I am muslim, and i want to asq some questions

[bahous]

Nor can I find anything in the Quran to identify Muhammed as Messiah. What have you been reading?

Muhammed ( SAWS) is not the only one in the Qur'an that is not called Messiah.

David, Solomon and Saul are not yet .

the Messiah is a mission .
all the qualifiers and merits of the Messiah are fulfilled in the person of Muhammed ( SAWS) .

Allah, in my opinion, has avoided him  to state that he is Messiah  . because as we know thousands of liars came and expressed their selves as  messiah but in reality they were only liars.

Allah wanted the witness to Muhammad ( SAWS) is fully independent of the Quran

I have done great studies and I came to the idea that Muhammed ( SAWS) is indeed the Messiah.

[PeteWaldo]

Nor can I find anything in the Quran to identify Muhammed as Messiah. What have you been reading?

Muhammed ( SAWS) is not the only one in the Qur'an that is not called Messiah.

David, Solomon and Saul are not yet .

the Messiah is a mission .
all the qualifiers and merits of the Messiah are fulfilled in the person of Muhammed ( SAWS).

Which "qualifiers and merits"?
The rape and sexual abuse of a 9 year old little girl?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=769.0
The mass-murder of those innocent, peaceful, faithful Jewish farm boys and their dads and grandpas?
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm#farm_boys
The rape and sexual slavery of their little sisters, moms and grandmothers?
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm#abuse
The theft of the property of others, with 1/5 of it going to Muhammad, just like a Mafia Don?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2075.0
The theft of Muhammad's monogamous stepson's only wife?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=929.0

http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm#muhammads_cruelty
Jesus healed the lame so they could walk.
Muhammad brought lameness to the walking.
Jesus brought sight to the blind.
Muhammad brought blindness to the seeing.
Jesus was crucified.
Muhammad crucified.
Jesus brought the dead back to life.
Mohammed mass murdered the living.
Jesus is sinless.
Muhammad was one of the most sinful wretches of all time. No wonder he claimed he didn't know what God was going to do with him. But it's my guess he knew darned well what God would do with him as reward for his reprobate behavior.

Allah, in my opinion, has avoided him  to state that he is Messiah  . because as we know thousands of liars came and expressed their selves as  messiah but in reality they were only liars.

Allah wanted the witness to Muhammad ( SAWS) is fully independent of the Quran

I have done great studies and I came to the idea that Muhammed ( SAWS) is indeed the Messiah.

So then you're just some lone cowboy out there, with a conclusion so ridiculous that not even the false prophet Muhammad's followers made it, over the 1400 years of Islamic history. Well done!
But ps49 asked you WHAT you have been reading. Be specific about sources and quote from those sources. Your self-delusion that prompted your false conclusions has so far ranged from beyond absurd, to disjointedly incomprehensible. If you fail to provide sources that were requested (beyond the abysmal abuse of truth you posted so far) and since Muslims do not believe Muhammad was the Messiah, all you will accomplish is further confirm that you aren't even a Muslim but instead some random individual that follows a god of his own creation. Just another man broken by the father of lies.

Why is it that Muslims so often act as though they believe, that if they simply repeat hollow and empty claims enough times, that somehow they will magically come true?
But THE truth doesn't work that way:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Your choice bahous. The Son of God or the wrath of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

If you had ever read the Gospel you would have known what antichrists such as yourself are headed for. You could die this very day my friend. Tomorrow may be too late.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

[bahous]

I can't find anything in the Old Testament to suggest that Messiah would be born in Mecca or from amongst the gentiles. Messiah was prophesised to be born of the tribe of Judah, in Bethlehem from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David.

Nor can I find anything to suggest that Messiah would arrive during the 7th century AD as per Muhammed. According to Daniel the prophet, Messiah was to be in the world by AD 32.

Isaiah the prophet states that the Messiah would be born from a virgin. Was Muhammed's mother a virgin at his birth?

Nor can I find anything in the Quran to identify Muhammed as Messiah. What have you been reading?

do not listen to those who have gone astray .

throughout the entire Bible announce that Messiah would come from  Arabia, Seir , Petra , the Arabian Peninsula , south to the distant land, of Kedar , and that Messiah is ignorant.
I give you this famous verse that announces the Messiah.

and I invite you to dissect it

Esais 42 :

Behold my servant, I will uphold him: my elect,
my soul delighteth in him: I have given my spirit
upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the
Gentiles.
............
10 Sing ye to the Lord a new song, his praise
is from the ends of the earth: you that go down
to the sea, and all that are therein: ye islands,
and ye inhabitants of them.
11 Let the desert and the cities thereof be exalted:
Cedar shall dwell in houses: ye inhabitants
of Petra, give praise, they shall cry from
the top of the mountains.[/size]
.................
19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, but
he to whom I have sent my messengers? Who is
blind, but he that is sold? or who is blind, but
the servant of the Lord?[/size]
---------------

you can not see because you are blinded by Paul the liar

see again that Paul was lying : Corintians 11/3-:”4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Christ, whom we have not preached; or if you receive another Spirit, whom you have not received; or another gospel which you have not received; you might well bear with him. 5 For I suppose that I have done nothing less than the great apostles.

-----------------

Kedar are Ismael's son . Petra is north of Arabia , the end of earth is in Yemen actually
Paul recognises that the Apostles were preaching another Christ and another Gospel.

Paul was heritic . don't let you listening to him

[bahous]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Your choice bahous. The Son of God or the wrath of God.

John the fourth book is a fake.

he had in mind to correct the synoptic

[ps49]

"And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto God)." Quran 3:45

You can't be a Muslim and deny that Jesus was and is the Messiah.

Muhammed ( SAWS) is not the only one in the Qur'an that is not called Messiah.

David, Solomon and Saul are not yet .

the Messiah is a mission .

Several posts back you tried to convince us that the word messiah is a name and not a title as is commonly understood. Now you say something completely different; that messiah is a mission and that there are many messiahs. The Old Testament prophesised only one Messiah. The Quran also speaks of Messiah in the singular. You are like a man trying each from a bunch of keys and hoping that one will fit the lock!

Allah wanted the witness to Muhammad ( SAWS) is fully independent of the Quran

I have done great studies and I came to the idea that Muhammed ( SAWS) is indeed the Messiah.

You can't be a follower of Muhammed and deny the absolute authority of the Quran, which states that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

Allah, in my opinion, has avoided him  to state that he is Messiah  . because as we know thousands of liars came and expressed their selves as  messiah but in reality they were only liars.

I am absolutely convinced that you have invented the whole idea; that Muhammed is the Messiah or a messiah. You have nothing solid or convincing to say or quote on the matter. I asked you about what have you been reading, hoping you would provide sources. However it seems you have not read anything except the whims of your own imagination.

all the qualifiers and merits of the Messiah are fulfilled in the person of Muhammed

Hang on - now you speak of the Messiah, ie as in the singular. I'm not sure if you believe there is only one Messiah or several now. So which is it bahous? One or many messiahs??

Nevertheless, the qualifiers and merits of the Messiah are in no ways met in the person of Muhammed. I repeat from my earlier post:-

I can't find anything in the Old Testament to suggest that Messiah would be born in Mecca or from amongst the gentiles. Messiah was prophesised to be born of the tribe of Judah, in Bethlehem from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David.

Nor can I find anything to suggest that Messiah would arrive during the 7th century AD as per Muhammed. According to Daniel the prophet, Messiah was to be in the world by AD 32.

Isaiah the prophet states that the Messiah would be born from a virgin. Was Muhammed's mother a virgin at his birth?

There are dozens of prophetic Old Testament qualifiers for Messiah. I have just picked those three for now, for the simplicity of it. You avoided them once; will you avoid them again? Muhammed was born in the wrong place, at the wrong time, from the wrong people and in the wrong manner of conception!

[PeteWaldo]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Your choice bahous. The Son of God or the wrath of God.

John the fourth book is a fake.

he had in mind to correct the synoptic

First Paul is a fake, and now John is a fake. But it doesn't matter where we turn to in the inspired scriptures of the one true God, bahous. Can't you see that because you follow the stand-alone antichrist Muhammad alone, through his heavily abrogated stand-alone 23-year 7th century antichrist record, you must necessarily reject all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 record of Yahweh to mankind? Indeed you don't follow Muhammad as much as you do lying deceiving antichrist like Ahmed Deedat, who even lied about Muhammad being antichrist. Please watch the video on this web page and you can see the provable lies he engaged in to dupe unsuspecting folks like you. This is the very same KJV version Deedat pretended to quote from:

http://www.islamandthetruth.com/first_epistle_john.htm

Can you see how Deedat played his adoring bible-ignorant minions for fools?
The reason you must DISbelieve the crucifixion, and thus REJECT the shed blood that would save you, while DENYING and even blaspheming THE Son of God, is because you follow the father of lies through his "messenger" Muhammad. Islam is an exact INVERSION of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, just as Muhammad was an exact INVERSION of the sinless Messiah - of the spotless Lamb of God.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Let's start with just the scriptures that contain the article "the" with "Son of God":
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Matthew 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Matthew 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

John 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Romans 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

*Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

You reject the one true God, because you choose to follow the antichrist 7th century false prophet Muhammad alone. That makes you an antichrist as well:

1 John 2:22 ..... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.....

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

See? You believe Muhammad's pure blasphemy against the Son of God. And all because you choose to follow a stand-alone murdering, raping, enslaving, imperialistic conquering, antichrist, terrorist, thief.

[PeteWaldo]

By Muhammad's 7th century, the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, copied tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. It would obviously have been impossible to go back and retrieve all of those tens of thousands of copies of the Gospel, and then uniformly edit them in all those languages, so that somehow the whole subject became the exact opposite of what it had been! Only a madman could believe something so ridiculous, wouldn't you agree?

Yet in that same 7th century Muhammad claimed his "Allah" revealed to him:

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

Besides the Gospel accounts pasted into the forum thread at this link.....
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1175.msg6083#msg6083
.....you can see from even the few verses in the prior post, just a small taste of what is "revealed therein".

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

So was Muhammad's Allah just so crazily confused, that he made what you can only consider to be, such a conspicuously foolish blunder?
How do you explain Muhammad's "Allah's" apparent dysfunction my friend?

[bahous]

"And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary[/b], illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto God)." Quran 3:45 .You can't be a Muslim and deny that Jesus was and is the Messiah.

yes I agree , read again what you have written and you can acknowledge that Messiah is a second name of Jesus.

Several posts back you tried to convince us that the word messiah is a name and not a title as is commonly understood. Now you say something completely different; that messiah is a mission and that there are many messiahs. The Old Testament prophesised only one Messiah. The Quran also speaks of Messiah in the singular. You are like a man trying each from a bunch of keys and hoping that one will fit the lock!

you are wrong Messiah in the old testament means the king choosen by Yahwé. and David , Salomon an Saul all were messiah of Israelite peiople.

but the Messiah with article The and Capital letter is one preached by all the scriptures from Moses to Jesus. here are the verses;

John 7/31: " 31 But of the people many believed in him, and said: When the Christ cometh, shall he do more miracles, than these which this man doth? "

you can see by yourself that the verb come is conjugate in future , this man is reffering to Jesus. and a good believers who were living at Jesus's time are well placed to teach us of The messiah

II- Mark 8/27 :" 27 And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi. And in the way, he asked his disciples, saying to them: Whom do men say that I am?
28 Who answered him, saying: John the Baptist; but some Elias, and others as one of the prophets. 29 Then he saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Peter answering said to him:
Thou art the Christ. 30 And he strictly charged them that they

you can notice by yourself no believer at his time was supposing Jesus as the Messieh. this mean clearly that Jesus had never taugt he was the Messiah.

and when Peter as anyone jew that the Messiah is of desendant of david Jesus they charged them to tell anyone.


111- Peter's speech

Act 3/17-25 :" 19 Be penitent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. 1412 The Acts of the Apostles 20 That when the times of refreshment shall
come from the presence of the Lord, and he shall send him who hath been preached unto you,

 Jesus Christ, 21 Whom heaven indeed must receive, until the times of the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets, from the beginning of the world.
22 For Moses said: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me: him you shall hear according to all things whatsoever he shall speak to you.
23 And it shall be, that every soul which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 And all the prophets, from Samuel and afterwards, who have spoken, have told of these

after after the disappearance of Jesus, Peter wants the Jews repent of their sin that of not believing in Jesus and God could bring rest times and it will send one that was preached to them in advance.

Jesus must remain in heaven until the renewal of all things. what Moses had predicted in the law : send the prophet of their brother

You can't be a follower of Muhammed and deny the absolute authority of the Quran, which states that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

the right comprehension of Koran is that Jesus has a second name messiah. this is only a name this is not a title like you Christains understand.

[PeteWaldo]

Your further efforts are pointless. We fully understand that you are trying to communicate that you are neither Christian, nor Muslim, but follow a god of your own creation.

I moved your non-responsive posts into spam storage, where they will remain until you begin to observe forum rules and engage in an exchange
Everything will go to spam until you do.
We continue to answer your questions. Running and hiding from our questions is not acceptable forum citizenship. Please respond to the question I asked you - 5 times already - as if your forum membership depended upon it:
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18577#msg18577

Then please respond to the post before the one you posted now. How could Muhammad's "Allah" have been so ignorant or foolish as to have made, what you can only believe was a horrible recommendation?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=4807.msg18603#msg18603

[bahous]

 you can not do nothing other  than what you are just doing

you can not face the truth


I do not allow anyone dictating me his condirtions

[PeteWaldo]

 you can not do nothing other  than what you are just doing

you can not face the truth

As has become obvious to all, there is no truth in your posts, but only very personal one-off false presumption that even your fellow Muslims disagree with.
The truth is you can't answer those simple questions, because they make obvious that your "messenger" was a confused, self-serving, morally reprobate fraud, that simply made up stuff as he went along. Then later after his psychotic break had to "annul" and "consign to oblivion" his earlier and contradictory Mecca drivel.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0

You can't speak against the Islamic State, because there is no filthy reprobate behavior they engage in, that Muhammad didn't engage in and/or command his followers to engage in.

I do not allow anyone dictating me his condirtions

That's right. Not even when you are under contractual obligation to engage in an exchange.
What you mean is that you go around agreeing to forum rules in order to join, fully intending to ignore the oath you took, because Muhammad's "Allah" allows you to break your vow when something better comes along.

For onlookers, just imagine what kind of a world it would be, if everyone were Muslim and nobody felt any obligation to honor the oaths or vows that they took. This is why Middle East Muslim nations haven't developed beyond 7th century standards, since nobody can trust his neighbor to honor a contract.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

Likely even most atheists have a better sense of moral obligation than that.

[ps49]

The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

For starters, there's plenty of archaeological evidence to prove that "Allah" existed prior to Muhammed's so called revelations. "Allah" is actually derived from "al-ilah"; a pre-Islamic and quite pagan moon god. "Allah" was then a god peculiar to the region of Arabia and was generally considered the highest amongst the Arabic pantheon of gods. All Muhammed really did was to eliminate the pantheon and keep his favourite "Allah" to form what I might call a pagan version of monotheism. Even the esteemed crescent moon used to represent the polytheistic moon god "Allah" has been retained to this day. A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia. It is amusing to note that Muhammed thought of the Christian Trinity as Allah, Jesus and His mother Mary - how wrong can a so called prophet be?

Here's a good read:-
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Secondly, in the Bible, Genesis 1 is all about denouncing the prevalent pagan sun and moon and star worship of that time. Instead of a pantheon of gods, there is a single Creator God and the celestial objects are relegated to being nothing more than objects spoken into existence by God. It is, amongst other things, a polemic against polytheism, paganism and just the kind of moon-god worship which Islam represents to this day. Genesis 1 would have been extraordinarily divergent from the common polytheism of the time - and quite confrontational about it too.

[PeteWaldo]

The Arabian pagan's ritual of Ramadan was hijacked directly from Harannian and Sabian moon god worship.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/origin_of_ramadan.htm

Which of course is why it is held during the month that begins and ends with the sighting of the crescent moon in the sky.

More on the etymology of the Arabian pagan's moon god's name "Allah":
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_name_allah.htm#etymology_name_allah

A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia.

Follow the dots with me here:
http://www.petewaldo.com/simon_magnus_gnostics_ebionites_islam.htm#simon_magus

[bahous]

The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

For starters, there's plenty of archaeological evidence to prove that "Allah" existed prior to Muhammed's so called revelations. "Allah" is actually derived from "al-ilah"; a pre-Islamic and quite pagan moon god. "Allah" was then a god peculiar to the region of Arabia and was generally considered the highest amongst the Arabic pantheon of gods. All Muhammed really did was to eliminate the pantheon and keep his favourite "Allah" to form what I might call a pagan version of monotheism. Even the esteemed crescent moon used to represent the polytheistic moon god "Allah" has been retained to this day. A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia. It is amusing to note that Muhammed thought of the Christian Trinity as Allah, Jesus and His mother Mary - how wrong can a so called prophet be?

Here's a good read:-
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Secondly, in the Bible, Genesis 1 is all about denouncing the prevalent pagan sun and moon and star worship of that time. Instead of a pantheon of gods, there is a single Creator God and the celestial objects are relegated to being nothing more than objects spoken into existence by God. It is, amongst other things, a polemic against polytheism, paganism and just the kind of moon-god worship which Islam represents to this day. Genesis 1 would have been extraordinarily divergent from the common polytheism of the time - and quite confrontational about it too.

do not forget that the Ishmaelites are descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham.

[bahous]

The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

do not listen to the lies of those who bargain their books for pennies .

what write shows that you are disciples of Paul and not Jesus .

this Paul has traded truth for pennies . And he preached a gospel and a  Christ that were not preached by the holy Apostles of Jesus

Here is the proof:


Corintians 11/3-:”3 But I fear lest, as the serpent seduced Eve by his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted, and fall from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that

cometh preacheth another Christ, whom we have not preached; or if you receive another Spirit, whom you have not received; or another gospel which you have not

received; you might well bear with him.5 For I suppose that I have done nothing less than the great apostles."


it's clear that your false apostle were denouncing the great Apotles for preaching another christ and another Gospel

[bahous]

For onlookers, just imagine what kind of a world it would be, if everyone were Muslim and nobody felt any obligation to honor the oaths or vows that they took. This is why Middle East Muslim nations haven't developed beyond 7th century standards, since nobody can trust his neighbor to honor a contract.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

we were the first for more than twelve centuries.

Arab and Muslim civilization has taught you science, human rights , arts , cooking, and everything

when you are killing each other and live in total darkness . universities of Andalusia and that of Damascus Baghdad, Cordoba taught you tolerance , love of the human being respect science of any kind

[PeteWaldo]

The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

For starters, there's plenty of archaeological evidence to prove that "Allah" existed prior to Muhammed's so called revelations. "Allah" is actually derived from "al-ilah"; a pre-Islamic and quite pagan moon god. "Allah" was then a god peculiar to the region of Arabia and was generally considered the highest amongst the Arabic pantheon of gods. All Muhammed really did was to eliminate the pantheon and keep his favourite "Allah" to form what I might call a pagan version of monotheism. Even the esteemed crescent moon used to represent the polytheistic moon god "Allah" has been retained to this day. A corrupted form of Christian teaching was almost certainly involved and acted as the impetus for monotheistic thought in Arabia. It is amusing to note that Muhammed thought of the Christian Trinity as Allah, Jesus and His mother Mary - how wrong can a so called prophet be?

Here's a good read:-
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Secondly, in the Bible, Genesis 1 is all about denouncing the prevalent pagan sun and moon and star worship of that time. Instead of a pantheon of gods, there is a single Creator God and the celestial objects are relegated to being nothing more than objects spoken into existence by God. It is, amongst other things, a polemic against polytheism, paganism and just the kind of moon-god worship which Islam represents to this day. Genesis 1 would have been extraordinarily divergent from the common polytheism of the time - and quite confrontational about it too.

do not forget that the Ishmaelites are descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham.

Indeed they are! And therefore specifically cut out of God's covenants with the seed of Isaac.

Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. 10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac.11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son. 12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

The seed of Ishmael are the "children of the flesh". So it is no surprise that you prostrate yourselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol 5 times a day, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen do" as the scriptures refer to Salat, in the names of the Arabian pagan's deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad.
http://www.petewaldo.com/children_flesh.htm

You are even obligated to waste your money traveling to that black stone idol to march around it 7 times, just as the Arabian pagan's did before Muhammad was ever born. Indeed the pagans and Muslims marched around it shoulder to shoulder, up until the year prior to Muhammad's last Hajj, when he kicked the poor pagan's out of their own ritual.

Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689: Narrated Abu Huraira: In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'

Just imagine a bunch of naked pagan's and Muslims marching around the Kaaba!
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#tawaf

[PeteWaldo]

The problems arise because Muslims try to equate their pagan Arab god "Allah" with the one true God of the Bible, namely Yahweh. Clearly it's never going to work but Islamic efforts to shoe-horn "Allah" and Muhammed into the Bible persist even if they are patently ridiculous.

do not listen to the lies of those who bargain their books for pennies .

what write shows that you are disciples of Paul and not Jesus .

Even after being corrected, you repeat what are now bold faced lies, because you follow the father of lies himself through his "messenger".
And again, we follow all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of the one true God, including all of the disciples and apostles of the Gospel. You again single out Paul, even though you already admitted you also have to reject John, and of course you must reject all of the disciples, prophets and witnesses of the one true God, to follow the stand-alone false prophet Muhammad alone, through his self-contradicted and thus heavily abrogated, stand-alone 23-year 7th century record:

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
Mark 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
John 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. 24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

In short, Muhammad's antichrists must reject the one true God, to follow Satan, through his stand-alone "messenger" Muhammad alone.

Yet your "messenger" proclaims "Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein.", even after the Gospel had been copied tens of thousands of times and had been read all over the known world for centuries before Muhammad.
So how do you explain that bahous?
We both know why you have to keep running and hiding from the truth, don't we.

[PeteWaldo]

For onlookers, just imagine what kind of a world it would be, if everyone were Muslim and nobody felt any obligation to honor the oaths or vows that they took. This is why Middle East Muslim nations haven't developed beyond 7th century standards, since nobody can trust his neighbor to honor a contract.
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=950.0

we were the first for more than twelve centuries.

Muhammadans were certainly the first at spreading murder, mayhem and misery as practiced and commanded by Muhammad, just as orthodox Muhammadan murderers continue to engage in today.
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/muslim_persecution_of_christians.htm

But what does your post have to do with what you quoted, and your breaking the affirmation of the vow that you took when you joined the forum?
http://www.islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=35.msg5830#msg5830

Instead you dither on with foolish lies you have been trained to parrot. It was only after Muslims were civilized by societies they traveled to, outside of the illiterate pagan backwaters of Arabia, that they were able to achieve more than marching around, prostrating themselves toward, and venerating the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca.

The first Islamic Jihad brought murder, mayhem, slavery and misery to all of the civilized societies it attacked, until blessedly being beaten back in the Battle of Tours France, which marked the death-knell and beginning of the end of the First Islamic Jihad.

Six centuries before Mecca was ever settled, and eight centuries before Muhammad was ever born, marvels of engineering such as the Antikythera Mechanism had been invented a half a millennium before Muhammad's reprobates went on their murderous rampage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Arab and Muslim civilization has taught you science, human rights , arts , cooking, and everything

when you are killing each other and live in total darkness . universities of Andalusia and that of Damascus Baghdad, Cordoba taught you tolerance , love of the human being respect science of any kind

[PeteWaldo]

While we offer substantive responses to your posts, why do you suppose it is that you are left dumbstruck, and stuck dithering on in mindless repetition, instead of answering our simple questions?
Like whether you believe the Islamic State is driven by God or Satan.
And why Muhammad told the people of the Gospel to go by what is revealed therein, while you march around here demonizing all of the disciples as revealed therein.

Let's try another question that you may have an easier time with.
Why do you suppose it is that the penalty for "apostasy" or leaving Muhammad's death cult, is punishable by death, just like when someone leaves the Mafia?

Not only in the backwards 7th Arabian desert, but that barbarity and enslavement of Muslims by State statute in Islamic countries continues even during this 21st century, while most of the rest of the (non-communist) world live in organized civilized societies that protect the freedom, liberty and human rights such the right to self-determination, of all citizens?
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/death_penalty_apostasy.htm

Indeed outside of those being slaughtered by Muslims all around the world, nobody has more reason to be more "Islamophobic" that Muhammad's followers themselves!
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islamophobia_or_christian_love.htm

Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

[bahous]

Jesus states he is not the Messiah

 John 6"15 Jesus therefore, when he knew that they would come to take him by force, and make him king, fed again into the mountain himself alone."

[bahous]

Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

it is the Christians who are imperialists . and traveling thousands of kilometers to kill Muslims in Iraq , Syria, Afghanistan , Bosnia and support dictators and use them

[PeteWaldo]

Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

it is the Christians who are imperialists . and traveling thousands of kilometers to kill Muslims in Iraq , Syria, Afghanistan , Bosnia and support dictators and use them

Your cognitive function and capacity for critical thought is deeply compromised.
Please look at what you quoted and how preposterously unrelated your answer is.

I live in freedom and liberty with my God-given right to self-determination guaranteed not to be infringed, with freedom to worship as I choose in whatever religion I choose, as do others in western democracies (or representative Republics like in the U.S.).

Why don't you give us an idea as to what would happen to you if you, if you were to reject the death cult of Islam, to begin a life in the love of God, through a relationship with Christ Jesus?

[bahous]

Why do you suppose it is that Muhammad's followers have had to be prevented from leaving Islam, or face the death penalty, for the last 1400 years?
How can you not see the pure reprobate evil, of murder-threatened slavery, as being so conspicuously of Satan?

it is the Christians who are imperialists . and traveling thousands of kilometers to kill Muslims in Iraq , Syria, Afghanistan , Bosnia and support dictators and use them

Your cognitive function and capacity for critical thought is deeply compromised.
Please look at what you quoted and how preposterously unrelated your answer is.

I live in freedom and liberty with my God-given right to self-determination guaranteed not to be infringed, with freedom to worship as I choose in whatever religion I choose, as do others in western democracies (or representative Republics like in the U.S.).

Why don't you give us an idea as to what would happen to you if you, if you were to reject the death cult of Islam, to begin a life in Christ Jesus?

it is not surprise if you are from USA.

what you say living in christ jesus is from Paul and not from Jesus.

Paul was not an apotle. he was preachig another spirit and another Gospel

you are slil pagans. as your ancestors

I resume my faith like below:

1- Jesus was not crucified dear Waldo.

2-Jesus was not the Messiah he was Elias like i have already posted in my first post

3-Jésus was innocent of stating he was a God's son. this stating is blasphemous



I invite you to recognise the truth God and his Book

[PeteWaldo]

Jesus states he is not the Messiah

 John 6"15 Jesus therefore, when he knew that they would come to take him by force, and make him king, fed again into the mountain himself alone."

How many times bahous? We completely get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, which indicates you are not a Muslim, but instead follow a god of your own creation.

We get that you deny that Jesus is the Messiah, even though Muslims believe He is the Messiah, believe He was born of a virgin, believe He was born in Bethlehem, believe He is sinless, and believe he was lifted physically to heaven and has no earthly grave.

We get that you believe that a mass-murdering, little girl and prisoner raping, cutthroat thief, whose corpse still lies rotting in its shallow grave, is the Messiah.

You don't need to waste any more of our time repeating your unique blasphemy. Nor do you need to continue to jerk proof texted verses out of context, to further demonstrate you are as absolutely clueless and incapacitated, as Muhammad's illiterate 7th century followers. We get it.

Why don't you put on your big boy pants now, and go back and respond to the questions I asked, that you chose to run and hide from?