The Gospel VS the Black Stone (split off "Jesus on Adultery" - title by Peter)

[Mujaheed]

I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING

I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
 LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.

FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.

PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.

Of course I wouldn't do it at the Kaaba or another riot would likely ensue, and another 402 "pilgrims" might be killed and another 649 of Mohammed's satan-filled madcap followers wounded - by each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Mecca_Massacre#Demonstrations

I'm a part time farmer as well as other business that takes me outdoors. Sometimes my activities take me to places where toilets are not readily available. Peeing outdoors isn't unusual for men that get outdoors - even a little. Sometimes when I am outdoors I pee on rocks or gravel. Maybe you were raised to be like a girl.

So why don't you stop avoiding the subject, pretending my point was in regard to etiquette at the pagan's Kaaba. Perhaps rephrasing the question, to avoid another child-like exegesis of my point, will help put you back on track.

If I were outdoors, and out of everyone's sight, and I had to pee, and the Quraish black stone idol were right there on the ground in front of me, and I knew it was the Quraish black stone idol, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish black stone idol any more than I would any other stone that was in front of me.

How about you?

AGAIN ARE YOU JUST SO USED TO BEING ABSURD THAT ALL DECENCY ESCAPES YOU?

WOULD PEE ON MAN MADE IMAGE (A PICTURE) OF JESUS (WE KNOW ITS A SKETCH AND A PIECE OF PAPER AND NOT REALLY JESUS)

The reason you refuse to answer the question is because you know you lied about Mohammed's followers reverence for the Quraish black stone idol.
So for the benefit of those Muslim read-only participants spectating your nonsense, and seeking the truth, let's exegete the term "venerate".

Venerate
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference

The picture of the poor satanically consumed, Quraish black stone idol kisser below, belies Mujaheed's foolish declarations quoted above. The poor fellow in the photo spent a pile of money traveling to Mecca (that could have otherwise fed poor people, like those that Muslims are murdering in Africa), in order to march around the kaaba 7 times, just as the pagan moon god worshipers did before Mohammed, back when Mohammed's occult practicing uncle ran the show.

2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) ..............

The term "relic" perfectly describes the Quraish black stone idol.

with a ritual act ......

It would the height of ignorance, for any Muslim to deny they participate in a ritual act, since it is the 5th pillar of Islam. The Hajj is obligatory for Muslims.
Even Roman Catholics aren't REQUIRED to venerate their objects.

Muslims are required to participate in the same ritual act of circumambulation of the Kaaba, that Mohammed adopted, and then adapted to Islam, to keep the pagans in his game.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#tawaf

The same pagan Arabian jinn-demon worshiping ritual act of the Sa'ee as well - that is, running back and forth between Safa and Marwah 7 times.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

....... of devotion

And just as you yourself said Mohammed's followers kiss the stone because Mohammed did.
Purely as a display of devotion to the false prophet Mohammed.

You're not fooling anybody here, my friend.

You forgot to mention that the act is insignificant and does not have any impact on belief at all, it is a ritual, that is not obligatory on anyone NOT FARD

I HAVE NOT TRIED TO FOOL ANYONE I MERELY WANTED EVERYONE TO WITNESS:
 HOW PETTY YOU ARE (GOING ON AND ON ABOUT A STONE THAT is by all accounts a tradition.
HOW RUDE YOU ARE TOWARDS OTHERS (you would pee on a relic)
HOW FAR YOU HAVE STRAYED FROM THE RELIGION OF JESUS with your vileness
HOW YOU CARRY ON WITH A WORD LIKE VENERATE, WHEN CLEARLY THAT IS NOT THE ATTITUDE OF MUSLIMS (THE COMPANIONS ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE DO IT BECAUSE THE PROPHET DID IT (NO VENERATION THERE IS THERE?)

SOME WISDOM YOU CAN UNDERSTAND AND SOME TAKES BELIEF.

I CANNOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND WHY PETER, IN POST AFTER POST, WOULD CARRY ON ABOUT SUBJECTS THAT MUSLIMS DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND, ONLY GOD KNOWS. AND THE MAKKAH ARCHEOLOGY ISSUE< AGAIN FLOGGING A DEAD HORSE, WHO CARES IF THE IS OR ISNT PROOF FOR MAKKAH? IF I WERE TO LOOK FOR ARCHEOLOGICAL PROOF I WOULD FIND THAT THE SMERIANS SAY WE CAME FROME ALIENS, AND THAT ONLY THE ALIENS COULD HAVE BUIL:T THE PYRAMIDS. IT IS A WASTE OF TIME AND IT HAS NO SIGNICANCE IN THE RELIGION.
SO YOU PROVE MAKKAH DID NOT EXIST, HOW ARE YOU YOU GOING TO THAT? WAS IT BURIED BENEATH THE OCEAN? DID IT ENERGE AFTER A VOLCANO, HOW OLD IS THE VALLEY AND CAN I HAVE ALL THE RECORDS FROM THE SUADI EXCAVATIONS AND INSPECT IT FOR MYSELF? WHAT ABOUT THE FLOODS IN MAKKAH,

IT IS A VALLEY THAT HAS RECURRING FLOODS, IT IS WASHED CLEAN EVER SO OFTEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME

GOOGLE THE YOU TUBE VIDEOS ON THE FLLODS TO SE THE SEVERITY

AGAIN, THANK YOU PETER FOR THE PIC OF THE FLOODED KA"BA reminded me to tell you that ALLAH KEEPS HIS OWN HOUSE CLEAN.


HOW

[Peter]

You forgot to mention that the act is insignificant and does not have any impact on belief at all, it is a ritual, that is not obligatory on anyone NOT FARD

Interesting characterization of the 5th pillar of Islam.
You and I both know what would happen if you shouted that on the streets of Mecca!

WHO CARES IF THE IS OR ISNT PROOF FOR MAKKAH?

You don't, but every Muslim should, since it demonstrates that all the 7th and 8th century created Mohammedan fiction, about Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael ever having been in a non-existent city, is pure poppycock.
It means that the city that Mohammedans bow toward 5 times a day, and travel to, is nothing more than a 7th and 8th century created fictional farce.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/
It means that Islamic rituals are nothing more than thinly repackaged pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship, just as some of Mohammed's own followers observed in his day.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
And as clearly evidence by this thread. And I would like to thank you for your participation.

[Peter]

WHAT ABOUT THE FLOODS IN MAKKAH,

IT IS A VALLEY THAT HAS RECURRING FLOODS, IT IS WASHED CLEAN EVER SO OFTEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME

GOOGLE THE YOU TUBE VIDEOS ON THE FLLODS TO SE THE SEVERITY

AGAIN, THANK YOU PETER FOR THE PIC OF THE FLOODED KA"BA reminded me to tell you that ALLAH KEEPS HIS OWN HOUSE CLEAN.

Our dear Mohammedan friend, you have made it almost impossible to do other than muster a good hearty guffaw! Just look what Satan made you declare. In your desperation to defend the Quraish's pagan Kaaba you turned yourself into a spectacle!

So let's get this straight. First Mohammed's "Allah" builds his sacred kaaba on a flood plain, and then he "cleans" it with flood water, contaminated with human sewage. Did you ever smell a building after it was inundated with floodwater?

To Muslims that can see the obvious truth, do we need to wonder why the one true God, had His people build His temple on Mount Moriah?
In Jerusalem - in THE Holy Land -1200 kilometers away, from where the Quraish pagan kaaba was eventually constructed in the early 5th century AD, for moon, sun and star worship?
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

[Mujaheed]

You forgot to mention that the act is insignificant and does not have any impact on belief at all, it is a ritual, that is not obligatory on anyone NOT FARD

Interesting characterization of the 5th pillar of Islam.
You and I both know what would happen if you shouted that on the streets of Mecca!

WHO CARES IF THE IS OR ISNT PROOF FOR MAKKAH?

You don't, but every Muslim should, since it demonstrates that all the 7th and 8th century created Mohammedan fiction,
about Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael ever having been in a non-existent city, is pure poppycock.
It means that the city that Mohammedans bow toward 5 times a day, and travel to, is nothing more than a 7th and 8th century created fictional farce.
http://www.historyofmecca.com/
It means that Islamic rituals are nothing more than thinly repackaged pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship, just as some of Mohammed's own followers observed in his day.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
And as clearly evidence by this thread. And I would like to thank you for your participation.

NO PETER THIS IS MERELY YOUR SARCASTIC OPINION AND HAS NO BASIS IN THE TRUTH, YOUR WISHFUL THINKING
I WAS NOT REFERRING TO HAJJ AS AN INSIGNIFICANT ACT BUT THE KISSING OF THE BLACK STONE, PEOPLE KISS THE BLACK STONE WHEN THEY CAN, IT IS NOT REQUIRED OF ANYONE TO DO SO AND DOES NOT IMPACT ON BELIEF AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BELIEF IN GOD!!!

NOTHING IS REPACKAGED, THE PROPHETS HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME MODUS OPERANDI, PEOPLE GO ASTRAY, NEGLECT THEIR BELIEF IN GOD AND WORSHIP IDOLS AND HUMANS AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS, POLITICAL SYSTEMS AND IDEOLOGIES INSTED OF THE GOD (ALLAH) AND ALLAH IN HIS INFINITE MERCY AND WISDOM SENDS A PROPHET, TO THEM TO DELIVER THE TRUE MESSAGE FROM GOD, SOME ARE WARNERS, SOME A LAW GIVERS AND ONE IS THE MESSIAH, ONE IS THE FINAL PROPHET AND MESSENGER MUHAMMAD.

[Peter]

I WAS NOT REFERRING TO HAJJ AS AN INSIGNIFICANT ACT BUT THE KISSING OF THE BLACK STONE, PEOPLE KISS THE BLACK STONE WHEN THEY CAN, IT IS NOT REQUIRED OF ANYONE TO DO SO AND DOES NOT IMPACT ON BELIEF AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BELIEF IN GOD!!!

But the subject was VENERATION of the black stone, not kissing it. Sometimes it is too crowded to kiss the stone.
But being required to point to it on each time around it, is intended to demonstrate the same reverential respect for Mohammed's kissing of the Quraish black stone idol.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8066#msg8066
We both did a thorough job of presenting our cases. Again thank you for your participation as I have no doubt that our chat will help many of Mohammed's followers see, and thereby overcome, Mohammed's repackaged Quraish paganism.

.... PEOPLE GO ASTRAY....

Indeed. That's why the world is warned.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

But Mohammed even came as a ravening wolf - without the sheep's clothing.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

[Mujaheed]

I WAS NOT REFERRING TO HAJJ AS AN INSIGNIFICANT ACT BUT THE KISSING OF THE BLACK STONE, PEOPLE KISS THE BLACK STONE WHEN THEY CAN, IT IS NOT REQUIRED OF ANYONE TO DO SO AND DOES NOT IMPACT ON BELIEF AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BELIEF IN GOD!!!

But the subject was VENERATION of the black stone, not kissing it. Sometimes it is too crowded to kiss the stone.
But being required to point to it on each time around it, is intended to demonstrate the same reverential respect for Mohammed's kissing of the Quraish black stone idol.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8066#msg8066
We both did a thorough job of presenting our cases. Again thank you for your participation as I have no doubt that our chat will help many of Mohammed's followers see, and thereby overcome, Mohammed's repackaged Quraish paganism.

REALLY, the more you post the more people are becoming Muslim, due to the profound lack of knowledge you have of basic principles of Belief in GOD. YOUR LIES AND UNFOUNDED REMARKS are just what the readers need to pick up a book and start reading up on Islam and ABOUT 70 000 to 80000 Americans walk into MASJIDS IN AMERICA AND BECOME MUSLIM, due to reading up on whether islam is such a terrible religion, MOST FIND THAT IT IS COMPLETELY MISCONSTRUED BY MAILY IGNORANT BIASED BIGOTS

.... PEOPLE GO ASTRAY....

Indeed. That's why the world is warned.

YOU MEAN THAT IS WHY GOD WARNED THE WORLD, PEOPLE MAKING UP THERE OWN PROPHESIES LIKE ELLIS SKOLLFIELD< SPEAKING ILL OF MEN OF GOD< SLANDERING ENTIRE NATIONS THAT HOUSE ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE< BUT HIS LIMITED INTELLECTUAL ABILITY TO GRASP SCRIPTURE HAS MADE HIM A SELF STYLED PROPHET
 SHEEP IN WOLVES CLOTHES 9HE DOES NOT STATE HE IS A PROPHET BUT TRIES TO WRITE AND ACT LIKE ONE)

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

ELLIS SKOLLFIELD< THE END TIME< MARK OF THE BEAST PROPHECIES? WHAT ARE THEY SLANDER OF ENTIRE NATIONS?

But Mohammed even came as a ravening wolf - without the sheep's clothing.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=53.0

THAT IS RIGHT, NO Pretense, no trying to please pagan worshippers, stating the truth directly even if the whole world was against him.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where THE BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

SO THE WAGES OF SIN IS ETERNAL LIFE? tormented forever? oh and ever, just a reiteration of eternal life. ELLIS SKOLLFIELD IS ACCUSING A MAN THAT BELIEVES IN THE GOD (AL IELAAH) BELIEVES IN THE M<ESSIAH AND THE SECOND COMING, AND ALL THE PROPHETS OF GOD AS BEING A FALSE PROPHET ! UNDER WAT AUTHORITY HIS OPINION borne out of years and years of misguided ignorance? tell him its not too late to repent.
 DID YOU NOT SAY THAT THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH?

MAKE UP YOUR MIND< DIFFICULT TO KEEP TRACK OF ALL YOUR LIES ISNT IT?

[Peter]

THAT IS RIGHT, NO Pretense, no trying to please pagan worshippers, stating the truth directly even if the whole world was against him.

As obviously evidenced by your bowing toward the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day.

[Mujaheed]

THAT IS RIGHT, NO Pretense, no trying to please pagan worshippers, stating the truth directly even if the whole world was against him.

As obviously evidenced by your bowing toward the Quraish's black stone idol 5 times a day.

FOR YOUR BENEFIT ONE MORE TIME: MY DECLARATION OF FAITH

THERE IS NO GOD WORTHY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT THE GOD (AL THE IELAAH_GOD
ALLAH is the creator and the sustainer of the universe, the lord of ADAM, Enoch, Noah, Moses, David Solomon, Jesus and Muhammad (may allah bestow peace on them all and the lord of the entire universe and the heavens

I BOW DOWN TO NONE BUT THE CREATOR AND SUSTAINER AND LORD OF THE WORLDS< THE LORD OF THE PROPHETS AND THE DAY OF JUDGMENT,

Clear enough for you, the Quraish black stone Idol has nothing to do with my bowing in the direction of the ka'aba (not towards, not for not to the ka'ba) I am trying to get it into your ,,,,,, head that your opinions are completely of the mark where muslims are concerned, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY OFF THE MARK AND THEN A FEW KILOMETERS SOUTH OF THAT WAY OFF MARK.

[Peter]

I BOW DOWN TO NONE BUT THE CREATOR .....

You have only been deceived into believing you do.
YHWH doesn't inhabit a pagan Arabian black box in Mecca that is "washed" with sewage.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

[Mujaheed]

I BOW DOWN TO NONE BUT THE CREATOR .....

You have only been deceived into believing you do.
YHWH doesn't inhabit a pagan Arabian black box in Mecca that is "washed" with sewage.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076
http://www.historyofmecca.com/resources.htm

SO WHAT YOU SAYING IS YA HUWA (translation is OH HE) ( YA RAb -Oh Lord) (Ya ALLAH- OH THE GOD))Did you even take the time to learn aramaic??


SO GOD IS NOT EVERYWHERE ACCORDING TO YOUR BIASED DIMWITTED NARROW MINDED KNOWLEDGE, GOD IS ONLY WHERE YOU SAY HE IS

AGAIN PROVING THE VERSES OF THE QURAN IS TRUE ABOUT CHRISTIANS< THEY SAY THINGS FROM THEIRE OWN MOUTHS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE>

[Peter]

SO GOD IS NOT EVERYWHERE ACCORDING TO YOUR BIASED DIMWITTED NARROW MINDED KNOWLEDGE, GOD IS ONLY WHERE YOU SAY HE IS

Since God is omnipresent, God's people don't need to point to the Quraish's moon god worshiping kaaba - or anywhere else - for God to hear our prayers. So you actually did a good job of self-description.
It is satan that still resides with those that bow to the Quraish moon god idol embedded in the black box. Just as he was with those that bowed to a golden calf.

[Mujaheed]

Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?

The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

Scared into copying the pagan Arabians, despite the absence of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that the kaaba ever existed, before pagan Yemeni immigrants built it in the early 5th century for moon, sun, star and jinn-demon worship. And all the while not even seeming to notice, that you do that 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land, around a sewage washed pagan black box.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8076#msg8076

NOTHING BUT CONJECTURE, WHAT YOU STATE IS A COMPLETE FALLACY why don't you bring us the evidence and we can go through it line by line, not speculation, has anyone inspected MAKKAH?

DONT FORGET NOT A SINGLE SHRED EVIDENCE (Archeological or Historical) Exists for JESUS out side the Christian church.

YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!

HERE START BY TELLING what's wrong in these verses
he Arabic text with transliteration and translation in English is as follows: [Qur'an 1:1].

1:1 بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمـَنِ الرَّحِيم

Bismillāhi r-raḥmāni r-raḥīm
In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
1:2 الْحَمْدُ للّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِين

Al ḥamdu lillāhi rabbi l-'ālamīn
All Praise and thanks belongs to Allah, The Lord of the alamin(refers to the world, all creations, and all that exists)
1:3 الرَّحمـنِ الرَّحِيم

Ar raḥmāni r-raḥīm
The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
1:4 مَـالِكِ يَوْمِ الدِّين

Māliki yawmi d-dīn
Master of the Day of Judgement
1:5 إِيَّاك نَعْبُدُ وإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِين

Iyyāka na'budu wa iyyāka nasta'īn
you alone we worship and you alone we ask for help.
1:6 اهدِنَــــا الصِّرَاطَ المُستَقِيمَ

Ihdinā ṣ-ṣirāṭ al-mustaqīm
Guide us to the straight way,
1:7 صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنعَمتَ عَلَيهِمْ غَيرِ المَغضُوبِ عَلَيهِمْ وَلاَ الضَّالِّين

Ṣirāṭ al-laḏīna an'amta 'alayhim ġayril maġḍūbi 'alayhim walāḍ ḍāllīn
The way of those on whom you bestowed your grace upon ; Not of those who earned your anger ,nor of those who went astray. Amin.

[Peter]

Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?

The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!

Let's start with your non-specific accusation, then later we will cover the history and archaeology of Jesus, and your requested subject of the archaeology of Mecca, to split off into it's own thread.

1. Do Muslims bow toward the same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at?
2. Do Muslims fly to Mecca to circumambulate the kaaba and the black stone, that pagan Arabian moon god worshipers traveled to and circumambulated?
3. Do Muslims run back and forth between Al Safa and Al Marwah like the pagan Arabians did?

Yes or no - on each count
Don't think you will get away with changing the subject or posting a blizzard of dung or it will go straight to spam. Just answer the questions.

[Mujaheed]

Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?

The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!

Let's start with your non-specific accusation, then later we will cover the history and archaeology of Jesus, and your requested subject of the archaeology of Mecca, to split off into it's own thread.

1. Do Muslims bow toward the same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at?
2. Do Muslims fly to Mecca to circumambulate the kaaba and the black stone, that pagan Arabian moon god worshipers traveled to and circumambulated?
3. Do Muslims run back and forth between Al Safa and Al Marwah like the pagan Arabians did?

Yes or no - on each count
Don't think you will get away with changing the subject or posting a blizzard of dung or it will go straight to spam. Just answer the questions.

1, YES , proving that Muhammad did not invent anything new he came to correct who to worship JUST LIKE JESUS
2, Yes, again proof that Muhammad came to correct who to worship, WE DO IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOD  OF JESUS
3 NO, WE DO IT LIKE HAGAR THE MOTHER OF ISMAIL DID WHEN SHE LOOKED FOR WATER.

[Peter]

#3 point split off to it's own thread titled "Hagar, Mecca, and the Umrah - Al-Safa and Al-Marwah"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1952.0

[Peter]

Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?

The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!

Let's start with your non-specific accusation, then later we will cover the history and archaeology of Jesus, and your requested subject of the archaeology of Mecca, to split off into it's own thread.

1. Do Muslims bow toward the same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at?
2. Do Muslims fly to Mecca to circumambulate the kaaba and the black stone, that pagan Arabian moon god worshipers traveled to and circumambulated?
3. Do Muslims run back and forth between Al Safa and Al Marwah like the pagan Arabians did?

Yes or no - on each count
Don't think you will get away with changing the subject or posting a blizzard of dung or it will go straight to spam. Just answer the questions.

1, YES , proving that Muhammad did not invent anything new he came to correct who to worship JUST LIKE JESUS
2, Yes, again proof that Muhammad came to correct who to worship, WE DO IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOD  OF JESUS

Regarding point #1 and #2, perhaps you can tell us where a tradition of traveling to Mecca - 1000 kilometers across harsh Arabian desert from the Holy Land, and circumambulating the kaaba 7 times, and kissing or pointing to the Quraish's black stone idol each time around - comes from other than the Arabian pagans who were engaged in that tradition before Mohammed.

[Mujaheed]

Sigh. Again, why do you suppose that about 1 out of every 9 verses in Mohammed's "revelations" regard consequences?

The answer is so Satan could scare you into rejecting YHWH to follow Mohammed. To scare you into bowing toward the very same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at. Mohammed's followers even today, squandering money that could otherwise feed the poor, on flying to Mecca and venerating the Quraish's black stone idol, by circumambulating the kaaba just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did. Running back and forth between Safa and Marwah like the Arabian jinn-demon worshipers did.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

YOU REPEAT YOUR LIES SO EASILY WITHOUT AN PROOF WAHTSOVER, WITHOUT CITING A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE QURAN!!!!

Let's start with your non-specific accusation, then later we will cover the history and archaeology of Jesus, and your requested subject of the archaeology of Mecca, to split off into it's own thread.

1. Do Muslims bow toward the same black box that the pagan Arabians worshiped at?
2. Do Muslims fly to Mecca to circumambulate the kaaba and the black stone, that pagan Arabian moon god worshipers traveled to and circumambulated?
3. Do Muslims run back and forth between Al Safa and Al Marwah like the pagan Arabians did?

Yes or no - on each count
Don't think you will get away with changing the subject or posting a blizzard of dung or it will go straight to spam. Just answer the questions.

1, YES , proving that Muhammad did not invent anything new he came to correct who to worship JUST LIKE JESUS
2, Yes, again proof that Muhammad came to correct who to worship, WE DO IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOD  OF JESUS

Regarding point #1 and #2, perhaps you can tell us where a tradition of traveling to Mecca - 1000 kilometers across harsh Arabian desert from the Holy Land, and circumambulating the kaaba 7 times, and kissing or pointing to the Quraish's black stone idol each time around - comes from other than the Arabian pagans who were engaged in that tradition before Mohammed.

WHERE IT COMES FROM IS IRRELEVANT JUST LIKE THE CONCEPT OF A MESSIAH is occurring in previous pagan religions is irrelevant and the concept of God manifesting in the flesh like the HINDUS worshipped in the same manner, what is important is that you worship GOD as GOD wants you to as shown by all the Prophets of GOD.

I will not take the word of historians and Geographers and words according to but not by from Men that are neither Godfearing nor are they 100% certain of any of their facts other than broad outlines.

THE ACTIONS COME FROM MUHAMMAD, who did it before is completely irrelavent, just like people who say they believe but say that the commands of God does not have to be followed when the Prophets clearly tell you to follow the law.

JUST LIKE THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES DID IN THE TIME OF JESUS DID>

[Peter]

WHERE IT COMES FROM IS IRRELEVANT JUST LIKE THE CONCEPT OF A MESSIAH is occurring in previous pagan religions is irrelevant and the concept of God manifesting in the flesh like the HINDUS worshipped in the same manner, ......

Then why have you previously repeatedly invoked a few similarities as though they somehow repudiated Christianity?

However it isn't the same thing at all. There are elements that are similar. The difference is that Muslims bow to the very same black stone idol, at the very same kaaba, in the very same town, that pagans built expressly for that purpose.

..... what is important is that you worship GOD as GOD wants you to as shown by all the Prophets of GOD.

I will not take the word of historians and Geographers and words according to but not by from Men that are neither Godfearing nor are they 100% certain of any of their facts other than broad outlines.

Instead you take the word of a murdering, prisoner raping 7th century thief, who even cut himself in for 1/5 of the property stolen from others, just like a Mafia Don.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=608.0

THE ACTIONS COME FROM MUHAMMAD, .....

EXACTLY! Leaving the last of the 360 idols in the kaaba, and adopting and adapting pagan rituals, to help keep the pagans in the game. The very same Quraish's black stone idol that you bow to 5 times a day. Is that what Abraham did? Kept a black stone idol to bow to 5 times a day? Is that what YHWH teaches to do through His 1600 year record?

[Peter]

...... who did it before is completely irrelavent, just like people who say they believe but say that the commands of God does not have to be followed when the Prophets clearly tell you to follow the law.

But by your own admission you reject YHWH's/Yeshua's law to follow Mohammed's law.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1955.0

JUST LIKE THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES DID IN THE TIME OF JESUS DID>

Specifically for being slave to their traditions, and thereby being blinded to the word of God, almost as badly as you are. However at least the traditions Jesus criticized the Jews of engaging in weren't recycled pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-demon traditions like the Mohammedans.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1952.0

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

1. Where does the Word of God detail the Mohammedan tradition of bowing to the Quraish's black stone idol in Mecca 5 times a day?
2. Where does scripture indicate that the Jews abandoned their temple in Jerusalem, to travel 1200 kilometers across harsh barren Arabian desert to Mecca, to circumambulate the Quraish's black stone idol at the Quraish's Kaaba?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1236.0
Direct answers please.

[Peter]

The following was taken from a thread, unrelated to the following topic that Mujaheed brought up, so I quoted it, replied to it, and moved it to this related thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1911.msg8469#msg8469

The prophet Muhammad is not a liar, ....

Related threads
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=952.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=351.0

.... nor did he retain a pagan idol, .......

The only way you could make this statement is if you had evidence that Mohammed brought a brand new black stone to the Kaaba. But you and I both know that the black stone in the Kaaba today, is the very same black stone that was accompanied by 359 other idols, in the very same Kaaba, that Mohammed's pagan tribe the Quraish circumambulated, as Monhammed's followers circumambulate it today.

........ nor did he instruct .......

A good example of the transparent taqiyyah (dissimulation) that some Muslims try to deny they engage in.
We all know that whether Mohammed instructed it or not is irrelevant.
Muslims do what Mohammed did, whether venerating the black stone, or fighting the unbelievers. Specifically Mohammed kissed the Quraish's black stone idol. As a result Muslims today are required to kiss the Quraish's black stone idol, or at least point to it on each of 7 passes they take around the Kaaba. Circumambulating the Kaaba and it's black stone just as the pagans did before Mohammed.

....... reverence ......

Changing the descriptive term from venerate to revere doesn't change the facts. Again, you seem to think that somehow just because you are willing to make a false and contradictory claim, that you should expect others to believe you.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg8066#msg8066

re·vere 1  (r-vîr)
tr.v. re·vered, re·ver·ing, re·veres
To regard with awe, deference, and devotion.

The FACT is Mohammed's followers being compelled to travel half way around the world, to march around the Quraish's black stone idol 7 times as the pagans before Mohammed did, pointing to it on each time around, is a perfect example of the term. Come on, read the definition and just look at this guy again. You aren't fooling anybody.

....... for the black stone nor do we worship like the kafir (DISBELIEVERS) it is your own lack of understanding that leads you to these assumptions based on deviant scholars as I have proven over and over and over again.

I am not differing with the Book only where the book contradicts itself and I understand it to be scholars writing in there time for there time according to limited knowledge they had and subsequent translators interpreting the Bookaccording to their beliefs.

Tell us. Where does "the book" instruct folks to travel 1200 kilometers across desperate desert from the temple in Jerusalem, to a town that was settled in the 4th century AD, to engage in veneration of the Quraish's black stone idol?

[Peter]

On the following links are three more Muslims that also seem to believe, that just because they say they don't venerate the Quraish's black stone idol, that somehow means they don't venerate that black stone. Even as the 5th pillar of Islam compels them to travel to it, and circumambulate it, as the pagan idol worshipers did before Mohammed.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.15
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.msg5931#msg5931

Even Roman Catholics aren't required to venerate their objects.

[Mujaheed]

On the following links are three more Muslims that also seem to believe, that just because they say they don't venerate the Quraish's black stone idol, that somehow means they don't venerate that black stone. Even as the 5th pillar of Islam compels them to travel to it, and circumambulate it, as the pagan idol worshipers did before Mohammed.

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.15
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1079.msg5931#msg5931

Even Roman Catholics aren't required to venerate their objects.

I realise that I am speaking to one that has no faith (MUSHRIHKEEN), and argues like the KAAFIR QURAISH did in the time of the Prophet Muhammad. The were adamant about sticking to the thousands of years of tradition just like the Tribes of Judah did in the time of Jesus. Stubborn and deaf, dumb and blind to the truth due to sticking to a tradition borne out of false doctrines and clear pagan beliefs.

If you going to stick with pagan beliefs (MUSHRIHKEEN are those who ascribes partners to ALLAH) then all our discussions are futile and on such a low level that it becomes impossible to engage in a discussion.

I tell what I believe, you invent a contradictory statement in order to tell me what I believe, the notion is beyond absurd.

[Peter]

You are not finished with the thread you need to stick to as part of the terms of your return. Nor did you answer them in order. Please return to that thread now.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8551#msg8551

[Peter]

Black Stone Veneration at the Kaaba in Mecca
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2444.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGyWs__Y-rU

[Peter]

A point I don't think I have made yet.
It would seem that Yahweh even arranged to have the Quraish pagan's black stone idol smashed to pieces, just as he arranged to have Abraham smash his father's idols to pieces, yet Muhammad's followers simply picked up the pieces, stuck them on a background, and marched ahead continuing to venerate it.