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I have explained several times that someone whom Paul calls "that lawless one" (2 Thess 2:8-9)....
And we have explained several times, that Paul ACTUALLY said "lawless", and that the "one" is a bracketed word THAT WAS ADDED TO PAUL'S WORDS by the translators who, little doubt, shared your doctrinal bias.
You can PROVE NOTHING through your claim. Indeed your claim IS NOT SUPPORTED by the original Greek.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=415.msg5121#msg5121
Sorry but that is a seperate parable than the one of the mustard seed. It deals with people's understanding of teachings about the kingdom of heaven. Not the kingdom itself. Jesus does not define the birds as satan or ministers of satan in the parable you originally mentioned.
Show me how bird is defined as satan or a minister of satan in THIS parable. Jesus set the parameters of each parable. You are reading into that verse what you wish to be there.
QuoteI believe this person may come out of being falsely planted in the Church, but he certainly will not be a true Christian belonging to The Body of Christ.
I believe true Christians are "born again of the Holy Spirit", and that false Christians and unbelievers can be born again of an unholy spirit, the spirit of Satan, living within the temple of the human heart..
Blessings
But you still have failed to support this being a single individual.
Mat 13:31 - Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mat 13:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
The word bird is PLURAL. Still not indicating any one person. Furthermore in this parable Jesus seems to be emphasizing that the kingdom of Heaven will be strong enough to support all who come to rest in it. Not to mention that sinful people do not inherit the kingdom of God.
I believe this person spoken about in 2 Thess 2 will be one who is "born/filled with the spirit of Satan."
I do not believe he will be a Christian by any definition someone may want to give him.
Then how can he "sitteth in the 'temple of God'", when you believe as we, that location is a regenerate individual and the Body of Christ?Jesus warned us in Matt 13 that "the birds of the air will come and nest in its branches" (vs 32), speaking of the kingdom of heaven during the age of the Gentiles. I believe this speaks of children of Satan coming to nest in the Church during the Church age. A true mustard seed can never grow into a tree, but this one does. I am content to remain and be the true mustard seed within the kingdom of heaven.
Blessings
[edit add] I didn't spend enough time reading your reply. Sorry.
So then you seem to be pretty well stuck believing he will have to come out of the Body of Christ.
Did you spend any time in the 2 Thess thread that we've been working on for the last couple of days?
I put some of my response in this thread John 10:10
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=415.msg5149#msg5149
Before we go any further I want to let you know that if I offended you it was not my intention. But you seemed to have indicated in your previous post that for 40 years now you have only taken an occasional look at prophecy. But given the events in Isreal in the last 40 years now is a time more important than any that preceded it to take a look at those books and for once leave our doctrinal baggage at the door and just let it say what it says. For example.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm
Please read that page. Or if that is a little too long.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=543.0
That doesn't go into as much detail as the first link but it still conveys what I am trying to point out.
I've explained this twice before, so here it is again. Taking his seat in the temple of God could mean letting Satan empower him as "the man of lawlessness."
So then are you saying you expect "The" "Antichrist" will be a regenerate individual? Will be a Christian? Will be a "temple of God"? Or that he will be seated within the Body of Christ?
Nearly a third of the Bible is prophecy. So I feel God wanted you to study it more than occasionally. Besides there are practical application to the teachings contained within them. Like the letter to the 7 churches for example.
I did not say I haven't studied extensively all the prophesies of the Bible in the past, for I have. I just said I spend more time today with the truth of John 10:27, listening to what our Lord wants me to do on earth before He returns.
I realize we have taken you out of your comfort zone, but surely you can see you have been unable to answer to what we have been asking you about your view, remaining mute on the dangers to the church we have pointed out result from your view, and you haven't brought an argument against it.
We've given you very tangible answers that you haven't attempted to refute but rather ignore, and to support your view, substitute for answers to ours with:
"...I believe we will see things better that we only see now in part."
"I confess I still see only in part, as did Paul."
"....must mean something other than the re-building of a physical temple."
But never admitted to where the temple of God mentioned in 2 Thess is, for example. Your eschatology depends on the answer to that question.
Why not review the thread challenge yourself to answering a few of the questions, whether in here or to yourself?
Let me ask you a question. How long ago did you decide the futurists were wrong about a rebuilt temple? When did you stop holding that view?
Nearly a third of the Bible is prophecy. So I feel God wanted you to study it more than occasionally. Besides there are practical application to the teachings contained within them. Like the letter to the 7 churches for example.
THEN WHAT? Is it that difficult to locate the "temple of God"? have you noticed how you are avoiding the inevitable conclusion you will reach? Where is the temple of God?
So then on what basis do you believe it is a single individual?
2 Thess 2:3 identifies that a "man of lawlessness" will come forth shortly before the coming of our Lord, "who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship" (vs 4).
Verse 8 again identifies him as "that lawless one, whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and wonders."
It hard for me to not believe that this man of lawlessness will not be a person who arises on the world's scene shortly before our Lord returns, "whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His coming."
Blessings
Could you please show me in that chapter where it indicates that this man of lawlessness was to come "shortly before the coming of our Lord"? It simply says that the day of the Lord wouldn't happen until after he had been reveale[/size]d. But the same chapter said he was at work in Paul's day.
Answer: The man of lawlessness in vs 3 is the same lawless one in vs 8 that is slain when the Lord returns. Therefore, I conclude that he comes on the world's scene very shortly before our Lord returns.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
And only if we let him. This is a common theme. Satan is limited so long as we resist him.
Would you like to see the man of lawlessness working as we type?
Answer: Yes, God has called the Church to hold back evil in the world, and to carry the gospel of the kingdom that Jesus is Lord to the ends of the earth. But there is coming a day when we can no longer hold back the events of the end of the age, and then God will send forth His angels to reap the final harvest. Matt 13:41
http://www.christianforums.com/t7462128-3/#post54598848 doubting Jesus' deity.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7462025-2/#post54576096 condoning homosexuality
2 Thess 2:3 identifies that a "man of lawlessness" will come forth shortly before the coming of our Lord, "who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship" (vs 4).
Verse 8 again identifies him as "that lawless one, whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and wonders."
It hard for me to not believe that this man of lawlessness will not be a person who arises on the world's scene shortly before our Lord returns, "whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His coming."
Blessings
Then what "temple of God" does he "sitteth" in?
