The Gospel VS the Black Stone (split off "Jesus on Adultery" - title by Peter)

[Peter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4PMvVKrb_Y

[edit note - 11-8 the following thread split from following link on thread "Jesus on Adultery" (and retitled) http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1906.msg7980#msg7980 ]

..... ISLAM IS NOT CONTRADICTING JESUS< .......

Mohammed WAS and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0

...... THE ACCOUNTS GIVEN BY SCRIBES AND PHARISEES YEARS AFTER THE FACT CAN BE UNDRSTOOD AS RELIGIUS FEVOUR .......

My friend, religious fervor is that which is described by Mohammed's followers practices of bowing toward and venerating a black stone in a big black box just the way the pagan moon god worshipers before Mohammed did - that is to say blindly engaging in recycled Arabian pagan rituals - because Mohammed's followers have been indoctrinated to believe a demonstrably fictional 7th and 8th century created history. Their religious fervor even frenzying into a riot in 1987 resulting in the deaths of 402 and wounding of 649 "pilgrims". Mohammedan blind "faith" (obedience to Satan) comprising the very definition of the religious fervor of a cult.

....... BORNE OUT OF INTENSE LOVE AND MISGUIDED BY SATAN AS THEY SHOULD BE WORSHIPPING GOD ALONE>

Mark 12:29 ... The Lord our God is one Lord: ... 32 ... for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=108.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=571.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0

[Mujaheed]

Mark 12:29 ... The Lord our God is one Lord: ... 32 ... for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=40.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=108.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=571.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=174.0
[/quote]

Here is the advice of the Quran

005.011 O ye who believe! Call in remembrance the favour of God unto you when certain men formed the design to stretch out their hands against you, but (God) held back their hands from you: so fear God. And on God let believers put (all) their trust.

005.012 God did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And God said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my apostles, honour and assist them, and loan to God a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path of rectitude."

005.013 But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and for get a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for God loveth those who are kind.

005.014 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will God show them what it is they have done.

005.015 O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Apostle, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from God a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,-

005.016 Wherewith God guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His Will, unto the light,- guideth them to a Path that is Straight.

005.017 In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against God, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to God belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For God hath power over all things."

005.018 (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of God, and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to God belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

005.019 O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Apostle, after the break in (the series of) our apostles, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)": But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And God hath power over all things.

[Peter]

If you would quit removing the first
[ quote author=Peter link=topic=877.msg7983#msg7983 date=1287760141]
tag on my posts that you quote, your posts would come out right.
If you copy that tag and go back and paste it at the top of your failed posts (removing the space from between the first bracket and the q) it will fix them.

Regarding copy and pasting random passages from Mohammed's satanic antichrist rantings please see....
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7988#msg7988
You are quoting the very poorly recalled bits and pieces from scripture (that were included along with bits and pieces of Arabic and Hebrew fables), that Mohammed heard from those like Jabr and Tubb'a and his tri-lingual Jewish secretary.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0
Here's some funny stuff
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=776.0

Now why don't you instead explain your veneration of the black stone that you bow to, and the Kaaba that you march around, just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did that Mohammed got it from. What distinguished the black stone from the other 359 idols that adorned the Kaaba?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0
The answer is, of course, that it represented the moon god which the pagans considered to be their most powerful deity. That's why Mohammed favored it, and concocted his new story about it, so he could appease the pagans.
What's the story you were indoctrinated to believe?

Indeed Mohammed's followers performed Hajj shoulder to shoulder with the pagans, up until the year before Mohammed's last Hajj, when the pagans got kicked out of their own ritual!

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

[Mujaheed]

If you would quit removing the first
[ quote author=Peter link=topic=877.msg7983#msg7983 date=1287760141]
tag on my posts that you quote, your posts would come out right.
If you copy that tag and go back and paste it at the top of your failed posts (removing the space from between the first bracket and the q) it will fix them.

Regarding copy and pasting random passages from Mohammed's satanic antichrist rantings please see....
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1899.msg7988#msg7988
You are quoting the very poorly recalled bits and pieces from scripture (that were included along with bits and pieces of Arabic and Hebrew fables), that Mohammed heard from those like Jabr and Tubb'a and his tri-lingual Jewish secretary.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0
Here's some funny stuff
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=776.0

Now why don't you instead explain your veneration of the black stone that you bow to, and the Kaaba that you march around, just like the pagan Arabian moon god worshipers did that Mohammed got it from. What distinguished the black stone from the other 359 idols that adorned the Kaaba?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.0
The answer is, of course, that it represented the moon god which the pagans considered to be their most powerful deity. That's why Mohammed favored it, and concocted his new story about it, so he could appease the pagans.
What's the story you were indoctrinated to believe?

Indeed Mohammed's followers performed Hajj shoulder to shoulder with the pagans, up until the year before Mohammed's last Hajj, when the pagans got kicked out of their own ritual!

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

My dear Peter again your obstinate ignorabce persists, nota single statement of truth from the bible from you, only your conjecture and opinion, it feels as if I am dealing with a rebellious teenager. Everything I say you turn into spmething ugly or ignore the truth completely. You persist with your moon gOD drivel nonesense when the Quran clearly states that Muslims are oredered to worship like all the prophets that came before not pagan worship of the greeks and the romans (latin and greek transloators would naturally interpret the Scripture according their understanding and in relation to the prevalent beliefs at that time that was family of Gods.

It would suit an arrogant person to believe such deviations

The fact that ALLAH has sent Jesus means that the Jews had corrupted Scripture to suit themselves and it naturally follows that the Old testament stories has somewhat been changed as time went by, there is no archeological evidence for the validity of the Stories, they found evidence that there was a house of David and it suits one to conclude that the rest of the story of the house of David must be true. That is like finding a Mayan gold carving of an alien race flying in a spaceship and concluding that we come from aliens or that aliens visited the planet or that we are the aliens, it is conjecture and opinions at best. Your entire interpretation of Jesus is based on such conjecture and assumptions attributing words that are written to personal interpretation, you are not reading the BIBLE you are writing doctrines like the arrogant Emperor Constantine and Augustine and Constantinople and the various Bishops and Arch Bishops of ROME AND JERUSALEM during the 3rd and 4th centuries. Your view are their views and it continues with ELLIS SKOLLFIELD AND RAFAT AMARI GIVING THEIR VIEWS LIKE SATAN DOES< THEIR LIMITED INTELLECT IS A HINDERANCE TO SPRITUAL PRGRESS< TRUTH IS NOT BASED ON YOU ABILITY OF ANALYSES THE WORD OF GOD< IT IS BASED ON YOUR OBEDIENCE TO THE TEACHINGS< ADVICE< PROHIBITIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS OF ALLAH (AL-THE-IELAAH-GOD)

Your entire interpretation of Islam is also based on such misguided analyses, Muhammad was given the truth, and if you took the time and trouble to find the truth you find that it is easier to conceal the truth within a mixture of truth and falsehood, Very difficult for an ignorant person to be able to Distinguish between truth and falsehood. Here is the truth for your benefit and other read-only participants

There is no worship of the moon or stars or Stones, there is no veneration of the black stone, or the Ka'aba, We have the Quran (words of ALLAH) and there is absolutely no conflict in the belief of the ALL THE PROPHETS OF GOD INCLUDING JESUS< HEAR YE O ISRAEL YOUR LORD GOD IS ONE, AND MUHAMMAD, not Just for ISrael BUT FOR THE ENTIRE HUMANITY< LAA IELAA HA ILL _ALLAH  THERE IS NO GOD BUT THE GOD (AL THE IELAAH GOD). WE have the tradition of the Prophet Muhammed (May Allah bestow peace and blessings on him). Included in that traditions are acts that are highly recommended (if you leave it it does not impact on your relationship with ALLAH) if you do it you have to understand why.


As you stated muslims venerate the black stone, I want to make it very clear from your quote of the Hadith that says that no muslim does it (if he chooses, there is no sin if he does not) because of the stone we do it out of respect (not worship) for the Prophet of ALLAH. YOU STATED THE TRUTH NOW ACCEPT IT.

YOUR LIES AND DECEPTION IS OBVIOUS< YOU STATE THE TRUTH BUT FAIL TO GRASP IT.
Allah points out the great virtue of the Qur'an, and says that even if mankind and the Jinn were all to come together and agree to produce something like that which was revealed to His Messenger , they would never be able to do it, even if they were to cooperate and support and help one another. This is something which is impossible. How could the words of created beings be like the Words of the Creator Who has no equal and peer, for there is none like unto Him

﴿وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا لِلنَّاسِ﴾

(And indeed We have fully explained to man- kind,) meaning, `We have furnished them with evidence and defini- tive proof, and We have shown them the truth and explained it in detail, yet despite that most of mankind insist on disbelief, i.e., denying and rejecting the truth.'



 

[Peter]

Apparently English isn't your first language. I even provided a link so you wouldn't go down the same path as your black stone venerating brethren.

Venerate
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

Now scroll up to the photo above again.
Don't be too embarrassed as you have company. Roman Catholics make the same mistake.
You can answer to veneration on its own thread.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1050.15


Now since you believe Mohammed's "Allah" created the world, why do you suppose it is, that right in what Muslims believe to be the center of the world that he created, and directly below the gates of heaven where he wanted his kaaba built, it wound up being a flood plain where his sacred kaaba could be deluged with floodwater contaminated with sewage?
Simply a matter of poor planning?

[Peter]

You failed to tell us what made the black stone unique from the other 359 idols that accompanied it.
What did the Arabian pagans venerate the very same black stone idol as?

We realize that the answer that you have been indoctrinated to believe, of course, springs from 7th and 8th century penned Islamic "tradition". You actually having to believe that men in the 7th and 8th century could somehow sit down and account for thousands of years of prior history.

The real answer is Mohammed wanted to appease the pagans by being inclusive, keeping that remnant - their moon god idol - and their traditions of the Hajj and Umrah.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#tradition

[Peter]

YOUR LIES AND DECEPTION IS OBVIOUS< YOU STATE THE TRUTH BUT FAIL TO GRASP IT.
Allah points out the great virtue of the Qur'an, and says that even if mankind and the Jinn were all to come together and agree to produce something like that which was revealed to His Messenger , they would never be able to do it, even if they were to cooperate and support and help one another.

And it's understandable that some 7th century desert dwelling illiterates might have taken Mohammed at his word.
But literate folks in this 21st century information age don't have to believe such provable poppycock.

From what Islamic history reveals about the inspiration of the Quran
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

To the textual history of the Quran
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0

To the abrogation required in failed efforts to sort Mohammed's mess out
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0

To the successive Hadiths penned in efforts to create a fictional history to underpin Mohammed's rehashed Arabian and Hebrew fables
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=41.0

I highly recommend you read "Prophet of Doom" by Craig Winn. The following link is an excerpt on the Kaaba.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1130.msg4416#msg4416


"Gerd Puin, the world's leading specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur'anic paleography, studying the oldest manuscripts, speaks with disdain about the willingness of Muslims and non-Muslims alike, to accept Islamic dogma. He says: "The Qur'an claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or clear, but if you just look at it, you will see that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur'an is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur'an is not comprehensible, if it can't even be understood in Arabic, then it's not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid."

[Mujaheed]

YOUR LIES AND DECEPTION IS OBVIOUS< YOU STATE THE TRUTH BUT FAIL TO GRASP IT. Allah points out the great virtue of the Qur'an, and says that even if mankind and the Jinn were all to come together and agree to produce something like that which was revealed to His Messenger , they would never be able to do it, even if they were to cooperate and support and help one another. And it's understandable that some 7th century desert dwelling illiterates might have taken Mohammed at his word. But literate folks in this 21st century information age don't have to believe such provable poppycock.

NOT 7th Century illiterates you lying fool, there are more educated converts of all nationalities, especially American and British in the the 21st century than any other century, you seem to be the only one lagging behind, COME ON SAY IT WITH ME YOU IDIOT, ALMOST 2 BILLION AND COUNTING, Counting mainly from the literate American, and European countries.

From what Islamic history reveals about the inspiration of the Quran http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

This is obviously the opinion of an uneducated person, a feeble minded individual that has no concept or respect for his own bible. HERES A Conundrum if the Quran contains scripture why would slander your own scripture? If a Christian was teaching Muhammad he must have been a terrible teacher or Christian or the word of GOD HAS NO POWER OVER THE ARABS? OR OVER MUHAMMAD who mentions Jesus several Times in the QURAN, Can Jesus not hear Him, Does JESUS ONLY LOVE A SELECT FEW, I THOUGHT YOU SAID HE CAME FOR ALL NATIONS?
SOMETHING VERY WRONG WITH YOU MR PETER

To the textual history of the Quran http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0 To the abrogation required in failed efforts to sort Mohammed's mess out http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=96.0

Why would an ignorant fool even attempt to write such utter drivel? Because he does not understand who GOD is and how Scripture Works, obviously.

ONE THE QURAN IS A RECITED BOOK< RECORDING IT IS NOT FOR PRESEVATION IT WAS FOR CONSISTENCY OF RECTATION< THE WAY THE VERSES ARE CONSTRUCTED MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE> THE QURAN has 125000 witnesses, The prophets last sermon on Arafat when Sahaba were sent in every direction. There is only one QURAN from The lips of The PROPHET TO THE EARS OF THE COMPANION, IT IS RHYME AND NOT A STORY THAT CAN BE RETOLD DIFFERENTLY (WHATS MY POINT IS THAT IF ANY OF YOUR CRITIQUES GENUINELY KNEW THE QURAN THEY WOULD KNOW Y+THIS> WETHER A GOAT ATE A PORTION OF SOMETHING WRITTEN IS COMPLETELY IRRELAVANT. IT IS MERELY A WEAK HADITH< PROBABLY A FABRICATED HADITH.

To the successive Hadiths penned in efforts to create a fictional history to underpin Mohammed's rehashed Arabian and Hebrew fables http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=41.0

I am QUITE SURE THAT AN AMERICAN IGNORANT OF ARABIC CULTURE LOOKS FOR TRUTH FROM PAGAN EUROPEAN WRITERS LEARNING FROM THERE BIASED VERSION WOULD TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN ARABIA AT THE TIME OF THE PROPHET- YOPU ARROGANT FOOL

I highly recommend you read "Prophet of Doom" by Craig Winn. The following link is an excerpt on the Kaaba. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1130.msg4416#msg4416

HUGE PROBLEM WITH CRAIG WINN, NOT A SINGLE AUTHENTIC HADITH, EVERY HADITH HAS A CHAIN OF NARAATION AND I CANNOT CORRAOBARATE ANY OF HIS HADITH< I AM NOT SURE WHICH CAN BE TRUSTED< MUSLIMS ARE A LOT MORE SOPHISTICATED AND LOT LESS GULLIBLE THAN PEOPLE LIKE YOU< WE DONT BELIEVE PEOPLE WITH NO CREDIBILTY AND THAT ARE HIGHLY OPINIONATED< ALLAH WARNS US AGAINST OUR HAWA (FORMULATING OUTR OWN OPINIONS< SAYAN HAS AN OPINION TOO> AND HE HAS SEEN GOD<

"Gerd Puin, the world's leading specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur'anic paleography, studying the oldest manuscripts, speaks with disdain about the willingness of Muslims and non-Muslims alike, to accept Islamic dogma. He says: "The Qur'an claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or clear, but if you just look at it, you will see that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur'an is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur'an is not comprehensible, if it can't even be understood in Arabic, then it's not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid."

[/quote]


Gerd Puin must be extremely mentally slow, ask him to contact me, If he read the Quran before making such an ill-informed ridiculous statement, he would find that the opening lines says that this Book (The quran) has no doubt in it for those that have guided and are GOD_fearing, I can only conclude that gerd Puin does not Arabic (ignorant of the language) does not langiage of scripture (ignorant of Bible and so on) must know the language of the translation he read (weak scholar) He may appear to be educated but when t comes to GOD he seems to have absolutely no Knowledge as only a fool would make such a statement of such a masterpiece of wisdom, rhyme, mathematical precision, and the BOOK that his transformed humanity into what it is today.

[Peter]

You seem to have missed these posts. I separated them so you could address them individually.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7998#msg7998
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7999#msg7999

[Mujaheed]

You seem to have missed these posts. I separated them so you could address them individually.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7998#msg7998
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7999#msg7999

THE BLACK STONE SEEMS TO FASCINATE YOU, NEVER MIND THAT THE PROPHET PLACE IT THERE AFTER MEDIATING AND AVOIDING BLOODSHED
NEVER MIND THAT WE ONLY DO IT OUT OF RESPECT FOR THE PROPHET AND NO OTHER REASON, I HAVE NO AFFECTION or ATTACHE ANY IMPORTANCE TO IT AND AS ALL THE HADITH STATES WE ONLY DO IT BECAUSE THE PROPHET DID IT, NO YOU HAVE TO MAKE OUT LIKE IT IS SOMETHING OF A CULT WITH SINISTER INTENTIONS AND RITUALS< SORRY TO BURST YOUR BUBBLE! HERE ARE THE HADITH ON THE BLACK STONE.
Volume 2, Book 26, Number 673:

Narrated Salim that his father said:

I saw Allah's Apostle arriving at Mecca; he kissed the Black Stone Corner first while doing Tawaf and did ramal in the first three rounds of the seven rounds (of Tawaf).

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 674:

Narrated Abdullah bin Umar :

The Prophet did Ramal in (first) three rounds (of Tawaf), and walked in the remaining four, in Hajj and Umra.

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675:

Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said:

"Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, 'By Allah! I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.' Then he kissed it and said, 'There is no reason for us to do Ramal (in Tawaf) except that we wanted to show off before the pagans, and now Allah has destroyed them.' 'Umar added, '(Nevertheless), the Prophet did that and we do not want to leave it (i.e. Ramal).'

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 676:

Narrated Nafi':

Ibn 'Umar. said, "I have never missed the touching of these two stones of Ka'ba (the Black Stone and the Yemenite Corner) both in the presence and the absence of crowds, since I saw the Prophet touching them." I asked Nafi': "Did Ibn 'Umar use to walk between the two Corners?" Nafi' replied, "He used to walk in order that it might be easy for him to touch it (the Corner Stone)."

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 677:

Narrated Ibn Abbas.:

In his Last Hajj the Prophet performed Tawaf of the Ka'ba riding a camel and pointed a bent-headed stick towards the Corner (Black Stone).

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 678:

Narrated Salim bin 'Abdullah that his father said:

"I have not seen the Prophet touching except the two Yemenite Corners (i.e. the ones facing Yemen)."

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 679:

Narrated Zaid bin Aslam that his father said:

"I saw 'Umar bin Al-Khattab kissing the Black Stone and he then said, (to it) 'Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you, (stone) I would not have kissed you.' "

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 680:

Narrated Az-Zubair bin 'Arabi:

A man asked Ibn 'Umar about the touching of the Black Stone. Ibn 'Umar said, "I saw Allah's Apostle touching and kissing it." The questioner said, "But if there were a throng (much rush) round the Ka'ba and the people overpowered me, (what would I do?)" He replied angrily, "Stay in Yemen (as that man was from Yemen). I saw Allah's Apostle touching and kissing it."

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 681:

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

The Prophet performed Tawaf of the Ka'ba while riding a camel, and whenever he came in front of the Corner, he pointed towards it (with something).

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 682:

Narrated Ibn Abbas

The Prophet performed Tawaf of the Ka'ba riding a camel, and every time he came in front of the Corner (having the Black Stone), he pointed towards it with something he had with him and said Takbir.

Volume 2, Book 26, Number 683:

Narrated 'Urwa:

'Aisha said, "The first thing the Prophet did on reaching Mecca, was the ablution and then he performed Tawaf of the Ka'ba and that was not 'Umra (alone), (but Hajj-al-Qiran). 'Urwa added: Later Abu Bakr and 'Umar did the same in their Hajj." And I performed the Hajj with my father Az-Zubair, and the first thing he did was Tawaf of the Ka'ba. Later I saw the Muhajirin (Emigrants) and the Ansar doing the same. My mother (Asma') told me that she, her sister ('Aisha), Az-Zubair and such and such persons assumed Ihram for 'Umra, and after they passed their hands over the Black Stone Corner (of the Ka'ba) they finished the Ihram. (i.e. After doing Tawaf of the Ka'ba and Sa'i between Safa-Marwa.

[Peter]

Once again you failed to address the posts.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7999#msg7999

Maybe it will help to go item by item.
You yourself understand, that the very same black stone that Muslims bow toward 5 times a day, travel to and march around, was just one of 360 dumb idols, that the Quraish venerated at their kaaba.
Pagan Arabians from Mecca, and others traveled to the black stone and 359 other stone idols, and marched around the Kaaba, venerating the same black stone idol.

What changed to make that same black stone that Muslims bow toward 5 times a day, and travel to and march around, something other than the same dumb idol that pagan Arabian star family worshipers traveled to and marched around?

All you posted above are verses that suggest that you venerate it because Mohammed venerated it.
But even you know that Mohammed venerated the same black stone idol as a young man, and pagan idol worshiper, when his uncle tended the Kaaba.

So what changed the black stone, between when Mohammed venerated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed venerated the black stone as a Muslim?

[Mujaheed]

Once again you failed to address the posts.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=877.msg7999#msg7999

FIRSTLY THE ONLY ONE THAT IGNIORES POSTS IS YOU< YOU ASNWERS ALL YOUR POSTS WITH STUPID ACCUASATIONS BUT LET ME INGORM AND IGNORANT PERSON LIKE YOURSELF AND I HOPE THAT YOU ARE MATURE ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THE ANSWERS THAT FOLLOW>

Maybe it will help to go item by item.
You yourself understand, that the very same black stone that Muslims bow toward 5 times a day, travel to and march around, was just one of 360 dumb idols, that the Quraish venerated at their kaaba.
Pagan Arabians from Mecca, and others traveled to the black stone and 359 other stone idols, and marched around the Kaaba, venerating the same black stone idol.

What changed to make that same black stone that Muslims bow toward 5 times a day, and travel to and march around, something other than the same dumb idol that pagan Arabian star family worshipers traveled to and marched around?

All you posted above are verses that suggest that you venerate it because Mohammed venerated it.
But even you know that Mohammed venerated the same black stone idol as a young man, and pagan idol worshiper, when his uncle tended the Kaaba.

So what changed the black stone, between when Mohammed venerated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed venerated the black stone as a Muslim?

MUSLIMS DO  NOT VENERATE THE BLACK STONE WE FOLLOW THE SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET<
BEFORE YOU TRY YOUR SAME OLD TRICKS, I WANT TOS STATE THAT THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IGNORANCE AND GUIDANCE AND THE DIFFERENCE MY DEAR PETER IS THAT IF YOU TOLD EVERYONE THE TRUTH THEY WOULD HEAR FROM YOUR MOUTH THAT WE WORSHIP AND VENERATE THE GOD OF ABRAHAM< MOSES< DAVID AND JESUS AND MUHAMMAD< MY GOD AND YOUR GOD, NOT THE STONE SO PLEASE REMOVE YOUR LIES AS YOU ARE DEGRADING YOURSELF AND INSULTING SELF RESPECTING INFORMED BELIEVERS. KISSING THE STONE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VENERATION.

YOU ARE BEING EXTREMELY PETTY ABOUT THE KA"ABA STATING NOTHING BUT YOUR FALSE ASSUMPTIONS WITHOUT TELLING EVERYONE THE TRUTH. MUSLIMS BOW DOWN TO ALLAH (AL_THE IELAAH_GOD) AND WE DO SO AT THE KA"ABA FOR THE SAKE OF UNITY AND WHY NOT JERUSALEM THE FIRST CHOSEN PLACE OF WORSHIP BECASUE OF THE ATTITUDE OF THE JEWS TOWARDS JESUS AND THE CONJECTURE OF THE CHRISTIANS THE HOLY LAND HAS BEEN DEFILED AND CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WOULD ENSUE IF WE WERE TO BOW DOWN TO JERUSALEM, IT WOULD NOW BE THE CENTRE OF ARABIA! GOD IN HIS INFINITE MERCY AND WISDOM ALLOWS ALL FREE ACCESS ONLY ZIONISTS WOULD RESTRICT ACCESS! ONLY ZIONISTS WOULD KILL PEOPLE IN ITS PRECINCTS.

THE PRACTICES OF ALL DEVIATIONS LIKE DEIFYING HUMANS IS BASED ON AN EARLIER RELIGION AND THE DEVIATION BECOMES STRONGER OVER TIME< THE PAGAN WORSHIP IS BASED ON ORIGINAL SCRIPTURE AND IT IS PROVEN THROUGHOUT THE AGES THAT A PROPHET IS SENT TO CORRECT THE DEVIATIONS AS ABRAHAM< DAVID< SOLOMON< JESUS AND MUHAMMAD WAS SENT

DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND! OR ARE YOU GOING TO PERSIST WITH YOUR IGNORANCE?

[Mujaheed]

Deuteronomy

5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

Hebrews 13:4
Whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE:
Hosea 1:2
And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms....
Hosea 3:1
Then said the Lord unto me, God yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress.

IF YOUR VERSION OF JESUS IS TO BE BELIEVED ADULTERY SEEMS TO A GREY AREA FOR YOU.

[Peter]

What changed the black stone, between when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a Muslim?

[Mujaheed]

What changed the black stone, between when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a Muslim?

Muhammad changed the same thing JESUS TRIED TO CHANGE IN THE JEWS< BELIEF in one GOD (THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE and heaven)
BELIEF IS NOT IN THE STONE< PRAYER IS NOT OF THE STONE BUT OF ALLAH.

Ritual is not RESPECT which IS NOT TRADITION and nor is BELIEF, FAITH IS NOT OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW, but all depends from the correct worship of GOD

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAt THE ARABS NOW BELIEVED CORRECTLY, in LAA IELAAH (NO GOD) HA IEL_ALLAH (EXCEPT AL THE _ALLAH GOD) none is worthy of worship but ALLAH, ALLAH IS IN HEAVEN (SAMAA) ALLAH CREATED THE HEAVENS AND EARTH IN SIX DAYS AND ROSE UPON HIS THRONE< ALLAH IS UNIQUE, NONE IS LIKE ALLAH unlike anything we vcan imagine

ALLAH has dominion over all things and has created man in his image.

[Peter]

What changed the black stone, between when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a Muslim?

Muhammad changed the same thing JESUS TRIED TO CHANGE IN THE JEWS< BELIEF in one GOD (THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE and heaven)
BELIEF IS NOT IN THE STONE< PRAYER IS NOT OF THE STONE BUT OF ALLAH.

You profoundly misunderstand. The Quraish didn't worship the stone, or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTED their pagan deity.
Muslims don't worship the stone or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTS Mohammed's "Allah". If it didn't, you wouldn't bow toward it, or circumambulate it.

Ritual is not RESPECT which IS NOT TRADITION and nor is BELIEF, FAITH IS NOT OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW, but all depends from the correct worship of GOD

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAt THE ARABS NOW BELIEVED CORRECTLY, in LAA IELAAH (NO GOD) HA IEL_ALLAH (EXCEPT AL THE _ALLAH GOD) none is worthy of worship but ALLAH, ALLAH IS IN HEAVEN (SAMAA) ALLAH CREATED THE HEAVENS AND EARTH IN SIX DAYS AND ROSE UPON HIS THRONE< ALLAH IS UNIQUE, NONE IS LIKE ALLAH unlike anything we vcan imagine

ALLAH has dominion over all things and has created man in his image.

[Mujaheed]

What changed the black stone, between when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a pagan idol worshiper, and when Mohammed circumambulated the black stone as a Muslim?

Muhammad changed the same thing JESUS TRIED TO CHANGE IN THE JEWS< BELIEF in one GOD (THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE and heaven)
BELIEF IS NOT IN THE STONE< PRAYER IS NOT OF THE STONE BUT OF ALLAH.

You profoundly misunderstand. The Quraish didn't worship the stone, or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTED their pagan deity.
Muslims don't worship the stone or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTS Mohammed's "Allah". If it didn't, you wouldn't bow toward it, or circumambulate it.


WHERE on earth did you get that information from, not even the quraish called it their GOD, HOW CAN YOU BE SO NAIVE and gullible to believe something like that, I follow the religion of ABRAHAM, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, MOSES, aaron, David Solomon, John the baptist JESUS, and MUhammad and the Messengers of ALLAH,

I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING

I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
 LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

"He is Allah, the Creator, the Originator, The Fashioner, to Him belong the most beautiful names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, do declare His praises and glory. And He is the Exalted in Might, The Wise. (Quran 59:24)

"The most beautiful names belong to God: so call on Him by them;..." (7:180)

It is not possible to perfectly translate the names and attributes of Allah from their original Arabic into English. However, here are some fairly close explanations.

^= letter ain of arabic '= letter hamza of arabic

Allah
Allah, He who has the Godhood which is the power to create the entities.
Ar-Rahmaan
The Compassionate, The Beneficient, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers and the blasphemers in this world and especially for the believers in the hereafter.
Ar-Raheem
The Merciful, The One who has plenty of mercy for the believers.
Al-Malik
The King, The Sovereign Lord, The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.
Al-Quddoos
The Holy, The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear from children and adversaries.
As-Salaam
The Source of Peace, The One who is free from every imperfection.
Al-Mu'min
Guardian of Faith, The One who witnessed for Himself that no one is God but Him. And He witnessed for His believers that they are truthful in their belief that no one is God but Him.
Al-Muhaimin
The Protector, The One who witnesses the saying and deeds of His creatures.
Al-^Azeez
The Mighty, The Strong, The Defeater who is not defeated.
Al-Jabbaar
The Compeller, The One that nothing happens in His Dominion except that which He willed.
Al-Mutakabbir
The Majestic, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures and from resembling them.
Al-Khaaliq
The Creator, The One who brings everything from non-existence to existence.
Al-Bari'
The Evolver, The Maker, The Creator who has the Power to turn the entities.
Al-Musawwir
The Fashioner, The One who forms His creatures in different pictures.
Al-Ghaffaar
The Great Forgiver, The Forgiver, The One who forgives the sins of His slaves time and time again.
Al-Qahhaar
The Subduer, The Dominant, The One who has the perfect Power and is not unable over anything.
Al-Wahhaab
The Bestower, The One who is Generous in giving plenty without any return. He is everything that benefits whether Halal or Haram.
Al-Razzaaq
The Sustainer, The Provider.
Al-Fattaah
The Opener, The Reliever, The Judge, The One who opens for His slaves the closed worldy and religious matters.
Al-^Aleem
The All-knowing, The Knowledgeable; The One nothing is absent from His knowledge.
Al-Qaabid
The Constricter, The Retainer, The Withholder, The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdomand expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.
Al-Baasit
The Expander, The Englarger, The One who constricts the sustenance by His wisdomand expands and widens it with His Generosity and Mercy.
Al-Khaafid
The Abaser, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed by His Endowment.
Ar-Raafi^
The Exalter, The Elevator, The One who lowers whoever He willed by His Destruction and raises whoever He willed by His Endowment.
Al-Mu^iz
The Honorer, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem.
Al-Muthil
The Dishonorer, The Humiliator, He gives esteem to whoever He willed, hence there is no one to degrade Him; And He degrades whoever He willed, hence there is no one to give Him esteem.
As-Samee^
The All-Hearing, The Hearer, The One who Hears all things that are heard by His Eternal Hearing without an ear, instrument or organ.
Al-Baseer
The All-Seeing, The One who Sees all things that are seen by His Eternal Seeing without a pupil or any other instrument.
Al-Hakam
The Judge, He is the Ruler and His judgment is His Word.
Al-^Adl
The Just, The One who is entitled to do what He does.
Al-Lateef
The Subtle One, The Gracious, The One who is kind to His slaves and endows upon them.
Al-Khabeer
The Aware, The One who knows the truth of things.
Al-Haleem
The Forebearing, The Clement, The One who delays the punishment for those who deserve it and then He might forgive them.
Al-^Azeem
The Great One, The Mighty, The One deserving the attributes of Exaltment, Glory, Extolement,and Purity from all imperfection.
Al-Ghafoor
The All-Forgiving, The Forgiving, The One who forgives a lot.
Ash-Shakoor
The Grateful, The Appreciative, The One who gives a lot of reward for a little obedience.
Al-^Aliyy
The Most High, The Sublime, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures.
Al-Kabeer
The Most Great, The Great, The One who is greater than everything in status.
Al-Hafeez
The Preserver, The Protector, The One who protects whatever and whoever He willed to protect.
Al-Muqeet
The Maintainer, The Guardian, The Feeder, The Sustainer, The One who has the Power.
Al-Haseeb
The Reckoner, The One who gives the satisfaction.
Aj-Jaleel
The Sublime One, The Beneficent, The One who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.
Al-Kareem
The Generous One, The Bountiful, The Gracious, The One who is attributed with greatness of Power and Glory of status.
Ar-Raqeeb
The Watcher, The Watchful, The One that nothing is absent from Him. Hence it's meaning is related to the attribute of Knowledge.
Al-Mujeeb
The Responsive, The Hearkener, The One who answers the one in need if he asks Him and rescues the yearner if he calls upon Him.
Al-Wasi^
The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Knowledgeable.
Al-Hakeem
The Wise, The Judge of Judges, The One who is correct in His doings.
Al-Wadood
The Loving, The One who loves His believing slaves and His believing slaves love Him. His love to His slaves is His Will to be merciful to them and praise them:Hence it's meaning is related to the attributes of the Will and Kalam (His attribute with which He orders and forbids and spoke to Muhammad and Musa -peace be upon them- . It is not a sound nor a language nor a letter.).
Al-Majeed
The Most Glorious One, The Glorious, The One who is with perfect Power, High Status, Compassion, Generosity and Kindness.
Al-Ba^ith
The Reserrector, The Raiser (from death), The One who resurrects His slaves after death for reward and/or punishment.
Ash-Shaheed
The Witness, The One who nothing is absent from Him.
Al-Haqq
The Truth, The True, The One who truly exists.
Al-Wakeel
The Trustee, The One who gives the satisfaction and is relied upon.
Al-Qawiyy
The Most Strong, The Strong, The One with the complete Power.
Al-Mateen
The Firm One, The One with extreme Power which is un-interrupted and He does not get tired.
Al-Waliyy
The Protecting Friend, The Supporter.
Al-Hameed
The Praiseworthy, The praised One who deserves to be praised.
Al-Muhsee
The Counter, The Reckoner, The One who the count of things are known to him.
Al-Mubdi'
The Originator, The One who started the human being. That is, He created him.
Al-Mu^eed
The Reproducer, The One who brings back the creatures after death.
Al-Muhyi
The Restorer, The Giver of Life, The One who took out a living human from semen that does not have a soul. He gives life by giving the souls back to the worn out bodies on the resurrection day and He makes the hearts alive by the light of knowledge.
Al-Mumeet
The Creator of Death, The Destroyer, The One who renders the living dead.
Al-Hayy
The Alive, The One attributed with a life that is unlike our life and is not that of a combination of soul, flesh or blood.
Al-Qayyoom
The Self-Subsisting, The One who remains and does not end.
Al-Waajid
The Perceiver, The Finder, The Rich who is never poor. Al-Wajd is Richness.
Al-Waahid
The Unique, The One, The One without a partner.
Al-Ahad
The One.
As-Samad
The Eternal, The Independent, The Master who is relied upon in matters and reverted to in ones needs.
Al-Qaadir
The Able, The Capable, The One attributed with Power.
Al-Muqtadir
The Powerful, The Dominant, The One with the perfect Power that nothing is withheld from Him.
Al-Muqaddim
The Expediter, The Promoter, The One who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.
Al-Mu'akh-khir
The Delayer, the Retarder, The One who puts things in their right places. He makes ahead what He wills and delays what He wills.
Al-'Awwal
The First, The One whose Existence is without a beginning.
Al-'Akhir
The Last, The One whose Existence is without an end.
Az-Zaahir
The Manifest, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.
Al-Baatin
The Hidden, The One that nothing is above Him and nothing is underneath Him, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.
Al-Walee
The Governor, The One who owns things and manages them.
Al-Muta^ali
The Most Exalted, The High Exalted, The One who is clear from the attributes of the creation.
Al-Barr
The Source of All Goodness, The Righteous, The One who is kind to His creatures, who covered them with His sustenance and specified whoever He willed among them by His support, protection, and special mercy.
At-Tawwaab
The Acceptor of Repentance, The Relenting, The One who grants repentance to whoever He willed among His creatures and accepts his repentance.
Al-Muntaqim
The Avenger, The One who victoriously prevails over His enemies and punishes them for their sins. It may mean the One who destroys them.
Al-^Afuww
The Pardoner, The Forgiver, The One with wide forgiveness.
Ar-Ra'uf
The Compassionate, The One with extreme Mercy. The Mercy of Allah is His will to endow upon whoever He willed among His creatures.
Malik Al-Mulk
The Eternal Owner of Sovereignty, The One who controls the Dominion and gives dominion to whoever He willed.
Thul-Jalali wal-Ikram
The Lord of Majesty and Bounty, The One who deserves to be Exalted and not denied.
Al-Muqsit
The Equitable, The One who is Just in His judgment.
Aj-Jaami^
The Gatherer, The One who gathers the creatures on a day that there is no doubt about, that is the Day of Judgment.
Al-Ghaniyy
The Self-Sufficient, The One who does not need the creation.
Al-Mughni
The Enricher, The One who satisfies the necessities of the creatures.
Al-Maani^
The Preventer, The Withholder.
Ad-Daarr
The Distresser, The One who makes harm reach to whoever He willed and benefit to whoever He willed.
An-Nafi^
The Propitious, The One who makes harm reach to whoever He willed and benefit to whoever He willed.
An-Noor
The Light, The One who guides.
Al-Haadi
The Guide, The One whom with His Guidance His belivers were guided, and with His Guidance the living beings have been guided to what is beneficial for them and protected from what is harmful to them.
Al-Badi^
The Incomparable, The One who created the creation and formed it without any preceding example.
Al-Baaqi
The Everlasting, The One that the state of non-existence is impossible for Him.
Al-Waarith
The Supreme Inheritor, The Heir, The One whose Existence remains.
Ar-Rasheed
The Guide to the Right Path, The One who guides.
As-Saboor
The Patient, The One who does not quickly punish the sinners.


"...There is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).    Qur'an [42:11]
(Arabic transliteration: Laysa Kamithlihi Shayun Wa Huwa As-Sami' ul-Basir)

NOTE:
I found many different versions of the 99 names. The above 99 are on a poster I have. Another list includes Al-Mu'tiy - The Bestower, The Giver and does not have Al-Ahad - The One. Another list did not have Al-Razzaaq -The Sustainer, The Provider but did have Al-Maajid The Noble, The One who is Majid.
Allah (subhanahu wa ta`ala)'s names are not limited to 99, which is a common misconception. There are a couple of evidences, one is the du`aa where one calls upon Allah by the names He (subhanahu wa ta`ala) has kept to Himself (obviously not taking these names since Allah has not revealed them to us); another is the fact that in the narrations of the famous ninety nine names hadith that do contain 99 names, the names are not consistent between narrations (for example, imam al-bayhaqi reports two versions of this hadith, with different 99 names in each). It is suggested by one commentator that the names were not explicitly stated by the rasul (sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam).

[Peter]

You profoundly misunderstand. The Quraish didn't worship the stone, or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTED their pagan deity.
Muslims don't worship the stone or believe in the stone.
The stone REPRESENTS Mohammed's "Allah". If it didn't, you wouldn't bow toward it, or circumambulate it.

WHERE on earth did you get that information from, not even the quraish called it their GOD,....

That's the same thing I said. Read it again.

LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

(Why don't you quit spamming up our chat with large volumes of unrelated material? I already know who "Allah" is. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0 )

[Peter]

I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING

I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
 LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol.

[Mujaheed]

I am not reading these books to prove them wrong or become a skilled debater, I am here to set the record straight regarding the Prophets of ALLAH (AL-the Ielaah-GOD).

The prophets of God's 1600 year record proclaim Jesus' sacrifice for us through both Old Testament prophesy and fulfillment of that prophecy hundreds of years later.
In the Old Testament book of Psalms we find Jesus' crucifixion prophesied:

Old Testament
Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Fulfilled:

New Testament
Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

WHO IS HIM? WHY NOT STATE YASHUA WHY BE SO VAGUE AS HIM COULD MEAN A LIKENESS TO JESUS CAN IT NOT?

We find another reference in Old Testament prophecy of Jesus' second coming:

Old Testament
Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

AGAIN NO MENTION OF JESUS, SO YOU ASSUMING IT MEANS JESUS AND NOT A LIKENESS, TELL ME WHEN DID THE LORD DEFEND THE INHABITANTS AND WHAT DOES IT REFER TO?

And perhaps for faithful, yet still soverignly blinded Jews...

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

MOURN FOR WHOM? SOMEONE THAT IS ALIVE IN HEAVEN AND THAT COME AGAIN OR SOMEONE THAT HAS DIED? ONLY STAN IS MOURNING HIS LOSS OF HIS POSITION!

New Testament reference
John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

More here.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1007.0

Yet even though the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was prophesied, so many hundreds of years in advance, by the very prophets you pretend to proclaim, you reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ, to follow Mohammed.
You reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ because of the "faith" Mohammed filled you with in what to DISbelieve.

So if not the Messiah, as both the secular and scriptural historical records attest from many hundreds of years before Mohammed, then who DID die on the cross?

[Peter]

I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING

I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
 LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.

[Mujaheed]

I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING

I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
 LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.

FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.

PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.

[Peter]

I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING

I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
 LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.

FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.

PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.

Of course I wouldn't do it at the Kaaba or another riot would likely ensue, and another 402 "pilgrims" might be killed and another 649 of Mohammed's satan-filled madcap followers wounded - by each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Mecca_Massacre#Demonstrations

I'm a part time farmer as well as other business that takes me outdoors. Sometimes my activities take me to places where toilets are not readily available. Peeing outdoors isn't unusual for men that get outdoors - even a little. Sometimes when I am outdoors I pee on rocks or gravel. Maybe you were raised to be like a girl.

So why don't you stop avoiding the subject, pretending my point was in regard to etiquette at the pagan's Kaaba. Perhaps rephrasing the question, to avoid another child-like exegesis of my point, will help put you back on track.

If I were outdoors, and out of everyone's sight, and I had to pee, and the Quraish black stone idol were right there on the ground in front of me, and I knew it was the Quraish black stone idol, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish black stone idol any more than I would any other stone that was in front of me.

How about you?

[Mujaheed]

I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING

I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
 LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.

FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.

PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.

Of course I wouldn't do it at the Kaaba or another riot would likely ensue, and another 402 "pilgrims" might be killed and another 649 of Mohammed's satan-filled madcap followers wounded - by each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Mecca_Massacre#Demonstrations

I'm a part time farmer as well as other business that takes me outdoors. Sometimes my activities take me to places where toilets are not readily available. Peeing outdoors isn't unusual for men that get outdoors - even a little. Sometimes when I am outdoors I pee on rocks or gravel. Maybe you were raised to be like a girl.

So why don't you stop avoiding the subject, pretending my point was in regard to etiquette at the pagan's Kaaba. Perhaps rephrasing the question, to avoid another child-like exegesis of my point, will help put you back on track.

If I were outdoors, and out of everyone's sight, and I had to pee, and the Quraish black stone idol were right there on the ground in front of me, and I knew it was the Quraish black stone idol, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish black stone idol any more than I would any other stone that was in front of me.

How about you?

AGAIN ARE YOU JUST SO USED TO BEING ABSURD THAT ALL DECENCY ESCAPES YOU?

WOULD PEE ON MAN MADE IMAGE (A PICTURE) OF JESUS (WE KNOW ITS A SKETCH AND A PIECE OF PAPER AND NOT REALLY JESUS)

[Peter]

I HAVE READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STORIES OF THE PROPHETS AND THE LIFE OF JESUS IN DETAIL AND HAVE BEEN A MUSLIM FOR ALL MY LIFE AND NEVER DID I TAKE NOTE OF THE BLACK STONE OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM SAY< OR REFER TO THE BLACKS STONE AS AN OBJECT OF REVERENCE NOR DID I EVER THINK OF IT OR HEAR ANY MUSLIM LECTURE OR READ ANYTHING YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT IT. PLEASE STOP YOUR CONFOUNDING IGNORANCE!!! IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR SPIRITUAL WELL_BEING

I AM SADDENED BY THE LEVEL OF YOUR IGNORANCE AND I AM SHOCKED AT THE STATE OF MIND YOU ARE IN,
 LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO ALLAH

So from what you are saying I can conclude that you, like me, wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish's black stone idol?
Simple yes or no will do.

FIRSTLY THERE IS NO YES OR NO TO ABSURDITY, ARE YOU MAD? OR HAS YOUR LEVEL OF IGNORANCE COMPELLED YOU TO BE SO RUDE AS TO BRING UP SUCH A ABHORRENT ACT, OH I FORGOT WHO I AM DEALING WITH.

PEE IN PUBLIC? INDICATED THAT HAVE NO SHAME, AT THE KA"ABA INDICATES YOUR COMPLETE LACK OF ETTIQUETTE AND AS FAR AS YES OR NO GOES YOU COMPEL ME TO SAY NO I WOULD NOT DO SUCH A FITHY ACT IN PUBLIC< WOULD YOU YES OR NO ANSWER ONLY.

Of course I wouldn't do it at the Kaaba or another riot would likely ensue, and another 402 "pilgrims" might be killed and another 649 of Mohammed's satan-filled madcap followers wounded - by each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Mecca_Massacre#Demonstrations

I'm a part time farmer as well as other business that takes me outdoors. Sometimes my activities take me to places where toilets are not readily available. Peeing outdoors isn't unusual for men that get outdoors - even a little. Sometimes when I am outdoors I pee on rocks or gravel. Maybe you were raised to be like a girl.

So why don't you stop avoiding the subject, pretending my point was in regard to etiquette at the pagan's Kaaba. Perhaps rephrasing the question, to avoid another child-like exegesis of my point, will help put you back on track.

If I were outdoors, and out of everyone's sight, and I had to pee, and the Quraish black stone idol were right there on the ground in front of me, and I knew it was the Quraish black stone idol, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to pee on the Quraish black stone idol any more than I would any other stone that was in front of me.

How about you?

AGAIN ARE YOU JUST SO USED TO BEING ABSURD THAT ALL DECENCY ESCAPES YOU?

WOULD PEE ON MAN MADE IMAGE (A PICTURE) OF JESUS (WE KNOW ITS A SKETCH AND A PIECE OF PAPER AND NOT REALLY JESUS)

The reason you refuse to answer the question is because you know you lied about Mohammed's followers reverence for the Quraish black stone idol.
So for the benefit of those Muslim read-only participants spectating your nonsense, and seeking the truth, let's exegete the term "venerate".

Venerate
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference

The picture of the poor satanically consumed, Quraish black stone idol kisser below, belies Mujaheed's foolish declarations quoted above. The poor fellow in the photo spent a pile of money traveling to Mecca (that could have otherwise fed poor people, like those that Muslims are murdering in Africa), in order to march around the kaaba 7 times, just as the pagan moon god worshipers did before Mohammed, back when Mohammed's occult practicing uncle ran the show.

2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) ..............

The term "relic" perfectly describes the Quraish black stone idol.

with a ritual act ......

It would the height of ignorance, for any Muslim to deny they participate in a ritual act, since it is the 5th pillar of Islam. The Hajj is obligatory for Muslims.
Even Roman Catholics aren't REQUIRED to venerate their objects.

Muslims are required to participate in the same ritual act of circumambulation of the Kaaba, that Mohammed adopted, and then adapted to Islam, to keep the pagans in his game.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#tawaf

The same pagan Arabian jinn-demon worshiping ritual act of the Sa'ee as well - that is, running back and forth between Safa and Marwah 7 times.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

....... of devotion

And just as you yourself said Mohammed's followers kiss the stone because Mohammed did.
Purely as a display of devotion to the false prophet Mohammed.

You're not fooling anybody here, my friend.