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Messages - Cephyr13

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1
Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Kingdom of God
« on: July 17, 2013, 12:22:13 PM »
Benner doesn't work alone. He has a lot of people who work together as a big group, and that group changes all the time. They throw around a lot of ideas. But they do their best to keep stick with the original teachings of the Ancient Hebrews, then define the New Testament through that lens. That means that when I assess his work and ideas, I'm always having to check it against mainstream ideology and against my own judgments. I come to the best conclusion I can from what I know.

I know what you mean about working in seclusion. I do my best to keep in the company of many and throw out ideas and check ideas, etc.

And yes, as you said, we program ourselves by looking for what we expect to already find. That's why I struggle so hard to remove my own judgments/opinions, and to step back also from what everyone says I'll find, even the mainstream. Searching for truth is a frustrating business.

Have a good day, brother.

2
Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Kingdom of God
« on: July 17, 2013, 11:03:37 AM »
Oh, Benner doesn't deal with Prophecy at all, as far as I've seen. I think he sticks to translation, the Ancient Hebrew Culture, the styles in which they wrote, and the historical changes in the language due to the captivity of the nation of Israel. I've seen nothing of his views on Prophecy.

I try not to follow his beliefs or anyones in particular. I like to search out God myself and see what other's opinions are. I've done a lot of research over the years--far more than most, just because I have a lot of time on my hands and have a passion for seeking God. The more I learn, the more I see that when I cling to what anyone says, I'm idolizing (taking what others say as my truth). I tend to guard against that heavily now. I watch people do it all the time. They unwittingly get programmed. Like Paul discusses how the people were saying they were baptised by Paul or someone else. They were idolizing--following the ideas of a man rather than seeking God themselves directly. I did this with Ellis and have done it with others over the years. I was unaware of what I was doing. In the past year, I've noticed it and pulled away from it. I try to research like a scientist now--as objectively as possible. My wife's a very good scientist. She's taught me some good practices on research and objectivity.

Thanks for the input. I apreciate it. Oh, and I have researched a bit about that book you mentioned. I know about verses removed and all that stuff. This is nothing new to me. I dig deeper than most people (and not because I'm smart or anything...just because I have a lot of time and interest in this stuff. I'm no smarter than anyone else). In fact, I think my intellect, and trust in it, gets me in more trouble than good sometimes. lol

3
Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Kingdom of God
« on: July 17, 2013, 09:50:42 AM »
I never said Benner is the first guy to notice this. My statement came with implications that he is not the first to noticethis because I mentioned scholars of translation from the 1800s and 1900s that he has mentioned in his research. In other words, many have noticed it and researched it. The problem is that you can't hardly find scholar research about translating online regarding the Ancient Hebrew picture language. Tons of schlar work is simply not available to us non-scholars. So we are at the mercy of the translators and the mainstream, all raised up by the semenaries. It seems that time and time again, it is human nature to fall away from the original message of God, and the society does it as a whole. And some searching souls find truth again and separate from the mainstream. The Essenes did it 150 years before Christ came. Luther did it. It keeps happening. I see it happening again today.

The church is not conducting itself like it used to in the 1st Century. There's something we're missing. And the more I research translation, the more I see the problems with how we think about certain words in the Bible, and how the people in Luther and Tyndale's time were translating concepts imperfectly (and they said that in their own footnotes in the original 1611 version). But I'm just as susceptible to the same thing, so I could easily be wrong when I translate concepts. It's frustrating as hell. It's so easy to be duped and I'm just as easily duped as anyone else. To know that is both liberating and frustrating at the same time. My opinion here is just my opinion, and easily could be wrong. So, I just encourage people to research translation and history and see what they come up with.

4
Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Kingdom of God
« on: July 15, 2013, 04:37:37 PM »
Translation, in this topic, is really off-topic. Sorry about that.

I was just conveying that the Kingdom of Heaven is typically pointed to as being inside of us--in our hearts. A present-tense thing, not a future and coming thing. While I do believe Jesus will return one day, I just think a lot of people think the Kingdom of Heaven is referring to a future event rather than the peace and love and joy that we can experience right now in Christ. Paul said he was a citizen of heaven, seated in heaven right now (depending on which translation you read. LOL Argh!! Translation issues are a pain...).

- Brian

5
Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Kingdom of God
« on: July 15, 2013, 04:34:41 PM »
Oh, sorry. I keep using the wrong term. I meant that the copies of the original manuscripts never say "If anyone should add to this book...ect." I accidentally say original manuscripts all the time.

No, this translator, Jeff Benner, and the scholars he's sourced are Christians, some from the 1800s, 1900s, and today. Benner is more about teaching people how to translate and how to research translation for themselves rather than trying to convey his beliefs. I'll explain here shortly.

And what I'm talking about is the actual 1611 translation of the KJV, not the 1633.

Basically, what happened was, Jeff Benner, a Christian, was reading the Bible back in 1996 and noticed that something didn't make sense with the translation. So he started looking into the original Hebrew language and it started to make more sense. He realized that the translators had not conveyed the message very well from one culture to another. As he research translation more, he found that translation isn't just about translating one word from one language to its equal word in the next language. The words in one language identify that culture's way of thinking and their concepts to another language. And if a culture thinks completely differently than our culture, and they have completely different words than our culture, it will be very difficult to convey their ideas and their thinking into our culture's ideas and thinking. Why? Because our concepts are different than their concepts, which means our word meanings are very different than their word meanings.

My wife is from Taiwan (she's Caucasian, but she was a missionary kid from age 0-12). She tried to tell me this Chinese saying one time. She said that this tiny little phrase in Chinese is not translatable into English. She said the best she could do is give me an idea what what it meant. When she was finished trying to explain it, she said, "I didn't do a very good job. English just doesn't have the words and concepts for me to convey what this saying means." That's what I remembered when I started reading Jeff Benner's stuff.

He said that he got tired of reading translators' opinions and wanted to learn the language for himself. Once he learned Biblical Hebrew, he started learning the Ancient Hebrew culture, because he realized that the great scholars of translation all said that if you truly want to know what a word means, you need to forget the Strongs and go back to the original culture's way of life and learn how they wrote, how they thought, etc. So he started studying the scholars' work on the ways, the thinking, and the writing styles of the Ancient Hebrews. He realized that a language is how a culture expresses their way of thinking, which is entrenched in their lifestyle. Once a person realizes this, they understand how incredibly hard it is to understand the manuscript ideas, then try to convey them into a different language. I don't want to go too deep into this in a chat forum. It's something one must learn for oneself.

Benner encourages people to learn the picture language for themselves, and learn the Abrahamic nomadic culture, and then read it for themselves and come to their own conclusions. He said that he did his very best to get rid of his old beliefs, and entrench himself in the mind of an Ancient Hebrew of Abraham's time while he translated. He and those who help him translate do their best to see the world from the Ancient Hebrew's eyes, roaming nomadically as sheep herders and all the other things that culture was. They translate from that foundation rather than any preconceived ideas of religion like most people do (like the translators you're describing have done--really, that's what nearly all translators have done).

When we've talked on the phone in the past, I saw that you're a smart guy who's really seeking truth. Me telling you this stuff isn't actually going to help much. If you want to go look at Benner's stuff yourself, that's where you'll start to see his background in translation and how he does it. He does a great job with his videos on YouTube. They're nearly professional level documentaries. Great stuff. It's a very quick way to learn some foundations of translation. What I did was started reading the original Hebrew Word meanings from Benner's website. When I saw how loving a God they painted, and how much sense that made with how Jesus treated people, I began realizing where I'd gone wrong in my research.

Benner is more about teaching how to translate, and what words mean, and what the culture was like back then. He does this so other people can learn to translate objectively rather than through their religious teachings. Or if a person isn't interested in that, he tries to educate a person enough to know what the original words meant so they can figure this stuff out as they read. I like that about him. He doesn't seem to be pushing a certain belief on anyone. He seems to be trying to educate people about how to translate. That's very refreshing.

Real quick, I'll give you an example of something Benner translated and discusses that's pretty cool. He says the word "create" in Genesis 1:1 and the word "made" in Genesis 1:24-28 (the making of Adam) is the same Hebrew word. We think of that word in Genesis 1:1 as "creating" out of nothing, and yet in Genesis 1:24-28, we think of God "making" Adam out of clay that already exists. So, our concept of the word may be off. So he goes and finds the word used later in scripture. The word "fatten"--in scriptural context, the Bible talks about fattening the calf for a meal--is the same word as "create" and "make." Benner says that when you research the Ancient Hebrew picture language, you start to see where that word came from, and you start to understand what it means. He says that the word is associated with filling of something that exists, like fattening the calf. That's where it came from. It means to fill something up. So, when Adam had a spirit put into him, he was "filled up" with God's "image," or more accurate, God's "shadow." At least that's how the Ancient Hebrew put it. A shadow of the original. He truly tries to educate people on the word origins and meanings so they can learn this stuff, not so he can spread his ideas like other translations do. Here are some links if you'd like to watch some of his videos. It's like watching the History Channel kind of. lol I highly recommend the History of the Hebrew Language video Benner has. Great presentation of how the language came to be and how it evolved and what tough a tough job translators have translating this stuff. And I'll share one link to a very cool page on his website that gives the Ancient Hebrew picture language word meanings of 36 of some of the most important words in the Bible.

Jeff Benner's Website: Ancient Hebrew Research Center - Word Meanings: God
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_god.html

Jeff Benner's YouTube Page
A History of Hebrew: Its Langauge and Philosophy:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0E346CF634AD0E30 (just hit play all for this series)

Jeff Benner's YouTube Page (lost of stuff here to watch)
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6JJpa_DEnsRZEgGk7yEGAQ

Enjoy! It's very enlightening to learn how translation works, and to see through the eyes of the Ancient Hebrew instead of just having to trust the translators' opinions. Cool stuff.

6
Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Kingdom of God
« on: July 15, 2013, 08:52:50 AM »
I agree with Ellis on prophecy, but I also believe the Kingdom of Heaven is present. I'm not sure it was ushered in at Pentecost, though. Jesus, before Pentecost, told His disciples that the Kingdom of Heaven is inside of them. Present tense. Now, whether our translations are accurately portraying that is a different story. After learning about how translation works, I haven't been able to find any good translations, not even the King James. I think Jeff Benner's translation work is by far the best, but he's only translated a little of the Bible using the word meanings from the Ancient Hebrew picture language, and its structure, and the culture, and their ways of writing, and the way they thought, and the way they lived, etc. They thought as Easterners, not Westerners. Easterners think very differently than Westerners. The Western powers took the Jews captive before the last parts of the Old Testament were written. We start to see the Western influence in their language. By the time Christ arrives on the scene, we see that the Jews have gone extremely Western in their ways and thoughts. They're interpreting the Old Testament through Western thought and Western eyes and they're completely missing the heart of scripture. They're no longer nomads. Like Abraham, and therefore cannot understand the nomadic ways of Abraham's people. Their nomadic ways, and the way they thought and wrote poetically and figuratively saturate the Old Testament, the Law, all of it. Unless we understand those people, we completely misunderstand what's being said when we translate. A translator cannot help but translate his beliefs into the translation. After researching the history of the church and the strong pagan influences it underwent, I no longer trust the translators of 1611 to give an accurate translation. There were footnotes all over the original 1611 translation where the translators said their translation was no better than any other translation at the time, and that they did the best they could, but that there was a lot that they were not certain about in the translating process. They showed how imperfect their translation was and how difficult it was for any and all translators to translate. A century or so later, some protestants began a campaign to say that the King James was the only perfect translation. They removed all the footnotes to support there claims. Did you know that the phrase "If anyone should add to this book, so shall the plagues of this book be added to him..." was not in the original manuscripts? That was added in those days in several translations to scare people, making it sound more ominous. Tentmaker.net is a good place to read about this. Lots of good references to scholars' work there.

Sorry for the huge paragraph--I'm posting on my cell phone.

7
Sure, feel free to move the topic. I wasn't sure where to post it exactly.

8
Looks like economic collapse is coming quickly. The Chinese president is pushing for the dollar to be dropped as the world currency and the Chinese yuan to replace it, or a multi-currency system. When this happens, the dollar will drop drastically in value (hyper-inflation), and we will no longer be the country who first gets our oil supplies met. Instead, China and India's oil supplies will be met and we will be on the back-burner, meaning oil prices here will skyrocket and our daily supply will be less than we need. This will cause a complete breakdown of the system. When oil hits $120 a barrel, our economy tanked in the past. Oil is nearly at $100 a barrel now. Best to start stocking up on food and maybe some gasoline with some stabilizer to make it last a good year and some other survival items. Economic collapse is not pretty.

http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/ChinasPresidentDumpDollarforYuanasGlobalCurrency/2011/01/18/id/383097?s=al&promo_code=B7C0-1

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General Discussion / Dinosaur Bones Prove a World-Wide Flood
« on: October 08, 2010, 07:23:58 AM »
This is an excellent article in which dinosaur bones prove a world-wide flood:

http://creation.com/death-throes

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Welcome - (also for registration questions) / Jumping Text Fix for IE8
« on: September 28, 2010, 03:43:33 PM »
Finally! Figured out how to fix the jumping text-box when your post gets lengthy (for IE8). Click on compatibility view (it's the broken piece of paper at the right end of the address bar, right beside the refresh arrows and the red X for stopping a site from loading, just to the left of the search box. Click on that so it's lit up light-blue and that fixes the problem. Hope this helps!

Also, here's a thread discussing it if an administrator of a site is having a problem with it, I think:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=376321.0

13
Please make additional suggestions for boards or categories in the General Discussion category.

There is a very strange problem I have. Maybe only IE 8 does it. When I try to type posts here, and I've filled the message window up with text, it starts to jump as I type more text which requires the box to scroll down more. It's really annoying. I have had to start typing my posts in Word and then paste into here to reply. Any idea what causes this or how to fix it?

- Brian

14
Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Something I found that seemed interesting...
« on: September 20, 2010, 11:14:32 AM »
Well, I didn't say that Britain was the 10 tribes or Ephriam- I was quoting from another site. that's why the link. And I said the Skolfield's book was focused on Middle East history. I said nothing about exclusiveness.

Oh, I apologize. I must have misread or misunderstood something you stated in your post.

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Something I found that seemed interesting...
« on: September 20, 2010, 08:52:55 AM »
You said that Skolfield only focuses on the Middle East, and you said that Britain is Ephraim returned. I'm not sure which of Skolfield's books you have read, but Skolfield actually covers America and a tiny bit of what happened with the Ten Tribes whom were dispersed by the Assyrians. The invasion, as you stated, was in 721 BC, but the Ten Tribes were not fully taken away captive till 724 BC.

The Ten Tribes were referred to as "Israel" and also "Ephraim", being that Ephraim was the strongest tribe, and thus, the name by which they were called. There were many prophecies about Ephraim in the Old Testament which referred to her returning at some point in the future. Ephraim is said to tremble from the West (so they will be somewhere West of Israel, possibly the far West), and they are said to be planted in a pleasant place with resources, guarded by waters. America is as far West as any nation really can be by our maps, and we are a nation founded by Christians who set out to create a nation under God and used the Old Testament Law as the basis for our laws and Constitution. In fact, if you read about the Pilgrims who came to America to settle here, their journals say that God told them to come to America. They were part of the Protestant movement to escape Catholic persecution, so they could be free to serve their God without fear of persecution. America seems to be a good fit, but we need to solidify this with a more definite prophecy.

Keep those things in mind as I lay out the next few prophecies.

Time, Times and Half a Time

The Time, Times and Half a Time prophecies are key to understanding who Ephraim is. When Jews translate the Old Testament “time, times and half a time”, they translate it to say two-and-a-half times, because they know what their sayings mean, where as other people don’t generally understand Old Jewish sayings. When they say, “Once, yeah twice”, it means 2 times, not 1 + 2 like pre-tribbers think it means. Therefore, time, times and half a time means 1 + 1 + ½ = 2.5 times.

We need to know what “time” means. Jews would not know the meaning of “time” because they don’t have the New Testament. 2 Peter 3:8 says a day with the Lord is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day (paraphrased). The word “day” there is “hemera” in the Koine Greek. It actually means “time”. It can be translated as “day”, but when used like this, it means a time period, like “in the day of Moses”, talking about the time period of Moses’ life. It does not mean a 24 hour day. Hemera, in the New Testament, is usually translated as “time”. So, the verse is supposed to say, “A time with the Lord is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a time.” If you read those verses, Peter is talking about Jesus’ coming and telling the people to be patient because it will be a long time. So, this is prophetic in nature, and it’s interpreting what “time” means in prophecy, but people just don’t catch that.

Therefore, time, times and half a time is 1000 + 1000 + 500 = 2500 years.

The Jews have their time, times and half a time prophecies in Daniel. One was given on 552 BC. The other was given in 533 BC. So, we add 2500 years to them:

-552 BC + 2500 years = 1948 AD (when Israel becomes a nation again)
-533 BC + 2500 years = 1967 AD (when Israel gets Jerusalem and their temple mount back again in the Six Day War)

So, both prophecies are about Israel regaining their promised land, but in two stages.

The prophecy to Christians in revelation says the woman Israel is taken away to a place of safety for time, times and half a time (paraphrased). Since Israel was the name the Ten Tribes went by, we need to see when they vanished from the earth. We know that happened in 724 BC (keep in mind that all BC dates are subject to a 1-3 year ambiguity, so we’re not always clear exactly on when an event happened in the BC era, because it’s hard to pin-point it exactly. You said 721 BC, others say 724 BC, in reference to the dispersion of the Ten Tribes or the Assyrian invasion. Skolfield uses the most agreed upon dates by historians, and that date was 724 BC.

In 724 BC, the last of the Ten Tribes were taken captive by the Assyrians and they were ejected into the Caucus Mountains. This is where the term Caucasian comes from, because the Ten Tribes spread out from there into Europe, where the majority of the white population of the world came from. Some migrated south to Africa, because we come across tribes who know about Yahweh and the ten commandments even before civilization touched them. But most of the Ten Tribes ended up in Europe. That is where the Christian movement ended up primarily going - Europe. And that is where the initial Americans came from.  So, let’s do the prophetic math:

724 BC + 2500 years = 1776 AD, the year the United States became a nation.

The United States fulfills all of the prophecies where as Great Britain fails to fulfill the 2500 year prophecy.

The United States is Ephraim returned.

I am not sure which of Skolfield’s books you have read, but The False Prophet explains these prophecies in detail. I’ve given a VERY rushed explanation. I apologize for that.

Also, let me point out that in Revelation 11, the Two Witnesses are the two lamp stands and the two olive trees before the thrown of God. Revelation 1:20 says lamp stands are churches, and Paul, in Romans, says that the Christians are the wild olive tree and Jews are the native alive tree. Therefore, the two lamp stands and the two olive trees are the Jewish Church and the Christian church. That’s fitting since the time, times and half a time prophecies refer to both the Jewish nation and the Christian nation.

Hope this helps!

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Something I found that seemed interesting...
« on: September 19, 2010, 11:43:25 AM »
THE JEWS ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL


While much of what you said is very much correct, I disagree with the interpretation that Great Britain is Ephraim restored, and I disagree with the state of Israel being destroyed beyond repair in 70 AD, meaning that I believe the Jews were prophesied to come back into their own land again.

I think I'll let Peter take this one, though. I think if he lays out the three "time, times and half a time" prophecies for you, you'll see that they land right on important dates in both the Jew's history and America's history. America completely fulfills all of the prophecies of Ephraim. And I believe the Jews, right now, are just like Christians right now - we have Christians who think they're saved, and Christians whom are saved. I think we have Jews whom are saved and Jews whom are not save, but think they are. I think the Jews are under the Old Covenant and we are under the New Covenant. I think Messianic Jews are under the New Covenant as Christians are.

When you see the prophecies about this, I think you'll probably be convinced. You sound like a pretty well studied individual seeking the truth. Good luck.


17
In regard to good churches, I think people need to start going back to home-churches like the First-Century Church had. And if we cannot have them exactly like that, I think we should at least have them in a Bible study type setting where there is no leader, but rather just someone who lays out a subject matter which everyone can study and then come together and share what they believe God taught them about the subject matter that week. And if God shows them anything else that week, they can share that as well if God's heart moves them to do so.

In that setting, each person gets to learn from God through what He teaches other people, and each person gets to be used by God to teach other people, because everyone participates as God moves their hearts to do so, which is very similar to first-century church practice.

This completely flips the whole modern church structure on its back. People would not be all sitting facing one direction, staring at a pastor, trusting that God speaks to him and he knows the whole truth. They would not get passive in their relationship with God by replacing God with a pastor. They would be engaged and actively used and taught by God in a home-church setting. No one ran home-churches in the first century. The elders simply directed it a bit and let God guide the meeting through each person. Yes, there is a chance for false doctrine, but at least everyone is engaged. At least people are forced to trust in Christ rather than trust in a man and his set guidelines of religious beliefs. The big church thing only happened in the first century when feasts would come around, really. Otherwise, everyone stuck with their home church. Everything comes from the relationship and I think that is what home churches foster as long as they are not run like a regular church. Even being run like a regular church, they are more relationship oriented engaging, to some small degree.

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Something I found that seemed interesting...
« on: September 18, 2010, 10:26:57 AM »
Dangerous ground as you addressed somewhat later.
If a person engages in serial sin, I believe they need to carefully consider the question of their salvation and relationship with Jesus Christ.
I fear too many have been deceived into believing they are saved by simply paying lip service to God in an "alter call". My former pastor would even say "Congratulations, your name is written in the Lamb's book of life!" after the alter call, as if he could know either the condition of their hearts, or God's judgments. I don't think you or I believe that a person is saved simply because they said a sinner's prayer and show up in church once a week, but live like the devil the rest of the week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ_26AE0G_8

I totally agree. If someone engages in serial sin, they really need to examine their salvation experience and ask themself if they truly felt God come in and release all the chains of sin from their life and felt a complete change in their heart at the point of salvation. And if they're not sure, they need to strive with everything they have to "run the race" as Paul says to "ensure their salvation". Because if a person really strives to obey God, if they aren't yet saved, they will be shaping their heart more like His and He will get them to a point where they will accept Him and be saved. And if they are already saved, then it is just good for their soul and their witness. It's a win-win situation.

But they should never get this mindset of "doing" religious things to be "accepted" or "worthy" of God. That is where people get trapped in churches and religion, never realizing that they aren't required to "do" anything to be acceptable by God. They must simply be humble and accept that they are sinners and need salvation, then accept His free gift with open arms and an open heart.

I see two roadblocks to this: 1 - Parenting (because a person's father is from whom they get their concept of God and His love and acceptance) 2 - False representation of God by religion (both Christian and non-Christian religions)

I believe that if fathers were as Christ-like as possible in how they raised their children, and the child's "religious" education is sound about who God is and how He feels toward us, then children would easily accept God and be saved ane exhibit lives which are Christ-like, as well. And many parents simply do not understand how to raise children the right way nowadays, and the parents themselves are both immature and modelling it for their children. The parents who are not immature are disciplining their children in an incorrect manner which fosters a spirit of rebellion in their child instead of self-discipline and personal responsibility, which are the things of God. Immaturity (aka - selfishness) is a huge problem today, along with proper child-rearing.

In the end, though, I don't worry about if someone is or isn't going to be saved. God says He knows the future and He knows everyone's hearts and He makes all things work together for good for those whom are called according to His purpose. And finally, Jesus said that His sheep know His voice and come when they are called. In other words, God's got it worked out and He'll get all the people saved whom He knows will accept Him. And I am not even certain that people will end up in hell eternally either. God says it is His will that EVERYONE comes to repentance and a knowledge of God.

Therefore, if He truly wants everyone to get saved, and He gave us freewill to choose for ourselves, who's to say that the people in hell won't be given a chance to choose Him? The New Testament does say Jesus went back to those spirits in prison from Noah's time to make proclaimation to them. That means He told them He died for their sins and they likely accepted and were saved. If they got that chance, would He not give everyone else that same chance? He is no respector of persons, and so that would mean He would give the same treatment to all, regardless of their offenses.

The Bible appears to say that hell is final, but I am no expert on this, and so I am not sure what God's really going to do in the end. I get the feeling that if there is a way to get everyone saved, He'll do so. But because I cannot back it up scripturally, I just kind of hold on to it as a possibility, and assume that everyone who goes to hell will be stuck there for either eternity, or at least till the end of the age, whenver that is. And my belief of that is strictly from Jesus' parable about Lazarus and the rich man. Who knows? Anymore information on this would be appreciated, but this is not a real important issue. Just one of those obscure things which I am not sure we can know for certain before Christ returns.

19
Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Something I found that seemed interesting...
« on: September 17, 2010, 05:40:31 PM »
The fear that I have of God is this....I don't want to disappoint Him even though my best efforts are but filthy rags to Him.

No one is a disappointment to God. If you have a son, look at your son and all he's done, good and bad, and ask yourself if you could ever see him as a disappointment. Now, most people will say, "I could never see my child as a disappointment, no matter how sinful they are or what awful things they might do." Those people understand God's unconditional love, and they don't even have the capacity to love that God has since God is love itself and the origin of all good deeds according to James. Therefore, if we, as imperfect humans can love our children unconditionally without ever being disappointed in them, then how much more can God love His children without ever an ounce of disappointment?

Also, consider this: God knows the future and absolutely everything everyone will choose and do. Knowing what we're going to do, He would not expect us to do something He knows we will not do. That's counter-intuitive. And for God to be disappointed in someone, God would first have to place expectations on that person, and then that person would have to not meet those expectations. God expects us to be sinners, because that's what we are - sinners by nature. Anything above that is overly joyful for God. Yes, He knows who will accept Jesus' salvation, but everytime it happens, it exceeds His expectations of our sinful nature. And so there is rejoicing in heaven, according to scripture, everytime a person is saved.

While we may feel or actually be disappointments to our human fathers, and while we may often relate our experiences with our human fathers to our relationship with God and who He is, God will never be disappointed in us, ever. Jesus has cleared away all of our sins, and so all possibility of disappointment drifted away with that act of redemption.

Does your church speak in tongues? Do you speak in tongues? You will really want to read Ellis Skolfield's book, Demons in the Church if you speak in tongues or are interested in the topic. It could be eye-opening. I found it very eye-opening and intriguing.

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Something I found that seemed interesting...
« on: September 17, 2010, 05:31:28 PM »
I think I may have a different take on the "fear of God". I have NO idea if I'm correct on this or not. lol  It's just my opinion.

I think it works like this:

- The unsaved should fear God, because they are still under His wrath

However there may be no shortage who believe themselves to be saved, that "live like the devil" as Paul Washer put it.
There is no shortage in the 20-1 century that have said the "sinner's prayer" (popularized in the 20th century church by Billy Graham) that have also been told at that moment that they are saved. Add to that an immature understanding of OSAS (once saved, always saved) and some believe they have a license to continue to engage in serial sin.

Yeah, I agree. The OSAS is very misunderstood. It is true that once a person is saved, they cannot lose it, but that's why Paul says not to use this freedom to go sin again, because you're just enslaving yourself to sin once again. You won't be condemned for it for eternity, but your life on earth will be hell because of it. In reality, a saved person does have a license to be a serial sinner if they so choose it. That's why Paul says, "For us, all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial." One translation says, "For us, all things are lawful, but not all things edify." Since we are no longer under the law of sin and death, we are free to sin. But it's just not a good idea, because it hurts you and others and our witness about who God is, because we are representatives of Him.


Quote
I always try to err on the safe side when it comes to things of God.
Perhaps a good healthy fear of God can help keep one more easily on the straight and narrow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teLvofaVeEA

2Cr 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Speaking for myself, I consider my personal holiness to be somewhat short of being perfected, and it's pretty difficult for me to imagine being in a position to be able to report otherwise in the future.

You said you err on the safe side when it comes to this stuff. I agree, because that's exactly what Paul presents in his letters to sinful churches. He basically said it's not for us to know if someone else is saved, so don't judge, because that's between them and God. Then he also says that a person should run the race with all their might so that they can "be assured of their salvation". What he's doing is saying that there are many out there who think they're saved, but are just fooling themselves. Those are the ones prophesied about who will come before Christ saying they did all kinds of things in His name, and He will say He never knew them. That is why we are told to err on the safe side and really strive with all we have to serve God in purity and try to be self-disciplined in God's ways to be more like Him. Because in doing so, if we are not saved, we will likely encounter Him and we'll choose to be saved at that point, where as if we had not pursued His ways, we may not have ever found His salvation and accepted it.

I don't even view my holienss as existant apart from God. I see myself as Paul stated, a wreched man, in whom there is no good. Even the best human on the planet sins a ton of times a day and doesn't even realize it. We are incapable of living apart from selfishness in this life in one form or another. For me to think I can accomplish something like holiness is sort of delusional. So I simply love and accept myself as I am, and strive daily to strengthen my relationship with God so that He will shape my heart to be more like His. And in doing so, the desire to sin falls away more and more each day. But I do this only out of respect and love for Him and because following His ways benefits my family and others. And I'm not saying you were saying you are holy or anything. Just explaining how I view my "holiness", or lack-there-of, I should say. The only reason I'm holy is because of what Jesus did for me and gave me. I can't improve upon that.

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Pagan Catholic Roots Exposed
« on: September 17, 2010, 09:22:31 AM »
Did you know that when our country began, it was against the law to put up a Christmas tree on December 25th or to have your church unlocked on that day? It was direct rebellion of the Catholic church and their pagan influenced holidays.

I just caught this. Catholic Church or Church of England?

Not sure, to be honest. If the Church of England was doing the same practice, then I would say the Protestants were protesting them both.

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Pagan Catholic Roots Exposed
« on: September 17, 2010, 09:11:56 AM »
Interesting note on this, though I am not certain how true it is, but the gold and silver orbs used to decorate the tree originally were from moon and sun worship.

The silver ones would perhaps represent Ilat, the sun goddess, and then I suppose the gold ones, Allah.

Sura 53.19 Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, 20 And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

I think you have that one backward. The moon is white/grey (both close to silver), and so silver orbs would represent the moon God, Allah. The sun is golden, and thus, the golden balls would be for Ilat.

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Pagan Catholic Roots Exposed
« on: May 21, 2010, 11:55:30 AM »
Interesting note on this, though I am not certain how true it is, but the gold and silver orbs used to decorate the tree originally were from moon and sun worship.

Makes sense. I wouldn't doubt it.

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Pagan Catholic Roots Exposed
« on: May 21, 2010, 09:43:30 AM »
Good question! That's very possible. You'd have to track how long it takes a small evergreen tree to die off and start losing branches I suppose. If it's about 5 months, that'd be about right. Guess you'd have to research the Maypole.

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Judeo-Christian - General / Re: Pagan Catholic Roots Exposed
« on: May 21, 2010, 09:30:44 AM »
Did you know that when our country began, it was against the law to put up a Christmas tree on December 25th or to have your church unlocked on that day? It was direct rebellion of the Catholic church and their pagan influenced holidays.

In my honest opinion, it is all in how you worship. I celebrate Christmas strictly for Jesus and as a good excuse to give to others. When I have kids, I'm going to take them to orphanages or homeless shelters on Christmas and have them give some of their old toys to kids who have none so they can understand what it is to give to someone whom does not have anything. I've heard that kids enjoy this far more than receiving tons of gifts if you start this at an early age. I'm also going to request that my family not buy my kids hardly any gifts, or maybe they all chip in together to get one or two nice gifts, and that's it. I don't want my kids to become like other kids who get all kinds of gifts and are still not satisfied and think that's what the holiday is all about. We're not trying to worship a false god nowadays. Many people really are celebrating Jesus. So I don't condemn the practice, though, I will tell me children where the practice has its roots so they understand the truth.

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