Abraham on "Spoils of War - Booty" (Quran chapter 8 title)

[Peter]

Muslims suggest suggest kinship to a "faith of Abraham", so let's look at what Abraham did, after vanquishing God's enemies (not God's people like Mohammed did), when the vanquished even requested that he take their property.

Genesis 14.20  And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.  21  And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22  And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,    23  That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=951.0

Compare that with Mohammed's thievery, even claiming 1/5 of all of the property of others for himself, just like a Mafia Don. Muslims have even been deluded into believing that they follow the law. So where does the law put Mohammed?

Exd 20:15    Thou shalt not steal.

Does Mohammed's behavior fare any better under the new covenant?

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=879.0

Indeed as one poster in here inadvertently disclosed, it wasn't God that called for the slaughter of 800 to 1000 Jewish farm tending boys and men, and the rape and sexual enslavement of their wives and daughters, while selling into slavery their small children and old women, then stealing their property.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0
Rather  Mohammed deferred to his boy Sa'd b. Mu'adh who passed sentence on the Banu Qurayza.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7909#msg7909

[Mujaheed]

Muslims suggest suggest kinship to a "faith of Abraham", so let's look at what Abraham did, after vanquishing God's enemies (not God's people like Mohammed did), when the vanquished even requested that he take their property.

Genesis 14.20  And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.  21  And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22  And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,    23  That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=951.0

Compare that with Mohammed's thievery, even claiming 1/5 of all of the property of others for himself, just like a Mafia Don. Muslims have even been deluded into believing that they follow the law. So where does the law put Mohammed?

Exd 20:15    Thou shalt not steal.

Does Mohammed's behavior fare any better under the new covenant?

1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=879.0

Indeed as one poster in here inadvertently disclosed, it wasn't God that called for the slaughter of 800 to 1000 Jewish farm tending boys and men, and the rape and sexual enslavement of their wives and daughters, while selling into slavery their small children and old women, then stealing their property.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0
Rather  Mohammed deferred to his boy Sa'd b. Mu'adh who passed sentence on the Banu Qurayza.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7909#msg7909

IS WAR BOOTY STEALING? WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT STATE WAR BOOTY IS STEALING, A CONQUERED NATION MUST REBEL AND CAUSE MORE PEOPLE TO DIE?

WHER IN THE BIBLE IS THERE NOT MURDER MAYHEM INCEST AND FIRE AND WRATH AND REVENGE AND SMITING AND KILLING OF SOMEONE OR SOMETHING INCLUDING A GOD

[Peter]

IS WAR BOOTY STEALING? WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT STATE WAR BOOTY IS STEALING, A CONQUERED NATION MUST REBEL AND CAUSE MORE PEOPLE TO DIE?

WHER IN THE BIBLE IS THERE NOT MURDER MAYHEM INCEST AND FIRE AND WRATH AND REVENGE AND SMITING AND KILLING OF SOMEONE OR SOMETHING INCLUDING A GOD

"By Mohammed's day, 1,500 years had passed since any Hebrew prophet was described in the Old Testament as using a sword in the service of God. Neither Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Micah, Amos, Malachi nor any other later Hebrew prophet is described as using the sword or prescribing its use."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=935.0

In the new covenant/New Testament accounts of Jesus and His followers they don't engage in violent behavior either. That's the whole point. It's how the 1600 year record, of the progressive revelation of God to mankind, closed with the arrival of the Messiah.

John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[resistingrexmundi]

IS WAR BOOTY STEALING? WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT STATE WAR BOOTY IS STEALING, A CONQUERED NATION MUST REBEL AND CAUSE MORE PEOPLE TO DIE?

It is when you enter into that war unjustly as Muhammad did on numerous occasions. He even sent letters to the surrounding rulers, the most famous of all to Heraclius, threatening them to convert, pay jizya, or die. Why could Muhammad not do as the apostles did and simply teach and preach and if God willed his message to spread no violence would have been necessary?

WHER IN THE BIBLE IS THERE NOT MURDER MAYHEM INCEST AND FIRE AND WRATH AND REVENGE AND SMITING AND KILLING OF SOMEONE OR SOMETHING INCLUDING A GOD

The Bible does indeed include examples of those things. The difference is that it also condemns those unrighteous actions. The case of incest that springs to mind in the OT no less was not met with God's approval. Later when the Law did come down God specifically condemned it. Cases of murder have always been met with God's disapproval even before the Law. Any war that God commanded in the Bible was in the OT before the New Covenant that allowed ALL nations free access to God and God gave good reasons. In one case the enemies God sent Israel against were putting their children on hot brazen idols as sacrafices. God did not command the Israelites to war with people simply because they disagreed with their theology and He certainly did not command them to convert people by the edge of a sword. And as has been highlighted in this forum on numerous occassions the Bible is a progressive revelation. As time passed man's knowledge of God and what He wanted became more clear. There are no incitements to violence or bloodshed in the NT. God's final word on the matter is to love one another as He loves us and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. We are to turn the other cheek. It can be hard at times but I trust that God will grant justice and I need not seek revenge.

[Mujaheed]

IS WAR BOOTY STEALING? WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT STATE WAR BOOTY IS STEALING, A CONQUERED NATION MUST REBEL AND CAUSE MORE PEOPLE TO DIE?

It is when you enter into that war unjustly as Muhammad did on numerous occasions. He even sent letters to the surrounding rulers, the most famous of all to Heraclius, threatening them to convert, pay jizya, or die. Why could Muhammad not do as the apostles did and simply teach and preach and if God willed his message to spread no violence would have been necessary?

WHER IN THE BIBLE IS THERE NOT MURDER MAYHEM INCEST AND FIRE AND WRATH AND REVENGE AND SMITING AND KILLING OF SOMEONE OR SOMETHING INCLUDING A GOD

The Bible does indeed include examples of those things. The difference is that it also condemns those unrighteous actions. The case of incest that springs to mind in the OT no less was not met with God's approval. Later when the Law did come down God specifically condemned it. Cases of murder have always been met with God's disapproval even before the Law. Any war that God commanded in the Bible was in the OT before the New Covenant that allowed ALL nations free access to God and God gave good reasons. In one case the enemies God sent Israel against were putting their children on hot brazen idols as sacrafices. God did not command the Israelites to war with people simply because they disagreed with their theology and He certainly did not command them to convert people by the edge of a sword. And as has been highlighted in this forum on numerous occassions the Bible is a progressive revelation. As time passed man's knowledge of God and what He wanted became more clear. There are no incitements to violence or bloodshed in the NT. God's final word on the matter is to love one another as He loves us and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. We are to turn the other cheek. It can be hard at times but I trust that God will grant justice and I need not seek revenge.

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly? Please show us the contents. Here lett me show how you tell lies
Muhammad Letter to Chosroes, Emperor of Persia
“In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
From Muhammad, the Messenger of Allâh to Chosroes, king of Persia.
Peace be upon him who follows true guidance, believes in Allâh and His Messenger and testifies that there is no god but Allâh Alone with no associate, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger. I invite you to accept the religion of Allâh. I am the Messenger of Allâh sent to all people in order that I may infuse fear of Allâh in every living person, and that the charge may be proved against those who reject the Truth. Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians.”
‘Abdullah bin Hudhafa As-Sahmi was chosen to carry the letter. Abdullah got his camel ready and bade farewell to his wife and son. He set out, alone, and traversed mountains and valleys until he reached the land of the Persians.

The King on reading the letter became enraged with anger, tore it into little pieces and Abdullah managed to leave Persia.When Khusraw's anger had subsided he commanded that Abdullah be brought before him. But Abdullah was nowhere to be found. They searched for him all the way to the Arabian peninsula but found that he had gone ahead.
Back in Madinah, Abdullah told the Prophet how Khusraw had torn his letter to pieces and the Prophet's only reply was, "May God tear up his kingdom".
Meanwhile, Khusraw wrote to Badhan, his deputy in the Yemen, to send two strong men to "that man who has appeared in the Hijaz" with orders to bring him to Persia.
Badhan dispatched two of his strongest men to the Prophet and gave them a letter to him in which he was ordered to go with the two men to meet Khusraw without delay. Badhan also asked the two men to get whatever information they could on the Prophet and to study his message closely.
The men set out, moving very quickly. At Taif they met some Quraysh traders and asked them about Muhammad. "He is in Yathrib," they said and they went on to Makkah feeling extremely happy. This was good news for them and they went around telling other Quraysh, "You will be pleased. Khusraw is out to get Muhammad and you will be rid of his evil."
The two men meanwhile made straight for Madinah where they met the Prophet, handed him the letter of Badhan and said to him, "The king of kings, Khusraw, has written to our ruler Badhan to send his men to get you. We have come to take you with us. If you come willingly, Khusraw has said that it will be good for you and he will spare you any punishment. If you refuse, you will know the power of his punishment. He has power to destroy you and your people."
The Prophet smiled and said to them, "Go back to your mounts today and return tomorrow."
On the following day, they came to the Prophet and said to him, "Are you prepared to go with us to meet Khusraw?"
"You shall not meet Khusraw after today," replied the Prophet. "God has killed him and his son Shirwaih has taken his place on such a night and on such a month."
The two men stared in the face of the Prophet. They were completely dumbfounded.
"Do you know what you are saying?" they asked. "Shall we write about this to Badhan?"
"Yes," replied the Prophet, "and say to him that my religion has informed me about what has happened to the Kingdom of Khusraw and that if he should become Muslim, I would appoint him ruler over what he now controls".
The two men returned to the Yemen and told Badhan what had happened. Badhan said, "If what Muhammad has said is true, then he is a Prophet. If not then we shall see what happens to him."
Not long afterwards a letter from Shirwaih came to Badhan in which he said, "I killed Khusraw because of his tyranny against our people. He regarded as lawful the killing of leaders, the capturing of their women and the expropriating of their wealth. When this my letter reaches you, take the allegiance of whoever is with you on my behalf."
As soon as Badhan had read Shirwaih's letter, he threw it aside and announced his entry into Islam. The Persians with him in the Yemen also became Muslim.
That's the story of Abdullah ibn Hudhafah's meeting with the Persian king. His meeting with the Byzantine emperor took place during the caliphate of Umar ibn al-Khattab. It too is an astonishing story.

In Islam, not allowing people to come to know the worship of ALLAH freely is considered the worse form of oppression.
In the letters to the Kings a request is made to enter peacefully and in the case of Jerusalem it was a Command of UMR Ib Khatab that the Army should enter the City peacefully

[resistingrexmundi]

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly? Please show us the contents. Here lett me show how you tell lies

This is the second time you have been rude to me. I will ask you again to not level baseless accusations.

Muhammad Letter to Chosroes, Emperor of Persia
“In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
From Muhammad, the Messenger of Allâh to Chosroes, king of Persia.
Peace be upon him who follows true guidance, believes in Allâh and His Messenger and testifies that there is no god but Allâh Alone with no associate, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger. I invite you to accept the religion of Allâh. I am the Messenger of Allâh sent to all people in order that I may infuse fear of Allâh in every living person, and that the charge may be proved against those who reject the Truth. Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians.”

First I mentioned the letter to Heraclius. Second you have made my point. Let me show you.

"... Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians."

That thinly veiled threat would enrage anyone. Imagine if you were a king and someone you had never heard of sent a letter telling you to change everything you had ever believed or you would not be secure?

In Islam, not allowing people to come to know the worship of ALLAH freely is considered the worse form of oppression.
In the letters to the Kings a request is made to enter peacefully and in the case of Jerusalem it was a Command of UMR Ib Khatab that the Army should enter the City peacefully

In common sense allowing people to decide what they wish to believe is showing faith that God will lead those who will listen to the truth. Muhammad used that backward logic to justify forcing his beliefs on others through violence, monetary oppression and threats.

[Peter]

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly?

Imperialistic conquest, and subjugation of those vanquished to the will of the aggressor, is never just and is always of Satan. In other words, all the wars Mohammed and his fellow reprobates engaged in.
It's easy to understand how Mohammed was able to quickly raise a band of reprobates once he picked up the sword. Men that were in it so they could rape and sexually enslaved, the girls and women of the vanquished, and steal their property. But what's in it for you, besides the eternal consequences reaped, from engaging in Mohammed's recycled Quraish pagan rituals?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8258#msg8258

By the way I want to thank you for focusing on the threads that we have going, and would appreciate it if you continue not to open new threads or post in additional threads, until we work our way through these core issues. That will help keep confusion down.
And remember nobody is sitting around drumming their fingers on a desk. Take as much time as you need to develop direct and concise answers.

[Mujaheed]

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly?

Imperialistic conquest, and subjugation of those vanquished to the will of the aggressor, is never just and is always of Satan. In other words, all the wars Mohammed and his fellow reprobates engaged in.
It's easy to understand how Mohammed was able to quickly raise a band of reprobates once he picked up the sword. Men that were in it so they could rape and sexually enslaved, the girls and women of the vanquished, and steal their property. But what's in it for you, besides the eternal consequences reaped, from engaging in Mohammed's recycled Quraish pagan rituals?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8258#msg8258

By the way I want to thank you for focusing on the threads that we have going, and would appreciate it if you continue not to open new threads or post in additional threads, until we work our way through these core issues. That will help keep confusion down.
And remember nobody is sitting around drumming their fingers on a desk. Take as much time as you need to develop direct and concise answers.

The answer is as the question, hurried and with no thought as it is easy to distiguish falsehood from truth like your last personal, unqaulified conjecture that has absolutely no supporting evidence once again, You prove over and over again that the quran is 100% accurate about jews and christians!

[Peter]

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly?

Imperialistic conquest, and subjugation of those vanquished to the will of the aggressor, is never just and is always of Satan. In other words, all the wars Mohammed and his fellow reprobates engaged in.
It's easy to understand how Mohammed was able to quickly raise a band of reprobates once he picked up the sword. Men that were in it so they could rape and sexually enslaved, the girls and women of the vanquished, and steal their property. But what's in it for you, besides the eternal consequences reaped, from engaging in Mohammed's recycled Quraish pagan rituals?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8258#msg8258

By the way I want to thank you for focusing on the threads that we have going, and would appreciate it if you continue not to open new threads or post in additional threads, until we work our way through these core issues. That will help keep confusion down.
And remember nobody is sitting around drumming their fingers on a desk. Take as much time as you need to develop direct and concise answers.

The answer is as the question, hurried and with no thought as it is easy to distiguish falsehood from truth like your last personal, unqaulified conjecture that has absolutely no supporting evidence once again, You prove over and over again that the quran is 100% accurate about jews and christians!

Are you actually trying to deny the recorded history of Mohammedan imperialistic conquest, from Mecca, all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria?
If not, then it is obviously you, that is wallowing in the falsehood, that you falsely declare.
If you are denying it then you are more illiterate than the false prophet that you follow.

[Mujaheed]

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly? Imperialistic conquest, and subjugation of those vanquished to the will of the aggressor, is never just and is always of Satan. In other words, all the wars Mohammed and his fellow reprobates engaged in. It's easy to understand how Mohammed was able to quickly raise a band of reprobates once he picked up the sword. Men that were in it so they could rape and sexually enslaved, the girls and women of the vanquished, and steal their property. But what's in it for you, besides the eternal consequences reaped, from engaging in Mohammed's recycled Quraish pagan rituals? http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8258#msg8258 By the way I want to thank you for focusing on the threads that we have going, and would appreciate it if you continue not to open new threads or post in additional threads, until we work our way through these core issues. That will help keep confusion down. And remember nobody is sitting around drumming their fingers on a desk. Take as much time as you need to develop direct and concise answers. The answer is as the question, hurried and with no thought as it is easy to distiguish falsehood from truth like your last personal, unqaulified conjecture that has absolutely no supporting evidence once again, You prove over and over again that the quran is 100% accurate about jews and christians! Are you actually trying to deny the recorded history of Mohammedan imperialistic conquest, from Mecca, all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria? If not, then it is obviously you, that is wallowing in the falsehood, that you falsely declare. If you are denying it then you are more illiterate than the false prophet that you follow.

Firstly it was not an imperialistic conquest Muhammad never crowned himself and the very idea of a monarchy is completely foreign to Islam, WE HAVE RIGHTEOUS LEADERS DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED (IMAMS) (ARABS IS A SMALL MINORITY IN ISLAM)
Secondly: the benefit to the lands far exceeded the impact of the invasion, list the number of cities destroyed against the number that became civilised

Your opinion makes the Islamic invasions sound like the Hordes of Gengis Khan and the Crusaders that murdered and destroyed everything in their path

It would serve you better if you could please substantiate your conjecture with facts, the use of negative connotations in indicative of the condition of your own heart, which I am starting to realise needs the love of a Muslim like me. My dear friend I am doing all I can to just get you to a level plain, in order to be able to discuss issues on a non judgmental platform. IF WE CAN DO THAT A LOT MORE WILL BE ACHIEVED IN THIS FORUM

[Peter]

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly? Imperialistic conquest, and subjugation of those vanquished to the will of the aggressor, is never just and is always of Satan. In other words, all the wars Mohammed and his fellow reprobates engaged in. It's easy to understand how Mohammed was able to quickly raise a band of reprobates once he picked up the sword. Men that were in it so they could rape and sexually enslaved, the girls and women of the vanquished, and steal their property. But what's in it for you, besides the eternal consequences reaped, from engaging in Mohammed's recycled Quraish pagan rituals? http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8258#msg8258 By the way I want to thank you for focusing on the threads that we have going, and would appreciate it if you continue not to open new threads or post in additional threads, until we work our way through these core issues. That will help keep confusion down. And remember nobody is sitting around drumming their fingers on a desk. Take as much time as you need to develop direct and concise answers. The answer is as the question, hurried and with no thought as it is easy to distiguish falsehood from truth like your last personal, unqaulified conjecture that has absolutely no supporting evidence once again, You prove over and over again that the quran is 100% accurate about jews and christians! Are you actually trying to deny the recorded history of Mohammedan imperialistic conquest, from Mecca, all the way up to Tours France and Vienna Austria? If not, then it is obviously you, that is wallowing in the falsehood, that you falsely declare. If you are denying it then you are more illiterate than the false prophet that you follow.

Firstly it was not an imperialistic conquest Muhammad never crowned himself and the very idea of a monarchy is completely foreign to Islam, .......

Who said anything about a monarchy? You could save a lot of time and space here by not bringing in unrelated subjects, and if you looked terms up before you write about them.
im·pe·ri·al·ism  (m-pîr--lzm)
n.
1. The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.
2. The system, policies, or practices of such a government.

Some countries purchase other lands. Other countries saw the benefit in combining with others and VOLUNTARILY DECIDED to do that.
Islam extended it boundaries through the sword. Through thoroughly reprobate murder, rape pillage and plunder.

...... WE HAVE RIGHTEOUS LEADERS DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED (IMAMS) .......

Indeed. Like the "righteous" men that sent girls back into a burning school, for having the audacity to try to escape the flames, without wearing head coverings. Killing 15 of them. After all, those righteous men knew what was really important.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=855.0

...... (ARABS IS A SMALL MINORITY IN ISLAM)
Secondly: the benefit to the lands far exceeded the impact of the invasion, list the number of cities destroyed against the number that became civilised

I see. Civilizations that had produced the first mechanical computer 700 years before Mohammed, let alone the engineering of the ancient Greeks long before that, needed to be "civilized" in the 7th century by a bunch illiterate cutthroat Arabian murderous, rapist, thieves. Indeed, by the time the caliphate got to France they were dragging along so much property stolen from others, that it impeded their escape from the hand of Charles Martel.

You see, the problem with your preposterous self-delusion is, those people didn't want to live under the subjugation and oppression of a bunch of illiterate Arabian reprobates. That is what makes every Islamic conquest unjust. The people didn't want to be subjugated and enslaved by a satanic cult, whose behavior was so reprobate, it would have made Satan himself blush.

Your opinion makes the Islamic invasions sound like the Hordes of Gengis Khan and the Crusaders that murdered and destroyed everything in their path

Sorry my friend, it is not my opinion but the Mohammedans own books, that handily accomplish that.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1528.0

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, 'We went out with Allah's Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus.'"

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

[Mujaheed]

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly? Imperialistic conquest, and subjugation of those vanquished to the will of the aggressor, is never just and is always of Satan. In other words, all the wars Mohammed and his fellow reprobates engaged in. It's easy to understand how Mohammed was able to quickly raise a band of reprobates once he picked up the sword. Men that were in it so they could rape and sexually enslaved, the girls and women of the vanquished, and steal their property. But what's in it for you, besides the eternal consequences reaped, from engaging in Mohammed's recycled Quraish pagan rituals? http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8258#msg8258 DO YOU HAVE THE SAME ANSWER FPR EVERY SINGLE POST? DID YOU NOT USE THE WORDS "IMPERIALISTC" ?? I AM SERIOUSLY QUESTIONING YOUR SANITY AT THIS POINT!!!!!!!

[Peter]

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

[Mujaheed]

Which war did Muhammad enter into unjustly? Please show us the contents. Here lett me show how you tell lies

This is the second time you have been rude to me. I will ask you again to not level baseless accusations.

Muhammad Letter to Chosroes, Emperor of Persia
“In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
From Muhammad, the Messenger of Allâh to Chosroes, king of Persia.
Peace be upon him who follows true guidance, believes in Allâh and His Messenger and testifies that there is no god but Allâh Alone with no associate, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger. I invite you to accept the religion of Allâh. I am the Messenger of Allâh sent to all people in order that I may infuse fear of Allâh in every living person, and that the charge may be proved against those who reject the Truth. Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians.”

First I mentioned the letter to Heraclius. Second you have made my point. Let me show you.

"... Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians."

That thinly veiled threat would enrage anyone. Imagine if you were a king and someone you had never heard of sent a letter telling you to change everything you had ever believed or you would not be secure?

In Islam, not allowing people to come to know the worship of ALLAH freely is considered the worse form of oppression.
In the letters to the Kings a request is made to enter peacefully and in the case of Jerusalem it was a Command of UMR Ib Khatab that the Army should enter the City peacefully

In common sense allowing people to decide what they wish to believe is showing faith that God will lead those who will listen to the truth. Muhammad used that backward logic to justify forcing his beliefs on others through violence, monetary oppression and threats.

ANY unjust leader that refuses progress (muslim countries included) must be overthrown and replaced by a just ruler (whatever his religion) all the conquests Muhammad engaged in were with unjust arrogant rulers that refused their people the right to know THE GOD and to make up their own minds. Islamic taxation is 2.5 % and all Governments hate that low figure.

Your opinions that are unfounded are lies, you state your opnion and when I show you the truth it changes for example THREATS OF DEATH IS NOW VEILED THREATS) it is not a veiled threat, it is an appeal to common sense and as you said LOVE IS YOUR WILLINGNESS TO DIE FOR YOUR FRIEND, Well I would like to be the friend of ALLAH and I would like to bring you the truth of ALLAH and If you kill me in that process then I am victorious and If i live and you accept Islam then we all are victorious.

I cannot guide you but I can request to enter your country freely (visa applications today suffices) to bring as many people the message of Truth. ALLAH will guide you based on your sincerity to know the truth.

I cannot assume that I am saved as I am living my life as a human and even though my bad deeds are minimised I must strengthen my belief on a daily basis and in that process I have to seek guidance and forgiveness for my sins and pride and incorrect faith.

That is the way the WAR IS FOUGHT by MUHAMAD AND THE FOLLOWERS OF MUHAMMAD.

[resistingrexmundi]

ANY unjust leader that refuses progress (muslim countries included) must be overthrown and replaced by a just ruler (whatever his religion) all the conquests Muhammad engaged in were with unjust arrogant rulers that refused their people the right to know THE GOD and to make up their own minds. Islamic taxation is 2.5 % and all Governments hate that low figure.

The Islamic idea of unjust and the one everyone else ascribes to is different. Religions constantly spread in cross cultural exchanges without the use of swords. You have just inferred though that Muhammad spread Islam through war. At least you are more honest about that than most muslims.

Your opinions that are unfounded are lies, you state your opnion and when I show you the truth it changes for example THREATS OF DEATH IS NOW VEILED THREATS) it is not a veiled threat, it is an appeal to common sense and as you said LOVE IS YOUR WILLINGNESS TO DIE FOR YOUR FRIEND, Well I would like to be the friend of ALLAH and I would like to bring you the truth of ALLAH and If you kill me in that process then I am victorious and If i live and you accept Islam then we all are victorious.

I have asked you on more than one occasion to cease insulting me. I will ask one more time. I have thus far refused to enter into a direct attack on you through name calling why do you persist with me? Further more I showed the thinly veiled threat in the letter you used, as opposed to the one I mentioned.

"... Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians."

Allow me to clarify. Imagine you were a king and you recieved a letter from me, a military ruler at the head of an army, that told you to accept Hinduism so you could be secure or else you would be responsible for your muslim citizens sins? Would that not upset you? Would you not see the threat that was represented their? Especially given that when word was sent back to you that others that rejected my invitation were conquered in war? I understand Islam propogates by war. It is commanded.

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

But Christianity spread without the use of swords. Why couldn't Muhammad have been content preaching and allowing others to make up their mind?

I cannot guide you but I can request to enter your country freely (visa applications today suffices) to bring as many people the message of Truth. ALLAH will guide you based on your sincerity to know the truth.

Then you need not even enter the country. If Allah will guide me based on my sincerity then I can seek out the truth on the internet. Furthermore if Muhammad had entered those countries peacefully first and preached instead of demand conversion at sword point we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I cannot assume that I am saved as I am living my life as a human and even though my bad deeds are minimised I must strengthen my belief on a daily basis and in that process I have to seek guidance and forgiveness for my sins and pride and incorrect faith.

I don't have to assume I am saved. I know it because God guaranteed it the moment I trusted in Him and Him alone to save me. He transformed my life into something wonderful. I don't need to do good deeds to earn salvation. He gave it to me freely. But I do good deeds because I love Him and want to. That is the key difference.

That is the way the WAR IS FOUGHT by MUHAMAD AND THE FOLLOWERS OF MUHAMMAD.

And yet you fail to see how unjust it is to force others to believe the way you do? Amazing. I have confidence that God will draw all those who seek Him without having to resort to force.

Jhn 6:45   It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 

Teach. Then God will draw them.

1Cr 3:7   So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 

One may plant(teach) one may water(pray) but God gives the increase(draws men into saving faith of Christ). No need to resort to war.

[Peter]

At least folks browsing this forum suffering under the delusion of the taqiyyah peddled by Islam's liars - that is the preposterous notion that Islam is peaceful - can see by our Muslim friend that true Muslims that follow their false prophet Mohammed, indeed do pose a very real and physical threat to non-Muslims and to our children's future. You can be disabused of any false impression other than the Islamists goal to subjugate the free people of the world, and attempting to force them to submit to Mohammed's pagan and reprobate demi-god "Allah" - that is to say Mohammed. As if the 2 million killed in the Sudan alone leaves anything to the imagination.

This even as some Sunnis and Shiites hatred for and bloodshed against, each others innocent men, women and children, is perhaps eclipsed only by their hatred for Jews and other non-Muslims - despite their lip service to the contrary.
As if 1400 years of Islamic attacks against non-Muslims weren't enough to clue Muslim apologists, let alone the words of perhaps the most consummate terrorist in the history of the world, left anything to the imagination.

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

[Mujaheed]

ANY unjust leader that refuses progress (muslim countries included) must be overthrown and replaced by a just ruler (whatever his religion) all the conquests Muhammad engaged in were with unjust arrogant rulers that refused their people the right to know THE GOD and to make up their own minds. Islamic taxation is 2.5 % and all Governments hate that low figure.

The Islamic idea of unjust and the one everyone else ascribes to is different. Religions constantly spread in cross cultural exchanges without the use of swords. You have just inferred though that Muhammad spread Islam through war. At least you are more honest about that than most muslims.

Your opinions that are unfounded are lies, you state your opnion and when I show you the truth it changes for example THREATS OF DEATH IS NOW VEILED THREATS) it is not a veiled threat, it is an appeal to common sense and as you said LOVE IS YOUR WILLINGNESS TO DIE FOR YOUR FRIEND, Well I would like to be the friend of ALLAH and I would like to bring you the truth of ALLAH and If you kill me in that process then I am victorious and If i live and you accept Islam then we all are victorious.

I have asked you on more than one occasion to cease insulting me. I will ask one more time. I have thus far refused to enter into a direct attack on you through name calling why do you persist with me? Further more I showed the thinly veiled threat in the letter you used, as opposed to the one I mentioned.

"... Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians."

Allow me to clarify. Imagine you were a king and you recieved a letter from me, a military ruler at the head of an army, that told you to accept Hinduism so you could be secure or else you would be responsible for your muslim citizens sins? Would that not upset you? Would you not see the threat that was represented their? Especially given that when word was sent back to you that others that rejected my invitation were conquered in war? I understand Islam propogates by war. It is commanded.

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

You are misquoting the Quran the verse 38 and 39 is a response to the continuos oslaught against the muslims, muslims are persecuted and when they defend themselves you accuse them of making war.

But Christianity spread without the use of swords. Why couldn't Muhammad have been content preaching and allowing others to make up their mind?

Did you forget the persecution of paul himself? aginst Christians, do you forget the price the true followers of Jesus had to pay for not retaliating? they were anihilated by the New religion called christainity that outlawed the Religion of Jesus and burnt all the scripture that did not agree with their version. Not to mention the all the wars in the name of the church. According to you they not Christians but you hail the French Christians for driving back the Muslims? ARE YOU A HYPOCRITE? (not an insult it is a question you need not answer.

I cannot guide you but I can request to enter your country freely (visa applications today suffices) to bring as many people the message of Truth. ALLAH will guide you based on your sincerity to know the truth.

Then you need not even enter the country. If Allah will guide me based on my sincerity then I can seek out the truth on the internet. Furthermore if Muhammad had entered those countries peacefully first and preached instead of demand conversion at sword point we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I cannot assume that I am saved as I am living my life as a human and even though my bad deeds are minimised I must strengthen my belief on a daily basis and in that process I have to seek guidance and forgiveness for my sins and pride and incorrect faith.

I don't have to assume I am saved. I know it because God guaranteed it the moment I trusted in Him and Him alone to save me. He transformed my life into something wonderful. I don't need to do good deeds to earn salvation. He gave it to me freely. But I do good deeds because I love Him and want to. That is the key difference.

That is the way the WAR IS FOUGHT by MUHAMAD AND THE FOLLOWERS OF MUHAMMAD.

And yet you fail to see how unjust it is to force others to believe the way you do? Amazing. I have confidence that God will draw all those who seek Him without having to resort to force.

Jhn 6:45   It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 

Teach. Then God will draw them.

1Cr 3:7   So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 

One may plant(teach) one may water(pray) but God gives the increase(draws men into saving faith of Christ). No need to resort to war.

GOD garuntees paradise for those who follow the first command
THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE! Not three in one not a human being not a Ghost or Spirit for HE is Jealous GOD that will pour his wrath on all that ascribe partners to him.

God fulfilled that Promise in Jesus and Muhammad who was sent to teach The Jews and Mankind respectively of the true worship of GOD,

YOU CANNOT TEACH YOURSELF THE QURAN, You A MUSHRIHK, (OERSON THAT ASCRIBES PARTNERS TO GOD) YOU CANNOT BE RIGHTLY GUIDED OR UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD IN THAT CONDITION.

THE QURAN IS A GUIDANCE FOR THOSE THAT ARE BELIEVE IN THE UNITY AND UNIQUENESS OF GOD not those that believe as their forefathers believed.

[Peter]

GOD garuntees paradise for those who follow the first command
THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE! Not three in one not a human being not a Ghost or Spirit for HE is Jealous GOD that will pour his wrath on all that ascribe partners to him.

God fulfilled that Promise in Jesus and Muhammad who was sent to teach The Jews and Mankind respectively of the true worship of GOD,

YOU CANNOT TEACH YOURSELF THE QURAN, You A MUSHRIHK, (OERSON THAT ASCRIBES PARTNERS TO GOD) YOU CANNOT BE RIGHTLY GUIDED OR UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD IN THAT CONDITION.

That's right. As you have shown a person must first reconcile themselves to believing that murder of innocents, rape of their wives, sisters, mothers and children, and theft of their property, is OK in the eyes of Mohammed's demi-god "Allah" (who was actually Mohammed himself, and named after a pagan Arabian deity).
Any sane person that learns that Mohammed's "Allah" gave him all the wives he wanted to satiate his fleshly lusts, but only for him, would draw the obvious conclusion.

THE QURAN IS A GUIDANCE FOR THOSE THAT ARE BELIEVE IN THE UNITY AND UNIQUENESS OF GOD not those that believe as their forefathers believed.

[resistingrexmundi]

You are misquoting the Quran the verse 38 and 39 is a response to the continuos oslaught against the muslims, muslims are persecuted and when they defend themselves you accuse them of making war.

I am not misquoting it. It was left open-ended and applied many times over throughout Muhammad's career and those of his followers. Nothing calls for the unabated wholesale slaughter of others that do not believe the way you do.

Did you forget the persecution of paul himself? aginst Christians, do you forget the price the true followers of Jesus had to pay for not retaliating? they were anihilated by the New religion called christainity that outlawed the Religion of Jesus and burnt all the scripture that did not agree with their version. Not to mention the all the wars in the name of the church. According to you they not Christians but you hail the French Christians for driving back the Muslims? ARE YOU A HYPOCRITE? (not an insult it is a question you need not answer.

I find it odd you believe the part of Paul's testimony about persecuting the church but conveniently forget his conversion and repentance. Furthermore there is no evidence suggesting that any scripture predating the Gospel records we have were destroyed. Later versions that pulled in gnostic themes and other such nonsense were denounced, some were destroyed but most just lay hidden. The Nag Hammadi library is a collection of later gnostic texts that not only deviate from the earliest records but they play up Jesus' deity even more suggesting that the OT God and He were different entities at war with one another and He would vanquish the OT God. Others focused on Jesus being pure spirit with only the allusion of flesh. So you can wish all you want that those other texts were the "true" scriptures but it takes you even further down the road of Jesus' deity. The few that play up His humanity make no overt claims one way or the other and are all incomplete with no way of knowing what all was written. But no matter how you slice it the earliest texts we have are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Besides I wouldn't trust someone who lived 600 years after the fact who was ignorant of God's name to know more than those who lived in Jesus' lifetime.

GOD garuntees paradise for those who follow the first command
THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE! Not three in one not a human being not a Ghost or Spirit for HE is Jealous GOD that will pour his wrath on all that ascribe partners to him.

Incorrect. Allah only guaranteed paradise for those who died in Muhammad's version of martyrdom. Even Muhammad expressed ignorance of whether he was going to heaven or hell and since he didn't die a martyr it may make other muslims wonder too.

God fulfilled that Promise in Jesus and Muhammad who was sent to teach The Jews and Mankind respectively of the true worship of GOD,

God sent Jesus to the Jews first and then to the rest of the world.

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Muhammad never enters into the equation. His behavior is enough by itself to warn me of any message he teaches.

YOU CANNOT TEACH YOURSELF THE QURAN, You A MUSHRIHK, (OERSON THAT ASCRIBES PARTNERS TO GOD) YOU CANNOT BE RIGHTLY GUIDED OR UNDERSTAND THE WORD OF GOD IN THAT CONDITION.

You cannot understand the Bible still being a natural man. You have to open your heart and accept Jesus in order to understand spiritual things.

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But if me understanding the Qur'an means I have to accept Muhammad's word that his word is true then I would have to abandon all logic and reason to do so. My God has given testimony to the truth of His word to me many times over. I do not need the Qur'an for anything other than showing others its' darkness.

THE QURAN IS A GUIDANCE FOR THOSE THAT ARE BELIEVE IN THE UNITY AND UNIQUENESS OF GOD not those that believe as their forefathers believed.

Then why is over half of it abrogated? Why does Muhammad claim to have had satan's words cast onto his tongue? How do we know this didn't happen more than once? If Muhammad didn't know the difference between satan's voice and "Allah's" then how do we trust him anyway? You can keep the Qur'an. But I tell you what. I will read a chapter of the Qur'an (again) if you will read a chapter of any of the Gospels and we can discuss them together. How about that?