We've already explored the lies of Islam's famous Greek sophist styled entertainers like Yusuf Estes....
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3896.0
....and the buffoonery of the even more famous dissimulator Ahmed Deedat:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=335.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLnEZ4nUhoU
To non-Muslims it seems unimaginable that someone could actually believe they are serving God by lying, so let's explore some fundamentals of where this comes from.
The following is copy and pasted from this link, which if you read it there includes links and such.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/global_war_against_truth.htm#dissimulation
Islam's dissimulation - lying in the cause of "Allah" (URL)
Taqiyya according to Sunni Muslim theologian Abu Ha-med Mohammad ibn Mohammad al-Ghazzali of the Shafi school:
“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…â€
An example of an "obligatory" "goal": "Da'wah is recognised by the majority of scholars as being obligatory upon every Muslim."
Da'wah is proselytizing for the Islamic faith, so when it is not possible to achieve this goal by telling the truth in an interfaith dialogue, Muslims are under obligation to lie while proselytizing. An example of this could be to claim there is a history of Mecca from prior to the 4th century AD, when the person proselytizing knows better.
It isn't unusual for Muhammad's followers to pretend friendship with non-Muslims toward the objective of "da'wah", however genuine friendship is prohibited, outside the context of deception. So much so that the Quran informs Muhammad's followers that if they make friends with Christians or Jews they become OF us:
Surah 5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Abraham's father, Terach was an idol-manufacturer. Once he had to travel, so he left Abraham to manage the shop. People would come in and ask to buy idols. Abraham would say, "How old are you?" The person would say, "Fifty," or "Sixty". Abraham would say, "Isn't it pathetic that a man of sixty wants to bow down to a one-day-old idol?" The man would feel ashamed and leave.
One time a woman came with a basket of bread. She said to Abraham, "Take this and offer it to the gods".
Abraham got up, took a hammer in his hand, broke all the idols to pieces, and then put the hammer in the hand of the biggest idol among them.
When his father came back and saw the broken idols, he was appalled. "Who did this?" he cried. "How can I hide anything from you?" replied Abraham calmly. "A woman came with a basket of bread and told me to offer it to them. I brought it in front of them, and each one said, "I'm going to eat first." Then the biggest one got up, took the hammer and broke all the others to pieces."
"What are you trying to pull on me?" asked Terach, "Do they have minds?"
Said Abraham: "Listen to what your own mouth is saying? They have no power at all! Why worship idols?"
SO WHAT WAS ABRAHAM PRACTISING?
? WIT OR TAQQIYYAH?
Not much can be worse than for a follower of Muhammad to be OF Christians, since they are compelled to believe that each and every Christian throughout a period of nearly 2,000 years, has lived and died in a state of committing Muhammad's only unforgivable sin of "shirk".
NO EVERY FOLLOWER OF MUHAMMAD KNOWS THAT EACH AND EVERY PERSONS FATE LIES IN THE HANDS OF GOD!!! MUSLIMS DO NOT SAY WHO IS GOING TO HELL OR WHO IS GOING TO HEAVEN, WE WARN OF DISPLEASING GOD. WHEN THE PERSON IS DEAD WE DO NOT SPECULATE ON WHERE THAT PERSON GOES> THE WRNING IS FOR THE INDIVIDUAL TO ACCEPT OR REJECT. INDIVIDUALLY YOUR HEART WILL BE PRESENTED TO GOD AND IF IT CONTAINS FOUL MOUTHED ACCUSATIONS AGAINST ONE OF GOD"S CREATION THEN THAT WILL BE PRESENTED
The pilgrimmage of Psalms 84 (URL)
An example of Islamic dissimulation on the Internet and in YouTube videos are the many, many, Muslims who try to sell the notion that the ancient Hebrew word "Baca" suggests the modern Arabic word for "Mecca". This taqiyyah is pitched in places like increasingly Islamized Wikipedia, and countless Internet sites and YouTube videos, by censoring out the only germane portion of Psalms 84 that positively identifies the location of the pilgrimage referenced, as being "in Zion".
Psalms 84:7 They go from strength to strength, every one of them in Zion appeareth before God.
The most stunningly ridiculous part about this lie is that in order to suggest that pilgrimage was to Mecca, would mean that Yahweh's people turned their back on their temple Yahweh had them build on the temple mount in Jerusalem, to wander 1200 KM across harsh, barren, unexplored, uncharted desert wasteland, a thousand years before a caravan route was established along the Red Sea, to Mecca (which did not even exist prior to the 4th century AD), only to march around the Quraish pagan's Kaaba and black stone idol (which did not exist prior to the 5th century AD), only to turn around and wander the 1200 KM back to Jerusalem!
GOD CAN BRING THE DEAD TO LIFE, GOD CAN SAVE ABRAHAM FROM THE FIRE, GOD CAN PART THE SEAS BUT NOT ALLOW ABRAHAM TO WALK FOR 40 t0 50 days guiding him along to a sacred place?? Your argument is ridiculous and your sources are dubious, you have no evidence just speculation and a made history written by unknown authors. We know who said what to is as Muslims, we do not have doubts and uncertainties like you do. GO AND LEARN TO ACCEPT TRUTH FIRST BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT GOD.
Yet no matter how many times the dissimulation in the Wikipedia article is pointed out, and then corrected, liars for "Allah" censor the germane portion of the Bible verse right back out. So which father might this help confirm Muhammad's "Allah" actually is? This particular dissimulation, far from being obscure, was taught by the famous Greek sophist styled entertainer and dissimulator Ahmed Deedat, as well as the popular self-deluded self-proclaimed "exChristian" Yusuf Estes, in Deedat's wake.
BLAH BLAH BLAH, The same rhetoric with not a shred of concrete evidence only what has been written by the hands of conjecturers
The Comforter or Paraklete (URL)
Perhaps an even more common example of Islamic dissimulation is their wishful idea that the "Comforter" - or "parakle-tos" in the Greek - that Jesus said would be sent in His name, was Muhammad! Some comforter!
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
The only person to do that is Muhammad, do you know of anyone else that has presented verses of Jesus as Muhammad has??? describing the birth and calling him messiah??
Yet no matter how many times the specific undeniable truth of that verse is pointed out to Muhammad's followers, Islam's dissimulators continue unabated, with their wishful "Comforter is Muhammad" foolishness. Vainly pretending that the same Bible verses that expose their lies, instead support their false claims! Anyone that has fooled themselves into believing Islamic dissimulation is uncommon, has but to review the Muslim sites on the Internet and Muslim uploaded youtube videos regarding the Comforter/Paraclete, and consider how many include John 14:26 - that defines who the Comforter/Paraclete is - in their discussion.
Its not wishful the title of Muhammad is the mercy unto all The word comfi=orter is a crude translation of the Original word RAHMAAN (comes from the word for MERCIFUL. translated as comforter by greeks, CRUDE AND UNSOPHISTICATED GREEK WRITERS TRANSLATED FROM ARAMAIC (ARABIC) ACCORDING TO THEIR LIMITED INTELLECT AND SPECULATING ON MOST OF THE MEANINGS (PURE CONJECTURE)
ITS LIKE WRITING A BOOK IN AN APACHE LANGUAGE Translated from Chineses by a student that has English as a first language!!!
Do Muhammad's followers even pray in Yeshua's name as Yeshua's people do?
Yeshua (EESA or Jesus in Greek) ALYHISSALAAM is praised and spoken of more highly than any Christian ever could. Every Muslim says Peace be upon him (praying ion his name every time he hears it) Every Christian just says Yeshua or Jesus (no praise)
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY ONLY ASK WHEN YOU SEE HIM IN FRONT OF YOU?? or that Statement is completely out of character for Jesus.
Of course not. but they do cite their "messenger" Muhammad's name in prayer, perhaps hundreds of times a day. Even more amazingly, Muhammad's followers are taught that to pray in Jesus' name, would be to commit Muhammad's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN of "shirk". Islam again demonstrating itself to be the perfect opposite of the Gospel:
MUSLIMS DO NOT PRAY IN ANY PERSONS NAME not even Muhammad Muslims asks God to bestow Salaam on Muhammad as God and the Angels do.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Is Gods name not IAM could this be a
When Christians pray in Jesus' name He is right there with us, through the Holy Spirit, the Comforter that the Father sent in Yeshua's name. Together Jesus and his people are the temple of God. Obviously not the Quraish pagan's Kaaba, located 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs. Yet Muhammad's followers insist that Muhammad was the "Comforter", "paraclete", "intercessor", "assistant", "helper", even though the definition of the term "paraklete" suggests that by doing so they commit Muhammad's only unforgivable sin!
A prophet like unto Moses (URL)
Another real whopper in Islamic taqiyyah is their preposterous claim that Muhammad was prophesied by Moses in this passage:
Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require [it] of him.
When all a person has to do is try a New Testament Bible word search for "Moses" to dispel this ridiculous Islamic dissimulation:
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
AGAIN THE INCORRECT OPINION OF A SCRIBE. "LIKE UNTO YOU" are the key words, Moses is not like Jesus, Moses was not born of a virgin, Jesus was not an Orphan, Moses migrated (Fled exodus) like Muhammad, Moses was persecuted by a tyrant ruler, Muhammad was persecuted by Quraish, I can go on but you get the picture, Oh And Moses did not ascend to heaven and Moses will not return
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Your argument is actually for Muhammad not against
Not only pointing out the easily exposed falsehood of such taqiyyah, but serving as a dire warning to the very people who engage in this dissimulation, who adamantly refuse to "hear that prophet" - Jesus - but instead follow Muhammad alone and thus may be "destroyed from among the people". At least when it comes to Gentiles. We have a whole host of other such subjects on Islamic dissimulation that are explored in a category devoted to "Islam In and On Scripture" in the Islam-Christian Forum.
No you have not presented anything that cannot easily be refuted and shown up as a lie or conjecture at best
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
EXACTLY THE WARNING FOR JEWS NOT MANKIND, THE JEWS ARE CURSED NOT BLESSED!!!!!!
On average Muslims are the most literate group of people in the world. According to Nicolai Sennels, a Danish psychologist: "In the last 1,200 years of Islam, just 100,000 books have been translated into Arabic, about what Spain does in a single year. Seven out of 10 Turks have never even read a book." Thus many of Muhammad's followers are prone to simply accepting what they are taught, without ever giving a thought, to the plausability of it. Like Muhammad's claim of having ridden around on a flying donkey-mule.
BOOKS ARE GENERALLY TRANSLATED FROM ARABIC TO OTHER LANGUAGES, HUGE AMOUNTS OF THEM, SEE THE HISTORY OF TOLEDO THAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE!!!! THOUSANDS OF BOOKS WERE TAKEN FROM TIMBAKTU, SEE SOUTH AFRICAN GOVERNMENT ESTABLISHES A MUSEAM AND PRESERVATION OF ARABIC BOOKS!!!!!
Abraham, Hagar & Ishmael (URL)
Here is a sample Islamic site:
"Abraham took Hagar and her son, Ishmael to a place near the Kabah; he left them under a tree at the site of Zamzam. No one lived in Makkah back then, yet Abraham made them sit there, leaving them with some dates, and a small water-skin. Thereafter he set out towards home."
So Muslims are required to believe that Hagar and Ishmael wandered from Abraham's home in Hebron, to the well of zamzam in Mecca. They are even required to believe that Abraham built or rebuilt the Kaaba (with some believing Adam originally built it). Yet in order for Hagar to have wound up - in the place where Mecca was eventually settled two thousand years after Hagar lived - she would have had to have traveled over 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, unexplored, uncharted, untravelled waterless desert wasteland, over a thousand years before history informs us the first caravan route was established along the Red Sea, and most of a thousand years before the advent of camel transport in Arabia.
This nonsense while the scriptures offer us a perfectly plausable account that is consistent with immovable physical geography:
Genesis 21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
VERY LOGICAL THING FOR A AMN OF GOD TO DO!!! SOUNDS LIKE A DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TOI COVER THE TRUTH OR SLADER A PROPHET??
Please note the location of Beersheba on the preceding map. Islamic so-called "tradition", was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD, without reference to any actual historical record from prior to the 5th century AD. Without this created fiction that pretends Abrahamic roots, and masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history, Islam is exposed as nothing more than the fraud of a 7th century SW Arabian desert dwelling illiterate false prophet. Stripped naked and exposed as absolutely nothing more, than an imperialistic political machine bent on conquest and subjugation of the world, without even the pretense of religiousity. Except of course to subjugating everyone in the world into an ANTI-religion dedicated to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ - the whole subject of the Gospel - and denying the Son of God, as articles of faith in the followers of Muhammad's followers.
BE CAREFUL YOU EXPOSING THE VILENESS IN YOUR HEART BASED ON A SCRIBE WHO MAY HAVE ALTERED HISTORY AND STORY TO SUIT HIMSELF
So Muslims may dissimulate by suggesting limits on taqiyyah itself, by first convincing themselves that breaking an oath is not technically lying, perhaps even if breaking it was the intent when the agreement was initially struck as in the case of the "Palestinians". Another example is the temporary, and even 24 hour, "marriage" "contract" for Muslim men - that is mutar or misyar - which offers Muslim men their god granted pass for infidelity, and thereby such arrangements not technically considered to be adultery or cheating on their wives under Muhammad's "Allah".
No that is not what muslims do, I am a muslim and preposterous notions put forth in this thread is so ridiculous i don't know where to start correcting it, so firstly, seek the right knowledge from the right sources. even if its BBC documentaries on Mathematics and Spain (start of Renaissance) Your rhetoric is false , your approach is crude and your language is foul.
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