Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

Dear  thank you for your openness. in reading gospel it seems to me Jesus was not the Messiah; i'd like to know your opinions ,sir. here is my point of view below

Jesus is  Elias  he came only to annouce the Messiah


I-all the believers living at Jesus's time still was waiting for the Messiah

John 7/31 : " 31 But of the people many believed in him, and said: When the Christ cometh, shall he do
more miracles, than these which this man doth?"
words : him , this man reffer to Jesus.
verb come is in future
i understand Jesus is not the Messiah but he came only to announce him.

II-Jesus refuse the title of the Messiah

Marc 8/27 : " 27 And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi. And in the way, he asked his disciples, saying to them: Whom do men say that I am? 28 Who answered him, saying: John the Baptist; but some Elias, and others as one of the prophets.29 Then he saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Peter answering said to him: Thou art the Christ. 30 And he strictly charged them that they should not tell any man of him.
this verse above shows clearly that Jesus had not taught he was the Messiah. and believers supposed that he was John , or Elijas or one prophet.
Saint Peter as any Jews , supposed Jesus was the Messiah because of he was descendant of David. but the answer came from jesus:
And he strictly charged them that they should not tell any man of him.

III-   Jesus had to correct the jews .Tyhe Messiah is not from David descendance

Mark 12/35 :" And Jesus answering, said, teaching in the temple: How do the scribes say, that Christ is the son of David?"

IV-Jews were waitaing for three prophets

    John 1/25 :" 25 And they asked him, and said to him: Why then dost thou baptize, if thou be not Christ, nor Elias, nor the prophet?
    the verse of John demonstrates that Jews were expecting three prophetes:
    1-A voice of one crying in the desert = John
    2-Elias = Jesus
    3-The Messiah = Muhammed (SAWS)


    all the scriptures in the Bible say that The Messiah is from Ismael and he would come out from Arabia

this is truly my point of view .  .you are well placed to speak on behalf of Christianity.
if I 'm wrong correct me
   

Hello, my friend, and welcome to the forum.

We can go through the false presumptions you arrived at, but I think we can save some time if you answer one question first.

Are you aware that Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah or Christ?

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm

  (Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God).  He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be).  God creates what He wills.  If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.”  (Quran, 3:45-47)

  ...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)...  (Quran, 4:157)

So how can you be a Muslim and deny that Jesus is the Messiah? Didn't you ask your Imam about this?

Any time you have a question about the English translation of a word you can click on the verse and select the interlinear to understand the term:

Christos
Pronunciation
khrÄ"-sto's (Key)
Part of Speech
adjective
Root Word (Etymology)
From χρίω (G5548)
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 9:493,1322
KJV Translation Count â€" Total: 569x
The KJV translates Strongs G5547 in the following manner: Christ (569x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
1. Christ = "anointed"
  A. Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God
  B. anointed

Now try this word search of the bible for the term Christ:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=christ&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1


________________________

Now I would appreciate very much if you could answer a question for me on the related thread:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4787.0

We ask of our Muslim friends: Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?

redundant post

Mark 8:27-30New International Version (NIV)
(Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah)
27 Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”
28 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.”
29 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.”
30 Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.

Hi there and welcome!

To understand this verse, please consider this also:

Mark 8:11-13New International Version (NIV)
11 The Pharisees came and began to question Jesus. To test him, they asked him for a sign from heaven.
12 He sighed deeply and said, “Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to it.”
13 Then he left them, got back into the boat and crossed to the other side.


Additionally, consider that Jesus of the bible (and not jesus of the Koran!) often spoke in parables.

You need to consider why is the Messiah being so deliberately mysterious over His identity? Why does He confide in the disciples (via an obvious yet tacit admission) but not others generally? You might surprise yourself if you genuinely commit to pondering this. I hope so anyway!

Actually, perhaps it would help if I throw this in too, from the Old Testament:

Daniel 12:9-10:
He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.
Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

So if you put that all together, what do you understand?

25 Now some of them from Jerusalem said, “Is this not He whom they seek to kill? 
26 But look! He speaks boldly, and they say nothing to Him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is truly the Christ? 
27 However, we know where this Man is from; but when the Christ comes, no one knows where He is from.”
28 Then Jesus cried out, as He taught in the temple, saying, “You both know Me, and you know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know. 
29 But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent Me.”
30 Therefore they sought to take Him; but no one laid a hand on Him, because His hour had not yet come. 
31 And many of the people believed in Him, and said, “When the Christ comes, will He do more signs than these which this Man has done?”

Jesus worked many miracles and signs. Yet despite that, there was much confusion over who He was - both amongst the people generally and the religious authorities of the time. In verse 31 taken into context, some of the people were asking themselves "what more signs would we expect of the Christ than what this man has done?" They were beginning to understand who He is.  So I ask you, why did only some of them start to understand?

Quote from: PeteWaldo on November 21, 2015, 06:03:20 AM
Hello, my friend, and welcome to the forum.


Are you aware that Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah or Christ?



  (Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus[/b], son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God).  He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be).  God creates what He wills.  If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.”  (Quran, 3:45-47)

In Koran Messiah is simply a second name of Jesus. like is marked above.

and in your Gospel the name of Jesus is Messiah or Christ

Mathiew 1/16 :" 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."


i repeat Jesus is not the Messiah but he came to announce him.

Here's the whole genealogy from the King James translation:-

Matthew 1

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:
2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 
3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 
4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 
5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 
6 and Jesse begot David the king. David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife[a] of Uriah. 
7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa.
8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 
9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 
10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon,and Amon begot Josiah. 
11 Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 
13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 
14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 
15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 
16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.


The New International translation is easier to read regards that that last part:-

16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah

It's interesting to note that from Abraham all the way down to Joseph (husband of Mary) we have an exclusively male descendancy. Just from the pattern of it, it is odd that Mary is mentioned at all.  Note that it is a Jewish custom to list geneaolgies via the male parent only, as this one does right until the end.

Note that another Jewish (and Christian) custom is that when a man marries his wife, then they, in the eyes of God become one flesh.

Strange then that the end of the geneology diverges, somewhat conspicuously, to state Mary was the mother of Jesus. Why does it suddenly depart from the normal male line of descendancy? Why does it NOT clearly state that Joseph was the father of Jesus in keeping with the normal pattern of the genealogy? The reason is that the male human part of the marriage (Joseph) was not involved in the conception of Jesus. It was the Spirit Of God that created the physical incarnation of The Son of God (Who is eternally part of the Godhead) in Mary's womb.

That said, the descendancy works fine since through marriage, Joseph and Mary were one flesh.

Finally, it is clear from verse 16 that Jesus, Son of Mary, is the Christ/Messiah. That's what the text says.  How can you read it any other way?

Actually, I think this might just be a problem of interpreting English as I see that it is not your primary language.  So perhaps I can help. You see in English there are usually many ways to say the same thing. I could quite legitimately rephrase verse 16 as follows:-

"and Jacob was the father of Joseph, who is the husband of Mary. Mary was the mother of Jesus. Jesus was also known as the Messiah."

no ; the all translations i have in arabic , french and english


Jesus is called the Christ. it's just a second name of Jesus.


jesus has never recognised himself as the Messiah.


he was Elias the precursor of the Messiah

Quote from: ps49 on November 21, 2015, 05:00:27 PM
Mark 8:27-30New International Version (NIV)
(Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah)
27 Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”
28 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.”
29 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.”
30 Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.

you are answering your self:
0 Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him


this means he refuses the title

Quote from: ps49 on November 24, 2015, 09:10:48 AM"and Jacob was the father of Joseph, who is the husband of Mary. Mary was the mother of Jesus. Jesus was also known as the Messiah."

it does not exist in all translations.

you invent

If Muhammad said Jesus was the Messiah, would you believe him?  The Bible is NOT about Muhammad.  It is about Jesus only.

John's corrections to the synoptic


I- Texts regarding the kingdom of God

Mathiew ; Mark and Luke agree to say that Jesus and John the Baptist came to announce the good news of the kingdom of God.: Luke 4/43 :” 43 To whom he said: To other cities also I must preach the kingdom of God: for therefore am I sent. »

John:  said nothing of it.

The kingdom of God means the Messiah who have to establish the kingdom was not coming yet.

II- Texts regarding Jesus’s baptem.

Synoptic  agree that Jesus was baptized by John

John: said nothing of it . despite that he knows the fact.

John 1/32:” And John gave testimony, saying: I saw the Spirit coming down, as a dove from heaven, and he remained upon him.”.

Jesus have been baptized by John demonstrates that Jesus was not the Messiah. It’s for this John denies Jesus baptem.

III-Jesus and John were cousin , they are the same age and were living in the same country.
This is well knew in the synoptic especially Luke.

John correct synoptic so: “: “33 And I knew him not;” John 1/33.

John said this because in synoptic John the baptizer said : “after me came one who is greatest of me. With out appointing Jesus.

IV- texts regarding disciples of John

Synoptic relate that disciples of John were living  next door of Jesus and his disciples. This means Jesus was not the Messiah.

John: said nothing of disciples of John. 40” And Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter,was one of the two who had heard of John, and followed him” John 1/40.
And all the synoptic said that Simon and his brother Andrew were from Galilia. And they were fisherman invited by Jesus to follow him.

IV-The John’s  prophety is related in synoptic and John differently

In synoptic here is related : Mark 1/7:” 7 And he preached, saying: There cometh after me one mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and loose.”

In John: “29 The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him, and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who taketh away the sin of the world.30 This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is preferred before me: because he was before me. 31 And I knew him not”

you can notice that John explains what the synoptic’s verses open to misinterpretation.


this is why we believe in Muhammed (SAWS)

Quote from: bahous on November 23, 2015, 02:28:55 PM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on November 21, 2015, 06:03:20 AM
Hello, my friend, and welcome to the forum.


Are you aware that Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah or Christ?



  (Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus[/b], son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God).  He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be).  God creates what He wills.  If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.”  (Quran, 3:45-47)

In Koran Messiah is simply a second name of Jesus. like is marked above.

and in your Gospel the name of Jesus is Messiah or Christ

Please excuse my absence bahous, as I was unavailable to the Internet for the last 10 days, but I will be able to be more responsive going forward - as long as you are.

In answer to you, sorry bahous, but if the Quran were using "Messiah" as a name for Jesus (Hebrew Yeshua), the Quran would be wrong, because Messiah is a descriptive title - not a name.

Quote from: bahous on November 23, 2015, 02:28:55 PMMathiew 1/16 :" 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

i repeat Jesus is not the Messiah but he came to announce him.

Your admission that Jesus is the Christ means you admit that Jesus is the anointed one. There is only one "anointed one".
Now if you ask your local Imam I am sure he will tell you that Jesus is the Messiah, just as Ahmed Deedat does at the 4:50 mark on the video at this link.
https://youtu.be/YDslsWDzPIc

If you do not believe this important tenant of Islam that Jesus is the Messiah, as Muslims do, you are founding your own religion. We have a forum section devoted to people who follow gods of their own creation, where we can move your posts to that more appropriate forum section, as we find that when folks begin in confusion they increasingly become moving targets, making up things as they go along. Your post also makes me think you may have been sucked in as a victim of the preposterous 16th century Muslim forgery the "Gospel of Barnabas":
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_barnabas.htm

But while I answered your question myself, and now again through the Ahmed Deedat video (or simply ask your Imam), you failed to answer my question to you. When you joined the forum you agreed to engage in an exchange. Ignoring a question that is asked of you is a failure to to as you pledged to do. Now I ask again:

Quote from: PeteWaldo on November 21, 2015, 06:03:20 AM
Now I would appreciate very much if you could answer a question for me on the related thread:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4787.0

We ask of our Muslim friends: Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?

Quote from: PeteWaldo on November 30, 2015, 07:15:25 PMYour admission that Jesus is the Christ means you admit that Jesus is the anointed one. There is only one "anointed one".

i don't believe what you say.

Jesus was not at any time anointed.

his name is Messiah. that's not a title.

Jesus came only to annouce the Messiah ( Muhammed (SAWS).

bahous - Was Jesus not anointed when The Holy Spirit was seen to descend on Him as a dove?  At the time of His baptism by John Baptist?  Was He not anointed by The Most Holy God and then by sinners? The words "reconciliation" and "atonement" spring to mind. Think about the significance of this.

Pete is right. The words "Christ" and "Messiah" mean exactly the same thing, ie "Annointed One."  The word "Messiah" is from the Hebrew language whilst "Christ" is the equivalent word from the Greek.

The Jews understood "Messiah" to be a title - not a name. What scriptural evidence do you have to suggest "Messiah" was ever used as a name?

Quote from: bahous on December 01, 2015, 06:18:59 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on November 30, 2015, 07:15:25 PMYour admission that Jesus is the Christ means you admit that Jesus is the anointed one. There is only one "anointed one".

i don't believe what you say.

Jesus was not at any time anointed.

his name is Messiah. that's not a title.

Jesus came only to annouce the Messiah ( Muhammed (SAWS).

Again, your argument isn't with me, but with the Quran, Hadith, your Imam, Ahmed Deedat, Zakir Naik, Yousuf Estes and a near unanimity of the 1.5 billion other Muslims. About the only thing your argument agrees with, is the 16th century Muslim forgery of the so-called Gospel of Barnabas.
And by your suggestion that Jesus came to "announce" the Messiah I take it you got duped by the buffoonery of Ahmed Deedat and others that try to pretend that Muhammad was the prophesied "Comforter", even though the scriptures specifically detail exactly who that is.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/comforter_paraclete.htm

Let alone that Muhammad's imperialistic conquest and slaughter was no more comforting than is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's.

So why can we suppose you again failed to answer my question about whether you believe the Islamic State is ruled by God or Satan? This shouldn't be a difficult question. Would you please answer on the thread at this link:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4787.0

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 01, 2015, 07:23:00 AM

Quote from: bahous on December 01, 2015, 06:18:59 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on November 30, 2015, 07:15:25 PMYour admission that Jesus is the Christ means you admit that Jesus is the anointed one. There is only one "anointed one".

i don't believe what you say.

Jesus was not at any time anointed.

his name is Messiah. that's not a title.

Jesus came only to annouce the Messiah ( Muhammed (SAWS).

Again, your argument isn't with me, but with the Quran, Hadith, your Imam, Ahmed Deedat, Zakir Naik, Yousuf Estes and a near unanimity of the 1.5 billion other Muslims. About the only thing your argument agrees with, is the 16th century Muslim forgery of the so-called Gospel of Barnabas.
And by your suggestion that Jesus came to "announce" the Messiah I take it you got duped by the buffoonery of Ahmed Deedat and others that try to pretend that Muhammad was the prophesied "Comforter", even though the scriptures specifically detail exactly who that is.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/comforter_paraclete.htm

Let alone that Muhammad's imperialistic conquest and slaughter was no more comforting than is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's.

So why can we suppose you again failed to answer my question about whether you believe the Islamic State is ruled by God or Satan? This shouldn't be a difficult question. Would you please answer on the thread at this link:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4787.0

Jesus was not anointed . receiving the Holy Spirit is not specific for him.

John had received the holy spirit even when he was in his mother's womb

Luke 1/:"15 For he shall be great before the Lord; and shall drink no wine nor strong drink: and he shall be lled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."

Quote from: bahous on December 03, 2015, 02:45:55 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 01, 2015, 07:23:00 AM

Quote from: bahous on December 01, 2015, 06:18:59 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on November 30, 2015, 07:15:25 PMYour admission that Jesus is the Christ means you admit that Jesus is the anointed one. There is only one "anointed one".

i don't believe what you say.

Jesus was not at any time anointed.

his name is Messiah. that's not a title.

Jesus came only to annouce the Messiah ( Muhammed (SAWS).

Again, your argument isn't with me, but with the Quran, Hadith, your Imam, Ahmed Deedat, Zakir Naik, Yousuf Estes and a near unanimity of the 1.5 billion other Muslims. About the only thing your argument agrees with, is the 16th century Muslim forgery of the so-called Gospel of Barnabas.
And by your suggestion that Jesus came to "announce" the Messiah I take it you got duped by the buffoonery of Ahmed Deedat and others that try to pretend that Muhammad was the prophesied "Comforter", even though the scriptures specifically detail exactly who that is.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/comforter_paraclete.htm

Let alone that Muhammad's imperialistic conquest and slaughter was no more comforting than is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's.

So why can we suppose you again failed to answer my question about whether you believe the Islamic State is ruled by God or Satan? This shouldn't be a difficult question. Would you please answer on the thread at this link:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4787.0

Jesus was not anointed .....

Parroting Islam's liars will only bring you closer to the father of lies:

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Quote from: bahous on December 03, 2015, 02:45:55 AM..... receiving the Holy Spirit is not specific for him.

John had received the holy spirit even when he was in his mother's womb

Luke 1/:"15 For he shall be great before the Lord; and shall drink no wine nor strong drink: and he shall be lled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."

Putting your effort into misunderstanding, by turning to Deedat's playbook, won't change the simple truth of John 14:26. Don't feel bad. Virtually all Internet Muslims have been deceived by liars like Ahmed Deedat, Zakir Naik and Yusuf Estes. Just look at how undeniably they duped their poor adoring bible-ignorant minions with their Baca = Mecca lie, by censoring out the only part of Psalms 84 that pins the location of that pilgrimage:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1236.msg18498#msg18498

But if you would read the scriptures for yourself, rather than parroting the diversions of Greek sophist styled entertainers and lying antichrist deceivers like Deedat, you wouldn't have to suffer from such delusion. There is no ambiguity in regard to the identity of the Comforter as every literate person can conclude from the following verse:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/comforter_paraclete.htm

See how simple that is? You don't have to parrot the script you received from the father of lies any longer. The scriptures showed you the undeniable truth. The Comforter is the Holy Ghost (or Spirit). Is there anything about that is unclear to you?


And the reason you refuse to recognize that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, as any rational person can judge by their behavior, is because you know those reprobate men are not doing anything that Muhammad didn't do, or command his followers to do. Isn't that right?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_islamic_state.htm

You have no choice but to believe that when Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his men steal the property of others, behead those innocent young Christian boys and rape those Christian girls, that they are actually doing God's work, because Muhammad engaged in the very same behavior. Isn't that right?

Bukhari:V5B59N448 "They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sa'd to give the verdict. Sad said, 'I give my judgment that their men should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed.'"

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Bukhari B#62, #137 Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm#beheading_children

It is Satan's spirit of antichrist that prevents Muslims from recognizing that the most demonic behavior that men can engage in as demonstrated by those verses, is inspired by Satan himself, my friend. It is Satan that prevents you from being able to put yourself in the shoes of those poor little innocent Christian girls that have been raped and pressed into sexual slavery. It is just stunning that all the worst possible deeds that men are capable of doing, Muslims must consider to be good and of God, while all the best that God inspires people to do must be considered evil and a target for murder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfjYeQzCwzU
Muhammad's followers reality is an inversion of truth since evil things must be considered good, while good things must be considered to be evil.

But it doesn't have to be that way my friend. You don't have to follow those men and Satan's messenger to hell. You can repent and ask Jesus Christ to come into your heart and into your life today. You can be born again, and given a new heart.
You could die this very day. Forever is a very long time my friend:

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm) and the false prophet (http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/index.htm) are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEro81ygXQ

Muhammed was a pagan Arab from a family of desert dwelling occultists. 
Who knows who or what he was talking to in that lonely cave? Whatever it was, it seemed to scare the life out of him...
Of all the 360 idols in the Ka'ba, why was one, a mysterious black stone, the only one kept?

Quote from: ps49 on November 21, 2015, 05:00:27 PM
Mark 8:27-30New International Version (NIV)
(Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah)
27 Jesus and his disciples went on to the villages around Caesarea Philippi. On the way he asked them, “Who do people say I am?”
28 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, one of the prophets.”
29 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “You are the Messiah.”
30 Jesus warned them not to tell anyone about him.

no there is no evidence that Jesus was the Messiah.
why he warned his closest disciples not to tell anyone about him?

it is untintkable that a prophet sent by God hid his identity. he had never hidden he was prophet, he had never made objetions about his quality of prophet . why especially rejected he was the Messiah.

Quote from: ps49 on November 21, 2015, 05:00:27 PMYou need to consider why is the Messiah being so deliberately mysterious over His identity? Why does He confide in the disciples (via an obvious yet tacit admission) but not others generally? You might surprise yourself if you genuinely commit to pondering this. I hope so anyway!

there is nothing mysterious. Jesus was Elias who came to annouce the Messiah.

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 03, 2015, 07:05:14 AM

Again, your argument isn't with me, but with the Quran, Hadith, your Imam, Ahmed Deedat, Zakir Naik, Yousuf Estes and a near unanimity of the 1.5 billion other Muslims. About the only thing your argument agrees with, is the 16th century Muslim forgery of the so-called Gospel of Barnabas.

have not breathed a word of the Gospel of Barnabas .

I use your canonical Gospel.

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 03, 2015, 07:05:14 AMBukhari:V5B59N448 "They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sa'd to give the verdict. Sad said, 'I give my judgment that their men should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed.'"

Muhammed ( SAWS) was a head of state in addition he was prophet of God.

a state assumes the interest.

these Jews you speak of committed  the great treason. so they deserve exemplary punishment

Bahous I'm sorry, but I goofed up your post. Rather than push the "quote" button, I pushed the "modify" button to reply, so I erased the second part of your post in the process. I've only made that mistake on 2 or 3 other occasions in the last 7 years or so.
So sorry, however the rest of your post was just a repeat of what you have already posted, that had already been responded to.
Here was my reply:

Quote from: bahous on December 13, 2015, 06:30:25 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 03, 2015, 07:05:14 AM

Again, your argument isn't with me, but with the Quran, Hadith, your Imam, Ahmed Deedat, Zakir Naik, Yousuf Estes and a near unanimity of the 1.5 billion other Muslims. About the only thing your argument agrees with, is the 16th century Muslim forgery of the so-called Gospel of Barnabas.

have not breathed a word of the Gospel of Barnabas .

I use your canonical Gospel.

You're not fooling anybody but yourself my friend. If you had ever read the Gospel you would know that the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, who saves all from dying in our sins through faith His shed blood. There is nothing more important than that. The very thing that Satan, through his "messenger" forces THE false prophet Muhammad's followers to DISbelieve. Can you see that? The father of lies didn't teach you what to believe, but rather specifically what to DISbelieve.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.0

You're wasting time. You could die in a car wreck this very day as a blasphemy spewing antichrist.....

1 John 2:22 ..... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.....

Quran Surah 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

........ and stand in judgment before the very Son of God that Satan, through his messenger, compels you to deny:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Forever is a very long time, my friend:

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEro81ygXQ

Since you claim to have some familiarity with the Gospel, what are the two most important commandments that Christians are given?

Quote from: bahous on December 13, 2015, 06:38:04 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 03, 2015, 07:05:14 AMBukhari:V5B59N448 "They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sa'd to give the verdict. Sad said, 'I give my judgment that their men should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed.'"

Muhammed ( SAWS) was a head of state in addition he was prophet of God.

a state assumes the interest.

these Jews you speak of committed  the great treason. so they deserve exemplary punishment

What treason did they commit? Is simply refusing to accept Muhammed as a prophet really sufficient reason to behead innocent people?

Quote from: bahous on December 13, 2015, 06:38:04 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 03, 2015, 07:05:14 AMBukhari:V5B59N448 "They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sa'd to give the verdict. Sad said, 'I give my judgment that their men should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed.'"

Muhammed ( SAWS) was a head of state in addition he was prophet of God.

a state assumes the interest.

these Jews you speak of committed  the great treason. so they deserve exemplary punishment

Thank you for that admission, which should greatly benefit of all that will read this in the future. So you believe that the mass-murder-beheading of innocent, peaceful, faithful Jewish farm boys and their dads and grandpas, and the sexual assault of their little sisters and mom's and pressing them into sexual slavery, is an "exemplary punishment" for "treason" (which even your own books demonstrate the Banu Qurayza never committed against Muhammad).
http://answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Jews/BQurayza/treaty.html

Which of course is exactly what The Islamic State is doing to innocent Christian boys and girls, who refuse to renounce Jesus Christ and parrot the blasphemy of Islam's Shahada.
Muslims wish that Islam had something to do with Abraham (which is a physical impossibility on so many levels), but what did Abraham do after he vanquished the Sodomites, while rescuing his kidnapped nephew?

Genesis 14.20  And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.  21  And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22  And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,    23  That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

You see, Abraham worked for a living, rather than stealing the fruit of the labor of others.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2075.0

Indeed the Banu Qurayza Jews "committed the great treason" of rejecting Muhammad as a prophet of God - because they knew through their Torah that Muhammad was nothing more than a false prophet:

Ishaq:461 "After the siege exhausted and terrorized them, the Jews felt certain that the Apostle would not leave them until he had exterminated them. So they decided to talk to Ka'b Asad. He said, 'People of the Jews, you see what has befallen you. I shall propose three alternatives. Take whichever one you please.' He said, 'Swear allegiance to this man and accept him; for, by Allah, it has become clear to you that he is a prophet sent from Allah. It is he that you used to find mentioned in your scripture book. Then you will be secure in your lives, your property, your children, and your wives.'"

Above we see Mohammed revealed as a terrorist, while next we find that Yahweh's people well understood that following the false prophet Muhammad, would result in a death sentence in the hereafter.

Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.' Asad said, 'Since you reject this proposal of mine, then kill your children and your wives and go out to Muhammad and his Companions as men who brandish swords, leaving behind no impediments to worry you. If you die, you shall have left nothing behind; if you win you shall find other women and children.' The Jews replied, 'Why would we kill these poor ones? What would be the good of living after them?'"

So the Jews preferred to be beheaded, rather than recognize the false prophet Muhammad as a prophet of our great God Yahweh, and be separated from God forever for following the false prophet Muhammad. So Muhammad.....

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

So why were you so reluctant to offer an honest answer when I pressed you three times earlier for an answer to this simple question?

"Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?"

You are stuck having to believe they are ruled by Muhammad's "Allah", because The Islamic State isn't doing anything that Muhammad and his fellow mass-murdering, female prisoner abusing, reprobate thugs didn't do, or Muhammad command his followers to do through the Quran and the Hadith. Isn't that right?

You have been violating the only forum rule, and one you agreed to abide by when you joined, by ignoring this question so many times - the rule is that you must engage in an exchange. You need to respond to replies to your posts.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=35.msg5830#msg5830

Please reply to that question now.

Quote from: ps49 on December 13, 2015, 07:29:46 AM

Quote from: bahous on December 13, 2015, 06:38:04 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 03, 2015, 07:05:14 AMBukhari:V5B59N448 "They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sa'd to give the verdict. Sad said, 'I give my judgment that their men should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed.'"

Muhammed ( SAWS) was a head of state in addition he was prophet of God.

a state assumes the interest.

these Jews you speak of committed  the great treason. so they deserve exemplary punishment

What treason did they commit? Is simply refusing to accept Muhammed as a prophet really sufficient reason to behead innocent people?

To a true fundamental, orthodox, Islamic scholar like Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi it is obviously sufficient reason. The answer our poor deluded friend will give you is that the Banu Qurayza betrayed Muhammad, but that claim is made from pure fiction that was created in modern times, in order to help assuage the guilt of those few Muhammadans that have a smidgen of a sense of right and wrong remaining.
http://answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Jews/BQurayza/treaty.html

Though that article claims of Muhammad: "He strongly emphasized the importance of keeping treaties [Quran Surah 9:4 and Saheeh Bukhari - 33].", that is just more self-contradicted Muhammad double-speak, since he also said that if a Muslim makes an oath and something better comes along then he should expiate his oath.

"If you ever take an oath to do something and later on you find that something else is better, then you should expiate your oath and do what is better." - Sahih Bukhari 9:89:260
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

Quote

Quote from: ps49 on November 21, 2015, 05:00:27 PMYou need to consider why is the Messiah being so deliberately mysterious over His identity? Why does He confide in the disciples (via an obvious yet tacit admission) but not others generally? You might surprise yourself if you genuinely commit to pondering this. I hope so anyway!

there is nothing mysterious. Jesus was Elias who came to annouce the Messiah.

What scriptural evidence do you have for this?

Looks like he left. Unable to answer simple questions.

Quote from: ps49 on December 13, 2015, 07:29:46 AMWhat treason did they commit? Is simply refusing to accept Muhammed as a prophet really sufficient reason to behead innocent people?

they plotted against him. and had tacit agreements with the pagans of Mecca

you follow Paul whom he was impersonating but in reality  he was not  Apostle

IICorinthian 11/16-23 : 16 I say again, (let no man think me to be foolish, otherwise take me as one foolish, that I also may glory a little.) 17 That which I speak, I speak not according to God, but as it were in foolishness, in this matter of glorying.
18 Seeing that many glory according to the esh, I will glory also. 19 For you gladly su_er the foolish; whereas yourselves are wise. 20 For you su_er if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take from you, if a man be lifted up, if a man strike you on the face. 21 I speak according to dishonour, as if we had been weak in this part. Wherein if any man dare (I speak foolishly), I dare also. 22 They are Hebrews: so am I. They are Israelites:
so am I. They are the seed of Abraham:so am I. 23 They are the ministers of Christ (I speak as  one less wise): I am more; in many more labours, in prisons more frequently, in stripes above measure, in deaths often.24 Of the Jews _ve times did I re


this text above demonstrates that Paul acted in enemy of the saints Apostles.
he describes them as Hebrew ; Isralites , seed of Abraham and they are the ministers of Christ.

Paul was not an apostle he claimed .
he admits he was teaching another gospel as preached by the Apostles .

he was not telling the trut

Quote from: ps49 on December 13, 2015, 08:32:07 AMWhat scriptural evidence do you have for this?

I-John 7/31 : " 31 But of the people many believed in him, and said: When the Christ cometh, shall he do
more miracles, than these which this man doth?"

II-Corintians 11/3-:”3 But I fear lest, as the serpent seduced Eve by his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted, and fall from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Christ, whom we have not preached; or if you receive another Spirit, whom you have not received; or another gospel which you have not received; you might well bear with him. 5 For I suppose that I have done nothing less than the great apostles. 6 For although I be rude in speech




--------------------------
words : him , this man reffer to Jesus.
verb come is in future
i understand Jesus is not the Messiah but he came only to announce him.


the Apostles wer preaching another Gospel and preaching another Christ.

Quote from: bahous on December 18, 2015, 03:28:40 PM

Quote from: ps49 on December 13, 2015, 08:32:07 AMWhat scriptural evidence do you have for this?

I-John 7/31 : " 31 But of the people many believed in him, and said: When the Christ cometh, shall he do
more miracles, than these which this man doth?"

II-Corintians 11/3-:”3 But I fear lest, as the serpent seduced Eve by his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted, and fall from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Christ, whom we have not preached; or if you receive another Spirit, whom you have not received; or another gospel which you have not received; you might well bear with him. 5 For I suppose that I have done nothing less than the great apostles. 6 For although I be rude in speech




--------------------------
words : him , this man reffer to Jesus.
verb come is in future
i understand Jesus is not the Messiah but he came only to announce him.


the Apostles wer preaching another Gospel and preaching another Christ.

Is that it then bahous? You're basing all of this nonsense on just two verses which you have very badly misunderstood? Do you think there is at all any chance you have misunderstood those words?

QuotePaul was not an apostle he claimed .
he admits he was teaching another gospel as preached by the Apostles .

he was not telling the trut

Liars don't usually admit that they are lying! This is just foolishness.

Also may I ask, which sect of Islam is it that denies that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah? Are you not going against the Quran with this belief?

Quote from: bahous on December 18, 2015, 02:47:34 PM

Quote from: ps49 on December 13, 2015, 07:29:46 AMWhat treason did they commit? Is simply refusing to accept Muhammed as a prophet really sufficient reason to behead innocent people?

they plotted against him. and had tacit agreements with the pagans of Mecca

And where exactly do you read that the Jews plotted against Muhammed or that they had agreements with pagans of Mecca?

Quote from: bahous on December 18, 2015, 03:18:31 PM
you follow Paul whom he was impersonating but in reality  he was not  Apostle

IICorinthian 11/16-23 : 16 I say again, (let no man think me to be foolish, otherwise take me as one foolish, that I also may glory a little.) 17 That which I speak, I speak not according to God, but as it were in foolishness, in this matter of glorying.
18 Seeing that many glory according to the esh, I will glory also. 19 For you gladly su_er the foolish; whereas yourselves are wise. 20 For you su_er if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take from you, if a man be lifted up, if a man strike you on the face. 21 I speak according to dishonour, as if we had been weak in this part. Wherein if any man dare (I speak foolishly), I dare also. 22 They are Hebrews: so am I. They are Israelites:
so am I. They are the seed of Abraham:so am I. 23 They are the ministers of Christ (I speak as  one less wise): I am more; in many more labours, in prisons more frequently, in stripes above measure, in deaths often.24 Of the Jews _ve times did I re


this text above demonstrates that Paul acted in enemy of the saints Apostles.
he describes them as Hebrew ; Isralites , seed of Abraham and they are the ministers of Christ.

Paul was not an apostle he claimed .
he admits he was teaching another gospel as preached by the Apostles .

he was not telling the trut

Bahous, you copy and pasted HTML tags from another forum in the above quoted post. I had to go into your post and scrub them out. When you do that the incompatible tags goof up our database. If you copy and paste HTML tags from another forum again, your posts will be removed outright.

I asked you the following question 4 times, and you ignored it every time. I already informed you that is a violation of the forum rules that you agreed to abide by when you registered. If you ignore the question again, all of your posts will be stored in the spam section until you answer the question. Is it really that difficult to answer?

"Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?"

bahous - If you search the Gospel of John you will see that Jesus is identified as the Messiah several times. Here's a couple:

John 4:42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, [fn] the Savior of the world.”

John 6:69 “Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Does that help to put John 7:31 into context?

Also consider that according to the prophecy of Daniel, the Messiah had to be in the world by AD 32. So claiming that the Messiah is yet to come doesn't work for that reason.

Quote from: bahous on December 18, 2015, 03:18:31 PM
you follow Paul whom he was impersonating but in reality  he was not  Apostle

Beginning with a false premise, will only result in false presumptions and conclusions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuAdmZIoR8c
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1310.0

It is a sad but an undeniable fact that you follow Muhammad alone in the exact opposite of the Gospel and thus must DISbelieve the crucifixion of Christ - the basis of the whole subject of the Gospel - and thus must REJECT the blood of the Lamb of God that would save you from your sins, while you DENY and blaspheme the Son of God, as articles of your faith in THE false prophet Muhammad alone. Time is rapidly running out on you my friend.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/shirk_unforgivable_sin.htm

However if you had ever read the Gospel you would easily understand that we follow ALL of the prophets and witnesses, as revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, whose people have followed Him through two covenants for 3500 years.
While you follow the stand-alone, heavily abrogated, 23-year 7th century record of a single stand-alone self-proclaimed "messenger", that is the exact opposite.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
Just as Muhammad was the opposite of Jesus:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm#muhammads_cruelty
With the Quran being inspired by Waraqa bin Naufal, Jabr, Tubba and old Arabic, Egyptian and Hebrew fables, or "tales of the ancients" as the Quran refers to Muhammad's fables.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0
Along with the self-serving parts that Muhammad included because of his greed.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3775.0

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

So what Old Testament prophecy, was "written in the Psalms", that Jesus was making reference to?

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/psalms_22.htm

Confirmed as fulfilled by the New Testament witnesses.

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Mark 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. 24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

We follow all of the Gospel witnesses as revealed in scripture. Why don't you try reading the Gospel and actually thinking for yourself, rather than depending on the transparent buffoonery of Greek sophist styled entertaining, lying deceiving antichrists, like Ahmed Deedat?
Why not preface your study by investigating the First Epistle of John and decide if Ahmed Deedat was telling the truth, or told filthy lies, when he replied to a question as to whether Muhammad was antichrist:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/first_epistle_john.htm

Since bahous has terrible trouble understanding biblical verses, I wonder what he makes of this text:-

"O you People of the Book, overstep not bounds in your religion, and of God speak only the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, is only an apostle of God, and his Word which he conveyed unto Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from him. Believe therefore in God and his apostles, and say not Three. It will be better for you. God is only one God. Far be it from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son."

Do you recognise it bahous?

This is your last warning bahous. Do not copy and paste HTML tags from other forums. Our forum software does not use HTML tags like [COLOR="#FF8C00" ] that you brought in here from elsewhere. They goof up our database.
If you do it again I will simply discard your post.

I'm going to move your post to spam - at this link (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4831.0) - until such time as you answer the question I have asked you 5 times. According to the rule you agreed to when you joined the forum, you are required to engage in an exchange. Please start answering the questions we have asked you, that you ignored, beginning on page 1.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18449#msg18449

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 19, 2015, 03:25:51 PM
This is your last warning. Do not copy and paste HTML tags from other forums. Our forum software does not use HTML tags like [COLOR="#FF8C00"] that you brought in here from elsewhere. They goof up our database.
If you do it again I will simply discard your post.

I'm going to move your post to spam - at this link (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4831.0) - until such time as you answer the question I have asked you 5 times. According to the rule you agreed to when you joined the forum, you are required to engage in an exchange. Please start answering the questions we have asked you, that you ignored, beginning on page 1.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18449#msg18449

you have any chance to answer my questions. all what you have are threats

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 18, 2015, 05:33:59 PM


Bahous, you copy and pasted HTML tags from another forum in the above quoted post. I had to go into your post and scrub them out. When you do that the incompatible tags goof up our database. If you copy and paste HTML tags from another forum again, your posts will be removed outright.

no i am scholar. I am doing searsh in the Bible for 22 years

I asked you the following question 4 times, and you ignored it every time. I already informed you that is a violation of the forum rules that you agreed to abide by when you registered. If you ignore the question again, all of your posts will be stored in the spam section until you answer the question. Is it really that difficult to answer?

you fear me. you have to create subterfuge

"Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?"

Abu bakr does not represent any thing , its a criminal like those created him

read this Waldo , and Ps

James 2/19-24 :” 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Quote from: bahous on December 21, 2015, 05:22:18 AM

James qualifes Paul as a vain main

[/size][/color]


read this Waldo , and Ps

James 2/19-24 :” 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

What makes you think James is talking about Paul? Was Paul without works?

Quoteno i am scholar. I am doing searsh in the Bible for 22 years

Then it's not working out too well for you based on all of these misunderstandings you seem to show. These are your works.

I'm interested to know: Who do you think is the Messiah, if not Jesus of Nazareth?

Quote from: bahous on December 21, 2015, 05:22:18 AM
read this Waldo , and Ps

James 2/19-24 :” 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

"Read this" bahous:  John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Typical Muslim forum citizenship. Agrees to abide by the forum rule to engage in an exchange, when he registers, then repeatedly breaks his oath nearly from the beginning. In this case ignoring, even the first question that was repeatedly asked of him, in exchange (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18449#msg18449).
Typical:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2304.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2149.0
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4739.0

This is because Muslims do not consider themselves to be under obligation to keep a vow or oath, isn't that right bahous?

Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Samura:  The Prophet said, ".....If you ever take an oath to do something and later on you find that something else is better, then you should expiate your oath and do what is better."
Sahih Bukhari 9:89:260
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

Let alone that Muslims are licensed to lie, by the "messenger" of the father of lies.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/global_war_against_truth.htm#dissimulation

Quote from: ps49 on December 21, 2015, 05:33:08 AM

I'm interested to know: Who do you think is the Messiah, if not Jesus of Nazareth?

It's Muhammed (SAWS).
the two prophets of God Jesus and John had never anything to preach if it is not the commi,g of the Messiah (Muhammed saws)

Quote from: bahous on December 21, 2015, 12:06:25 PM

Quote from: ps49 on December 21, 2015, 05:33:08 AM

I'm interested to know: Who do you think is the Messiah, if not Jesus of Nazareth?

It's Muhammed (SAWS).
the two prophets of God Jesus and John had never anything to preach if it is not the commi,g of the Messiah (Muhammed saws)

I see and thanks for that. May I ask how you have come to this understanding?

I can't find anything in the Old Testament to suggest that Messiah would be born in Mecca or from amongst the gentiles. Messiah was prophesised to be born of the tribe of Judah, in Bethlehem from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David.

Nor can I find anything to suggest that Messiah would arrive during the 7th century AD as per Muhammed. According to Daniel the prophet, Messiah was to be in the world by AD 32.

Isaiah the prophet states that the Messiah would be born from a virgin. Was Muhammed's mother a virgin at his birth?

Nor can I find anything in the Quran to identify Muhammed as Messiah. What have you been reading?

Quote from: ps49 on December 21, 2015, 03:06:49 PM

Quote from: bahous on December 21, 2015, 12:06:25 PM

Quote from: ps49 on December 21, 2015, 05:33:08 AM

I'm interested to know: Who do you think is the Messiah, if not Jesus of Nazareth?

It's Muhammed (SAWS).
the two prophets of God Jesus and John had never anything to preach if it is not the commi,g of the Messiah (Muhammed saws)

I see and thanks for that. May I ask how you have come to this understanding?

read my posts since the begining and you'll notice that Jesus have no mesage only to annouce the Messiah

Quote from: ps49 on December 22, 2015, 05:44:14 AM
I can't find anything in the Old Testament to suggest that Messiah would be born in Mecca or from amongst the gentiles. Messiah was prophesised to be born of the tribe of Judah, in Bethlehem from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David.

Nor can I find anything to suggest that Messiah would arrive during the 7th century AD as per Muhammed. According to Daniel the prophet, Messiah was to be in the world by AD 32.

Isaiah the prophet states that the Messiah would be born from a virgin. Was Muhammed's mother a virgin at his birth?

Nor can I find anything in the Quran to identify Muhammed as Messiah. What have you been reading?

do not listen to those who have gone astray .

throughout the entire Bible announce that Messiah would come from  Arabia, Seir , Petra , the Arabian Peninsula , south to the distant land, of Kedar , and that Messiah is ignorant.
I give you this famous verse that announces the Messiah.

and I invite you to dissect it

Esais 42 :

Behold my servant, I will uphold him: my elect,
my soul delighteth in him: I have given my spirit
upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the
Gentiles.
............
10 Sing ye to the Lord a new song, his praise
is from the ends of the earth: you that go down
to the sea, and all that are therein: ye islands,
and ye inhabitants of them.
11 Let the desert and the cities thereof be exalted:
Cedar shall dwell in houses: ye inhabitants
of Petra, give praise, they shall cry from
the top of the mountains.[/size]
.................
19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, but
he to whom I have sent my messengers? Who is
blind, but he that is sold? or who is blind, but
the servant of the Lord?[/size]
---------------

you can not see because you are blinded by Paul the liar

see again that Paul was lying : Corintians 11/3-:”4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Christ, whom we have not preached; or if you receive another Spirit, whom you have not received; or another gospel which you have not received; you might well bear with him. 5 For I suppose that I have done nothing less than the great apostles.

-----------------

Kedar are Ismael's son . Petra is north of Arabia , the end of earth is in Yemen actually
Paul recognises that the Apostles were preaching another Christ and another Gospel.

Paul was heritic . don't let you listening to him

Quote from: ps49 on December 22, 2015, 05:44:14 AMNor can I find anything in the Quran to identify Muhammed as Messiah. What have you been reading?

Muhammed ( SAWS) is not the only one in the Qur'an that is not called Messiah.

David, Solomon and Saul are not yet .

the Messiah is a mission .
all the qualifiers and merits of the Messiah are fulfilled in the person of Muhammed ( SAWS) .

Allah, in my opinion, has avoided him  to state that he is Messiah  . because as we know thousands of liars came and expressed their selves as  messiah but in reality they were only liars.

Allah wanted the witness to Muhammad ( SAWS) is fully independent of the Quran

I have done great studies and I came to the idea that Muhammed ( SAWS) is indeed the Messiah.

Quote from: bahous on December 23, 2015, 02:33:33 PM

Quote from: ps49 on December 22, 2015, 05:44:14 AMNor can I find anything in the Quran to identify Muhammed as Messiah. What have you been reading?

Muhammed ( SAWS) is not the only one in the Qur'an that is not called Messiah.

David, Solomon and Saul are not yet .

the Messiah is a mission .
all the qualifiers and merits of the Messiah are fulfilled in the person of Muhammed ( SAWS).

Which "qualifiers and merits"?
The rape and sexual abuse of a 9 year old little girl?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=769.0
The mass-murder of those innocent, peaceful, faithful Jewish farm boys and their dads and grandpas?
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm#farm_boys
The rape and sexual slavery of their little sisters, moms and grandmothers?
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm#abuse
The theft of the property of others, with 1/5 of it going to Muhammad, just like a Mafia Don?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2075.0
The theft of Muhammad's monogamous stepson's only wife?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=929.0

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm#muhammads_cruelty
Jesus healed the lame so they could walk.
Muhammad brought lameness to the walking.
Jesus brought sight to the blind.
Muhammad brought blindness to the seeing.
Jesus was crucified.
Muhammad crucified.
Jesus brought the dead back to life.
Mohammed mass murdered the living.
Jesus is sinless.
Muhammad was one of the most sinful wretches of all time. No wonder he claimed he didn't know what God was going to do with him. But it's my guess he knew darned well what God would do with him as reward for his reprobate behavior.

Quote from: bahous on December 23, 2015, 02:33:33 PMAllah, in my opinion, has avoided him  to state that he is Messiah  . because as we know thousands of liars came and expressed their selves as  messiah but in reality they were only liars.

Allah wanted the witness to Muhammad ( SAWS) is fully independent of the Quran

I have done great studies and I came to the idea that Muhammed ( SAWS) is indeed the Messiah.

So then you're just some lone cowboy out there, with a conclusion so ridiculous that not even the false prophet Muhammad's followers made it, over the 1400 years of Islamic history. Well done!
But ps49 asked you WHAT you have been reading. Be specific about sources and quote from those sources. Your self-delusion that prompted your false conclusions has so far ranged from beyond absurd, to disjointedly incomprehensible. If you fail to provide sources that were requested (beyond the abysmal abuse of truth you posted so far) and since Muslims do not believe Muhammad was the Messiah, all you will accomplish is further confirm that you aren't even a Muslim but instead some random individual that follows a god of his own creation. Just another man broken by the father of lies.

Why is it that Muslims so often act as though they believe, that if they simply repeat hollow and empty claims enough times, that somehow they will magically come true?
But THE truth doesn't work that way:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Your choice bahous. The Son of God or the wrath of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

If you had ever read the Gospel you would have known what antichrists such as yourself are headed for. You could die this very day my friend. Tomorrow may be too late.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

Quote from: bahous on December 23, 2015, 02:18:26 PM

Quote from: ps49 on December 22, 2015, 05:44:14 AM
I can't find anything in the Old Testament to suggest that Messiah would be born in Mecca or from amongst the gentiles. Messiah was prophesised to be born of the tribe of Judah, in Bethlehem from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David.

Nor can I find anything to suggest that Messiah would arrive during the 7th century AD as per Muhammed. According to Daniel the prophet, Messiah was to be in the world by AD 32.

Isaiah the prophet states that the Messiah would be born from a virgin. Was Muhammed's mother a virgin at his birth?

Nor can I find anything in the Quran to identify Muhammed as Messiah. What have you been reading?

do not listen to those who have gone astray .

throughout the entire Bible announce that Messiah would come from  Arabia, Seir , Petra , the Arabian Peninsula , south to the distant land, of Kedar , and that Messiah is ignorant.
I give you this famous verse that announces the Messiah.

and I invite you to dissect it

Esais 42 :

Behold my servant, I will uphold him: my elect,
my soul delighteth in him: I have given my spirit
upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the
Gentiles.
............
10 Sing ye to the Lord a new song, his praise
is from the ends of the earth: you that go down
to the sea, and all that are therein: ye islands,
and ye inhabitants of them.
11 Let the desert and the cities thereof be exalted:
Cedar shall dwell in houses: ye inhabitants
of Petra, give praise, they shall cry from
the top of the mountains.[/size]
.................
19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, but
he to whom I have sent my messengers? Who is
blind, but he that is sold? or who is blind, but
the servant of the Lord?[/size]
---------------

you can not see because you are blinded by Paul the liar

see again that Paul was lying : Corintians 11/3-:”4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Christ, whom we have not preached; or if you receive another Spirit, whom you have not received; or another gospel which you have not received; you might well bear with him. 5 For I suppose that I have done nothing less than the great apostles.

-----------------

Kedar are Ismael's son . Petra is north of Arabia , the end of earth is in Yemen actually
Paul recognises that the Apostles were preaching another Christ and another Gospel.

Paul was heritic . don't let you listening to him

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 23, 2015, 03:37:23 PM

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Your choice bahous. The Son of God or the wrath of God.

John the fourth book is a fake.

he had in mind to correct the synoptic

"And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto God)."  Quran 3:45

You can't be a Muslim and deny that Jesus was and is the Messiah.

QuoteMuhammed ( SAWS) is not the only one in the Qur'an that is not called Messiah.

David, Solomon and Saul are not yet .

the Messiah is a mission .

Several posts back you tried to convince us that the word messiah is a name and not a title as is commonly understood. Now you say something completely different; that messiah is a mission and that there are many messiahs. The Old Testament prophesised only one Messiah. The Quran also speaks of Messiah in the singular. You are like a man trying each from a bunch of keys and hoping that one will fit the lock!

QuoteAllah wanted the witness to Muhammad ( SAWS) is fully independent of the Quran

I have done great studies and I came to the idea that Muhammed ( SAWS) is indeed the Messiah.

You can't be a follower of Muhammed and deny the absolute authority of the Quran, which states that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

QuoteAllah, in my opinion, has avoided him  to state that he is Messiah  . because as we know thousands of liars came and expressed their selves as  messiah but in reality they were only liars.

I am absolutely convinced that you have invented the whole idea; that Muhammed is the Messiah or a messiah. You have nothing solid or convincing to say or quote on the matter. I asked you about what have you been reading, hoping you would provide sources. However it seems you have not read anything except the whims of your own imagination.

Quoteall the qualifiers and merits of the Messiah are fulfilled in the person of Muhammed

Hang on - now you speak of the Messiah, ie as in the singular. I'm not sure if you believe there is only one Messiah or several now. So which is it bahous? One or many messiahs??

Nevertheless, the qualifiers and merits of the Messiah are in no ways met in the person of Muhammed. I repeat from my earlier post:-

QuoteI can't find anything in the Old Testament to suggest that Messiah would be born in Mecca or from amongst the gentiles. Messiah was prophesised to be born of the tribe of Judah, in Bethlehem from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David.

Nor can I find anything to suggest that Messiah would arrive during the 7th century AD as per Muhammed. According to Daniel the prophet, Messiah was to be in the world by AD 32.

Isaiah the prophet states that the Messiah would be born from a virgin. Was Muhammed's mother a virgin at his birth?

There are dozens of prophetic Old Testament qualifiers for Messiah. I have just picked those three for now, for the simplicity of it. You avoided them once; will you avoid them again? Muhammed was born in the wrong place, at the wrong time, from the wrong people and in the wrong manner of conception!

Quote from: bahous on December 24, 2015, 03:51:41 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 23, 2015, 03:37:23 PM

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Your choice bahous. The Son of God or the wrath of God.

John the fourth book is a fake.

he had in mind to correct the synoptic

First Paul is a fake, and now John is a fake. But it doesn't matter where we turn to in the inspired scriptures of the one true God, bahous. Can't you see that because you follow the stand-alone antichrist Muhammad alone, through his heavily abrogated stand-alone 23-year 7th century antichrist record, you must necessarily reject all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 record of Yahweh to mankind? Indeed you don't follow Muhammad as much as you do lying deceiving antichrist like Ahmed Deedat, who even lied about Muhammad being antichrist. Please watch the video on this web page and you can see the provable lies he engaged in to dupe unsuspecting folks like you. This is the very same KJV version Deedat pretended to quote from:

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/first_epistle_john.htm

Can you see how Deedat played his adoring bible-ignorant minions for fools?
The reason you must DISbelieve the crucifixion, and thus REJECT the shed blood that would save you, while DENYING and even blaspheming THE Son of God, is because you follow the father of lies through his "messenger" Muhammad. Islam is an exact INVERSION of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, just as Muhammad was an exact INVERSION of the sinless Messiah - of the spotless Lamb of God.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Let's start with just the scriptures that contain the article "the" with "Son of God":
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

John 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Romans 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

*Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

You reject the one true God, because you choose to follow the antichrist 7th century false prophet Muhammad alone. That makes you an antichrist as well:

1 John 2:22 ..... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.....

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

See? You believe Muhammad's pure blasphemy against the Son of God. And all because you choose to follow a stand-alone murdering, raping, enslaving, imperialistic conquering, antichrist, terrorist, thief.

By Muhammad's 7th century, the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, copied tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. It would obviously have been impossible to go back and retrieve all of those tens of thousands of copies of the Gospel, and then uniformly edit them in all those languages, so that somehow the whole subject became the exact opposite of what it had been! Only a madman could believe something so ridiculous, wouldn't you agree?

Yet in that same 7th century Muhammad claimed his "Allah" revealed to him:

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Besides the Gospel accounts pasted into the forum thread at this link.....
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.msg6083#msg6083
.....you can see from even the few verses in the prior post, just a small taste of what is "revealed therein".

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

So was Muhammad's Allah just so crazily confused, that he made what you can only consider to be, such a conspicuously foolish blunder?
How do you explain Muhammad's "Allah's" apparent dysfunction my friend?

Quote from: ps49 on December 24, 2015, 06:58:13 AM
"And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary[/b], illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto God)."  Quran 3:45 .You can't be a Muslim and deny that Jesus was and is the Messiah.

yes I agree , read again what you have written and you can acknowledge that Messiah is a second name of Jesus.

Quote from: ps49 on December 24, 2015, 06:58:13 AMSeveral posts back you tried to convince us that the word messiah is a name and not a title as is commonly understood. Now you say something completely different; that messiah is a mission and that there are many messiahs. The Old Testament prophesised only one Messiah. The Quran also speaks of Messiah in the singular. You are like a man trying each from a bunch of keys and hoping that one will fit the lock!

you are wrong Messiah in the old testament means the king choosen by Yahwé. and David , Salomon an Saul all were messiah of Israelite peiople.

but the Messiah with article The and Capital letter is one preached by all the scriptures from Moses to Jesus. here are the verses;

John 7/31: " 31 But of the people many believed in him, and said: When the Christ cometh, shall he do more miracles, than these which this man doth? "

you can see by yourself that the verb come is conjugate in future , this man is reffering to Jesus. and a good believers who were living at Jesus's time are well placed to teach us of The messiah

II- Mark 8/27 :" 27 And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi. And in the way, he asked his disciples, saying to them: Whom do men say that I am?
28 Who answered him, saying: John the Baptist; but some Elias, and others as one of the prophets. 29 Then he saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Peter answering said to him:
Thou art the Christ. 30 And he strictly charged them that they

you can notice by yourself no believer at his time was supposing Jesus as the Messieh. this mean clearly that Jesus had never taugt he was the Messiah.

and when Peter as anyone jew that the Messiah is of desendant of david Jesus they charged them to tell anyone.


111- Peter's speech

Act 3/17-25 :" 19 Be penitent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. 1412 The Acts of the Apostles 20 That when the times of refreshment shall
come from the presence of the Lord, and he shall send him who hath been preached unto you,

Jesus Christ, 21 Whom heaven indeed must receive, until the times of the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets, from the beginning of the world.
22 For Moses said: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me: him you shall hear according to all things whatsoever he shall speak to you.
23 And it shall be, that every soul which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 And all the prophets, from Samuel and afterwards, who have spoken, have told of these

after after the disappearance of Jesus, Peter wants the Jews repent of their sin that of not believing in Jesus and God could bring rest times and it will send one that was preached to them in advance.

Jesus must remain in heaven until the renewal of all things. what Moses had predicted in the law : send the prophet of their brother

Quote from: ps49 on December 24, 2015, 06:58:13 AMYou can't be a follower of Muhammed and deny the absolute authority of the Quran, which states that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

the right comprehension of Koran is that Jesus has a second name messiah. this is only a name this is not a title like you Christains understand.

Your further efforts are pointless. We fully understand that you are trying to communicate that you are neither Christian, nor Muslim, but follow a god of your own creation.

I moved your non-responsive posts into spam storage, where they will remain until you begin to observe forum rules and engage in an exchange
Everything will go to spam until you do.
We continue to answer your questions. Running and hiding from our questions is not acceptable forum citizenship. Please respond to the question I asked you - 5 times already - as if your forum membership depended upon it:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18577#msg18577

Then please respond to the post before the one you posted now. How could Muhammad's "Allah" have been so ignorant or foolish as to have made, what you can only believe was a horrible recommendation?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18603#msg18603

you can not do nothing other  than what you are just doing

you can not face the truth


I do not allow anyone dictating me his condirtions

Quote from: bahous on December 28, 2015, 05:42:43 AM

you can not do nothing other  than what you are just doing

you can not face the truth

As has become obvious to all, there is no truth in your posts, but only very personal one-off false presumption that even your fellow Muslims disagree with.
The truth is you can't answer those simple questions, because they make obvious that your "messenger" was a confused, self-serving, morally reprobate fraud, that simply made up stuff as he went along. Then later after his psychotic break had to "annul" and "consign to oblivion" his earlier and contradictory Mecca drivel.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

You can't speak against the Islamic State, because there is no filthy reprobate behavior they engage in, that Muhammad didn't engage in and/or command his followers to engage in.

Quote from: bahous on December 28, 2015, 05:42:43 AMI do not allow anyone dictating me his condirtions

That's right. Not even when you are under contractual obligation to engage in an exchange.
What you mean is that you go around agreeing to forum rules in order to join, fully intending to ignore the oath you took, because Muhammad's "Allah" allows you to break your vow when something better comes along.

For onlookers, just imagine what kind of a world it would be, if everyone were Muslim and nobody felt any obligation to honor the oaths or vows that they took. This is why Middle East Muslim nations haven't developed beyond 7th century standards, since nobody can trust his neighbor to honor a contract.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

Likely even most atheists have a better sense of moral obligation than that.

The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

For starters, there's plenty of archaeological evidence to prove that "Allah" existed prior to Muhammed's so called revelations. "Allah" is actually derived from "al-ilah"; a pre-Islamic and quite pagan moon god. "Allah" was then a god peculiar to the region of Arabia and was generally considered the highest amongst the Arabic pantheon of gods. All Muhammed really did was to eliminate the pantheon and keep his favourite "Allah" to form what I might call a pagan version of monotheism. Even the esteemed crescent moon used to represent the polytheistic moon god "Allah" has been retained to this day. A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia. It is amusing to note that Muhammed thought of the Christian Trinity as Allah, Jesus and His mother Mary - how wrong can a so called prophet be?

Here's a good read:-
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Secondly, in the Bible, Genesis 1 is all about denouncing the prevalent pagan sun and moon and star worship of that time. Instead of a pantheon of gods, there is a single Creator God and the celestial objects are relegated to being nothing more than objects spoken into existence by God. It is, amongst other things, a polemic against polytheism, paganism and just the kind of moon-god worship which Islam represents to this day. Genesis 1 would have been extraordinarily divergent from the common polytheism of the time - and quite confrontational about it too.

The Arabian pagan's ritual of Ramadan was hijacked directly from Harannian and Sabian moon god worship.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/origin_of_ramadan.htm

Which of course is why it is held during the month that begins and ends with the sighting of the crescent moon in the sky.

More on the etymology of the Arabian pagan's moon god's name "Allah":
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_name_allah.htm#etymology_name_allah

Quote from: ps49 on December 28, 2015, 04:34:32 PMA corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia.

Follow the dots with me here:
http://www.petewaldo.com/simon_magnus_gnostics_ebionites_islam.htm#simon_magus

Quote from: ps49 on December 28, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

For starters, there's plenty of archaeological evidence to prove that "Allah" existed prior to Muhammed's so called revelations. "Allah" is actually derived from "al-ilah"; a pre-Islamic and quite pagan moon god. "Allah" was then a god peculiar to the region of Arabia and was generally considered the highest amongst the Arabic pantheon of gods. All Muhammed really did was to eliminate the pantheon and keep his favourite "Allah" to form what I might call a pagan version of monotheism. Even the esteemed crescent moon used to represent the polytheistic moon god "Allah" has been retained to this day. A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia. It is amusing to note that Muhammed thought of the Christian Trinity as Allah, Jesus and His mother Mary - how wrong can a so called prophet be?

Here's a good read:-
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Secondly, in the Bible, Genesis 1 is all about denouncing the prevalent pagan sun and moon and star worship of that time. Instead of a pantheon of gods, there is a single Creator God and the celestial objects are relegated to being nothing more than objects spoken into existence by God. It is, amongst other things, a polemic against polytheism, paganism and just the kind of moon-god worship which Islam represents to this day. Genesis 1 would have been extraordinarily divergent from the common polytheism of the time - and quite confrontational about it too.

do not forget that the Ishmaelites are descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham.

Quote from: ps49 on December 28, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

do not listen to the lies of those who bargain their books for pennies .

what write shows that you are disciples of Paul and not Jesus .

this Paul has traded truth for pennies . And he preached a gospel and a  Christ that were not preached by the holy Apostles of Jesus

Here is the proof:


Corintians 11/3-:”3 But I fear lest, as the serpent seduced Eve by his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted, and fall from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that

cometh preacheth another Christ, whom we have not preached; or if you receive another Spirit, whom you have not received; or another gospel which you have not

received; you might well bear with him.5 For I suppose that I have done nothing less than the great apostles."


it's clear that your false apostle were denouncing the great Apotles for preaching another christ and another Gospel

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 28, 2015, 06:25:29 AM
For onlookers, just imagine what kind of a world it would be, if everyone were Muslim and nobody felt any obligation to honor the oaths or vows that they took. This is why Middle East Muslim nations haven't developed beyond 7th century standards, since nobody can trust his neighbor to honor a contract.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

we were the first for more than twelve centuries.

Arab and Muslim civilization has taught you science, human rights , arts , cooking, and everything

when you are killing each other and live in total darkness . universities of Andalusia and that of Damascus Baghdad, Cordoba taught you tolerance , love of the human being respect science of any kind

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 07:22:06 AM

Quote from: ps49 on December 28, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

For starters, there's plenty of archaeological evidence to prove that "Allah" existed prior to Muhammed's so called revelations. "Allah" is actually derived from "al-ilah"; a pre-Islamic and quite pagan moon god. "Allah" was then a god peculiar to the region of Arabia and was generally considered the highest amongst the Arabic pantheon of gods. All Muhammed really did was to eliminate the pantheon and keep his favourite "Allah" to form what I might call a pagan version of monotheism. Even the esteemed crescent moon used to represent the polytheistic moon god "Allah" has been retained to this day. A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia. It is amusing to note that Muhammed thought of the Christian Trinity as Allah, Jesus and His mother Mary - how wrong can a so called prophet be?

Here's a good read:-
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Secondly, in the Bible, Genesis 1 is all about denouncing the prevalent pagan sun and moon and star worship of that time. Instead of a pantheon of gods, there is a single Creator God and the celestial objects are relegated to being nothing more than objects spoken into existence by God. It is, amongst other things, a polemic against polytheism, paganism and just the kind of moon-god worship which Islam represents to this day. Genesis 1 would have been extraordinarily divergent from the common polytheism of the time - and quite confrontational about it too.

do not forget that the Ishmaelites are descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham.

Indeed they are! And therefore specifically cut out of God's covenants with the seed of Isaac.

Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac.11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. 12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

The seed of Ishmael are the "children of the flesh". So it is no surprise that you prostrate yourselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol 5 times a day, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen do" as the scriptures refer to Salat, in the names of the Arabian pagan's deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad.
http://www.petewaldo.com/children_flesh.htm

You are even obligated to waste your money traveling to that black stone idol to march around it 7 times, just as the Arabian pagan's did before Muhammad was ever born. Indeed the pagans and Muslims marched around it shoulder to shoulder, up until the year prior to Muhammad's last Hajj, when he kicked the poor pagan's out of their own ritual.

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689: Narrated Abu Huraira: In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'

Just imagine a bunch of naked pagan's and Muslims marching around the Kaaba!
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#tawaf

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 07:39:29 AM

Quote from: ps49 on December 28, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

do not listen to the lies of those who bargain their books for pennies .

what write shows that you are disciples of Paul and not Jesus .

Even after being corrected, you repeat what are now bold faced lies, because you follow the father of lies himself through his "messenger".
And again, we follow all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of the one true God, including all of the disciples and apostles of the Gospel. You again single out Paul, even though you already admitted you also have to reject John, and of course you must reject all of the disciples, prophets and witnesses of the one true God, to follow the stand-alone false prophet Muhammad alone, through his self-contradicted and thus heavily abrogated, stand-alone 23-year 7th century record:

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Mark 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. 24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

In short, Muhammad's antichrists must reject the one true God, to follow Satan, through his stand-alone "messenger" Muhammad alone.

Yet your "messenger" proclaims "Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein.", even after the Gospel had been copied tens of thousands of times and had been read all over the known world for centuries before Muhammad.
So how do you explain that bahous?
We both know why you have to keep running and hiding from the truth, don't we.

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 07:53:43 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 28, 2015, 06:25:29 AM
For onlookers, just imagine what kind of a world it would be, if everyone were Muslim and nobody felt any obligation to honor the oaths or vows that they took. This is why Middle East Muslim nations haven't developed beyond 7th century standards, since nobody can trust his neighbor to honor a contract.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

we were the first for more than twelve centuries.

Muhammadans were certainly the first at spreading murder, mayhem and misery as practiced and commanded by Muhammad, just as orthodox Muhammadan murderers continue to engage in today.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/muslim_persecution_of_christians.htm

But what does your post have to do with what you quoted, and your breaking the affirmation of the vow that you took when you joined the forum?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=35.msg5830#msg5830

Instead you dither on with foolish lies you have been trained to parrot. It was only after Muslims were civilized by societies they traveled to, outside of the illiterate pagan backwaters of Arabia, that they were able to achieve more than marching around, prostrating themselves toward, and venerating the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca.

The first Islamic Jihad brought murder, mayhem, slavery and misery to all of the civilized societies it attacked, until blessedly being beaten back in the Battle of Tours France, which marked the death-knell and beginning of the end of the First Islamic Jihad.

Six centuries before Mecca was ever settled, and eight centuries before Muhammad was ever born, marvels of engineering such as the Antikythera Mechanism had been invented a half a millennium before Muhammad's reprobates went on their murderous rampage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 07:53:43 AMArab and Muslim civilization has taught you science, human rights , arts , cooking, and everything

when you are killing each other and live in total darkness . universities of Andalusia and that of Damascus Baghdad, Cordoba taught you tolerance , love of the human being respect science of any kind

While we offer substantive responses to your posts, why do you suppose it is that you are left dumbstruck, and stuck dithering on in mindless repetition, instead of answering our simple questions?
Like whether you believe the Islamic State is driven by God or Satan.
And why Muhammad told the people of the Gospel to go by what is revealed therein, while you march around here demonizing all of the disciples as revealed therein.

Let's try another question that you may have an easier time with.
Why do you suppose it is that the penalty for "apostasy" or leaving Muhammad's death cult, is punishable by death, just like when someone leaves the Mafia?

Not only in the backwards 7th Arabian desert, but that barbarity and enslavement of Muslims by State statute in Islamic countries continues even during this 21st century, while most of the rest of the (non-communist) world live in organized civilized societies that protect the freedom, liberty and human rights such the right to self-determination, of all citizens?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/death_penalty_apostasy.htm

Indeed outside of those being slaughtered by Muslims all around the world, nobody has more reason to be more "Islamophobic" that Muhammad's followers themselves!
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islamophobia_or_christian_love.htm

Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

Jesus states he is not the Messiah

John 6"15 Jesus therefore, when he knew that they would come to take him by force, and make him king, fed again into the mountain himself alone."

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 09:06:35 AM
Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

it is the Christians who are imperialists . and traveling thousands of kilometers to kill Muslims in Iraq , Syria, Afghanistan , Bosnia and support dictators and use them

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:23:25 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 09:06:35 AM
Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

it is the Christians who are imperialists . and traveling thousands of kilometers to kill Muslims in Iraq , Syria, Afghanistan , Bosnia and support dictators and use them

Your cognitive function and capacity for critical thought is deeply compromised.
Please look at what you quoted and how preposterously unrelated your answer is.

I live in freedom and liberty with my God-given right to self-determination guaranteed not to be infringed, with freedom to worship as I choose in whatever religion I choose, as do others in western democracies (or representative Republics like in the U.S.).

Why don't you give us an idea as to what would happen to you if you, if you were to reject the death cult of Islam, to begin a life in the love of God, through a relationship with Christ Jesus?

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 10:39:16 AM

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:23:25 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 09:06:35 AM
Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

it is the Christians who are imperialists . and traveling thousands of kilometers to kill Muslims in Iraq , Syria, Afghanistan , Bosnia and support dictators and use them

Your cognitive function and capacity for critical thought is deeply compromised.
Please look at what you quoted and how preposterously unrelated your answer is.

I live in freedom and liberty with my God-given right to self-determination guaranteed not to be infringed, with freedom to worship as I choose in whatever religion I choose, as do others in western democracies (or representative Republics like in the U.S.).

Why don't you give us an idea as to what would happen to you if you, if you were to reject the death cult of Islam, to begin a life in Christ Jesus?

it is not surprise if you are from USA.

what you say living in christ jesus is from Paul and not from Jesus.

Paul was not an apotle. he was preachig another spirit and another Gospel

you are slil pagans. as your ancestors

I resume my faith like below:

1- Jesus was not crucified dear Waldo.

2-Jesus was not the Messiah he was Elias like i have already posted in my first post

3-Jésus was innocent of stating he was a God's son. this stating is blasphemous



I invite you to recognise the truth God and his Book

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:19:16 AM
Jesus states he is not the Messiah

John 6"15 Jesus therefore, when he knew that they would come to take him by force, and make him king, fed again into the mountain himself alone."

How many times bahous? We completely get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, which indicates you are not a Muslim, but instead follow a god of your own creation.

We get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, even though Muslims believe He is the Messiah, believe He was born of a virgin, believe He was born in Bethlehem, believe He is sinless, and believe he was lifted physically to heaven and has no earthly grave.

We get that you believe that a mass-murdering, little girl and prisoner raping, cutthroat thief, whose corpse still lies rotting in its shallow grave, is the Messiah.

You don't need to waste any more of our time repeating your unique blasphemy. Nor do you need to continue to jerk proof texted verses out of context, to further demonstrate you are as absolutely clueless and incapacitated, as Muhammad's illiterate 7th century followers. We get it.

Why don't you put on your big boy pants now, and go back and respond to the questions I asked, that you chose to run and hide from?

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:54:19 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 10:39:16 AM

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:23:25 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 09:06:35 AM
Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

it is the Christians who are imperialists . and traveling thousands of kilometers to kill Muslims in Iraq , Syria, Afghanistan , Bosnia and support dictators and use them

Your cognitive function and capacity for critical thought is deeply compromised.
Please look at what you quoted and how preposterously unrelated your answer is.

I live in freedom and liberty with my God-given right to self-determination guaranteed not to be infringed, with freedom to worship as I choose in whatever religion I choose, as do others in western democracies (or representative Republics like in the U.S.).

Why don't you give us an idea as to what would happen to you if you, if you were to reject the death cult of Islam, to begin a life in Christ Jesus?

it is not surprise if you are from USA.

Indeed I am, where my God-given rights to freedom, liberty and self-determination are guaranteed along with my God-given right to speak freely.

The very antithesis of the slavery, murder, mayhem, misery and oppression of despotic totalitarian rule in Islamic slave states and sharia law. Satan's slavery. Satan's law. Where nation States murder or imprison their own citizens for leaving Islam, and even murder or imprison them for speaking freely about Muhammad and Islam as revealed through Islam's own books.

"Algeria â€" While Algeria has no direct laws against apostasy, its laws indirectly cover it. Article 144(2) of Algerian code specifies a prison term to anyone who criticizes or insults the creed or prophets of Islam through writing, drawing, declaration, or any other means; further, Algerian law makes conversion from Islam and proselytizing by non-Muslims an offense punishable with fine and prison term.[10]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Where_punished

Wouldn't a person that loved freedom, liberty, the right to self-determination and truth have to absolutely despise living in such a conspicuously Satan-ruled slave-state like that?
It should be obvious to even the most weak minded among us, that truth-censoring through such reprobate rule is the result of Satan's people being jealous of the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination that Muhammadans are deprived of through their slavery and submission to their Muslim masters. Truth is, after all, what Muhammad's followers fear most.

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:54:19 AMwhat you say living in christ jesus is from Paul and not from Jesus.

Poor lost soul doubling-down on your lie, even after I showed you repeatedly that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all accounted of the crucifixion of Christ and his death and resurrection from the dead. For pity's sake, faith in the shed blood of the Lamb of God that was sacrificed to save us from dying in our sins, is the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel!

If you had remained ignorant, you might have gotten a pass. But now you will stand in judgment before the very Son of God you deny and blaspheme, in full knowledge of the truth and then rejecting it. Your choice, your fate. Here's how the Gospel of Matthew closes:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Remember: John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:54:19 AMPaul was not an apotle. he was preachig another spirit and another Gospel

Lies upon lies. Paul preached the same Gospel as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. All of whom testified that Jesus was crucified, died and was raised from the dead.
God gave you the free will to accept or reject His Son. Your choice your fate.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:54:19 AMyou are slil pagans. as your ancestors

This from a guy that prostrates himself toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca 5 times a day, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" (as the scriptures refer to Salat), in the names of the Arabian pagan's moon god "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad. Venerating the very same pagan idol that the Quraish pagan's venerated, before Muhammad was ever born. Even obligated to waste your money traveling to that black stone idol, to march around it 7 times, just as the Arabian pagan's did. Muhammad plunging his followers even deeper into it than the pagans, by duping them into kissing or at least pointing to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol, on each trip around!
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

Muhammadans even run back and forth between Al-Safa and Al-Marwah, just as the Arabian pagan jinn-devil worshipers did, before Muhammad was ever born.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:54:19 AMI resume my faith like below:

1- Jesus was not crucified dear Waldo.

Can't even you see how Satan inspired the words you just wrote?
You just admitted that your faith is in DISBELIEF!
It is Satan that inspires your DISbelief, just the way Satan inspires the same DISbelief in atheists and other antichrists such as yourself.

Muhammad's denial of the crucifixion of the Messiah was originated by a first century sorcerer named Simon Magus. He was followed by a follower named Basilides. Basilides influenced the 2nd century occult cult of the Ebionites. Any surprise then that Khadijah's cousin Waraqa was an occult Ebionite priest, from who Muhammad received so much of his "revelations"?
http://www.petewaldo.com/simon_magnus_gnostics_ebionites_islam.htm

It would be a hilarious comedy, if it weren't the greatest tragedy, in the history of mankind.

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:54:19 AM2-Jesus was not the Messiah he was Elias like i have already posted in my first post

3-Jésus was innocent of stating he was a God's son. this stating is blasphemous

My sorely deluded friend, Islam IS blasphemy, against the one true God of the scriptures of Jews and Christians. THE false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast" is just as prophesied:

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/blasphemy_laws.htm#islamic_blasphemy_in_prophecy

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 10:54:19 AMI invite you to recognise the truth God and his Book

But you aren't even a Muslim, so you have no book, since Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah.

And you've already been shown the impossibility of the filthy preposterous lie you believe.
Was Muhammad born in Bethlehem?
Was Muhammad born of a virgin?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18593#msg18593
Did Muhammad "dwelleth with" the apostles?
Was Muhammad "in" the apostles?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/comforter_paraclete.htm

These exchanges always go the same way. Muhammadan's ignore, blaspheme, run away, ignore, blaspheme, run away, ignore, blaspheme and run away some more. Just as is to be expected.

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Quote from: bahous on December 30, 2015, 07:22:06 AM

Quote from: ps49 on December 28, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

For starters, there's plenty of archaeological evidence to prove that "Allah" existed prior to Muhammed's so called revelations. "Allah" is actually derived from "al-ilah"; a pre-Islamic and quite pagan moon god. "Allah" was then a god peculiar to the region of Arabia and was generally considered the highest amongst the Arabic pantheon of gods. All Muhammed really did was to eliminate the pantheon and keep his favourite "Allah" to form what I might call a pagan version of monotheism. Even the esteemed crescent moon used to represent the polytheistic moon god "Allah" has been retained to this day. A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia. It is amusing to note that Muhammed thought of the Christian Trinity as Allah, Jesus and His mother Mary - how wrong can a so called prophet be?

Here's a good read:-
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Secondly, in the Bible, Genesis 1 is all about denouncing the prevalent pagan sun and moon and star worship of that time. Instead of a pantheon of gods, there is a single Creator God and the celestial objects are relegated to being nothing more than objects spoken into existence by God. It is, amongst other things, a polemic against polytheism, paganism and just the kind of moon-god worship which Islam represents to this day. Genesis 1 would have been extraordinarily divergent from the common polytheism of the time - and quite confrontational about it too.

do not forget that the Ishmaelites are descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham.

It doesn't change the truth of the matter though: Muslims worship an old pagan Arab moon-god which has no connection to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The black stone of the Ka'ba is an old pagan Arab stone idol dedicated to "Allah", the Arab moon-god, which Muslims even to this day regularly prostrate themselves before. Genesis 1 clearly shows that this sort of behaviour is not only in error but is entirely disgraceful.

Here's another link about moon-god "Allah", seemingly written by ex-Muslims:-
http://faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 03:09:25 PM
How many times bahous? We completely get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, which indicates you are not a Muslim, but instead follow a god of your own creation.?

muslims don't know the bible.

The Koran says that only who know bible deeply can recognise that Muhammed (SAWS) is a prophet of God.

I am studying bible for over 22 years Sir Wald.  i tell you the truth. i have any purposes only to tell you the truth.

Quote from: bahous on December 31, 2015, 01:16:13 PM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 03:09:25 PM
How many times bahous? We completely get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, which indicates you are not a Muslim, but instead follow a god of your own creation.?

muslims don't know the bible.

The Koran says that only who know bible deeply can recognise that Muhammed (SAWS) is a prophet of God.

I am studying bible for over 22 years Sir Wald.  i tell you the truth. i have any purposes only to tell you the truth.

But in the New Testament, Jesus warned us repeatedly, long before Muhammed was born, that we are to watch out for false prophets who will come and deceive many.

Mat 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Mat 24:11 “Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

Mat 24:24 “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

In addition to these clear warnings, it is of the utmost difficulty to believe that God would raise up a prophet from amongst the Gentiles. That would be most unusual. As for Muhammed being The Messiah, that is prophetically impossible.

Also consider how Muhammed's teachings are so opposite of what Christ told us. For starters, Jesus knew that He would have to die by the hands of iniquity and be risen on the third day. He told the disciples quite plainly ahead of time:-

Mat 20:17-19 Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”  

This forecast of Christ's fate was prophesised in the Old Testament and then shown as fulfilled in the New Testament by Jesus of Nazareth. But then in the Quran we read this:-

Quran 4:157-158 "And because of their (the Jews) saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger- they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain. But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise."

Thus it is clear that the Quran contradicts directly the basic tenets of those who have faith in Christ Jesus, The Prophesised Messiah, Son of God, Saviour of the World.

When we also consider the behaviour of Muhammed, we find him again to be the opposite of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not muster an army of blood thirsty villains to persuade people of His identity. Jesus did not engage in deceit, robbery, murder or rape. The Apostles of Chirst Jesus spread the Word of God peacably while suffering greatly at the hands of the wicked for doing so - including Paul whom you seem to focus on as if he was without works or preached differently to the twelve. They (the Apostles) gave their lives unto death for the testimony of Jesus Christ. They did so because they were entirely without doubt concerning all that they had witnessed in Christ and the identity of Jesus as The Messiah. A man might give his life for what he believes but that doesn't make his belief right; but what kind of men would give their lives for that which they know to be a lie?

It's pretty obvious that Muhammed imagined himself to be the greatest revelation of God thus in his own mind raising himself higher than the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth. Yet despite assigning himself such an impossibly high status (typical trait of a psychopath), he was unable to mimic the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ - and that is why he must deny it.

So on a purely intellectual level, is it any wonder that alarm bells ring loud and clear in the minds of Christians when presented with Muhammed and Islam? Instead of a genuine interest in the Old and New Testaments, the message of God through Christ Jesus, you seem determined to pick it apart and re-imagine what it says so as to give credibility to the Quran. You do so because deep down you know that the Quran has no credibility of its own and your desperation of it shows in your posts. The so called gospel of Barnabas which was fabricated by Muslims in the late 16th century (shortly after the failed Islamic invasion of Europe around Vienna) bears witness of this awful attitude.

If you truly worship the one and only true Living God then I suggest you first stop prostrating your self towards the idolatrous lump of rock in Mecca.  Then forget Muhammed and embrace Christ Jesus as The Messiah - it is He whom you seek.

Quote from: bahous on December 31, 2015, 01:16:13 PM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 30, 2015, 03:09:25 PM
How many times bahous? We completely get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, which indicates you are not a Muslim, but instead follow a god of your own creation.?

muslims don't know the bible.

That's easy to see from Muslim's posts. Like this sorely deluded soul in another thread who kept insisting that "The Lord came....with ten thousands of saints" in Deuteronomy was a reference to Muslims! Just look at how broken his reading and comprehension skills, and capacity for critical thought is, at this link:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4724.msg18138#msg18138

And according to the recent post by this Pakistani former Muslim, Muslims don't read the Quran much more than they do the bible:

"I tell you I have lived all my life in Islamic Pakistan, where 90% of Muslims who owned a copy of Quran but never read it and the books of Hadiths were considered a definite no, no....
Why? because sane Muslims knew how radical Islam is! yes there is nothing like moderate Islam. We never had any book of Hadith in our home, save a copy of Quran which was only read once a year during the fasting month of Ramzan by my mother and no one else."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4817.0

Another reason so many Muslims have never read the bible, is because the rate of illiteracy in Muslim countries is so high, because they haven't yet evolved out of Muhammad's 7th century and joined the civilized world:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.msg7481#msg7481

"Sennels says that “the ability to enjoy and produce knowledge and abstract thinking is simply lower in the Islamic world.” He points out that the Arab world translates just 330 books every year, about 20% of what Greece alone does.
In the last 1,200 years of Islam, just 100,000 books have been translated into Arabic, about what Spain does in a single year. Seven out of 10 Turks have never even read a book."
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.msg7481#msg7481

Quote from: bahous on December 31, 2015, 01:16:13 PM
The Koran says that only who know bible deeply can recognise that Muhammed (SAWS) is a prophet of God.

I am studying bible for over 22 years Sir Wald.  i tell you the truth.

I believe you may have studied Islamic taqiyyah and dissimulation about the bible for 22 years, but how could a person have studied the bible for 22 years and somehow missed that the whole subject of the Gospel is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, who saves all from dying in our sins who have faith in His shed blood? How could you have read the Gospel and not understood that is the whole purpose behind the Lamb of God being made manifest to the world?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

How could you have read the Gospel and not have seen the hundreds of verses that proclaim THE Son of God and His Father?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/god_the_father.htm

Quote from: bahous on December 31, 2015, 01:16:13 PMi have any purposes only to tell you the truth.

And we love you so much we only want to bring you the truth bahous, so you can have faith in what to believe, rather than placing your faith in what not to believe as you admitted earlier.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

We believe in all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, whose people have followed Him through two covenants for 3500 years.

You are compelled to DISbelieve the bible, and particularly Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18625#msg18625), and even Jesus' own prophecies (http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm#crucifixion_fulfilled), because you put your faith in Muhammad alone through his heavily abrogated (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0) 23-year 7th century record.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=336.0

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

One of the most important things to help you overcome Muhammad is to recognize who built the Kaaba, and that the kaaba was built in the 5th century AD, and that it was built it for pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1133.0

Sahih Muslim Book 007, Number 3078:  'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger may peace be upon him) said to me: Had your people not been unbelievers in the recent past (had they not quite recently accepted Islam), I would have demolished the Ka'ba and would have rebuilt it on the foundation (laid) by Ibrahim; for when the Quraish had built the Ka'ba, they reduced its (area), and I would also have built (a door) in the rear.

Since you claim to have read the bible, and I presume you have read the Quran, let me ask you a simpler question. Do you believe that God has a Spirit?

Sura 15.29: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Sura 2.87 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit.....

https://youtu.be/UuCPgpQl34g

You ignore, run away, ignore, run away and ignore and run away again. And now you try to run away from the whole thread by starting another thread, in efforts to abandon the truth as revealed in this thread that left you dumbstruck.

Your attempt at starting another thread, and every other post that fails to answer questions you have ignored over and over, go to spam until you quit breaking the oath you took when you joined the forum, and offer substantive responses to the questions you were asked in this thread.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4831.msg18637#msg18637

Why do you suppose you couldn't even answer the simple question I asked you last?

you are a liar

you prove it clearly in removing my post: where does the error come from?


if you are ia miserable Pakistani whose  suffering from famine and that has given the visa to the USA. and can be the nationality it is not surprising that you ought to your lords of hatred and lies against Islam

you have no shame when you closed my topic and you're cheating on the same nobre SUV and answers.

Quote from: bahous on January 03, 2016, 07:03:09 AM
you are a liar

you prove it clearly in removing my post: .......

Your posts are all stored in the spam section, where they will remain until such time as you decide to quit breaking the oath you took when you joined the forum, and engage in an exchange.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4831.0

I moved your initial topic from the welcome section to this more appropriate general discussion section. At least for now it will enjoy increased exposure, since your title now appears in two forum sections.

Quote from: bahous on January 03, 2016, 07:03:09 AM...... where does the error come from?


if you are ia miserable Pakistani whose  suffering from famine and that has given the visa to the USA. and can be the nationality it is not surprising that you ought to your lords of hatred and lies against Islam

you have no shame when you closed my topic and you're cheating on the same nobre SUV and answers.

Yet all you had to do was honor the vow you took when you joined the forum, that you subsequently broke in typical Muslim fashion (http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4739.msg18242#msg18242), which was to simply engage in an exchange. Your personal MO in this forum and others (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/apologetics-forum/i-am-muslim-if-you-allow-me-the-access/msg1055002189/#msg1055002189).
Why not give decent, honorable, forum citizenship a try, beginning with the post at this link?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18640#msg18640

Quote from: bahous on December 21, 2015, 05:18:15 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 18, 2015, 05:33:59 PM
Bahous, you copy and pasted HTML tags from another forum in the above quoted post. I had to go into your post and scrub them out. When you do that the incompatible tags goof up our database. If you copy and paste HTML tags from another forum again, your posts will be removed outright.

no i am scholar. I am doing searsh in the Bible for 22 years

I asked you the following question 4 times, and you ignored it every time. I already informed you that is a violation of the forum rules that you agreed to abide by when you registered. If you ignore the question again, all of your posts will be stored in the spam section until you answer the question. Is it really that difficult to answer?

you fear me. you have to create subterfuge

"Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?"

Abu bakr does not represent any thing , its a criminal like those created him

Bahous, please accept my most sincere apology for not seeing that you answered this question after the fifth time I had to ask you. When you failed to properly attribute a quote to me, along with quoting my large bold font, it apparently obscured your answer from my glance. I wish you, or another forum member, had pointed out that you already answered the question. So let's continue the discussion.

You claim the Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi "does not represent anything", even though he is a university studied Islamic scholar, whose actions would seem to be supported by the Quran and Hadith. Additionally his actions are the same brand of imperialistic aggression, slaughter and subjugation that Muhammad himself engaged in and commanded his followers to engage in.

So maybe you could begin by pointing out to us what Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has done, that  Muhammad didn't do, or prescribe for his followers to do.

Let's start with the beheading of children.
Both Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and Muhammad beheaded children, so how does beheading children during Jihad "not represent anything" Islamic, when Muhammad himself engaged in it?

The mass-murder of the innocent Jewish farm boys and their dads and grandpas of the Banu Qurayza, is looked upon by many Muslims as one of the proudest moments in Islamic history.

Ishaq:461 "After the siege exhausted and terrorized them, the Jews felt certain that the Apostle would not leave them until he had exterminated them.
Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.'
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm#jews_torah

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Abu Dawud 38:4390 Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger of God commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."

So how could you suggest beheading of children "does not represent any thing" Islamic?
Or is the beheading children part of what the Islamic State is doing, something that you yourself believes does indeed properly represent Muhammad and Islam?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18598#msg18598

"“ISIS turned up and said to the children, ‘You say the words that you will follow Mohammed,’ ”
“The children, all under 15, four of them, they said, ‘No, we love Yeshua [Jesus], we have always loved Yeshua.’
They chopped all their heads off."
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_islamic_state.htm#christian_children_beheaded

Quote from: bahous on December 21, 2015, 05:18:15 AMAbu bakr does not represent any thing , its a criminal like those created him

How does Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi "not represent anything" when it was it Muhammad and his followers that "created him"? What is he doing, from terrorism to slaughter, that Muhammad didn't do?

Surah 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them 

Surah 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."

Surah 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an.....

Of course it is a filthy lie for Muhammad's "Allah" to suggest the Gospel of the one true God binds anyone to fight and slay, so the only question here is, do you believe that Islamic terrorism and slaughter as practiced by orthodox Muslims are of Satan, or of the one true God that IS love?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=878.0

paul was a liar

Quote from: bahous on January 10, 2016, 10:32:26 AM
paul was a liar

The reason that you were unable to provide a response to my last two posts, is because the truth is so apparent, that any sane and rational person can easily see that the murderous reprobate Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is, just as Muhammad was, driven by pure black-hearted evil just as all other murderers are.

Perhaps the terrifying prospect of recognizing Muhammad for what he undeniably was, is why you lashed out by allowing Satan to guide and compel you to respond with unrelated blasphemy against Paul, when even you yourself know that you must reject Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the whole subject of the Gospel, to follow THE false prophet Muhammad alone.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18579#msg18579

Quote from: bahous on December 21, 2015, 05:18:15 AM

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 18, 2015, 05:33:59 PM


Bahous, you copy and pasted HTML tags from another forum in the above quoted post. I had to go into your post and scrub them out. When you do that the incompatible tags goof up our database. If you copy and paste HTML tags from another forum again, your posts will be removed outright.

no i am scholar. I am doing searsh in the Bible for 22 years

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 18, 2015, 05:33:59 PMI asked you the following question 4 times, and you ignored it every time. I already informed you that is a violation of the forum rules that you agreed to abide by when you registered. If you ignore the question again, all of your posts will be stored in the spam section until you answer the question. Is it really that difficult to answer?

you fear me. you have to create subterfuge

Quote from: PeteWaldo on December 18, 2015, 05:33:59 PM"Do you believe the Islamic scholar Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and The Islamic State are ruled by Satan, or by God?"

Abu bakr does not represent any thing , its a criminal like those created him

So then you believe that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his followers are ruled by Satan?

Dear Bahous

May I please give you some guidance?

John the Baptist was Elijah (symbolicallyâ€"Matthew 11:13-14 & Luke 1:13-17 & Malachi 4:5), the one who came to announce the Messiah, and that person (Messiah) was Jesus (Yeshua, His Hebrew name). See http://clearbibleanswers.org/questionsanswers/124-jesus-said-that-john-the-baptist-was-the-elijah-to-come-but-john-denied-it-.html

The only way to have your question(s) answered is to read the entire Bible for yourself. You really must start at the beginning, in Genesis. Yes, it will take time, so start immediately Winking smile . Jesus (Yeshua) is pictured in every book of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. He doesn’t just show up near the end of the book. Most prophecies about Him are found in what is known as the “Old Testament”. The “New Testament” heavily quotes from the Old Testament because the Old Testament (OT) is ALL that there was when Jesus (Yeshua) was here on earth. It is ALL that the Apostles had. The books of the New Testament (NT) were written later, and as I mentioned, the writers quoted heavily from the OT to prove that Jesus (Yeshua) was the Messiah/Redeemer Who existed from the beginning and was pictured or prophesied about all through the OT.

Jesus (Yeshua) was/is God in the Flesh and He was/is the Word of God from the beginning as you will read in the Scriptures. He obeyed ALL of His Father’s Commands (which were His own Commands since He was/is God) and that is how He was able to die in our place as a substitute because He never sinned (broke God’s Commands) like all other humans do. He DID break the commandments and traditions of men (Pharisees/Rabbinical Judaism) that had added to and taken away from God’s Commands; it was these false teachings that He came to expose and correct, and for that these religious leaders hated him and ultimately had him killed. But----He allowed it for His Own purposes---He laid down His Own Life willingly so that we would not have to pay for our sins (breaking God’s Commandments) ourselves. We cannot say that the “Jews” killed him, we can say that false teachers and false religion of ANY “flavor” would have done the same in their shoes (because religious leaders do not want anyone rocking the boat and messing up their system of control and raking in the cash).

One of the reasons for reading the Bible for yourself, and starting from the beginning is that it is a story about the Messiah, the Redeemer, that develops over time and through the many books of Scripture. Any book is to be read from the beginning to the end, not the other way around! He is pictured in many ways throughout the Bible; the whole entire Book is about Him! As you read, you need to look for these. All verses and themes are to be backed up by other verses and themes. One can not take a verse out of context and build an idea or theology out of it---everything is built on two or three “witnesses”. Also, keep in mind that Jesus (Yeshua) participated in God’s “Appointed Times”, the 7 Feasts of God and the Sabbath. He was present to hear the Law of Moses every Sabbath with His parents, and eventually taught in the Temple on Sabbath; He died at Passover, was buried during Unleavened Bread and rose from the grave on First Fruits. His Holy Spirit was given to believers at Pentecost (Shavuot). He is scheduled to finish out the rest of the Holy Days (Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkot), and likely VERY soon. Most of Christendom has no clue about this because in their effort of being anti-Semetic they exchanged God’s Holy Days for pagan holidays like Easter and Christmas. God’s Holy Days are so deeply rich with meaning, and so beautifully profound that it can not compare to the pagan holidays. Which brings me to my second point.

Another reason to read the Bible for yourself, is that many Christians do not fully understand the Bible because Christendom is fraught with false teachings that came from paganism, and they pick and choose verses, totally ignoring important teachings or claiming that Paul and Jesus taught something exactly opposite of what they actually did teach. They have received many wrong teachings and traditions of men from what is known as the “Early Church Fathers.” Church history shows that the “Early Church Fathers” rejected much of the OT and some of Paul’s and Jesus’ own words and tried to distance themselves from anything “Jewish”, even though Jesus and Paul and the Apostles were all Jewish and the oracles of God were given to the Jews to share with the rest of the world. The Prophets (in the OT) were all Jewish. The Bible is a Jewish book about a Jewish Messiah/Redeemer, but just like the Pharisees who made up extra laws and took away from God’s Laws, so too did the Early Church Fathers which eventually led to the Catholic Church, and then later the Protestants. The false teachings and traditions of men were also accepted by others such as the Baptists and Brethren, etc. These all have been heavily influenced by a man named Marcion (who lived from 85 to 160 AD), and other misguided men, and unbiblical traditions of men, incorporating pagan practices into Christianity making it an impure mixture. It is very hard to get to the truth when you have the blind leading the blind in many instances. People who are willing to study and dig to find the truth will find it. The others are happy to let the religious leaders tell them what to believe (this is in ANY religion) without checking to see if what they are being told is the truth. For example, Islam is a fairly new religion that began in the middle 600’s, 600+ years after Jesus (Yeshua) came on the planet. Exactly how and when did Islam come to be???? I ask Catholics and Protestants the same question. Research historical truth from various sources, not what the religion or denomination says happenedâ€"their goal is to deceive.

For a good place to start, besides reading the Bible for yourself, you can read from www.therefinersfire.org . I do not agree with everything on the site, but you will learn a lot of the correct understanding of the Bible and what Jesus (Yeshua) and Paul, etc. ACTUALLY taught without being exposed to a lot of false teachings within mainstream Christendom. “The Chronological Gospels” is a book written by Michael Rood that explains the Messiah’s 70 week ministry (not three years like most of Christendom falsely teaches). Again, I do not agree with everything he teaches, but this book will help you gain the understanding and truth you desire to obtain. Passion for Truth Ministries and Corner Fringe Ministries are two other places to hear and learn what most of Christendom rejects which makes most of Christendom unable and unqualified to instruct according to what the Bible really says and means. These are all Messianic teachers and most of what they teach is sound, but beware of others who are also “Messianic” teachers that teach things that are not right and give the Messianic/Hebrew Roots Movement a bad name. Last but not least, this website is very valuable to help you understand what Islam is and is not. Please take advantage of their articles and earnestly ask the True Creator to show you the truth. May the True and Living God open your eyes.

Hello Shining Waters and welcome to the forum! :)

Quote from: Shining Waters on May 15, 2016, 09:36:59 PMThese all have been heavily influenced by a man named Marcion (who lived from 85 to 160 AD), and other misguided men, and unbiblical traditions of men, incorporating pagan practices into Christianity making it an impure mixture.

On a quick study of "Marcionism" I can't quite see it, particularly since I tend to point the finger more at the 19th century false prophets/teachers (like John Nelson Darby by way of Ribera/de Lacunza) for the state of the institutional "church", but even more so 17th century Jesuit Luis Alcazar's preterism that breeds anti-Zionism and even outright antisemitism.

But then if the institutional church didn't "heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears" and it weren't for the rampant apostasy of today, then the prophecies thereof would not be being so convincingly fulfilled!
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/traditional_framework.htm#cults
http://www.christianeschatology.com/falling_away_apostasy.htm

However our forum is more focused on pointing out the truth about Islam and bringing the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to to Muhammad's followers than critiquing the institutional church.

Again, welcome to the forum!

I agree…Darby and others have done much damage, but Marcion may be where they get that from, at least in part. Check out these three articles:

https://carm.org/what-is-marcionism

http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm

http://www.spiritandtorah.com/marcion.html

If a person leaves Islam (or Hindu or Buddhist or any false religion) and ends up a Catholic or one of her daughters, how are they better off? This is why the apostasy within Christendom needs to be warned about and explained to them so that they don’t just jump from the frying pan into the fire by believing that saying “the sinner’s prayer” a prayer asking Jesus into their heart is all they need to get their ticket to heaven. That is not true, (even the demons believe and tremble-James 2) so they need to be shown what to avoid or they won’t be any better off spiritually.
http://www.sfee.info/Billy_Sunday_name_it_and_claim_it_evangelist.htm
http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm
Billy Graham was in the habit of sending people, (who supposedly got saved at his Crusades by saying the unbiblical “sinner’s prayer”), back to their churches, instead of helping them find congregations that held to the truth. They could be sent back to Catholic churches, Lutheran, etc. They could be sent back to very liberal churches, LGBT type with “pastors” being LGBT, or churches that support demonic rock music calling it “Christian” or any other liberal thing under the sun. Christendom is in a horrible mess spiritually and the Word says to “come out from among them”. Grace is taught as license to sin and it has wreaked havoc in the church. When people try to worship the God of Heaven in ways they were specifically told not to (x-mas/Easter and other ways) they are actually forfeiting any chance of entering into the Kingdom, but they believe they have the truth because they believe their false religious leaders instead of studying for themselves. This is serious and the consequences are eternal. The way is narrow, not wide. They are trying to climb in some other way which is considered being a thief and a robber. There is only one door to enter into. John 10:1
Shoebat is a good example of leaving Islam and becoming anti-Semitic and sympathetic toward Catholicism because his wife is Catholic. He bashes anything to do with Hebrew Roots (which does have its problems) but you don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sure, he correctly identifies Islam as the anti-Christ beast system, but now he is apparently a Catholic, so he’s really no better off spiritually and he is misleading people spiritually.
We have a responsibility to present Muslims and others with “the faith that was once delivered to the saints” and that is not what is presented within Christendom as a whole today. Jude 1 That is why I believe that we must critique some of these things that are a part of apostate Christendom, to make sure they don’t come out of Islam only to end up worshipping a baby x-mas jesus, etc..

Quote from: Shining Waters on May 17, 2016, 10:58:56 AM
I agree…Darby and others have done much damage, but Marcion may be where they get that from, at least in part. Check out these three articles:

https://carm.org/what-is-marcionism

http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm

http://www.spiritandtorah.com/marcion.html

If a person leaves Islam (or Hindu or Buddhist or any false religion) and ends up a Catholic or one of her daughters, how are they better off?

You confirmed my concerns regarding your having found your way into the wrong forum. There is no shortage of forums where Christians like to argue with great acrimony toward each other over their differences. This forum is not one of them. This is the Islam/Muslim - Christian forum which describes our focus.
Nor is this reply intended to encourage you to post further, in your effort to divide the body of Christ, more than it already is. While we are not champions of Roman Catholicism as that forum category reveals, we believe that one is saved by the condition of one's heart rather than the doctrine one happens to keep. In answer to your careless and perhaps borderline blasphemous question:

Catholics believe they are saved from dying in their sins through faith in the shed blood of the sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.

Muslims must deny that Christ was crucified - the basis of the whole subject of the Gospel - and thus must reject the shed blood that would save them, as an article of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad alone.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/

Catholics confess that Jesus is the Son of God.

Muslims are specifically antichrist because they must deny that Jesus is the Son of God as another article of their faith, in the false prophet Muhammad alone, while even engaging in blasphemy against Him.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

Indeed Muslims are soooo antichrist, they are taught that to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus' name, would be to commit the single most "heinous" and only unforgivable sin in the false prophet Muhammad's cult. A sin worse than child rape or cold-blooded mass murder for example (and both of which Muhammad happened to be guilty of committing).
http://www.petewaldo.com/unforgivable_shirk.htm

Islam is an inversion of the Gospel, inspired by Satan himself, through his "messenger" Muhammad.

Quote from: Shining Waters on May 17, 2016, 10:58:56 AMThis is why the apostasy within Christendom needs to be warned about and explained to them so that they don’t just jump from the frying pan into the fire by believing that saying “the sinner’s prayer” a prayer asking Jesus into their heart is all they need to get their ticket to heaven. That is not true, (even the demons believe and tremble-James 2) so they need to be shown what to avoid or they won’t be any better off spiritually.
http://www.sfee.info/Billy_Sunday_name_it_and_claim_it_evangelist.htm
http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm
Billy Graham was in the habit of sending people, (who supposedly got saved at his Crusades by saying the unbiblical “sinner’s prayer”), back to their churches, instead of helping them find congregations that held to the truth. They could be sent back to Catholic churches, Lutheran, etc. They could be sent back to very liberal churches, LGBT type with “pastors” being LGBT, or churches that support demonic rock music calling it “Christian” or any other liberal thing under the sun. Christendom is in a horrible mess spiritually and the Word says to “come out from among them”. Grace is taught as license to sin and it has wreaked havoc in the church. When people try to worship the God of Heaven in ways they were specifically told not to (x-mas/Easter and other ways) they are actually forfeiting any chance of entering into the Kingdom, but they believe they have the truth because they believe their false religious leaders instead of studying for themselves. This is serious and the consequences are eternal. The way is narrow, not wide. They are trying to climb in some other way which is considered being a thief and a robber. There is only one door to enter into. John 10:1
Shoebat is a good example of leaving Islam and becoming anti-Semitic.........

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be.......false accusers.....

Quote from: Shining Waters on May 17, 2016, 10:58:56 AM........and sympathetic toward Catholicism because his wife is Catholic. He bashes anything to do with Hebrew Roots (which does have its problems) but you don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sure, he correctly identifies Islam as the anti-Christ beast system, but now he is apparently a Catholic, so he’s really no better off spiritually and he is misleading people spiritually.
We have a responsibility to present Muslims and others with “the faith that was once delivered to the saints” and that is not what is presented within Christendom as a whole today. Jude 1 That is why I believe that we must critique some of these things that are a part of apostate Christendom, to make sure they don’t come out of Islam only to end up worshipping a baby x-mas jesus, etc..

I would appreciate it if you would find your way to a different forum where you might be more welcome.

Quote from: Shining Waters on May 17, 2016, 10:58:56 AM
I agree…Darby and others have done much damage, but Marcion may be where they get that from, at least in part. Check out these three articles:

https://carm.org/what-is-marcionism

http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm

http://www.spiritandtorah.com/marcion.html

If a person leaves Islam (or Hindu or Buddhist or any false religion) and ends up a Catholic or one of her daughters, how are they better off? This is why the apostasy within Christendom needs to be warned about and explained to them so that they don’t just jump from the frying pan into the fire by believing that saying “the sinner’s prayer” a prayer asking Jesus into their heart is all they need to get their ticket to heaven. That is not true, (even the demons believe and tremble-James 2) so they need to be shown what to avoid or they won’t be any better off spiritually.
http://www.sfee.info/Billy_Sunday_name_it_and_claim_it_evangelist.htm
http://www.bible.ca/g-sinners-prayer.htm
Billy Graham was in the habit of sending people, (who supposedly got saved at his Crusades by saying the unbiblical “sinner’s prayer”), back to their churches, instead of helping them find congregations that held to the truth. They could be sent back to Catholic churches, Lutheran, etc. They could be sent back to very liberal churches, LGBT type with “pastors” being LGBT, or churches that support demonic rock music calling it “Christian” or any other liberal thing under the sun. Christendom is in a horrible mess spiritually and the Word says to “come out from among them”. Grace is taught as license to sin and it has wreaked havoc in the church. When people try to worship the God of Heaven in ways they were specifically told not to (x-mas/Easter and other ways) they are actually forfeiting any chance of entering into the Kingdom, but they believe they have the truth because they believe their false religious leaders instead of studying for themselves. This is serious and the consequences are eternal. The way is narrow, not wide. They are trying to climb in some other way which is considered being a thief and a robber. There is only one door to enter into. John 10:1
Shoebat is a good example of leaving Islam and becoming anti-Semitic and sympathetic toward Catholicism because his wife is Catholic. He bashes anything to do with Hebrew Roots (which does have its problems) but you don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sure, he correctly identifies Islam as the anti-Christ beast system, but now he is apparently a Catholic, so he’s really no better off spiritually and he is misleading people spiritually.
We have a responsibility to present Muslims and others with “the faith that was once delivered to the saints” and that is not what is presented within Christendom as a whole today. Jude 1 That is why I believe that we must critique some of these things that are a part of apostate Christendom, to make sure they don’t come out of Islam only to end up worshipping a baby x-mas jesus, etc..

While I agree that idolatry and whatnot are rampant in RCC (as is evidenced in some of the brotherpete links found elsewhere), this is not the place to address those things.  There are PLENTY of other chat forums out there to expose the errors within the RCC or wherever else.  If you are going to remain in this forum, please address Islam, it's anti-God/anti-Gospel/anti-Christ nature, and it's role in the fulfilling of prophecy.

I agree 100% with your assessment of Islam and value the work you have done. I was under the impression when I first joined that you were of the same mind, but I guess not. So don’t worry, I’m getting off this blog. As long as you point out the errors in Islam, that’s all that counts, apparently…and we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and let the chips fall where they may if they convert to some form of Christendom that isn’t spiritually right.

I was inclined to reply to Bahous’ first inquiry about who Elias (Elijah) was. No one on this blog ever answered his post, that I could see from months ago. This man should have been shown from the Bible right then that John the Baptist was symbolically Elijah. Who knows how much that would have helped him. I felt compelled to do what I could to help him understand.

The Word of God is what causes divisions, not me (Luke 12:51-53, Matthew 10:34-35, John 7:43 KJV). You are willing to go to great lengths to expose the lies and falsehood of Islam, but not expose and warn of the apostasy within Christendom, that you want Muslims to convert to. Whatever happened to Bible believers being a watchman and a guard for the truth, and not letting people fall into the hands of wolves in sheep’s clothing (I Timothy 6:20-21)? Not everyone who claims to know Jesus (Yeshua) gets in (Matthew 7:21-23).

The Popes claim to be a substitute (Vicar) for Christ and declares his authority to add and take away commandments of God (forbidden in Scripture: Deut.4:2, Proverbs 30:6 & Rev. 22:18-19), Mary is elevated above Christ and is considered the Mediatrix (Mediatorâ€"a roll that is uniquely Christ’s (Yeshua)) so it IS an anti-christ system as their Mary is Semeramis and their jesus  is Tammuz and not the Jesus of the Scriptures, so that the real Jesus IS being denied (spiritually but not outwardly-- Matthew 23: 28). The average RC might not know that, but the Pope and upper clergy do.

Would you have potential Muslim converts switch from moon worship to Babylonian sun-god worship? Or Scientology or Mormonism or Unitarianism or Jehovah Witnesses or Churches that teach Chrislam  http://www.exposingchrislam.com/  , or Freemasons, or New Age religions that ALL use the Bible and claim to know a jesus when these jesus’ are all false, thus making them all anti-Christ in some form (I John 4:1 & 2 Tim. 3:1-17) and voiding the Word of God (Mark 7:13, Matthew 15:6) and ending up in a worse state (Matthew 12:23)??? Doctrine and truth makes all the difference in the world and people can be deceived regarding their hearts (Jeremiah 17:1, Mark 7:21, Matthew 12:35, James 1:22-25).

I know that Muslims have a problem with RCC because of the Crusades and Inquisition and their claim to be “Christian” while murdering others that didn’t accept their false theology. What do you tell them?

All I am saying is that if you are going to pinpoint with accuracy the falseness of Islam (which I commend you for), then in order not be hypocritical in their eyes, you should also admit to and pinpoint the apostasy within Christendom to help them sort things out when they convert. That is what is required of all believers, in the Scriptures.

Quote from: Shining Waters on May 18, 2016, 05:47:24 PM
I agree 100% with your assessment of Islam and value the work you have done. I was under the impression when I first joined that you were of the same mind, but I guess not. So don’t worry, I’m getting off this blog. As long as you point out the errors in Islam, that’s all that counts, apparently…and we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and let the chips fall where they may if they convert to some form of Christendom that isn’t spiritually right.

I was inclined to reply to Bahous’ first inquiry about who Elias (Elijah) was. No one on this blog ever answered his post, that I could see from months ago. This man should have been shown from the Bible right then that John the Baptist was symbolically Elijah. Who knows how much that would have helped him. I felt compelled to do what I could to help him understand.

The Word of God is what causes divisions, not me (Luke 12:51-53, Matthew 10:34-35, John 7:43 KJV). You are willing to go to great lengths to expose the lies and falsehood of Islam, but not expose and warn of the apostasy within Christendom, that you want Muslims to convert to. Whatever happened to Bible believers being a watchman and a guard for the truth, and not letting people fall into the hands of wolves in sheep’s clothing (I Timothy 6:20-21)? Not everyone who claims to know Jesus (Yeshua) gets in (Matthew 7:21-23).

The Popes claim to be a substitute (Vicar) for Christ and declares his authority to add and take away commandments of God (forbidden in Scripture: Deut.4:2, Proverbs 30:6 & Rev. 22:18-19), Mary is elevated above Christ and is considered the Mediatrix (Mediatorâ€"a roll that is uniquely Christ’s (Yeshua)) so it IS an anti-christ system as their Mary is Semeramis and their jesus  is Tammuz and not the Jesus of the Scriptures, so that the real Jesus IS being denied (spiritually but not outwardly-- Matthew 23: 28). The average RC might not know that, but the Pope and upper clergy do.

Would you have potential Muslim converts switch from moon worship to Babylonian sun-god worship? Or Scientology or Mormonism or Unitarianism or Jehovah Witnesses or Churches that teach Chrislam  http://www.exposingchrislam.com/  , or Freemasons, or New Age religions that ALL use the Bible and claim to know a jesus when these jesus’ are all false, thus making them all anti-Christ in some form (I John 4:1 & 2 Tim. 3:1-17) and voiding the Word of God (Mark 7:13, Matthew 15:6) and ending up in a worse state (Matthew 12:23)??? Doctrine and truth makes all the difference in the world and people can be deceived regarding their hearts (Jeremiah 17:1, Mark 7:21, Matthew 12:35, James 1:22-25).

I know that Muslims have a problem with RCC because of the Crusades and Inquisition and their claim to be “Christian” while murdering others that didn’t accept their false theology. What do you tell them?

All I am saying is that if you are going to pinpoint with accuracy the falseness of Islam (which I commend you for), then in order not be hypocritical in their eyes, you should also admit to and pinpoint the apostasy within Christendom to help them sort things out when they convert. That is what is required of all believers, in the Scriptures.

Noted... thanks for stopping by.