Islam and Women

[Peter]

http://www.beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm

Tabari I:280 "Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of the world menstruate and are stupid."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1130.msg9627#msg9627

"A woman's paradise is under her husband's foot." (video)

Honor your wife with a good old fashioned beating!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChnpaMK1oLQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASlin_9Bekw

"'your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.' (Sura 2:223).
To say that wives must be passive partners is an understatement." - from "Islam Reviewed"

Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not...

"...Neither shall he regard ..... the desire of women......" Some don't find Mohammed a fit for this ruler  "type", because "...he shall magnify himself above all...", confusing what Mohammed claimed, with the reality of what Mohammed accomplished. He indeed magnified himself above all because Muslims must necessarily reject the 1600 year record that God delivered through ALL of His prophets and witnesses, that His people have followed for 3500 years, to follow Mohammed's stand-alone, 23 year, 7th century "religion". They follow Mohammed and for no other reason than because Mohammed told his largely illiterate followers to follow him.

"The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men." - Sir Winston Churchill

Mohammed and his men sexually enslaved women taken as spoils of war ("booty") with Allah's blessing. Mohammed was even given a special "revelation" allowing him all the wives and concubines he wanted - but only for him.  The believers at large are still allowed four wives plus concubines. But then all it takes for a man to divorce under sharia law is for him to say "I divorce you" three times. In Saudi Arabia and Malaysia, a husband can divorce by text message.

Here's Mohammed's god's answer to a woman with the classic "headache"...

Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Number 3368: Abu Huraira (Allah he pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may, peace be upon him) as saying: When a man invites his wife to his bed and she does not come, and he (the husband) spends the night being angry with her, the angels curse her until morning.

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess; - in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. (Sura 33:50-51) - Yusuf Ali translation from M. Ali - Islam Reviewed (free book at the link)

Including still-married women:

Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:...

(Sahih Muslim) Book 8:3431: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 522: Narrated Anas bin Malik:
We arrived at Khaibar, and when Allah helped His Apostle to open the fort, the beauty of Safiya bint Huyai bin Akhtaq whose husband had been killed while she was a bride, was mentioned to Allah's Apostle. The Prophet selected her for himself.....
24: ...The Muslims said amongst themselves, "Will she (i.e. Safiya) be one of the mothers of the believers, (i.e. one of the wives of the Prophet ) or just (a lady captive) of what his right-hand possesses" Some of them said, "If the Prophet makes her observe the veil, then she will be one of the mothers of the believers (i.e. one of the Prophet's wives), and if he does not make her observe the veil, then she will be his lady slave.".....

It should be painfully obvious, at least to a sane and rational person, that the only way that the capture and sexual assault of women as spoils of war, could be described as something other than rape, is if the woman or girl whose husband or whole family had been slaughtered by Mohammed and his men, would then be pleased to have sexual intercourse with her murderous captor.

Sura 23.1 The believers must (eventually) win through,- 2 Those ....
5 Who abstain from sex, 6 Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,

In other words, those who fornicate with captured sex slaves, are free from blame in Allah's view.

Sura 24:33:...But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),

So when they don't desire chastity, pimp them out and make a gain. Perhaps because she wants to share in the cash or maybe get some distance from her filthy captor for a little while.
But then even if you compel them, Allah is forgiving!
Pretty convenient god for an army of imperialistic, conquering, murdering thieves.

[edit add 6-15-11] Muhammad married a 6 year old child, and when he was 53 years old he had sex with her when she was just a 9 year old child. Thus his followers believe themselves licensed to do the same unto today.
Please see the Aisha thread for more on Muhammad's child bride.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=769.0

[edit add this headline and two photos on 9-26-14] Following is a picture of:  ".....an eight year old child bride died in Yemen on her wedding night after suffering internal injuries due to sexual trauma." (by her 40-year-old husband) (link to article)





Since Muhammad was into inbreeding, his followers have no choice but to condone marrying first cousins today.

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God, has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts..."

Please see the thread on the devastating health consequences among Muslims, as reported by their own governments, on that thread. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.0 [end edit add 6-15-11]

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

But what about countries that are 100% Muslim where everyone is ruled under the perfection of Islamic sharia law? (and increasingly elsewhere (video)) In Saudia Arabia 15 girls were killed because Islamic religious police sent them back into a burning school for trying to emerge from the burning building without head coverings.
"The English-language Saudi Gazette, in a front-page report yesterday quoted witnesses as saying that members of the religious police stopped men who tried to help the girls escape from the building, saying: 'It is sinful to approach them.'"
"A civil defence officer told an Arabic-language newspaper, al-Eqtisadiah, that he saw three members of the religious police "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya"."

Video: The Violent Oppression of Women in Islam
YouTube Video search: islam honor killing - islam honour killing.

If a Muslim woman has the misfortune of being raped, she is beaten for it if she is lucky, or killed by her family if a relative decides to rescue his or his family's "honor". In these killings, the more heinous the method of killing, the greater the rescue of "honor". If you are an "infidel", or a Muslim for that matter, that is considering marriage to an Islamic man, read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somalian - raised Muslim.
YouTube of an Islamic offical on the subject of rape.

Mohammed's wives

Explore websites and material that discuss women's roles and rights in Islam like "The Position of Women in Islam" by Hamdun Dagher

There are lots of videos, in Muslims own words, available at MEMRI TV. Select one of the "Featured Subjects", such as "Women's Rights" or "Indoctrination of Children".

Sura 2:282 "...if the two be not men, then one man and two women, such witnesses as you approve of, that if one of the two women errs the other will remind her..."

In this video we find it takes the testimony of 4 women to bring an allegation of rape against a man.

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Men are promised loads of virgins and rivers of wine in heaven.  And the promise for women?  Mohammed said there is a higher percentage of women in hell because they are not allowed to pray when menstruating, and because of their deficiency in intelligence.

Sura 24.6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;

Good luck with that ladies!

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 28:  Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
  The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you."

Here are a lot of free books regarding Islam.

M. Ali on the status of women in Islam. 

Video of a Saudi woman:  "Saudi society is based on Masters and slaves....To be more precise masters and maids... masters are the men and slaves are the women.... The ownership of a woman is passed from one man to another.... from the father or the brother, to another man, the husband."

"Two million Muslim women beaten ..... in France!  So what goes on in the Arab world?  Total isolation." (video)

Sura (4:34) - Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.



Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her.  Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing.  Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Wife beating in Islam

Does Islam liberate women? (video)
Wife Beating in Islam - No more than 10 blows! (video) 

I have yet to witness a single discussion among Muslim men regarding the psychological devistation suffered by their women that are beaten. The only discussion revolves around how hard to hit them.



Sura 2:228 Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

Perhaps we see the exercise of that "degree (of advantage)" in the photo above, besides men only needing to say "I divorce you" three times to have it done and moving immediately on to the next.

Muslim "Honor" Killings (video)
Anyone who believes Afghanistan is improving while still under Islamic control should visit:  Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) 

"Two years ago, the father of Samia raped a 10 year old daughter of Mohammad Yassin in Baghlan province in northern Afghanistan. When he was arrested, according to the customs of that area which are called "Bad", he is asked to give his daughter to a son of Mohammad Yassin, so the issue could be settled. He gives Samia to Mohammad Omer (son of M. Yassin) to marry.

Then Samia is taken to the house of M. Yassin where she is regarded as a slave and for two long years experiences every kind of torture and discrimination. The family daily beat the innocent child and locked her down in a dark basement. They injured her body by using hot metal pieces, pulled her hair, kept her naked and force her to stay outside in the freezing weather for hours and many other such bestial punishments."



http://www.rawa.org/samia.htm

"Once again, women are the targets. In mid-March, rebels assaulted three women gathering firewood and cut off their ears, lips, and breasts." 
"Starting in 2003, Janjaweed Arabs, a Sudan-backed militia, have driven 2 million villagers from their homes in ethnic-cleansing attacks designed to suppress local rebels."

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Under sharia law if an Muslim man says to one of his four wives "I divorce you", three times, he can move on to the next. She is out in the street. One day marriages are also acceptable for some.

For women it's a somewhat different matter. If a woman is caught in an adulterous relationship she is subject to being stoned:



Or may be hanged:



The slaughter of human rights under Islam.
How about children?

FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION (FGM)

"Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women."
Try a Yahoo search for female circumcision, also known as female genital mutilation, or FGM.  This is a punishment in Saudi Arabia for prostitution, and this procedure is practiced in much of Africa on children, but today even in Britan, and in the United States.  "Why does FGM occur in the United States?"
Video of women speaking about female circumcision. Try YouTube searches
"For the first time ever, there is a criminal case in the United States stemming from Female Genital Mutilation - the practice of "circumcising" a female infant or toddler." ... Adem, currently out on bond, is charged with aggravated assault and cruelty to children under Georgia law, both of which have the component of malicious intent. 'There is no malicious intent if you are from a practicing community,'"  Perhaps coming to a "practicing community" near you soon.

"In a law court, the testimony of a man is equal to that of  two women. If a family inheritance is involved, a female beneficiary always receives less than a male. In fact, the Koran directs:  "To the male a portion equal to that of two females"" (Sura 4:11; 4:176).

More from MEMRI TV on the rights of women.

Matthew 7:17-18 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.  18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[Peter]

From an email.

Muslim Women

Thoughts from Nonie Darwish's book, "Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law."

In Islam, a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child. Consummating the marriage by age 9.

The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his slave) and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use her as a toy.

Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce.

To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses.

Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their wives 'at will' and he does not have to say why he beat her.

The husband is permitted to have 4 wives and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his discretion.

Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of women.

In the Western World (America) Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law so the wife can not obtain a divorce and he can have full and complete control of her. It is amazing and alarming how many of our sisters and daughters attending American Universities are now marrying Muslim men and submitting themselves and their children unsuspectingly to Shariah law.

By passing this on, enlightened American women may avoid becoming a slave under Shariah Law.

Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world, destroying Western law and liberty.

Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in Egypt and Gaza before immigrating to America in 1978, when she was eight years old. Her father died while leading covert attacks on Israel . He was a high-ranking Egyptian military officer stationed with his family in Gaza .

When he died, he was considered a "shahid," a martyr for jihad. His posthumous status earned Nonie and her family an elevated position in Muslim society.

But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She questioned her own Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after hearing a Christian preacher on television.

In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping sharia law - what it is, what it means, and how it is manifested in Islamic countries.

For the West, she says radical Islamists are working to impose sharia on the world. If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed. Westerners generally assume all religions encourage a respect for the dignity of each individual. Islamic law (Sharia) teaches that non-Muslims should be subjugated or killed in this world.

Peace and prosperity for one's children is not as important as assuring that Islamic law rules everywhere in the Middle East and eventually in the world.

While Westerners tend to think that all religions encourage some form of the golden rule, Sharia teaches two systems of ethics - one for Muslims and another for non-Muslims. Building on tribal practices of the seventh century, Sharia encourages the side of humanity that wants to take from and subjugate others.

While Westerners tend to think in terms of religious people developing a personal understanding of and relationship with God, Sharia advocates executing people who ask difficult questions that could be interpreted as criticism.

Difficult as it may be to believe, today's Islamic scholars agree that those who criticize Islam or choose to stop being a Muslim should be executed. Sadly, while talk of an Islamic reformation is common and even assumed by many in the West, such murmurings in the Middle East are silenced through intimidation.

While Westerners are accustomed to an increase in religious tolerance over time, Darwish explains how petro dollars are being used to grow an extremely intolerant form of political Islam in her native Egypt and elsewhere.

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President by themselves and they may have already done so! Obama is a Muslim. They have also taken over several towns here in the USA, Dearborn, Michigan being one.

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read her book, but with the ACLU, there is no way it will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on!

It is too bad that so many are disillusioned with life and Christianity and accept Islam as peaceful. Some Moslems may be, but they also have a militant arm that is eager to shed blood in the name of Islam. Peaceful Moslems support these warriors with their finances and their faith in their religion. In Islam there is no separation of church and state, Islam is the state. While America is erasing Christianity from its public places and forgetting their God, the children of Muslims are preparing for a great jihad in America.

Passing this on is your chance to make a difference...!

[Peter]

Volume 7, Book 63, Number 182:
Narrated Abu Usaid:

We went out with the Prophet to a garden called Ash-Shaut till we reached two walls between which we sat down. The Prophet said, "Sit here," and went in (the garden). The Jauniyya (a lady from Bani Jaun) had been brought and lodged in a house in a date-palm garden in the home of Umaima bint An-Nu'man bin Sharahil, and her wet nurse was with her. When the Prophet entered upon her, he said to her, "Give me yourself (in marriage) as a gift." She said, "Can a princess give herself in marriage to an ordinary man?" The Prophet raised his hand to pat her so that she might become tranquil. She said, "I seek refuge with Allah from you." He said, "You have sought refuge with One Who gives refuge. Then the Prophet came out to us and said, "O Abu Usaid! Give her two white linen dresses to wear and let her go back to her family." Narrated Sahl and Abu Usaid: The Prophet married Umaima bint Sharahil, and when she was brought to him, he stretched his hand towards her. It seemed that she disliked that, whereupon the Prophet ordered Abu Usaid to prepare her and to provide her with two white linen dresses. (See Hadith No. 541).

Raised his hand to "pat her". Ya right.

[AnnaMuslim]

This is a disgusting thread, may I remind you that there are an estimated 1.8 billion muslims in the world, and If they wanted to or believed in killing the infidel then each muslim only has to kill about 5 disbelievers, Problem solved, but that obviously does not happen, If Islam was spread by the sword, there would no countries outside Arabia that would be muslim, Indonesia. Malaysia, Sumatra, three quarters of Africa would all happily go back to disbelieving as the time of the sword is long gone. Women are abused by everyone except sincere Muslims at every level of society, Ask my wife she is a revert (to Islam from one of the staunches CHristian churches in the world (The apartheid NG sending Kerk) (ALLH guides whom he wills). The criteria is seek guidance from your Lord, open your heart to the truth and try not to brainwash yourself.

What you propagating and the way you going about spreading vile stories true or not they are are the worse of humankind. How about me telling people that 30% of what used to be christians are now Atheist, and they choose to be atheist in order to sleep with multiple partners. It sounds absurd, well, I am a Muslim and I live in a country with the majority being non-muslim, Christians, Jews, and a majority that does not believe  and the abuse of women and child Rape is unheard of amongst the Muslims but at epidemic levels amongst the disbelievers, see child rapes in South Africa due to the myth of AIDS: see  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article7133312.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1703595.stm (since 2001)
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/april/rape.htm

Exploitation of women are legalised in Holland,
Slavery and child abuse is common place in the Church (Catholic and Protestant)
In the East (bangkok) Slavery and child abuse by western visitors has balloned the industry 1000 fold in recent years
Would you like me to continue?

The Problems amongst disbelievers and Christians make Islamic transgressions look like childsplay,

Please do not act out of Ignorance take the beam out of your own eye.

Repent and turn to ALLAH for guidance.

[Peter]

This is a disgusting thread, may I remind you that there are an estimated 1.8 billion muslims in the world, .......

I am well aware of that because Muslims populate like bunnies when they move to western welfare states.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for WIDE [IS] THE GATE, AND BROAD [IS THE WAY, THAT LEADETH TO DESTRUCTION, and many there be which go in thereat:

..... and If they wanted to or believed in killing the infidel then each muslim only has to kill about 5 disbelievers, ........

Lucky for the rest of us that most of you don't have the stomach for it, as so are considered to be apostates as far as the true Muslims in the cradle of the religion are concerned, that murder non-Muslims in the mold of your false prophet.
But your stats don't work too well with the U.S. being about 6 tenths of one percent Muslim. Particularly when 75% of U.S. so-called converts leave Islam within a few years.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=75%25+of+converts+leave+islam&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
It's not too late for you, my friend. Or the wife that you talked into joining you on your march to hell.

....... Problem solved, but that obviously does not happen, If Islam was spread by the sword, ........

I'm sorry but you cannot deny this. How do you explain the imperialistic slaughter of the Islamic First Jihad all the way up to France and Austria? Blessedly Charles Martel struck the deathblow to the murderous Mohammedans from which the Islamic beast was mortally wounded, until healed through western wealth transfer to start the 2nd jihad in the image of the Islamic first jihad.
http://beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#daniel_1335_days

........ there would no countries outside Arabia that would be muslim, Indonesia. Malaysia, Sumatra, three quarters of Africa would all happily go back to disbelieving .......

That's not an option as the 2 million killed at the hands of Islamic antichrists - in the Sudan alone - attest.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=2+million+killed+sudan+islam&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

....... as the time of the sword is long gone.

Doesn't matter where we look. In Indonesia 3 teenage girls were beheaded on their way to their Christian school and one of their heads left on the steps of a Church.   The note left behind reads:  "We will murder 100 more Christian teenagers and their heads will be presented as presents."
Islamic terror is just as Mohammed practiced. You are trying to make an impossible case with over 15,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=731.0

[Peter]

Women are abused by everyone except sincere Muslims at every level of society, .......

Sure. That's why Mohammed instructed husbands to beat their wives. And the only discussion among Imams revolves around how hard to beat them - NEVER about the psychological damage caused. (refer to the first verse cited in the original post)
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wife+beating+islam&aq=f

Sura (4:34) - Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.



Even beat them green.
Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her.  Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing.  Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Sura 2:223  your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

..... Ask my wife ......

I would like to. Why don't you invite her into the forum, and show her all your comments and my replies, and let her join in the conversation?
If you have a fear of doing that then don't you need to ask yourself why?

...... she is a revert .....

Revert eigh? You bought the whole thing didn't you? For those unfamiliar with the term, the premise is that everybody on earth has always been born into Mohammed's 7th century cult. But even their own false prophet disagrees with this preposterous notion.

6.14 Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth? And He it is that feedeth but is not fed." Say: "Nay! but I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah (in Islam), and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah."

He knew that the Jews were monotheists so there can be no question that he was making claim to being the first Muslim.

..... (to Islam from one of the staunches CHristian churches in the world .......

She may have come from a church, but she wasn't a Christian. Here's why

Mar 13:22   For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

You see it's not possible for any of God's elect to be duped by a false prophet. If your wife is elect she will yet become a Christian. That goes for you too.

..... (The apartheid NG sending Kerk) (ALLH guides whom he wills). The criteria is seek guidance from your Lord, open your heart to the truth and try not to brainwash yourself.

But all you have done is a bad job of trying to spread your brainwash, without supporting it in the least. That's why you haven't responded to a single one of my replies to your comments.
You have been brainwashed into a religion that is a historical, archaeological and geographical absurdity.
You didn't explain it, because you can't explain it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.msg5794#msg5794

What you propagating and the way you going about spreading vile stories true or not ........

Having been hardened by a few years of dealing with Muslims I understand my presentation is a bit straightforward.
How would you present these matters of fact?
What if you felt as desperate as I do for the 1.5 billion Muslims deceived by the false prophet Mohammed?
You could die this very day, my friend. Are you ready to meet our judge?

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Forever is a very long time.

....... they are are the worse of humankind.

Because I've shown you can't have your cake and eat it too? Because it isn't OK to follow a false prophet that WAS and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ and all of His prophets and witnesses of the Gospel? Because I don't sit around a campfire with you, sing koom bye yah, and kiss the Quran like the pope did, as I watch you march merrily behind Mohammed to perdition?

2Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, FALSE ACCUSERS, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

How about me telling people that 30% of what used to be christians are now Atheist, ........

They weren't Christians. There is no shortage of those deluded into believing they became Christians, when a priest sprinkled water on their head as an infant, for example. Or those that recite the "sinners prayer" but never repent.

But then a "falling away" or apostasy, is as indicative of these times, as your false accusations.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling  away first.....

[Peter]

........ and they choose to be atheist in order to sleep with multiple partners.

This is of course NOT Christian "...neither fornicators...shall inherit the kingdom of God."

But it is exactly what Mohammed's Allah sanctioned. Indeed he even doted on Mohammed giving him all the wives and concubines he wanted - but only for him.

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess; - in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. (Sura 33:50-51)

It's certainly not what God sanctions.

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Look how the false prophet Mohammed measured up to these verses. Of course rape and murder go without saying.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=879.0

[Peter]

It sounds absurd, well, I am a Muslim and I live in a country with the majority being non-muslim, Christians, Jews, and a majority that does not believe  and the abuse of women and child Rape is unheard of amongst the Muslims ......

That's because child rape is legal in Islam since it was OK for Mohammed to do Aisha when she was nine years old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OZ3s0BcSxs

And since an allegation of rape in Islam requires the testimony of three or more women, it continues to be unheard of.
If a lone girl makes the charge, she will more likely be killed by her parents to preserve their "honor", than to have her rapist brought to justice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

....... but at epidemic levels amongst the disbelievers, see child rapes in South Africa due to the myth of AIDS: see  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article7133312.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1703595.stm (since 2001)
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/april/rape.htm

Exploitation of women are legalised in Holland, ......

You seem to be blind to the fact that women who prostitute themselves in Holland, do so by choice, whereas Mohammed and his boys took women as captives and pressed them into sexual slavery. Mohammed's Allah even instructing on rules for pimping out one's sex slaves. Didn't you even read the OP?

Sura 24:33:...But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),    

So when they don't desire chastity, pimp them out and make a gain. Perhaps because she wants to share in the cash or maybe get some distance from her filthy captor for a little while.
But then even if you compel them, Allah is forgiving! Pretty convenient god for a band of murdering, thieving reprobates don't you think?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1263.0

 (and Muslims complained about Abu Grebe!)
Here's some of Mohammed's prisoner rape and fornication

Tabari VIII:38 "The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah bt. Amr. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism."

But I guess as you would say as Mohammed that his "Allah" gave her to Mohammed, as "spoils of war, booty".

[Peter]

[disappeared then restored from database]

......Slavery and child abuse is common place in the Church (Catholic and Protestant)
In the East (bangkok) Slavery and child abuse by western visitors has balloned the industry 1000 fold in recent years

What you have reduced yourself to now is the classic Muslim fallback of pretending that all non-Muslims are Christians.

Would you like me to continue?

What I would like is for you to quit ignoring the replies that I have patiently placed on your comments.

The Problems amongst disbelievers and Christians make Islamic transgressions look like childsplay,

Before you characterize a behavior as "Christian" you are first going to have to show us where, in the Gospel, Christians are instructed to do any of what you claim Christians do.
I have shown you what Mohammed's Allah instructed in regard to raping captives, and pimping out one's sex slaves in the original post that you have yet to refute.

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'

Real nice bunch of guys, huh? Rape of, and fornication with, captives, CODIFIED into Mohammed's religion and practiced all over Mohammedan Africa today.

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes" one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children."

Please do not act out of Ignorance take the beam out of your own eye.

Repent and turn to ALLAH for guidance.

I'm sorry but you have failed miserably to make any kind of case for Mohammed's STAND-ALONE 7th century religion. And I have shown that Muslims must first empty their minds of history, archaeology, geography and particularly scripture, until their intellect becomes that of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate, in order to follow THE false prophet Mohammed.
All you've proven through your unsupported outbursts in here is that you don't know much more about Islam than you do Christianity.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That false prophet isn't the tooth fairy, my poor, deluded friend. Forever is a very long time.

[AnnaMuslim]

My apologies if I seem to have no patience with you but your indoctrination and level of ignorance about Islam is just staggering, I know the problems of humanity (from amongst those who say they believe and those that openly transgress)

You have no argument, Islam took the world out of the dark ages and is continuing to do just that.

People like you seem to be bent on the negative and hatred and refusing to accept the truth over falsehood,

Muslims are passionate about their belief and live by their beliefs,

I have read a lot of the negative Islamic propaganda and yes I agree that it looks very bad to a none muslim and my test is very simple, "does the good of Islam outweigh the bad" in other words, how are we benefitting from Islam. Well the very numbers you using comes from Muslims it is actually Arabic symbols from the Muslim mathematicians in use to day, the zero in particular made this type of interaction possible, well what did the West use it for and the short answer is to spread pornographic images of women. what are the Muslims Using it for? Well to engage in conversations on religion.

What you portray are isolated incidents in very remote parts of the world, 1,8 billion Muslims are not ill treating their wives are we would have the same dysfunctional families the christians have, but 90% of the time problems are unheard of. Abuse is closely monitored by family members as the families are very close and generally ensure that their sisters and daughters are looked after in the ,manner their fathers did. The reason for this behaviour is the advice of The beloved of ALLAH, the final messenger, Muhammad (may ALLAH bestow peace and blessings on him, his wives and his companions.)

You have been lied to, and you have taken everything out of context, look around and see the huge negative effects of not following Islam on the world and the havoc it has wreaked on the world, through a doctrine that propagates that nothing is sacred, there are no laws, or rules, just be a good person and believe that Jesus died for you and you will be saved. That is Satans way of getting you to disobey GOD. That is a good way to build soldiers that kill for Patriotism, Killing and dying in the name of GOd is outlawed, by those who disbelieve. Please do not be so naive in believing that Muslims Kill, Christians apparently do not have ant verses pertaining to killing but have managed to kill the most people on earth. Please do not get me started on all the Christains who participated in wars out of anger, spite revenge and plain, we wont have the muslims ruling and we therefor will kill.


The BEAM IN YOUR EYE IS GETTING BIGGER BY EACH POST THAT IS NEGATIVE. Your Arguments are while not baseless thay are irrelevant to your own sprituality. You do not get closer to GOD by focussing on the negativity you say takes one away from GOD. You cannot argue with someone who holds superior knowledge to yours that is just plain Arrogance (Satanic Pride)

Heres your first lesson

The first command is that there is no GOD but ALLAH ( Your lord is One)
If Satan can get you to disobey this command he can get you to do anything.

Someone died for your sins (whatever happen to free will??

The Murder weapon (cross) becomes a symbol for a religion (though shalt not take or make any image to be worship, for I am a jealous GOD) do those words mean anything to you?

[Peter]

My apologies if I seem to have no patience with you but your indoctrination and level of ignorance about Islam is just staggering, .........

But the reprobate nature of Mohammed and his boys is exposed through your own books. You're the one demonstrating "ignorance about Islam".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1263.0

...... I know the problems of humanity (from amongst those who say they believe and those that openly transgress)

You have no argument, Islam took the world out of the dark ages .......

Sorry, but what Muslims believe to be the period of ignorance, for them, BEGAN with Mohammed. That's why you have proven that you are required to ignore history, archaeology, geography and particularly scripture, until your intellect becomes that of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate.

Easy to understand of Mohammed's reprobate followers that were desert dwelling illiterates, because they were in it for the property stolen from the families of the men they slaughtered, as well as the wives and girls of the vanquished to press into sexual slavery. But what do you get, besides a ticket on the fast train to perdition?

....... and is continuing to do just that.

People like you seem to be bent on the negative and hatred and refusing to accept the truth over falsehood,

The "falsehood" to which you refer is from the Quran and Hadith.
This isn't about me, my friend. Did Mohammed's phony god sanction the rape and sexual enslavement of women - married or unmarried - taken as captives, or not?
Did Mohammed engage in the same or not?
Did Mohammed do a 9 year old or not? What about her desires? What happened to her free will?
Please review the original post again before responding.

[Peter]

Someone died for your sins (whatever happen to free will??

That's the whole point - the reason for the Gospel. It is our free will, that allows us to sin, and thus require atonement for remission of those sins. That's the way it's been between God and His people for 3500 years.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0

But of course Mohammed taught that one receives remission from sin if they walk around the kaaba 7 times as the pagans did......

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 596:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "Whoever performs Hajj for Allah's pleasure and does not have sexual relations with his wife, and does not do evil or sins then he will return (after Hajj free from all sins) as if he were born anew."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.' (poor pagans kicked out of their own ritual!)

 ......... and kiss or point to the black stone former moon god idol each time around .....
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0

....... and run back and forth 7 times from al-Safa and al-Marwa as the Arabian jinn devil worshippers did.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)

Do you really believe that sin is remitted by practicing repackaged pagan Arabian rituals, rather than through blood sacrifice, as it has been with God's people for 3500 years?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=54.0

[AnnaMuslim]

There are too many false accusations, misguided statements and complete distortions of the truth to respond to on this post. You seem hell bent on using being the rudest person on earth (comment from a former Christian), Jesus never spoke the way you do!!!!!!!
Time to take my gloves of and sink to your level: Please read carefully.

1. You are lying and deliberately insulting a sacred text due to your bias and indoctrination. You cant be that gullible to swallow propaganda and lies, I can assure you that you do not have first hand knowledge of anything you quoting. You are regurgitating things you have heard from others. Not a single personal account is quoted, makes you a plagiarist. I have attended Christian School and have first hand knowledge of Jesus after studying the Bible for years and I continue to do so, not for arguments but to understand the deviations from the truth.

2. Not a single Prophet worshipped Jesus, or believed that Jesus died for their sins nor did they preach that to their flock. Do not forget that all your history comes from the Jews and they are totally against the doctrine of riginal sin (YES it is a Doctrine written by a man) and they cannot accept it as it is a complete contradiction of free will and intellect, the very thing that separates us from animals. You free to sin and someone (a human) dies for your sins?? In light of the topic under discussion, you can abuse (you call it seduce) woman and by the way the sexual abuse amongst Christians far outweighs the abuse amongst Muslims, Please check with the Stats figures in your country and get back to me.  Prostitution is abuse, sex by mutual consent is abuse. (My standards are obviously much higher than yours as this is not considered abuse. Letting a woman believe that she should flaunt what she has for all to see is abuse Printing it on a billboard is prostitution, By the way prostitution is a very bad thing and legalising it only makes those in authority look like they belong in the dark ages. Islam is trying to lead man to a dignified life, to give everyone their rights as human beings, and only god-less individuals would be opposed to something like that.

3. The Rights of women is the highest priority in Islam, stating something in terrible manner that you take out of context does make it sound like a completely illogical act. I refer to your comments on Aisha and the Quranic text on women. When viewed by a non-muslim with a history and a society of exploitative individuals it sounds like a dirty act. But you are treating Muhammad like an ordinary man, he was human but he is the Prophet of ALLAH and all your vile accusations against is of no consequence.

4. Your explanation of sharia law is exactly the opposite of what you stating, Sharia law ensures that the rights of human beings are maintained at the highest level. In order to understand and make comment on sharia law you have to understand what the rights of humans are not according to man made rules where rights seem to imply I amfree to do as a please even If I go to hell and no-one can tell me what to do (Sounds Satanic to a Muslim) Sounds like choas to authorities and sounds like Blasphemy if You believe in GOD.
Firstly you have to know and follow the will of GOD (YOU PETE have no Clue because you think you saved, who says God has accepted your arrogance and bad accusations against 1,8 billion people who according to you need saving, or don't you believe they deserve GOD's Grace?? DID Jesus Insult and ridicule the Jews being a JEW himself?? did he Insult and accuse the previous prophets of not announcing him properly to the JEWS???
Secondly: You have no new information from within yourself, you are indoctrinated and cannot understand that my answers are covering the topics completely. Let me spell it out for you.

1 Your sources of information and explanation of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad are highly questionable (sounds like sour grapes to me you know envy and hatred of something superior. Can be seen by the absurdity of your arguments and I dont argue with a fool, ( I am here out respect for Mr Ellis Skollfield)
2 You have no standard when it comes to women and you are focussed on a few bad individuals in Islam that are as rude as you are.
3. Ever heard of repentance, it cannot fit into the Gospel as you have the concept of original sin, Islam has repentance and reward for doing good. You are a sinner and can only be forgiven by GOD, not his son (he has does not have one we are all his creation not children, we all come from ADAM including Jesus, Messiah born of Mary
4 The Gospels New and Old Testament are unreliable as a holy text, too many changes has taken place over the years and laymen are too easily misled by individual interpretations to trust ( Youhave admitted that most Churches are misguided and not true churches, well that is due to the confusing text, written by men.)


Open you heart to the truth, use your intellect given to you by GOD, start by studying the Bible, in particular the history of the bible
I did latin at school and in the Seventies the bibles I read were all in Latin, the text differs much from the english, simple words like porto in latin, is it he carried or is it porter The one who carries, does not make a differenec to someone that does not care does it?


Regards

[Peter]

There are too many false accusations, misguided statements and complete distortions of the truth to respond to on this post. You seem hell bent on using being the rudest person on earth (comment from a former Christian), Jesus never spoke the way you do!!!!!!!
Time to take my gloves of and sink to your level: Please read carefully.

1. You are lying and deliberately insulting a sacred text due to your bias and indoctrination. You cant be that gullible to swallow propaganda and lies, I can assure you that you do not have first hand knowledge of anything you quoting.

Nobody on earth has "first hand knowledge" of what happened in the 7th century. That's why we have to depend on the texts FROM YOUR OWN RELIGION to get any idea about what Mohammed was like and see what you are taught and what MOHAMMED DID.
Why can't you answer with other than to spam in a bunch of false accusations, and what you WISH Islam is?

You are regurgitating things you have heard from others.

There is not reason to engage in your litany of false accusations against me, simply because you can't face the ugly truth about Islam. I QUOTED FROM YOUR OWN BOOKS. The Imams in the United States feed you a load of whitewashed garbage. If you want to understand TRUE MUSLIMS you have to look to how they behave, and what they believe, in the middle east cradle of the religion. Those are the FUNDAMENTALISTS THAT GET ISLAM that would cut peacenicks like you's heads off as apostates. The guys that do what they can to be just like Mohammed.

IS THE TAKING OF WOMEN AS SPOILS OF WAR PRESCRIBED IN THE QURAN OR NOT?

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war ... this only for thee, and not for believers [at large]; we know what we have appointed for them as to their wives and the  captives whom their right hand possess[/color];... (Sura 33:50-51)

Including still-married women:

Surah 4:24 Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:...

(Sahih Muslim) Book 8:3431: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified (of menses or delivery) in case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

You have to answer this question, and we have to exhaust this point, before I can move ahead with your post.
You see, that's what DIAlog is. The very thing that guys like you prove that Mohammedans are incapable of engaging in.

[AnnaMuslim]

Let me start at the beginning, The quran is a book of Guidance for those who fear GOD,where in there is no doubt

There are Ayats that were revealed at different intervals in order to ensure that mankind as whole benefit from the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet. We cannot live as 14th century Muslims just as you do not live or believe as 1st century followers of Jesus, we cannot teach ourselves we need teachers that know the truth.

To answer the thread of this post I have the following to say:

The e-mail from the former muslim echos her fears as Murtad, that they are out to get me, Muslims do not want to impose sharia law on the world, Sharia law is an acceptance of the laws of ALLAH by an individual who has accepted Islam. There is No compulsion in religion, it would obviously breed hypocrites like in the western world where she comes from it is obvious that her circumstance compels her to be a christian, many people fall in the same trap and it is evident in most societies, like swimming with the tide is easier.

Sharia Law compels a man to let a woman leave in peace if she wants to and granting her a divorce is the right thing to do, i am not sure what you refering to when saying that it is Muslim men that demand Sharia law as there are no benefits in it for them, on the contrary while the divorce (talaaq) proceedings are underway the man must maintain her standard of living, again, indians, Kashmiris, Arabs, Egyptians, Malaysians and Americans all have their own systems, does not make it Islamic law only ammunition for ignorant fools.

There is No Organisational Islam there are as many as 73 sects, no organisations, political parties and states with their own vested Interest, but no danger of a huge Islamic machine like the American Govt conspiring with the British and Austarlians and its European allies (G8) to rape the world of its resources with Arab oil driving the engines.

I will continue when i have more time, I

PS I have been rushing my answers as I am very pressed for time at the moment, bear with me i will answer the Threads thoroghly.

Regards

[Peter]

Let me start at the beginning, The quran is a book of Guidance for those who fear GOD,where in there is no doubt

There are Ayats that were revealed at different intervals in order to ensure that mankind as whole benefit from the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet. We cannot live as 14th century Muslims ........

I believe you meant 7th century Muslims, and you may not live like them, but many Muslims do EXACTLY WHAT MOHAMMED DID - BECAUSE IT'S PRESCRIBED BY THE QURAN.

"Eyewitness accounts detailing the militia attacks are horrifying. "They killed my 3-year-old son right in front of my eyes," one father from West Darfur said. Since last fall, women have reported more than 500 rapes. Three women said five militiamen beat and raped them last August. The women said, "After they abused us, they told us that now we would have Arab babies. And, if they would find any [more] women, they would rape them again to change the color of their children.""

Can you be so ignorant as to not even know that slavery wasn't even outlawed in many Islamic states until within the last 50 years?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=773.0

........ just as you do not live or believe as 1st century followers of Jesus, ...........

The wonderful thing about the Gospel is that it is just as relevant today as it was in the 1st century.
We don't have to make excuses for Jesus' behavior because it was perfect - Mohammed's behavior was the EXACT OPPOSITE.

NOW CUT THE TAQIYYAH AND ANSWER THE QUESTION. TRY READING IT THIS TIME.

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?

[punisher]

Peter

If i will show u what respect women get in Christianity than surely u will ban me,

But let see ?



Let see in the first image,

Is the publicity is for women or the Car?

Ur society have made women as Show piece, This is not respect my brother, this truly the follow ship of Satan

Let see another image




Its very shameful for whole of Christianity what they have made their women, A tool of Sex, nothing more

and its very shameful for me posting those sinful images

Brother hope soon ur society will realize that Islam has respected women in every aspect of life??


Soon u will See

Mark my words

[Peter]

WHY DIDN'T YOU ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION?

DID MOHAMMED AND HIS BOYS TAKE WOMEN CAPTIVE AS SPOILS OF WAR OR NOT?

YES OR NO?

Peter

If i will show u what respect women get in Christianity than surely u will ban me,

But let see ?

Why would you be banned for something like this, when you haven't even been banned for all your blasphemy against the God of the Scriptures? Particularly since no Muslim has ever been banned from this forum.
All you did was demonstrate what happens when Muslims finally begin to realize Mohammed's religion is a fraud.

Generally after failure, after epic failure, they then make baseless accusations of "insulting our prophet" when in fact it is Mohammed that insults himself, and all we do is point out the way he is revealed through your own books.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0

And the next thing Muslims do is lash out by throwing up straw man arguments that depend on a false premise that all non-Muslims are Christians. Or depend on believing that everyone who calls themselves a Christian, is a Christian, even when their actions are directly contrary to scripture.

Let see in the first image,

Is the publicity is for women or the Car?

The secular ad is using sexual appeal to advance the sale of a car.
Exactly like Mohammed promised virgins and wine in his base and fleshly chicken and wine serving bordello that he called "paradise", in order to sell Islam to a bunch of 7th century reprobates!

Surah 83:25 Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed:
56.35 We have created (their Companions) of special creation. 36 And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), -
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=264.0

[Peter]

Disappeared then restored from database 7-31-13.

Ur society have made women as Show piece, This is not respect my brother, this truly the follow ship of Satan

Let see another image

Its very shameful for whole of Christianity what they have made their women, A tool of Sex, nothing more

and its very shameful for me posting those sinful images

But it has nothing to do with Christianity. Show me where it is suggested in the Gospel. If you cannot then by falsely calling it Christian behavior you are exposed as nothing more than a liar for Satan.

What you have shown is of the world, and Christians are specifically not of this world.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

The kingdoms of this world, from which your images come, are Satan's kingdoms. That's why Mohammedan Islam has lusted after Satan's kingdoms for 1400 years. Because Islam is of Satan - Satan's followers through the false prophet Mohammed.

Hey, but then what could show more "respect" for women, than raping them after slaughtering their fathers, husbands and sons?

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1263.msg5864#msg5864

Rape of prisoners as specifically condoned by Mohammed's phony god "Allah"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=456.0

Brother hope soon ur society will realize that Islam has respected women in every aspect of life??

Soon u will See

Mark my words

In not a single aspect are women respected in Islam. From being treated as chattel by being assigned to some creep for life - because their father wanted it - at pain of death through an "honor" killing if they don't comply.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=54.0

To a 7th century illiterate that himself was too mentally challenged to learn how to read, actually calling women, &quot;deficient in intelligence&quot;. Indeed even slaughtering a literate female poet who wrote poetry about Mohammed's ridiculous pseudo-religious sham.<br />http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=127.0

Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:... "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, ".... I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you.&quot;... The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence.&quot;

Your taqiyyah won't fly here my friend, as also shown in the original post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V22qDQqMPL0

Sura 2:223 your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm

[punisher]

Not at all. This is a preface to further discussion on this subject.
So was Mohammed a liar, or did he substitute one verse for a better one, just as he said he did? Since you don't understand that Mohammed was indeed a liar, then would you follow the first verse that the new one substituted for, or would you follow the later "better" verse that he "substituted" with?

Christians also abuse Jesus, So it's common for them abusing other Prophet, Calling other Prophet as Liar and Theif

Let See How??

 

incident that shows Jesus as a hypocrite:


Jesus did not want his followers to repeat their prayers to GOD Almighty in a short time:

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.  (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 6:5-8)"

So according to Jesus in Matthew 6:5-8, Christians should not ask GOD Almighty more than once about the same thing, because only the heathens (infidels) do that.  Ok, let's look at what Jesus himself did when he started to pray to his GOD Almighty:

Matthew 16:36-50

36.  Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray."
37.  He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
38.  Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
39.  Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
40.  Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter.
41.  "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
42.  He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
43.  When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.
44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.
45.  Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
46.  Rise, let us go! Here comes my betrayer!"
47.  While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people.
48.  Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him."
49.  Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him.
50.  Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."

(From the NIV Bible, Matthew 16:36-50)


"So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:44)"


How many times did Jesus pray over the same thing in such a small period of time?  3 times!!! Let us look at the following verse:

"One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.  (From the NIV Bible, Luke 6:12)"

When Jesus prayed all night long in Luke 6:12, did he not repeat his prayers?  His main focus was on GOD Almighty saving him from the crucifixion.  Jesus' prayers all night long, which obviously were far more than just 3 times, were repetition after repetition after repetition!


Also, since we're speaking of hypocrisy here, isn't Jesus a double-faced hypocrite in Matthew 16:46,50 for calling Judas "his betrayer", and then calling him "friend" after that?

Was Judas really Jesus' "friend"?  Isn't Jesus supposed to be the Creator of the Universe as the polytheist trinitarians claim?  Then am I wrong for taking Jesus, my supposed perfect GOD, at his own words and exposing his faults?

[Peter]

That's not a lie, nor is it hypocrisy.
That Jesus prayed a prayer three times on that occasion was no more instruction regarding how to pray, than his prostrating Himself on another occasion, constitutes instruction for us to do that. He gave us specific instruction so that we wouldn't have to labor under false presumptions the way Muslims do. That's why He specifically instructed on prayer, He also instructed how to pray, and specifically how not to pray.

And as you quoted he specifically prohibited a pattern of prayer that involves the vain repetitions of heathen. This is exactly the form of prayer that Mohammed learned from the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians, that he imposed on the followers of his homemade 7th century religion. Hate to break your bubble but he didn't learn it while riding around on a flying camel.

And you also saw His indictment of how men loved to pray before other men. This was so that men could impress the men with their personal "piety" that resulted from their delusions of self-righteousness. Muslims not only engage in this same behavior of the Pharisees, but in Saudi Arabia if you don't show up for prayers in front of other men, they send the Mohammedan police to your house to find out why.

And it gets worse - AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

And even though you believe that Jesus Christ is the only person in the history of mankind to be conceived by a virgin by the will of God, and you believe He was taken directly up to God, you desire to call Him a liar and a hypocrite because you have to, to follow a false prophet that came along 500 years later and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE, and whose corpse still lies rotting in it's shallow grave.

[Peter]

The post in which you quoted proof texted verses from the Old Testament, that were unrelated to what you quoted, has been moved to a more appropriate thread, with my replies to it that you ignored twice. It will be easier for you to see there, and reduce the confusion here.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0

[punisher]

That's not a lie, nor is it hypocracy.
That Jesus prayed a prayer three times on that occasion was no more instruction regarding how to pray, than his prostrating Himself on another occasion constitutes instruction for us to do that. He gave us instruction so that we wouldn't have to labor under false presumptions the way Muslims do. That's why when He is actually specifically instructed on prayer He instructed how to pray and specifically how not to pray.

And as you quoted he specifically prohibited a pattern of prayer that involves the vain repetitions of heathen. This is exactly the form of prayer that Mohammed learned from the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians, that he imposed on the followers of his homemade 7th century religion. Hate to break your bubble but he didn't learn it while riding around on a flying camel.

And you also saw His indictment of how men loved to pray before other men. This was so that men could impress the men with their personal "piety" that resulted from their delusions of self-righteousness. Muslims not only engage in this same behavior of the Pharisees, but in Saudi Arabia if you don't show up for prayers in front of other men, they send the Mohammedan police to your house to find out why.

And it gets worse - AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

And even though you believe that Jesus Christ is the only person in the history of mankind to be conceived by a virgin by the will of God, and you believe He was taken directly up to God, you desire to call Him a liar and a hypocrite because you have to, to follow a false prophet that came along 500 years later and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE, and whose corpse still lies rotting in it's shallow grave.

That's not lie, what do u mean, Man your books showing lie,

and I am 100000%, Jesus was not Liar, It's the people like Paul, Mathew and are Liar and the people who change the Bible after the Jesus?

[Peter]

That's not a lie, nor is it hypocracy.
That Jesus prayed a prayer three times on that occasion was no more instruction regarding how to pray, than his prostrating Himself on another occasion constitutes instruction for us to do that. He gave us instruction so that we wouldn't have to labor under false presumptions the way Muslims do. That's why when He is actually specifically instructed on prayer He instructed how to pray and specifically how not to pray.

And as you quoted he specifically prohibited a pattern of prayer that involves the vain repetitions of heathen. This is exactly the form of prayer that Mohammed learned from the 2nd century occult cult of the Sabians, that he imposed on the followers of his homemade 7th century religion. Hate to break your bubble but he didn't learn it while riding around on a flying camel.

And you also saw His indictment of how men loved to pray before other men. This was so that men could impress the men with their personal "piety" that resulted from their delusions of self-righteousness. Muslims not only engage in this same behavior of the Pharisees, but in Saudi Arabia if you don't show up for prayers in front of other men, they send the Mohammedan police to your house to find out why.

And it gets worse - AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

And even though you believe that Jesus Christ is the only person in the history of mankind to be conceived by a virgin by the will of God, and you believe He was taken directly up to God, you desire to call Him a liar and a hypocrite because you have to, to follow a false prophet that came along 500 years later and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE, and whose corpse still lies rotting in it's shallow grave.

That's not lie, what do u mean, Man your books showing lie,

and I am 100000%, Jesus was not Liar, It's the people like Paul, Mathew and are Liar and the people who change the Bible after the Jesus?

Of course you're sure the Scriptures lie, because you are filled with the spirit of antichrist. That's why you believe Mohammedanism's fake created history and recycled jinn demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
But those witnesses you blaspheme are the only source of information about Jesus.

[punisher]

Of course you're sure the Scriptures lie, because you are filled with the spirit of antichrist. That's why you believe Mohammedanism's fake created history and recycled jinn demon worship.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
But those witnesses you blaspheme are the only source of information about Jesus.

So your own books (Bible) contain Antichrist