Allah" is forgiving! Isn't that a convenient god for a bunch of men that made their living by murdering farmers, sexually enslaving their women, and stealing their property?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=951.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on October 12, 2010, 05:18:39 AM
There is clearly an attempt to distort Islam and create hatred against Islam and spread ignorance about Islam whereas in reality, Islam holds women much higher and better.

My friend one doesn't have to "distort" Mohammed's 7th century religion to understand that Mohammed WAS and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ as revealed through the Gospel.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0

You are correct in suggesting that I hate Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 7th century religion, but the reason is because I love Muslims, and am desperate for Mohammed's followers. That's why I have devoted my life to helping you overcome Mohammed's religion. Islam is exactly and specifically antichrist.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=252.0

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

We can see Satan's fingerprints are all over it because, unlike any other religion, Mohammed taught his followers what to DISbelieve, rather than what to believe. If you don't understand what I am talking about, why don't you tell us who you believe, died on the cross?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=628.0
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: lambfollower on November 17, 2010, 10:51:05 AM
Satan doesn't care who we worship(or do not) as long as it isn't Jesus that we follow, because he hates God and his creation. That is why the anti-Christ, Islam, teaches what NOT to believe. "If you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father." as Jesus said. Any sin is ok as long as it "advances Islam". The reason Muslims lie is because they are to weak to impose their false god. Where Islam is "supreme" they live as did Muhammad without shame or lies bcause it doesn't matter because the have the power to force their version of ant-Christ on the masses. This is one believer who is secure in the Truth.   ;D
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: resistingrexmundi on November 17, 2010, 12:25:07 PM
Satan doesn't care who we worship(or do not) as long as it isn't Jesus that we follow, because he hates God and his creation. That is why the anti-Christ, Islam, teaches what NOT to believe. "If you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father." as Jesus said. Any sin is ok as long as it "advances Islam". The reason Muslims lie is because they are to weak to impose their false god. Where Islam is "supreme" they live as did Muhammad without shame or lies bcause it doesn't matter because the have the power to force their version of ant-Christ on the masses. This is one believer who is secure in the Truth.   ;D

Indeed. Islam is inspired by the very spirit of anti-Christ. Accepting Jesus as God's Son is shirk, the only unforgivable sin in Islam.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on August 11, 2011, 06:22:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=ORLJDaJrc1g

The Muslims are infect facing world wide humiliations for being a violent faith. This is bullsh*t propaganda by the Muslims. A French woman in my country converted to Islam, only to be used for sexual purpose, force to marry many Muslim Malays whom were hungry for her white ass, Currently she resides in a mental hospital Tampoi ,Johor. Malaysia. They use Gods words to cover their sinister acts.

Thepaldio 1 hour ago

http://www.youtube.com/user/Thepaldio
______________________

Is the report credible? Consider the fruit.
What do far east Muslims do each other?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2385.0
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: annazakiya on August 17, 2011, 12:40:04 AM
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/muslim_girl_1.jpg)

" ...... this is a what a typical Muslim woman looks like: Pure, innocent, virgin (until marriage) and non-sexual ........."

 ???
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: Peter on August 17, 2011, 02:07:17 AM

" ...... this is a what a typical Muslim woman looks like: Pure, innocent, virgin (until marriage) and non-sexual ........."

 ???

Perhaps that's about what Aisha looked like when 53 year old Muhammad took her to his bed? Still sporting the baby fat?
Sadly Punisher had a point from the sense that Muslim girls often don't get a chance, to even begin to mature, before their dad forces them to marry the husband of their dad's choice. If her father dies then her brothers decide for her.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on August 19, 2011, 06:50:37 AM
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=5&translator=1&start=0&number=268#268

Bukhari B5 #268 Narrated Qatada: Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).

http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/066.htm
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on September 15, 2011, 09:25:16 AM
I just noticed something funny following the wife beating verse in the Quran

Sura 4.34   Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.   
   35   If you fear a breach between them twain (the man and his wife), appoint (two) arbitrators, one from his family and the other from her's; if they both wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation. Indeed Allah is Ever All-Knower, Well-Acquainted with all things.
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=5#34

Isn't that funny? The guy will pick a male relative from his side, and the wife will pick a female relative from her side ..... errr ...... wait a minute, the female arbitrator's testimony is only worth half what a male's testimony is. Let alone that even if a female arbitrator was picked her husband could simply tell her that if she didn't testify in favor of the husband he would beat her!

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Men are promised virgins and rivers of wine in heaven.  And the promise for women?  Are they perhaps the ones stuck cooking the chicken to top-off a lifetime of abuse, and competing with other wives, on earth?
Mohammed said there is a higher percentage of women in hell because they are not allowed to pray when menstruating, and their deficiency in intelligence is evidenced by his rule that the witness of two women equal the witness of one man.

Sura 24.6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;

Ah Muhammadan jurisprudence! Do you suppose this is part of the sharia law that has been codified into English law? Certainly the daughter only receiving half the inheritance of her brother has.

Sura 2:228 Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

No fooling! I'd say double the witness power qualifies!
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on October 25, 2011, 10:19:26 AM
"They call it female circumcision – an inadequate description of the radical and primitive surgery young girls are  forced to undergo.

The local Imam, when I challenged him about such a barbaric practice, which he justified as a religious and cultural necessity to ensure their purity at marriage, had steely eyes which bored through me. ‘In the not too distant future,’ he intoned, ‘all British girls will be circumcised when Islam rules this country.’"

http://citizensreport.info/2011/07/31/british-imam-claims-all-girls-in-england-will-undergo-female-circumcision/
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: Peter on November 09, 2011, 07:13:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzJIQb841NM
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: PeteWaldo on March 08, 2013, 08:05:55 AM
(disappeared, then restored from database)

Ur society have made women as Show piece, This is not respect my brother, this truly the follow ship of Satan

Let see another image

Its very shameful for whole of Christianity what they have made their women, A tool of Sex, nothing more

and its very shameful for me posting those sinful images ???

But it has nothing to do with Christianity. Show me where it is suggested in the Gospel. If you cannot then by falsely calling it Christian behavior you are exposed as nothing more than a liar for Satan. What you have shown is of the world, and Christians are specifically not of this world.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

The kingdoms of this world, from which your images come, are Satan's kingdoms. That's why Mohammedan Islam has lusted after Satan's kingdoms for 1400 years. Because Islam is of Satan - Satan's followers through the false prophet Mohammed.

Hey, but then what could show more "respect" for women, than raping them after slaughtering their fathers, husbands and sons?

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1263.msg5864#msg5864

Rape of prisoners as specifically condoned by Mohammed's phony god "Allah".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

Brother hope soon ur society will realize that Islam has respected women in every aspect of life?????

Soon u will See

Mark my words

In not a single aspect are women respected in Islam. From being treated as chattel by being assigned to some creep for life - because their father wanted it - at pain of death through an "honor" killing if they don't comply.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=54.0

To a 7th century illiterate that himself was too mentally challenged to learn how to read, actually calling women, "deficient in intelligence". Indeed even slaughtering a literate female poet who wrote poetry about Mohammed's ridiculous pseudo-religious sham.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=127.0

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:... "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, ".... I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you."... The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence."

Your taqiyyah won't fly here my friend, as also shown in the original post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

Sura 2:223 your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm
   
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: PeteWaldo on March 08, 2013, 08:11:45 AM
(disappeared then restored from database)

......
Slavery and child abuse is common place in the Church (Catholic and Protestant)
In the East (bangkok) Slavery and child abuse by western visitors has balloned the industry 1000 fold in recent years

What you have reduced yourself to now is the classic Muslim fallback of pretending that all non-Muslims are Christians.

Would you like me to continue?

What I would like is for you to quit ignoring the replies that I have patiently placed on your comments.

The Problems amongst disbelievers and Christians make Islamic transgressions look like childsplay,

Before you characterize a behavior as "Christian" you are first going to have to show us where, in the Gospel, Christians are instructed to do any of what you claim Christians do.
I have shown you what Mohammed's Allah instructed in regard to raping captives, and pimping out one's sex slaves in the original post that you have yet to refute.

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.""

Real nice bunch of guys, huh? Rape of, and fornication with, captives, CODIFIED into Mohammed's religion and practiced all over Mohammedan Africa today.

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes" one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Please do not act out of Ignorance take the beam out of your own eye.

Repent and turn to ALLAH for guidance.

I'm sorry but you have failed miserably to make any kind of case for Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 7th century religion. And I have shown that Muslims must first empty their minds of history, archaeology, geography and particularly scripture, until their intellect becomes that of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate, in order to follow THE false prophet Mohammed.
All you've proven through your unsupported outbursts in here is that you don't know much more about Islam than you do Christianity.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That false prophet isn't the tooth fairy, my poor, deluded friend. Forever is a very long time.
   
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: PeteWaldo on March 08, 2013, 08:30:55 AM
(disappeared then restored from database)


Now #2

We know that Mohammed and the boys raped young girls, unless of course, you are willing to suggest that a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a dirty old lecher simply because he declared he was married to her.

I don't know please provide the detail from authentic source

Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.

Surely you aren't going to try to deny that Mohammed "married" Aisha when she was 6, and that 52 year old Mohammed had sex with Aisha (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&amp;q=aisha+9+years+old+sex&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=&amp;aql=&amp;oq=&amp;gs_rfai=&amp;pbx=1&amp;fp=319ac6396ab57d1b) when she was only 9 years old!
Regarding your request for "authentic source".

http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm
1. Sahih al-Bukhari 810-870 A.D. 256 A.H.

1a. "Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.236 p.153.

1b. The same points are in Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.234 p.152.

1c. "Narrated ‘Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six year old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.60 no.88 p.65

1d. Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet was screening me with his Rida' (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect. Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.115 no.163 p.119

1e. "Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam), and (I don't remember) a single day passing without our being visited by Allah’s Apostle in the morning and in the evening." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.44 no.245 p.158. Thus ‘Aisha was either not very old or not born yet when her parents became Muslims. This is consistent with her being a child when her marriage with Mohammed was consummated.

2. Sahih Muslim 817-875 A.D. 261 A.H.

This is generally considered the second most reliable collection of hadiths.

2a. "(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She too hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.&quot; Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3309 p.715-716

2b. &quot;(3310) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

(3311) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married here when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and here dolls were with her: and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3310,3311 p.716.

2c. &quot;(5981) ’A’isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), whereas Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent them to her.

2d. (5982) This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Hisham with the same chain of transmitters with a slight variation of wording.&quot; Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 29 ch.1005 no.5981-5982 p.1299

3. Sunan Abu Dawud 817-888/9 A.D. 275 A.H.

3a. &quot;(2116) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said : Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.&quot; Sunan Abu Dawud vol.2 book 5 ch.700 no.2116 p.569

3b. "(4913) ‘A’ishah said : I used to play with dolls. Sometimes the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon me when the girls were with me. When he came in, they went out, and when he went out, they came in." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1769 no.4913 p.1373

Note carefully this is NOT saying Mohammed had intercourse with A’isha while her playmates were watching. Rather it says the playmates played with her, and they went out when Mohammed came by, and could come back after he left.

3c. &quot;(4915) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Abu Dawud said : That is to say : I menstruated, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari (Helpers) in it. They said : With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915 p.1374

3d. (5916) [typo, really 4916] The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Abu Usamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: ‘With good fortune.’ She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4916 p.1374

3e. (4917) ‘A’ishah said: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were [sp] up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4917 p.1374

3f. (4918) The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Hisham b. ‘Urwah through a different chain of narrators. This version adds: I was swinging and I had my friends. They brought me to a house ; there were some women of the Ansar (Helpers). They said : With good luck and blessing. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4918 p.1374

3g. (4919) ‘A’ishah said : We came to Medina and stayed with Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. She said : I swear by Allah, I was swinging between two date-palms. Then my mother came, and made me come down; and I had my hair up to the ears. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915-4919 p.1374.

Conclusion on Abu Dawud: 7 references and no counter-references affirm that A’isha was nine.

4. Tirmidhi 825-892 A.D. 209-279 A.H.

"..Ahmad and Is'haq said that if a female orphan reaches nine years old and was wed with her consent, then the marriage is permissible and she will have no choice when she matures. The two relied on a hadith by Ai'sha stating that the prophet peace be upon him had sexual relations with her when she was nine. Aisha said, if the little girl reaches nine then she is a woman&quot; Tirmidhi said: A good hadith. (Tirmidhi, "Marriage according to Allah's apostle", #1027)

5. Sunan Nas’ai 830-915 A.D. 215-303 A.H.

5a. A'shah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was six and had intercourse with her when she was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3255)

5b. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was seven and had intercourse with me when I was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

5c. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was nine and I accompanied him for nine years. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3257)

5d. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was nine and died when she was eighteen. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3258)

5e. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was six and had intercourse with me when I was nine and I was playing with dolls. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

Note that the previous are in original Arabic, but were not in the English translation. However, the English translator at the front wrote the following under #18.

"When Hadrat "A'isha passed nine years of married life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness. On the 9th or the 12th of Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 A.H., he left this mortal world…Hadrat "A'isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven." Sunan Nasa’i vol.1 #18 p.108-109 (English material at the front)

Note that she had nine years of married life with Mohammed, and since he died when she was eighteen, she was nine years old when she started her married life with Mohammed.
Conclusion on Sunan Nasa'i: Not counting English translation notes, the Arabic has 5 references and no counter-references to affirm that A’isha was nine.

6. Ibn-i-Majah 824-886/887 A.D. 273 A.H.

6a. A’isha was married when she was six years old, and nine when she went to Mohammed’s house. Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1876 p.133

6b. A’isha was married at seven, went to Mohammed’s house at nine, and was 18 when Mohammed died. According to al-Zawa’id, its isnad is sahih according to the condition of Bukhari. However Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father, so it is munqata (has a gap) Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1877 p.134.

7. The Historian ibn Ishaq - died 767/773 A.D. 145/151 A.H.

7a. &quot;Yahya b. Abbad b. Abdullah b. al-Zubayr from his father told me that he heard Aisha say: "The apostle died in my bosom during my turn: I had wronged none in regard to him. It was due to my ignorance and extreme youth that the apostle died in my arms."
(Guillaume, A., The Life of Muhammad, a translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, Oxford University Press, Karachi, Pakistan, page 682). A’isha said she was an extreme youth when Mohammed died.

8. The Historian al-Tabari - died 923 A.D.

8a. ‘Aisha was 6 (or 7) years old when she was married, and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.9 p.129-131. Muhammad b. ‘Amr is one of the transmitters.

8b. ‘Aisha was 6-7 when married, and the marriage was consummated when she was 9-10, three months after coming to Mecca al-Tabari vol.7 p.7. The chain of transmission includes an unnamed man from the Quraysh.

8c. Aisha died in June-July 678 A.D. (A.H. 58) at the age of 66. That would make her born in 610 A.D.. al-Tabari says she consummated her marriage with the prophet when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.39 p.171,173. (al-Tabari wrote 38 volumes of history, plus a 39th volume called Biographies of the Prophet’s Companions and Their Successors.)

X 8c. On the other hand, al-Tabari also wrote that i.e. "All four of his [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period." (Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, vol.4, p.50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979. al-Tabari vol.11 p.141 also mentions this, with footnote 766 saying al-Tabari has a conflict here. The footnote also says that al-Baladhuri’s Ansab I, p.409-411; Ibn Hajar’s Isabah IV, p.359-360 supports her being married by 9 years old.

Majority Muslim Explanations

There are two basic categories of answers Muslims have for this: the majority agree that these hadiths are reliable here, and a minority disagree.

The majority view affirms the reliability of these hadiths. If the hadiths and historians are to be trusted, then Mohammed, at around 53 years old, did have sex with a nine year old girl. As one Muslim told me "… and I bet A’isha was the happiest nine-year old girl in the world".

In 2005, the following defunct web page also said this, and also accused liberal Muslims of catering to western morality and denying the truth. http: // admin.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Polemics/aishah.html

Footnote 1958 on p.715 says in part: &quot;According to Imam Shafi’i, marriage in childhood is not something appreciable. It was under some exceptional circumstances that Hadrat ‘A’isha was married to the Prophet (may peace be upon him). The second point to be noted is that Islam has laid down no age limit for puberty for it varies with countries and races due to climate, hereditary, physical and social conditions. Those who live in cold regions attain puberty at a much later age as compared with those living in hot regions where both male and female attain it at a quite early age. "The average temperature of the country or province,’ says the well-known authors of the book Woman, "is considered the chief factor here, not only with regard to menstruation but as regards the whole of sexual development at puberty. … Similarly, the author of Kinsey Report states: ‘The incidence of pre-adolescent sex play at particular ages (active incidence) seems to have been highest in the younger age groups. Some eight per cent of the females in the sample recalled pre-adolescent hetero-sexual play at ages five and seven&quot; (Alfred C. Kinsey and Others, Sexual Behaviour in the Human Female, p.110)" -- All of this was quoted from Sahih Muslim vol.2 footnote 1958 p.715.

The translator of Sahih Muslim vol.2 gives an explanation in footnote 1960 on p.716. &quot;The Holy Prophet’s (may peace be upon him) marriage with ‘A’isha has been criticized by the Western critics. It is, however, strange that contemporary critics of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) who leveled all kinds of charges against him did not make any mention, not in the least, of this marriage. It should be borne in mind that, like all acts of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), even this marriage had a Divine purpose behind it. Hadrat ‘A’isha was a precocious girl and was developing both in mind and body with rapidity peculiar to such rare personalities. She was admitted to the house of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) just at the threshold of her puberty, the most impressionable and formative period of her life. … Even from the psycho-sexual standpoint it was a happy union as it is evident from the records of the Hadith. ‘When the difference (in ages),’ says Von De Velde, Director of the Gynaeological [sp] Clinic at Harlem [New York?], ‘is great, e.g. exceeds fifteen or twenty years, the results may be happier. The marriage of an elderly (senescent) - not, of course an old (senile) - man to a quite young girl, is often very successful and harmonious The bride is immediately introduced and accustomed to moderate sexual intercourse" (Ideal Marriage, Its Psychology and Technique, London, 1962 p.243).&quot; Sahih Muslim vol.2 p.716.

Certainly nothing's changed regarding filthy old lechers doing children (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&amp;q=child%20brides%20islam&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;source=og&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wi&amp;biw=1152&amp;bih=549) in Islam.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/Sa6s36hiLkI/AAAAAAAAHq4/T_05gJXnJFA/s400/Muslim_Marriage.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4511959775_491985f36f.jpg)
   
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: PeteWaldo on March 08, 2013, 08:33:57 AM
2. Then after that you can show us where God condones that behavior for priests.

Little wonder why we hear from the media about Priests that are in involved with Pedophilic acts. However, from where these Priests inspire to do such acts? The answer is that they inspire from Bible. Actually, Pedophilia was born from this book of perversion. Let us see some passages that clearly support Pedophilia and Rape of preteen girls

Numbers 31: 17-18

 17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

The Jewish soldiers were commanded by “God” in the bible to keep the woman children (little girls) for themselves! In addition, they commanded to kill every woman that hath know a man by lying with him. How these soldiers in those days know if the girls are virgin or not? Simply they verify it by raping them and if the Jews discovered that they are non-virgins then they kill them as they commanded by “God”.

I suppose that would be the only solution in the mind of a male Muslim since that's what Mohammed and his boys did IN THE 7TH CENTURY.
It wouldn't occur to you that they would be asked, or verify by whether they had children or not.
But where in this record of a historical event of a few thousand years ago does it instruct Christian priests to molest children?
   
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: PeteWaldo on March 08, 2013, 08:37:13 AM
(disappeared then restored from database)


Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.


Can u please Tell

IS Marrying Mean Rape

Which is Better Raping the Girl of 13 Year or Marry Her?

Are Marrying and Raping Equal To You?


Rape is obviously always wrong. It isn't about what is better or worse.
A marriage is engaged in by 2 consenting adults.
Do you really believe a 9 year old girl would desire to marry a 52 year old man?
Do you think that is what she would choose?
Do you think a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a 52 year old?
Do you think a female prisoner would desire to have sex with the very people responsible for the murder/beheading of her husband, father brother and/or son?

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus."
   
Title: Re: Comparison between two groups of women
Post by: PeteWaldo on March 08, 2013, 08:51:22 AM
(disappeared then restored from database)


Now #2

We know that Mohammed and the boys raped young girls, unless of course, you are willing to suggest that a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a dirty old lecher simply because he declared he was married to her.

I don't know please provide the detail from authentic source

Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.

Surely you aren't going to try to deny that Mohammed "married" Aisha when she was 6, and that 52 year old Mohammed had sex with Aisha (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&amp;q=aisha+9+years+old+sex&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=&amp;aql=&amp;oq=&amp;gs_rfai=&amp;pbx=1&amp;fp=319ac6396ab57d1b) when she was only 9 years old!
Regarding your request for "authentic source".

http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm
1. Sahih al-Bukhari 810-870 A.D. 256 A.H.

1a. "Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.236 p.153.

1b. The same points are in Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.234 p.152.

1c. &quot;Narrated ‘Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six year old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.60 no.88 p.65

1d. Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet was screening me with his Rida' (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect. Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.115 no.163 p.119

1e. "Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam), and (I don't remember) a single day passing without our being visited by Allah’s Apostle in the morning and in the evening." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.44 no.245 p.158. Thus ‘Aisha was either not very old or not born yet when her parents became Muslims. This is consistent with her being a child when her marriage with Mohammed was consummated.

2. Sahih Muslim 817-875 A.D. 261 A.H.

This is generally considered the second most reliable collection of hadiths.

2a. "(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She too hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3309 p.715-716

2b. &quot;(3310) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

(3311) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married here when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and here dolls were with her: and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.&quot; Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3310,3311 p.716.

2c. &quot;(5981) ’A’isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), whereas Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent them to her.

2d. (5982) This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Hisham with the same chain of transmitters with a slight variation of wording." Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 29 ch.1005 no.5981-5982 p.1299

3. Sunan Abu Dawud 817-888/9 A.D. 275 A.H.

3a. "(2116) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said : Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.2 book 5 ch.700 no.2116 p.569

3b. &quot;(4913) ‘A’ishah said : I used to play with dolls. Sometimes the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon me when the girls were with me. When he came in, they went out, and when he went out, they came in." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1769 no.4913 p.1373

Note carefully this is NOT saying Mohammed had intercourse with A’isha while her playmates were watching. Rather it says the playmates played with her, and they went out when Mohammed came by, and could come back after he left.

3c. "(4915) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Abu Dawud said : That is to say : I menstruated, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari (Helpers) in it. They said : With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915 p.1374

3d. (5916) [typo, really 4916] The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Abu Usamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: ‘With good fortune.’ She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4916 p.1374

3e. (4917) ‘A’ishah said: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were [sp] up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4917 p.1374

3f. (4918) The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Hisham b. ‘Urwah through a different chain of narrators. This version adds: I was swinging and I had my friends. They brought me to a house ; there were some women of the Ansar (Helpers). They said : With good luck and blessing. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4918 p.1374

3g. (4919) ‘A’ishah said : We came to Medina and stayed with Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. She said : I swear by Allah, I was swinging between two date-palms. Then my mother came, and made me come down; and I had my hair up to the ears. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition.&quot; Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915-4919 p.1374.

Conclusion on Abu Dawud: 7 references and no counter-references affirm that A’isha was nine.

4. Tirmidhi 825-892 A.D. 209-279 A.H.

"..Ahmad and Is'haq said that if a female orphan reaches nine years old and was wed with her consent, then the marriage is permissible and she will have no choice when she matures. The two relied on a hadith by Ai'sha stating that the prophet peace be upon him had sexual relations with her when she was nine. Aisha said, if the little girl reaches nine then she is a woman" Tirmidhi said: A good hadith. (Tirmidhi, "Marriage according to Allah's apostle", #1027)

5. Sunan Nas’ai 830-915 A.D. 215-303 A.H.

5a. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was six and had intercourse with her when she was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3255)

5b. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was seven and had intercourse with me when I was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

5c. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was nine and I accompanied him for nine years. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3257)

5d. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was nine and died when she was eighteen. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3258)

5e. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was six and had intercourse with me when I was nine and I was playing with dolls. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

Note that the previous are in original Arabic, but were not in the English translation. However, the English translator at the front wrote the following under #18.

"When Hadrat A'isha passed nine years of married life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness. On the 9th or the 12th of Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 A.H., he left this mortal world…Hadrat A'isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven.&quot; Sunan Nasa’i vol.1 #18 p.108-109 (English material at the front)

Note that she had nine years of married life with Mohammed, and since he died when she was eighteen, she was nine years old when she started her married life with Mohammed.
Conclusion on Sunan Nasa'i: Not counting English translation notes, the Arabic has 5 references and no counter-references to affirm that A’isha was nine.

6. Ibn-i-Majah 824-886/887 A.D. 273 A.H.

6a. A’isha was married when she was six years old, and nine when she went to Mohammed’s house. Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1876 p.133

6b. A’isha was married at seven, went to Mohammed’s house at nine, and was 18 when Mohammed died. According to al-Zawa’id, its isnad is sahih according to the condition of Bukhari. However Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father, so it is munqata (has a gap) Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1877 p.134.

7. The Historian ibn Ishaq - died 767/773 A.D. 145/151 A.H.

7a. "Yahya b. Abbad b. Abdullah b. al-Zubayr from his father told me that he heard Aisha say: "The apostle died in my bosom during my turn: I had wronged none in regard to him. It was due to my ignorance and extreme youth that the apostle died in my arms."
(Guillaume, A., The Life of Muhammad, a translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, Oxford University Press, Karachi, Pakistan, page 682). A’isha said she was an extreme youth when Mohammed died.

8. The Historian al-Tabari - died 923 A.D.

8a. ‘Aisha was 6 (or 7) years old when she was married, and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.9 p.129-131. Muhammad b. ‘Amr is one of the transmitters.

8b. ‘Aisha was 6-7 when married, and the marriage was consummated when she was 9-10, three months after coming to Mecca al-Tabari vol.7 p.7. The chain of transmission includes an unnamed man from the Quraysh.

8c. Aisha died in June-July 678 A.D. (A.H. 58) at the age of 66. That would make her born in 610 A.D.. al-Tabari says she consummated her marriage with the prophet when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.39 p.171,173. (al-Tabari wrote 38 volumes of history, plus a 39th volume called Biographies of the Prophet’s Companions and Their Successors.)

X 8c. On the other hand, al-Tabari also wrote that i.e. "All four of his [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period." (Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, vol.4, p.50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979. al-Tabari vol.11 p.141 also mentions this, with footnote 766 saying al-Tabari has a conflict here. The footnote also says that al-Baladhuri’s Ansab I, p.409-411; Ibn Hajar’s Isabah IV, p.359-360 supports her being married by 9 years old.

Majority Muslim Explanations

There are two basic categories of answers Muslims have for this: the majority agree that these hadiths are reliable here, and a minority disagree.

The majority view affirms the reliability of these hadiths. If the hadiths and historians are to be trusted, then Mohammed, at around 53 years old, did have sex with a nine year old girl. As one Muslim told me "… and I bet A’isha was the happiest nine-year old girl in the world".

In 2005, the following defunct web page also said this, and also accused liberal Muslims of catering to western morality and denying the truth. http: // admin.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Polemics/aishah.html
Footnote 1958 on p.715 says in part: "According to Imam Shafi’i, marriage in childhood is not something appreciable. It was under some exceptional circumstances that Hadrat ‘A’isha was married to the Prophet (may peace be upon him). The second point to be noted is that Islam has laid down no age limit for puberty for it varies with countries and races due to climate, hereditary, physical and social conditions. Those who live in cold regions attain puberty at a much later age as compared with those living in hot regions where both male and female attain it at a quite early age. "The average temperature of the country or province,’ says the well-known authors of the book Woman, "is considered the chief factor here, not only with regard to menstruation but as regards the whole of sexual development at puberty. … Similarly, the author of Kinsey Report states: ‘The incidence of pre-adolescent sex play at particular ages (active incidence) seems to have been highest in the younger age groups. Some eight per cent of the females in the sample recalled pre-adolescent hetero-sexual play at ages five and seven&quot; (Alfred C. Kinsey and Others, Sexual Behaviour in the Human Female, p.110)" -- All of this was quoted from Sahih Muslim vol.2 footnote 1958 p.715.

The translator of Sahih Muslim vol.2 gives an explanation in footnote 1960 on p.716. "The Holy Prophet’s (may peace be upon him) marriage with ‘A’isha has been criticized by the Western critics. It is, however, strange that contemporary critics of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) who leveled all kinds of charges against him did not make any mention, not in the least, of this marriage. It should be borne in mind that, like all acts of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), even this marriage had a Divine purpose behind it. Hadrat ‘A’isha was a precocious girl and was developing both in mind and body with rapidity peculiar to such rare personalities. She was admitted to the house of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) just at the threshold of her puberty, the most impressionable and formative period of her life. … Even from the psycho-sexual standpoint it was a happy union as it is evident from the records of the Hadith. ‘When the difference (in ages),’ says Von De Velde, Director of the Gynaeological [sp] Clinic at Harlem [New York?], ‘is great, e.g. exceeds fifteen or twenty years, the results may be happier. The marriage of an elderly (senescent) - not, of course an old (senile) - man to a quite young girl, is often very successful and harmonious The bride is immediately introduced and accustomed to moderate sexual intercourse" (Ideal Marriage, Its Psychology and Technique, London, 1962 p.243).&quot; Sahih Muslim vol.2 p.716.

Certainly nothing's changed regarding filthy old lechers doing children (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&amp;q=child%20brides%20islam&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;source=og&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wi&amp;biw=1152&amp;bih=549) in Islam.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/Sa6s36hiLkI/AAAAAAAAHq4/T_05gJXnJFA/s400/Muslim_Marriage.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4511959775_491985f36f.jpg)
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: PeteWaldo on December 26, 2013, 02:03:03 PM
(1) Narrated 'Ikrima: Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"  (Book #72, Hadith #715)
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: PeteWaldo on February 10, 2014, 02:23:04 PM
THE ISLAMIC AGE OF CONSENT
http://pickeringpost.com/story/the-islamic-age-of-consent/2746
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: PeteWaldo on July 22, 2014, 02:04:01 PM
This is from a M.D. at Hadassah Hospital in Israel, Dr. Arieh Eldad:

The (Muslim) Arab Mentality...

It is really hard for western society to understand this kind of thinking. It is counter to civilized understanding. The (Muslim) Arab Mentality...

I was instrumental in establishing the Israeli National Skin Bank, which is the largest in the world. The National Skin Bank stores skin for every day needs as well as for war time or mass casualty situations. The skin bank is hosted at the Hadassah Ein Kerem University hospital in Jerusalem where I was the Chairman of plastic surgery. This is how I was asked to supply skin for an (Muslim) Arab woman from Gaza, who was hospitalized in Soroka Hospital in Beersheva, after her family burned her. Usually, such atrocities happen among (Muslim) Arab families when the women are suspected of having an affair.
 
We supplied all the needed Homograft for her treatment. She was successfully treated by my friend and colleague, Prof. Lior Rosenberg and discharged to return to Gaza. She was invited for regular follow-up visits to the outpatient clinic in Beersheva.

One day she was caught at a border crossing wearing a suicide belt. Her mission was to explode herself in the outpatient clinic of the hospital where they saved her life. It seems that her family promised her that if she did that, they would forgive her. This is only one example of the war between Jews and Muslims in the Land of Israel. It is not a territorial conflict. This is a civilizational conflict, or rather a war between civilization and barbarism. Bibi (Netanyahu) gets it, Obama does not.

I have never written before asking to please forward onwards, so that as many as possible can understand radical Islam and what awaits the world if it is not stopped.

-Dr. Arieh Eldad
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: kometa2 on September 26, 2014, 05:05:28 AM
islam is a living  hell on earth for women.
Muslims say women are respected in islam. But when you read koran you see allah commands to beat wives if they dont obey (4;34), he degraded women by polygamy, dehumanizes them by hijab, calls them unclean, inferrior and less intelligent, tells men to rule women, allows temporal marriages and marrying children, circumcision and honor killing. And you still say women are respected? They are not, islam treats women as animals.

instead of islam teach men to grow up and take responsibility for their lives and actions islam blames women for all men's problems and lusts. this way men are made weak and immature and women are demonized and dehumanized as the root problem of all evil. no wonder islam treats them as cattle and men's property

Islam does not consider rape to be a crime against a woman. It is a crime against their fathers and husbands. In a tribal society, rape is a crime against property and honor. To a father, his daughter's virginity is a valuable item that increases her market value. Marrying her off is way to build a relationship between two families. To a husband, his wife's chastity maintains the value of his property and insures that the offspring is his. To assault a woman is to commit a crime against the communal property of a family. But a woman herself has no rights over her body that any man is bound to respect.

If Allah existed only to enable women to sexually service Mohammed-- what agency can women have in Islam?Muslim rape culture springs from that same code. A code that exists to please and flatter the Muslim male and demean the female as an inferior specimen, whose body is filth, whose form is corruption and who can only be good to the extent that she becomes a non-person. Remaining quiet and out of sight. It begins with the inferiority of women, and ends with a paradise filled with eternal virgins who can never say no.

we dont see true islam in the west. Men cant marry a child or have more than 1 wife nor beat his wife or they would go to jail for it. BUT the things that are evil and immoral  in the west are allowed and practiced in all islamic nations. In the west islam is polished and civilized. Muslims cant stone, behead or cut off hands or feet and such is the true face of islam! BUT the true God is love, holiness and forgiveness, not abuse, discrimination and immorality as alah is.
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: PeteWaldo on September 26, 2014, 06:23:33 AM
Thank you for that kometa2. Would you happen to be a former Muslim, or are you from a Muslim controlled country (though that would increasingly describe the U.S. as well!)?
Title: Re: Islam and Women
Post by: PeteWaldo on November 30, 2014, 04:53:37 AM
Rape and the Islamic Doctrine That Allows It

http://www.israelislamandendtimes.com/rape-islamic-doctrine-allows/